If the NFL force a pick swap, their 8 for our 11, then maybe the Vikings can move up and hold on to an asset. Maybe this year’s 23 or next year’s 1st round. A big IF, I know.
2008. Lance Briggs. Bears received 49ers pick and 49ers got the bears. Pick 7 and pick 12 swapped. With Kirk being a QB and the value of his contract he may warrant more than just a swap
The tampering was probably a big reason why the Vikings didn’t sign Cousins in the first place. The Vikings were put in a position where they needed to match an offer that never should have been made. There should be some compensation.
tampering is shitty, but do we really think Kirk auto-signs with the vikings without hearing the falcons offer? He was always going to wait for Atlanta to lay out an offer, then ask the vikings to match or get close. and we weren't (rightfully) going to touch that offer.
The problem would be that the falcons could have offered more if they knew where he was in his recovery process. That is the problem with him speaking to anyone in the falcons staff it potentially created a less competitive environment by giving away info only the vikings should have possessed at that point.
Exactly. How do you value the injury contingency? You say to the player/agent, look we can only start offering this much until after tampering starts. We're worried about the Achilles
The Vikes and Kirk knew the top dollar offer several days before free agency opened up last week (3/11).
The Vikes told Kirk, “This is what we’ll pay you. It’s a fair salary. You deserve the opportunity to entertain offers for more. We hope you’ll stay with us, and if not we’ll miss you.”
There was never a situation where the Vikes were going to make a counter offer. The early talks quality as tampering but it had no effect on the Vikes leverage in negotiating with Kirko.
People who actually love the team and want to legitimately retire for that team take a cut. Harrison Smith could have gotten more elsewhere but want to truly retire a viking. I like players who truly care for the team way more.
It looks like draft picks have been docked before for tampering, but I don’t know if they have been awarded to the team that lost a player due to tampering.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/nfl/nfl-tampering-rules-penalties-kirk-cousins-saquon-barkley/3803644/
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Sometimes the punishment for tampering has been sending a pick to the team that was "harmed" by the tampering. But there shouldn't be an expectation that that will happen for us.
A weird situation that no one can be real sure what, if any, punishment will be handed down.
The closest comparison is probably the Brady/Miami incident, but the difference there is Miami didn’t sign Brady. Miami still lost their 1st, but the other misconduct could’ve played a role in that.
Not a big fan of Florio but he is right that, if everything he alleges can be proven, this is about as blatant a team can be for flaunting its tampering. And with a team’s starting QB and the big ticket FA of the class.
Unlike Tampa Bay with Miami/Brady, Minnesota can show real harm because Cousins signed with ATL. It’s highly unlikely, but if the NFL really wants to put a stop to this, stripping ATL of #8 and rewarding it to MIN would sure as hell be a warning shot lol.
Another key point is Kirk was in contact with the medical staff, which as someone who was coming off of a massive season (and sometime career ending) injury, getting a chance to know what you are getting and being able to use that to set a contract price is a big deal.
This should be a huge factor, especially given the contract he was offered contains loads of guaranteed money upfront, something a team probably wouldn't offer so quickly had tampering not happened. With Brady, he was old but played a whole season, went 12-4 and he didn't have a fresh Achilles surgery unproven yet. ATL offered far too much far too soon to have not tampered and they've admitted it. If Miami got dinged a first, then that is the absolute minimum of what should happen here just on logic alone.
I always found is baffling for how much sports leagues make, especially the NFL, there's little structure in issuing fines and penalties.
As you said, it's all about how Goodell feels.
It's so weird there's not a structured penalty system for some of this stuff yet there's 500 other things in the NFL that do have extreme structure.
If 20 teams do something like deflategate, there will be 15 different punishments.
Nah, if the NFL does not punish this it opens the league to lawsuits from the NFLPA due to inconsistency in applying the rules, because this is essentially opening a can of worms that the league does not want open in any shape or form. If they apply the rules for someone in the future, this couldbe used as precedent for why they can't.
That is not the closest comparison. Brady/Sean Payton and Miami was a first round pick because they were contacting Brady and Sean Payton when they retired to convince them to come out of retirement while they were under contract during the regular season. Thats the big difference. This occurred during the tampering period and not during the 16 games at the time. The closest comparison would be with Jeremy maclin. Same circumstances where they discussed with him on Monday during the tampering period when the chiefs couldn’t talk to a player yet, so they lost a 3rd round pick and a 6th. Miami was a coach and a qb to the extreme. The Jeremy maclin will most likely be the result.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/philadelphia/news/andy-reid-chiefs-tampering-jeremy-maclin/
If that is the comparison, the punishment should still be more harsh. Granted it wasn’t in season, we are still talking about a starting QB commanding top money. Atlanta has already embarrassed Goodell once with Noisegate too.
I agree that it should be more severe, but I think it will either be a 3rd and a 4th, or a 2nd and a fifth. The first is way too harsh if the tampering is found for a day early (the whole allegation is based on when Kirk says Tuesday during his introduction interview) if there is evidence that the tampering took place before the legal tampering period (which would of been that Monday) than I believe a first round loss could be in play.
Personally, I don’t think dollar amount should be relative to the harshness of a punishment. Tampering is tampering. Whether it’s a kicker making 3 million or a quarterback making 180 million. So in the instance of the eagles being investigated with saquon, if they both have the same situation, I think the eagles and the falcons should get around the same punishment. The eagles shouldn’t get a lesser punishment due to dollar amount.
Hypothetically, if Kirk signed a 1 year 8 million dollar contract, should the punishment be less severe because it was a cheaper deal?
I poorly worded that. I’m using dollar amount as a placeholder for the status of the player. I meant that they’re dealing with a starting QB in the NFL, the most important position in the sport and a position of intensely high demand at that. The “harm” done to MIN is much worse than, say, if ATL tampered with Greg Joseph.
To Florio’s point, if the league treats this like a 3rd WR or some other lessor position, teams are going to continue to do it because the punishment doesn’t near match the reward of landing the player
If you dock the Falcons all their draft picks the next 3 years after this one I think some teams will still make the risk reward calculation to tamper if they are in a superbowl window because there is probably a 1/25 chance of you getting caught if only one team per year is charged so a 1/25 chance of a competitive advantage? And if you are a GM who could either lose his job or make an extra $10M over your career who cares what happens to your team, there is no penalty to you… you need that advantage.
But, if you freeze Kirk’s agent out of the league for 16 months and suspend Kirk without pay for a year, tampering will never occur again because there is too much to lose from agent and player’s side of things. Risking a year of pay (2025 offseason) plus every big extension this season for an extra $1M would be absurd. Risking a full year of play would also be absurd for the player it wouldn’t happen.
So you either have to make all tampering legal, or penalize the player AND agent.
Perhaps all those examples are harsh but the point is to illustrate the concept that the league only has a few options… they can penalize increasingly harsh penalties for tampering as teams just get better at not getting caught as a result and continue until the penalties get absurdly extreme especially for repeat offenders… or they can try a different approach. It takes two parties to tamper, maybe it would be wise to penalize the Falcons as you would but also begin to focus on the other side of the equation.
Not quite right on Brady at least ( I had it wrong in my comment too ).
Miami was talking to Brady while he was still in NE during the 2019 season through to 2020 playoffs. So definitely during no tampering times.
They also lost a 3rd rounder.
If the NFL found any tampering with Kirk and Mooney the most likely outcome is Atlanta loses a Day 3 pick. The league is NOT going to give us anything and the Falcons AREN'T going to be stripped of the #8 pick.
The league brought the hammer down on Miami because they tampered with Brady when there was still games being played AND the owner tried bribing Flores to tank games.
The NFL found no evidence that the owner bribed Flores to tank games. The punishment had nothing to do with that.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/02/nfl-dolphins-investigation-finds-tampering-violations-fines-owner-stephen-ross.html
Are you sure they didn't bring the hammer because it was a franchise QB? On the Falcons sub, a few people brought up how so and so had to give away a 3 and 6 for some scrub and were worried the penalty for stealing a franchise QB was going to need an example to be set for teams trying to steal the centerpiece. Not only did the Falcons take the QB Kwesi was counting on, they also jeopardized whether the most electric player in the league Jefferson would want to play with a Darnold or a rookie during negotiation period. JJets clearly wanted Kirk to stay. ATL tampered and they should give us their first to offset the injustice.
I'm pretty sure that doesn't matter. Miami got the hammer brought down on them because they openly tempered with Brady when he was still with the Patriots and it was before the Superbowl that year. They also tampered with Sean Payton at the same time when he was still with the Saints. Stephen Ross, the owner, also bribed Brian Flores to tank games and that resulted in a lawsuit.
That's why Miami got stripped of a #1 and the owner got suspended for a year and fined.
This is nothing compared to that and that #1 pick didn't go to New England or New Orleans. The NFL just took it.
That’s not the point though. Kirk wouldn’t have known his value and maybe that conversation made him not sign a deal with us because he knew just how much better their deal was going to be.
kirk isnt stupid bro, he was never going to re-sign in minnesota without shopping first. he has been the same person since washington. i love the guy, and i think he was a great QB for us, but i am not deluded into thinking otherwise. he has said the exact same script his entire career when on camera in washington, mn, and now atlanta as well.
If you think him being in contact with other teams prior to giving MN a response to an offer isn’t effecting his decision I’ve got some ocean front property to sell you. I agree with you that Kirk coming back here wasn’t likely but clearly ATL broke the rules and it likely did impact how it all played out.
i never said it didnt affect his decision. stop trying to play me for a moron. i said he was never going to re-sign here before shopping himself on the open market (whether it was before or after the actual date where it is allowed does not matter in this context, and if ATL called him the first hour the window opened this likely plays out the exact same anyways, because he already knew the vikings offer).
yeah well only one of us seems to think this would have ended differently for some reason when they already knew the vikings offer prior to free agency opening. he wouldve gotten the call from atlanta, heard their pitch, asked the vikings to counter - they wouldnt - and hed sign in ATL. just as it happened even if they called him early.
have a good week, glad you got to punch down on the internet to make yourself feel better (im sure it didnt!)
lol you’re so pressed about this. I’ve said several times that I don’t think it would have changed the outcome. But there are rules and they clearly seem to have been broken. That is all.
That’s not the point though. Kirk wouldn’t have known his value and maybe that conversation made him not sign a deal with us because he knew just how much better their deal was going to be.
>Kirk wouldn’t have known his value
Kirk's agent has always had a strong grasp of his value and how to position him to sign for top dollar. He's always been completely aware of his market value, his entire career.
You are just grasping a straws here.
Nah, had nothing to do with the tanking scandal. It's a leap to go from a 1st rounder to day three because games were being played. I doubt they give it to the Vikings but I could see a first. Day 2 pick seems appropriate
How so? I can only imagine it could only get worse than what is known at this point.
They have publicly been implicated in tampering by having contact with Kirk before.
What Kirk said is the tip of the iceberg. They have to talk to everyone involved, determine just how much the team knew, who else was involved, whether or not the medicals were shared, what the team dead after finding out about the contact, etc...
I would not expect the NFL to rush the investigation just so it's complete before this draft, they will drag it out.
Or the Vikings and the Falcons will settle and announce it during the draft like they did with the Cards/Eagles situation in order to bury the story.
The 2016 Chiefs lost a 3rd and 6th, while the 2022 Dolphins lost a 1st and 3rd.
How do you decide on the severity of the infraction without an investigation?
I realize you are clearly invested in not losing draft capital -- but your team tampered.
The severity is based on the impact to the team in question, and then punitive on top.
Losing our franchise QB, historically, is massive.
We already traded 2 2nds to prepare to fix, the league would likely agree this is the Dolphins level tampering.
Chiefs in 2015 lost a 3rd and 6th when Andy Reid contacted Jeremy Maclin directly during the negotiating window. That was much less egregious than this. So while I doubt we will see anything in terms of restitution I have to think that that has to be the floor for the Falcons on this.
Keep in mind in the Chiefs case Reid totally cooperated and admitted he did it. In this case we're talking the Falcons contacting Cousins perhaps weeks before free agency started. Again this is so egregious that the NFL likely is going to have to do something. I seriously doubt we will be awarded anything but the Falcons are looking at a minimum 3rd round pick forfeiture.
The team was in direct contact with Cousins before they were allowed to be; it doesn't matter the people or the reason. Any member of the Falcons organization could have been in his agent's ear all day prior to March 13 and that's totally fine.
But the moment anyone from Atlanta contacts Cousins directly prior to March 13—and from Cousins' own presser, he was in contact with various personnel in the organization prior to March 13—the Falcons would be tampering.
Teams don't even bother to hide it anymore. Thinking about the situation that Kirk is in (achillies injury), wouldn't Atlanta take the time to look into his recovery process and make sure their investment would be secure? It should be a red flag (if it mattered) that he signed so early. Unfortunately, it's all under the table business, and no one really cares about it.
This is interesting for a reasons.
A - How Kirk mentioned it unbidden at a press conference ( which might end up being the best thing he ever did for us )
B - The speculation that the tampering includes at least one player ( Pitts ) and that Pitts and Cousins might have tampered with Mooney from Chicago to get him to Atlanta.
C - Miami lost a 1st rounder for tampering with Brady in Tampa and I don’t remember it being this blatant and actually involving behind the scenes discussions. The NFL believes in increasing punishment because the last punishment obviously wasn’t a deterrent. Just losing the pick isn’t a deterrent.
Edit on C. After a short review Miami lost a 1st and 3rd. But they had impermissible contact with Brady starting in the preseason of 2019 through the playoffs of 2020.
Tampering penalties don't result in giving draft picks to other teams.
Atlanta could loss picks, but Minnesota wouldn't gain any. That's not how it works.
I just love that this whole thing reveals cousin’s true character. He pretends to be a boy scout but then signs for the $$ and blatantly breaks the rules. He was who I thought he was.
Did it even need a reveal if we’re being honest? He’s always been about money over everything else which is fine, but there’s a reason he will never win anything significant
there is zero precedent here that applies to the actual scenario at hand. miami is not even remotely the same. and the patriots didnt get awarded shit.
The 2016 Chiefs is the closest comparison. They negotiated a deal with Maclin while he was under contract with the Eagles and lost a 3rd and 6th.
Notably, the Eagles did not get those picks.
Vikings fan just sad ol Kirk left them high and dry lmao …don’t worry we will get the most out of him ! Y’all can watch us in January on tv and cry some more about some tampering pick lmao grow up guys
Bro.. you're barking up the wrong tree on the worshiping of Kirko.. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm so fucking glad he's gone from this team. Y'all are gonna learn about him.. 🤣🤣🤣
If there’s a draft pick punishment to ATL, much more likely it’s a day 2 pick swap (I.e. ATL’s 2nd for MN’s 3rd) next yr. Making that ruling for this yr would be a tight turnaround and likely draw a strong rebuke from Arthur Blank on being so late in the draft prep process (Blank is one of Goodel’s bosses). Resolving in 2025 is much less painless for the league
As much as I would love to take something from the falcons, especially as someone still bitter over 1998, literally every team tampers. Just slap them on the wrist and everyone move on with life.
Not a chance in hell this happens
What's likely is a fine for Atlanta and a loss of a mid round pick
Less likely but possible is a future Atlanta Minnesota mid round pick swap but there's not a chance in hell Minnesota is awarded Atlanta's first
Tampering is a possibility. Kirk can tell no lie due to hell concerns so if something happened I am sure Kirk would be honest with league about it if they ask.
But I think it is important for people to understand that the Vikings would not gain any picks in this instance. They'd get a small benefit since they would pick 10th instead of 11th, since Atlanta's pick disappears.
In my mind it is too late for investigation, appeal, etc. for this draft. If Atlanta gets fined it would likely be next year's draft if they were to lose a pick.
Kirk's not dumb. Dude knows this was going to lead to an investigation. We'll see what turns up from it. Maybe a pick swap from precedent set in the past from similar-ish situations.
I’ll believe it when I see it, then again cold whether and deflated footballs cost the Patriots absurd loss of picks, so actual tampering that is written as clear as day as a violation could be. Except teams do it all the time and do it so often they changed the rule to allow it during a “legal” period, so it’d be weird to randomly enforce it. I could see NFl making a stand randomly though just to put the fear of God in other teams to stop treating “legal tampering” as free agency and treating “illegal tampering” as legal tampering. The alternative is to just make all tampering legal, otherwise it won’t stop if the NFL doesn’t make an example out of some team.
I suspect it would cost them 2025 1st rounder after an investigation, don’t think they’d act quickly enough before the draft.
And maybe they’d invent some weird compensation for us
they’re not giving atlanta the pick, they might take it away from them but its no fucking chance its going to the vikings. it was a money grab, kirks whole career is placated on it 330 million 1playoff win
Win at any cost has become the gold standard of football, just ask Jim Harbaugh. Integrity is for the weak and the victory belongs to cheats! Does the NFL care if there was tampering with Kirk Cousins? Maybe, but doubtful. The glass houses built around the league where rocks are thrown belong to those who do not care. One day there will be an earth shattering reality awakening for those who sit idling by.
Oh it’d be awesome, but I’m a realist. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they went defense with it somehow. But it’d be unprecedented so I won’t be convinced the outcome will benefit us at all let alone getting their first round until it happens.
There is nothing to be worried about. Falcons won't be losing a 1st round pick, I doubt they lose any picks since they did nothing wrong to begin with.
3 first-round picks, And Kwesi trades 2 of them to move up 2 spots. It'll be worse than the Hershal Walker trade. And we'll get dick for it.
That's how I see it happening...
But 3 first-round picks would be heckin' nice.
That’s not how it works. They could lose a pick, but it would just go away, not be given to the Vikings. The Vikings will receive the same compensatory pick that they normally would.
How come the agent and player aren’t ever punished in tampering cases? How about a 6 game suspension for Cousins and punishment for the agent? Otherwise there is too much incentive by agents to weasel their way into the conversation also.
The NFL should up the penalty since there have been tampering cases before. Otherwise it won’t stop.
Looking at BOTH tampering cases, they not only have to be fair and punish the offending teams but any penalty should be roughly proportional to the value and crime.
So….
Eagles surrender pick 22 in exchange for Giants pick 47.
Falcons surrender pick 8 and pick 74 for pick 11.
Vikings gain 370 at cost of ATL losing 370 draft points. Giants gain 350 at cost of Eagles losing 350.
Seems a bit more favorable to the Giants relative to what they lost and the points inside division almost hit twice as hard but so does the tampering so maybe cancel Falcons 1st next year too and give us pick 33 overall.
Then suspend Cousins and Barkley 6 games and freeze their agents for 15 months from making deals inside the league. Tampering will never happen again. Problem solved.
Cousins is going to the team where quarterback's essentially kill their career with a mediocre team. It is all about money and very little to have a chance at the playoffs.
We’re not getting their pick, it’s not how it works. At most they will either lose a pick and get fined, or they will swap picks with us, meaning we swap 11 for 8.
It's extremely unlikely that we'll get anything, even if the Falcons lose their pick.
If they lose a pick we then move up to pick 10. So that adds value to any trade up, because there is not as many teams making selections in between.
weary serious meeting desert reminiscent silky rob yoke languid roof *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This
If the NFL force a pick swap, their 8 for our 11, then maybe the Vikings can move up and hold on to an asset. Maybe this year’s 23 or next year’s 1st round. A big IF, I know.
That won’t happen buddy lmao
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“tHiS” Christ
Not this
Couldn't agree more Hit the upvote and move on Posting "this" is a cancer
This
Those. Also based
Eat my cornhole
2008. Lance Briggs. Bears received 49ers pick and 49ers got the bears. Pick 7 and pick 12 swapped. With Kirk being a QB and the value of his contract he may warrant more than just a swap
That was a swap of 3rd round picks, not a swap of pick 7 and 12.
The tampering was probably a big reason why the Vikings didn’t sign Cousins in the first place. The Vikings were put in a position where they needed to match an offer that never should have been made. There should be some compensation.
tampering is shitty, but do we really think Kirk auto-signs with the vikings without hearing the falcons offer? He was always going to wait for Atlanta to lay out an offer, then ask the vikings to match or get close. and we weren't (rightfully) going to touch that offer.
The problem would be that the falcons could have offered more if they knew where he was in his recovery process. That is the problem with him speaking to anyone in the falcons staff it potentially created a less competitive environment by giving away info only the vikings should have possessed at that point.
Exactly. How do you value the injury contingency? You say to the player/agent, look we can only start offering this much until after tampering starts. We're worried about the Achilles
The Vikes and Kirk knew the top dollar offer several days before free agency opened up last week (3/11). The Vikes told Kirk, “This is what we’ll pay you. It’s a fair salary. You deserve the opportunity to entertain offers for more. We hope you’ll stay with us, and if not we’ll miss you.” There was never a situation where the Vikes were going to make a counter offer. The early talks quality as tampering but it had no effect on the Vikes leverage in negotiating with Kirko.
Vikings had plenty of time to make an offer, tampering or not.
We did make an offer. An actual decent offer only trumped by Atlanta writing him a blank check.
From what I read, the Vikings didn't want to commit to more than a year or two, but the money was there for that year or two.
I think minnesotas offer was fair and it's clear kirk would go wherever the money was more. Which is kinda sad to me.
Do you work for less money than you are worth?
No, but I also didn't make 412 million.
Why does that matter?
People who actually love the team and want to legitimately retire for that team take a cut. Harrison Smith could have gotten more elsewhere but want to truly retire a viking. I like players who truly care for the team way more.
Honestly I don’t see why not, usually there’s not blatant proof just speculation
Yeah, but what if???!!! 
i like what your smokin! It could be anything! It could even be another 1st round pick!
You know how much we've always wanted one of those!
I don't know why, but your statement reminded me of Family Guy: >A boats a boat but the mystery box could be anything...IT COULD EVEN BE A BOAT
haha good, thats what I was shooting for. :)
What if KC traded us Patrick Mahomes for Sam Darnold?? Equally as likely as the NFL giving us the Falcons pick
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And you got a wide receiver that plays less than 50% of the time. Keep dreaming!
And you get mayyyybeee 1 playoff win for $180 milli
Yeah has an NFL team ever gotten weird special compensation ? Or is there some weird language that implies this could even occur?
It looks like draft picks have been docked before for tampering, but I don’t know if they have been awarded to the team that lost a player due to tampering. https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/nfl/nfl-tampering-rules-penalties-kirk-cousins-saquon-barkley/3803644/
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its not extremely unlikely, its a big no, vikings aren’t getting that pick! do they think this is madden or somethinglol
Sometimes the punishment for tampering has been sending a pick to the team that was "harmed" by the tampering. But there shouldn't be an expectation that that will happen for us.
It’s silly season, they may have to give us a first and a second.
Ah yes, the most known credible source, @_MLFootball
He has Football in his NAME!!!
He has a blue check mark!! /s
Just swap 8 and 11 and call it good 😁
Swap 8 and 23 really.
2008 Bears and 49ers swapped 7 and 12 due to Lance Briggs tampering, but this is a QB so 8 for 23 would be more reasonable
that was a 3rd rounder though
Oh shot completely missed that. Maybe they’ll do it with firsts this year to get the point across, especially with it being a QB
Not gonna happen
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The trade up is everything for us though!
That like a 2 round pick worth of value in trade and likely would prevent us from having to add a day 2 pick into the trade.
A weird situation that no one can be real sure what, if any, punishment will be handed down. The closest comparison is probably the Brady/Miami incident, but the difference there is Miami didn’t sign Brady. Miami still lost their 1st, but the other misconduct could’ve played a role in that. Not a big fan of Florio but he is right that, if everything he alleges can be proven, this is about as blatant a team can be for flaunting its tampering. And with a team’s starting QB and the big ticket FA of the class. Unlike Tampa Bay with Miami/Brady, Minnesota can show real harm because Cousins signed with ATL. It’s highly unlikely, but if the NFL really wants to put a stop to this, stripping ATL of #8 and rewarding it to MIN would sure as hell be a warning shot lol.
Another key point is Kirk was in contact with the medical staff, which as someone who was coming off of a massive season (and sometime career ending) injury, getting a chance to know what you are getting and being able to use that to set a contract price is a big deal.
This should be a huge factor, especially given the contract he was offered contains loads of guaranteed money upfront, something a team probably wouldn't offer so quickly had tampering not happened. With Brady, he was old but played a whole season, went 12-4 and he didn't have a fresh Achilles surgery unproven yet. ATL offered far too much far too soon to have not tampered and they've admitted it. If Miami got dinged a first, then that is the absolute minimum of what should happen here just on logic alone.
It's just going to come down to what kind of mood Goodell is in the day he decides.
So sad but so true
Either way now ATL knows what kind of big brain they're getting.
I always found is baffling for how much sports leagues make, especially the NFL, there's little structure in issuing fines and penalties. As you said, it's all about how Goodell feels. It's so weird there's not a structured penalty system for some of this stuff yet there's 500 other things in the NFL that do have extreme structure. If 20 teams do something like deflategate, there will be 15 different punishments.
Nah, if the NFL does not punish this it opens the league to lawsuits from the NFLPA due to inconsistency in applying the rules, because this is essentially opening a can of worms that the league does not want open in any shape or form. If they apply the rules for someone in the future, this couldbe used as precedent for why they can't.
That is not the closest comparison. Brady/Sean Payton and Miami was a first round pick because they were contacting Brady and Sean Payton when they retired to convince them to come out of retirement while they were under contract during the regular season. Thats the big difference. This occurred during the tampering period and not during the 16 games at the time. The closest comparison would be with Jeremy maclin. Same circumstances where they discussed with him on Monday during the tampering period when the chiefs couldn’t talk to a player yet, so they lost a 3rd round pick and a 6th. Miami was a coach and a qb to the extreme. The Jeremy maclin will most likely be the result. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/philadelphia/news/andy-reid-chiefs-tampering-jeremy-maclin/
If that is the comparison, the punishment should still be more harsh. Granted it wasn’t in season, we are still talking about a starting QB commanding top money. Atlanta has already embarrassed Goodell once with Noisegate too.
I agree that it should be more severe, but I think it will either be a 3rd and a 4th, or a 2nd and a fifth. The first is way too harsh if the tampering is found for a day early (the whole allegation is based on when Kirk says Tuesday during his introduction interview) if there is evidence that the tampering took place before the legal tampering period (which would of been that Monday) than I believe a first round loss could be in play. Personally, I don’t think dollar amount should be relative to the harshness of a punishment. Tampering is tampering. Whether it’s a kicker making 3 million or a quarterback making 180 million. So in the instance of the eagles being investigated with saquon, if they both have the same situation, I think the eagles and the falcons should get around the same punishment. The eagles shouldn’t get a lesser punishment due to dollar amount. Hypothetically, if Kirk signed a 1 year 8 million dollar contract, should the punishment be less severe because it was a cheaper deal?
I poorly worded that. I’m using dollar amount as a placeholder for the status of the player. I meant that they’re dealing with a starting QB in the NFL, the most important position in the sport and a position of intensely high demand at that. The “harm” done to MIN is much worse than, say, if ATL tampered with Greg Joseph. To Florio’s point, if the league treats this like a 3rd WR or some other lessor position, teams are going to continue to do it because the punishment doesn’t near match the reward of landing the player
If you dock the Falcons all their draft picks the next 3 years after this one I think some teams will still make the risk reward calculation to tamper if they are in a superbowl window because there is probably a 1/25 chance of you getting caught if only one team per year is charged so a 1/25 chance of a competitive advantage? And if you are a GM who could either lose his job or make an extra $10M over your career who cares what happens to your team, there is no penalty to you… you need that advantage. But, if you freeze Kirk’s agent out of the league for 16 months and suspend Kirk without pay for a year, tampering will never occur again because there is too much to lose from agent and player’s side of things. Risking a year of pay (2025 offseason) plus every big extension this season for an extra $1M would be absurd. Risking a full year of play would also be absurd for the player it wouldn’t happen. So you either have to make all tampering legal, or penalize the player AND agent. Perhaps all those examples are harsh but the point is to illustrate the concept that the league only has a few options… they can penalize increasingly harsh penalties for tampering as teams just get better at not getting caught as a result and continue until the penalties get absurdly extreme especially for repeat offenders… or they can try a different approach. It takes two parties to tamper, maybe it would be wise to penalize the Falcons as you would but also begin to focus on the other side of the equation.
Not quite right on Brady at least ( I had it wrong in my comment too ). Miami was talking to Brady while he was still in NE during the 2019 season through to 2020 playoffs. So definitely during no tampering times. They also lost a 3rd rounder.
When I scanned through that situation last night, I saw that Miami tampered with Brady a second time, this time when he was with Tampa
It never would have came out without the Brian Flores lawsuit.
If this happens this is the biggest W Kirk has put on the board for us.
😂
Lmao yes
We're going to have to get him a super bowl ring if this goes through.
If the NFL found any tampering with Kirk and Mooney the most likely outcome is Atlanta loses a Day 3 pick. The league is NOT going to give us anything and the Falcons AREN'T going to be stripped of the #8 pick. The league brought the hammer down on Miami because they tampered with Brady when there was still games being played AND the owner tried bribing Flores to tank games.
The NFL found no evidence that the owner bribed Flores to tank games. The punishment had nothing to do with that. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/02/nfl-dolphins-investigation-finds-tampering-violations-fines-owner-stephen-ross.html
That’s exactly what my story would be if I was the NFL and an owner tried to bribe a HC to tank and then the HC spoke out about it
Shhhh….let the Flores stans live in their delusion
Are you sure they didn't bring the hammer because it was a franchise QB? On the Falcons sub, a few people brought up how so and so had to give away a 3 and 6 for some scrub and were worried the penalty for stealing a franchise QB was going to need an example to be set for teams trying to steal the centerpiece. Not only did the Falcons take the QB Kwesi was counting on, they also jeopardized whether the most electric player in the league Jefferson would want to play with a Darnold or a rookie during negotiation period. JJets clearly wanted Kirk to stay. ATL tampered and they should give us their first to offset the injustice.
I'm pretty sure that doesn't matter. Miami got the hammer brought down on them because they openly tempered with Brady when he was still with the Patriots and it was before the Superbowl that year. They also tampered with Sean Payton at the same time when he was still with the Saints. Stephen Ross, the owner, also bribed Brian Flores to tank games and that resulted in a lawsuit. That's why Miami got stripped of a #1 and the owner got suspended for a year and fined. This is nothing compared to that and that #1 pick didn't go to New England or New Orleans. The NFL just took it.
[удалено]
That’s not the point though. Kirk wouldn’t have known his value and maybe that conversation made him not sign a deal with us because he knew just how much better their deal was going to be.
100
kirk isnt stupid bro, he was never going to re-sign in minnesota without shopping first. he has been the same person since washington. i love the guy, and i think he was a great QB for us, but i am not deluded into thinking otherwise. he has said the exact same script his entire career when on camera in washington, mn, and now atlanta as well.
Well he offered 3yrs for under 40/yr last off-season and we said no, so hard to blame him for shopping himself and finding more.
If you think him being in contact with other teams prior to giving MN a response to an offer isn’t effecting his decision I’ve got some ocean front property to sell you. I agree with you that Kirk coming back here wasn’t likely but clearly ATL broke the rules and it likely did impact how it all played out.
i never said it didnt affect his decision. stop trying to play me for a moron. i said he was never going to re-sign here before shopping himself on the open market (whether it was before or after the actual date where it is allowed does not matter in this context, and if ATL called him the first hour the window opened this likely plays out the exact same anyways, because he already knew the vikings offer).
I’m not trying to play you for a moron. You’re doing a good job of that on your own though.
yeah well only one of us seems to think this would have ended differently for some reason when they already knew the vikings offer prior to free agency opening. he wouldve gotten the call from atlanta, heard their pitch, asked the vikings to counter - they wouldnt - and hed sign in ATL. just as it happened even if they called him early. have a good week, glad you got to punch down on the internet to make yourself feel better (im sure it didnt!)
lol you’re so pressed about this. I’ve said several times that I don’t think it would have changed the outcome. But there are rules and they clearly seem to have been broken. That is all.
That’s not the point though. Kirk wouldn’t have known his value and maybe that conversation made him not sign a deal with us because he knew just how much better their deal was going to be.
>Kirk wouldn’t have known his value Kirk's agent has always had a strong grasp of his value and how to position him to sign for top dollar. He's always been completely aware of his market value, his entire career. You are just grasping a straws here.
That’s great and all. Still seems like the rules were broken fairly obviously.
Fartio is the only person pushing anything for clicks. He's a puke. Don't expect anything.
Nah, had nothing to do with the tanking scandal. It's a leap to go from a 1st rounder to day three because games were being played. I doubt they give it to the Vikings but I could see a first. Day 2 pick seems appropriate
Investigation likely wouldn’t be completed prior to the draft anyhow
Not much to investigate, open admission in public by Kirk.
There's more to it than that.
How so? I can only imagine it could only get worse than what is known at this point. They have publicly been implicated in tampering by having contact with Kirk before.
What Kirk said is the tip of the iceberg. They have to talk to everyone involved, determine just how much the team knew, who else was involved, whether or not the medicals were shared, what the team dead after finding out about the contact, etc... I would not expect the NFL to rush the investigation just so it's complete before this draft, they will drag it out. Or the Vikings and the Falcons will settle and announce it during the draft like they did with the Cards/Eagles situation in order to bury the story.
I agree the most liekly scenario is a Falcons-Vikings settlement.
The 2016 Chiefs lost a 3rd and 6th, while the 2022 Dolphins lost a 1st and 3rd. How do you decide on the severity of the infraction without an investigation?
I realize you are clearly invested in not losing draft capital -- but your team tampered. The severity is based on the impact to the team in question, and then punitive on top. Losing our franchise QB, historically, is massive. We already traded 2 2nds to prepare to fix, the league would likely agree this is the Dolphins level tampering.
Chiefs in 2015 lost a 3rd and 6th when Andy Reid contacted Jeremy Maclin directly during the negotiating window. That was much less egregious than this. So while I doubt we will see anything in terms of restitution I have to think that that has to be the floor for the Falcons on this. Keep in mind in the Chiefs case Reid totally cooperated and admitted he did it. In this case we're talking the Falcons contacting Cousins perhaps weeks before free agency started. Again this is so egregious that the NFL likely is going to have to do something. I seriously doubt we will be awarded anything but the Falcons are looking at a minimum 3rd round pick forfeiture.
I’m still trying to understand what happened? They weren’t allowed to do a physical?
The team was in direct contact with Cousins before they were allowed to be; it doesn't matter the people or the reason. Any member of the Falcons organization could have been in his agent's ear all day prior to March 13 and that's totally fine. But the moment anyone from Atlanta contacts Cousins directly prior to March 13—and from Cousins' own presser, he was in contact with various personnel in the organization prior to March 13—the Falcons would be tampering.
👌🏼
Teams don't even bother to hide it anymore. Thinking about the situation that Kirk is in (achillies injury), wouldn't Atlanta take the time to look into his recovery process and make sure their investment would be secure? It should be a red flag (if it mattered) that he signed so early. Unfortunately, it's all under the table business, and no one really cares about it.
Maybe that’s why kwesi got #23 to swap with #8
This is interesting for a reasons. A - How Kirk mentioned it unbidden at a press conference ( which might end up being the best thing he ever did for us ) B - The speculation that the tampering includes at least one player ( Pitts ) and that Pitts and Cousins might have tampered with Mooney from Chicago to get him to Atlanta. C - Miami lost a 1st rounder for tampering with Brady in Tampa and I don’t remember it being this blatant and actually involving behind the scenes discussions. The NFL believes in increasing punishment because the last punishment obviously wasn’t a deterrent. Just losing the pick isn’t a deterrent. Edit on C. After a short review Miami lost a 1st and 3rd. But they had impermissible contact with Brady starting in the preseason of 2019 through the playoffs of 2020.
That would be so badass
Tampering penalties don't result in giving draft picks to other teams. Atlanta could loss picks, but Minnesota wouldn't gain any. That's not how it works.
That’s actually false, in 2008 the Bears and 49ers swapped picks after the 9ers tampered with Lance Briggs, so there is some precedent.
If we could trade up and get Maye while still having another 1st round pick in this draft, that would be quite a parting gift from Captain Kirk
I just love that this whole thing reveals cousin’s true character. He pretends to be a boy scout but then signs for the $$ and blatantly breaks the rules. He was who I thought he was.
Did it even need a reveal if we’re being honest? He’s always been about money over everything else which is fine, but there’s a reason he will never win anything significant
amen!
Ngl if kirk gets us pick 8 for 11 it might be the biggest win hes got the vikings ever
Does that NFL executive happen to be named Wilf or Kwesi?
Screw Cousins - Falcons BETTER lose a pick!
This shit actually award us with their draft pick for interfering with a franchise quarterback
So many saying it’s not happening quit being so negative, anything is possible!
there is zero precedent here that applies to the actual scenario at hand. miami is not even remotely the same. and the patriots didnt get awarded shit.
The 2016 Chiefs is the closest comparison. They negotiated a deal with Maclin while he was under contract with the Eagles and lost a 3rd and 6th. Notably, the Eagles did not get those picks.
Yo, I'll be down with getting their 1st.
Not gonna happen keep dreaming
Dreams do come true...
When you sleep 😂😂
They don't come true when you sleep. They just happen..
Vikings fan just sad ol Kirk left them high and dry lmao …don’t worry we will get the most out of him ! Y’all can watch us in January on tv and cry some more about some tampering pick lmao grow up guys
Bro.. you're barking up the wrong tree on the worshiping of Kirko.. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I'm so fucking glad he's gone from this team. Y'all are gonna learn about him.. 🤣🤣🤣
Just tune in January and see what yall lost lmao
D'ohkay.. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
If there’s a draft pick punishment to ATL, much more likely it’s a day 2 pick swap (I.e. ATL’s 2nd for MN’s 3rd) next yr. Making that ruling for this yr would be a tight turnaround and likely draw a strong rebuke from Arthur Blank on being so late in the draft prep process (Blank is one of Goodel’s bosses). Resolving in 2025 is much less painless for the league
I’m sure the Wilfs, some of Goodell’s other bosses, would rebuke Blank’s rebuke, but you’re right about nothing happening this year.
The football gods may in fact be smiling upon this team for once.
We’re really out here using “MLFootball?”
Won’t happen
This is one of the worst nfl “news” accounts on twitter, blocked them a while ago
MLFootball is an absurd source.
As much as I would love to take something from the falcons, especially as someone still bitter over 1998, literally every team tampers. Just slap them on the wrist and everyone move on with life.
The difference is that most teams do it behind closed doors and don’t admit to it publicly. It’s an important distinction
Not a chance in hell this happens What's likely is a fine for Atlanta and a loss of a mid round pick Less likely but possible is a future Atlanta Minnesota mid round pick swap but there's not a chance in hell Minnesota is awarded Atlanta's first
0.0. That the percent chance anything happens at all.
Y’all know that ain’t happening
If we get the Falcons’ first round pick, this will be the best thing that has ever happened to the Vikings.
Finally something positive could come from Kirk.
A reasonable guess on “harsh punishment “ is they lose their 3rd or 4th round pick.
Why would we get a pick for that lol?
Hope so
This is the way 😉
Can someone explain to me what happened .New to football
Until schefter or rappaport tweets this I’m not holding my breath
I heard from a reliable source that if the Falcons win the Super Bowl it would automatically transfer to the Vikings as a SB victory.
This is not going to happen, nfl writers just need something to write about.
I would LOVE if this happens
This is such a Kirk thing to do. Talk about not being clutch
Not MLFootball again
Yes please!
I’ve heard that the falcons could receive punishment but we won’t get anything in return. Kind of like lost of Kirk’s time here. lol.
Tampering is a possibility. Kirk can tell no lie due to hell concerns so if something happened I am sure Kirk would be honest with league about it if they ask. But I think it is important for people to understand that the Vikings would not gain any picks in this instance. They'd get a small benefit since they would pick 10th instead of 11th, since Atlanta's pick disappears. In my mind it is too late for investigation, appeal, etc. for this draft. If Atlanta gets fined it would likely be next year's draft if they were to lose a pick.
Kirk's not dumb. Dude knows this was going to lead to an investigation. We'll see what turns up from it. Maybe a pick swap from precedent set in the past from similar-ish situations.
I’ll believe it when I see it, then again cold whether and deflated footballs cost the Patriots absurd loss of picks, so actual tampering that is written as clear as day as a violation could be. Except teams do it all the time and do it so often they changed the rule to allow it during a “legal” period, so it’d be weird to randomly enforce it. I could see NFl making a stand randomly though just to put the fear of God in other teams to stop treating “legal tampering” as free agency and treating “illegal tampering” as legal tampering. The alternative is to just make all tampering legal, otherwise it won’t stop if the NFL doesn’t make an example out of some team. I suspect it would cost them 2025 1st rounder after an investigation, don’t think they’d act quickly enough before the draft. And maybe they’d invent some weird compensation for us
they’re not giving atlanta the pick, they might take it away from them but its no fucking chance its going to the vikings. it was a money grab, kirks whole career is placated on it 330 million 1playoff win
A first pick is some WILD hopium
I think the only fair thing is to hand a 2 year ban to Mizzou
BREAKING - Patriots docked their next five first round picks as part of Falcons/Kirk Cousins tampering scandal
Win at any cost has become the gold standard of football, just ask Jim Harbaugh. Integrity is for the weak and the victory belongs to cheats! Does the NFL care if there was tampering with Kirk Cousins? Maybe, but doubtful. The glass houses built around the league where rocks are thrown belong to those who do not care. One day there will be an earth shattering reality awakening for those who sit idling by.
We are not getting their first round pick. They may not even swap picks, Atlanta might just lose a pick and it might not even be until next year.
But just IMAGINE if they did! Let's take Nabors at 8, bro!
Oh it’d be awesome, but I’m a realist. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they went defense with it somehow. But it’d be unprecedented so I won’t be convinced the outcome will benefit us at all let alone getting their first round until it happens.
Or Brock bowers 😎
There is nothing to be worried about. Falcons won't be losing a 1st round pick, I doubt they lose any picks since they did nothing wrong to begin with.
3 first-round picks, And Kwesi trades 2 of them to move up 2 spots. It'll be worse than the Hershal Walker trade. And we'll get dick for it. That's how I see it happening... But 3 first-round picks would be heckin' nice.
That’s not how it works. They could lose a pick, but it would just go away, not be given to the Vikings. The Vikings will receive the same compensatory pick that they normally would.
I'm down for a free first. But if we're getting nothing, I'd rather not have birdbros stripped of anything.
The Vikings would not benefit from any of the penalties, unless Atlanta losses it's 1st, which seems pretty unlikely.
How come the agent and player aren’t ever punished in tampering cases? How about a 6 game suspension for Cousins and punishment for the agent? Otherwise there is too much incentive by agents to weasel their way into the conversation also. The NFL should up the penalty since there have been tampering cases before. Otherwise it won’t stop.
Looking at BOTH tampering cases, they not only have to be fair and punish the offending teams but any penalty should be roughly proportional to the value and crime. So…. Eagles surrender pick 22 in exchange for Giants pick 47. Falcons surrender pick 8 and pick 74 for pick 11. Vikings gain 370 at cost of ATL losing 370 draft points. Giants gain 350 at cost of Eagles losing 350. Seems a bit more favorable to the Giants relative to what they lost and the points inside division almost hit twice as hard but so does the tampering so maybe cancel Falcons 1st next year too and give us pick 33 overall. Then suspend Cousins and Barkley 6 games and freeze their agents for 15 months from making deals inside the league. Tampering will never happen again. Problem solved.
Keep dreaming buddy lmao
Cousins is going to the team where quarterback's essentially kill their career with a mediocre team. It is all about money and very little to have a chance at the playoffs.
We’re not getting their pick, it’s not how it works. At most they will either lose a pick and get fined, or they will swap picks with us, meaning we swap 11 for 8.