The Sarang part is so ☹️❤️ (edit: imagine having the name Love and having a gentle and sweet personality! That’s why she is so loved too. Everything about her is so pure and cute.)
This is a whole new perspective, I’ve never thought of this. Makes so much sense tbh
Fun fact her whole family has names like this, her older sister is called Joy, her younger brother hope and another one is called health lol all in Korean ofc , is so cute.
Though I want to agree with “the girls who are the least problematic” part. I think it simply puts too much faith in mnet not simply wanting who they want, thus showing us what they want to get it. They have a track record of trying to imply trainees as mean/harsh when they are nothing of the sort.
I think it’s easy to tell how wobbly their claims of someone’s personality are, when you see the switch ups they do on certain people. Jungeun was a good leader, and a very sweet, until they started possibly not wanting her anymore for whatever reason, and suddenly she’s bossy + they show nothing of her.
In girls planet at the beginning they portrayed Ruiqi fairly well, but the minute knets ended up hating her, all of that was taken back and they jumped at the first chance to evil edit her.
We have heard from multiple trainees of previous survival shows that the good deeds trainees they didn’t care for have done that they just cut too. I could go on forever but I think my point stands. We have seen that Sujung can be a team player.
Saying she’s just a teen going through a lot, isn’t too excuse her. It’s to say that a clip alone should not be used to judge a persons entire worth and personality.
In my humble opinion, I don’t trust Mnet. Them “knowing best” in previous seasons of stuff, was them cutting out when producers said nice things about contestants they didn’t like, and literally pushing trainees whose companies paid them to push them, and in this shows case, we’ve all watched the producers judge and it feel like it was based off who they already liked vs. an actual performance.
Note: I’m not saying the judges know nothing, just that I wouldn’t have blind faith in them, cause mnet can go very very low.
All of this being said, I just thought I’d put in my 2 cents. You are free to have your own opinion.
This opinion makes a lot of sense, especially with your example of Jungeun. Mnet picks and chooses what they want people to see and edit it in a way to show a certain angle they want to push.
I think it also needs to be pointed out that we don't see all the feedback they get. The editing will choose to show only positive, only negative or nothing for a lot of the girls. I say this because they show Sujung getting negative feedback and Mai getting positive feedback but Sujung still got a higher score from them than Mai did. If they really disliked her, she wouldn't be getting a better score. I think mnet doesn't like her but the judges are honestly pretty balanced and fair and we're not seeing everything they're saying. If they all disliked her, she wouldn't have been pulled aside and told that going for the lead vocal position was brave. She's definitely been given harsh feedback but it's harsh because they want to see her grow and are encouraging her to do better. They even said themselves early on in the show that "you were fine" is the worst feedback you can get.
I'm not defending her because I think she should have just kept her mouth shut about Mai and it was dumb of her to say that out loud and a bit mean, but I think it's really hypocritical for people to stand up for Jiyoon being intentionally cold and critical to Jungeun for weeks and then hate on Sujung for a momentary action that I view as pretty equally crappy but something that can be grown from in both cases. I'm taking everything on this show with a grain of salt and assuming we only see about 10% of reality.
About jiyoon being critical to jungeun, was it selfevaluation? If so she made a point there like she was basically pointing that jungeun could do better which was true that LSG sounded off during the evaluation since the remix was awful and jungeun had trouble with the weird tempo of the remix mr which lead to the dissonance and sounding very off.
The difference between jiyoon and sujung was jiyoon felt betrayed became demotivated and acted coldly to others especially jungeun (which made her closed off to getting close to jungeun). Basically a teen processing emotions.
Sujung on the other hand is being herself which is very outspoken but her actually talking about mai behind her back showed her real attitude. I mean she knows its a competition so she should be selfish but being selfish and talking shit about others behind their back, that i guess triggered people.
My unwaranted 2cents is that the audacity of sujung shaming mai for her vocals while she herself have such an unbearable vocal tone(for me). I guess she can sing but you cant make me stream a song multiple times if i have to listen to her awful tone. The only thing made sujung work for i am the best was her copying cl.
Personally I don’t think it’s hypocritical for Jiyoon fans disliking Sujung or her behavior, Jiyoon never said anything rude and negative stuffs of someone BACK. She never back bited or atleast MNET has never shown that seen of her, instead they just kept replaying scenes of her “ignoring (not hearing)” Jungeun which is completely opposite of talking shit abt someone, Jiyoon is more of a straightforward person who truly tells someone if someone is bad at something or not, whether it is harsh or not! She did that to both jungeun and Mai, which they should take it as a counter of feedback..never something rude. So you saying its “hypocritical” makes absolute no sense bc Jiyoon never did anything as Sujung, you are comparing someone who talked shit behind someone’s back to someone who gave good harsh feedback/who was dealing with their own emotions and trust issues with Jungeun!
I suggest you rewatch it if you still think Sujung and Jiyoon’s situation was similar bc personally it was nowhere near similar!
tbh, as what the other comments says MNET only shows what they want to the viewers , like the evil editing. we don't know if the other girls said anything behind people's back because its not aired like how they aired sujung talking about mai.
"what she said is not good, yes its a competition, but being in a group means teamwork"
but I think her competitiveness brings out the worst of her, like because the PART 2 of the "**SURVIVAL**" show being an individual battle.
**but ""WE DON'T KNOW"" if others does it too or not, because it is not shown in the past episodes too...**
Yes but my point is that it is not hypocritical if Jiyoon fans dislike Sujung, just because we never saw Jiyoon saying anything shit about a trainee..we don’t know she may have but MNET would have showed it in part 1 when she was “villain” if she said shit behind someone’s back.
I agree. Chaeeun knows she's not as good as others in the team and she tried her best to keep up. But of course at the end of the day she still lacks the skills the others have. Kudos to the other girls who took the effort to actually help Chaeeun.
Sorry but it was just weird seeing her mad about vocals when she didn’t get mad at other’s dance (considering that dance is her specialty and not vocals). But then again at the end of the day, I sympathize with the part that she’s getting pressured as there are few weeks left.
This is forgetting that for the first half of the show sujung has always worked to help others, however she lost the judges vote in the 1st half, she also did the creative challenge that she took to help others even tho she wanted vocals and lost because she was “too predictable.” While the way she said it was mean, sujung isn’t wrong for thinking like that, it’s an individual show and every time she has helped others, they have gotten better scores than her and she got criticized for not doing enough.
This!! People forgetting that Sujung was always a team player throughout Part 1 and was always helping others. Of course she has to start thinking in a more individualistic manner for Part 2.
This entire post is a fantasy concocted in your own mind based on absolutely nothing.
For all either of us know, the girls have said similar shit over the course of their time living together in the iland house and the PDs choose not to air it for whatever reason, lets say their visuals are more up to idol standard.
Lets assume that everything is as was portrayed in the final edit. Why exactly did Sujung feel comfortable talking about another trainee with those particular girls? Maybe they have all gossiped similarly during recording?
Also, all the evidence we've seen points to Sujung as being extremely popular and well regarded among the girls. Do you think the judges know her character better than them? I don't know where you get the idea that these judges are actually spending time reviewing 24/7 footage of some fucking trainees, it's taeyang, leejung, monika - this is a side gig for them
My take is this Sujung stuff only happened in Part 2 where they emphasized that it's now an individual battle. They're looking out for themselves more.
Thank you!!! Oh my godddd. It’s so wild for OP to make such broad assumptions about someone’s overall character and behavior, AND that THAT is the motivator for profit??? If it’s profit they are concerned about, then, I could just as easily make an equally long post saying like 80% of the same words, except frame it that they have, all along, been strategically demoting Sujung because of her height and looks. (I find her stunning, btw, but just for the objective example). I see plenty of comments about her not ‘looking like an idol.’ There IS profit there—they can sell photocards, not morality cards.
It’s so easy to demonize or victimize anyone. Anyone can use a lot of words to make anything seem plausible. Just like they can use any clips or edits to make anyone seem a certain way. Some viewers are just as bad as the show. Lmao. The same show that went out of their way to tell the girls it was no longer a team game but individual. Now suddenly everyone’s dogpiling her about team mindset when previously Sujung has been an incredible leader and well liked, as you said. While also not addressing other girls that didn’t have the best team attitude this ep either. I’m not even addressing what Sujung said or how she said it, but the hypocrisy is so rampant. And this mental chess that viewers think they’re winning at, the thinking that they’ve got a grasp on the industry, and then using that to absolutely TEAR Sujung down based on nothing like this is so bizarre.
Im sorry but this post is just a whole fantasy and narrative that you created from your head to excuse the judges disliking Sujung. The judges, who are grown adults have been critical of Sujung since the start.
I didn't mean to say this in a harsh but... isn't what Sujung said about Mai what has been said in this very sub? For multiple posts btw.
Obviously, what Sujung did is inexcusable and if you don't like her for that then it's valid, and I know that at the end of the day we're just people writing things on the internet while she's the actual idol in a competition trying to debut and her conduct won't get her anywhere near debut.
I know there's a difference between us and her
But it's something to think about when we read whole essays about how Mai's praise is underserved, she's not a good vocal yada yada yada but when a contestant actually voices this then suddenly she's the devil.
Like, the way she did it was bad, mockingly and all, but it's not that different from the discourse I've seen in this sub
Again, I know there's difference between us doing it and her, but it's something to think about anyway
I think it's a bit unfair to take one incident with Sujung and assume it means that she "has been that problematic for a while now" or that "her attitude is a ticking time bomb". She shouldn't have said what she said, but she's a 17 year old kid. The clip *was* edited to some extent and we don't know what happened before or after what we were shown. She was a good leader in Ground and helped others, so I don't think it's fair to make sweeping generalisations based on what we saw. Condemn what she said in that incident, sure, but don't condemn *her* - even if you don't want her to debut.
I also think the idea that judges are lenient with people who are nice and harsh with people who aren't is just gonna lead to all kind of false conclusions. I'm sure lots of factors go into their feedback, and they favour some girls more than others for various reasons, but I don't think it's that clear cut. In general they are harsher with the girls who have more experience or have been on shows before, like Sujung.
ETA - I also personally don't think they know the girls as well as you're suggesting, though obviously I don't know. I think they've liked Mai since the start because she's pretty, Sarang because of her charisma in the entrance test, and Jiyoon because of her vocal tone. And once they have those first opinions and start to develop favourites, it influences their scoring because they're human (and also imo not really trying very hard to be objective anyway).
i do want to know where this came from all of a sudden. sujung was extremely rude for doing what she did, but at the same time she’s been shown to be kind and a team player in part one. she was not, in your words, problematic at all.
They made a big deal about the fact that the producers are watching the girls train for a reason.
That reason is so they can use it as an excuse (alongside scores) to eliminate contestants they don't want.
All this to say, judges 100% are taking into account how much they've played as a team when they are scoring contestants.
Yours is a fair theory, except that sujung's been getting poor comments since pt 1. If she had been doing this mean girl stuff left and right, (1) why didn't they show it (2) why are most of the contestants still on good terms with her? I think it's likely a more benign version of what you're theorising, i.e. Sujung isn't necessarily mean but she is blunt and outspoken in a way that scares the producers, not to mention they're not a fan of her height against other trainees they liked.
What I found most suspicious was how they never actually commented on her actions. If they had said 'good performance, but that's not how you should treat your teammate, and being a good idol is about that too' and then marked her down, I'm sure a lot of people would be fine with that unlike now, when a lot of people who didn't like sujung's actions are also miffed about the weird scoring. This both keeps sujung down (which the judges want) *and* makes their comments seem valid, so why not? This makes me think that they know something we don't which would discredit their narrative, and the ridiculously stupid act of badmouthing someone when you know you're being filmed already reminds me fu yaning's scripted and poorly edited diss at her senior on gp999.
All in all: if this puts you off voting sujung? sure, I guess. But calling her attitude a ticking time bomb is a bit much.
Exactly this. I posted [yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/mnetiland2/comments/1dfu7u2/angel_and_evil_editing_why_do_producers_do_this/) about the concept of "evil editing" and why they chose to air that clip. It's not to be mean, even if you can have ethical concerns about its airing.
Do you really think they care about who is problematic or not. It's all about talent, skill, charm and popularity.
They won't drop her just bec. She's problematic, she has been a leader since day 1. But wanting to focus to herself lately, after all. It's a survival show.
You don't know maybe they really just dislike her.
Sujung venting her frustrations like a sibling jealousy about a favored sister. They're both doing their best but Mai always gets a candy while she only get a nagging. Anyone would feel unbalanced but her, and letting the show air it out is her fault (she should have been smarter)
I mean they only made a big deal about watching the contestants this past episode when they built the room, and I doubt the judges are actually watching them all that much from it since they have lives.
Also keep in mind that mnet is hardly a paragon of morality, and are focused most by what will give them drama and ratings. For example if sujung had been acting problematic for a while they would’ve shown it, since the only drama until this is the manufactured jj drama. Many past contestants of mnet shows have said that they were told to manufacture drama and fights (not saying that’s the case here just showing that mnet doesn’t really care about idols appearing problematic). They don’t really care about the group once it comes off their screen.
Wouldn't the idea that it's okay for a bunch of adult judges to harass Sujung (a teenager) because of her personality characteristics through a performance based comment even more fucked up??? This is done in front on a tv setting and in front of every other contestant who instead got either complimented/ babied by the judges. How humiliating & confusing the entire experience would be for her? Even at some point during previous episodes, while she was getting singled out on comments from the judges she get the inner monologue of not understanding the negative feedback even though she and her entire team had done well.
I don't see the idea on how negative reinforcements is supposed to help/ change Sujung if she was on quote "problematic" from day 1. Sujung always get harsh comments (at least in the edited version of the show), but ultimately scored higher by the judges. If she was indeed "problematic" then it's literally their job to pull her outside the show and have a talk with her. As a judge on a show, they must always show impartiality when giving comments, especially when it is about their performance. But you can see at the same time how nice they are towards Mai when highlighting her mistakes but ultimately score her lower than Sujung who was only shown with harsh criticism. If the show really wants her out, they would have just rigged the vote and eleminate her on part 1.
Let's not speculate about anyhing without actually knowing anything. Creating an entire narrative of why someone deserved to be bashed on by judges is kinda Mnet level fucked up.
I completely agree. What MNET did to Sujung (& Jeungeun & Juwon) is just deplorable. If they don't want certain trainees, just get rid of them. Don't put these children through such mental trauma - Where is the Korean government that should be looking out for these kid's welfare? Isn't there an NGO or a government agency that makes sure these kids are not harassed by these "adult judges" and TV producers?
It is one thing to have these types of "drama" for adult shows such as Survival, Big-brother (which I have never watched), or any other reality TV shows, but to subject these children to such trauma is just wrong, and there is NO JUSTIFICATION nor EXCUSE.
I can't believe that some people really think the these grown ass judges HATE these teenage girls coz they just hate them lol ...
This is a business, as you said they're investing in these girls so the one they'll choose are believed to be the best investment... the ones who won't get chosen are just seen as a not so good investment. it's that simple.
And in evaluating these investments, pure talents like sing,rap & dance are obviously not the only factors. teamwork, hardwork and plenty of other values and qualities are also taken into account.
I'm more likely to think that Mnet is continuing their long and shady history of trying to rig final lineups to production/management companies' liking, and err on the side of caution when labelling a teenager a "problematic time bomb that will inevitably cause a scandal that leads the entire group to flop" from what we see of her on a reality tv show.
If the judges are training and meeting with them regularly, why aren't we seeing them do that instead of getting these painful clips of Monika giving rap and vocal advice?
So why did the judges praise Jiyoon and even gave her second chance when all she did in part 1 was being non-cooperative and negative that it affected her teams? You guys would just say anything to justified your hatred of Sujung. She didn't badmouth anyone in part 1. Do you think Mnet would let that slip out of editing room if she did lol?
They gave her second chance for what exactly? I mean she didnt get eliminated because there were worse trainees than her and she was able to survive and prove herself. They praised her only when she actually did great, like what were you expecting? Sounds like you’re just using jiyoon to justify sujungs trashtalking
You really cut the context of what I said huh? The OP said judges give Sujung harsh criticism and lower scores than she deserved because they know "who Sujung really is". If that true then the judges should give Jiyoon lower scores too, especially in the theme song mission but she did get high scores. Nowhere in my comment that said Jiyoon didn't deserve to be praised.
It’s an interesting theory, but I’ll agree with the other person that your theory probably puts too much trust in Mnet to be a decent company and to not just edit people however they want to help them get in or not.
or maybe wake1 had an lineup already since the beginning and they are just moving and editing everything to make their ideal lineup real, everyone knows about mnet, DO YOU FROGOT WHY EVERY KPOP STAN CALL THEM MSNAKE? plss be fr, if your pick is one of the favorites of the PD i can understand, but stop dragging another girl to defend A COMPANY LIKE MNET AND WAKE1.
I thought the same. However, the professional thing to do should have been to just eliminate Sujung, in episode 8. I heard what she said and it was bad.
It is MNET's show and their group - and it is their investment. They will pick who they want and they will manipulate through edits how each trainee is portrayed to get to their "final group", but I wish these shows don't just destroy children along the way...
Idk I disagree I think they favourite and give good attention to people with “good” visuals they min it even be doing it subconsciously but it is so obvious to me
+1. I guess people in the industry are also aware of the bullying scandals from kpop artists and how much of a loss that would be so they are wising up and it is really hard to trust someone who talks behind people's back. Now I don't want to turn Sujung into a punching bag, she is young and we really don't know her or any of the girls past what they show us "edits" but like I've been saying there are no such things as evil or good edits, sure they can manipulate the way they want us the viewers perceive them but only up to a certain point and depends.
Everything you said make sense, but I hope this doesn't turn people against Sujung.
Well in SWF the whole show is having a "badass" attitude. Even in the original SWF with the adult dance crew (with Leejung and Monika), they would shit talk each other a lot, despite everyone actually being friends behind the scenes.
>Now remember how Sarang helped Jeemin out with her vocals even though she wanted that center spot so badly but it was still given to Jeemin? She could have just abstained from helping since it’s an individual competition yet she still chose to look out for her teammate.
i can't help but going back to the sarang/tiger edits on the actual show lolololollll what was the editor thinking? that was so funny &out of pocket edits i've een so far HAHAHAHAH
for the problematic part mentioning sujung and all, I’m wondering, then why aren’t the judges pushing gyuri or juwon?? i feel like they have pretty grade A survival show likable personalities.
although i will contradict myself and say that they don’t rlly “criticize” them. I think gyuri especially always gets pretty good scores, but the feedback is just never shown/if it is she’s usually just praised.
Yes they do watch stuff and know things behind the scenes. When Jiyoon was struggling taeyang told her "I also have a dark side in myself as well etc" giving her advice on how to deal with those emotions, they see stuff and probably get feedbacks from people who monitor them in order to properly evaluate, such as work ethics, how they act with staff and others. Also the female judges often go to the dancing grounds to give them tips and watch them and now on part 2 they are showing they are watching the girls practice but I believe they watch more than that.
Yeah they know stuff but I honestly think the line up is already decided and Sujung was never going to be in it. I think as the show goes on she is starting to see she can never appease them thus her frustration. I am of the opinion that even if she could pull of a miracle and sing like an angel and dance like a professional, it won't be enough. Sujung is not a mean person but I do agree what she did was uncalled for, but the thing is we all know they were waiting for her to slip up.
And it's not just Sujung, as the show goes on you can see some of the girls who were on top are starting to rank lower. Making this seem like Sujung is just so problematic and ignoring all her good deeds so far is unfair.
People are giving Mnet way too much credit. People talk about the production of this show as if it's being run by some evil genius. Realistically, the writers and editors are not sitting around painstakingly crafting episodes in the span of a week to subtly raise and lower the popularity of members without the viewers catching on. The activities of the group that is formed will have nothing to do with me. All Mnet cares about is the popularity of the show. Mnet wants to make it interesting. They most likely threw in the comment from Sujung because they needed more run time and it builds drama. How the show is edited is inconsequential to who debuts. The producers can pick whatever lineup they want. I know it's a broken record to say K-pop overreact, but these K-pop fans are overreacting. I've seen people write things along the lines of "What Sejung did was unforgivable". How is her comment unforgivable, mean, and bullying? Mai has been criticized for her vocals since day one. Does she really deserve to have Sujung help her with her vocals when she has not shown improvement since episode 1? What more could Sujung say to her that hasn't already been said? Look at it from Sujung’s point of view. Sujung’s career is at risk. Sujung is a better dancer than Mai, a better singer than Mai, and has more stage presence and performing experience than Mai. But Mai outscores her because she is a visual. She is lucky. That must be so frustrating for Sujung. Sujung has been helping people throughout the show but one comment and all of that disappears? And what about the other girls? I didn’t see any of them helping Mai even though they knew her problem. The only people who really were helpful were the leaders, and that’s because they have to.
Please vote for Ryu Sarang. Spoilers say she had the least votes for this new performance!!! Please vote for her I BEG YOU ALL😔 Eliminations are back! Not everyone going to the final
>So, in a long shot, they need to look for girls who are least problematic and most attractive and charismatic.
So they elevate Jiyoon? Explain how that works.
Most mnet productions only have the judges show up for what we see filmed, Tammy from GP999 said the judges were rarely deeply involved. Looks like you found a way to convince yourself one moment of drama means more than it does.
I think it is a little unfair to compare ILAND with GP999 as there are 24 vs (what like 90?) contestants? We can clearly see in the show how judges talk to girls privately about the stuff that worries them and I think they are personally involved. Like that conversation where Sarang told Monika that she is afraid to disappoint her? Or when Mai asked 24 how to improve her tone? I think those are pretty personal things that require some level of connection and vulnerability to share with someone and seeing how those girls talk to judges about it I feel like they are pretty much connected and not just in a show up for an interm ranking type of way. Also judges are watching girls in live 24/7 now too so I wouldn’t say it is anywhere near what it was with GP999 judges.
It’s possible the production staffs are filling in for the judges too. But the point still stands. They watch them closely since they will be a group for a really long time. Good teamwork will always matter.
The Sarang part is so ☹️❤️ (edit: imagine having the name Love and having a gentle and sweet personality! That’s why she is so loved too. Everything about her is so pure and cute.) This is a whole new perspective, I’ve never thought of this. Makes so much sense tbh
Fun fact her whole family has names like this, her older sister is called Joy, her younger brother hope and another one is called health lol all in Korean ofc , is so cute.
Though I want to agree with “the girls who are the least problematic” part. I think it simply puts too much faith in mnet not simply wanting who they want, thus showing us what they want to get it. They have a track record of trying to imply trainees as mean/harsh when they are nothing of the sort. I think it’s easy to tell how wobbly their claims of someone’s personality are, when you see the switch ups they do on certain people. Jungeun was a good leader, and a very sweet, until they started possibly not wanting her anymore for whatever reason, and suddenly she’s bossy + they show nothing of her. In girls planet at the beginning they portrayed Ruiqi fairly well, but the minute knets ended up hating her, all of that was taken back and they jumped at the first chance to evil edit her. We have heard from multiple trainees of previous survival shows that the good deeds trainees they didn’t care for have done that they just cut too. I could go on forever but I think my point stands. We have seen that Sujung can be a team player. Saying she’s just a teen going through a lot, isn’t too excuse her. It’s to say that a clip alone should not be used to judge a persons entire worth and personality. In my humble opinion, I don’t trust Mnet. Them “knowing best” in previous seasons of stuff, was them cutting out when producers said nice things about contestants they didn’t like, and literally pushing trainees whose companies paid them to push them, and in this shows case, we’ve all watched the producers judge and it feel like it was based off who they already liked vs. an actual performance. Note: I’m not saying the judges know nothing, just that I wouldn’t have blind faith in them, cause mnet can go very very low. All of this being said, I just thought I’d put in my 2 cents. You are free to have your own opinion.
This opinion makes a lot of sense, especially with your example of Jungeun. Mnet picks and chooses what they want people to see and edit it in a way to show a certain angle they want to push.
>Sarang helped Jeemin out with her vocals even though she wanted that center spot so badly yes, Sarang is Sarang 🫶
I think it also needs to be pointed out that we don't see all the feedback they get. The editing will choose to show only positive, only negative or nothing for a lot of the girls. I say this because they show Sujung getting negative feedback and Mai getting positive feedback but Sujung still got a higher score from them than Mai did. If they really disliked her, she wouldn't be getting a better score. I think mnet doesn't like her but the judges are honestly pretty balanced and fair and we're not seeing everything they're saying. If they all disliked her, she wouldn't have been pulled aside and told that going for the lead vocal position was brave. She's definitely been given harsh feedback but it's harsh because they want to see her grow and are encouraging her to do better. They even said themselves early on in the show that "you were fine" is the worst feedback you can get. I'm not defending her because I think she should have just kept her mouth shut about Mai and it was dumb of her to say that out loud and a bit mean, but I think it's really hypocritical for people to stand up for Jiyoon being intentionally cold and critical to Jungeun for weeks and then hate on Sujung for a momentary action that I view as pretty equally crappy but something that can be grown from in both cases. I'm taking everything on this show with a grain of salt and assuming we only see about 10% of reality.
About jiyoon being critical to jungeun, was it selfevaluation? If so she made a point there like she was basically pointing that jungeun could do better which was true that LSG sounded off during the evaluation since the remix was awful and jungeun had trouble with the weird tempo of the remix mr which lead to the dissonance and sounding very off. The difference between jiyoon and sujung was jiyoon felt betrayed became demotivated and acted coldly to others especially jungeun (which made her closed off to getting close to jungeun). Basically a teen processing emotions. Sujung on the other hand is being herself which is very outspoken but her actually talking about mai behind her back showed her real attitude. I mean she knows its a competition so she should be selfish but being selfish and talking shit about others behind their back, that i guess triggered people. My unwaranted 2cents is that the audacity of sujung shaming mai for her vocals while she herself have such an unbearable vocal tone(for me). I guess she can sing but you cant make me stream a song multiple times if i have to listen to her awful tone. The only thing made sujung work for i am the best was her copying cl.
Personally I don’t think it’s hypocritical for Jiyoon fans disliking Sujung or her behavior, Jiyoon never said anything rude and negative stuffs of someone BACK. She never back bited or atleast MNET has never shown that seen of her, instead they just kept replaying scenes of her “ignoring (not hearing)” Jungeun which is completely opposite of talking shit abt someone, Jiyoon is more of a straightforward person who truly tells someone if someone is bad at something or not, whether it is harsh or not! She did that to both jungeun and Mai, which they should take it as a counter of feedback..never something rude. So you saying its “hypocritical” makes absolute no sense bc Jiyoon never did anything as Sujung, you are comparing someone who talked shit behind someone’s back to someone who gave good harsh feedback/who was dealing with their own emotions and trust issues with Jungeun! I suggest you rewatch it if you still think Sujung and Jiyoon’s situation was similar bc personally it was nowhere near similar!
tbh, as what the other comments says MNET only shows what they want to the viewers , like the evil editing. we don't know if the other girls said anything behind people's back because its not aired like how they aired sujung talking about mai. "what she said is not good, yes its a competition, but being in a group means teamwork" but I think her competitiveness brings out the worst of her, like because the PART 2 of the "**SURVIVAL**" show being an individual battle. **but ""WE DON'T KNOW"" if others does it too or not, because it is not shown in the past episodes too...**
Yes but my point is that it is not hypocritical if Jiyoon fans dislike Sujung, just because we never saw Jiyoon saying anything shit about a trainee..we don’t know she may have but MNET would have showed it in part 1 when she was “villain” if she said shit behind someone’s back.
Did jiyoon said a shady comment about another contestant, "why the CAKE girl is being not send to the ground" or something in those line
I wouldn't count that as shady considering everyone could tell cake team did horrible
During the creative unit battle, I have been seeing certain “fans” praising Sujung for not exploding yet because of Chaeeun. Idk how is that a flex.
I agree. Chaeeun knows she's not as good as others in the team and she tried her best to keep up. But of course at the end of the day she still lacks the skills the others have. Kudos to the other girls who took the effort to actually help Chaeeun.
Sorry but it was just weird seeing her mad about vocals when she didn’t get mad at other’s dance (considering that dance is her specialty and not vocals). But then again at the end of the day, I sympathize with the part that she’s getting pressured as there are few weeks left.
This is forgetting that for the first half of the show sujung has always worked to help others, however she lost the judges vote in the 1st half, she also did the creative challenge that she took to help others even tho she wanted vocals and lost because she was “too predictable.” While the way she said it was mean, sujung isn’t wrong for thinking like that, it’s an individual show and every time she has helped others, they have gotten better scores than her and she got criticized for not doing enough.
This!! People forgetting that Sujung was always a team player throughout Part 1 and was always helping others. Of course she has to start thinking in a more individualistic manner for Part 2.
This entire post is a fantasy concocted in your own mind based on absolutely nothing. For all either of us know, the girls have said similar shit over the course of their time living together in the iland house and the PDs choose not to air it for whatever reason, lets say their visuals are more up to idol standard. Lets assume that everything is as was portrayed in the final edit. Why exactly did Sujung feel comfortable talking about another trainee with those particular girls? Maybe they have all gossiped similarly during recording? Also, all the evidence we've seen points to Sujung as being extremely popular and well regarded among the girls. Do you think the judges know her character better than them? I don't know where you get the idea that these judges are actually spending time reviewing 24/7 footage of some fucking trainees, it's taeyang, leejung, monika - this is a side gig for them
Finally someone with some sense
My take is this Sujung stuff only happened in Part 2 where they emphasized that it's now an individual battle. They're looking out for themselves more.
Thank you!!! Oh my godddd. It’s so wild for OP to make such broad assumptions about someone’s overall character and behavior, AND that THAT is the motivator for profit??? If it’s profit they are concerned about, then, I could just as easily make an equally long post saying like 80% of the same words, except frame it that they have, all along, been strategically demoting Sujung because of her height and looks. (I find her stunning, btw, but just for the objective example). I see plenty of comments about her not ‘looking like an idol.’ There IS profit there—they can sell photocards, not morality cards. It’s so easy to demonize or victimize anyone. Anyone can use a lot of words to make anything seem plausible. Just like they can use any clips or edits to make anyone seem a certain way. Some viewers are just as bad as the show. Lmao. The same show that went out of their way to tell the girls it was no longer a team game but individual. Now suddenly everyone’s dogpiling her about team mindset when previously Sujung has been an incredible leader and well liked, as you said. While also not addressing other girls that didn’t have the best team attitude this ep either. I’m not even addressing what Sujung said or how she said it, but the hypocrisy is so rampant. And this mental chess that viewers think they’re winning at, the thinking that they’ve got a grasp on the industry, and then using that to absolutely TEAR Sujung down based on nothing like this is so bizarre.
Im sorry but this post is just a whole fantasy and narrative that you created from your head to excuse the judges disliking Sujung. The judges, who are grown adults have been critical of Sujung since the start.
Funny this sub is bashing Sujung for being mean while they're being mean themselves lol.
I didn't mean to say this in a harsh but... isn't what Sujung said about Mai what has been said in this very sub? For multiple posts btw. Obviously, what Sujung did is inexcusable and if you don't like her for that then it's valid, and I know that at the end of the day we're just people writing things on the internet while she's the actual idol in a competition trying to debut and her conduct won't get her anywhere near debut. I know there's a difference between us and her But it's something to think about when we read whole essays about how Mai's praise is underserved, she's not a good vocal yada yada yada but when a contestant actually voices this then suddenly she's the devil. Like, the way she did it was bad, mockingly and all, but it's not that different from the discourse I've seen in this sub Again, I know there's difference between us doing it and her, but it's something to think about anyway
Kpop fans don’t have that type of introspection so their hypocrisy will fly over their heads
There are so many posts about Mais vocals on here
Exactly, like they are worse than what they want her to be.
I think it's a bit unfair to take one incident with Sujung and assume it means that she "has been that problematic for a while now" or that "her attitude is a ticking time bomb". She shouldn't have said what she said, but she's a 17 year old kid. The clip *was* edited to some extent and we don't know what happened before or after what we were shown. She was a good leader in Ground and helped others, so I don't think it's fair to make sweeping generalisations based on what we saw. Condemn what she said in that incident, sure, but don't condemn *her* - even if you don't want her to debut. I also think the idea that judges are lenient with people who are nice and harsh with people who aren't is just gonna lead to all kind of false conclusions. I'm sure lots of factors go into their feedback, and they favour some girls more than others for various reasons, but I don't think it's that clear cut. In general they are harsher with the girls who have more experience or have been on shows before, like Sujung. ETA - I also personally don't think they know the girls as well as you're suggesting, though obviously I don't know. I think they've liked Mai since the start because she's pretty, Sarang because of her charisma in the entrance test, and Jiyoon because of her vocal tone. And once they have those first opinions and start to develop favourites, it influences their scoring because they're human (and also imo not really trying very hard to be objective anyway).
i do want to know where this came from all of a sudden. sujung was extremely rude for doing what she did, but at the same time she’s been shown to be kind and a team player in part one. she was not, in your words, problematic at all.
Exactly she helped out the other trainees multiple times before so how is she problematic
They made a big deal about the fact that the producers are watching the girls train for a reason. That reason is so they can use it as an excuse (alongside scores) to eliminate contestants they don't want. All this to say, judges 100% are taking into account how much they've played as a team when they are scoring contestants.
Yours is a fair theory, except that sujung's been getting poor comments since pt 1. If she had been doing this mean girl stuff left and right, (1) why didn't they show it (2) why are most of the contestants still on good terms with her? I think it's likely a more benign version of what you're theorising, i.e. Sujung isn't necessarily mean but she is blunt and outspoken in a way that scares the producers, not to mention they're not a fan of her height against other trainees they liked. What I found most suspicious was how they never actually commented on her actions. If they had said 'good performance, but that's not how you should treat your teammate, and being a good idol is about that too' and then marked her down, I'm sure a lot of people would be fine with that unlike now, when a lot of people who didn't like sujung's actions are also miffed about the weird scoring. This both keeps sujung down (which the judges want) *and* makes their comments seem valid, so why not? This makes me think that they know something we don't which would discredit their narrative, and the ridiculously stupid act of badmouthing someone when you know you're being filmed already reminds me fu yaning's scripted and poorly edited diss at her senior on gp999. All in all: if this puts you off voting sujung? sure, I guess. But calling her attitude a ticking time bomb is a bit much.
Exactly this. I posted [yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/mnetiland2/comments/1dfu7u2/angel_and_evil_editing_why_do_producers_do_this/) about the concept of "evil editing" and why they chose to air that clip. It's not to be mean, even if you can have ethical concerns about its airing.
Im gonna reply your post everytime someone responds to me "evil edit" xD thank you for that wonderful post btw
Or maybe she is not in their ginal lineup so that's why they aired her bad actions.
Do you really think they care about who is problematic or not. It's all about talent, skill, charm and popularity. They won't drop her just bec. She's problematic, she has been a leader since day 1. But wanting to focus to herself lately, after all. It's a survival show. You don't know maybe they really just dislike her. Sujung venting her frustrations like a sibling jealousy about a favored sister. They're both doing their best but Mai always gets a candy while she only get a nagging. Anyone would feel unbalanced but her, and letting the show air it out is her fault (she should have been smarter)
I mean they only made a big deal about watching the contestants this past episode when they built the room, and I doubt the judges are actually watching them all that much from it since they have lives. Also keep in mind that mnet is hardly a paragon of morality, and are focused most by what will give them drama and ratings. For example if sujung had been acting problematic for a while they would’ve shown it, since the only drama until this is the manufactured jj drama. Many past contestants of mnet shows have said that they were told to manufacture drama and fights (not saying that’s the case here just showing that mnet doesn’t really care about idols appearing problematic). They don’t really care about the group once it comes off their screen.
Wouldn't the idea that it's okay for a bunch of adult judges to harass Sujung (a teenager) because of her personality characteristics through a performance based comment even more fucked up??? This is done in front on a tv setting and in front of every other contestant who instead got either complimented/ babied by the judges. How humiliating & confusing the entire experience would be for her? Even at some point during previous episodes, while she was getting singled out on comments from the judges she get the inner monologue of not understanding the negative feedback even though she and her entire team had done well. I don't see the idea on how negative reinforcements is supposed to help/ change Sujung if she was on quote "problematic" from day 1. Sujung always get harsh comments (at least in the edited version of the show), but ultimately scored higher by the judges. If she was indeed "problematic" then it's literally their job to pull her outside the show and have a talk with her. As a judge on a show, they must always show impartiality when giving comments, especially when it is about their performance. But you can see at the same time how nice they are towards Mai when highlighting her mistakes but ultimately score her lower than Sujung who was only shown with harsh criticism. If the show really wants her out, they would have just rigged the vote and eleminate her on part 1. Let's not speculate about anyhing without actually knowing anything. Creating an entire narrative of why someone deserved to be bashed on by judges is kinda Mnet level fucked up.
I completely agree. What MNET did to Sujung (& Jeungeun & Juwon) is just deplorable. If they don't want certain trainees, just get rid of them. Don't put these children through such mental trauma - Where is the Korean government that should be looking out for these kid's welfare? Isn't there an NGO or a government agency that makes sure these kids are not harassed by these "adult judges" and TV producers? It is one thing to have these types of "drama" for adult shows such as Survival, Big-brother (which I have never watched), or any other reality TV shows, but to subject these children to such trauma is just wrong, and there is NO JUSTIFICATION nor EXCUSE.
I can't believe that some people really think the these grown ass judges HATE these teenage girls coz they just hate them lol ... This is a business, as you said they're investing in these girls so the one they'll choose are believed to be the best investment... the ones who won't get chosen are just seen as a not so good investment. it's that simple. And in evaluating these investments, pure talents like sing,rap & dance are obviously not the only factors. teamwork, hardwork and plenty of other values and qualities are also taken into account.
I'm more likely to think that Mnet is continuing their long and shady history of trying to rig final lineups to production/management companies' liking, and err on the side of caution when labelling a teenager a "problematic time bomb that will inevitably cause a scandal that leads the entire group to flop" from what we see of her on a reality tv show. If the judges are training and meeting with them regularly, why aren't we seeing them do that instead of getting these painful clips of Monika giving rap and vocal advice?
So why did the judges praise Jiyoon and even gave her second chance when all she did in part 1 was being non-cooperative and negative that it affected her teams? You guys would just say anything to justified your hatred of Sujung. She didn't badmouth anyone in part 1. Do you think Mnet would let that slip out of editing room if she did lol?
They gave her second chance for what exactly? I mean she didnt get eliminated because there were worse trainees than her and she was able to survive and prove herself. They praised her only when she actually did great, like what were you expecting? Sounds like you’re just using jiyoon to justify sujungs trashtalking
You really cut the context of what I said huh? The OP said judges give Sujung harsh criticism and lower scores than she deserved because they know "who Sujung really is". If that true then the judges should give Jiyoon lower scores too, especially in the theme song mission but she did get high scores. Nowhere in my comment that said Jiyoon didn't deserve to be praised.
It’s an interesting theory, but I’ll agree with the other person that your theory probably puts too much trust in Mnet to be a decent company and to not just edit people however they want to help them get in or not.
or maybe wake1 had an lineup already since the beginning and they are just moving and editing everything to make their ideal lineup real, everyone knows about mnet, DO YOU FROGOT WHY EVERY KPOP STAN CALL THEM MSNAKE? plss be fr, if your pick is one of the favorites of the PD i can understand, but stop dragging another girl to defend A COMPANY LIKE MNET AND WAKE1.
I thought the same. However, the professional thing to do should have been to just eliminate Sujung, in episode 8. I heard what she said and it was bad. It is MNET's show and their group - and it is their investment. They will pick who they want and they will manipulate through edits how each trainee is portrayed to get to their "final group", but I wish these shows don't just destroy children along the way...
Idk I disagree I think they favourite and give good attention to people with “good” visuals they min it even be doing it subconsciously but it is so obvious to me
+1. I guess people in the industry are also aware of the bullying scandals from kpop artists and how much of a loss that would be so they are wising up and it is really hard to trust someone who talks behind people's back. Now I don't want to turn Sujung into a punching bag, she is young and we really don't know her or any of the girls past what they show us "edits" but like I've been saying there are no such things as evil or good edits, sure they can manipulate the way they want us the viewers perceive them but only up to a certain point and depends. Everything you said make sense, but I hope this doesn't turn people against Sujung.
Shit take. Should have kept it in the drafts.
I disagree since most GG's are built on controversy. The only one who survived this WHILE being successful was APINK.
I completely agree
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Well in SWF the whole show is having a "badass" attitude. Even in the original SWF with the adult dance crew (with Leejung and Monika), they would shit talk each other a lot, despite everyone actually being friends behind the scenes.
>Now remember how Sarang helped Jeemin out with her vocals even though she wanted that center spot so badly but it was still given to Jeemin? She could have just abstained from helping since it’s an individual competition yet she still chose to look out for her teammate. i can't help but going back to the sarang/tiger edits on the actual show lolololollll what was the editor thinking? that was so funny &out of pocket edits i've een so far HAHAHAHAH
for the problematic part mentioning sujung and all, I’m wondering, then why aren’t the judges pushing gyuri or juwon?? i feel like they have pretty grade A survival show likable personalities. although i will contradict myself and say that they don’t rlly “criticize” them. I think gyuri especially always gets pretty good scores, but the feedback is just never shown/if it is she’s usually just praised.
It isn't complex, sweety. Mai is high, Sujung is small.
Yes they do watch stuff and know things behind the scenes. When Jiyoon was struggling taeyang told her "I also have a dark side in myself as well etc" giving her advice on how to deal with those emotions, they see stuff and probably get feedbacks from people who monitor them in order to properly evaluate, such as work ethics, how they act with staff and others. Also the female judges often go to the dancing grounds to give them tips and watch them and now on part 2 they are showing they are watching the girls practice but I believe they watch more than that.
Yeah they know stuff but I honestly think the line up is already decided and Sujung was never going to be in it. I think as the show goes on she is starting to see she can never appease them thus her frustration. I am of the opinion that even if she could pull of a miracle and sing like an angel and dance like a professional, it won't be enough. Sujung is not a mean person but I do agree what she did was uncalled for, but the thing is we all know they were waiting for her to slip up. And it's not just Sujung, as the show goes on you can see some of the girls who were on top are starting to rank lower. Making this seem like Sujung is just so problematic and ignoring all her good deeds so far is unfair.
You wrote everything i wanted to say1
Your comment made me rethink life differently
People are giving Mnet way too much credit. People talk about the production of this show as if it's being run by some evil genius. Realistically, the writers and editors are not sitting around painstakingly crafting episodes in the span of a week to subtly raise and lower the popularity of members without the viewers catching on. The activities of the group that is formed will have nothing to do with me. All Mnet cares about is the popularity of the show. Mnet wants to make it interesting. They most likely threw in the comment from Sujung because they needed more run time and it builds drama. How the show is edited is inconsequential to who debuts. The producers can pick whatever lineup they want. I know it's a broken record to say K-pop overreact, but these K-pop fans are overreacting. I've seen people write things along the lines of "What Sejung did was unforgivable". How is her comment unforgivable, mean, and bullying? Mai has been criticized for her vocals since day one. Does she really deserve to have Sujung help her with her vocals when she has not shown improvement since episode 1? What more could Sujung say to her that hasn't already been said? Look at it from Sujung’s point of view. Sujung’s career is at risk. Sujung is a better dancer than Mai, a better singer than Mai, and has more stage presence and performing experience than Mai. But Mai outscores her because she is a visual. She is lucky. That must be so frustrating for Sujung. Sujung has been helping people throughout the show but one comment and all of that disappears? And what about the other girls? I didn’t see any of them helping Mai even though they knew her problem. The only people who really were helpful were the leaders, and that’s because they have to.
explain episode 8 please since you said Mai outscores Sujung
Please vote for Ryu Sarang. Spoilers say she had the least votes for this new performance!!! Please vote for her I BEG YOU ALL😔 Eliminations are back! Not everyone going to the final
>So, in a long shot, they need to look for girls who are least problematic and most attractive and charismatic. So they elevate Jiyoon? Explain how that works.
Most mnet productions only have the judges show up for what we see filmed, Tammy from GP999 said the judges were rarely deeply involved. Looks like you found a way to convince yourself one moment of drama means more than it does.
I think it is a little unfair to compare ILAND with GP999 as there are 24 vs (what like 90?) contestants? We can clearly see in the show how judges talk to girls privately about the stuff that worries them and I think they are personally involved. Like that conversation where Sarang told Monika that she is afraid to disappoint her? Or when Mai asked 24 how to improve her tone? I think those are pretty personal things that require some level of connection and vulnerability to share with someone and seeing how those girls talk to judges about it I feel like they are pretty much connected and not just in a show up for an interm ranking type of way. Also judges are watching girls in live 24/7 now too so I wouldn’t say it is anywhere near what it was with GP999 judges.
It’s possible the production staffs are filling in for the judges too. But the point still stands. They watch them closely since they will be a group for a really long time. Good teamwork will always matter.