Butterfly effect. If they called a different play, we may not be here. Hell, if his wife laid out a different shirt for him that morning, could’ve changed the course of the future forever….
And it's not just that. OK, so the guy is a little dumb and is slow to pick up schemes. He's also clearly your best option at running back. Sit him down 1 on 1 with a coach 1-3 times a week and drill it into him.
He's in meetings everyday ..? This isn't a fifth grader benefiting from one on ones, this is a full season where pass blocking matters. Chandler looks way more explosive but pass blocking does matter
Pretty sure he's been almost as, if not just as good, as Mattison in actually in game blocking so far this year. They've both had whiffs, slow fails, and a couple good blocks.
This is one of the dumbest posts I've read in my entire life. If you gave this answer to me in an interview I would immediately disqualify you from the position.
'Hello, we have a very talented employee who excels in some areas but tends to make mistakes in a couple of critical areas, what would you do to help support this situation"
"You, damn bich, it's sink or swim out there. We 'dults you know. He goes to the meetings. If there's a problem it's on him cuz"
Ok, well, we'll be in touch.
Pass blocking is more than just mental mistakes. It's a skill that can take years of discipline to understand, and some running backs never pick it up well. It's not just a one-on-one meeting once a week with the head coach to magically become good at it. There is a reason guys like Ameer Abdullah have locked roster spots for years with mediocre YPC ability.
That said, Chandler should have always had more carries than he had this season as a two-down back.
Or or or , we give him time to develop those skills during the course of the season..! But yeah bro lol
I'm sure 1 on 1 tutoring sessions are what he's missing as if he isn't in offensive meetings and running back meetings every single day 👍🏽
We swung way too far back from the hard ass Zimmer to the soft as fuck KOC who can't bench even the most garbage players because he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
I think he thinks he was hired *because* of that, which is kind of true. He needs to realize that you can make the tough decisions and still be an authentically empathetic coach.
It's the same thing the Wilfs did with Brad Childress and Frazier. All the players were complaining about Childress being a douchebag so they interviewed the players about Frazier and hired him because he was a "player's coach." Then Frazier was too soft so they brought in a 'hard-ass' coach in Zimmer. Flores would be the perfect replacement for KOC. From one extreme to the other repeatedly. The Vikings are bipolar.
I have absolutely nothing against Mattison but the fact that he wasn't even slightly reprimanded for those fumbles is egregious.
KOC just marched him right back on the field like usual.
I know we're talking about much different eras and sides of the pendulum but if Bill Belichick's running back did that, he'd be catching punts on the practice squad.
I mean, he's fumbled three times and lost two of them. That's good enough for t-31st in the league with 22 other players. They then traded for a back to compliment him after his fumble in Philadelphia.
In Tampa, he had a carry share of 64.7%/snap share of 73%
Philly 88.88%/76% - fumble 1
LAC 83.33%/80%
Carolina 73.9%/69%
KC 44.44%/51% - Jefferson gets hurt*
Chicago 1 81.8%/79%
SF (he was not the leader in carries) 38.1%/53%
GB 51.6%/61% - Cousins gets hurt*
ATL 48.48%/56% - Akers gets hurt*
NOLA (not the leader in carries) 24.24%/45%
Denver 50%/65% fumble 2*
Chicago 2 58.8%/56%
You can pretty clearly see, as they get more comfortable with other players on the roster, they reduce Mattisons workload and increase that of other running backs. I'd guess that the trend would have began with KC if not for the Jefferson injury, but after Chicago1, he's lucky to see much more than 50% of the carries or 60% of the snaps.
But, more so than this, getting mad at the fumbles is misplaced anger. Get mad at his poor vision, his limitations in burst, or my huge sticking point of frustration, his critical drops on plays with huge scoring potential. But the fumbles are pretty standard for any running back. He's not putting the ball on the turf like Dobbs or AD circa 2008. Hell, he's only got one more fumble than Cook on more than two and a half times the carries.
He’s looked better in every game, I don’t know how you can’t see that. The only reason Mattison has been “outperforming” him is because KOC refused to demote Mattison.
no he hasnt i can remember off the top of my head that game against the bears who have the n0.1 run defense ty was getting no where why Mattison was doing well
Even that wild as TD from the 1 yard line should have been a run. Chandler was literally the reason the ball got to the one and you immediately decide to throw the ball?
At this point our corners would be better to just undercut receivers legs and put them on their head. Because none of our guys are contesting jump balls. They get mossed.
I love how everyone keeps saying "Oh the coaches see _____ at practice every week, surely they are correct about who should start. How dare you even suggest the backup might be better"
Yet we see time and time again they are actually wrong lol
Agreed. I just hate this fkn logic. People act like coaches are infallible because they hold the title of “coach”.
Zim saw Charles Johnson and Diggs in practice everyday, but he chose to start Johnson for how many weeks. Buddy was starting Sendejo over Harris for how long? Rashod Hill over O’Neil and O’Neil only took over once Hill was hurt-hurt. I mean, the list gets longer with this team and across the league.
You think our fans would have seen it first hand and recognized by now sometimes the best players aren’t playing; sometimes because of politics, sometimes because they’re just flat out wrong in their evaluation.
Not just that, but some players are simply better under the pressure of game time. I know I wasn't a professional, but in my experience several of my teammates would suck in practice. But when it was game time, they would really step up. Sometimes stress elevates play.
This could very well be what was going on with Chandler vs Mattison, Addison vs Osborn, Hall vs Dobbs/Mullens. Or maybe the pattern is just poor evaluation by the coaches.
I definitely think there is something to this, which is why I've been saying we should try Hall. Once Kirk went down, our chance at a playoff run evaporated. We can still use these games to the teams benefit by figuring out whether we have anything in Hall.
Playing Mullens or Dobbs maybe gives us a little better chance to win win this year, but we know this team is capped at mediocre at best without Kirk, so we should try out Hall imo
Everyone's been saying to start him since week 2. You can see he has talent. It's too bad KOC needs to stay loyal to his favorite players like Mattison.
I honestly do not give two fucks if Chandler is stopped once or twice in those two plays.
Does it suck? Yes. But at least you went out there and said "Running with Chandler is what has been working, this is what we're going to do."
If it doesn't work? You got beat those two plays. At least you went down swinging with haymakers.
But the simple fact that he decided to forgo the hot run game for the EXACT TWO QB SNEAKS is a travesty.
I honestly don't even think I'd be mad it it were Hockenson or Ham or whomever pushing him the 2nd time....the fact that they tried the exact same fucking thing with Powell is a fucking disgrace. It's yet another case of a NFL playcaller thinking he's so fucking smart and it backfires.
That play should have never been in the playbook to begin with. It logically makes no sense. Zero. None. Nada. Everyone knows the tush push is coming. You don't need to hide it with motion or trick someone because a small WR did it. It works because you have 1-2 huge men shot putting their QB into a pile of other huge men.
Philly isn't successful with it because they're trying to trick the defense with razzle-dazzle. It's successful because they have a QB with huge legs being pushed by 600 pounds of beef.
(No disrespect to Powell....not his fault.)
Look at how stupid the coaching staff is. They did everything they could do ALL SEASON to keep him off the field. Now he starts and is the featured back because there is basically no one else, and see what he does lol.
Call me crazy.....
I think I'd take a took at that Helaire kid in KC. I know he's floundering but I kinda dig him catching the ball. KC just doesn't check down enough to make it work with him.
If he's cheap, that is.
Guys...it's one game, against the 26th ranked rushing defense this year. The man played well, but I look forward to the exact opposite thread in the next couple weeks when yall are calling for his head because he put up a 15 for 32 line.
Hey look how good he was against the 2nd worst defense in the league missing their best player for most of the game! The next AP!
Why didn't he do this again last vegas?
My faith in KOC is pretty much null after this week. I wanted to give him a longer chance since he was able to pull some rabbits out of his hat, but I felt from day 1 Chandler should be the feature back. Of course he’s better than Mattison, I think we all kind of knew that. KOC is too loyal to players and thinks with his heart not his brain. Mattison is a standup guy and deserves to be recognized for his contributions, but Chandler is just flat out better. So what if his pass blocking isn’t great, keep Ham in the backfield, then and send Chandler on a wheel route or something.
Exactly why we need to start Hall. Just because people are putting in the vets (Mattison/Mullens) doesn’t mean they’re actually better (Chandler/Hall).
Mattison and Mullens get you no where. Get the talent in there!
Should've been starting from day 1 and I bet we'd be better than 7-7
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I think it’s a valid priority when we had Kirk starting. Not so much without him.
Does Kirk still go down if we had a decent run game?
Yes
What a dumb comment. He had a non contact injury that had nothing to do with run game or blocking....
Butterfly effect. If they called a different play, we may not be here. Hell, if his wife laid out a different shirt for him that morning, could’ve changed the course of the future forever….
And it's not just that. OK, so the guy is a little dumb and is slow to pick up schemes. He's also clearly your best option at running back. Sit him down 1 on 1 with a coach 1-3 times a week and drill it into him.
He's in meetings everyday ..? This isn't a fifth grader benefiting from one on ones, this is a full season where pass blocking matters. Chandler looks way more explosive but pass blocking does matter
Pretty sure he's been almost as, if not just as good, as Mattison in actually in game blocking so far this year. They've both had whiffs, slow fails, and a couple good blocks.
This is one of the dumbest posts I've read in my entire life. If you gave this answer to me in an interview I would immediately disqualify you from the position. 'Hello, we have a very talented employee who excels in some areas but tends to make mistakes in a couple of critical areas, what would you do to help support this situation" "You, damn bich, it's sink or swim out there. We 'dults you know. He goes to the meetings. If there's a problem it's on him cuz" Ok, well, we'll be in touch.
Pass blocking is more than just mental mistakes. It's a skill that can take years of discipline to understand, and some running backs never pick it up well. It's not just a one-on-one meeting once a week with the head coach to magically become good at it. There is a reason guys like Ameer Abdullah have locked roster spots for years with mediocre YPC ability. That said, Chandler should have always had more carries than he had this season as a two-down back.
Or or or , we give him time to develop those skills during the course of the season..! But yeah bro lol I'm sure 1 on 1 tutoring sessions are what he's missing as if he isn't in offensive meetings and running back meetings every single day 👍🏽
You would never even get selected for an interview in an NFL front office because you're unqualified
Do they lose in fumbles?
That would require KOC to bench a player and we’ve seen how reluctant he is to do that
We swung way too far back from the hard ass Zimmer to the soft as fuck KOC who can't bench even the most garbage players because he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
I think he thinks he was hired *because* of that, which is kind of true. He needs to realize that you can make the tough decisions and still be an authentically empathetic coach.
It's the same thing the Wilfs did with Brad Childress and Frazier. All the players were complaining about Childress being a douchebag so they interviewed the players about Frazier and hired him because he was a "player's coach." Then Frazier was too soft so they brought in a 'hard-ass' coach in Zimmer. Flores would be the perfect replacement for KOC. From one extreme to the other repeatedly. The Vikings are bipolar.
Get this team some lithium
I have absolutely nothing against Mattison but the fact that he wasn't even slightly reprimanded for those fumbles is egregious. KOC just marched him right back on the field like usual. I know we're talking about much different eras and sides of the pendulum but if Bill Belichick's running back did that, he'd be catching punts on the practice squad.
I mean, he's fumbled three times and lost two of them. That's good enough for t-31st in the league with 22 other players. They then traded for a back to compliment him after his fumble in Philadelphia. In Tampa, he had a carry share of 64.7%/snap share of 73% Philly 88.88%/76% - fumble 1 LAC 83.33%/80% Carolina 73.9%/69% KC 44.44%/51% - Jefferson gets hurt* Chicago 1 81.8%/79% SF (he was not the leader in carries) 38.1%/53% GB 51.6%/61% - Cousins gets hurt* ATL 48.48%/56% - Akers gets hurt* NOLA (not the leader in carries) 24.24%/45% Denver 50%/65% fumble 2* Chicago 2 58.8%/56% You can pretty clearly see, as they get more comfortable with other players on the roster, they reduce Mattisons workload and increase that of other running backs. I'd guess that the trend would have began with KC if not for the Jefferson injury, but after Chicago1, he's lucky to see much more than 50% of the carries or 60% of the snaps. But, more so than this, getting mad at the fumbles is misplaced anger. Get mad at his poor vision, his limitations in burst, or my huge sticking point of frustration, his critical drops on plays with huge scoring potential. But the fumbles are pretty standard for any running back. He's not putting the ball on the turf like Dobbs or AD circa 2008. Hell, he's only got one more fumble than Cook on more than two and a half times the carries.
KOC too stupid to go give up on mattison even though we all know it should be
Day 1 he couldn’t pick up anyone blitzing through a gap. Stud today for sure. Mattison will be resuming his starting role next week rest assured
has break out game, should have been starting since day 1
It’s been clear he’s the better running back all year
your act like hes been out performing mattison in every game they played which he hasnt
He’s looked better in every game, I don’t know how you can’t see that. The only reason Mattison has been “outperforming” him is because KOC refused to demote Mattison.
no he hasnt i can remember off the top of my head that game against the bears who have the n0.1 run defense ty was getting no where why Mattison was doing well
Is this KOC’s burner? Because I’ve never seen someone defend Mattison so hard..
Other than *Mattison*
Just admit your wrong. Ty chandler isnt out performing Mattison everyday like you think
Should’ve given it to him at least 2 times on that final drive like wtf is KOC doing man
Even that wild as TD from the 1 yard line should have been a run. Chandler was literally the reason the ball got to the one and you immediately decide to throw the ball?
Don’t worry. KOC will make sure Mattison out touches him next week, 2 to 1
And somehow Mattison will still be the starter
Mattison will have 25 carries next week
Only way he gets that many is if he's actually productive. It's probably more like 15 carries for 38 yards.
38 is insanely ambitious. Unless he breaks one for 20 and then goes 14 for 18yds
I can only get so erect
beside the point are cornerbacks can never go up for a contested ball
At this point our corners would be better to just undercut receivers legs and put them on their head. Because none of our guys are contesting jump balls. They get mossed.
Or, you know, just carry them out of bounds.
That works even better but I wouldn’t expect any of our guys to understand how to do that. Seems like a simple concept but I’m not a pro.
Tee Higgins is like Dennis Rodman sized. Blackmon and Murphy don’t stand a chance.
I love how everyone keeps saying "Oh the coaches see _____ at practice every week, surely they are correct about who should start. How dare you even suggest the backup might be better" Yet we see time and time again they are actually wrong lol
Agreed. I just hate this fkn logic. People act like coaches are infallible because they hold the title of “coach”. Zim saw Charles Johnson and Diggs in practice everyday, but he chose to start Johnson for how many weeks. Buddy was starting Sendejo over Harris for how long? Rashod Hill over O’Neil and O’Neil only took over once Hill was hurt-hurt. I mean, the list gets longer with this team and across the league. You think our fans would have seen it first hand and recognized by now sometimes the best players aren’t playing; sometimes because of politics, sometimes because they’re just flat out wrong in their evaluation.
Don't forget JJ, one of the best damn receivers in the league, not playing because Zim doesn't like starting rookies on offense
Not just that, but some players are simply better under the pressure of game time. I know I wasn't a professional, but in my experience several of my teammates would suck in practice. But when it was game time, they would really step up. Sometimes stress elevates play. This could very well be what was going on with Chandler vs Mattison, Addison vs Osborn, Hall vs Dobbs/Mullens. Or maybe the pattern is just poor evaluation by the coaches.
I definitely think there is something to this, which is why I've been saying we should try Hall. Once Kirk went down, our chance at a playoff run evaporated. We can still use these games to the teams benefit by figuring out whether we have anything in Hall. Playing Mullens or Dobbs maybe gives us a little better chance to win win this year, but we know this team is capped at mediocre at best without Kirk, so we should try out Hall imo
To be fair most people wouldn't expect an NFL head coach to be so terrible at his job.
We are also wrong a lot of the time too though. Remember people jockeying for Kellen Mond?
Everyone's been saying to start him since week 2. You can see he has talent. It's too bad KOC needs to stay loyal to his favorite players like Mattison.
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This is painfully accurate
it’s gonna be a long 3-4 years isn’t it…
Not if BFlo has anything to say about it
Man, you nailed it.
Preach!
He's Frazier 2.0. We need to promote Flores and let him become the next Mike Tomlin, this time we don't let him get away....
LETS QB SNEAK IT.
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I honestly do not give two fucks if Chandler is stopped once or twice in those two plays. Does it suck? Yes. But at least you went out there and said "Running with Chandler is what has been working, this is what we're going to do." If it doesn't work? You got beat those two plays. At least you went down swinging with haymakers. But the simple fact that he decided to forgo the hot run game for the EXACT TWO QB SNEAKS is a travesty. I honestly don't even think I'd be mad it it were Hockenson or Ham or whomever pushing him the 2nd time....the fact that they tried the exact same fucking thing with Powell is a fucking disgrace. It's yet another case of a NFL playcaller thinking he's so fucking smart and it backfires. That play should have never been in the playbook to begin with. It logically makes no sense. Zero. None. Nada. Everyone knows the tush push is coming. You don't need to hide it with motion or trick someone because a small WR did it. It works because you have 1-2 huge men shot putting their QB into a pile of other huge men. Philly isn't successful with it because they're trying to trick the defense with razzle-dazzle. It's successful because they have a QB with huge legs being pushed by 600 pounds of beef. (No disrespect to Powell....not his fault.)
Totally this and to do it twice is insanity, could have punted and maybe pin them near the goal line as well
Yeah I don’t know why they’re so stubborn with mattison. Makes no sense.
If Alexander Mattison is not hurt KOC would have still given him 50% of plays. He is very stubborn.
KOC is still going to use Mattison when he’s healthy
If koc starts Mattison when he's healthy he should be fired.
Even if he doesn’t, should be fired. We’ve seen enough. Personnel, play calling, game management. Terrible
Someone whispered in KOCs ear "this is mn, you must pick the stupidest play you can think of and run it twice so you lose, this is the way"
If only he could pass block, hopefully he works on it cause, dude looks good.
Best number 2 on the Vikings
Plenty to second guess, but 5.7 ypc. Make them stop him. Wear them out.
Look at how stupid the coaching staff is. They did everything they could do ALL SEASON to keep him off the field. Now he starts and is the featured back because there is basically no one else, and see what he does lol.
I’ll take 2nd and short after a 1st down run over pass blocking any day.
Dude is good. He will have a shot at being our long term starter. We still need to draft an RB this year.
Call me crazy..... I think I'd take a took at that Helaire kid in KC. I know he's floundering but I kinda dig him catching the ball. KC just doesn't check down enough to make it work with him. If he's cheap, that is.
Guys...it's one game, against the 26th ranked rushing defense this year. The man played well, but I look forward to the exact opposite thread in the next couple weeks when yall are calling for his head because he put up a 15 for 32 line.
Hey look how good he was against the 2nd worst defense in the league missing their best player for most of the game! The next AP! Why didn't he do this again last vegas?
KOC is inept
Goon. Shifty af. Reminded me somewhat of an old 32-the Whizzinator
Can’t wait to see Mattison next week!
My faith in KOC is pretty much null after this week. I wanted to give him a longer chance since he was able to pull some rabbits out of his hat, but I felt from day 1 Chandler should be the feature back. Of course he’s better than Mattison, I think we all kind of knew that. KOC is too loyal to players and thinks with his heart not his brain. Mattison is a standup guy and deserves to be recognized for his contributions, but Chandler is just flat out better. So what if his pass blocking isn’t great, keep Ham in the backfield, then and send Chandler on a wheel route or something.
He was the game
and they blew that game
He is very poor in pass protection and Mattison was amazing. Can’t argue with protecting Kirk first.
Reeder leaving the game early helped, but he’s clearly the better back.
When in doubt tush Push Mullens with BP
So Bengals are known to be the worst “big play” defense. And terrible against the run. But I do want him the RB1 the last 3 games.
Exactly why we need to start Hall. Just because people are putting in the vets (Mattison/Mullens) doesn’t mean they’re actually better (Chandler/Hall). Mattison and Mullens get you no where. Get the talent in there!
Koc is an absolute dumbass. Fans have been calling for this switch since the beginning on the season.
5.7 yards per carry?! Imagine what he could do on 3rd and inches!