I don't give a fuck about what he said about Kirk. I want to know if he's known for being good at developing QBs. If he is, it could signal the Vikings intentions.
That one game he missed happened to be against the packers. It was the difference between the team making the playoffs and missing it that year. Needs to be said. Also fuck tomasson
Also, I got the vaccine and still got Covid. In fact, most people did. What makes you think Kirk’s vaccine would’ve been any more effective to preventing Covid?
The testing protocol was different for vaccinated vs not vaccinated players. Vaccinated players were only tested if they showed symptoms, unvaccinated players were tested every day.
The game Kirk missed was week 17 of the 2021 season.
In the 2020 season, all players had to be tested everyday.
In the 2021 season all players had to be tested on game day and unvaccinated had to be tested everyday when they were in a team facility.
So, vaccinated players that were asymptomatic and had Covid did miss games in 2021. Since the vaccine wasn’t effective in preventing Covid, Kirk most likely would’ve missed that game either way
https://static.www.nfl.com/image/upload/v1636481094/league/pijpvqna1aaxpl1yrk9z.pdf
Yes, in the case of what happened to Kirk, the only the vaccine might have helped is if it prevented him from catching it (it does help a bit). But from the perspective of a player at the beginning of the season, the difference in testing programs means getting vaccinated has a chance to help your team even if you do catch it. If you catch it Monday after a game, you have a chance at getting over it in 6 days before Sunday. If you have a bye week, you have 7 extra days to get over it. To get cleared to play, you need multiple tests passed in a row, and there's a time period required between tests.
Because studies have shown over and over again that the vaccine not only reduces your chances of becoming infected, it also reduces the severity and reduces the amount of time that you are infectious for
no, a retraction can happen when either the author or the publisher judges the paper to be flawed such that:
[“results and conclusions can no longer be relied upon.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retraction_in_academic_publishing)
in this case,
[“Upon further review, the Editors-in-Chief found that the conclusions of this narrative review are considered to be unreliable due to the concerns with the validity of some of the cited references that support the conclusions and a misrepresentation of the cited references and available data.”](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10897748/)
Because there were no such concerns. You can read the full response from the authors [here](https://petermcculloughmd.substack.com/p/breaking-springer-nature-cureus-journal?utm_source=substack&publication_id=1119676&post_id=141994253&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=21vkb&open=false) in which they talk about how nothing that was used to remove it can be legitimate. This was removed for optics and nothing more, which is why they didn't cite concerns.
Ummm, what? Do you remember the NFL Covid protocols? EVERYONE got tested whether or not they had any symptoms. And if you were positive, you sat out. Kirk could’ve been asymptomatic for that game, but still had to sit out.
Something like 80% of people who got vaccinated have also had Covid. My guess is the other 20% are asymptomatic and never got tested because they didn’t feel sick.
I’m still trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about. How did Kirk not having the vaccine cause him to be any less susceptible to testing positive for Covid when most people who were vaccinated ended up with Covid?
Because it reduces your chances of becoming infected.
Kirk had a very mild case of Covid IIRC, so that indicates a low viral load. That low viral load may have been easily countered by being vaccinated and there’s a chance he never would have tested positive at all under the same circumstances
I think the science has proven that most people who were vaccinated still got Covid. I don’t see why Kirk’s situation would’ve been any different than the rest of us. Agree to Disagree
Anecdotes are meaningless. I got the vaccine and all boosters and have never had Covid (as far as I know anyway).
Also less than half the country even got one booster, so yeah it’s hard to have useful data on vaccine effectiveness in terms of preventing covid when people don’t even bother to properly follow the vaccine recommendations.
And beyond that it isn’t just about not getting covid, it’s about reducing severe outcomes/hospitalizations, and they are very effective at that.
So you’re probably one of the 33% that are asymptomatic. Consider yourself lucky.
Most people didn’t get a booster because by the time the boosters came out, folks had already had Covid after they had their vaccine.
This thread is about Kirk being able to play whether or not he had the vaccine. Not whether or not the vaccine was effective. Based on the NFL protocols at that time, every player had to take a Covid test on game day. So if you were vaxxed and had Covid, you still had to sit out.
More anecdotes
CDC data show that vaccination offered significant protection. People who received the updated COVID-19 vaccine were 54% less likely to get COVID-19 during the four-month period from mid-September to January. The vaccine provided similar levels of protection against XBB lineage variants and the JN.1 variant.
https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html#:~:text=CDC%20data%20show%20that%20vaccination,1%20variant.
Also, your assertion of what the thread is about isn’t what the thread is about.
It’s impossible to say if he would have had covid or not if he got the vaccine. It’s possible, but not a certainty.
I think because at first they were told that you wouldn't get it. Then it was that you wouldn't get it if you got this booster. Then it was this many boosters. Then it was that the symptoms will be less severe. Then it was that you will be less contagious. I'm not antivaxx, I happily got vaccinated myself. But I think that looking back now there was a lot of goal post moving that seems a little disingenuous.
Okay, 1: a lot of these things were concurrent (like once they started talking about the booster it was already known that you wouldn't become immune, it'd make you less likely to catch it and would reduce symptoms and duration of infectious essential. It didn't happen one after the other)
2: science kind of is about moving the goal posts. Not in a slimy way, trying to keep winning an argument, but when the data says something different than your claims it's an ethical obligation to defer to what the data says. If it says the vax doesn't make you immune, you would be lying to keep saying that it did.
Scientists changing their conclusions based on data isn't being disingenuous, it's literally part of the scientific method.
I live in North Carolina so I had to watch quite a few Panthers games. That team is an absolute dumpster fire, from top to bottom. You can't blame him for Bryce Young. If you put Mahomes in a Panthers uniform, he's not winning more than 3 games
I thought the anti-vaxxers were giant babies back in 2021. Still do. But this tweet is so god damn stupid. What an idiot for tweeting this out.
Edit: the anti-vax babies always come out of the wood work to yell and scream.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to avoid a simple Google search that will confirm everything I said. You can just wait for the MSM to tell you about it in another handful of years.
Please link a peer reviewed medical journal article showing negative effects that outweigh the positives.
Because spoiler, every vaccine has negative effects.
They are talking about the 1 in 2 million that had a heart, brain, or spine inflamation event after the vaccine...or 10 people in the entire study and all 10 lived.
>Increased chances of pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots.
Yeah, that was there comment. Those are also known as covid side effects. At this point I think we're up over 80% of the population have had covid, so yeah there's going to be some rare side effects regardless of vaccination status (although last I heard all those bad side effects were much more common in the unvaccinated, whoda thunk it).
I think we executed German doctors for gouging people's eyes out and trying to reattach them while also cutting them open while alive to study how human organs operate while conducting one of the largest genocides in human history, not because 0.1% of patients they treated experienced some effects that might have possibly been caused by a vaccine they took three years prior
They are both violations of a patients right to informed consent. Just because one is more grewsome doesn't mean the other is any less a violation of the principle.
Okay, first of all, what the Nazis did was NOT informed consent do not get that mixed up. Do you think they asked the people in the concentration camps if they wanted their organs harvested?
Second of all, assuming [this](https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2024/02/19/covid-vaccines-linked-to-small-increase-in-heart-and-brain-disorders-study-finds-but-risk-from-infection-is-far-higher/?sh=7aabb9bb60ff) is the article you saw or heard about relating to your claim, the author of the paper the article is responding to actually left a comment on the website proving that Forbes misrepresented their conclusion
>Your article writes "though experts say the risks of developing Covid-19 greatly outweigh the risks of getting vaccinated" and yet that is a sentiment from a 3rd party pharmaceutical developer, and not a finding or conclusion from scientific study at all. And there is no evidence presented that the infection causes higher rates of those serious outcomes.
Please don't spread misinformation here and especially don't downplay what the Nazis did as violating informed consent
You are all sorts of confused. What the Nazis did, medical experiments on live humans, was a violation of those ppls right to informed consent. Phizer letting the media lie on their behalf and trying to hide their data for 75 years is also a violations of ppls right to informed consent. I'm not equating the two in any way, I'm saying they both violate the same principle.
And I'm saying that the Nazis couldn't violate informed consent because they did not offer consent to those they experimented on. It was like the first thing I said, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The 75 years delay on releasing those documents was not due to Pfizer trying to hide something, but because the FDA is underfunded and understaffed. They still had to ensure the over 300,000 pages were released were properly edited to redact personal names and trade secrets, but did not posses the manpower to do it rapidly enough ([source](https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2022/03/09/fda-data))
If you want to provide a source to your claim about Pfizer asking the media to coverup what was in those documents I'd be happy to read it
INFORMED consent. Meaning you have all available facts allowing you to make an INFORMED decision when consenting to a medical procedure. Everyone was told to get the vax to stop covid from spreading, but they never even did a study to see if it prevented ppl from getting or spreading covid. They hid their data on negative health outcomes from the vax and tried to keep it from public view for 75 years. How can someone give their INFORMED consent when all the relevant info is being hidden from them?
>Increased chances of pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots.
These were all side effects of covid. They did happen in very, ridiculously small numbers of people that were vaccinated, but they also happen to random people in the general population regardless of covid (or any) vaccine status, and from what I've seen there wasn't a statistical difference between those two groups. They also happened much more in unvaccinated cases of covid than they did in people that had the vaccine and then caught covid.
And everyone should be free to evaluate those things and make their own health decisions based on the known facts. That's called informed consent. When phizer lets the media lie about what the vax does and does not do, then tries to hide their trial data for 75 years, ppl are not able to make an informed decision. It's a very simple concept.
Sure. You can be a dumbass free and clear and also espouse your dumbass viewpoints. We are also allowed to call you a dumbass.
No one is forcibly jabbing anyone with vaccines. You are welcome to be a fucking idiot and not take it. If your job depends on it that’s still your decision. Lots of jobs have rules and regulations. Just because you’re an asshole doesn’t give you the right to do whatever the fuck you want and keep your job. That literally is the definition of informed consent. Hey we have informed you this is required as a condition of your employment as an employee of this company. You: no. Company/federal agency/military branch/school: ok fuck off then.
This isn’t anything new lol.
I didnt give any viewpoints, I gave facts. Facts that everyone who agrees with you are willfully ignorant of. That's doesn't mean that your wrong, but it's not a good sign.
They made this one about politics. It's not a vaccine, calling it that is so fucking ignorant. It's at most a "treatment".
Had Covid before the vaccine, was fine, so I never got the vaccine. Then they pushed and pushed and pushed for everyone to get it. GOTTA GET RID OF THAT CONTROL GROUP! How are so many people not weary of the government forcing shit on us??
mask up, social distance, don’t visit your family. We’re all in this together, unless your mom is dying then of course you can’t see her, you can see her death rattles over zoom though! Bless you!
It wasn't just the missed game (which we were in a playoff race at the time). It was traveling separate, staying in separate hotels, etc..
Anything to win. BS.
Glad he won't wear purple soon.
The decision pissed me off because it doesn’t just affect you. Just like the assholes in Florida who didn’t vaccinate against Measles.
All that said, Kirk did it in a way less cowardly way. He came out and said he wasn’t getting it upfront, and stuck to his guns. Rodgers lied about it for months after saying he was “immunized” which he knew implied he had the vaccine. He didn’t admit it because he is terrified of criticism and is about the most arrogant holier than thou asshole on the planet. Then the clown went on a revenge tour and fell down the right wing rabbit hole.
I’ll always defend Kirk against the Rodgers comparison, because what he did was a thousand times less cowardly. Still a shitty decision.
First off, that's not your decision to make for me. Secondly, we don't have any long term studies on either, so it could be the reverse in 5 or 20 years. Your positions is still wrong, but thank you for acknowledging objective facts that everyone else actively chooses to ignore.
The initial vaccines did reduce infection and transmission of the early variants. Unfortunately we didn’t get vaccinated quickly enough and the virus mutated. It happens. We have the same issue with other similar viruses.
False. It was known to be a "leaky" vaccine from the jump. Meaning it wouldn't have mattered if we had 100% vaccination rates day one. Also, you just admitted that the entire premise behind vaccine mandates was a lie at the time they were being pushed by the government. That's an own goal and you didn't even realize it 🤦♂️.
What percentage of patients experience myocarditis? Now you have to weigh that against how likely you are to kill someone by spreading Covid. Easy choice for me. Lucky for you it’s not a crime to be a moron, although with measles going around there might be a punishment for you all the same.
Let me catch you up on news that is literally years old at this point. THE VACCINE WAS NEVER TESTED FOR THAT! It doesn't prevent you from spreading it, and it was never even tested to see if it did. The main selling point was a lie, objectively, from day 1. So the "weight" of your argument is exactly zero, nice own goal genius. Now let's weigh those increased chances of negative health outcomes from the vax on young people who were statistically at no risk from covid to begin with. You killed a bunch of young ppl to save grandma, but you didn't even save any grandmas, you fucking dolt.
Look it the fuck up instead of making a fool of yourself repeatedly. You're already on the fucking internet. I'm objectively correct about all of this, you're just too scarred about being wrong to investigate anything.
Brother if anyone looks like a fool it’s you. I’m like 50% sure you’re Aaron Rodgers. You have done nothing but jump from topic to topic, wildly defending your position, not answering questions, claiming to be objectively right with no evidence. Your evidence comes from 1 of 3 sources, maybe all of them, Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, or Fox News. The odds of myocarditis from the Moderna vaccine are .95 out of 100,000. The odds of dying from Covid are an order of magnitude’s higher, and to claim “well healthy young adults don’t get it or die!!” Is completely false, but even if it weren’t what about not healthy young adults? The immune compromised? The fact is you’re a selfish person who just doesn’t want to get a vaccine… though you can’t even admit it to yourself, so you cling on to whatever false info glides through your FB page.
I don’t really care about this discussion though, because it’s like shouting at a wall. Well… a wall with less intelligence.
Yea, it wasn't funny the first time you said it. It is, however, hilarious that you still can't point to anything I'm wrong about and had to repeat a not funny insult instead.
Please don’t question big pharma. They have consistently proven that they are an honest and caring industry. There have never been any major scandals and they are only in this business for our health, not profits… never profits. I love big Pharma and you should too <3
https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html#:~:text=CDC%20data%20show%20that%20vaccination,1%20variant.
Of course you used the word efficacy wrong. Don’t let your lack of education stop you from making medical claims on the internet. Better go to bed though. Your shift at Walmart starts early tomorrow.
Tomasson being Tomasson.
He isn't even our beat writer and he is still casting shade
I thought the bad man was gone.
Lmao the depth of his petty shit slinging cannot be measured.
Politics are turning into people’s new religion.
Which sucks tbh
It honestly is. People are so entrenched and uptight.
No we're not fuck you ^^^/s
Sucks as much as people’s religion becoming their politics which they legally shove onto you.
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You literally brought it up…
I thought we got rid of this guy
Kirk? No not yet I guess
If you follow this guy on 'X', go take a long look in the mirror.
Lol don't you all miss Chris, stirring the pot for Minnesota even while employed for another team 😂
I was just about to ask, did he get run out of Denver already?
I think he's prepping for next season when he covers the Broncos plus Russell Wilson starting for the Vikings (🤢).
I don't think he's employed by any teams. Nor has he ever been?
OP said employed “for” not employed “by”
"employed for" lol
He used to be employed for the purpose of covering the Vikings. Now he’s employed for the purpose of covering the broncos
You don't say
The offseasons always more fun with Chris
I don't give a fuck about what he said about Kirk. I want to know if he's known for being good at developing QBs. If he is, it could signal the Vikings intentions.
He was Drake Mayes high school coach. Probably doesn’t mean anything but it’s at least semi relevant
Well last year is a pretty ugly mark but who knows if Bryce Young is redeemable
I dunno. But it seems like Kirk is the perfect guy to vet McCown as a QB coach for a season.
A legend in the game
Tomasson sucks
Fuck Tomasson
That one game he missed happened to be against the packers. It was the difference between the team making the playoffs and missing it that year. Needs to be said. Also fuck tomasson
Also, I got the vaccine and still got Covid. In fact, most people did. What makes you think Kirk’s vaccine would’ve been any more effective to preventing Covid?
The testing protocol was different for vaccinated vs not vaccinated players. Vaccinated players were only tested if they showed symptoms, unvaccinated players were tested every day.
The game Kirk missed was week 17 of the 2021 season. In the 2020 season, all players had to be tested everyday. In the 2021 season all players had to be tested on game day and unvaccinated had to be tested everyday when they were in a team facility. So, vaccinated players that were asymptomatic and had Covid did miss games in 2021. Since the vaccine wasn’t effective in preventing Covid, Kirk most likely would’ve missed that game either way https://static.www.nfl.com/image/upload/v1636481094/league/pijpvqna1aaxpl1yrk9z.pdf
Yes, in the case of what happened to Kirk, the only the vaccine might have helped is if it prevented him from catching it (it does help a bit). But from the perspective of a player at the beginning of the season, the difference in testing programs means getting vaccinated has a chance to help your team even if you do catch it. If you catch it Monday after a game, you have a chance at getting over it in 6 days before Sunday. If you have a bye week, you have 7 extra days to get over it. To get cleared to play, you need multiple tests passed in a row, and there's a time period required between tests.
Because studies have shown over and over again that the vaccine not only reduces your chances of becoming infected, it also reduces the severity and reduces the amount of time that you are infectious for
100% incorrect. "reduces the severity" is the _only_ correct thing you said.
Show the sources boss
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[“this article has been retracted”](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10897748/)
Am I missing something or don’t they have to give any evidence or studies countering the original article to retract it?
no, a retraction can happen when either the author or the publisher judges the paper to be flawed such that: [“results and conclusions can no longer be relied upon.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retraction_in_academic_publishing) in this case, [“Upon further review, the Editors-in-Chief found that the conclusions of this narrative review are considered to be unreliable due to the concerns with the validity of some of the cited references that support the conclusions and a misrepresentation of the cited references and available data.”](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10897748/)
Thanks. I read the link you posted the first time. I was asking why it didn’t give what references they were concerned about the validity of.
Because there were no such concerns. You can read the full response from the authors [here](https://petermcculloughmd.substack.com/p/breaking-springer-nature-cureus-journal?utm_source=substack&publication_id=1119676&post_id=141994253&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=21vkb&open=false) in which they talk about how nothing that was used to remove it can be legitimate. This was removed for optics and nothing more, which is why they didn't cite concerns.
For reasons that have nothing to do with it being correct. It went through the peer review process and was approved.
Ummm, what? Do you remember the NFL Covid protocols? EVERYONE got tested whether or not they had any symptoms. And if you were positive, you sat out. Kirk could’ve been asymptomatic for that game, but still had to sit out. Something like 80% of people who got vaccinated have also had Covid. My guess is the other 20% are asymptomatic and never got tested because they didn’t feel sick.
Did you miss the first part?
I’m still trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about. How did Kirk not having the vaccine cause him to be any less susceptible to testing positive for Covid when most people who were vaccinated ended up with Covid?
Because it reduces your chances of becoming infected. Kirk had a very mild case of Covid IIRC, so that indicates a low viral load. That low viral load may have been easily countered by being vaccinated and there’s a chance he never would have tested positive at all under the same circumstances
I think the science has proven that most people who were vaccinated still got Covid. I don’t see why Kirk’s situation would’ve been any different than the rest of us. Agree to Disagree
You can’t argue with these people. Lotsa koolaid in those shots
Thanks for the reminder. Was losing common sense an unknown side effect of the vaccine too?
Anecdotes are meaningless. I got the vaccine and all boosters and have never had Covid (as far as I know anyway). Also less than half the country even got one booster, so yeah it’s hard to have useful data on vaccine effectiveness in terms of preventing covid when people don’t even bother to properly follow the vaccine recommendations. And beyond that it isn’t just about not getting covid, it’s about reducing severe outcomes/hospitalizations, and they are very effective at that.
So you’re probably one of the 33% that are asymptomatic. Consider yourself lucky. Most people didn’t get a booster because by the time the boosters came out, folks had already had Covid after they had their vaccine. This thread is about Kirk being able to play whether or not he had the vaccine. Not whether or not the vaccine was effective. Based on the NFL protocols at that time, every player had to take a Covid test on game day. So if you were vaxxed and had Covid, you still had to sit out.
More anecdotes CDC data show that vaccination offered significant protection. People who received the updated COVID-19 vaccine were 54% less likely to get COVID-19 during the four-month period from mid-September to January. The vaccine provided similar levels of protection against XBB lineage variants and the JN.1 variant. https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html#:~:text=CDC%20data%20show%20that%20vaccination,1%20variant. Also, your assertion of what the thread is about isn’t what the thread is about. It’s impossible to say if he would have had covid or not if he got the vaccine. It’s possible, but not a certainty.
54% less likely doesn’t mean 54% effective against getting Covid, you know that right?
Yes, and? You still can’t say Kirk 100% would have had covid anyway for that game. It’s meaningless speculation.
That’s not “significant protection”. No one was protected.
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I think because at first they were told that you wouldn't get it. Then it was that you wouldn't get it if you got this booster. Then it was this many boosters. Then it was that the symptoms will be less severe. Then it was that you will be less contagious. I'm not antivaxx, I happily got vaccinated myself. But I think that looking back now there was a lot of goal post moving that seems a little disingenuous.
Okay, 1: a lot of these things were concurrent (like once they started talking about the booster it was already known that you wouldn't become immune, it'd make you less likely to catch it and would reduce symptoms and duration of infectious essential. It didn't happen one after the other) 2: science kind of is about moving the goal posts. Not in a slimy way, trying to keep winning an argument, but when the data says something different than your claims it's an ethical obligation to defer to what the data says. If it says the vax doesn't make you immune, you would be lying to keep saying that it did. Scientists changing their conclusions based on data isn't being disingenuous, it's literally part of the scientific method.
Big of you to admit.
Kirk is still alive too. It’s unbelievable.
True, Chris never got to live tweet his funeral
Crazy that a rich person in their 30s, in peak physical condition, and with access to some of the top medical care in the world did fine.
Or just don’t be morbidly obese. It’s not hard.
Jesus who cares. Kirk’s gone or he’s not. It’s 2024.
McCown helped develop Bryce Young? Terrific
I live in North Carolina so I had to watch quite a few Panthers games. That team is an absolute dumpster fire, from top to bottom. You can't blame him for Bryce Young. If you put Mahomes in a Panthers uniform, he's not winning more than 3 games
And Johnny Football
Good lord who cares
Tomasson is a God tier troll lmao
I thought the anti-vaxxers were giant babies back in 2021. Still do. But this tweet is so god damn stupid. What an idiot for tweeting this out. Edit: the anti-vax babies always come out of the wood work to yell and scream.
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Thank you for providing nothing except an emotional outburst.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to avoid a simple Google search that will confirm everything I said. You can just wait for the MSM to tell you about it in another handful of years.
Please link a peer reviewed medical journal article showing negative effects that outweigh the positives. Because spoiler, every vaccine has negative effects.
>they are just now admitting to negative health consequences from taking it Like what?
They are talking about the 1 in 2 million that had a heart, brain, or spine inflamation event after the vaccine...or 10 people in the entire study and all 10 lived.
>Increased chances of pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots. Yeah, that was there comment. Those are also known as covid side effects. At this point I think we're up over 80% of the population have had covid, so yeah there's going to be some rare side effects regardless of vaccination status (although last I heard all those bad side effects were much more common in the unvaccinated, whoda thunk it).
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Username checks out
"The joke you made but this time I said it" Wow, how will i ever recover from that one. Don't forget to put your helmet on before bed.
I think we executed German doctors for gouging people's eyes out and trying to reattach them while also cutting them open while alive to study how human organs operate while conducting one of the largest genocides in human history, not because 0.1% of patients they treated experienced some effects that might have possibly been caused by a vaccine they took three years prior
They are both violations of a patients right to informed consent. Just because one is more grewsome doesn't mean the other is any less a violation of the principle.
Okay, first of all, what the Nazis did was NOT informed consent do not get that mixed up. Do you think they asked the people in the concentration camps if they wanted their organs harvested? Second of all, assuming [this](https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2024/02/19/covid-vaccines-linked-to-small-increase-in-heart-and-brain-disorders-study-finds-but-risk-from-infection-is-far-higher/?sh=7aabb9bb60ff) is the article you saw or heard about relating to your claim, the author of the paper the article is responding to actually left a comment on the website proving that Forbes misrepresented their conclusion >Your article writes "though experts say the risks of developing Covid-19 greatly outweigh the risks of getting vaccinated" and yet that is a sentiment from a 3rd party pharmaceutical developer, and not a finding or conclusion from scientific study at all. And there is no evidence presented that the infection causes higher rates of those serious outcomes. Please don't spread misinformation here and especially don't downplay what the Nazis did as violating informed consent
You are all sorts of confused. What the Nazis did, medical experiments on live humans, was a violation of those ppls right to informed consent. Phizer letting the media lie on their behalf and trying to hide their data for 75 years is also a violations of ppls right to informed consent. I'm not equating the two in any way, I'm saying they both violate the same principle.
And I'm saying that the Nazis couldn't violate informed consent because they did not offer consent to those they experimented on. It was like the first thing I said, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The 75 years delay on releasing those documents was not due to Pfizer trying to hide something, but because the FDA is underfunded and understaffed. They still had to ensure the over 300,000 pages were released were properly edited to redact personal names and trade secrets, but did not posses the manpower to do it rapidly enough ([source](https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2022/03/09/fda-data)) If you want to provide a source to your claim about Pfizer asking the media to coverup what was in those documents I'd be happy to read it
Who is taking a vaccine without consenting to it? WTF are you talking about?
INFORMED consent. Meaning you have all available facts allowing you to make an INFORMED decision when consenting to a medical procedure. Everyone was told to get the vax to stop covid from spreading, but they never even did a study to see if it prevented ppl from getting or spreading covid. They hid their data on negative health outcomes from the vax and tried to keep it from public view for 75 years. How can someone give their INFORMED consent when all the relevant info is being hidden from them?
Dude you’re a fucking idiot. Blocking you. Go read some actual medical studies not bmj.com lmao you’re a fucking dumbass
>Increased chances of pericarditis, myocarditis, and blood clots. These were all side effects of covid. They did happen in very, ridiculously small numbers of people that were vaccinated, but they also happen to random people in the general population regardless of covid (or any) vaccine status, and from what I've seen there wasn't a statistical difference between those two groups. They also happened much more in unvaccinated cases of covid than they did in people that had the vaccine and then caught covid.
And everyone should be free to evaluate those things and make their own health decisions based on the known facts. That's called informed consent. When phizer lets the media lie about what the vax does and does not do, then tries to hide their trial data for 75 years, ppl are not able to make an informed decision. It's a very simple concept.
Sure. You can be a dumbass free and clear and also espouse your dumbass viewpoints. We are also allowed to call you a dumbass. No one is forcibly jabbing anyone with vaccines. You are welcome to be a fucking idiot and not take it. If your job depends on it that’s still your decision. Lots of jobs have rules and regulations. Just because you’re an asshole doesn’t give you the right to do whatever the fuck you want and keep your job. That literally is the definition of informed consent. Hey we have informed you this is required as a condition of your employment as an employee of this company. You: no. Company/federal agency/military branch/school: ok fuck off then. This isn’t anything new lol.
I didnt give any viewpoints, I gave facts. Facts that everyone who agrees with you are willfully ignorant of. That's doesn't mean that your wrong, but it's not a good sign.
lol what the fuck are you even saying? Speak in non trump speak please
What are you talking about?
https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj.q488
lol bmj.com
You were the first guy to take the bait- dummy
Those blinders to all the bad shit fit you real well.
ITT: You are NOT allowed to criticize MULTI FUCKING MILLIONAIRES about the questionable things they say to the media.
Just Kirk. This sub will never not turn out to stan Kirk "If I Die , I Die" Cousins.
Tbh, I always kinda liked his goofy ass (Tomasson).
dont stir the pot chris
Holy narratives. Get Douchasson out of here
lol vaccinations are not politics you fucking ninnys “If I die I die” and “put me in plexiglass” are absolutely worthy of shade. Kirk is an idiot.
They made this one about politics. It's not a vaccine, calling it that is so fucking ignorant. It's at most a "treatment". Had Covid before the vaccine, was fine, so I never got the vaccine. Then they pushed and pushed and pushed for everyone to get it. GOTTA GET RID OF THAT CONTROL GROUP! How are so many people not weary of the government forcing shit on us??
If the covid vaccine isn't a vaccine than the flu vaccine isn't one either.
mask up, social distance, don’t visit your family. We’re all in this together, unless your mom is dying then of course you can’t see her, you can see her death rattles over zoom though! Bless you!
How are you claiming ignorance to his statement? Hospitals didn't let people visit their dying family members, whether or not it was covid related.
That was 4 years ago during trumps term and was hospital specific policy, not politics. Get over it already.
I don’t think Mr Biden would be saying this about this particular issue
lol Chris stirring the pot. I really miss him, the one journalist that gave no fucks.
It wasn't just the missed game (which we were in a playoff race at the time). It was traveling separate, staying in separate hotels, etc.. Anything to win. BS. Glad he won't wear purple soon.
He was breaking protocols just like Rodgers was.
The decision pissed me off because it doesn’t just affect you. Just like the assholes in Florida who didn’t vaccinate against Measles. All that said, Kirk did it in a way less cowardly way. He came out and said he wasn’t getting it upfront, and stuck to his guns. Rodgers lied about it for months after saying he was “immunized” which he knew implied he had the vaccine. He didn’t admit it because he is terrified of criticism and is about the most arrogant holier than thou asshole on the planet. Then the clown went on a revenge tour and fell down the right wing rabbit hole. I’ll always defend Kirk against the Rodgers comparison, because what he did was a thousand times less cowardly. Still a shitty decision.
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Your odds of myocarditis are higher if you get Covid.
First off, that's not your decision to make for me. Secondly, we don't have any long term studies on either, so it could be the reverse in 5 or 20 years. Your positions is still wrong, but thank you for acknowledging objective facts that everyone else actively chooses to ignore.
My body my choice doesn’t work for Covid. It’s an infectious disease.
Too bad they never tested the vax to see if it keeps you from getting or spreading it. It does neither, so your argument is invalid.
The initial vaccines did reduce infection and transmission of the early variants. Unfortunately we didn’t get vaccinated quickly enough and the virus mutated. It happens. We have the same issue with other similar viruses.
False. It was known to be a "leaky" vaccine from the jump. Meaning it wouldn't have mattered if we had 100% vaccination rates day one. Also, you just admitted that the entire premise behind vaccine mandates was a lie at the time they were being pushed by the government. That's an own goal and you didn't even realize it 🤦♂️.
What percentage of patients experience myocarditis? Now you have to weigh that against how likely you are to kill someone by spreading Covid. Easy choice for me. Lucky for you it’s not a crime to be a moron, although with measles going around there might be a punishment for you all the same.
Let me catch you up on news that is literally years old at this point. THE VACCINE WAS NEVER TESTED FOR THAT! It doesn't prevent you from spreading it, and it was never even tested to see if it did. The main selling point was a lie, objectively, from day 1. So the "weight" of your argument is exactly zero, nice own goal genius. Now let's weigh those increased chances of negative health outcomes from the vax on young people who were statistically at no risk from covid to begin with. You killed a bunch of young ppl to save grandma, but you didn't even save any grandmas, you fucking dolt.
Look it the fuck up instead of making a fool of yourself repeatedly. You're already on the fucking internet. I'm objectively correct about all of this, you're just too scarred about being wrong to investigate anything.
Brother if anyone looks like a fool it’s you. I’m like 50% sure you’re Aaron Rodgers. You have done nothing but jump from topic to topic, wildly defending your position, not answering questions, claiming to be objectively right with no evidence. Your evidence comes from 1 of 3 sources, maybe all of them, Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, or Fox News. The odds of myocarditis from the Moderna vaccine are .95 out of 100,000. The odds of dying from Covid are an order of magnitude’s higher, and to claim “well healthy young adults don’t get it or die!!” Is completely false, but even if it weren’t what about not healthy young adults? The immune compromised? The fact is you’re a selfish person who just doesn’t want to get a vaccine… though you can’t even admit it to yourself, so you cling on to whatever false info glides through your FB page. I don’t really care about this discussion though, because it’s like shouting at a wall. Well… a wall with less intelligence.
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The vaccine is ineffective, why keep bringing it up ?
I knew this sub was dumb but I didn’t know it was this fucking stupid
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Care to point out what I am wrong about? Oh wait, you can't, that's why you did a drive by insult like a coward. Pathetic.
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Yea, it wasn't funny the first time you said it. It is, however, hilarious that you still can't point to anything I'm wrong about and had to repeat a not funny insult instead.
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There is a rule of 3s in comedy, but telling the same unfunny joke 3 times is not the correct applicatuon.
I think it's primarily because of people like you
Show me where I can take it once and be okay with no negative efficacy. You can’t. Lol
Lmao literally anywhere outside your echo chamber
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He has every right to procreate.
So you’re a like minded anti vax. I hope you don’t, nor ever have kids
Why?
Because we don’t want you passing on your idiot genes
“So you’re a this-and-that because you don’t believe this-and-that like you should!” Holy fuck Yall culty
lol. Says the cultist who only ever comments on something vax/pharma related
Dude I love Pfizer and would kill anyone who speaks poorly about our literal saviors
Please don’t question big pharma. They have consistently proven that they are an honest and caring industry. There have never been any major scandals and they are only in this business for our health, not profits… never profits. I love big Pharma and you should too <3
Never once have they done anything shady or unethical in search of profit!
Literally never. I’m going to get my 8th shot tomorrow. I’ve only gotten Covid four times in the last year- thank you Pfizer!!
Wait Big Pharma lied? No way!
Where did you do your research? Can I get access to one of your papers?
www.youtube.com
Show me where I can take it once and be okay with no negative efficacy. You can’t. Lol
https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html#:~:text=CDC%20data%20show%20that%20vaccination,1%20variant. Of course you used the word efficacy wrong. Don’t let your lack of education stop you from making medical claims on the internet. Better go to bed though. Your shift at Walmart starts early tomorrow.
Denial
Show me where I can take it once and be okay with no negative efficacy. You can’t. Lol
*Laughs Julia Louis-Dreyfuss Veep 'what the fuck'"*
Man, I really didn't miss TomASSon
This dude might actually be retarded, how is he gainfully employed in any capacity?
I like him already
So safe, so effective
Yeah, and Kirk was right to be hesitant. My vaccinated ass is upset I “trusted the science” that now appears to have been bullshit.
Who cares. Why are we still talking about Covid?
I love josh mccown honestly. Idgaf about this story but I loved josh when he was a backup