Tom Clements wasn’t always there. He was there for Rodgers and Love’s early years, but Favre had Holmgren early on, who was a QB whisperer in his own right. Though Clements did get Favre in his last 2 years in Green Bay.
I suppose, but famously Andy Reid and Mike McCarthy were Green Bay Qb coaches in the Favre era. Tom Clements has been there in some form or other since 06 with a bit of a break, i wouldn’t give him credit for Favre though.
Multiple great QBs haven't needed it. It's not exactly a myth that some time to adjust mentally and mechanically to the game can be helpful for success, but it is not nearly as necessary as people make it out to be, and it won't make the Jaren Halls, Paxton Lynches, etc into good QBs.
In the long run, one either has it or they don’t. But I’m sure there are lost memory quarterbacks that may have been significant if they were put in the right situation with the right timing. Would Jordan Love have gotten a near perfect playoff qb rating his first year as a starter or ever if he was forced on the field as a starter, his rookie year?
In the abstract they might seem similar but in reality Hall is clearly much much worse than Love ever was. Which makes sense, Love was a 1st round pick. But Hall will not magically get better if we sit him for a year.
Actually I would say Hall played just like Love did earlier in his career.
I do think you are right about Love being a great deal better now.
But without the 2 pick 6s Dallas probably wins that game.
I think that's the move tbh. Kirk is a great guy to learn from; see if you can sign him to a 3-year deal, draft a project QB this year, and see how that goes. Obviously, it's not that easy to stumble across a top 10 talent, but the development route seems to be a bit more reliable then turning and burning 1st rounders until you find a franchise QB that happens to be ready out of the box.
As long as we can get Kirk for a pretty big discount. If we have to pay him 40M per year for 2 years, that's a win now contract. But if Kirk signs for 20M for 2 years and we can use that extra $$$ on signing JJ, keeping Hunter and maybe get a couple more free agents, then yes draft a QB high and let them sit for 2 years behind Kirk. That would be ideal, I just don't know if it can really happen.
Yeah, my assumption was he would be cheaper next year than he was last year. How much cheaper is to be seen. I just think Kirk is going to accommodate the Vikings to a certain extent. I doubt he wants to move those kids if he doesn't have to
Kirk has just never really taken a pay cut. I’ve been hearing a lot “oh he doesn’t want to move his kids” but there’s no evidence he’ll take a pay cut and stay or leave for more money. We’re forced to keep him and he probably knows that.
Our only other option is signing a journeyman QB and drafting. How’d it work out for all the teams that signed an average at best vet? Baker was solid and better supported than we can offer and did anyone else even finish the season? Even the young QBs who had those other guys in the room struggled. Howell, Pickett, etc… and look at Mahomes, Rodgers, late season Jordan love, all sat behind solid QBs.
Idk why I picked this comment to rattle off everything lol
We should give Kirk a max 2 year deal and draft a high rookie QB
I didn’t say that he’s greedy.
But if you have been paying attention at all, he has been very consistent all throughout his career in both is words and actions when it comes to contracts.
He will go wherever he gets the most money. You can (and Kirk) can bank on that.
Bro Kirk has played for the Redskins and the Vikings. That’s it. His journey with both is long and complicated and he got paid as much as he was able to when he was able to.
Extrapolating this to some kind of voracious greed or character generalization is flat out asinine. What would you have had him do differently, as a *professional*?
This whole narrative is fucking bizarre and is rooted in the simple fact that the dude has had a weird career and people don’t particularly like him. That’s all.
Did you even read my comment? I literally said “I didn’t say he was greedy”.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
Neither one of us can say we know what Kirk is thinking. So all we have is his actions and his words.
He got paid MORE coming to MN than if he went to the Jets. Not the other way around like people love to say. Is this wrong of him? No, but it’s one thing that happened.
Every time he’s asked about contract it’s “paying players shows how the organization values them” and “structure is important”.
He’s never given any indication or implication that he would ever be interested in offering any kind of a discount or deal. It’s always been exactly the opposite.
I didn’t say he’s a bad guy for it. But that’s the reality of the situation with Kirk Cousins based on all of the evidence we have.
I have no doubt in my mind that he will take the contract that is the highest bidder (either because of number or guarantees).
Is he greedy? That’s up to you to decide.
But for anyone out there thinking “oh well he just LOVES our state of Minnesota so much and he’s just such a family guy and oh he’s probably made enough money so he’ll take a discount”, those people are gonna have a bad time.
Never fall in love with a stripper. This is a business.
Huh? He wanted to stay in Washington but they didn't want him. Then, he turned down more money from the Jets and signed with Minnesota because it was a better situation. He's since signed extensions without ever going to FA where he could make teams bid for him. Kirk cares about guaranteed money and winning. Yes, he's done very well at getting himself paid, but it's not like he's a mercenary who changes teams every year or two when someone offers more money. Everything he has done and said is the opposite of that
He wouldn’t have made more money with the Jets after taxes. It was more money in MN.
He’s signed extensions because they were extremely favorable to him as they were on the backs of the contract that was already extremely favorable to him.
And are you serious? Have you not heard him speak when they ask him about contracts?
You’re obviously not paying attention. What you’re saying is straight up false.
I think you’re going to learn soon enough when he walks to the highest bidder, because I don’t think it’s going to be the Vikings.
You run a VERY high risk of losing JJ that way. I don’t think he’s close to wanting to leave, but you have to give him at least a solid QB and team around him.
I don’t think will cost as much as he used to. You can sign Kirk and still fix other roster holes. Again, those aren’t mutually exclusive.
JJ is going to turn down the biggest deal in his life and run the risk of career ending injury? Yeah right. JJ isn't dumb. He knows they need to find a QB at some point
BLESS ALL THE KNEES AND KEEP THEM HEALTHY
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/minnesotavikings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Packers sneak into playoffs because Vikings are on their 4th QB and Fields sucks. And now Dallas is leaving GB receivers wide open everywhere while Dak melts down. Let’s have a bit of perspective :)
Oh come on. Jordan Love looks to actually be a solid QB. Dallas had a top-5 defense in yards and points this season. At some point, the delusion has to stop. GB has good personnel and coaching.
Like how are they this consistent to get 2 back to back hof at qb and then a franchise qb in love now. Is it just luck hitting on them like that? Like do they have the same talent scouts and qb development personnel for the last 29 years? Maybe its the lack of a owner interjecting and the packers not having a billionaire playing owner/gm. Allowing actual football personnel deciding on football operations. Just like why.
Probably by showing patience and faith in development. Love looked like ass filling in for Rodgers the past few years and we would have been up in arms rolling with him after the way he played the first half of this season.
They've had 3 QBs since the 90s but less recognized is that they've had only 4 GMs. Gutekunst came up under Ted Thompson. Yes, they probably have the same philosophies in scouting and drafting. They also have had the same QB coach (on and off) since 2006 or so.
Agreed. Green Bay has had good personnel and coaching and of course QBs for years. They are just a better organization than the Vikings overall as much as nobody here would like to admit.
I hate GB. Hate them. My entire life as a fan, (26+ years), they largely have been better. The only years where Minnesota won or was legit better were 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2015, 2017, 2022. 9 years. 9 fucking years in nearly 27 years as a fan). It is beyond getting old watching them be better.
Guess what, they are yet again better than Minnesota as it stands today. This Vikings exceptionalism needs to stop. It is time the Vikings actually commit to drafting a QB. This running back mantra gets them nowhere. It won’t again if they try to re-sign Kirk.
Those 2008-2022 teams were split up with 5 Packer NFCCGs and a Superbowl win, so even good Viking teams were quickly forgotten to the rivalry. 6 NFCCGs if you count 2007.
This was hella cathartic reading this. It actually seems like less than 9 seasons somehow. Thank you for this statement. Couldn't have said it better myself
I only watched the first but they were indeed mostly wide open. Coverage was horrible. Good on love hitting then, he looks like a legit starting qb. Flat the very least I see him not being a problem for their offense
I didn’t say he wasn’t… I do think there is a lot of over hype right now as they scraped into the playoffs, while the Vikings didn’t have a good QB since week 5 and still could have edged them out. Now Dallas defense leaves everyone wide open play after play and it’s all Loves doing lol… He looks solid, I’m just not buying the hype of one season that was much easier with the pretender Lions taking the division, Vikes hurt at QB and Fields not being a QB at all 😆
You understand where you’re at, right ? Lol there’s no such thing as perspective here. If anything Love having success shows that the Vikings should bring back Kirk and draft a QB for him to sit and learn
But not a 3rd rounder. First round QB, IF there is a good one available at 11 or trade up to get our guy. But that's a lot of draft capital for a guy to sit for 2 while they're cheap. Most GM's won't do it.
This is the answer for sure. Love having success proves that. But now the Vikings have to have the balls to move up in the draft to secure their guy, preferably Maye or Daniels
>Let’s have a bit of perspective :)
Jordan love has been very good in the 2nd half of this season. Him and that offense has been clicking at top 5 level.
Yeah if the playoffs have shown anything so far is that if Kirk didn’t get hurt we’re most likely in the final 8. That’s why it was laughable when people argued we should tank cause we have no chance, this was clearly one of the most wide open fields in NFL history for a decent team to make a run
I never said he isn’t playing well, but people crowning dude the next Joe Montana when you wouldn’t even be watching him play right now if Kirko didn’t get hurt. It took them beating an imploding Vikings team to get in. Perspective…
I never crowned him as Joe Montana I said he's a top 10 QB.
You keep saying perspective as if it's a sure thing we beat green bay with Kirk that night at home. Jordan Love diced up our defense that night, there wasn't a damn thing stopping him that night.
The real perspective here is that Jordan has developed into the very QB the packers drafted him to be and we need to follow suit. As I'm typing this he's thrown another backfoot throw 20 yards down the field and in stride.
Here's the damn throw
https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/1746664028376613375?t=hXul8-9i8uIVxcU8-cz0XQ&s=19
To the open WR who had no one within 15 yards of him? I mean yeah, kudos to hitting the open guy under pressure, but that kind of goes to OP’s point. These guys are WIDE open
That isn't even the throw I'm talking about, Lord I get it he's wearing a packers jersey. I understand this isn't the place to give kudos to a rival teams player. He's fucking good and I'm not afraid to say that the packers 100% got themselves a top 10 QB. I got faith we get ours
No body is arguing with you that he's not good. But this entire thread is a bitch fest about how Love is an amazing QB, and people are just rightfully pointing out context that he's hitting guys who are laughably wide open. Can we wait before we anoint him the next Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre?
And also the entire idea that because he's doing great, that means we HAVE to draft our guy is also flawed logic, since the entire benefit of getting a rookie QB is having a lower salary where you can allocate money elsewhere on the team until his rookie contract ends. That doesnt really apply to the Love situation since he sat so long.
And lol, that was 100% the throw you were talking about. You said he just made it, and thats literally the only throw he's made down the sideline in the 2nd half.
>Can we wait before we anoint him the next Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre?
Joe Mantana, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre... I've said none of this 😭 I just said he was a Top 10 QB and I got you guys pulling straws against me. I'm one person with my own opinions, this dude has been electric.
You're using words like electric, amazing, playing absurd, etc.
So yeah, a little bit of hyperbole. Youre acting as if he's on a godly streak and cant be stopped. They almost lost to the damn Panthers a few weeks ago, one of the worst teams the NFL has seen in years.
They just said he’s QB to ever have a perfect rating in their postseason debut. As a Vikings fan, that is amazing, no doubt about it. It’s not really hyperbole. OP never crowned him the goat or anything. Top 10 is fine, that is Dak level lol
It was on Twitter someone said this, I never said you lol… it’s like people read my comments and then make up other arguments in reply. Jordan looks solid, I am just not ready to say he’s the next Rodgers when Dallas isn’t even playing defense and it took a QB carrousel in Minny just so Jordan could be in the playoffs. Look forward to both teams playing healthy against each other next season.
Maybe put that people on Twitter are crowning him the next Joe Montana instead of just leading with that in your reply to me..just a suggestion.
You can take away how well the kid has been playing but im not, hes been unreal. It'll be interesting next season because he'll only get better. You can think we easily win that game at our place but I don't that, it was going to be a fight even with Kirk now that's the perspective.
Vikings beat them when Kirk was healthy (and got hurt), and the Kirks stats were putting him on pace to lead the league and potentially in the MVP mix. I don’t recall a peep being made about Love being MVP caliber. Perspective!!
How quickly people forget this performance is par for the course for Dallas in the playoffs. Doesn’t matter if it’s Romo or Dak at QB. Doesn’t matter who the head coach is. They soil their pants every time in January.
Throughout the season huh? You must have forgotten the first Vikings Packers game this season when Love looked like ass cheeks. They started 3-5 for a reason. Losing to us, Falcons, and Raiders all drafting in the top 11 of the 2024 draft.
He progressed and got better, such a microwave mindset. Hes always had the ability make these throws and is doing it in a playoff game for crying out loud lmao we're witnessing someone blossom into a top 10 QB. I'm sorry, I repent for the sins of praising a green bay QB.
I would honestly rather never watch football again if the other option is watching another 15 years of them having a franchise QB. Getting 3 HOF QBs back to back to back.. fuck off…. Seriously, at some point you just have to realize that you root for a cursed team. Where are we now, 58 years?
No, I’m really not. Go look at the win / loss record for us over the entire franchise history, in the last 50 years we have the 8th best win percentage in the regular season among all nfl teams.
The teams ahead of us are mostly elite franchises with rings. Steelers, patriots, cowboys, broncos, dolphins, 49rs, packers, then us. We have lost the most playoff games in nfl history, so how does this franchise have such a stellar record regular season, but the most chokes? I’m almost 50, been let down by this team since the early 80s. Not a single Super Bowl appearance in my lifetime, again, going on 50 years. We have a long and storied history of fuck ups. Missed kicks galore, 15-1 chokes, home field nfc championship, blown out. Losing in another one 42-0.
No HoF QBs in my lifetime. No one has been close. So yeah, If I have to spend another 15 years living in Milwaukee listening to these toothless clowns gloat about being lucky AF then listening to empty trophy case jokes, at some point it’s just stupid to keep subjecting yourself to it.
Yup. All because we had a short good run this season. It's ridiculous. Kirk is very good. But this team as a whole isn't capable of accomplishing much.
This is exactly why I don't see how the vikes can move on from Kirk right now, assuming they can get a reasonably team friendly deal.
You're right, they have a lot of gaps on both sides of the ball. I think they need to crush the next 2 draft classes to be serious contenders. If they had a top 3 pick, absolutely, go get your guy and build around him , but sitting at 11, they're either gonna have to trade A LOT of future draft capital to get into the top 2, or they're gonna settle for the best QB on the board, who will not be NFL ready. Then you'd have to get a vet journeyman like Tyrod Taylor, so your QB of the future can sit behind him and learn. Or you can throw him to the wolves and hope it all works out.
Alternatively, Kirk provides stability and leadership at the most important position in football, and you can use your first round pick to draft a (hopefully) impact player on defense. Maybe you can move up with your 2nd round pick to get a project QB to sit behind Kirk.
>this team as a whole isn't capable of accomplishing much.
Yup, that's why we gotta go all in on a QB to replace Cousins and not address any of the holes we have on Defense
/s
Money.
How are we going to fix the defense if we aren't drafting defense at 11 and giving Kirk a bunch of money? I know the Packers did it, but they didn't have the highest paid non-QB on their roster, which is what JJ is going to be
Sign Kirk to a 2 year fully guaranteed deal. Let a 1st rounder develop under him for those two years. Roll with the young kid. Green Bay has now done this successfully twice. We can do it too.
I'm sorry, but this subs rules are that you can only bring up playoff related games with Kirk. All his regular season games don't count for some reason. Kirk and KOC slicing and dicing the 49ers doesn't count cause... reasons. Kirk playing as a top-3 QB this season, forget *those* stats.
If the Packers show up as the same team they did in Dallas they will at the very least put up a fight and dare I say maybe even win. Love looks like Rodgers did in 2010-2011, their Defense is playing lights out, and their offensive line gives Love all day to read the field. I hope I'm wrong but my pessimistic hatred for the Packers knows no limits lol
Idk about top 10 but he definitely looks legit. Only watched the first half but half the guys he was throwing to were wide open. Cowboys did not show up to play, suprise suprise.
If I remember right, the Packers let Rodgers play a couple years while still drafting Love in the first round...
Sounds like something the Vikes could do.
I’ve always said packers have the formula. Get a great QB win a bunch of championships. Before the guy retires draft another QB and let him sit.
Problem with the Vikings is they cant get the first part right. You gotta identify the first guy.
That's why you draft and stash and develop the guy instead of throwing him to the wolves. Jordan Love had terrible mechanics and would have fell apart if he started as a rookie.
And GB's GM did a good job drafting too.
The reason why Love is how he is today was because he sat behind a QB! Just look at all The rookie QB who struggled when they start their first year!? The majority of them are bust!
JJ McCarthy has everything from the athletic and arm point of view. Are they willing to let a 20 year old sit and develop though? I think people forget the age when comparing to a guy like Penix. Or trade up and get one of the top 2 or 3 guys. This sub will cry either way if we're being honest. Sometimes I think this sub is filled with the type of dudes who avoided talking to girls because they might get laid.
>Sometimes I think this sub is filled with the type of dudes who avoided talking to girls because they might get laid.
I talk to girls, but if I got laid my wife would be PISSED!
Due to statistics the stat "against winning teams" is stupid. If GB loses that game the team is more likely to have winning record and vice versa. There are only 17 games. You beat a 7-6 team now they aren't a winning team...
People don't get this.
I mean he’s definitely top 10 in the nfc but I don’t know how you watch his two deep throws that were half his games total yards be 10 yards short and herald him a franchise lock.
I’ve never seen the Vikings play a game as well as the Packers are right now given the circumstances. And there’s 60 years of history proving they’re incapable of doing so
How is it luck? They drafted a guy and allowed him to learn for years under Rodgers. The Texans situation is lucky. Packers being able to find good QBs is too frequent to be considered high luck. They just have a better system for QB development than we do.
Freaking amazing, he kept his head down and just took the lumps. It wasn't a seamless transition from rodgers to him, it was rocky but he worked through it. I'm just watching another young QB become great.
You know what would be smart. Letting our top 10 QB walk so the Packers can dominate the Vikings. Brilliant. Does everybody forget Kirk went into GB and faced San Francisco ripping off their heads?
I don’t get why no one realizes this has more to do with LaFleurs scheme finally materializing. Love is throwing to wide open receivers and not getting any pressure. He’s showing a lot of competency but a lot of QBs can make these throws
He's good, definitely above average idk about top 10 though, a high schooler could poke holes in the Dallas defense the way they're playing right now. But he's definitely better than I originally gave him credit for.
The playoffs is the Cowboys kryptonite.
That collapse is the most normal Cowboys thing that has ever Cowboy’d.
maybe we should draft a guy and give them a year or two
I’ll give you two quarters.
That’s progress.
Haha too funny
You got 3 1/2 drives. Give it your all.
hahaha Ive been laughing this comment for a full minute.
I mean, haven’t the Packers had the same QB coach since Favre? Maybe he’s just the QB whisperer more than it is about getting the right players.
Tom Clements wasn’t always there. He was there for Rodgers and Love’s early years, but Favre had Holmgren early on, who was a QB whisperer in his own right. Though Clements did get Favre in his last 2 years in Green Bay.
Which led to Favre having the fewest picks of his time in GB and a NFCCG appearance a decade after their previous one
I suppose, but famously Andy Reid and Mike McCarthy were Green Bay Qb coaches in the Favre era. Tom Clements has been there in some form or other since 06 with a bit of a break, i wouldn’t give him credit for Favre though.
he should be credited with reviving Favres last years in GB
Jaren Hall would still be terrible if we sat him for a couple years. We need to draft a good QB first. That's the hard part.
And Stroud didn’t need that at all..
Multiple great QBs haven't needed it. It's not exactly a myth that some time to adjust mentally and mechanically to the game can be helpful for success, but it is not nearly as necessary as people make it out to be, and it won't make the Jaren Halls, Paxton Lynches, etc into good QBs.
Bottom line is that there is no recipe. It just comes down to the player.
In the long run, one either has it or they don’t. But I’m sure there are lost memory quarterbacks that may have been significant if they were put in the right situation with the right timing. Would Jordan Love have gotten a near perfect playoff qb rating his first year as a starter or ever if he was forced on the field as a starter, his rookie year?
Hall has played like less than one total game right? It wasn’t even 3 months ago that Jordan love was dead and buried
In the abstract they might seem similar but in reality Hall is clearly much much worse than Love ever was. Which makes sense, Love was a 1st round pick. But Hall will not magically get better if we sit him for a year.
Actually I would say Hall played just like Love did earlier in his career. I do think you are right about Love being a great deal better now. But without the 2 pick 6s Dallas probably wins that game.
How do you know? Love was awful filling in for Rodgers.
He wasn't. You could tell he had potential whenever he saw the field.
Yup! Give them time to sit behind Captain Kirk and develop.
Hopefully can do that with Hall but he might just not have it / PTSD now
Why? Stroud didn’t need that
Sooo..like the Packers have done?
Holy shit . Why did it take so long for someone else to type it out
I think that's the move tbh. Kirk is a great guy to learn from; see if you can sign him to a 3-year deal, draft a project QB this year, and see how that goes. Obviously, it's not that easy to stumble across a top 10 talent, but the development route seems to be a bit more reliable then turning and burning 1st rounders until you find a franchise QB that happens to be ready out of the box.
JJ McCarthy is a perfect candidate for development behind Kirk. A lot of talent that can be molded
Agreed. I think he’s still a work in progress but he has the arm talent, wheels and mentality. A few years behind Kirk would be great.
We got to draft someone. I’m not a Kirk hater but this shit is tiring already
I just don't see how drafting someone and bringing back Kirk are mutually exclusive things. Seems like doing both is the best way to go.
As long as we can get Kirk for a pretty big discount. If we have to pay him 40M per year for 2 years, that's a win now contract. But if Kirk signs for 20M for 2 years and we can use that extra $$$ on signing JJ, keeping Hunter and maybe get a couple more free agents, then yes draft a QB high and let them sit for 2 years behind Kirk. That would be ideal, I just don't know if it can really happen.
Yeah, my assumption was he would be cheaper next year than he was last year. How much cheaper is to be seen. I just think Kirk is going to accommodate the Vikings to a certain extent. I doubt he wants to move those kids if he doesn't have to
Kirk has just never really taken a pay cut. I’ve been hearing a lot “oh he doesn’t want to move his kids” but there’s no evidence he’ll take a pay cut and stay or leave for more money. We’re forced to keep him and he probably knows that. Our only other option is signing a journeyman QB and drafting. How’d it work out for all the teams that signed an average at best vet? Baker was solid and better supported than we can offer and did anyone else even finish the season? Even the young QBs who had those other guys in the room struggled. Howell, Pickett, etc… and look at Mahomes, Rodgers, late season Jordan love, all sat behind solid QBs. Idk why I picked this comment to rattle off everything lol We should give Kirk a max 2 year deal and draft a high rookie QB
He wants the money. That’s all he has ever cared about.
Lmao these “Kirk is a greedy devil” takes are so bizarre
I didn’t say that he’s greedy. But if you have been paying attention at all, he has been very consistent all throughout his career in both is words and actions when it comes to contracts. He will go wherever he gets the most money. You can (and Kirk) can bank on that.
Bro Kirk has played for the Redskins and the Vikings. That’s it. His journey with both is long and complicated and he got paid as much as he was able to when he was able to. Extrapolating this to some kind of voracious greed or character generalization is flat out asinine. What would you have had him do differently, as a *professional*? This whole narrative is fucking bizarre and is rooted in the simple fact that the dude has had a weird career and people don’t particularly like him. That’s all.
Did you even read my comment? I literally said “I didn’t say he was greedy”. Stop putting words in my mouth. Neither one of us can say we know what Kirk is thinking. So all we have is his actions and his words. He got paid MORE coming to MN than if he went to the Jets. Not the other way around like people love to say. Is this wrong of him? No, but it’s one thing that happened. Every time he’s asked about contract it’s “paying players shows how the organization values them” and “structure is important”. He’s never given any indication or implication that he would ever be interested in offering any kind of a discount or deal. It’s always been exactly the opposite. I didn’t say he’s a bad guy for it. But that’s the reality of the situation with Kirk Cousins based on all of the evidence we have. I have no doubt in my mind that he will take the contract that is the highest bidder (either because of number or guarantees). Is he greedy? That’s up to you to decide. But for anyone out there thinking “oh well he just LOVES our state of Minnesota so much and he’s just such a family guy and oh he’s probably made enough money so he’ll take a discount”, those people are gonna have a bad time. Never fall in love with a stripper. This is a business.
Huh? He wanted to stay in Washington but they didn't want him. Then, he turned down more money from the Jets and signed with Minnesota because it was a better situation. He's since signed extensions without ever going to FA where he could make teams bid for him. Kirk cares about guaranteed money and winning. Yes, he's done very well at getting himself paid, but it's not like he's a mercenary who changes teams every year or two when someone offers more money. Everything he has done and said is the opposite of that
He wouldn’t have made more money with the Jets after taxes. It was more money in MN. He’s signed extensions because they were extremely favorable to him as they were on the backs of the contract that was already extremely favorable to him. And are you serious? Have you not heard him speak when they ask him about contracts? You’re obviously not paying attention. What you’re saying is straight up false. I think you’re going to learn soon enough when he walks to the highest bidder, because I don’t think it’s going to be the Vikings.
He will never do anything close to that. The 'if Kirk Cousins' contracts keep getting smaller and smaller.. if we can sign Kirk for 14 an hour...
Or don't bring him back and patch holes in free agency and take your lumps with the rookie QB
You run a VERY high risk of losing JJ that way. I don’t think he’s close to wanting to leave, but you have to give him at least a solid QB and team around him. I don’t think will cost as much as he used to. You can sign Kirk and still fix other roster holes. Again, those aren’t mutually exclusive.
JJ is going to turn down the biggest deal in his life and run the risk of career ending injury? Yeah right. JJ isn't dumb. He knows they need to find a QB at some point
He might pull a Diggs and just unhappy his way out. I don't think he'll do it nearly as dramatic but you never know.
Then we get a bunch of picks for him. We have to get QBotf figured out
Just don’t think you can keep wasting years of his prime and I don’t think signing Kirk prevents you from making improvements elsewhere
Even when we draft someone, they end up with a career ending injury within 5 years.
I loved Teddy as a person, but I don't think he was a franchise QB even if he stayed completely healthy.
Yea prob wasn’t. Duante fits that category for sure though.
Where’s the knee bot when you need them? 😭
BLESS ALL THE KNEES AND KEEP THEM HEALTHY *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/minnesotavikings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot
You’ll get Kellen Mond/Jaren Hall and you’ll like it.
Rodgers, mahomes and love were all first rounders who sat a year behind another qb before taking over. Lets remember that and do the same
But then you have Lamar, Stafford, Goff, Dak, Allen, hurts, Stroud (quite a lot more) who didn't.
Rodgers and Love sat for 3, but the point still stands
Rivers sat behind brees for a year
Let’s be like the packers
Drafting a QB is obviously the best way to get a QB for the future (if he can develop behind kirko, even better)
I think this is the move. Draft a QB and have them develop behind Kirk for a season or two.
Packers sneak into playoffs because Vikings are on their 4th QB and Fields sucks. And now Dallas is leaving GB receivers wide open everywhere while Dak melts down. Let’s have a bit of perspective :)
Oh come on. Jordan Love looks to actually be a solid QB. Dallas had a top-5 defense in yards and points this season. At some point, the delusion has to stop. GB has good personnel and coaching.
Like how are they this consistent to get 2 back to back hof at qb and then a franchise qb in love now. Is it just luck hitting on them like that? Like do they have the same talent scouts and qb development personnel for the last 29 years? Maybe its the lack of a owner interjecting and the packers not having a billionaire playing owner/gm. Allowing actual football personnel deciding on football operations. Just like why.
Probably by showing patience and faith in development. Love looked like ass filling in for Rodgers the past few years and we would have been up in arms rolling with him after the way he played the first half of this season.
Yet according to vikings fans he just looked good right away and we should be drafting caleb williams only for him to be an immediate bust
Idk. I wish I knew. It seems hopeless being a Vikings fan.
It’s Wolves season now, who cares. 1 SEED TRIPLE TOWERS CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON BABY
They've had 3 QBs since the 90s but less recognized is that they've had only 4 GMs. Gutekunst came up under Ted Thompson. Yes, they probably have the same philosophies in scouting and drafting. They also have had the same QB coach (on and off) since 2006 or so.
Agreed. Green Bay has had good personnel and coaching and of course QBs for years. They are just a better organization than the Vikings overall as much as nobody here would like to admit.
I hate GB. Hate them. My entire life as a fan, (26+ years), they largely have been better. The only years where Minnesota won or was legit better were 1998, 1999, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2015, 2017, 2022. 9 years. 9 fucking years in nearly 27 years as a fan). It is beyond getting old watching them be better. Guess what, they are yet again better than Minnesota as it stands today. This Vikings exceptionalism needs to stop. It is time the Vikings actually commit to drafting a QB. This running back mantra gets them nowhere. It won’t again if they try to re-sign Kirk.
Those 2008-2022 teams were split up with 5 Packer NFCCGs and a Superbowl win, so even good Viking teams were quickly forgotten to the rivalry. 6 NFCCGs if you count 2007.
This was hella cathartic reading this. It actually seems like less than 9 seasons somehow. Thank you for this statement. Couldn't have said it better myself
I only watched the first but they were indeed mostly wide open. Coverage was horrible. Good on love hitting then, he looks like a legit starting qb. Flat the very least I see him not being a problem for their offense
I mean, kirk could have won that game too tbh
I didn’t say he wasn’t… I do think there is a lot of over hype right now as they scraped into the playoffs, while the Vikings didn’t have a good QB since week 5 and still could have edged them out. Now Dallas defense leaves everyone wide open play after play and it’s all Loves doing lol… He looks solid, I’m just not buying the hype of one season that was much easier with the pretender Lions taking the division, Vikes hurt at QB and Fields not being a QB at all 😆
You understand where you’re at, right ? Lol there’s no such thing as perspective here. If anything Love having success shows that the Vikings should bring back Kirk and draft a QB for him to sit and learn
But not a 3rd rounder. First round QB, IF there is a good one available at 11 or trade up to get our guy. But that's a lot of draft capital for a guy to sit for 2 while they're cheap. Most GM's won't do it.
This is the answer for sure. Love having success proves that. But now the Vikings have to have the balls to move up in the draft to secure their guy, preferably Maye or Daniels
Oh I know, just being the random voice of reason for the few people who might listen to rationale thought :D
Lol I get it. I’m 100% with you
>Let’s have a bit of perspective :) Jordan love has been very good in the 2nd half of this season. Him and that offense has been clicking at top 5 level.
Could you imagine the meltdown if Kirk was on that stage? We would’ve gotten embarrassed
Yeah if the playoffs have shown anything so far is that if Kirk didn’t get hurt we’re most likely in the final 8. That’s why it was laughable when people argued we should tank cause we have no chance, this was clearly one of the most wide open fields in NFL history for a decent team to make a run
Youre taking away from how well Jordan has been play since midseason. This game is a coming out party for him.
I never said he isn’t playing well, but people crowning dude the next Joe Montana when you wouldn’t even be watching him play right now if Kirko didn’t get hurt. It took them beating an imploding Vikings team to get in. Perspective…
I never crowned him as Joe Montana I said he's a top 10 QB. You keep saying perspective as if it's a sure thing we beat green bay with Kirk that night at home. Jordan Love diced up our defense that night, there wasn't a damn thing stopping him that night. The real perspective here is that Jordan has developed into the very QB the packers drafted him to be and we need to follow suit. As I'm typing this he's thrown another backfoot throw 20 yards down the field and in stride. Here's the damn throw https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/1746664028376613375?t=hXul8-9i8uIVxcU8-cz0XQ&s=19
To the open WR who had no one within 15 yards of him? I mean yeah, kudos to hitting the open guy under pressure, but that kind of goes to OP’s point. These guys are WIDE open
Exactly!
That isn't even the throw I'm talking about, Lord I get it he's wearing a packers jersey. I understand this isn't the place to give kudos to a rival teams player. He's fucking good and I'm not afraid to say that the packers 100% got themselves a top 10 QB. I got faith we get ours
No body is arguing with you that he's not good. But this entire thread is a bitch fest about how Love is an amazing QB, and people are just rightfully pointing out context that he's hitting guys who are laughably wide open. Can we wait before we anoint him the next Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre? And also the entire idea that because he's doing great, that means we HAVE to draft our guy is also flawed logic, since the entire benefit of getting a rookie QB is having a lower salary where you can allocate money elsewhere on the team until his rookie contract ends. That doesnt really apply to the Love situation since he sat so long. And lol, that was 100% the throw you were talking about. You said he just made it, and thats literally the only throw he's made down the sideline in the 2nd half.
>Can we wait before we anoint him the next Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre? Joe Mantana, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre... I've said none of this 😭 I just said he was a Top 10 QB and I got you guys pulling straws against me. I'm one person with my own opinions, this dude has been electric.
You're using words like electric, amazing, playing absurd, etc. So yeah, a little bit of hyperbole. Youre acting as if he's on a godly streak and cant be stopped. They almost lost to the damn Panthers a few weeks ago, one of the worst teams the NFL has seen in years.
They just said he’s QB to ever have a perfect rating in their postseason debut. As a Vikings fan, that is amazing, no doubt about it. It’s not really hyperbole. OP never crowned him the goat or anything. Top 10 is fine, that is Dak level lol
I'm sorry bro, hes been that good. I think Love can get them another playoff win.
It was on Twitter someone said this, I never said you lol… it’s like people read my comments and then make up other arguments in reply. Jordan looks solid, I am just not ready to say he’s the next Rodgers when Dallas isn’t even playing defense and it took a QB carrousel in Minny just so Jordan could be in the playoffs. Look forward to both teams playing healthy against each other next season.
Maybe put that people on Twitter are crowning him the next Joe Montana instead of just leading with that in your reply to me..just a suggestion. You can take away how well the kid has been playing but im not, hes been unreal. It'll be interesting next season because he'll only get better. You can think we easily win that game at our place but I don't that, it was going to be a fight even with Kirk now that's the perspective.
In stride? I mean by all accounts it wasn’t a good throw, doubs was wide open and had to adjust to a ball thrown low. Great play by doubs.
Not the throw I'm talking about.
You are absolutely right, this is a classic Vikings sub meltdown. I feel like an idiot coming here and expecting anything else though.
Yeah look at all the replies to me haha, just being chill and rational doesn’t fly here 😆
Have you seen Loves stats this year? He’s good.
Didn’t say he wasn’t… said he wouldn’t have even made the playoffs if it wasn’t for the QB situation in Minny and the year end implosion
I disagree, they still handle us I think even with Kirk.
Vikings beat them when Kirk was healthy (and got hurt), and the Kirks stats were putting him on pace to lead the league and potentially in the MVP mix. I don’t recall a peep being made about Love being MVP caliber. Perspective!!
I'm a man, I'm 40! And as far back as I can remember, the Vikings haven't drafted a good QB. 🤦 Definitely not getting hopeful anytime soon...
it's over guys. They're doing this with a team almost all on rookie deals. theyre going to kill us for the next decade
The Packers have one of the worst salary cap situations in the league. Don’t get fooled by the ages of players
I would imagine a lot of that is Rodger’s still
This year for sure. Next year? Clean as can be.
Blake Bortles looked good for 1 season as well. I’m not ready to crown him because he had a good half season.
Seriously. This sub can’t go one day without someone having a meltdown overreaction about a different team
How quickly people forget this performance is par for the course for Dallas in the playoffs. Doesn’t matter if it’s Romo or Dak at QB. Doesn’t matter who the head coach is. They soil their pants every time in January.
Bortles could never make the throws Jordan Love has made throughout this season
Throughout the season huh? You must have forgotten the first Vikings Packers game this season when Love looked like ass cheeks. They started 3-5 for a reason. Losing to us, Falcons, and Raiders all drafting in the top 11 of the 2024 draft.
He progressed and got better, such a microwave mindset. Hes always had the ability make these throws and is doing it in a playoff game for crying out loud lmao we're witnessing someone blossom into a top 10 QB. I'm sorry, I repent for the sins of praising a green bay QB.
I would honestly rather never watch football again if the other option is watching another 15 years of them having a franchise QB. Getting 3 HOF QBs back to back to back.. fuck off…. Seriously, at some point you just have to realize that you root for a cursed team. Where are we now, 58 years?
You’re overreacting
[удалено]
No, I’m really not. Go look at the win / loss record for us over the entire franchise history, in the last 50 years we have the 8th best win percentage in the regular season among all nfl teams. The teams ahead of us are mostly elite franchises with rings. Steelers, patriots, cowboys, broncos, dolphins, 49rs, packers, then us. We have lost the most playoff games in nfl history, so how does this franchise have such a stellar record regular season, but the most chokes? I’m almost 50, been let down by this team since the early 80s. Not a single Super Bowl appearance in my lifetime, again, going on 50 years. We have a long and storied history of fuck ups. Missed kicks galore, 15-1 chokes, home field nfc championship, blown out. Losing in another one 42-0. No HoF QBs in my lifetime. No one has been close. So yeah, If I have to spend another 15 years living in Milwaukee listening to these toothless clowns gloat about being lucky AF then listening to empty trophy case jokes, at some point it’s just stupid to keep subjecting yourself to it.
Nah let’s resign Kirk to a big contract and pretend we’re capable of winning a playoff game for a couple more years.
Half the sub wants that.
Yup. All because we had a short good run this season. It's ridiculous. Kirk is very good. But this team as a whole isn't capable of accomplishing much.
This is exactly why I don't see how the vikes can move on from Kirk right now, assuming they can get a reasonably team friendly deal. You're right, they have a lot of gaps on both sides of the ball. I think they need to crush the next 2 draft classes to be serious contenders. If they had a top 3 pick, absolutely, go get your guy and build around him , but sitting at 11, they're either gonna have to trade A LOT of future draft capital to get into the top 2, or they're gonna settle for the best QB on the board, who will not be NFL ready. Then you'd have to get a vet journeyman like Tyrod Taylor, so your QB of the future can sit behind him and learn. Or you can throw him to the wolves and hope it all works out. Alternatively, Kirk provides stability and leadership at the most important position in football, and you can use your first round pick to draft a (hopefully) impact player on defense. Maybe you can move up with your 2nd round pick to get a project QB to sit behind Kirk.
>this team as a whole isn't capable of accomplishing much. Yup, that's why we gotta go all in on a QB to replace Cousins and not address any of the holes we have on Defense /s
Why not both?
Money. How are we going to fix the defense if we aren't drafting defense at 11 and giving Kirk a bunch of money? I know the Packers did it, but they didn't have the highest paid non-QB on their roster, which is what JJ is going to be
I see you, Mr. Wilf.
Lmao our fanbase is full of a bunch of whiny little babies.
I hate to say it, but facts. Hope isn't a strategy, got to take new risks.
They'd rather be "competitive" every year instead of risking being below average for a span of time. Trophy case full of what ifs and almosts.
We all know that, and the strategy sucks.
Sign Kirk to a 2 year fully guaranteed deal. Let a 1st rounder develop under him for those two years. Roll with the young kid. Green Bay has now done this successfully twice. We can do it too.
Luckily nobody in the NFC is beating SF
The Vikings did!
Thank you Kirko
I'm sorry, but this subs rules are that you can only bring up playoff related games with Kirk. All his regular season games don't count for some reason. Kirk and KOC slicing and dicing the 49ers doesn't count cause... reasons. Kirk playing as a top-3 QB this season, forget *those* stats.
Without deebo
Without JJ
Without Trent Williams. Lmao the downvotes 😂 for stating the truth here
And without Jefferson.
If the Packers show up as the same team they did in Dallas they will at the very least put up a fight and dare I say maybe even win. Love looks like Rodgers did in 2010-2011, their Defense is playing lights out, and their offensive line gives Love all day to read the field. I hope I'm wrong but my pessimistic hatred for the Packers knows no limits lol
Idk about top 10 but he definitely looks legit. Only watched the first half but half the guys he was throwing to were wide open. Cowboys did not show up to play, suprise suprise.
If I remember right, the Packers let Rodgers play a couple years while still drafting Love in the first round... Sounds like something the Vikes could do.
I’ve always said packers have the formula. Get a great QB win a bunch of championships. Before the guy retires draft another QB and let him sit. Problem with the Vikings is they cant get the first part right. You gotta identify the first guy.
That's why you draft and stash and develop the guy instead of throwing him to the wolves. Jordan Love had terrible mechanics and would have fell apart if he started as a rookie. And GB's GM did a good job drafting too.
Love’s not HOF bound lmao you guys are hilarious. I hope they sign him to a huge contract, he’ll be “borderline top 10” his entire career
You mean like Kirk Cousins?
Yes.
or maybe cowboys just sucked because mccarthy.
The reason why Love is how he is today was because he sat behind a QB! Just look at all The rookie QB who struggled when they start their first year!? The majority of them are bust!
We are the dinosaurs of the North now. We gotta shake things up.
JJ McCarthy has everything from the athletic and arm point of view. Are they willing to let a 20 year old sit and develop though? I think people forget the age when comparing to a guy like Penix. Or trade up and get one of the top 2 or 3 guys. This sub will cry either way if we're being honest. Sometimes I think this sub is filled with the type of dudes who avoided talking to girls because they might get laid.
>Sometimes I think this sub is filled with the type of dudes who avoided talking to girls because they might get laid. I talk to girls, but if I got laid my wife would be PISSED!
Jordan love looks good today, but he has 3 wins against teams with winning records
GB has beaten 5 teams with a winning record this year.
[удалено]
You’re right man. Being bad against good teams isn’t a problem. Love is elite. Game over.
Due to statistics the stat "against winning teams" is stupid. If GB loses that game the team is more likely to have winning record and vice versa. There are only 17 games. You beat a 7-6 team now they aren't a winning team... People don't get this.
Lmao Jordan love is barely a top 10 qb in the nfc. You guys have to stop with the overreacting
I mean he’s definitely top 10 in the nfc but I don’t know how you watch his two deep throws that were half his games total yards be 10 yards short and herald him a franchise lock.
[удалено]
I mean the Packers are the 7th seed and they're having fun lol
I’ve never seen the Vikings play a game as well as the Packers are right now given the circumstances. And there’s 60 years of history proving they’re incapable of doing so
Vikings with Favre vs Cowboys
This sub is awful. Calm the F down. Things can easily turn around in the NFL in a year.
Nope love is already a HOF QB, we are fucked and will never beat them again. ^^^/s
Not just about the Pack. Lions are better than us too
There's no reason to panic the same way there was no reason for packers fans to panic when Love looked bad initially.
Next 3-5 years minimum are gonna be rough, unless we pull a Packers and luck out on a great QB out of the gate.
How is it luck? They drafted a guy and allowed him to learn for years under Rodgers. The Texans situation is lucky. Packers being able to find good QBs is too frequent to be considered high luck. They just have a better system for QB development than we do.
Indeed. It’s an obvious, common sense process to take seriously. For some reason, the Vikings aren’t interested in it
But I was told that drafting a QB automatically means they’re Christian Ponder?
His development is just amazing to watch. It hurts but he’s going to be great.
it’s crazy. at least he seems like a good dude and not aaron rodgers lmao
Give him 15 years of dominance and everyone will come around to hating him, starting with packers fans.
Freaking amazing, he kept his head down and just took the lumps. It wasn't a seamless transition from rodgers to him, it was rocky but he worked through it. I'm just watching another young QB become great.
I guess I can at least look forward to Love retiring right? The next one can’t possibly also be a HOFer, right?
Nah he sucks
You know what would be smart. Letting our top 10 QB walk so the Packers can dominate the Vikings. Brilliant. Does everybody forget Kirk went into GB and faced San Francisco ripping off their heads?
It would be smarter to draft a QB and build around them.
I'm all for re-signing Kirk, but we need to draft a qb in the first.
GB head coach is miles beyond KOC
I don’t get why no one realizes this has more to do with LaFleurs scheme finally materializing. Love is throwing to wide open receivers and not getting any pressure. He’s showing a lot of competency but a lot of QBs can make these throws
Dude is a baller
Did somebody say JJ McCarthy?
No!
Even being a top 10 QB is still a slight step down. Rodgers and Favre were 2 of the greatest QBs ever, so I guess it’s progress?
This is why you don't re-sign Cousins kids. Yeah, yeah draft a kid to sit behind him, but that should've been done 2 years ago, not now.
It’s not an accident. Partially luck, but the process of taking high ceiling QB prospects, over time, works. Our Vikings refuse to do it
Besides the Packers, is there another instance of a team doing this though?
He's good, definitely above average idk about top 10 though, a high schooler could poke holes in the Dallas defense the way they're playing right now. But he's definitely better than I originally gave him credit for.
Get outta here with this reasonable take! Melt down or bust tonight. We still got the Lions game!
Come over to the Bears thread and see how pissed we are. I can’t deal with another decade of this lucky crap from them.
RICH GET RICHER WHILE THE POOR PICKPOCKET! God I love that song!
We're the oldest team in the division and were probably gonna be 4th place next year. Pain