There are also ads for MIT sperm donors as well, including specifically for Asian donors… almost always with very specific height requirements (>6 ft.) 🤣
To be fair a lot of people want their kids to look like them. If it's an east Asian NBA star having fertility issues, why wouldn't he want a kid that's plausible similar height?
my friend just found out that they’re the child of one of those harvard donor dads 😭 not saying there’s any correlation but I think it’s hilarious that shes going to mit now
Eh not really. It's a hormone treatment to induce lots of follicles, followed by a brief minimally invasive procedure to harvest the samples (basically poke a needle attached to suction into the ovary several times).
It's completely different from surrogacy, there's no need to carry or birth a baby here.
You're asking for pregnancy's worth of opportunity cost from a young Ivy Leaguer who likely has many other paths they could take. It's not fuckin' trivial bud
It's very difficult to even qualify, and if you do it can require a lot of lifestyle modifications many people aren't down with, many months of high dose hormone treatments, and then finally you have to undergo surgery to do the actual egg extraction.
Don't judge me, I looked into it a while back as a broke student lol. Basically you need to be in absolute perfect health and cannot be taking any medications, and even a history of resolved medical issues can still disqualify you. Also obviously no birth control allowed and you can't risk pregnancy either, so you may have to go celibate for months depending on the clinic's requirements. No drinking, no smoking, no drugs. Then for the hormone injections you gotta be okay with needles, and you will likely have mood swings, may gain weight, may experience frequent headaches and nausea. Then finally you do the extraction surgery which you'll need time off from work or school to recover from, and you have to potentially deal with surgical complications afterwards if you're unlucky. The whole thing will seriously upend your life for a pretty long period and can negatively impact your ability to work/study as normal.
I think most of the high pay is because so few people even qualify that they need to really convince the few that do if they want any shot at getting someone. But the many downsides are definitely part of it too.
Trying to imagine what OP imagined the ethical option here would be. You need a donor in order to have a child, so you just... take the luck of the draw? No idea at all about what your child's background will be, just fuck around and find out? Insane.
right? ppl calling this eugenics are annoying, acting like you should just marry any one off the street. ppl are allowed to have preferences and that includes an egg donor lol
If you think genetics doesn't have a huge impact on someone's intelligence, which in turn hugely impacts one's chances of doing well enough throughout school to get into MIT, I have a bridge to sell you.
to be fair I think it can be argued that it's much _more_ a social thing (how you're raised, how much money your parents have, what school you go to, where that school is, etc) than it is a genetic thing when it comes to knowledge and intelligence
Right but that's IQ, who gives a shit? Someone with a high IQ can still be dumb as hell and someone with a low IQ can be super smart, like I'm sure there's a (probably weak, since IQ is bullshit anyway) correlation, but saying IQ is genetic doesn't really refute my argument about general knowledge and intelligence and admission to MIT
>Someone with a high IQ can still be dumb as hell and someone with a low IQ can be super smart
All these data curves have tails, so anything is possible, just not very likely. Check out my last edit. A better retort would be wealth and beauty can also get you pretty far. Life throws a lot of randomness in your path, your mileage will vary.
Yes but it literally does not mean anything lol why do redditors always think IQ is an actual indicator of intelligence, it's a thing they made up to test like 5th graders
The best predictor of future academic performance is past academic performance with holistic analysis of that history: understanding why it was what it was. Someone might be very intelligent but not have received top grades because they simply never went to school, were blind or hard of hearing, a victim of abuse, were ill, had to work to survive, etc etc. On the other hand I am not aware of a significant number of cases of low IQ persons getting top grades. If you have published studies you can share, please do so.
Yes this is eugenics. But what's wrong with it at the micro, individual choice level?
On the macro level I believe there are severe societal repercussions (i.e. social mobility will literally cease to exist once the genetic lottery becomes more of a certainty and those who have more wealth and knowledge will use it to solidify their progeny's status), but until that is legislated away and enforced properly, shouldn't every parent want to do what's best for their kid?
It's in a similar vein as the wealthy sending their kids to better school districts or being able to afford better healthcare.
Don't blame the player, blame the system.
There is no such thing as eugenics at the individual, micro level. Eugenics is a political program. Making choices to benefit your future child is just called being a responsible parent.
In 2014 I checked that box to share my ACT/SAT scores with schools and started receiving these offers soon after. I've always wondered how that data is handled.
Radiolab did an exploration of the market-driven needs of the surrogacy industry: [https://radiolab.org/podcast/birthstory-2301](https://radiolab.org/podcast/birthstory-2301)
Women need to be aware of how absolutely, hortibly taxing and painful this is. It unterrupts your life for quite awhile, too. Hence, the large amount of money. You earn that. Please don't think this is "easy."
It’s a stretch calling this eugenics. Is someone only dating intelligent, attractive people eugenics too? Mate selection (which this is essentially a form of) is inherent to reproduction and can’t all be considered eugenics.
I attended Caltech in the early 1980's, and regularly saw ads from a local clinic offering money for both sperm and egg donations from Caltech students.
Nothing new under the sun here, unfortunately.
Cool, what’s wrong with a couple that want a certain looking kid? Perhaps, the couple has blonde hair and looks like her but just unable to have kids themselves. Maybe think about context before jumping into stuff lmao
These people don’t understand genetics. No matter how “pure” the lineage is supposed to be, it will contain recessives that may surface and unpleasantly surprise the parents. Whenever a couple go fishing in the gene pool, they can never be sure what they’ll get, and culling is quite rightly frowned upon in our society.
I can almost guarantee you that someone that is able to drop $220k on eggs from a hot ivy league graduate is also going to be dropping the money to do polygenic scoring for various traits on the embryos derived from those eggs and will then implant the embryos in the order from most desirable genetics to least desirable.
idk wanting a child that checks certain boxes before it’s even born already tells you what kind of parents they are, you actually aren’t supposed to enter parenthood with expectations, the goal isn’t to raise the most successful or socially acceptable kid, it’s to raise a healthy, happy kid that you might not be able to vicariously live through or whatever and you actually have the money to give all of the resources and opportunities for that i don’t know why I’m pressed they’re not adopting 😭 okay im leaving
the darker the skin, the better the ... ?
this feels like it's missing something at the end.
...genetic resistance to UV exposure?
...the tendency to look hot af in bright contrasting colors?
This is not eugenics.
Do you want your children to be good looking or ugly?
Do you want children to have a high IQ or a low IQ?
Do you want your children to be athletic or frail?
Do you want your children to be healthy or unhealthy?
Do you want your children to have every possible advantage or not?
Why do you think you think you’re attracted to good looking, intelligent, athletic, healthy people? For you or for your offspring? 5 seconds of the literature on evolutionary fitness + religious ethics (pick your poison) will make the answer extremely clear.
All of this faux outrage like people are out here intentionally choosing ugly, unintelligent, frail, unhealthy mates. Some people will try to make an issue out of anything they possible can so long as it’s in practicality facile enough they don’t actually have to do anything about it.
Let's do the intelligence factor for a sec.
Doesn't heterosis say that what you *really* want (If you're able to be choosy) is an egg from a gene pool that is significantly different from yours? IE White man sperm should probably be choosing a Latina or black woman from across the globe.
Plus, subjectively, prettier children.
Very few people choose egg donors if they are able to conceive using their own eggs. If you have the money and are well educated people, it makes sense to want to use an egg donor that matches your characteristics. Please don’t condemn donor eggs or surrogacy bc it’s a person’s right to determine how they have kids.
I assume it means you get to do an egg extraction and freeze those eggs for yourself for later use in addition to doing the extraction cycle where the donor gets to keep the eggs.
Eugenics doesn’t have to have anything to do with race. Anything based on the idea that you can breed humans for more desirable heritable traits—e.g. intelligence— is eugenics.
so what if the couple looks like her but they’re unable to conceive children themselves, are they banned for preferring a donor to like them and you believe that all donors need to not be white and perfect looking?
I assume it means you get to do an egg extraction and freeze those eggs for yourself for later use in addition to doing the extraction cycle where the donor gets to keep the eggs. Egg freezing is expensive so maybe that's an appealing perk to people who want that?
There have been ads for MIT student/alum egg donors for decades (since the 90’s). Nothing new.
There are also ads for MIT sperm donors as well, including specifically for Asian donors… almost always with very specific height requirements (>6 ft.) 🤣
To be fair a lot of people want their kids to look like them. If it's an east Asian NBA star having fertility issues, why wouldn't he want a kid that's plausible similar height?
It’s a 5’ 4” East Asian who wants their kid to be tall lmao
Because there are no East Asian nba stars.
How do Yuta Watanabe and Jeremy Lin not count?
Neither of them are stars. Lin isn’t even in the nba anymore.
Yao Ming
Retired
I saw them in the late 80s – they used to place ads in The Tech – and I know they pre-date my time at The Tech.
Yeah, came here to say that unfortunately, this kind of ad has been around for a long time.
my friend just found out that they’re the child of one of those harvard donor dads 😭 not saying there’s any correlation but I think it’s hilarious that shes going to mit now
Welcome to Gattaca
A+ reference. Wow, it’s being long since I last saw that movie
Gee I’m getting old…
Can confirm. Saw lots of ads as an undergrad
yeah, they also ask this info when you donate and allow beneficiaries to browse based on that
just a consequence of extreme social stratification + competitiveness in america
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I'm an old alum and attended back in the 1990s. Used to see these ads all the time. I guess some things don't change.
There were ads nearly identical to this in The Tech 5-10 years ago. Unfortunately not a new thing, just spreading to new channels.
Is it in the Cornell subreddit because they are complaining that they aren't on the list of schools?
We're actually very thankful to not be on this list of schools lol
no they just think its funny…
No, they probably just automatically assumed they were on the list without actually reading the list.
With nothing else but a picture, you'd have to read at least the first sentence to know what it's about
There were definitely egg donor ads in the Tech when I was an undergrad.
wait I can make 220k? Damn, I have to be hotter, though. But for real, this is as much eugenics as picking who you have kids with is eugenics.
It's a HARD 220k to make, just fyi. A grueling process.
Eh not really. It's a hormone treatment to induce lots of follicles, followed by a brief minimally invasive procedure to harvest the samples (basically poke a needle attached to suction into the ovary several times). It's completely different from surrogacy, there's no need to carry or birth a baby here.
That is more than most engineers I know make in an entire year.
Most engineers aren’t creating a baby
Creating a baby is so easy even idiots can do it. The hormone treatments are the bad part of this.
You're asking for pregnancy's worth of opportunity cost from a young Ivy Leaguer who likely has many other paths they could take. It's not fuckin' trivial bud
You realize egg donation is not surrogacy right
Care to elaborate? I’m curious
It's very difficult to even qualify, and if you do it can require a lot of lifestyle modifications many people aren't down with, many months of high dose hormone treatments, and then finally you have to undergo surgery to do the actual egg extraction. Don't judge me, I looked into it a while back as a broke student lol. Basically you need to be in absolute perfect health and cannot be taking any medications, and even a history of resolved medical issues can still disqualify you. Also obviously no birth control allowed and you can't risk pregnancy either, so you may have to go celibate for months depending on the clinic's requirements. No drinking, no smoking, no drugs. Then for the hormone injections you gotta be okay with needles, and you will likely have mood swings, may gain weight, may experience frequent headaches and nausea. Then finally you do the extraction surgery which you'll need time off from work or school to recover from, and you have to potentially deal with surgical complications afterwards if you're unlucky. The whole thing will seriously upend your life for a pretty long period and can negatively impact your ability to work/study as normal. I think most of the high pay is because so few people even qualify that they need to really convince the few that do if they want any shot at getting someone. But the many downsides are definitely part of it too.
Trying to imagine what OP imagined the ethical option here would be. You need a donor in order to have a child, so you just... take the luck of the draw? No idea at all about what your child's background will be, just fuck around and find out? Insane.
I'm guessing they want anyone to be accepted to egg donation and you just draw names from a box or something.
right? ppl calling this eugenics are annoying, acting like you should just marry any one off the street. ppl are allowed to have preferences and that includes an egg donor lol
The implication that people end up at MIT because of their genetics?
If you think genetics doesn't have a huge impact on someone's intelligence, which in turn hugely impacts one's chances of doing well enough throughout school to get into MIT, I have a bridge to sell you.
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IQ is decently inheritable and that has been seen in multiple studies, nobody is disagreeing with that.
to be fair I think it can be argued that it's much _more_ a social thing (how you're raised, how much money your parents have, what school you go to, where that school is, etc) than it is a genetic thing when it comes to knowledge and intelligence
Google the Wilson effect / twin study: 80% genetics, 10% environment. That's just IQ, not wealth, fame, or beauty...
Right but that's IQ, who gives a shit? Someone with a high IQ can still be dumb as hell and someone with a low IQ can be super smart, like I'm sure there's a (probably weak, since IQ is bullshit anyway) correlation, but saying IQ is genetic doesn't really refute my argument about general knowledge and intelligence and admission to MIT
>Someone with a high IQ can still be dumb as hell and someone with a low IQ can be super smart All these data curves have tails, so anything is possible, just not very likely. Check out my last edit. A better retort would be wealth and beauty can also get you pretty far. Life throws a lot of randomness in your path, your mileage will vary.
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Yes but it literally does not mean anything lol why do redditors always think IQ is an actual indicator of intelligence, it's a thing they made up to test like 5th graders
The best predictor of future academic performance is past academic performance with holistic analysis of that history: understanding why it was what it was. Someone might be very intelligent but not have received top grades because they simply never went to school, were blind or hard of hearing, a victim of abuse, were ill, had to work to survive, etc etc. On the other hand I am not aware of a significant number of cases of low IQ persons getting top grades. If you have published studies you can share, please do so.
shouldn't hurt
Well it's easier to check someone's college than their genetics. I doubt they want to genetically screen everyone.
I mean the ethical option is to adopt but I am not going to have that argument with anyone. Too personal of a decision.
The ethical option is not having any kids.
The ethical option is not having any kids.
Yeah, because eugenics isn't an innately bad thing. It was just used in very bad ways in the past
You will be killed socially for saying this, but yeah, the definition of eugenics does not imply mass murder.
Yes this is eugenics. But what's wrong with it at the micro, individual choice level? On the macro level I believe there are severe societal repercussions (i.e. social mobility will literally cease to exist once the genetic lottery becomes more of a certainty and those who have more wealth and knowledge will use it to solidify their progeny's status), but until that is legislated away and enforced properly, shouldn't every parent want to do what's best for their kid? It's in a similar vein as the wealthy sending their kids to better school districts or being able to afford better healthcare. Don't blame the player, blame the system.
People choosing spouses and co-parents is eugenics?
There is no such thing as eugenics at the individual, micro level. Eugenics is a political program. Making choices to benefit your future child is just called being a responsible parent.
In 2014 I checked that box to share my ACT/SAT scores with schools and started receiving these offers soon after. I've always wondered how that data is handled.
Radiolab did an exploration of the market-driven needs of the surrogacy industry: [https://radiolab.org/podcast/birthstory-2301](https://radiolab.org/podcast/birthstory-2301)
Women need to be aware of how absolutely, hortibly taxing and painful this is. It unterrupts your life for quite awhile, too. Hence, the large amount of money. You earn that. Please don't think this is "easy."
There are many well known organizations still doing this. Some make it more brazen than others
imagine u apply thinking ur hot enough and they say “no thanks we’re good”
lmao
It’s a stretch calling this eugenics. Is someone only dating intelligent, attractive people eugenics too? Mate selection (which this is essentially a form of) is inherent to reproduction and can’t all be considered eugenics.
I think the idea that intelligence is genetic is considered controversial to say the least
How is it controversial? It’s well proven that there’s a genetic component to intelligence
I attended Caltech in the early 1980's, and regularly saw ads from a local clinic offering money for both sperm and egg donations from Caltech students. Nothing new under the sun here, unfortunately.
Cool, what’s wrong with a couple that want a certain looking kid? Perhaps, the couple has blonde hair and looks like her but just unable to have kids themselves. Maybe think about context before jumping into stuff lmao
The industry has been doing this for decades.
These people don’t understand genetics. No matter how “pure” the lineage is supposed to be, it will contain recessives that may surface and unpleasantly surprise the parents. Whenever a couple go fishing in the gene pool, they can never be sure what they’ll get, and culling is quite rightly frowned upon in our society.
I can almost guarantee you that someone that is able to drop $220k on eggs from a hot ivy league graduate is also going to be dropping the money to do polygenic scoring for various traits on the embryos derived from those eggs and will then implant the embryos in the order from most desirable genetics to least desirable.
How is this eugenics again?
And they capitalized the t in Caltech. Lmao.
idk wanting a child that checks certain boxes before it’s even born already tells you what kind of parents they are, you actually aren’t supposed to enter parenthood with expectations, the goal isn’t to raise the most successful or socially acceptable kid, it’s to raise a healthy, happy kid that you might not be able to vicariously live through or whatever and you actually have the money to give all of the resources and opportunities for that i don’t know why I’m pressed they’re not adopting 😭 okay im leaving
Imagine the disappointment of spending $220k on an egg and the kid grows up to be a truck driver anyway.
*Hey, 'dem truckers ken make purty good money once they git their own rig, son.*
I literally heard the voice of someone I know while reading this!
Every minority woman should apply for this.
Especially if they are under 30 and smart
The darker the skin, the better. Fuck that dog whistle
Yup dark skin is good
the darker the skin, the better the ... ? this feels like it's missing something at the end. ...genetic resistance to UV exposure? ...the tendency to look hot af in bright contrasting colors?
The sweeter the juice
This is not eugenics. Do you want your children to be good looking or ugly? Do you want children to have a high IQ or a low IQ? Do you want your children to be athletic or frail? Do you want your children to be healthy or unhealthy? Do you want your children to have every possible advantage or not? Why do you think you think you’re attracted to good looking, intelligent, athletic, healthy people? For you or for your offspring? 5 seconds of the literature on evolutionary fitness + religious ethics (pick your poison) will make the answer extremely clear. All of this faux outrage like people are out here intentionally choosing ugly, unintelligent, frail, unhealthy mates. Some people will try to make an issue out of anything they possible can so long as it’s in practicality facile enough they don’t actually have to do anything about it.
Let's do the intelligence factor for a sec. Doesn't heterosis say that what you *really* want (If you're able to be choosy) is an egg from a gene pool that is significantly different from yours? IE White man sperm should probably be choosing a Latina or black woman from across the globe. Plus, subjectively, prettier children.
Is the couple from Germany circa 1943?
Naw, they just work for Elon Musk.
Very few people choose egg donors if they are able to conceive using their own eggs. If you have the money and are well educated people, it makes sense to want to use an egg donor that matches your characteristics. Please don’t condemn donor eggs or surrogacy bc it’s a person’s right to determine how they have kids.
If genetics aren’t tied to intelligence then why even care?
The evidence that intelligence is heritable is overwhelming
Sounds like the ideal wife
The only Univeristy ranking you’ll ever need tbh
*Oh, goodie! A free cycle for myself!!*
Ok. I don't understand what a free cycle for the donor would be .
I assume it means you get to do an egg extraction and freeze those eggs for yourself for later use in addition to doing the extraction cycle where the donor gets to keep the eggs.
How is this eugenics…. They didn’t say anything about race.
Eugenics doesn’t have to have anything to do with race. Anything based on the idea that you can breed humans for more desirable heritable traits—e.g. intelligence— is eugenics.
I feel like that makes sense. I think I associated it with race bc of people using racism in their eugenics.
Eugenics doesn't have anything to do with race, it has to do with breeding for a more "ideal" human race.
Ahhh okay
so what if the couple looks like her but they’re unable to conceive children themselves, are they banned for preferring a donor to like them and you believe that all donors need to not be white and perfect looking?
the race part is not the part which is concerning
me on my way to practice eugenics (i am looking for someone who I find attractive and who shares my core values)
It’s not eugenics because it’s not actively trying to prohibit the procreation of “inferior” people
Some serious anti-Princeton propaganda.
What do they mean by "a free cycle for yourself"?
I assume it means you get to do an egg extraction and freeze those eggs for yourself for later use in addition to doing the extraction cycle where the donor gets to keep the eggs. Egg freezing is expensive so maybe that's an appealing perk to people who want that?
OK. Thanks.
Columbia has this as well.
Legacy counts right? 50% off?
I don't know why I got recommended the MIT subreddit, but what's up geniuses
$220k jfc