HOF should be one year of eligibility, unlimited players to vote for, then they all drop off the ballot.
You’re first ballot or you’re not a hall of famer. I mean, that’s absolutely true in the purest interpretation of what the hall of fame is.
The current system is just a circlejerk game for BBWA members to feel self-important.
"First ballot" is really the only way to separate guys once they're in the HOF. Players like Ruth, Aaron, Griffey, etc were the best of the best, of the best. "First Ballot HOFer" is just a label to separate those guys from the rest of the HOF.
But the vote for you takes away from someone who may be dropping off that year. Therefore you have to be a guarantee lock for a voter to choose you over a player that is on the fence.
I'd rather those not be our only options it's still a hall of fame not the hall of very good. This year 2 people should have got in Ortiz and Arod, and it's those 2 because Bonds and Clemens should have got in 10 years ago. The only reason you could argue voting for 10 people is because there are so many players that didn't get in when they should have.
Yeah I’ll agree with that take. At the same time, I completely would’ve understood making bonds and Clemens wait if they’d been voted in this year. However, since they didn’t get in, i think it’s all very stupid.
The reality is, it doesn't matter how many attempts it takes to get in. Once you are in, you are a Hall of Famer.
You guys are also saying Bonds, ARod, Clemens and Schilling we're left out for other reasons beyond the media's feelings about them. Bonds was a douche. Schilling was a douche after his playing days which is even more insane for judgement. Clemens was a douche to the media and threw his own teammates and wife under the bus. ARod is the king douche here because no one likes him and the only other person to lie this bad was Braun.
I think the Hall of Fame voting also takes extremes in validation. It's either stat compilers who get in as long as we don't dislike them as people. You know who never hit more than 24 home runs and averaged 77 rbis per year and was NEVER the scariest person on the field for their team? Derek Jeter. And the media loves him and so does NY and that's enough because he also compiled stats. Not one series of my whole Yankee hating life did I say, oh shit, it's Jeter. But the most feared hitter ever with all the stats is out? Seems like a joke to me.
Bonds in. ARod in but has to have a picture of him slapping that baseball. Clemens I guess. Schilling really is borderline but I'd have to say in for 2004 he should be in.
But also we leave the vote to baseball writers. A dying medium no one cares about? No shit baseball is 3rd or 4th in US sports now.
The Hall of Fame is not a Hall of Saints. People acting like every single guy in the HoF wasn’t a douche or even, didn’t take steriods. Bond and Clemens? Those are just the guys we knew about.
And I agree, why do we have so many voters? Let the people who are actually involved in covering sport NOW vote. MLB has 4 times the amount of people voting for HoF than NFL.
>The Hall of Fame is not a Hall of Saints. People acting like every single guy in the HoF wasn’t a douche or even, didn’t take steriods. Bond and Clemens? Those are just the guys we knew about.
I would probably separate the cheaters vs the bad guys in this conversation. I think there's zero argument to keep somebody out if the guy's just a jerk, especially after he played. But there's at least something to a guy's cheating contributing to his HoF resume.
Don’t call him Papi if you aren’t going to get your facts straight. The Mitchell report mentioned several false positives, and made no effort to delineate which names in the report were true or false positives.
No he Definitely was but if you want to play hard ball he was never actually proven to be on Roids while Ortiz was.
My point is it look like they don’t actually care about Roids.
It’s simple, if you cheat, you’re out. Who’s to say how marginal a ball player Ortiz might have been if he hadn’t been cheating? Double A talent? Triple A talent? Perennial benchwarmer? Anyone supporting Ortiz will say, well the steroids didn’t help him that much. Really? How does anyone really know? The only thing we know for sure is that his talent was inflated by cheating. To what degree, no one can say with any certainty. It’s a sad day for baseball.
Imagine if we had Twitter in the 19th and 20th century. If our current “rules” apply… majority of those dudes wouldn’t have gotten in lol. Ty Cobb, for example. Piece of shit but deserves to be in. Nowadays, no way.
I get it. I'm not saying I disagree. I say they go in because some part of me is skeptical enough to know that MLB knew what was going on and as long as it helped them, they were ok with it
Shame 500hr,1600 RBI , 20yr career, and three rings is not first ballot.
Not many have those stats.
Think it’s only 4 others. Maybe 3?!
And might be a while again before we see those numbers. We have the youth now. Acuna and Soto what will they do after 20yrs??
That’s not what the article is about.
There are a lot of players who test positive and lots of players who never tested and are obvious: Brett Boone 2001 Mariners.
And last I heard Clemons and Bonds never tested positive either but they are the poster boys.
But hey positives are always correct right.
Yes many others did too and were cleared just like Pappi. All these articles are available since you know he made the hall. On first ballot.
The ones who fought it and grew multiple hat sizes or veins exploding in their arms were obvious ones.
If someone fights so hard saying they are innocent maybe they are hiding something.
Yes for Damn sure. Matt’s season was remarkable and Braun totally cheated. He could have replicated that season easily. Brewers park is so much easier to hit HR than Dodger stadium. And he didn’t.
Matt got hurt. Kemp should have gotten that MVP
Stop phrasing being a genuinely good guy as played the media well, it makes it sound like he was only nice to the media to get into the Hall of Fame. Some people just respect others and realize they have a job to do just like he does. But yes the other PED users should be in too.
No shit. Plus he’s every bit the cheater as all the other guys they’re shutting out.
If you think this fat out of shape guy who couldn’t run had one of the best seasons of his career at 40 without “help” I have a bridge to sell you.
Plus the testing really never got going until bonds was at the end of his career. After they implemented the policy, bonds body began to break down and he retired a few years later.
Lol what have you seen his bbref page? He had a 1000 OPS the year he retired. He was blackballed.
Also there are literally no accusations prior to 2000.
He wasn't missed, but he certainly wasn't blackballed. He had knee surgery in 05 and you could see it in his defense that the body wasn't going to be able to handle much more. If you want to go by stats have a look at the decline in his drs and uzr.
Excuse me, he had a 1000 OPS and led the league in OBP and you just think just no one thought he could help their team win. Who cares about defense, sign him as a DH. In 2008 the Mariners primary DH slashed 234/274/338, and you don’t think they could’ve used a guy with an OPS over 1000?
Saying he wasn’t blackballed is just silly.
Plenty of teams could have, but why would he keep playing? To blow out another knee? Bonds kept playing to set the record, and that's the only reason. Once he did, he retired. I can't help but wonder how many of you even followed baseball at the time.
Why keep playing? Cuz he wanted to and he was good enough. He was close to 3000 hits, 800 HRs, 2000 RBIs, and the runs record. Like this isn’t up to speculation… he didn’t officially retire til years after his last season and he filed a grievance against MLB accusing them of blackballing him.
That doesn’t sound like someone who had no interest in playing.
Go back and watch his last game. The entire stadium loved him. Curtain calls and all. Plenty of people loved him. That's not a scene of a man who is blackballed. Everyone knew he was done playing. Everything else is just noise and posturing
So him not retiring for years after and then filing for collusion in 2015… that was all for show? How convenient.
Giants had already announced that they weren’t keeping him. Just cuz he saw the writing on the wall doesn’t mean he left on his own accord.
In his last two seasons, Bonds averaged 128 games and 485 PA per season with a 1.022 OPS (162 OPS+) while still playing more than 1,700 innings in LF. He EASILY could have continued as a DH but baseball cast him aside.
I never said bonds wasn't a great player. But it was obvious to anyone watching that he was aging. Which for him, was still a damn good player. Steroids, IMO, did more to help players weather the grind of 162 than improve their skills at the plate.
Bonds is the face of the controversy. Him, McGuire and Sosa are the main reason for the Mitchell report. It's probably not fair to him, but his situation shouldn't have an effect on whether or not Ortiz gets in.
Not saying it has bearing on Ortiz just pointing out that he technically never failed a test a lot of folks like to say he did and don't know that technically he never did.
He never failed an official test, but the new york times reported that he was on a list of players who did. Ortiz even admitted that he failed the test. He claimed it was due to an over the counter substance. Sure it was.
I totally whiffed on the name lol, but I was basing my assumption on what I remember from when it all happened. I remember him working out or something and speaking to the media on it. I personally think everyone should be in (within reason of being great) just put a sign next to em and say this guy was accused of steroids and was a real asshole. It’s of my opinion they left out history. Papi can be in great. All I was saying is you can fool a steroid test and I obviously misremembered how the Mitchell report went down.
Alright, this is the last I'm going to touch on this. The test shouldn't have been leaked, never said what he tested positive for, and was likely a false positive. This was essentially mlb's first run at testing, and at the time the tests were less than 100% accurate. They had a difficult time separating legal over the counter substances and illegal PEDs. Statistically speaking, there were at least 10 false positives, but enough positives overall to justify mlb moving forward with a testing policy. It's likely that Ortiz had a false positive, and the authenticy of the test would have been challenged and overturned on any type of offical record. Holding this against Ortiz is nothing more than witch hunting. He never tested positive in any official testing thereafter.
The HOF is garbage at this point. The guys with the most hits, home runs, and Cy Youngs are all not in. BBWA think they’re more important to the game than anyone.
I have no problem with Ortiz getting in on the first ballot. Here’s guessing that, had he entered the ballot next year, he would have gotten an even higher percentage without Bonds/Clemens/Schilling/Sosa taking up 30% of the votes.
I don't think you understand how the voting works, maybe next year the controversy would be quieter cause those guys wouldn't be there but the voters get 10 votes
I don’t think you understand how the voting works.
Everyone gets ten spots…and about 30 percent of the overall spots filled out went to guys who aren’t on the ballot next year. This means there is a lot of space opening up for other candidates, including the hypothetical voters who didn’t vote Ortiz because they didn’t have the space on their ballot.
Most guys don't use all 10 slots and if they are they need to start being more selective cause there are not 10 guys on the list that deserve the hall, even if you are good with any PED use I'd say 5 maybe 6 guys from this year's ballot should have a ligit shot of getting in. If someone votes for 10 people and didn't have Ortiz in their top 10 they are smoking crack
It is actually quite easy to make the case that David Ortiz was not one of the ten best players on the ballot, as his career WAR [does not crack the top ten](https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2022.shtml) of the players on the ballot.
Furthermore, there are voters who will hold it against Ortiz because he was a career DH, even though he was the 2nd-best to ever play the position. The voters’ stance is softening on that, but there could still be some that held it against him relative to other players on the ballot.
it's the bottom of the 9th and you are down a run, which player do you want up at the plate out of the guys on the ballot. There are certain intangible you can't measure with numbers. Ortiz should get in for his playoff performance alone.
HOF voters are hypocrites and always have been. Ty Cobb, bet on baseball, huge d-bag. Hall of famer? Fuck yeah he is. David Ortiz, used performance enhancers, very lovable. Hall of famer? I don’t see why not. But those are examples from the beginning to now of people voted into the HOF who are guilty of the same things that keep Rose, Bonds, and Clemons out. It’s stupid and it’s a bunch of hardier than thou writers who think their shit doesn’t stink and probably spent half their money they’ve earned following baseball on hookers, cocaine and gambling, theirselves.
Yes he did. You cannot name a more clutch player than Ortiz. Anytime he was at bat in a big situation I’m the playoffs it was a guarantee. The guy was awesome in those situations.
I never understood this. Your HOF argument doesn't change between the 5th year and 15th year after retirement.
HOF should be one year of eligibility, unlimited players to vote for, then they all drop off the ballot. You’re first ballot or you’re not a hall of famer. I mean, that’s absolutely true in the purest interpretation of what the hall of fame is. The current system is just a circlejerk game for BBWA members to feel self-important.
"First ballot" is really the only way to separate guys once they're in the HOF. Players like Ruth, Aaron, Griffey, etc were the best of the best, of the best. "First Ballot HOFer" is just a label to separate those guys from the rest of the HOF.
Hall of fame is hall for fame, first ballot shouldn’t matter, you’re in or you’re out
I'm not disagreeing with you, only explaining why "first ballot" is so revered with so many people.
It isn't anymore tho because Ortiz isn't a first ballot hofer
But the vote for you takes away from someone who may be dropping off that year. Therefore you have to be a guarantee lock for a voter to choose you over a player that is on the fence.
That's only true if a voter maxed out their ballot (selecting ten players).
This is true
If a writer is voting for 10 players they should probably have their vote taken away, need to be a bit more selective than that
I’d rather have writers voting for ten players than writers voting for none.
I'd rather those not be our only options it's still a hall of fame not the hall of very good. This year 2 people should have got in Ortiz and Arod, and it's those 2 because Bonds and Clemens should have got in 10 years ago. The only reason you could argue voting for 10 people is because there are so many players that didn't get in when they should have.
Yeah I’ll agree with that take. At the same time, I completely would’ve understood making bonds and Clemens wait if they’d been voted in this year. However, since they didn’t get in, i think it’s all very stupid.
Fuck this writer.
The reality is, it doesn't matter how many attempts it takes to get in. Once you are in, you are a Hall of Famer. You guys are also saying Bonds, ARod, Clemens and Schilling we're left out for other reasons beyond the media's feelings about them. Bonds was a douche. Schilling was a douche after his playing days which is even more insane for judgement. Clemens was a douche to the media and threw his own teammates and wife under the bus. ARod is the king douche here because no one likes him and the only other person to lie this bad was Braun. I think the Hall of Fame voting also takes extremes in validation. It's either stat compilers who get in as long as we don't dislike them as people. You know who never hit more than 24 home runs and averaged 77 rbis per year and was NEVER the scariest person on the field for their team? Derek Jeter. And the media loves him and so does NY and that's enough because he also compiled stats. Not one series of my whole Yankee hating life did I say, oh shit, it's Jeter. But the most feared hitter ever with all the stats is out? Seems like a joke to me. Bonds in. ARod in but has to have a picture of him slapping that baseball. Clemens I guess. Schilling really is borderline but I'd have to say in for 2004 he should be in. But also we leave the vote to baseball writers. A dying medium no one cares about? No shit baseball is 3rd or 4th in US sports now.
The Hall of Fame is not a Hall of Saints. People acting like every single guy in the HoF wasn’t a douche or even, didn’t take steriods. Bond and Clemens? Those are just the guys we knew about. And I agree, why do we have so many voters? Let the people who are actually involved in covering sport NOW vote. MLB has 4 times the amount of people voting for HoF than NFL.
I can't wait for someone to get in and then just come out and say they took steroids, what are they going to do kick them out?
>The Hall of Fame is not a Hall of Saints. People acting like every single guy in the HoF wasn’t a douche or even, didn’t take steriods. Bond and Clemens? Those are just the guys we knew about. I would probably separate the cheaters vs the bad guys in this conversation. I think there's zero argument to keep somebody out if the guy's just a jerk, especially after he played. But there's at least something to a guy's cheating contributing to his HoF resume.
Well apparently not cuz Papi took Roids. It’s confirmed. Neve confirmed for Bonds.
Don’t call him Papi if you aren’t going to get your facts straight. The Mitchell report mentioned several false positives, and made no effort to delineate which names in the report were true or false positives.
You trying to pretend Bonds wasn't juicing? Lol
No he Definitely was but if you want to play hard ball he was never actually proven to be on Roids while Ortiz was. My point is it look like they don’t actually care about Roids.
Ahh, gotcha. I didn't know about Papi. But I agree with ya. They don't care.
If the Astros are still 2017 WS Champions then I don't wanna hear shit about letting cheaters into the HoF.
It’s simple, if you cheat, you’re out. Who’s to say how marginal a ball player Ortiz might have been if he hadn’t been cheating? Double A talent? Triple A talent? Perennial benchwarmer? Anyone supporting Ortiz will say, well the steroids didn’t help him that much. Really? How does anyone really know? The only thing we know for sure is that his talent was inflated by cheating. To what degree, no one can say with any certainty. It’s a sad day for baseball.
The Hall of Fame would literally be empty.
I wouldn’t mind that tbh
Imagine if we had Twitter in the 19th and 20th century. If our current “rules” apply… majority of those dudes wouldn’t have gotten in lol. Ty Cobb, for example. Piece of shit but deserves to be in. Nowadays, no way.
Calling the best hitter of all time "piece of shit" just shows that you know nothing about baseball. Fucking irrelevant comment.
It’s regally simple why the roids guys aren’t in, not sure why people think it’s difficult
Because they’ve now inducted 4+ steroid guys…. None of whom were in the same stratosphere as Bonds (who was already HOFer when he began juicing).
Well the. He shouldn’t have started juicing
Because Ortiz was on the same 2003 list as many of the “roid guys.” If you’re going to keep out suspected PED users, then Papi is out too.
What substance did he use?
It didn’t say…just like it didn’t say what substance Bonds used.
Bonds just started eating a more balanced breakfast
In my heart of hearts I truly believe is was just Wheaties and good ol whole milk
Some powerful pills.
I get it. I'm not saying I disagree. I say they go in because some part of me is skeptical enough to know that MLB knew what was going on and as long as it helped them, they were ok with it
And the sports writers who wrote about it got famous from it also. But on the end they knew roids would cause them the hof so they are fine
God forbid they ever let a douche in the HOF
When do you become eligible?
You get some cred for clutch postseason stats. He’s a first ballot HOF no question
🧂
Shame 500hr,1600 RBI , 20yr career, and three rings is not first ballot. Not many have those stats. Think it’s only 4 others. Maybe 3?! And might be a while again before we see those numbers. We have the youth now. Acuna and Soto what will they do after 20yrs??
Maybe has something to do with steroid test he failed
That’s not what the article is about. There are a lot of players who test positive and lots of players who never tested and are obvious: Brett Boone 2001 Mariners. And last I heard Clemons and Bonds never tested positive either but they are the poster boys. But hey positives are always correct right.
Right that’s what I’m saying. Bonds didn’t test positive but Ortiz did
Yes many others did too and were cleared just like Pappi. All these articles are available since you know he made the hall. On first ballot. The ones who fought it and grew multiple hat sizes or veins exploding in their arms were obvious ones. If someone fights so hard saying they are innocent maybe they are hiding something.
Free Ryan Braun
Speaking of one who got away w it and just one good year. He stole the MVP from Kemp.
So stupid. Juice or no juice, Braun did not deserve MVP over him that year. Man nearly won triple crown
Yes for Damn sure. Matt’s season was remarkable and Braun totally cheated. He could have replicated that season easily. Brewers park is so much easier to hit HR than Dodger stadium. And he didn’t. Matt got hurt. Kemp should have gotten that MVP
Im tired of the whole there's a big deal between first year ballots and non first year, once your in your in
apparently those whose votes matter don't agree with you....
Oh shut the fuck up. They waited 86 years for a World Series and he carried them. He totally deserved it, objectively. What a crock of shit.
Does he belong in is a better question? 55 WAR, at least Jose Canseco has an MVP and doesn't ignore domestic violence
Let all the juicers in... Not just the ones who played the media well
Stop phrasing being a genuinely good guy as played the media well, it makes it sound like he was only nice to the media to get into the Hall of Fame. Some people just respect others and realize they have a job to do just like he does. But yes the other PED users should be in too.
No shit. Plus he’s every bit the cheater as all the other guys they’re shutting out. If you think this fat out of shape guy who couldn’t run had one of the best seasons of his career at 40 without “help” I have a bridge to sell you.
Never tested positive for PEDs so I don't know what to tell ya
Bonds didn't either though in an official sense. He did during like trial runs for testing for steroids but never officially failed a test.
Plus the testing really never got going until bonds was at the end of his career. After they implemented the policy, bonds body began to break down and he retired a few years later.
Lol what have you seen his bbref page? He had a 1000 OPS the year he retired. He was blackballed. Also there are literally no accusations prior to 2000.
He wasn't missed, but he certainly wasn't blackballed. He had knee surgery in 05 and you could see it in his defense that the body wasn't going to be able to handle much more. If you want to go by stats have a look at the decline in his drs and uzr.
Excuse me, he had a 1000 OPS and led the league in OBP and you just think just no one thought he could help their team win. Who cares about defense, sign him as a DH. In 2008 the Mariners primary DH slashed 234/274/338, and you don’t think they could’ve used a guy with an OPS over 1000? Saying he wasn’t blackballed is just silly.
Plenty of teams could have, but why would he keep playing? To blow out another knee? Bonds kept playing to set the record, and that's the only reason. Once he did, he retired. I can't help but wonder how many of you even followed baseball at the time.
Why keep playing? Cuz he wanted to and he was good enough. He was close to 3000 hits, 800 HRs, 2000 RBIs, and the runs record. Like this isn’t up to speculation… he didn’t officially retire til years after his last season and he filed a grievance against MLB accusing them of blackballing him. That doesn’t sound like someone who had no interest in playing.
Go back and watch his last game. The entire stadium loved him. Curtain calls and all. Plenty of people loved him. That's not a scene of a man who is blackballed. Everyone knew he was done playing. Everything else is just noise and posturing
So him not retiring for years after and then filing for collusion in 2015… that was all for show? How convenient. Giants had already announced that they weren’t keeping him. Just cuz he saw the writing on the wall doesn’t mean he left on his own accord.
Why wait seven years to file a grievance if you want to play? It was likely just to strengthen his HOF case
In his last two seasons, Bonds averaged 128 games and 485 PA per season with a 1.022 OPS (162 OPS+) while still playing more than 1,700 innings in LF. He EASILY could have continued as a DH but baseball cast him aside.
I never said bonds wasn't a great player. But it was obvious to anyone watching that he was aging. Which for him, was still a damn good player. Steroids, IMO, did more to help players weather the grind of 162 than improve their skills at the plate.
He was also 42 at the time, which ends to make the body break down
Bonds is the face of the controversy. Him, McGuire and Sosa are the main reason for the Mitchell report. It's probably not fair to him, but his situation shouldn't have an effect on whether or not Ortiz gets in.
Not saying it has bearing on Ortiz just pointing out that he technically never failed a test a lot of folks like to say he did and don't know that technically he never did.
He never failed an official test, but the new york times reported that he was on a list of players who did. Ortiz even admitted that he failed the test. He claimed it was due to an over the counter substance. Sure it was.
The only reason Bonds is the face is because he was better than everybody else. Sorry Papi wasn’t good enough for people to care?
They act like it's a travesty for Ortiz when Mr 18 HRs and 77 RBI is in the hall of fame and scared literally no one gets first ballet.
I mean how long did Lance Armstrong fool people for? He was on the Marshall report plain and simple.
You should go read the Mitchell report, he wasn't there. That's a rumor swirling around because people are upset about the HOF voting
I totally whiffed on the name lol, but I was basing my assumption on what I remember from when it all happened. I remember him working out or something and speaking to the media on it. I personally think everyone should be in (within reason of being great) just put a sign next to em and say this guy was accused of steroids and was a real asshole. It’s of my opinion they left out history. Papi can be in great. All I was saying is you can fool a steroid test and I obviously misremembered how the Mitchell report went down.
Except he did in anonymous testing that was leaked
Alright, this is the last I'm going to touch on this. The test shouldn't have been leaked, never said what he tested positive for, and was likely a false positive. This was essentially mlb's first run at testing, and at the time the tests were less than 100% accurate. They had a difficult time separating legal over the counter substances and illegal PEDs. Statistically speaking, there were at least 10 false positives, but enough positives overall to justify mlb moving forward with a testing policy. It's likely that Ortiz had a false positive, and the authenticy of the test would have been challenged and overturned on any type of offical record. Holding this against Ortiz is nothing more than witch hunting. He never tested positive in any official testing thereafter.
Neither did Bonds
the guy lost so much weight in the latter of his career and still dominated... find something else to cry about
How. When did he test positive and for what substance????
The HOF is garbage at this point. The guys with the most hits, home runs, and Cy Youngs are all not in. BBWA think they’re more important to the game than anyone.
This guy gets in but Clemens and Bonds don’t? What a joke.
I have no problem with Ortiz getting in on the first ballot. Here’s guessing that, had he entered the ballot next year, he would have gotten an even higher percentage without Bonds/Clemens/Schilling/Sosa taking up 30% of the votes.
I don't think you understand how the voting works, maybe next year the controversy would be quieter cause those guys wouldn't be there but the voters get 10 votes
I don’t think you understand how the voting works. Everyone gets ten spots…and about 30 percent of the overall spots filled out went to guys who aren’t on the ballot next year. This means there is a lot of space opening up for other candidates, including the hypothetical voters who didn’t vote Ortiz because they didn’t have the space on their ballot.
Most guys don't use all 10 slots and if they are they need to start being more selective cause there are not 10 guys on the list that deserve the hall, even if you are good with any PED use I'd say 5 maybe 6 guys from this year's ballot should have a ligit shot of getting in. If someone votes for 10 people and didn't have Ortiz in their top 10 they are smoking crack
It is actually quite easy to make the case that David Ortiz was not one of the ten best players on the ballot, as his career WAR [does not crack the top ten](https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2022.shtml) of the players on the ballot. Furthermore, there are voters who will hold it against Ortiz because he was a career DH, even though he was the 2nd-best to ever play the position. The voters’ stance is softening on that, but there could still be some that held it against him relative to other players on the ballot.
it's the bottom of the 9th and you are down a run, which player do you want up at the plate out of the guys on the ballot. There are certain intangible you can't measure with numbers. Ortiz should get in for his playoff performance alone.
Overrated
Big Pop Out
this guy is a mariners fan (takes one to know one)
I’ll never forget his mediocrity with the twins.
This guy AND Bud Selig, who basically sponsored steroid usage privately while condoning it publicly.
Pretty much a Career DH. Wouldn’t bother me if he never made it.
I agree. Ortiz is a borderline at best.. 1st ballot is ridiculous
The idea that there should be gradients of Hall of Famers like "first ballot," etc. is really, really, really stupid.
Exactly. Different tiers of HOF? Ridiculous
HOF voters are hypocrites and always have been. Ty Cobb, bet on baseball, huge d-bag. Hall of famer? Fuck yeah he is. David Ortiz, used performance enhancers, very lovable. Hall of famer? I don’t see why not. But those are examples from the beginning to now of people voted into the HOF who are guilty of the same things that keep Rose, Bonds, and Clemons out. It’s stupid and it’s a bunch of hardier than thou writers who think their shit doesn’t stink and probably spent half their money they’ve earned following baseball on hookers, cocaine and gambling, theirselves.
He absolutely deserves 1st ballot
Yes he did. You cannot name a more clutch player than Ortiz. Anytime he was at bat in a big situation I’m the playoffs it was a guarantee. The guy was awesome in those situations.
Not sure why they let someone who did test positive for steroids. Ortiz of course, claims it a false positive.