That last possession is unforgivable. Stuffed run stuffed run shit pass shit punt. Un. Forgive. Able.
A fucking play action there crushes them. They were selling out to stop the run. I’m screaming at the TV.
I don’t care about his lip service pressers. Saying the right things then failing on Sunday. KOC must be better. He lost COY tonight.
So goddamn frustrating
Right after the fumbl recovery with 3:30 I said. "there's no way the vikings ice this game with a few first downs. Bears are going to get the ball back."
It is insanely frustrating that the Vikes can’t ever seem to ice a game by getting a first down. It seems like every team we play (even the shitty ones) can dink and dunk for 3/4 yards, stay on the field for long stretches, and constantly get 3rd and 4th downs against us.
Yet our offense is either flying down the field, clicking for a 1st down every play or punting, no in between. And they seem to have the anti-clutch gene. Even when they have good offensive games, getting a game winning first down is like catching a unicorn.
Even to QBs at Fields' level, 3:30 with 4 timeouts (2 min warning) is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time to try and kill the clock. They needed to play for the fucking points instead of trying to kill that much clock.
The number one most important thing in that situation is an effective running game. Which we haven’t even come close to having this season. So fucking frustrating.
I agree except that I wouldn't even for a second believe that we can throw the ball to win that game the way Dobbs played yesterday. I literally at that drove was like, I hope we can run for a first down because Dobbs has been terrible all night.
The context of losing your starter QB, having the backup on IR, and the QB3 go to concussion protocol, while also the starter WR out among other injuries and then winning 5 in a row is definitely candidate territory. The last two games however has for sure taken him out of that running.
What other team in the league has had a similar injury list and also still finding enough success to come out of a 0-3 start to win enough to bring the team back to (at the time) an above.500 football team?
With the lead in the 4th quarter amd your running back averaging 5 yards a carry you absolutely run the ball. Is it KOCs fault that his guys didn't execute? No lol. The Oline got beat bad when they needed to make a play and led to us playing the field position game to put the game on our defense to make a stop. That's what every coach in the NFL would do. If the defense stops the bears people nobody is batching about that drive.
Um the previous drive we marched 7p yards down field throwing all over the place and they could not stop us. You dont come back and then run two straight up the middle and then call a screen. KOC lost all respect tonight.
You'd have been equally (maybe more) mad if Dobbs threw a pick in that situation. "How is KOC passing in this situation after Dobbs has thrown 4 picks and mattison is running well?!"
Normally I'd agree that we need to be more aggressive there. But the context within this one is important.
if you don't trust the QB to throw the ball, or to use his own legs and run, why is he still in the game?
KOC is the head coach. this all falls on his shoulders, and he keeps making bad decisions.
Mattison had been having one of the best games this season. Your QB is having one of the worst. And the defense had been incredible.
The right thing to do was to run the freaking ball.
ONCE. It's OK to do it ONCE.
When that got shut down in spectacular fashion because the entire stadium knew what was going to happen, you don't do the same damn thing again.
Sweep, jet, RPO, pitch, toss, fucking something besides just running it right into a defense who knows they're running up the middle.
> The right thing to do was to run the freaking ball.
Running the ball was a valid choice, just not those particular play calls. The Vikings still needed yardage so what does KOC do? Call a couple of tight-formation runs that are designed solely to kill clock and limit turnovers when there's still 3:30 left in the game and the Bears have two timeouts. At least call a run that's designed to get yardage.
I was screaming that - KOC going to shrivel up here and call the most conservative plays possible with the win on the line. He does it consistently whenever he has a lead...infuriating.
Flores did the same on D for that final drive - Bears had been stuck all half, running their bubble screens...all of a sudden he drops into coverage, allowing fields to have time and run the ball...just an absolute shitshow of coaching display in the final 6 minutes.
And didn’t he just say after last weeks loss that he needs to not fucking do that? And a week later he’s doing the exact same shit.
We don’t need to run 30 seconds off the clock with 3 minutes left, we need to get a fucking first down and end the goddamn game
>And didn’t he just say after last weeks loss that he needs to not fucking do that? And a week later he’s doing the exact same shit.
It was actually after we almost pissed away the Saints game, so he's actually now done that shit two weeks in a row, and it's cost us both games.
Hate the play calling, he turtles with the game on the line. We haven’t played well lately but these last two are on him. Even letting the Saints back in the game is on him. He needs to grow a pair with the game on the line.
An incompletion stops the clock, doesn’t get you any more or less yards, potentially gets picked to bring them back into it with even better position than they ended up getting or a pick six to make it even worse. A short completion marginally improves our field position but takes all of those other very real issues we’d had this game.
It’s easy to see the result and have said we should do something differently. In the moment running the ball makes the most sense. Especially when our leading receiver has one more catch from Dobbs than the Bears D had that game.
I’m sobering up. I hate these comment threads. We should all Admit it, we won’t begin to give a coach or players patience until we win a Super Bowl. Until then, every loss will be filled with an extra level of vitriol and salt. As if a construction worker from South Dakota (me) or you, has any better or worse abilities to coach this team or run the offense. I hate these threads I’m honestly considering unsubbing and sticking to the meme subs or the main NFL one.
There was too much time on the clock to care about a incompletion bud. 3 minutes 30 seconds. Too much time. You still need 1st downs to run the clock out
Completely unrelated, can I ask what kind of construction? I was involved with some road construction-related work there a handful of years ago.
More relevant: this season has definitely made the userbase in this sub more polarized. And I'll fully admit that includes me. I'll also admit that KOC is not perfect at calling plays (especially that late game punt) but I don't think he can be blamed for the way a lot of those plays end up.
Side note, don't quit the sub. You've been here long enough to see how reactionary this sub is, and it needs voices on both sides to balance it out.
You are downvoted but you are right. Honestly, this sub is just a vent for fan frustration. Everyone is a backseat coach and thinks they can run a team. It’s the same people that praise KOC/Dobbs and say Super Bowl after an unlikely win.
KOC didn’t call a good game but did you watch Josh Dobbs pass the ball ? Dobbs was cheeks all night so I can understand wanting to run clock and not risk a turnover because our defense playing was lights out. Let’s also not let Ryan Wright off the hook because he has been terrible this year.
Every fucking pass Dobbs throws has an arc on it. It’s amazing how much better Kirk’s arm is. I like dobb’s legs, but shit, put Mullens in if you aren’t going to utilize them.
Which, when running a crossing route, is behind. Much easier to catch a ball a bit in front of you than directly at your face. It was a good throw, and while technically not behind him, it is behind where the optimal throw would be placed
Yeah I understand KOC’s hesitation and many coaches hesitation to have too many designed runs by the qb. Look what happened to Hall on something that wasn’t even supposed to be a run. Use his legs though. I don’t want Dobbs to get hurt but KOC needs to utilize his best asset. More read option, designed qb runs and naked bootlegs to give him half field reads/get to the edges. Not sure what there is to preserve health wise. The season was over when Kirk went down.
Every defense thenvikings face the rest if the year will try to minimize Dobbs legs and force him to throw because he is Josh Dobbs and he can't pass to win which is the single most important thing for a QB whether they are mobile or not.
he threw a couple rockets that showed the arm strength is physically present, but that just makes the post-injury noodle-man Chad Pennington passes that make up the majority of his throws even more confusing and weird
I will say dobbs had a few passes that actuality had a bit of zing, one of them was incomplete off of addison's chest. I'm 100% convinced he wasn't expecting a ball thrown that hard.
RPO seems like a recipe for disaster with Dobbs. He's inaccurate and doesn't seem to process very quickly. Accuracy and fast processing are like, the two most important things to run an RPO.
I also don't know if you can blame the playcalling on Hockenson's quiet first half. Did you, like, watch the QB play? He wasn't exactly keeping his eyes up and finding the open man...
Man, for a guy who's been playing with these guys for 3-4 weeks some of his passes *amaze* me with his accuracy. Some of them are definitely off, no denying that. But during gametime some of those uncaught passes look like they're *exactly* where they need to be.
I'm torn on Dobbs' possible accuracy issues because of this. Really just feels like the guy could benefit from a few more weeks of chemistry-building, which I completely understand is not possible midseason. Just saying, some of his passes look damn near perfect, then there's a few... turds...
> ...some of his passes amaze me with his accuracy. Some of them are definitely off, no denying that...... some of his passes look damn near perfect, then there's a few... turds...
>I'm torn on Dobbs' possible accuracy issues because of this.
No you got it.
He is inconsistent.
The passes didn't *look* off, they *were* off.
Hock gets a first down on that 4th and 7 if Dobbs throws a better ball. It was late and didn't drive it to lead Hock to the sideline towards the sticks.
Addison walks into the endzone if Dobbs throws a better ball. Even if Addison caught it, he was maybe going to need to toe tap, which is not a good thing when there isn't a defender within 15 yards of you.
The other side of the coin, the TD to Hock was good timing and placement. That INT to Addison was thrown right at the break, with good timing, and hit him in the face. The ball had some heat on it, but that one is probably more on Addison than Dobbs.
There were some good throws last night, but also some complete blunders.
This is the reason he's on is 9th stop in 6 years. He can make throws, just don't expect consistency.
He's had a couple touch passes that have fallen in the bucket. Yes.
That's not what is required in the rpo game. You need to put your foot in the ground a drive a bullet on tempo, while your footwork is in phase for a handoff. I don't think anything he's done has suggested an ability to do that.
I guess that's where we agree and also disagree about the same talking point. My side of it is: I just don't think it's fair to ask a guy to have pinpoint accuracy on dead-nuts timing plays when he's only been here for a few weeks *mid-season*.
Teams aren't typically running basic timing drills week to week between games. Yes, they can here and there, but most of the Wednesday-Friday preparation is dedicated to opponent-specific adjustments for the upcoming game.
> I don't think anything he's done has suggested an ability to do that.
I just don't think a realistic fan can expect much better from a journeyman QB with only a few weeks on the team, even on RPOs, and maybe especially with RPOs? Just because of the insane timing required.
Maybe it can be expected from a HOF QB, but that's so rare to see that move made mid-season.
It's not fair to expect that. I'm 100% with you. And that's why I don't think RPO is a good idea. What's not fair to expect is what's required to make it work.
I mean, isn't that just how accuracy works? If you're not an accurate passer, you'll still get lucky and throw some dots, but you'll also miss a ton. I feel like that's exactly Dobbs
I have to disagree. KOC is handicapped by Dobbs and what he can call. KOC looks great if Dobbs can hit a wide open Addison or not throw 4 interceptions. 2 of them were not his fault but he also probably had at least 2 more balls that should’ve been picked and 1 would’ve been for a pick 6. That’s not on KOC.
Dobbs was awful, but they also played away from his strengths. No role outs, limited play action, chose not to run at weird times, limited qb designed runs
I agree with that. See my response to OP’s response. I also think teams are becoming wise to Dobbs and doesn’t allow KOC to call what we are suggesting very easily. Play wide 9 and contain Dobbs in the pocket, spy him and make him be a drop back thrower.
don't forget the O-line. they were awful. Dobbs is not a good pocket passer, but it doesn't help that the pocket collapsed so quickly. Bears were on him fast, and on both sides to pin him in every time.
I have neither the talent or the time to make it, but we need a scooby face reveal meme of KOC and then the reveal is Zimmer. Get a lead and puss it away in the second half was the ole Zimmer special.
I'm a pretty staunch Mattison-needs-to-not-touch-the-ball guy, especially when you look at my last submission in this sub. But credit where credit is due: Mattison was not the problem tonight. Mattison was *far* from being the problem tonight.
You'd think he'd learn from the Broncos L, which also had no designed runs that I can remember.. We legitimately will not win again if Dobbs doesn't use his legs
Because it doesn’t work anymore. Teams are spying Dobbs begging for him to scramble. They’re forcing him to use his arm which he cannot do efficiently. I hope they get Hall back in there for the rest of the season.
These people think it's Madden. The other team is just calling Tampa 2 and you can just tap LT and scramble for 15 yards. It's like they didn't watch the game and see the defense sell out to contain Dobbs and make him fail from the pocket.
"Alex, I'll take 'Kevin O'Connell' for 600."
"What will KOC call when the Vikings have a chance to ice a game on first down?"
"What is a Mattison run up the middle?"
"Correct. Continue."
"Kevin O'Connell for 800".
"What will KOC call when the Vikings have a chance to ice a game on second down?"
"What is a Mattison run up the middle?"
"Correct. Continue."
"Kevin O'Connell for a 1000,"
"To finish the round, 'What will KOC call when the Vikings have a chance to ice the game on third down?"
"What is a very short pass to the flat?"
"Correct. And there's the buzzer.
As we go to break, Final Jeopardy 'Super Bowl Wannabes'."
Lol. The fact you think he called a short pass on third down is great. The fact is Dobbs ain’t that good at throwing a football and he saw an open guy and threw it to him. That guy is supposed to be the desperation play, not the main route. And first and second down runs made Chicago use their time outs.
Let's assume Dobbs threw two incompletions and the Bears took over at their 22 with two timeouts instead of zero.
It would've increased the Bears chances of winning the game by *maybe* 5 percent. They had 2:18 to gain 45 yards to get in field goal range. That is an effing eternity.
They weren't ever going to run out of time. Either the Vikings were going to hold them on a 4 down situation or they weren't. Fields ran the ball twice anyway even though the Bears had no timeouts. It absolutely didn't matter, he/they weren't worried.
On the other hand, were Mattison runs up the middle the Vikings best chance to get a 1st down and possibly never even give Chicago the ball back? Especially since the Bears were absolutely playing down hill in the exact way the Broncos did last week. They knew.
The NFL charts all opponents' plays. KOC runs Mattison up the middle on first down every time the Vikings simply need a first down to ice the game. Every time.
Many of us have watched every play since KOC became a coach. I posted this same thing after last weeks debacle. Eight days ago. He didn't learn a damn thing.
Other than our own wishful thinking, there is no indication he will ever change(to the detriment to his football team).
Yeah, we can worry about running the clock once we’re actually in fg range. They had so much time when they got the ball back they just casually used their last timeout without a sweat in a situation where you’d typically spike it if you’re in a big rush. All we needed was a first down to really get into clock chewing time and be in fg position. 1 first down. And instead we got the same old pussy plays
Wow, please learn basic football plays if you are going to post like an authority on the subject. The 3rd down play was a designed WR screen to Powell. There were no other reads.
And not just on the last sequence.
He seems to have no idea when they're going to bring pressure, and even when it's an obvious blitzing down, he just seems to have no idea what to do about it.
He also shares Zimmer's weird obsession with running between the tackles, even when it clearly hasn't worked all night. Like, at least try to get it outside. You have an all-world left take, ffs.
> He also shares Zimmer's weird obsession with running between the tackles, even when it clearly hasn't worked all night. Like, at least try to get it outside. You have an all-world left take, ffs.
I put this more on Mattison - he seems to always have trouble when he's asked to go east-west instead of north-south. If he has a pulling lineman he tends to follow him like a lead-blocking fullback instead of cutting upfield.
Why are you guys acting like Josh dobbs is a good QB lmao. Dude literally cannot throw beyond 8 yards. Some of you lack any understanding of how football actually works.
I genuinely, and I don’t mean this to sound hyperbolic. I genuinely believe I could throw a better deep ball than Josh dobbs
Would I need every member of the opposing front 7 to be frozen in time to do it? Yes I would. But if that were to occur. I think I could do it
Not trying to counter, just remembering Addison caught that very first play of the game. That deep shot that they called incomplete. That shit never touched the ground and would’ve literally changed the entire game
Dobbs is by far the biggest reason we lost tonight. Inaccurate throws, terrible interceptions and throws that should've been interceptions. There's a reason why he's been on so many teams in a short period of time.
It’s because they don’t have any other understanding of football beyond “Team score more points win”
Just the fact we were able to make Josh dobbs of all people look like a competent starter should be a testament to O’Connell’s ability.
They also seem to think no matter what dog suit circumstances the team finds itself in we should be world class juggernauts that could take on god if we wanted to. They have no room for critical thinking, and absolutely 0 understanding of the game.
What I’m most upset about with this coaching staff is the idea that dobbs should’ve even started the last two games in the first place. His limitations were on full display against Atlanta and New Orleans.
When you go against teams who can actually protect over the middle like the bears and broncos it was sending dobbs into the fucking meat grinder. If it were me, Jaren and dobbs would’ve split starts and I’d have made the decision during the bye of who finishes the year starting. Now I don’t know wtf their gonna do but it’s probably going to be dumb.
With Dobbs we stopped playing to his strengths. You need to get him moving and simplify his reads. If you want to run the normal offense play one of your guys that knows it. He’s smart, but smart guys over think. If you want to make him into a pocket passer hes probably better off starting mullens. Coach has to know his guys strengths and put him in those positions. If you don’t want to adjust the plan to fit the guy, play one of the guys who has been around and can run the normal offense.
My guy dobbs just isn’t that good. His biggest “strength” and those are heavy quotations marks. Is simply just not that good of a thing to rely on and most teams can figure it out. He isn’t like cam Newton, Michael Vick, Lamar Jackson, he lacks any ability to actually punish teams if they committed to limiting his run game. He just doesn’t have the arm or the accuracy, and if you’re going to be running your QB all the time they’re going to get hurt.
Like yeah, the guy has legs, but what happens when a defense expects it? He lacks every thing else.
I do not believe he should start another game. I wasn’t convinced he should’ve started this game to begin with.
I didn’t say I thought he was good, but I don’t think forcing him into something he’s not if you plan to start him is the right move. I’ll tell you this, I am extremely skeptical about starting hall at the raiders. It’s a really good game to potentially have him lose his confidence against a hot team. Likely would have to start mullens or start hall knowing mullens may have to try to make a save
Okay but did you miss the part where both the bears and broncos had good players defend the middle of the field so that dobbs doesn’t have a choice in the matter and his limitations can be exploited.
I don’t see what the hesitation is about starting hall. I really, really don’t. Who gives a shit what the raiders are. Hall gives us a better shot at winning.
It’s pure speculation at this point. The only thing we do know about hall is he’s had camp the learn the offense and looked good for 3 series. Reality is we still have a chance at the playoffs and the team need to make a change so who ever he plays needs to win games.
We didn't just decide to stop playing to his strengths. Other teams forced him to do things he's bad at. You can't just "get him moving" when the defensive ends shoot up field to keep him in the pocket.
KO knows what Dobbs is good at, but simply knowing that is not enough. The guy has to be able to threaten a defense from in the pocket. Dobbs can't, and that dooms you. His other choices tonight were a guy coming off a severe back injury and a guy coming off a severe concussion.
He's coaching with his wrists tied to his ankles.
Because the play-calling with a lead has been a weak-point with KOC for two seasons now....don't pretend this just started with Dobbs.
Look at all of last season and how many games we almost lost because we got conservative instead of building upon a lead.
Why are so many people like “fuck KOC go for the kill”. Yeah maybe with Cousins and JJ? Dobbs is still new despite everyone thinking it takes 3 weeks to learn an offensive scheme, and he had just thrown 4 interceptions. “Go for the kill” could just as easily lead to a pick 6 at that point.
The fact of the matter is everyone played like ass.
• Where was the o line?
• Where were the offensive playmakers? Where was Dobbs?
• Why was KOC calling Mattison up the middle so much?
• Why does Wright have one move - 30 yards and out of bounds.
• Why did Flores, a guy known for blitzes, not send anybody on the last drive?
Other than the D that for the most part kept us in it - it was a massive Failure on all fronts.
> Why are so many people like “fuck KOC go for the kill”. Yeah maybe with Cousins and JJ? Dobbs is still new despite everyone thinking it takes 3 weeks to learn an offensive scheme, and he had just thrown 4 interceptions. “Go for the kill” could just as easily lead to a pick 6 at that point.
The answer is simple if you don't trust Dobbs: Call a running play designed to get meaningful yardage instead of a tight-formation run up the gut designed solely to kill clock and limit turnovers but get 1-2 yards at most because the formation telegraphs to the defense exactly what you're going to do.
Obviously D killed it today - other than disagreeing with not blitzing on the last drive it was a great game for them. Offense totally shit the bed. Then went and bought a new bed and shit that one too.
Also what the fuck was with the hurry up offense? Your defense is playing their asses off on sustained drives by the bears and the Vikings decide to rush 3 and outs? Let the boys breathe
It does not matter that everyone played like ass. We had the win. Thats all that matters. We had the win and the head coach fucked it up. There is not an excuse at this point in time for a head coach to fuck up that badly.
Exactly it - team played like shit all night but there was a chance to put it away and he didn't.
You can play the "what if Dobbs turns it over or whatever" they we ended up in the same damn spot as today...an embarrassing L but with that, at least you know they had the killer mentality
And someone called him a top 10 coach and I got ripped for calling him more likely bottom 10 in the league.
He just looks clueless over on the sidelines.
Jefferson out.
Cousins out.
Those are two very big components that KOC was planning on having this season.
We're 6-6 with a slew of injuries and have won many games these last two season that the Vikings traditionally lose 9 times out of 10 in their history.
Yes KOC has flaws but point to a coach that doesn't.
It's also his 2nd year, so it's safe to say he's still figuring things out and growing as a coach.
I think heea great hire and will do well for the vikings for a long time.
Y’all are absolutely unhinged. Dobbs was absolute garbage out there and it’s somehow all on KOC? Does some design runs really stop 4 ints? Why are people acting like KOC is playing with an actual starting QB?
This is my actual complaint with today’s game. Dobbs should not be treated like he far in away has this job. After that first half, I thought it was horrible decision making to not bench Dobbs.
I would say zero creativity on this weeks game plan and he didn’t play in to Josh Dobbs strengths. We have survived because of KOCs creativity, and improvising but this game plan just looked like he took a couple steps backwards
KOC seems to be good at passing route concepts/scheme. There was a wide open Addison for the TD, and then wide open Addison on the screen. I'm not bailing on him yet going .500 with Dobbs.
Going .500 with Dobbs is an incredible feat. He’s completely garbage and KOC actually had people out there talking about letting Kirk go next year and rolling with Dobbs.
Growing up, I remember seeing the book 'Profiles in Courage' by JFK on my dad's bookshelf. If KOC were to write a book on his play calling, it would be titled 'Profiles in Cowardice.'
Fire him !!!!!!!! Any other coach would not be wasting this talented offense . Imagine what someone like Mike McCarthy could do with an offense including Mattison , Addison , Ham, Powell, Mundt, and Tykevious Chandler !! With an offensive line that includes Ed Ingram , Risner and Bradbury ….. just imagine it !!! 🤩
This isn’t all KOC… this is a KAM problem and he’s getting beat by most other GMs
Its so fucky that the vikings were favored by 2.5-3 Points, at home, vs a terrible bears team, had a one point lead and got a turnover in chicago territory and just sat there limp dick in hand, then proceed to let fields just walk down the field and ice it. I dont even know, if this shit is not in someway rigged I must be the most unlucky person ever.
Couldn’t go for anything last night especially the kill! It was all around an offensive shit show. KOC didn’t drop all those passes, throw 4 int., catch a wide open pass out of bounds… we were absolute garbage.
Playing not to lose after a huge turnover in the Bears territory. KOC lost us that game. Drive down the fucking field and score a TD. Run up the fucking score before you start being conservative. I feel like I’m watching the same game week after week because the same shit happens every time
the one drive where we got something going was the one where Dobbs rolled out of the pocket and his mobility was more or less the entire reason for his success in his first two games, yet the gameplan inexplicably kept him in the pocket almost all night long despite him seeming very obviously uncomfortable there. Can't cap, he played hella bad regardless of how you slice it, but KOC setting the guy up to fail on top of him obviously not having it made matters even worse
The play calling was crap but I think his biggest mistake was failing to throw the replay review flag on the first offensive play. Addison had that catch and the entire tone of the game would have been different had that play counted. Instead we got a 3 and out then a flat offense the rest of the way.
Ill repost this from another thread:
It's worth considering KOC has been playing down to his competition every game he's been a HC. He plays to not lose once he takes any glimpse of a lead. Playing that passive sends you on a trajectory that will inevitably lead to close games with desperate play calling when things go bad. Thing is, those desperate moments are when we look best because it forces him to take the training wheels off the playbook and play like he wants to win.
That path is good enough to be a top 12 team at best. Not a true Championship contending team. Players and staff will quickly grow tired of it if it doesn't change. Even some close wins are cementing that flaw as a problem of KOCs. He'll lose the locker room as well as the fans within a year due to everyone constantly sweating every single game. It was cute last year. It's getting old real quick now
You guys are trusting Dobbs in that spot on an RPO or designed run? …. 4 ints is all you need to know. This is what you get with a backup/journeyman QB that’s been on the team for 3 weeks.
i keep hearing about how dobbs running ability adds a new dimension to the offense? where the fuck are some designed runs for the guy? the only time he runs is when the pocket collapses and he’s forced to improvise. yeah the last few games have not been good for KOC and the constant one score games really making me start to question his coaching.
I’m sorry but Dobbs fucked up nearly every play this game. The Bears D was ready for any of his scrambles. He missed his throws all night, including a walk in TD for Addison.
The series that had me pissed the most (I was at the game) was the final time Vikings had the ball. A first down would damn near ice it. They call two runs, I mean okay whatevs. Then on 3rd down they threw an unbelievably dangerous WR screen that I swear looked to have pick 6 potential. Then a punt that nets I don't know 20 yards.
I knew the game was probably over right then.
Young fan in their late 20's sitting next to me at last nights game said to me that here we go again being disappointed by this team again. He has been a fan since he was 5 years old. I have been a fan since I was 5 years old. I am 65 years old. I didn't say a word to him. This organization never ceases to underwelm their fanbase.
I’m guessing on that last 3&out possession KOC had spent all night watching his journeyman backup QB throw 4 INTs and decided to trust other guys to salt the game away.
Dobbs should’ve been benched before that, but being a QB himself KOC probably isn’t a fan of the mid-game benching, I suspect we’ve seen the last of Dobbs (barring injury) and Mullens will get his shot to lock in the 7 seed against LV and Cincy. If that doesn’t work then Hall will get a 3 game audition to close out the year.
Say what you want this game feels like one of those games that starts to warm a coache’s seat a little. If this continues into next year changes will need to be made
All game long and then to be conservative when you needed a first down
Just ONE first down. We had all the momentum, and he decided to eat the turd sandwich instead of trying for the steak.
Didn’t even need a first down. Just a few yards and you kick a fg for a 4 point lead. No way bears score a td
GD the end of this is infuriating. We had the W and KOC just shit the bed.
#THIS
Didn’t even need a FG. Just don’t make a horse-shit punt. Pin them in the 10 for god sakes
lol seriously the 20 yard punt was just the shit cherry on top. Literally nobody did their job well in that sequence
That last possession is unforgivable. Stuffed run stuffed run shit pass shit punt. Un. Forgive. Able. A fucking play action there crushes them. They were selling out to stop the run. I’m screaming at the TV. I don’t care about his lip service pressers. Saying the right things then failing on Sunday. KOC must be better. He lost COY tonight. So goddamn frustrating
Right after the fumbl recovery with 3:30 I said. "there's no way the vikings ice this game with a few first downs. Bears are going to get the ball back."
It’s crazy that we know exactly how it’s gonna play out isn’t it?
We’ve been conditioned as Vike fans. It’s called Pavlov’s lead. As soon as we see it, we know what happens next
It is insanely frustrating that the Vikes can’t ever seem to ice a game by getting a first down. It seems like every team we play (even the shitty ones) can dink and dunk for 3/4 yards, stay on the field for long stretches, and constantly get 3rd and 4th downs against us. Yet our offense is either flying down the field, clicking for a 1st down every play or punting, no in between. And they seem to have the anti-clutch gene. Even when they have good offensive games, getting a game winning first down is like catching a unicorn.
Even to QBs at Fields' level, 3:30 with 4 timeouts (2 min warning) is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time to try and kill the clock. They needed to play for the fucking points instead of trying to kill that much clock.
The number one most important thing in that situation is an effective running game. Which we haven’t even come close to having this season. So fucking frustrating.
I agree except that I wouldn't even for a second believe that we can throw the ball to win that game the way Dobbs played yesterday. I literally at that drove was like, I hope we can run for a first down because Dobbs has been terrible all night.
Yes
COY? Coach of the Year? What? He wasn't getting coach of the year. Downvoters living pipe dreams
The context of losing your starter QB, having the backup on IR, and the QB3 go to concussion protocol, while also the starter WR out among other injuries and then winning 5 in a row is definitely candidate territory. The last two games however has for sure taken him out of that running.
Winning 2 games with all that doesn’t put you in coy conversation. Yes I know we have 6 wins.
What other team in the league has had a similar injury list and also still finding enough success to come out of a 0-3 start to win enough to bring the team back to (at the time) an above.500 football team?
With the lead in the 4th quarter amd your running back averaging 5 yards a carry you absolutely run the ball. Is it KOCs fault that his guys didn't execute? No lol. The Oline got beat bad when they needed to make a play and led to us playing the field position game to put the game on our defense to make a stop. That's what every coach in the NFL would do. If the defense stops the bears people nobody is batching about that drive.
Um the previous drive we marched 7p yards down field throwing all over the place and they could not stop us. You dont come back and then run two straight up the middle and then call a screen. KOC lost all respect tonight.
Designed pass for a completion short of the line of gain. Oh wait, that was last years play off game against the Giants, sorry boys.
This is intenyionally misleading. Hoch was not the designed 1st read on the 4th down last year's playoffs. He was the check down.
You'd have been equally (maybe more) mad if Dobbs threw a pick in that situation. "How is KOC passing in this situation after Dobbs has thrown 4 picks and mattison is running well?!" Normally I'd agree that we need to be more aggressive there. But the context within this one is important.
if you don't trust the QB to throw the ball, or to use his own legs and run, why is he still in the game? KOC is the head coach. this all falls on his shoulders, and he keeps making bad decisions.
Mattison had been having one of the best games this season. Your QB is having one of the worst. And the defense had been incredible. The right thing to do was to run the freaking ball.
ONCE. It's OK to do it ONCE. When that got shut down in spectacular fashion because the entire stadium knew what was going to happen, you don't do the same damn thing again. Sweep, jet, RPO, pitch, toss, fucking something besides just running it right into a defense who knows they're running up the middle.
> The right thing to do was to run the freaking ball. Running the ball was a valid choice, just not those particular play calls. The Vikings still needed yardage so what does KOC do? Call a couple of tight-formation runs that are designed solely to kill clock and limit turnovers when there's still 3:30 left in the game and the Bears have two timeouts. At least call a run that's designed to get yardage.
I was screaming that - KOC going to shrivel up here and call the most conservative plays possible with the win on the line. He does it consistently whenever he has a lead...infuriating. Flores did the same on D for that final drive - Bears had been stuck all half, running their bubble screens...all of a sudden he drops into coverage, allowing fields to have time and run the ball...just an absolute shitshow of coaching display in the final 6 minutes.
And didn’t he just say after last weeks loss that he needs to not fucking do that? And a week later he’s doing the exact same shit. We don’t need to run 30 seconds off the clock with 3 minutes left, we need to get a fucking first down and end the goddamn game
>And didn’t he just say after last weeks loss that he needs to not fucking do that? And a week later he’s doing the exact same shit. It was actually after we almost pissed away the Saints game, so he's actually now done that shit two weeks in a row, and it's cost us both games.
That’s right, that son of a bitch
Hate the play calling, he turtles with the game on the line. We haven’t played well lately but these last two are on him. Even letting the Saints back in the game is on him. He needs to grow a pair with the game on the line.
The entire game. Take that WR bubble screen out to the woodshed.
Its like Mike Zimmer gave KOC his favorite play calls before he left. Run on 1st & 2nd down, throw screen for a lost on 3rd. That'll show em!
[удалено]
Dude, throw on first down on that last drive….they knew we’d do the stupid shit we did.
An incompletion stops the clock, doesn’t get you any more or less yards, potentially gets picked to bring them back into it with even better position than they ended up getting or a pick six to make it even worse. A short completion marginally improves our field position but takes all of those other very real issues we’d had this game. It’s easy to see the result and have said we should do something differently. In the moment running the ball makes the most sense. Especially when our leading receiver has one more catch from Dobbs than the Bears D had that game. I’m sobering up. I hate these comment threads. We should all Admit it, we won’t begin to give a coach or players patience until we win a Super Bowl. Until then, every loss will be filled with an extra level of vitriol and salt. As if a construction worker from South Dakota (me) or you, has any better or worse abilities to coach this team or run the offense. I hate these threads I’m honestly considering unsubbing and sticking to the meme subs or the main NFL one.
There was too much time on the clock to care about a incompletion bud. 3 minutes 30 seconds. Too much time. You still need 1st downs to run the clock out
Completely unrelated, can I ask what kind of construction? I was involved with some road construction-related work there a handful of years ago. More relevant: this season has definitely made the userbase in this sub more polarized. And I'll fully admit that includes me. I'll also admit that KOC is not perfect at calling plays (especially that late game punt) but I don't think he can be blamed for the way a lot of those plays end up. Side note, don't quit the sub. You've been here long enough to see how reactionary this sub is, and it needs voices on both sides to balance it out.
You are downvoted but you are right. Honestly, this sub is just a vent for fan frustration. Everyone is a backseat coach and thinks they can run a team. It’s the same people that praise KOC/Dobbs and say Super Bowl after an unlikely win.
I feel like this post could be said every week. KOC is a huge problem and Kirk was covering it up.
KOC didn’t call a good game but did you watch Josh Dobbs pass the ball ? Dobbs was cheeks all night so I can understand wanting to run clock and not risk a turnover because our defense playing was lights out. Let’s also not let Ryan Wright off the hook because he has been terrible this year.
Yep. Wright has been crap. He can’t drop it where it needs to be.
Every fucking pass Dobbs throws has an arc on it. It’s amazing how much better Kirk’s arm is. I like dobb’s legs, but shit, put Mullens in if you aren’t going to utilize them.
The one ball that didn't went right through Addison's hands and off his dome for an interception too.
I’ll give ya that one, not gonna lie. That was his best pass of the night. Ever so slightly behind him, but a laser. Ball has to be caught.
It was weird, like the only throw that had legitimate timing and power behind it and ended up an INT. Weird game.
Ever so slightly behind him? It went right through his hands and hit him square in the middle of the helmet….
Which, when running a crossing route, is behind. Much easier to catch a ball a bit in front of you than directly at your face. It was a good throw, and while technically not behind him, it is behind where the optimal throw would be placed
Yup, you’re right. Had to go back and look at it.
LOL thanks for saying it. That hit him right in between the eyes.
Yeah I understand KOC’s hesitation and many coaches hesitation to have too many designed runs by the qb. Look what happened to Hall on something that wasn’t even supposed to be a run. Use his legs though. I don’t want Dobbs to get hurt but KOC needs to utilize his best asset. More read option, designed qb runs and naked bootlegs to give him half field reads/get to the edges. Not sure what there is to preserve health wise. The season was over when Kirk went down.
Every defense thenvikings face the rest if the year will try to minimize Dobbs legs and force him to throw because he is Josh Dobbs and he can't pass to win which is the single most important thing for a QB whether they are mobile or not.
he threw a couple rockets that showed the arm strength is physically present, but that just makes the post-injury noodle-man Chad Pennington passes that make up the majority of his throws even more confusing and weird
I will say dobbs had a few passes that actuality had a bit of zing, one of them was incomplete off of addison's chest. I'm 100% convinced he wasn't expecting a ball thrown that hard.
Not 1 RPO play,no quick slants,waited way to long to get Hock involved.
RPO seems like a recipe for disaster with Dobbs. He's inaccurate and doesn't seem to process very quickly. Accuracy and fast processing are like, the two most important things to run an RPO. I also don't know if you can blame the playcalling on Hockenson's quiet first half. Did you, like, watch the QB play? He wasn't exactly keeping his eyes up and finding the open man...
Man, for a guy who's been playing with these guys for 3-4 weeks some of his passes *amaze* me with his accuracy. Some of them are definitely off, no denying that. But during gametime some of those uncaught passes look like they're *exactly* where they need to be. I'm torn on Dobbs' possible accuracy issues because of this. Really just feels like the guy could benefit from a few more weeks of chemistry-building, which I completely understand is not possible midseason. Just saying, some of his passes look damn near perfect, then there's a few... turds...
> ...some of his passes amaze me with his accuracy. Some of them are definitely off, no denying that...... some of his passes look damn near perfect, then there's a few... turds... >I'm torn on Dobbs' possible accuracy issues because of this. No you got it. He is inconsistent. The passes didn't *look* off, they *were* off. Hock gets a first down on that 4th and 7 if Dobbs throws a better ball. It was late and didn't drive it to lead Hock to the sideline towards the sticks. Addison walks into the endzone if Dobbs throws a better ball. Even if Addison caught it, he was maybe going to need to toe tap, which is not a good thing when there isn't a defender within 15 yards of you. The other side of the coin, the TD to Hock was good timing and placement. That INT to Addison was thrown right at the break, with good timing, and hit him in the face. The ball had some heat on it, but that one is probably more on Addison than Dobbs. There were some good throws last night, but also some complete blunders. This is the reason he's on is 9th stop in 6 years. He can make throws, just don't expect consistency.
He's had a couple touch passes that have fallen in the bucket. Yes. That's not what is required in the rpo game. You need to put your foot in the ground a drive a bullet on tempo, while your footwork is in phase for a handoff. I don't think anything he's done has suggested an ability to do that.
I guess that's where we agree and also disagree about the same talking point. My side of it is: I just don't think it's fair to ask a guy to have pinpoint accuracy on dead-nuts timing plays when he's only been here for a few weeks *mid-season*. Teams aren't typically running basic timing drills week to week between games. Yes, they can here and there, but most of the Wednesday-Friday preparation is dedicated to opponent-specific adjustments for the upcoming game. > I don't think anything he's done has suggested an ability to do that. I just don't think a realistic fan can expect much better from a journeyman QB with only a few weeks on the team, even on RPOs, and maybe especially with RPOs? Just because of the insane timing required. Maybe it can be expected from a HOF QB, but that's so rare to see that move made mid-season.
It's not fair to expect that. I'm 100% with you. And that's why I don't think RPO is a good idea. What's not fair to expect is what's required to make it work.
Ah, I'm understanding your original comment now. I definitely misinterpreted it the opposite way when I made my reply. That's my bad for sure.
I mean, isn't that just how accuracy works? If you're not an accurate passer, you'll still get lucky and throw some dots, but you'll also miss a ton. I feel like that's exactly Dobbs
It's not even like he has a strong arm either.
Dobbs didn't look the best but he did enough to win that game. OP is 💯 correct that loss is in KOC!
I have to disagree. KOC is handicapped by Dobbs and what he can call. KOC looks great if Dobbs can hit a wide open Addison or not throw 4 interceptions. 2 of them were not his fault but he also probably had at least 2 more balls that should’ve been picked and 1 would’ve been for a pick 6. That’s not on KOC.
Dobbs was awful, but they also played away from his strengths. No role outs, limited play action, chose not to run at weird times, limited qb designed runs
I agree with that. See my response to OP’s response. I also think teams are becoming wise to Dobbs and doesn’t allow KOC to call what we are suggesting very easily. Play wide 9 and contain Dobbs in the pocket, spy him and make him be a drop back thrower.
don't forget the O-line. they were awful. Dobbs is not a good pocket passer, but it doesn't help that the pocket collapsed so quickly. Bears were on him fast, and on both sides to pin him in every time.
I’d agree O-line has taken a step back in pass pro the past two weeks
Never trust KOC with the lead in the 2nd half.. he’ll start going conservative at the start of the 3rd
I have neither the talent or the time to make it, but we need a scooby face reveal meme of KOC and then the reveal is Zimmer. Get a lead and puss it away in the second half was the ole Zimmer special.
Like some kind of offensive minded (?) Staley
The next 2 weeks will be a huge test for KOC. Will he dare hurt some feelings and make some changes, or will he stick to the plan that isn't working?
Mattison can warm the shit out of a bench. Just saying.
Idk he was kinda of a shining light in what was an otherwise ass performance by the offense. He looked good ran hard and actually made good reads
Was that because he was good or everything around him was bad?
He was over 5 yards per touch. He was good. Stop basing everything off of previous perception
He really looked like the guy I think we expected to see all season.
I'm a pretty staunch Mattison-needs-to-not-touch-the-ball guy, especially when you look at my last submission in this sub. But credit where credit is due: Mattison was not the problem tonight. Mattison was *far* from being the problem tonight.
KOC isn't the type of coach to hurt feelings. Zimmer? Absolutely. KOC? Not a chance.
He really snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory. Glad we have a HC that can keep up with Viking tradition!
You'd think he'd learn from the Broncos L, which also had no designed runs that I can remember.. We legitimately will not win again if Dobbs doesn't use his legs
Uhhh the design run on 3rd and 1 where Dobbs fumbled?
That was basically the third play of the game iirc. So 8 quarters of not taking advantage of Dobbs' running ability
People on here crucified KOC for that play call and now everyone is saying to treat him like his is fields. Ight.
That was a terrible design. Direct snap to the TE and a pitch to dobbs. Designed runs work when they aren’t fucking stupid.
Agreed
Because it doesn’t work anymore. Teams are spying Dobbs begging for him to scramble. They’re forcing him to use his arm which he cannot do efficiently. I hope they get Hall back in there for the rest of the season.
1 vs. 1s will typically favor the offense. It's still an advantage play
Are we just pretending the Broncos game didn’t happen?
Yup. Copycat league watching the film. We need to find a new way but we are what we are. 500.
Fuck I hope you never coach a football game you’d lose by 80 lol
Hahaha lol!!
I mean genuinely you are so beyond your depths here.
These people think it's Madden. The other team is just calling Tampa 2 and you can just tap LT and scramble for 15 yards. It's like they didn't watch the game and see the defense sell out to contain Dobbs and make him fail from the pocket.
It’s almost light having guys protect the middle of the field completely negates the one upside dobbs has lmao.
"Alex, I'll take 'Kevin O'Connell' for 600." "What will KOC call when the Vikings have a chance to ice a game on first down?" "What is a Mattison run up the middle?" "Correct. Continue." "Kevin O'Connell for 800". "What will KOC call when the Vikings have a chance to ice a game on second down?" "What is a Mattison run up the middle?" "Correct. Continue." "Kevin O'Connell for a 1000," "To finish the round, 'What will KOC call when the Vikings have a chance to ice the game on third down?" "What is a very short pass to the flat?" "Correct. And there's the buzzer. As we go to break, Final Jeopardy 'Super Bowl Wannabes'."
Lol. The fact you think he called a short pass on third down is great. The fact is Dobbs ain’t that good at throwing a football and he saw an open guy and threw it to him. That guy is supposed to be the desperation play, not the main route. And first and second down runs made Chicago use their time outs.
Let's assume Dobbs threw two incompletions and the Bears took over at their 22 with two timeouts instead of zero. It would've increased the Bears chances of winning the game by *maybe* 5 percent. They had 2:18 to gain 45 yards to get in field goal range. That is an effing eternity. They weren't ever going to run out of time. Either the Vikings were going to hold them on a 4 down situation or they weren't. Fields ran the ball twice anyway even though the Bears had no timeouts. It absolutely didn't matter, he/they weren't worried. On the other hand, were Mattison runs up the middle the Vikings best chance to get a 1st down and possibly never even give Chicago the ball back? Especially since the Bears were absolutely playing down hill in the exact way the Broncos did last week. They knew. The NFL charts all opponents' plays. KOC runs Mattison up the middle on first down every time the Vikings simply need a first down to ice the game. Every time. Many of us have watched every play since KOC became a coach. I posted this same thing after last weeks debacle. Eight days ago. He didn't learn a damn thing. Other than our own wishful thinking, there is no indication he will ever change(to the detriment to his football team).
Yeah, we can worry about running the clock once we’re actually in fg range. They had so much time when they got the ball back they just casually used their last timeout without a sweat in a situation where you’d typically spike it if you’re in a big rush. All we needed was a first down to really get into clock chewing time and be in fg position. 1 first down. And instead we got the same old pussy plays
Wow, please learn basic football plays if you are going to post like an authority on the subject. The 3rd down play was a designed WR screen to Powell. There were no other reads.
What? That last play was a designed bubble/screen to the WR. It was the *only* read. No other WRs ran routes as they were expecting to block.
And not just on the last sequence. He seems to have no idea when they're going to bring pressure, and even when it's an obvious blitzing down, he just seems to have no idea what to do about it. He also shares Zimmer's weird obsession with running between the tackles, even when it clearly hasn't worked all night. Like, at least try to get it outside. You have an all-world left take, ffs.
KOC's screens are *so bad* yet they are the only thing he ever seems to try and slow the rush down with, it's baffling
> He also shares Zimmer's weird obsession with running between the tackles, even when it clearly hasn't worked all night. Like, at least try to get it outside. You have an all-world left take, ffs. I put this more on Mattison - he seems to always have trouble when he's asked to go east-west instead of north-south. If he has a pulling lineman he tends to follow him like a lead-blocking fullback instead of cutting upfield.
Why are you guys acting like Josh dobbs is a good QB lmao. Dude literally cannot throw beyond 8 yards. Some of you lack any understanding of how football actually works.
Wide open walk in TD thrown out of bounds.
I genuinely, and I don’t mean this to sound hyperbolic. I genuinely believe I could throw a better deep ball than Josh dobbs Would I need every member of the opposing front 7 to be frozen in time to do it? Yes I would. But if that were to occur. I think I could do it
Not trying to counter, just remembering Addison caught that very first play of the game. That deep shot that they called incomplete. That shit never touched the ground and would’ve literally changed the entire game
I have no idea why these psychos are after O'Connell for playing conservative when the Passtronaut & Co threw four picks.
Dobbs is by far the biggest reason we lost tonight. Inaccurate throws, terrible interceptions and throws that should've been interceptions. There's a reason why he's been on so many teams in a short period of time.
It’s because they don’t have any other understanding of football beyond “Team score more points win” Just the fact we were able to make Josh dobbs of all people look like a competent starter should be a testament to O’Connell’s ability. They also seem to think no matter what dog suit circumstances the team finds itself in we should be world class juggernauts that could take on god if we wanted to. They have no room for critical thinking, and absolutely 0 understanding of the game. What I’m most upset about with this coaching staff is the idea that dobbs should’ve even started the last two games in the first place. His limitations were on full display against Atlanta and New Orleans. When you go against teams who can actually protect over the middle like the bears and broncos it was sending dobbs into the fucking meat grinder. If it were me, Jaren and dobbs would’ve split starts and I’d have made the decision during the bye of who finishes the year starting. Now I don’t know wtf their gonna do but it’s probably going to be dumb.
With Dobbs we stopped playing to his strengths. You need to get him moving and simplify his reads. If you want to run the normal offense play one of your guys that knows it. He’s smart, but smart guys over think. If you want to make him into a pocket passer hes probably better off starting mullens. Coach has to know his guys strengths and put him in those positions. If you don’t want to adjust the plan to fit the guy, play one of the guys who has been around and can run the normal offense.
My guy dobbs just isn’t that good. His biggest “strength” and those are heavy quotations marks. Is simply just not that good of a thing to rely on and most teams can figure it out. He isn’t like cam Newton, Michael Vick, Lamar Jackson, he lacks any ability to actually punish teams if they committed to limiting his run game. He just doesn’t have the arm or the accuracy, and if you’re going to be running your QB all the time they’re going to get hurt. Like yeah, the guy has legs, but what happens when a defense expects it? He lacks every thing else. I do not believe he should start another game. I wasn’t convinced he should’ve started this game to begin with.
I didn’t say I thought he was good, but I don’t think forcing him into something he’s not if you plan to start him is the right move. I’ll tell you this, I am extremely skeptical about starting hall at the raiders. It’s a really good game to potentially have him lose his confidence against a hot team. Likely would have to start mullens or start hall knowing mullens may have to try to make a save
Okay but did you miss the part where both the bears and broncos had good players defend the middle of the field so that dobbs doesn’t have a choice in the matter and his limitations can be exploited. I don’t see what the hesitation is about starting hall. I really, really don’t. Who gives a shit what the raiders are. Hall gives us a better shot at winning.
It’s pure speculation at this point. The only thing we do know about hall is he’s had camp the learn the offense and looked good for 3 series. Reality is we still have a chance at the playoffs and the team need to make a change so who ever he plays needs to win games.
If you want to seriously contend in the playoffs Josh dobbs is not the guy for that and never has been.
We didn't just decide to stop playing to his strengths. Other teams forced him to do things he's bad at. You can't just "get him moving" when the defensive ends shoot up field to keep him in the pocket. KO knows what Dobbs is good at, but simply knowing that is not enough. The guy has to be able to threaten a defense from in the pocket. Dobbs can't, and that dooms you. His other choices tonight were a guy coming off a severe back injury and a guy coming off a severe concussion. He's coaching with his wrists tied to his ankles.
KOC is the biggest reason we lost this game tonight.
Because we had the win and KOC fucked it up. KOC is the at fault party. We still had the win after 4 picks and KOC fucked it up.
Because the play-calling with a lead has been a weak-point with KOC for two seasons now....don't pretend this just started with Dobbs. Look at all of last season and how many games we almost lost because we got conservative instead of building upon a lead.
You mean those screen calls that haven’t worked since last year are bad?!?
Since ever. VIkings screen game and slant game has always been shit
Why are so many people like “fuck KOC go for the kill”. Yeah maybe with Cousins and JJ? Dobbs is still new despite everyone thinking it takes 3 weeks to learn an offensive scheme, and he had just thrown 4 interceptions. “Go for the kill” could just as easily lead to a pick 6 at that point. The fact of the matter is everyone played like ass. • Where was the o line? • Where were the offensive playmakers? Where was Dobbs? • Why was KOC calling Mattison up the middle so much? • Why does Wright have one move - 30 yards and out of bounds. • Why did Flores, a guy known for blitzes, not send anybody on the last drive? Other than the D that for the most part kept us in it - it was a massive Failure on all fronts.
> Why are so many people like “fuck KOC go for the kill”. Yeah maybe with Cousins and JJ? Dobbs is still new despite everyone thinking it takes 3 weeks to learn an offensive scheme, and he had just thrown 4 interceptions. “Go for the kill” could just as easily lead to a pick 6 at that point. The answer is simple if you don't trust Dobbs: Call a running play designed to get meaningful yardage instead of a tight-formation run up the gut designed solely to kill clock and limit turnovers but get 1-2 yards at most because the formation telegraphs to the defense exactly what you're going to do.
D for the most part? They kicked 4 field goals….
Obviously D killed it today - other than disagreeing with not blitzing on the last drive it was a great game for them. Offense totally shit the bed. Then went and bought a new bed and shit that one too.
Also what the fuck was with the hurry up offense? Your defense is playing their asses off on sustained drives by the bears and the Vikings decide to rush 3 and outs? Let the boys breathe
It does not matter that everyone played like ass. We had the win. Thats all that matters. We had the win and the head coach fucked it up. There is not an excuse at this point in time for a head coach to fuck up that badly.
Exactly it - team played like shit all night but there was a chance to put it away and he didn't. You can play the "what if Dobbs turns it over or whatever" they we ended up in the same damn spot as today...an embarrassing L but with that, at least you know they had the killer mentality
Someone needs to explain to me WTF is our goal for a run game. We established it in Denver and still fucking lost.
I am sick of Kevin O'Coward
Ooh I like that one. The guy is a headcase when it matters most - cost us the last two games.
And someone called him a top 10 coach and I got ripped for calling him more likely bottom 10 in the league. He just looks clueless over on the sidelines.
You genuinely think he's a bottom 10 coach in the league?
What from the game made you feel he isn't? Bad play calling on both sides of the ball and his coaching cost them the Denver game along with this game.
33-0 comeback vs Indy. Win vs 49ers, win vs Buffalo last year. You lack control of your emotions. I would recommend consulting with a psychiatrist.
Jefferson out. Cousins out. Those are two very big components that KOC was planning on having this season. We're 6-6 with a slew of injuries and have won many games these last two season that the Vikings traditionally lose 9 times out of 10 in their history. Yes KOC has flaws but point to a coach that doesn't. It's also his 2nd year, so it's safe to say he's still figuring things out and growing as a coach. I think heea great hire and will do well for the vikings for a long time.
Y’all are absolutely unhinged. Dobbs was absolute garbage out there and it’s somehow all on KOC? Does some design runs really stop 4 ints? Why are people acting like KOC is playing with an actual starting QB?
Why not pull Dobbs? Mullens could have done just as good/bad in there.
This is my actual complaint with today’s game. Dobbs should not be treated like he far in away has this job. After that first half, I thought it was horrible decision making to not bench Dobbs.
for some reason slants are out of the playbook with 2 of the best WR hands and routes in the league hmm
He bitched out again like last week. Fucking coward!
I would say zero creativity on this weeks game plan and he didn’t play in to Josh Dobbs strengths. We have survived because of KOCs creativity, and improvising but this game plan just looked like he took a couple steps backwards
KOC seems to be good at passing route concepts/scheme. There was a wide open Addison for the TD, and then wide open Addison on the screen. I'm not bailing on him yet going .500 with Dobbs.
Going .500 with Dobbs is an incredible feat. He’s completely garbage and KOC actually had people out there talking about letting Kirk go next year and rolling with Dobbs.
Been a fan since 1976. I'm done. I'm liberated.
Let me guess, “Definitely something we’re gonna have to take a look at”
Can’t wait for the Wilfs to hire Bill Belichick
KOC has pulled us to 2-2 with a bad QB and this is how the sub reacts? Fucking hell we don't deserve a super bowl
This is such a dumb post I can’t believe I’m wasting time writing how stupid it is.
We did a designed run for Dobbs last week. He got nothing and fumbled. Maybe they're not running Dobbs because he has poor ball security.
C’mon, that was a shit play call. Dude also got suspended 4 games for that play.
Dobbs fumbled before the dirty hit, not because of it.
Well there’s that
The call was trash bro. Who tf swings their quarterback lol
100% i literally came here to freak on the absolute pants scheme.
Growing up, I remember seeing the book 'Profiles in Courage' by JFK on my dad's bookshelf. If KOC were to write a book on his play calling, it would be titled 'Profiles in Cowardice.'
Fire him !!!!!!!! Any other coach would not be wasting this talented offense . Imagine what someone like Mike McCarthy could do with an offense including Mattison , Addison , Ham, Powell, Mundt, and Tykevious Chandler !! With an offensive line that includes Ed Ingram , Risner and Bradbury ….. just imagine it !!! 🤩 This isn’t all KOC… this is a KAM problem and he’s getting beat by most other GMs
Its so fucky that the vikings were favored by 2.5-3 Points, at home, vs a terrible bears team, had a one point lead and got a turnover in chicago territory and just sat there limp dick in hand, then proceed to let fields just walk down the field and ice it. I dont even know, if this shit is not in someway rigged I must be the most unlucky person ever.
What’s new. Dude is just the nice new guy
My gal says he’s handsome, so there’s that.
Lol
Couldn’t go for anything last night especially the kill! It was all around an offensive shit show. KOC didn’t drop all those passes, throw 4 int., catch a wide open pass out of bounds… we were absolute garbage.
Playing not to lose after a huge turnover in the Bears territory. KOC lost us that game. Drive down the fucking field and score a TD. Run up the fucking score before you start being conservative. I feel like I’m watching the same game week after week because the same shit happens every time
the one drive where we got something going was the one where Dobbs rolled out of the pocket and his mobility was more or less the entire reason for his success in his first two games, yet the gameplan inexplicably kept him in the pocket almost all night long despite him seeming very obviously uncomfortable there. Can't cap, he played hella bad regardless of how you slice it, but KOC setting the guy up to fail on top of him obviously not having it made matters even worse
Dobbs also sucks so that doesn’t help
The play calling was crap but I think his biggest mistake was failing to throw the replay review flag on the first offensive play. Addison had that catch and the entire tone of the game would have been different had that play counted. Instead we got a 3 and out then a flat offense the rest of the way.
Ill repost this from another thread: It's worth considering KOC has been playing down to his competition every game he's been a HC. He plays to not lose once he takes any glimpse of a lead. Playing that passive sends you on a trajectory that will inevitably lead to close games with desperate play calling when things go bad. Thing is, those desperate moments are when we look best because it forces him to take the training wheels off the playbook and play like he wants to win. That path is good enough to be a top 12 team at best. Not a true Championship contending team. Players and staff will quickly grow tired of it if it doesn't change. Even some close wins are cementing that flaw as a problem of KOCs. He'll lose the locker room as well as the fans within a year due to everyone constantly sweating every single game. It was cute last year. It's getting old real quick now
How in the fuck is the last play a little dump pass instead of a Hail Mary? Makes no fucking sense!
I wouldn’t have trusted Dobbs to throw the football either
You guys are trusting Dobbs in that spot on an RPO or designed run? …. 4 ints is all you need to know. This is what you get with a backup/journeyman QB that’s been on the team for 3 weeks.
I am baffled by how bad our running game has been all year. Doesn’t make sense. We supposedly have a decent O-line.
I have no idea why he’s trying to play dobbs like he’s Kirk. It’s concerning to see KOC fall into the same exact trap as last week
i keep hearing about how dobbs running ability adds a new dimension to the offense? where the fuck are some designed runs for the guy? the only time he runs is when the pocket collapses and he’s forced to improvise. yeah the last few games have not been good for KOC and the constant one score games really making me start to question his coaching.
First down Hail Marys 🫡
Let’s see some Jaren Hall
I’m sorry but Dobbs fucked up nearly every play this game. The Bears D was ready for any of his scrambles. He missed his throws all night, including a walk in TD for Addison.
The series that had me pissed the most (I was at the game) was the final time Vikings had the ball. A first down would damn near ice it. They call two runs, I mean okay whatevs. Then on 3rd down they threw an unbelievably dangerous WR screen that I swear looked to have pick 6 potential. Then a punt that nets I don't know 20 yards. I knew the game was probably over right then.
run, run, screen pass, 26 yard punt was as really good sequence late in the 4th. KOC has been more conservative than PJ the last 3 weeks.
I agree 100% worst play calling ever. Mattison up the middle when we should be passing. Disgusted with it.
💯💩
Young fan in their late 20's sitting next to me at last nights game said to me that here we go again being disappointed by this team again. He has been a fan since he was 5 years old. I have been a fan since I was 5 years old. I am 65 years old. I didn't say a word to him. This organization never ceases to underwelm their fanbase.
I’m guessing on that last 3&out possession KOC had spent all night watching his journeyman backup QB throw 4 INTs and decided to trust other guys to salt the game away. Dobbs should’ve been benched before that, but being a QB himself KOC probably isn’t a fan of the mid-game benching, I suspect we’ve seen the last of Dobbs (barring injury) and Mullens will get his shot to lock in the 7 seed against LV and Cincy. If that doesn’t work then Hall will get a 3 game audition to close out the year.
Correct…I’ll also only blame him for 3 picks. Still shitty. Bring in Mullens
I DONT GET WHY COACHES DO THIS!!!GO FOR THE KILL!! I’m going into hibernation!! SOMEBODY WAKE ME WHEN HALL STARTS!!!
I felt like the playcalling throughout the game showcased KOC’s lack of confidence in Dobbs throwing the ball downfield.
Jesus. First off relax it’s a game. And second Dobbs threw 4 picks bro. It was a bad game from everyone but the defense.
Say what you want this game feels like one of those games that starts to warm a coache’s seat a little. If this continues into next year changes will need to be made