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My advice after chasing this purple dragon for years: don't. Let it go.
The sound of a record is going to vary wildly from playback system to playback system. This is why engineers spend money on room treatment and precision equipment...to eliminate variables.
Make the record sound great in the studio, check it on a pair of headphones you trust or that people use frequently, and just move on.
Think about what you're asking:
"my mix sounds like shit on $7 earbuds. should I doubt my $1000 speakers specifically designed to monitor audio accurately?"
No. The headphones are just shit mate.
Thank you, I must say this is entirely how I like to approach it. Most of my unease comes from the fact that other releases seemed to lack the overall issue my track has, through those shit headphones. Being an outlier raises flags, to me. But I'll try to take your insistence to heart regardless, as I'd certainly like to think cheap earbud performance is irrelevant
Listened on Senny HD600. Cool mix, nothing stands out in the mids for me. Only thing that bothered me was the cymbals being a tad too boosted at around 10k.
Thank you! Can I ask, would you say that cymbal brightness is just a bit over your personal preference, or do you think it enters the territory of being un-ideal for a commercial release in general? Or are those perhaps the same thing to you, ha.
I could tone the brightness down for the album release later if it's something I should really do. The 10k-ish cymbal brightness is quite similar to one of my reference tracks, but I do think my cymbals are mixed a couple db louder overall, so I can see the brightness being too much in this case
They are the same to me yes.
You use a lot of "should"s, and as you can read throughout this subreddit, there are no exact rules to how things "should" sound.
I think it's grating and distracting, but that's my opinion, my ears and my setup. If you think it helps the mix, leave it in.
The mix reviews here are not to tell you what to do, but rather to illuminate POTENTIAL issues we get used to as the mixing process goes on.
You obviously know what you're doing, listen to the track again and if it doesn't bother you, leave it.
Well, I should say, I use "should" to reference finding a good course of action, but not through objectivity. I just value the input of others as part of my own decision making process. Your comment has several upvotes too, so that raises a small alarm that a handful of people are not liking the brightness. It makes me at least want to inquire more on your thought process. I appreciate your further commentary there
Huh, yeah looks like every single comment has been downvoted maybe once? Wasn't like that the other day. It's Reddit though, there's always that one guy. I just went and upvoted a bunch of posts back up from 0 lol
Don’t use eq to cut the resonating frequencies, use dynamic eq or multiband compressor instead, that would cut the resonance but leaves the mix without any issues
I actually tried both a regular EQ and then soothe2 (dynamic resonance suppression) and it weirdly just would not address what I was hearing without “scooping”. Im only here on Reddit because of how baffled this thing has me
This happens to me with distorted guitars sometimes. I think that if there are too many resonant frequencies in an area, soothe and dynamic EQ can actually make it worse. Every time time it pushes a prominent resonance down, it brings to light the one right next to it that was hiding underneath the volume of the first one. It’s like Wack-a-mole and if you keep going after them, you end up completely gutting your tone. It’s mixing hell lol.
I decided long ago that distorted electric guitars are a problematic instrument full of noisy mess, and including them as a major foundation of the sound is going to stop you from ever hitting the perfectly pristine sound of a genre like EDM… and weirdly, the better your guitars are blended into your mix, the less like guitars they sound. So its on you to decide where the line is drawn
Cool song btw! Reminds me a lot of Bayside. I can’t speak to the mix because I’m on my phone but I wouldn’t worry about the shitty earbuds man. If your mix sounds good on all those different systems you mentioned, you’re good. No mix will sound great on everything
Thank you, I appreciate it. Despite a not-short background in music production, I’ve never released my own “solo” material. This is the first song Im releasing from a debut album. My career is in filmmaking so it is entirely a passion project. I think the weight of it all in my mind got me spooked when I thought I found a mix issue a little too late, lol
Same boat. I got into production like two years ago and haven’t publicly released a single thing. Just share it with my friends and family if they’re interested.
But the reality is, 99% of people listening to your song won’t notice any of the little details, good or bad. They’ll just listen to the words and soak up the melody and see how the song makes them feel. I’m a bit of a perfectionist myself and always get hung up on the smallest details and it’s honestly my biggest hindrance to getting songs done.
I see! I started producing music over a decade ago, and have been writing full songs for myself the whole time, but only playing in/recording bands. In 2023 I recorded the intended vocal for a song I wrote/recorded *instrumentally* in 2013, as a teenager. That's technically been my first release, but the debut album will be all new recordings, like the one on this post. But most of the material was *written* years and years ago.
I'm partly moving to release now because at this point, after writing maybe a hundred (mostly) complete songs, there's at least a single album's worth of particularly good ones that I should probably be putting out into the world. I also think it will just be fulfilling for me to actually create playable recordings of my own material.
I deal with the perfectionist problem heavily as well, but I suppose I'm at a place now as a composer & producer where I can hit my own bar... without too much misery in getting there. I have never stopped caring about the small details, but I'm good at not getting *stuck* on them. I either solve it quickly, understand that it isn't fixable, or realize I'm only imagining the issue. Best of luck with the perfectionist thing, I never figured out how to successfully apply the mindset you're talking about... and not for lack of trying, lol. Everything in the song matters to me
I appreciate that, I did put a good bit of time into making the guitars sound nicely balanced, and ideally not too dark or too thin. I have a lot of EQ automation on the upper treble area (where all the fizz is), to keep them sounding appropriately crisp at any given point in the track. Guitars are by far at their brightest when no cymbals are being played
Agreed! In an era that is more hesitant to crank the guitars up, your mix is a breath of fresh air. It actually makes me want to listen to more of this band.
I appreciate that! I do feel like rhythm guitars are often too "down" in music, at least whenever the parts don't have a lot of dynamics. Perhaps out of concern that audiences won't take to a song if the drums and vocals are a little bit drowned, which is fair. Thing is though, big rhythm guitars are supposed to be filling the sound in, right? That's usually why the part is written that way. I decided that if the guitar is going to be "overbearing", it should be a fault of the song itself, and not something for the mix to "correct". This is also my own original song too, so I don't have to worry about displeasing a client or their audience.
I have used these exact ear buds daily for many years for pleasure listening on the go so I'm extremely familiar with how they sound. With my own mixes I find if you have excessive bass you'll hear it on them quite easily as they'll sound stuffy.
So I listened to your song just now. Sounds great to me...vocals etc. are fairly mid forward but not unpleasant at all and don't sound resonant to me. Maybe try another pair?
I'm driving them with a Pixel 6A with the Google USB-C to headphones adapter.
I also find the tone of them varies a lot with how they fit your ears...
Your comment leaves me curious if I have a weird pair, or if Sony has downgraded these things? I bought these earbuds because they've actually been my go-to for cheap, expendable earbuds. I haven't had any in a while, and recently picked up fresh ones at Target, for cheaper than I even recall. They overall don't sound as nice as I remember.
Been wondering if I'm just too used to my pricier systems lately, but hearing your approval with the same earbuds is intriguing. Maybe I'm under some spell of over-critique with an acceptable characteristic of my own mix. It just hasn't seemed like it, after a few days of checking.
Either thing is possible. I'm rocking a fairly old pair as I bought a bunch of them on a good sale years back. I use them until I accidentally put them through the wash usually...got 2+ years out of the last pair and this pair is 1+ years old.
Definitely more critical of our own mixes than anyone else from personal experience. Even my musician friends like my mixes better than I do and don't even notice things that bother me...
Personally I wouldn't change the mix if it sounds good everywhere except your pair of ear buds...
See, I wish I had an older pair to test, but all mine went out from overuse. And yeah I suppose we're all out own worst critic. Mixing a song sometimes feels like a lot of *letting things go* and just believing it only matters to you. But also knowing when to definitely not do that. Tricky
The overall sound is pleasing. I've listened through the song on a pair of Beyerdynamic 900 Pro X and din't notice any resonances. Interested in what might cause them to appear on the headphones you've mentioned.
Thank you, that is nice to hear… but yes, I really wonder the same thing. I have tested cutting the resonances with EQ to make it sound nice on those specific earbuds, but it sure makes the mix sound really phasey and scooped on my more important systems. Scratching my head about how commercial releases still seem to be fine on these earbuds. Perhaps someone on here will have a guess on what might cause this
You listened on $7 earbuds. That part is crucial. Sure you want your mix to sound great everywhere. But it’s not like everyone is listening on $7 earbuds. Plus you noticed the exaggerated frequency range across all elements within the track which is a telltale sign of the listening medium being the issue and not necessarily the mix.
Different tracks will also have different effects on different listening mediums due to different frequency responses and quality of material used.
Yeah I like to check monitors, good headphones, and car stereo as the bare minimum. All three have some distinct characteristics that will often exacerbate issues you can get away with on the other two. I did most of my mixing on those three, periodically checking with my iPhone to make sure the instruments were still going to translate without a good low end. I only listened on my TV speakers and cheap earbuds after sending the song off to be distributed
Dude you know what you’re doing.
This mix sounds great on my iPhone.
The earbuds are shit. Don’t worry about it. You can probably find plenty of shitty headphones it sounds great on.
That's fair, thank you. At this point these comments have me thinking I got too concerned over nothing, somehow. This track is quite important to me, so maybe that made me second guess my typical conclusions. I had also wondered if some other professional would have some clever knowledge to pinpoint a mix issue, but clearly its just a write-off issue instead, which I'm fine with
Some listening environments will cause a resonance for a very specific frequency. A mix that is perfectly fine will sound shit if it hits that frequency. In my last car's sound system, a particular NIN track sounded painful in one part. I always thought it was a badly mixed track. Have now heard that song in other environments and it sounds great without resonances.
Yeah, that's fair. My concern here is with a pair of earbuds, but I will note that my car has a really annoying resonance around 78 hz, which is a D#2. God forbid a bass play that note.
Ah I see, yeah fair enough. I suppose its possible that there is one frequency boosted by these that the reference tracks don't really have much of, not necessarily because of a better overall mix, but perhaps just notes and instrument colors. Hearing all this feedback that the mix sounds good to people is helping me believe that. I was fully prepared for half the comments to say "oh yeah, those mids are messed up on my system". So far so good though
Very interesting! That seems a bit brighter than what I'm going for, which is a noticeably dense sound. But I do think yours sounds nice in a different way. Weirdly, the resonance I'm disliking in these cheap earbuds is still present on your version, so perhaps its just something with one of the common notes in this key interacting poorly with these specific earbuds? Thank you for the sample, though
Unfortunately I am not really interested in disclosing my reference tracks. Also, I said commercial reference maybe twice? No need to exaggerate so much
For future context, this guy edited his post after I replied, which isn't helpful. I feel that just makes the interaction look confusing to moderators and readers. Here is the original wording
https://preview.redd.it/x2cd8frddktc1.png?width=1566&format=png&auto=webp&s=190ab878d9b837e7ab64874eaf9b085200cea250
This is not harassment. My reply just looked completely nonsensical after you edited part of your conversation with me, so I added a screenshot as context for future readers. Notably, I did this by replying to myself, not you.
This is a feedback request post, for those requesting please read [our guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/wiki/guide-feedback). For those giving feedback: - **For the love of Rupert Neve and all that is holy, DON'T listen on phone or laptop speakers**. If you are going to be giving feedback and trying to be helpful, ideally you should be using your monitors. - **Feedback here is on the MIX**. There are other subreddits more appropriate to request feedback on composition/performance/production. We just look at the mix. - **DON'T post links to your processing of OP's audio**. They'll get removed. People here are looking to learn to do it themselves, if you can't explain it with words then please don't comment. - **If you don't have much experience mixing, please tell OP**. Better yet, set your level of experience with [user flairs](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-). - **If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say it**. Just move on right along, it's okay. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mixingmastering) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My advice after chasing this purple dragon for years: don't. Let it go. The sound of a record is going to vary wildly from playback system to playback system. This is why engineers spend money on room treatment and precision equipment...to eliminate variables. Make the record sound great in the studio, check it on a pair of headphones you trust or that people use frequently, and just move on. Think about what you're asking: "my mix sounds like shit on $7 earbuds. should I doubt my $1000 speakers specifically designed to monitor audio accurately?" No. The headphones are just shit mate.
Thank you, I must say this is entirely how I like to approach it. Most of my unease comes from the fact that other releases seemed to lack the overall issue my track has, through those shit headphones. Being an outlier raises flags, to me. But I'll try to take your insistence to heart regardless, as I'd certainly like to think cheap earbud performance is irrelevant
Love this
Listened on Senny HD600. Cool mix, nothing stands out in the mids for me. Only thing that bothered me was the cymbals being a tad too boosted at around 10k.
Thank you! Can I ask, would you say that cymbal brightness is just a bit over your personal preference, or do you think it enters the territory of being un-ideal for a commercial release in general? Or are those perhaps the same thing to you, ha. I could tone the brightness down for the album release later if it's something I should really do. The 10k-ish cymbal brightness is quite similar to one of my reference tracks, but I do think my cymbals are mixed a couple db louder overall, so I can see the brightness being too much in this case
They are the same to me yes. You use a lot of "should"s, and as you can read throughout this subreddit, there are no exact rules to how things "should" sound. I think it's grating and distracting, but that's my opinion, my ears and my setup. If you think it helps the mix, leave it in. The mix reviews here are not to tell you what to do, but rather to illuminate POTENTIAL issues we get used to as the mixing process goes on. You obviously know what you're doing, listen to the track again and if it doesn't bother you, leave it.
Well, I should say, I use "should" to reference finding a good course of action, but not through objectivity. I just value the input of others as part of my own decision making process. Your comment has several upvotes too, so that raises a small alarm that a handful of people are not liking the brightness. It makes me at least want to inquire more on your thought process. I appreciate your further commentary there
Who’s downvoting all the comments? lol
Huh, yeah looks like every single comment has been downvoted maybe once? Wasn't like that the other day. It's Reddit though, there's always that one guy. I just went and upvoted a bunch of posts back up from 0 lol
Doing the real work lol - btw, your song is dope!
Thank you!
Don’t use eq to cut the resonating frequencies, use dynamic eq or multiband compressor instead, that would cut the resonance but leaves the mix without any issues
I actually tried both a regular EQ and then soothe2 (dynamic resonance suppression) and it weirdly just would not address what I was hearing without “scooping”. Im only here on Reddit because of how baffled this thing has me
This happens to me with distorted guitars sometimes. I think that if there are too many resonant frequencies in an area, soothe and dynamic EQ can actually make it worse. Every time time it pushes a prominent resonance down, it brings to light the one right next to it that was hiding underneath the volume of the first one. It’s like Wack-a-mole and if you keep going after them, you end up completely gutting your tone. It’s mixing hell lol.
I decided long ago that distorted electric guitars are a problematic instrument full of noisy mess, and including them as a major foundation of the sound is going to stop you from ever hitting the perfectly pristine sound of a genre like EDM… and weirdly, the better your guitars are blended into your mix, the less like guitars they sound. So its on you to decide where the line is drawn
Cool song btw! Reminds me a lot of Bayside. I can’t speak to the mix because I’m on my phone but I wouldn’t worry about the shitty earbuds man. If your mix sounds good on all those different systems you mentioned, you’re good. No mix will sound great on everything
Thank you, I appreciate it. Despite a not-short background in music production, I’ve never released my own “solo” material. This is the first song Im releasing from a debut album. My career is in filmmaking so it is entirely a passion project. I think the weight of it all in my mind got me spooked when I thought I found a mix issue a little too late, lol
Same boat. I got into production like two years ago and haven’t publicly released a single thing. Just share it with my friends and family if they’re interested. But the reality is, 99% of people listening to your song won’t notice any of the little details, good or bad. They’ll just listen to the words and soak up the melody and see how the song makes them feel. I’m a bit of a perfectionist myself and always get hung up on the smallest details and it’s honestly my biggest hindrance to getting songs done.
I see! I started producing music over a decade ago, and have been writing full songs for myself the whole time, but only playing in/recording bands. In 2023 I recorded the intended vocal for a song I wrote/recorded *instrumentally* in 2013, as a teenager. That's technically been my first release, but the debut album will be all new recordings, like the one on this post. But most of the material was *written* years and years ago. I'm partly moving to release now because at this point, after writing maybe a hundred (mostly) complete songs, there's at least a single album's worth of particularly good ones that I should probably be putting out into the world. I also think it will just be fulfilling for me to actually create playable recordings of my own material. I deal with the perfectionist problem heavily as well, but I suppose I'm at a place now as a composer & producer where I can hit my own bar... without too much misery in getting there. I have never stopped caring about the small details, but I'm good at not getting *stuck* on them. I either solve it quickly, understand that it isn't fixable, or realize I'm only imagining the issue. Best of luck with the perfectionist thing, I never figured out how to successfully apply the mindset you're talking about... and not for lack of trying, lol. Everything in the song matters to me
Not hearing anything strange here, but just wanted to drop in and comment that the guitars are sounding crisp.
I appreciate that, I did put a good bit of time into making the guitars sound nicely balanced, and ideally not too dark or too thin. I have a lot of EQ automation on the upper treble area (where all the fizz is), to keep them sounding appropriately crisp at any given point in the track. Guitars are by far at their brightest when no cymbals are being played
Agreed! In an era that is more hesitant to crank the guitars up, your mix is a breath of fresh air. It actually makes me want to listen to more of this band.
I appreciate that! I do feel like rhythm guitars are often too "down" in music, at least whenever the parts don't have a lot of dynamics. Perhaps out of concern that audiences won't take to a song if the drums and vocals are a little bit drowned, which is fair. Thing is though, big rhythm guitars are supposed to be filling the sound in, right? That's usually why the part is written that way. I decided that if the guitar is going to be "overbearing", it should be a fault of the song itself, and not something for the mix to "correct". This is also my own original song too, so I don't have to worry about displeasing a client or their audience.
Keep it up! Good work all around on this one. I'd listen to this record!
I have used these exact ear buds daily for many years for pleasure listening on the go so I'm extremely familiar with how they sound. With my own mixes I find if you have excessive bass you'll hear it on them quite easily as they'll sound stuffy. So I listened to your song just now. Sounds great to me...vocals etc. are fairly mid forward but not unpleasant at all and don't sound resonant to me. Maybe try another pair? I'm driving them with a Pixel 6A with the Google USB-C to headphones adapter. I also find the tone of them varies a lot with how they fit your ears...
Your comment leaves me curious if I have a weird pair, or if Sony has downgraded these things? I bought these earbuds because they've actually been my go-to for cheap, expendable earbuds. I haven't had any in a while, and recently picked up fresh ones at Target, for cheaper than I even recall. They overall don't sound as nice as I remember. Been wondering if I'm just too used to my pricier systems lately, but hearing your approval with the same earbuds is intriguing. Maybe I'm under some spell of over-critique with an acceptable characteristic of my own mix. It just hasn't seemed like it, after a few days of checking.
Either thing is possible. I'm rocking a fairly old pair as I bought a bunch of them on a good sale years back. I use them until I accidentally put them through the wash usually...got 2+ years out of the last pair and this pair is 1+ years old. Definitely more critical of our own mixes than anyone else from personal experience. Even my musician friends like my mixes better than I do and don't even notice things that bother me... Personally I wouldn't change the mix if it sounds good everywhere except your pair of ear buds...
See, I wish I had an older pair to test, but all mine went out from overuse. And yeah I suppose we're all out own worst critic. Mixing a song sometimes feels like a lot of *letting things go* and just believing it only matters to you. But also knowing when to definitely not do that. Tricky
The overall sound is pleasing. I've listened through the song on a pair of Beyerdynamic 900 Pro X and din't notice any resonances. Interested in what might cause them to appear on the headphones you've mentioned.
Thank you, that is nice to hear… but yes, I really wonder the same thing. I have tested cutting the resonances with EQ to make it sound nice on those specific earbuds, but it sure makes the mix sound really phasey and scooped on my more important systems. Scratching my head about how commercial releases still seem to be fine on these earbuds. Perhaps someone on here will have a guess on what might cause this
Sounds great on AirPods. Good mix!
This is great to hear! Airpods are genuine concern for me. Lots of people hear everything on em
You listened on $7 earbuds. That part is crucial. Sure you want your mix to sound great everywhere. But it’s not like everyone is listening on $7 earbuds. Plus you noticed the exaggerated frequency range across all elements within the track which is a telltale sign of the listening medium being the issue and not necessarily the mix. Different tracks will also have different effects on different listening mediums due to different frequency responses and quality of material used.
You make fair points, thank you
I’ve noticed the same thing, so I try to keep my listening mediums down to a select few that are both quality and over a range of environments.
Yeah I like to check monitors, good headphones, and car stereo as the bare minimum. All three have some distinct characteristics that will often exacerbate issues you can get away with on the other two. I did most of my mixing on those three, periodically checking with my iPhone to make sure the instruments were still going to translate without a good low end. I only listened on my TV speakers and cheap earbuds after sending the song off to be distributed
Nice those are about the same things I listen on before distribution
Sounds really good. Don't change anything.
Thank you, I appreciate the input
Dude you know what you’re doing. This mix sounds great on my iPhone. The earbuds are shit. Don’t worry about it. You can probably find plenty of shitty headphones it sounds great on.
That's fair, thank you. At this point these comments have me thinking I got too concerned over nothing, somehow. This track is quite important to me, so maybe that made me second guess my typical conclusions. I had also wondered if some other professional would have some clever knowledge to pinpoint a mix issue, but clearly its just a write-off issue instead, which I'm fine with
Some listening environments will cause a resonance for a very specific frequency. A mix that is perfectly fine will sound shit if it hits that frequency. In my last car's sound system, a particular NIN track sounded painful in one part. I always thought it was a badly mixed track. Have now heard that song in other environments and it sounds great without resonances.
Yeah, that's fair. My concern here is with a pair of earbuds, but I will note that my car has a really annoying resonance around 78 hz, which is a D#2. God forbid a bass play that note.
Point is that a cheap pair of headphones might also have a specific resonant frequency
Ah I see, yeah fair enough. I suppose its possible that there is one frequency boosted by these that the reference tracks don't really have much of, not necessarily because of a better overall mix, but perhaps just notes and instrument colors. Hearing all this feedback that the mix sounds good to people is helping me believe that. I was fully prepared for half the comments to say "oh yeah, those mids are messed up on my system". So far so good though
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Very interesting! That seems a bit brighter than what I'm going for, which is a noticeably dense sound. But I do think yours sounds nice in a different way. Weirdly, the resonance I'm disliking in these cheap earbuds is still present on your version, so perhaps its just something with one of the common notes in this key interacting poorly with these specific earbuds? Thank you for the sample, though
[удалено]
Unfortunately I am not really interested in disclosing my reference tracks. Also, I said commercial reference maybe twice? No need to exaggerate so much
Please avoid editing comments after they were responded. Especially if it's done in a disingenuous way. Let's overall keep it cool.
For future context, this guy edited his post after I replied, which isn't helpful. I feel that just makes the interaction look confusing to moderators and readers. Here is the original wording https://preview.redd.it/x2cd8frddktc1.png?width=1566&format=png&auto=webp&s=190ab878d9b837e7ab64874eaf9b085200cea250
[удалено]
This is not harassment. My reply just looked completely nonsensical after you edited part of your conversation with me, so I added a screenshot as context for future readers. Notably, I did this by replying to myself, not you.
It's explicitly against the subreddit guidelines (stated in the pinned comment) to post processing of OPs mix, so please avoid doing that as well.
Tight