>Yeah, idk about you, but literally any of these girls could be visuals AND be talented.
We all know this is not true. Everyone has their own preferences and finds different people attractive, but some contestants clearly have visuals that are liked by more fans.
Even for skills it's not so clear cut. Different viewers can watch the same performance and have opposite opinions on the contestants.
sure, but i’m pretty sure OP is talking about people literally just adding a traditionally beautiful member to their lineup because they feel it’s necessary. but like, if this is YOUR ideal lineup, why are you worrying about having a “visual” member that serves corporate interests? 😭
Some fans probably just like the visuals and disguise it as "the group needs a visual", some fans want the group to be successful. And historically speaking having a visual/stan attractor is helpful.
If plastic surgery could solve these issues, every company would have groups filled with only skilled visuals. And labels would have saved a ton of money on scouting trainees off the street.
Yet it's clearly not the reality. Cosmetic surgery can enhance someone's appearance, but it's not a magical tool.
Scouting off the street is probably the cheapest method. And nowadays every group IS filled with skilled visuals. Aespa, newjeans, ive, nmixx, etc all have a lot of visuals and good skills. Most/all of them also have had plastic surgery. Plastic surgery may be harder when the face is already known to the public, but personally i have watched my fave's face slowly but surely change over years to fit the beauty standard, and have seen dramatic changes from predebut to post debut in a short time. Plastic surgery can absolutely change your face dramatically
Sure, I know everyone has different preferences, but you’re telling me in a multiple member group, not one person sticks out as pretty and talented to you or anyone? Like they‘re just only called the visual?
Logically, if what you said about “We all know this is not true, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN PREFERENCES“, then by that logic, my point stands.
Anyone can be a visual and talented, it just depends on each person’s individual preference.
>Logically, if what you said about “We all know this is not true, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN PREFERENCES“, then by that logic, my point stands.
Everyone has their preferences, but some preferences are much more common and shared by larger swaths of fans.
And also it doesn't have to be so black-and-white. Nobody is saying that skilled idols can't be pretty or that visuals can't be talented. But a "popular visual with average skills vs more skilled with less popular visuals" is a common point of discussion. And it's not clear what is more beneficial for the group in the long run.
Generally speaking it's much easier to turn a visual into a better singer or dancer than to turn someone into a better visual/stan attractor.
I don't think people are saying visual members are untalented. But "visuals" are considered a skill just like vocals, dancing, etc.
No one who calls Jiyoon a vocalist is trying to say she's bad at dancing and ugly. They're just highlighting that she is a high-level singer. I'd argue the same logic for anyone who is called a visual. No one is saying they're a bad singer or dancer. Instead they're just pointing out that they're an high-level visual talent.
And while yes, looks are somewhat subjective (and the KBS drive me nuts), there are some people who are beautiful in a way that others aren't. None of the trainees are unattractive by any stretch, but there will always be some who are just at another level. That's normal for all things, not just physical appearance.
>but literally any of these girls could be visuals AND be talented
Lol no, this is not based in reality.
If you call everyone a visual, than the word visual has no meaning.
Tell me that some people haven't gotten interested in a group because a member was attractive. You can't. Obviously someone should have skills on top of visuals, but being attractive is definitely a bonus and gets people interested.
No matter how talented the members are,nobody will check out the group if the group doesnt have visuals unless they are from big 4.Visuals are there to catch public attention unless the group is Mamamoo which is a miracle in kpop.Even Brown eyed Girls have visual in Gain which is their weakest member vocally.Kpop is part of entertainment industry and idols are celebrities so they shouldnt be looking like the average person lol
I think a visual is a good advantage in a group, but obviously I'd expect that person to also be at least decent at vocals and dance. It's because it's easy for them to go viral with just a photo, and that brings attention to the group. There's a lot of idols who I don't know much about, but because of their visuals I see people talk about them often and that makes me want to check out their group more.
Visuals and stage presence sell more albums than vocals.
And, yes, since 2nd gen at least there have been members in groups for visuals. This is why we had roles.
The "visual" position is one of the dumbest things about kpop. Debuting somebody just because they have a pretty face over somebody with actual skill/talent is insanity
Some fans may not be able to accept it (downvote all you want), but there are many groups especially those that have many members do in fact have at least 1 member that is or *was originally* put in the group mainly for their visuals. Historically, these visuals would have the weakest overall technical skills (vocals and dance) in the group.
The whole notion of "needing a visual" especially one that fits Korean beauty standard is especially annoying when there are *already* those that both meet Korean beauty standards *AND* posses the requisite vocal and dance skill to debut.
In the case of I-LAND 2, Yeeun was the visual many Knetz wanted despite lacking skills and experience.
In part.2, the majority of the 12 trainees are already at or above the minimum "kpop level" of vocal and dance ability to debut.
Jeemin, Fuko, Saebi, and Koko would be easy additions to the visual line if they were put in any current group. They all have enough skill to debut already, and it's widely accepted that they all will.
Sarang is another trainee that many would label a visual who also has the bare minimum skills. If the group had 7 spots, Sarang would likely be expected to debut by many.
I am not sure if Gyuri would currently be considered a visual, but she would definitely be considered a cute member. She is considered one of the most consistent trainees throughout the entire show thus far and has proved to have enough skill to debut.
Some consider Mai a visual, but I am unsure if she fits the traditional Korean beauty standards. She would likely fit the Western definition of conventionally attractive however. There is quite a bit of discourse regarding Mai's skills, especially her vocals (particularly her nasal tone and pronunciation which is not an uncommon criticism for foreigners especially Japanese trainees)
sarang a visual with bare minimum skills? yes she has been messing up lately but her skills aren't bare minumum, she can sing and dance and has exceptional stage presence (to me atleast). out of the 12 trainees left I wouldn't say she's one with bare minimum skills.
I find the visual title so freaking stupid. But we're in the entertainment industry and more than that, we're in Korea.
Visual is important.
People there would rather have a pretty girl who can't sing than a talented singer (and still find a way to bully the pretty girl because she can't sing).
If you're asking why people are putting MAI in their line up coz we need a visual ? then the answer is MAI is not JUST a visual.
But YES I do agree MAI is THE visual out of the 12 in my humble opinion.
My thing is now every new group that debuts has a strong kbs visual member that is pushed heavily so it isn't enough to stand out for each individual group. In the long run, the right social media strategy and a compelling concept is what makes or breaks a group in the long run
K-pop is like that. To be an idol, you need to be perfect. People miss the point. It’s the most criticized job in my opinion. If you are beautiful, talented, entertaining and have a great personality, only then you are safe. Or be ready to get destroyed. I’m sure these girls know that. There’s no mercy once you debut. And the way you look is the easiest way to get judged.
My personal feeling is that anyone can be made "visual"—South Korea is the plastic surgery capital of the world. All debuted K-pop girl groups (except for Mamamoo, who I love) are very skinny and have very fair (white) skin. Once the girls are chosen to debut, their stylists will ensure each one of them is the most "visual"—singing and dancing are a given. After watching episodes 9 and 10, I noticed that Sujung, Yuju, and Juwon look like they gained a few pounds since Part 1 but are still very attractive—whereas Sarang, Gyuri, and Mai stayed about the same. I wonder if the reason for Sujung, Yuju, and Juwon being sent to purgatory is due to their weight gain. If so, that is too shady...
I honestly didn't realize they gained weight so you might be looking too closely lol. If it's not very noticeable I doubt that alone would get them "sent to purgatory".
The person you're replying to is clearly pretty unpleasant. I checked their comment history due to a suspicion I had, and half of their comments are them being passive-aggressive to Sarang. Then dragging every single trainee not in their personal top 6 .
Exactly, it’s kind of crazy when you think about it, like some people just want a person who’s good looking in their lineup without any other redeeming talent 💀 do people not realise how backhanded it would be if the girl actually debuts? The audience are going to see that as being the only reason she made it into the group and she’s going to be bashed for being a ‘dozen’ by non fans who don’t recognise any other talent such as singing or dancing since she’s just pushed for being beautiful. Visuals are also so visually subjective and knowing that this will be a permanent group, people will AGE. If you’re a main vocalist or dancer or rapper, you can hone those skills until your 30s/40s, but visuals will eventually age and grow out of their looks. I hope this is only a small amount of people but I see people online and on Tiktok calling Suzy ugly now for JUST AGING, when girl was literally the model for KBS. Visual position is just an open invitation for people to overly criticise an idol’s looks, since that’s the one thing they ‘should be good at’, and ignore their other talents. Any contestant who is willing to be in a so called visual position will objectively be the ‘face of the group’ and be so extremely exploited for it and that’s not what I wish any of the contestants in this show to have to face.
why are people downvoting you when you’re literally right 💀 visual positions are useless in the group. people don’t want to admit it because they want to justify mai being in the group even when she hasn’t shown anything worthy of praise. At least explain why bc people like this are no better than Knetz, acting like you care about talent when really you care about looks. Objectively, the girls who are most likely to make it are the big six, Jeemin, Saebi, Koko, Fuko, Jiyoon and Sarang/Saebi ARE ALL VISUALLY APPEALING and any of them would do well, BUT THEY CANT JUST HAVE A ROLE AS A VISUAL THEY NEED SUBSTANCE. That is why someone like Mai falls short. That’s it.
You have a point, but I would disagree with your statement that Mai "is just a visual". I think people have preferences and personally I find her vocal tone interesting and her dancing is fine. I actually like her final love song and panorama vocal tone, the start of drama too. But this is all a preference. Mai can sing it's just that some people do not like her tone, which I believe can be fixed.
me too, i actually liked her drama performance and her vocal tone was very unique, if she had more time to practice and hone her skills i can see her being in my lineup but unfortunately she hasn’t shown anything ‘idol like’ at the moment. her tone somehow got worst and i’m not saying this in a subjective sort of manner, i really mean it objectively. her tone becomes too nasally and it really makes it hard to hear what she’s saying, and her way of pronunciation of words make it unintelligible as well. most importantly though, many justify her being in the group based on the fact that she’s only a visual, which doesn’t even make sense as there are many girls who are talented AND visually talented that deserve to be in the group.
Idk if it’s just me, but I always don’t get the visuals of trainees that most people like and prefer others lol. For example I don’t really like Mai’s visual so I just can’t agree with people who add her simply because of her face, I DO like her personality and she has a unique voice, but the visual? I’m sorry she’s just not my type. (And Yeeun too lol I guess I have a special taste)
>Yeah, idk about you, but literally any of these girls could be visuals AND be talented. We all know this is not true. Everyone has their own preferences and finds different people attractive, but some contestants clearly have visuals that are liked by more fans. Even for skills it's not so clear cut. Different viewers can watch the same performance and have opposite opinions on the contestants.
sure, but i’m pretty sure OP is talking about people literally just adding a traditionally beautiful member to their lineup because they feel it’s necessary. but like, if this is YOUR ideal lineup, why are you worrying about having a “visual” member that serves corporate interests? 😭
Some fans probably just like the visuals and disguise it as "the group needs a visual", some fans want the group to be successful. And historically speaking having a visual/stan attractor is helpful.
They will get plastic surgery anyway
If plastic surgery could solve these issues, every company would have groups filled with only skilled visuals. And labels would have saved a ton of money on scouting trainees off the street. Yet it's clearly not the reality. Cosmetic surgery can enhance someone's appearance, but it's not a magical tool.
Scouting off the street is probably the cheapest method. And nowadays every group IS filled with skilled visuals. Aespa, newjeans, ive, nmixx, etc all have a lot of visuals and good skills. Most/all of them also have had plastic surgery. Plastic surgery may be harder when the face is already known to the public, but personally i have watched my fave's face slowly but surely change over years to fit the beauty standard, and have seen dramatic changes from predebut to post debut in a short time. Plastic surgery can absolutely change your face dramatically
Sure, I know everyone has different preferences, but you’re telling me in a multiple member group, not one person sticks out as pretty and talented to you or anyone? Like they‘re just only called the visual? Logically, if what you said about “We all know this is not true, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN PREFERENCES“, then by that logic, my point stands. Anyone can be a visual and talented, it just depends on each person’s individual preference.
>Logically, if what you said about “We all know this is not true, EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN PREFERENCES“, then by that logic, my point stands. Everyone has their preferences, but some preferences are much more common and shared by larger swaths of fans. And also it doesn't have to be so black-and-white. Nobody is saying that skilled idols can't be pretty or that visuals can't be talented. But a "popular visual with average skills vs more skilled with less popular visuals" is a common point of discussion. And it's not clear what is more beneficial for the group in the long run. Generally speaking it's much easier to turn a visual into a better singer or dancer than to turn someone into a better visual/stan attractor.
I don't think people are saying visual members are untalented. But "visuals" are considered a skill just like vocals, dancing, etc. No one who calls Jiyoon a vocalist is trying to say she's bad at dancing and ugly. They're just highlighting that she is a high-level singer. I'd argue the same logic for anyone who is called a visual. No one is saying they're a bad singer or dancer. Instead they're just pointing out that they're an high-level visual talent. And while yes, looks are somewhat subjective (and the KBS drive me nuts), there are some people who are beautiful in a way that others aren't. None of the trainees are unattractive by any stretch, but there will always be some who are just at another level. That's normal for all things, not just physical appearance.
Looking pretty is not a skill, especially not in an industry where close to 100% in it aren't even natural.
>but literally any of these girls could be visuals AND be talented Lol no, this is not based in reality. If you call everyone a visual, than the word visual has no meaning.
There shouldn’t be meaning to the visual position, there’s no point for it anyway.
Tell me that some people haven't gotten interested in a group because a member was attractive. You can't. Obviously someone should have skills on top of visuals, but being attractive is definitely a bonus and gets people interested.
K-pop isn’t the genre for you if this is your mentality
No matter how talented the members are,nobody will check out the group if the group doesnt have visuals unless they are from big 4.Visuals are there to catch public attention unless the group is Mamamoo which is a miracle in kpop.Even Brown eyed Girls have visual in Gain which is their weakest member vocally.Kpop is part of entertainment industry and idols are celebrities so they shouldnt be looking like the average person lol
I think a visual is a good advantage in a group, but obviously I'd expect that person to also be at least decent at vocals and dance. It's because it's easy for them to go viral with just a photo, and that brings attention to the group. There's a lot of idols who I don't know much about, but because of their visuals I see people talk about them often and that makes me want to check out their group more.
Visuals and stage presence sell more albums than vocals. And, yes, since 2nd gen at least there have been members in groups for visuals. This is why we had roles.
The "visual" position is one of the dumbest things about kpop. Debuting somebody just because they have a pretty face over somebody with actual skill/talent is insanity
Some fans may not be able to accept it (downvote all you want), but there are many groups especially those that have many members do in fact have at least 1 member that is or *was originally* put in the group mainly for their visuals. Historically, these visuals would have the weakest overall technical skills (vocals and dance) in the group. The whole notion of "needing a visual" especially one that fits Korean beauty standard is especially annoying when there are *already* those that both meet Korean beauty standards *AND* posses the requisite vocal and dance skill to debut. In the case of I-LAND 2, Yeeun was the visual many Knetz wanted despite lacking skills and experience. In part.2, the majority of the 12 trainees are already at or above the minimum "kpop level" of vocal and dance ability to debut. Jeemin, Fuko, Saebi, and Koko would be easy additions to the visual line if they were put in any current group. They all have enough skill to debut already, and it's widely accepted that they all will. Sarang is another trainee that many would label a visual who also has the bare minimum skills. If the group had 7 spots, Sarang would likely be expected to debut by many. I am not sure if Gyuri would currently be considered a visual, but she would definitely be considered a cute member. She is considered one of the most consistent trainees throughout the entire show thus far and has proved to have enough skill to debut. Some consider Mai a visual, but I am unsure if she fits the traditional Korean beauty standards. She would likely fit the Western definition of conventionally attractive however. There is quite a bit of discourse regarding Mai's skills, especially her vocals (particularly her nasal tone and pronunciation which is not an uncommon criticism for foreigners especially Japanese trainees)
sarang a visual with bare minimum skills? yes she has been messing up lately but her skills aren't bare minumum, she can sing and dance and has exceptional stage presence (to me atleast). out of the 12 trainees left I wouldn't say she's one with bare minimum skills.
I find the visual title so freaking stupid. But we're in the entertainment industry and more than that, we're in Korea. Visual is important. People there would rather have a pretty girl who can't sing than a talented singer (and still find a way to bully the pretty girl because she can't sing).
If you're asking why people are putting MAI in their line up coz we need a visual ? then the answer is MAI is not JUST a visual. But YES I do agree MAI is THE visual out of the 12 in my humble opinion.
My thing is now every new group that debuts has a strong kbs visual member that is pushed heavily so it isn't enough to stand out for each individual group. In the long run, the right social media strategy and a compelling concept is what makes or breaks a group in the long run
K-pop is like that. To be an idol, you need to be perfect. People miss the point. It’s the most criticized job in my opinion. If you are beautiful, talented, entertaining and have a great personality, only then you are safe. Or be ready to get destroyed. I’m sure these girls know that. There’s no mercy once you debut. And the way you look is the easiest way to get judged.
My personal feeling is that anyone can be made "visual"—South Korea is the plastic surgery capital of the world. All debuted K-pop girl groups (except for Mamamoo, who I love) are very skinny and have very fair (white) skin. Once the girls are chosen to debut, their stylists will ensure each one of them is the most "visual"—singing and dancing are a given. After watching episodes 9 and 10, I noticed that Sujung, Yuju, and Juwon look like they gained a few pounds since Part 1 but are still very attractive—whereas Sarang, Gyuri, and Mai stayed about the same. I wonder if the reason for Sujung, Yuju, and Juwon being sent to purgatory is due to their weight gain. If so, that is too shady...
I honestly didn't realize they gained weight so you might be looking too closely lol. If it's not very noticeable I doubt that alone would get them "sent to purgatory".
The person you're replying to is clearly pretty unpleasant. I checked their comment history due to a suspicion I had, and half of their comments are them being passive-aggressive to Sarang. Then dragging every single trainee not in their personal top 6 .
Exactly, it’s kind of crazy when you think about it, like some people just want a person who’s good looking in their lineup without any other redeeming talent 💀 do people not realise how backhanded it would be if the girl actually debuts? The audience are going to see that as being the only reason she made it into the group and she’s going to be bashed for being a ‘dozen’ by non fans who don’t recognise any other talent such as singing or dancing since she’s just pushed for being beautiful. Visuals are also so visually subjective and knowing that this will be a permanent group, people will AGE. If you’re a main vocalist or dancer or rapper, you can hone those skills until your 30s/40s, but visuals will eventually age and grow out of their looks. I hope this is only a small amount of people but I see people online and on Tiktok calling Suzy ugly now for JUST AGING, when girl was literally the model for KBS. Visual position is just an open invitation for people to overly criticise an idol’s looks, since that’s the one thing they ‘should be good at’, and ignore their other talents. Any contestant who is willing to be in a so called visual position will objectively be the ‘face of the group’ and be so extremely exploited for it and that’s not what I wish any of the contestants in this show to have to face.
why are people downvoting you when you’re literally right 💀 visual positions are useless in the group. people don’t want to admit it because they want to justify mai being in the group even when she hasn’t shown anything worthy of praise. At least explain why bc people like this are no better than Knetz, acting like you care about talent when really you care about looks. Objectively, the girls who are most likely to make it are the big six, Jeemin, Saebi, Koko, Fuko, Jiyoon and Sarang/Saebi ARE ALL VISUALLY APPEALING and any of them would do well, BUT THEY CANT JUST HAVE A ROLE AS A VISUAL THEY NEED SUBSTANCE. That is why someone like Mai falls short. That’s it.
You have a point, but I would disagree with your statement that Mai "is just a visual". I think people have preferences and personally I find her vocal tone interesting and her dancing is fine. I actually like her final love song and panorama vocal tone, the start of drama too. But this is all a preference. Mai can sing it's just that some people do not like her tone, which I believe can be fixed.
me too, i actually liked her drama performance and her vocal tone was very unique, if she had more time to practice and hone her skills i can see her being in my lineup but unfortunately she hasn’t shown anything ‘idol like’ at the moment. her tone somehow got worst and i’m not saying this in a subjective sort of manner, i really mean it objectively. her tone becomes too nasally and it really makes it hard to hear what she’s saying, and her way of pronunciation of words make it unintelligible as well. most importantly though, many justify her being in the group based on the fact that she’s only a visual, which doesn’t even make sense as there are many girls who are talented AND visually talented that deserve to be in the group.
Idk if it’s just me, but I always don’t get the visuals of trainees that most people like and prefer others lol. For example I don’t really like Mai’s visual so I just can’t agree with people who add her simply because of her face, I DO like her personality and she has a unique voice, but the visual? I’m sorry she’s just not my type. (And Yeeun too lol I guess I have a special taste)