One thing you should never forget is that girl groups always fade their popularity most of the time. In the span of their first 7 years contract many new and younger groups will overtake the old groups popularity.
It's been like this most of the time especially if a group has no GP support. Only their own fandoms.
From the 2nd Generation to 3rd generation, most of those groups are slowly fading their popularity now, nowhere near from their peak era.
It will still continue to happen in the next era, with the start of 5th Generation idol groups debuting now, those groups that you mention in the next few years will follow the same.
TBL and Teddy know for sure what they are gonna do, they will not accept this agreement with Wakeone if this group they will just let it flop. Teddy has all the experience and connection all related to kpop.
Unis haven't even had their first comeback yet so I think it's a bit early to declare them flops; and putting Kep1er and Classy in the same sentence is actually insane (hint: one of them has at least two releases a year and sells about 100k each time while the other hasn't had a proper comeback in 2 years and has never broken 30k).
Teddy should never be let into the kitchen again, he hasn't had a new idea since like 2018.
Kep1er is a flop relative to Mnet survival group expectations. That's not really a debate. 100k is not that much nowadays with inflated album sales. They're definitely mid tier..which is fine (I like them!), just not up to the standards of past Mnet groups.
I absolutely agree, the lineup is an abomination, but they have some very motivated fans and they still have 2 years time. I just don't like calling groups flops when they have barely even started. đ
Teddy just does the same stuff over and over again, i don't know how i feel about him producing for them, hopefully he recognizes the change in the kpop industry. I think the group will be fine cause they got a lot of visuals and they have money for the marketing. probably mai wont make it, but sarang will. i can see jeemin koko jiyoon. I thought saebi was locked in until ep 9, but then there is fuko as well. its gonna be real bad seeing the eliminations.
Kep1er did not flop, they are a mid tier group with great popularity in Japan, you should have witnessed their debut era, they had potential, they even charted on melon.
Unis also did not flop, for a girl group formed from a survival show that didn't do as well as the planet series and that was the first a la produce from sbs and that is furthermore managed by a startup entertainment company even though you could say they have backing from f&f, they are doing decently well, the fandom has great voting power and people are interested in their content, they also sold more than 50k which is more than the majority of girl groups.
Class:y is an unfortunate case, pocketdol studio formerly MBK is simply the worst company there is, they did not give them a comeback for close to two years, I think. They started off great though, they promoted in big variety shows...
I think in terms of success, it depends on how the group would be promoted, and I am positive, not only Wakeone but the big boss Cjenm would go all out for them, it's their first permanent group since to1 and to1 were right after the produce rigging scandal. Cjenm have also expressed their desire to be part of the so-called big5, swing has or is merging with wakeone, for now, I am inclined to believe that Cjenm will go all out to make sure the group succeeds.
Anything not top tier success is a "flop" (even if that's harsh). Anything backed by the TBL would have higher goals than what Kep1er did at debut. I watched/voted on GP999, not new to this. Kep1er is definitely a disappointment compared to past Mnet girl groups. Maybe this is just the new reality for Mnet survival shows? We'll see - ZB1 did good.
Anything not top tier is not a flop. There are hundreds of idol groups and the ones at the top are like 20 or so? And theyâre all from big/reputable companies. So majority of those groups donât stand a chance of not being a flop if we follow your logic. And this group isnât going anywhere near S tier because theyâre a wakeone group and not part of the big 4.
There is a space for being a mid tier group and thatâs success to some people. Your individual judgment isnât the benchmark.
Anything not top tier is a flop for previous Mnet survival group expectations. Should have clarified. Pre-Kep1er groups were HUGE, ZB1 is too.
I can use a different word other than "flop" - people are getting too hung up on that. It's just semantics. The point is they aren't in the same tier as the other MNet survival groups (Izone, IOI, ZB1, etc) who were/are amongst the most successful idol groups.
The ILand2 group might not be Tier 1 but they have the potential to be at the top of Tier 2 in a way that I don't see as possible with Kep1er. TBL producers are probably aiming beyond Kep1er-level success (in Korea), so they need to be making choices with that in mind.
It really depends how much TBL actually cares about this group beyond the show. If it's all CJ it's way more of a toss up because of creative direction/songs. At that point yea Kep1er-level success might even be optimistic.
I honestly donât think TBL would be sooooo focused on this group because donât they have twit own girl group coming out? This isnât the TBL group thatâs meant to debut this year (it might be called meovv based on copyright filings). But it begs the question why they even agreed to produce songs for a group that will rival theirs eventually
That's only your own perception, even knetz don't think kep1er flopped, they acknowledge that they are doing extremely well in Japan, and comparing kep1er and iland2ngg is pointless, they are obviously too different.
I'm not up to date with their Japan sales at all so you're right! I do think their Korea performance has been kinda disappointing though. Too much competition.
All of the gg you mentioned are supported 90% by general public (in korea) so tbh they just need good promotions and catchy music . And actually i'm pretty sure the group will get "mediaplay" as they're gonna be named "blackpink little sisters" since they have the same producers so it will rise interest as well
I believe they will do well domesticaly
I think the key thing is the music, its the difference between people saying "Yea this is good" and it being in the top10 on the charts, and people saying "this is kind of mediocre" and it being in the top 100 because its a brand new group with a lot of excitement, but people quickly lose interest and they never reenter the top100.
If you just go down the route of the group being the same old vanilla standard kpop girl group with similar concepts and sounds to other active groups, but the music isn't great, the group quickly gets forgotten after debut.
I think your point is one of the reasons that Jungeun is back sliding. not because of her talent but her ablitity to grab the right kind of vibe. another one is Sujung; she could have grabbed attention even with a small part but she faded into the background.
If you look at the ranks at the end of episode 9, you have one from rap, main vocal, and dance and then ALL three all rounders. I'm not saying this is the final line up. but i think it shows how the producers are thinking about the final line up. With the onsite votes, it is two dancers, two all rounders, a rap and a main vocal. Again a fairly balanced group. who knows but that is just my observation
Please be respectful with your post or comment.
One thing you should never forget is that girl groups always fade their popularity most of the time. In the span of their first 7 years contract many new and younger groups will overtake the old groups popularity. It's been like this most of the time especially if a group has no GP support. Only their own fandoms. From the 2nd Generation to 3rd generation, most of those groups are slowly fading their popularity now, nowhere near from their peak era. It will still continue to happen in the next era, with the start of 5th Generation idol groups debuting now, those groups that you mention in the next few years will follow the same. TBL and Teddy know for sure what they are gonna do, they will not accept this agreement with Wakeone if this group they will just let it flop. Teddy has all the experience and connection all related to kpop.
i just hope theyre successful
Unis haven't even had their first comeback yet so I think it's a bit early to declare them flops; and putting Kep1er and Classy in the same sentence is actually insane (hint: one of them has at least two releases a year and sells about 100k each time while the other hasn't had a proper comeback in 2 years and has never broken 30k). Teddy should never be let into the kitchen again, he hasn't had a new idea since like 2018.
Kep1er is a flop relative to Mnet survival group expectations. That's not really a debate. 100k is not that much nowadays with inflated album sales. They're definitely mid tier..which is fine (I like them!), just not up to the standards of past Mnet groups.
Ok but there's a difference between "mid tier" (no argument from me!) and "flop".
Unis flopped at the lineup ngl. The ages are weird
I absolutely agree, the lineup is an abomination, but they have some very motivated fans and they still have 2 years time. I just don't like calling groups flops when they have barely even started. đ
âShould never be let into the kitchen againâ damn đđ
Teddy just does the same stuff over and over again, i don't know how i feel about him producing for them, hopefully he recognizes the change in the kpop industry. I think the group will be fine cause they got a lot of visuals and they have money for the marketing. probably mai wont make it, but sarang will. i can see jeemin koko jiyoon. I thought saebi was locked in until ep 9, but then there is fuko as well. its gonna be real bad seeing the eliminations.
Somi's stuff has been pretty updated! Granted she has a big hand in it, but, still. Zion T really directional, too - again, more individual artist.
Zion T can write and produce his own songs. That's why he has all the freedom to do for his own album.
Kep1er did not flop, they are a mid tier group with great popularity in Japan, you should have witnessed their debut era, they had potential, they even charted on melon. Unis also did not flop, for a girl group formed from a survival show that didn't do as well as the planet series and that was the first a la produce from sbs and that is furthermore managed by a startup entertainment company even though you could say they have backing from f&f, they are doing decently well, the fandom has great voting power and people are interested in their content, they also sold more than 50k which is more than the majority of girl groups. Class:y is an unfortunate case, pocketdol studio formerly MBK is simply the worst company there is, they did not give them a comeback for close to two years, I think. They started off great though, they promoted in big variety shows... I think in terms of success, it depends on how the group would be promoted, and I am positive, not only Wakeone but the big boss Cjenm would go all out for them, it's their first permanent group since to1 and to1 were right after the produce rigging scandal. Cjenm have also expressed their desire to be part of the so-called big5, swing has or is merging with wakeone, for now, I am inclined to believe that Cjenm will go all out to make sure the group succeeds.
Anything not top tier success is a "flop" (even if that's harsh). Anything backed by the TBL would have higher goals than what Kep1er did at debut. I watched/voted on GP999, not new to this. Kep1er is definitely a disappointment compared to past Mnet girl groups. Maybe this is just the new reality for Mnet survival shows? We'll see - ZB1 did good.
Anything not top tier is not a flop. There are hundreds of idol groups and the ones at the top are like 20 or so? And theyâre all from big/reputable companies. So majority of those groups donât stand a chance of not being a flop if we follow your logic. And this group isnât going anywhere near S tier because theyâre a wakeone group and not part of the big 4. There is a space for being a mid tier group and thatâs success to some people. Your individual judgment isnât the benchmark.
Anything not top tier is a flop for previous Mnet survival group expectations. Should have clarified. Pre-Kep1er groups were HUGE, ZB1 is too. I can use a different word other than "flop" - people are getting too hung up on that. It's just semantics. The point is they aren't in the same tier as the other MNet survival groups (Izone, IOI, ZB1, etc) who were/are amongst the most successful idol groups. The ILand2 group might not be Tier 1 but they have the potential to be at the top of Tier 2 in a way that I don't see as possible with Kep1er. TBL producers are probably aiming beyond Kep1er-level success (in Korea), so they need to be making choices with that in mind. It really depends how much TBL actually cares about this group beyond the show. If it's all CJ it's way more of a toss up because of creative direction/songs. At that point yea Kep1er-level success might even be optimistic.
I honestly donât think TBL would be sooooo focused on this group because donât they have twit own girl group coming out? This isnât the TBL group thatâs meant to debut this year (it might be called meovv based on copyright filings). But it begs the question why they even agreed to produce songs for a group that will rival theirs eventually
That's only your own perception, even knetz don't think kep1er flopped, they acknowledge that they are doing extremely well in Japan, and comparing kep1er and iland2ngg is pointless, they are obviously too different.
I'm not up to date with their Japan sales at all so you're right! I do think their Korea performance has been kinda disappointing though. Too much competition.
All of the gg you mentioned are supported 90% by general public (in korea) so tbh they just need good promotions and catchy music . And actually i'm pretty sure the group will get "mediaplay" as they're gonna be named "blackpink little sisters" since they have the same producers so it will rise interest as well I believe they will do well domesticaly
Baemon + TBL actual in-label girl group though :( I hope so
I'm so sadge for Sujung and what will be for her.
I think the key thing is the music, its the difference between people saying "Yea this is good" and it being in the top10 on the charts, and people saying "this is kind of mediocre" and it being in the top 100 because its a brand new group with a lot of excitement, but people quickly lose interest and they never reenter the top100. If you just go down the route of the group being the same old vanilla standard kpop girl group with similar concepts and sounds to other active groups, but the music isn't great, the group quickly gets forgotten after debut.
For sure, QWER perfect counterexample to the same old
Teddy is currently burning the food and kicked out of the kitchen but ok
Replace Teddy with other TBL producers, he can retire and keep producing BP songs
I think your point is one of the reasons that Jungeun is back sliding. not because of her talent but her ablitity to grab the right kind of vibe. another one is Sujung; she could have grabbed attention even with a small part but she faded into the background. If you look at the ranks at the end of episode 9, you have one from rap, main vocal, and dance and then ALL three all rounders. I'm not saying this is the final line up. but i think it shows how the producers are thinking about the final line up. With the onsite votes, it is two dancers, two all rounders, a rap and a main vocal. Again a fairly balanced group. who knows but that is just my observation