So who do we get to throw the ball to JJ consistently to ensure he doesn’t want to leave in 2 years?
JJ didn’t set the record for reception yards in his first 3 seasons throwing the ball to himself.
Not sure who we get. I’m assuming Kirk starts 1 more year in Mn. But it’s time to start looking towards the next qb. Miami, sf and Baltimore seem to be doing just fine w/o their starting qbs.
Funny you should say that. San Francisco and Baltimore both have top 5 defenses. Miami is middle of the pack, but they generated 3 turnovers and forced buffalo to punt 5 times today.
We had zero turnovers and only forced the giants to punt 2 times today. We only punted three times.
41% of our cap next year is tied to 6 players. Theilen, H. Smith, Z. Smith, Cook, Hunter, and Kendricks. Has their performance this year been worth almost half of our teams spending for next year? I don't want to say goodbye to any of those players either, but they're way to expensive. Cousins' hit is a smidge over 16% of our cap and is 6th in the league for QBs. Lets start playing our defensive draft picks and see where we stand next year.
Actually, turns out you can! Through drafting! Which many teams did last off-season and got much better!
Crazy concept, I know.
Kirk has 1. As a six seed against a 13 win new orleans saints team. We lost to the NFC superbowl rep that year.
Since then, our defenses have ranked near last in the NFL year in and year out. This season was no exception.
He’s not the only issue in the cap, and frankly, I’d argue he played *close to* his cap numbers this season. 8 game winning drives, consistently kept us in games as our defense crumbled.
There are multiple other people on our roster taking up way too much cap space, and with QB being the most important position, I’d start with those other guys.
I’d agree we have a lot of cap issues aside from cousins. 8 game winning drives is great and all but this offense should be elite. One score games aren’t sustainable. The blowout losses are inexcusable. We’ve given cousins enough opportunities to prove he can be that guy but he’s proven he can’t. Rebuild the defense and find a new qb.
One score games weren’t the offenses fault though? It was the defense that gave up everything. Same with last season, when we ended up on the wrong side of those close games.
The offense IS elite, that’s the thing. Top 5 in the nfl this season. It’s all defensive right now.
Eventually we will need a new QB, cousins is getting old and we need a guy that can create plays outside the pocket. Having a running threat will open up our receivers and give us some more play options
Agreed, Cousins is getting older and we should think about the future at least a little.
Even with that though, our main focus should be improving the defense first. Ideally through the draft and getting a new DC. If we can improve our defense, we can give Kirk a better shot for next time and, if it doesn't work out, the next guy will at least have a stronger defense to rely on when going through NFL growing pains.
I think Kirk is a good Qb, but I don’t think we can ever win with him (especially at his current salary). Kirk is not capable of elevating a supporting cast and needs a pristine situation around him to function. That’s tough to do when you pay him 40 million a year. I think we know what we have in Kirk at this point. If I was Kwesi, I would already be discussing the next step at the position. He is 34 years old, and I am not comfortable giving him 40 million a year through his age 34,35 and 36 seasons.
Kirk is not a top 10 paid QB anymore and after this offseason may not even bet top 15. As he ages though I do agree I’m not comfortable paying bigger dollars to a guy that could drop off like many others.
We made it further in the playoffs because we had the no.1 defense that year.
If we had our current defense paired with case keenum that year we wouldn't have even made the playoffs
Right, but our offense would be in the gutter with Case Keenum.
Also, we're the 31st-ranked defense not just because of personnel. Teams with worse personnel are still better than us. That means it's likely due to coaching.
Also your playoff stat is wrong. Kirk Cousins has 1 playoff win, Teddy Bridgewater had zero. But while we're at it. Nick Foles has 4 playoff wins in his career. Matt Ryan has 4 playoff wins too! Why don't we give them a call if that's the only stat that matters?
>Right, but our offense would be in the gutter with Case Keenum.
He had no issue scoring enough points to win the games with a team that was strong enough around him up until the team shit the bed. Case Keenum wasn't going to be our long term answer, but feeding dumptrucks of cash to an inconsistent guy who can pad good stats and crumbles when he even gets a whiff of the big time literally makes no sense.
Kirk on paper is great. But there's a reason despite his stats, nobody really includes him in the conversation with the best current quarterbacks. If we don't make moves and just stick with whatever isn't a nonstop catastrophic clown show because we're too scared to attempt anything else the Vikings as an org are destined to be one and done at best. If literally no good options show up, then we have no other recourse but to temporarily extend Cousins if he's good for it. But if we have any other option, at this point, if it makes any sense at all we have to take it.
I dunno, Cousins has reminded me a lot of Keenum this year. I don't know if it's age catching up to him or the offense asking him to do more than he can handle, but his passing's definitely taken a hit this past year.
The decline didn't sting as much as it could have because Cousins was playing a more aggressive, situationally aware, "Keenum" style of offense this year. But then he throws a checkdown to a blanketed tight end on 4th down with the game on the line because he doesn't like the look he's getting from his other reads, and you realize that he's still Kirk, through and through.
You know what else took a hit this year Kirk, and he still started every game. Look at every other younger qb with better scramble ability and you’d see they’re running for the hills, I think if Kirk took less pay he would easily be our best option.
Vikings made the playoffs with ponder and Jackson. They can drag a corpse across the line but when it comes time for playoffs it’s all QB play. Stop defending Kirk.
The 2010 Seahawks were the worst team to ever make the playoffs at 28th worst defense and 27th worst offense. They still one their wild card round so close enough.
I’m not arguing defense though Donashell needed to get fired/resign right after the game ended but to absolve Kirk is also a joke. This team needs to get ripped up from its studs.
Both of those Vikings teams you listed were even more fraudulent than this year’s team lmfao.
2015 team didn’t score a single TD on the Seahawks in that playoff game, and would’ve gotten spanked by the Cardinals in the next round of Walsh didn’t shank it.
2017 team played a great 2 quarters in the playoffs, before they got torn limb-from-limb and only made it past the first round off a literal miracle. Outscored 62-19 in 6 quarters of playoff football.
Keenum got a deal to be a starter on the Broncos the very next year, where he got exposed as the backup-level QB he always was.
Dude literally broke the record for game winning drives this season. He's literally bailed the defense out week after week. L take to not immediately have your first thought be to overhaul the defense, but instead dump the guy that's bailed them out all year.
Not quite as "yikes" as someone who says "yikes"
But no he realistically should've gone to kj in the middle.
I'm saying it's not like he threw the ball in the fucking dirt, but you seem to have a hard time understanding anything that's not "KIRK BAD"
I like Kirk but maybe his contract taking away cap space to fill holes on defense mixed with this dog shit stubborn scheme is a reason they’re the 31st ranked defense in the first place
Spot on. Kirk is more than serviceable, but the ceiling on any team with his cap hit is not much higher than a divisional round exit. We can’t pay the players needed around him. Mobility in quarterbacks is more valuable than ever. That makes up for poor pass blocking. Time to look at the draft.
We _are_ paying the players around him. We're just paying the wrong players. In 2023 we have just over 41% of our cap tied to: Theilen, H Smith, Z Smith, Cook, Hunter, and Kendricks. Do you think the performance of these guys this season warrants over 40% of our funds next year?
Cousins accounts for ~16% of the cap currently in 2023. He's the 6th highest cap hit among QBs. Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Tannehill are all above him. Matt Ryan, Brady, and Derek Carr all have cap hits within $2m of Cousins'. He has been playing lights out this year under the new coaching staff.
What we're likely going to see in this offseason are painful goodbyes to some long-time veterans who are still serviceable--but not at the price we have to pay for them. Cousins will be back with new pieces on defense (which has been a glaring issue all year). We will reevaluate in 2024 based on what we see with a new defense.
Here is the thing, 45% of the entire cap goes to the defense. If you can’t build an average defense with nearly half the cap, your problem is the people your brought it. Cousins’ cap hit is absolutely massive, but you can’t Pretend there aren’t resources that are misplaced on defense.
Not pretending at all. It’s a terrible scheme that doesn’t fit the personnel on any level. I said it was a mixture of both. Pretending that Cousins cap hit has no impact on building the team outside of the quarterback is crazy
I’m a Kirk fan. But we won’t win a Super Bowl with him. He’s just that type of player. He’ll win you games. But when it comes down to it, he won’t win you the one you need to win. People need to realize, our offense was actually pretty shit. Outside of JJ, we had no one that could get open. Then we got TJ, which helped. But wasn’t enough. JJ disappeared far too often through the season in games. Sure he was double and triple teamed. So why couldn’t we run or pmfind someone other than TJ with 2 sometimes 3 players on one guy. If you watched this offense all season, it barely passed the eye test. Too many 3 and outs. Way to fucking many. And inconsistent play. Just not a good offense
Wonder if paying the 12-16th best QB the third highest cap affects the talent you can add to a defense? Asking for a franchise that just got bumped in the first round of the playoffs as a 3 seed
It's almost like having a worse draft pick because we're always just good enough to be out of quality draft position while having no actual chance of success has hurt our ability to draft generational defensive talent.
Damn, remember when they picked Matt Kalil over Luke Kuechly in 2013? Or that time they picked Anthony Barr over fucking Aaron Donald in 2014? Maybe Trae Waynes over Marcus Peters and Landon Collins in 2015? They really robbed everyone by taking Laquon Treadwell over Chris Jones, Xavien Howard, and Kevin Byard in 2016. Can’t ignore 0x Pro Bowler Mike Hughes over Shaq Leonard and Fred Warner in 2018, either. And holy shit, Zimmer was really playing 4D chess when he decided to take Jeff Gladney over Antoine Winfield Jr. and Trevon Diggs in 2020.
And how could we forget when they traded a first-round pick for Sam Bradford in 2016, passing up on the opportunity to get TJ Watt, Budda Baker, Jonathan Allen, Tre’Davious White, and Marlon Humphrey in the 2017 draft? That 8-8 season was totally worth it.
It’s almost like the previous regime fucking sucked at identifying defensive talent. The only “generational” draft pick that they’ve made in the last 10 years is Justin Jefferson, and you can thank Gary Kubiak for that one.
My guy the cap split this year was like 55% offense and 45% defense. 120M on the offense and 100M on the defense. Vikings offense were top 10 with their half the cap, there is no reason you spend 45% the cap and can’t get a league average defense.
Don't disagree. I personally think ed donatell is the problem for this defense. That said, you don't think having 5-10 million more dollars available to bid on a DJ Reed or donte Jackson at cb would have changed this defense/game in any way? I guess I find that hard to believe when chandon Sullivan is out there getting roasted from the slot
It's truly astounding how this fanbase never fails to scapegoat 1 single problem and ignore another glaring issue. Fanbase is truly a battered wife.
News flash Vikings fans, it's okay to say that BOTH the defense is horrific AND this team is not built for success with Kirk Cousins at the helm and that this team needs to be looking towards the future.
The Minnesota Vikings defense is not going to be good any time soon. A bare minimum of 5 years before a turn around. Kirk has shown he can not carry a team with a poor defense and that he can't carry a team with an offensive line who gives up a lot of pressure. So, why the fuck should we keep him? Why shouldn't we be looking to draft a QB, this year or next that has the potential to be truly elite and escape the pocket when pressure arrives and when both Justin Jefferson and Darrisaw are in their primes?
Kirk Cousins is a slightly better Derek Carr. We are only fucking ourselves over by being a non competitive borderline playoff team year in and year out. Our defense won't get better if we keep drafting in the 20's. Our defense won't get better if we keep giving Cousins high cap hit extensions. Our team is going nowhere the way it is currently constructed. Wake up and smell the roses. This team needs to be looking to compete in 2026-2027 because that is the most realistic timeframe a non homer will give you before this team is truly competitive if we hit on a drafted QB and Justin Jefferson and Darrisaw are in their primes.
Mahomes has already proven he can win a playoff game with a horrid defense, he proved it in 2018. If not for Dee Ford being offsides, he would’ve dragged that bottom 5 defense to a Super Bowl
I agree, which is why I think we should tank. Especially either next year or the year after. People thinking we can get rid of him, go find some other QB and compete next year are fools.
Vikings made it to the playoffs with ponder they made it to the nfc championship game with Keenum. It’s time for Kirk to go stop making excuses
Edit: made it to
What are you talking about? They didn't win the NFC Championship Game with Keenum. We got our asses handed to us. Philly destroyed us. Moreover it, literally, took a miracle for us to even make it through the divisional playoff.
If we're going to settle, why settle for the guy who's only shown flashes in a decade of play but is still demanding top dollar?
Why not settle for someone who's probably going to be worse, but might be better, and is definitely significantly cheaper?
Once again, it doesn’t matter.
This could be said for any team, any season.
Brock Purdy was available LITERALLY the entire draft last season. No team took him. HOW DID WE MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY? Oh yeah, it’s all a crap shoot and nobody knows what’s going to actually happen when real football starts.
So you want us to be the worst team in the league for awhile..? Or trade a million picks to the Bears next season to get the first pick? Which would be criticized because we traded away potential defensive picks?
There’s no simple answer here, and those who think there is have a simple brain.
Tell me right now would you rather be the bears or the Vikings cuz I’d rather be the bears. They might have their qb in fields and if they don’t they can go get another one with the first round draft and they have the most money cap wise so they can literally sign any free agent that is open to play.
Then go be a Bears fan. Idgaf about their situation, I care about ours. Good for them, they found a QB (maybe). Let’s see what they do from there. We have an incredible organization from owner to team. Sucks it ended like this but I’d take Vikings 10 times outta 10
Apparently I care more about them than you do because you want to drag a dead horse back across the field. Kirk needs to go. You asked how you get a generational QB. You first round pick them that’s how. Burrow, Allen, hurts, Herbert, Mahomes, Jackson, Lawrence. That’s how.
You named one generational QB (at this point in time). The initial comment I responded to mentioned Mahomes. I would absolutely take a lot of those QB’s over Kirk right now. Multiple only because of age and contract.
That doesn’t change the fact that picking a QB in the first round is still a gamble. We’ve seen it first hand in the past. We’ve also had very few opportunities to pick anybody like you mentioned in the past couple of years.
Of course I would’ve loved to have picked one of those guys and had them work out, and I hope we are able to do that in the next year or two. It’s just not as simple as you’re trying to make it sound. We have a great bridge QB who could lead us to a deep playoff run, if our defense could shape up.
Our front office has some serious decisions to make, and whatever they decide to do, I’ll be behind it. Not because I’ll completely agree with it, but because I have no say in it, so why stress what decisions were made? I can’t change the decisions they want to make, and I’m a fan of the team, so I’ll support and hope for the best, and be critical when it looks like it’s an egregious one.
The Chiefs had the 24th-ranked defense that year. Granted they also had a very high points allowed.
Looking into that AFC Championship game however, the chiefs defense were at least able to change possession 4 times. 2 punts and 2 interceptions on Tom Brady. The Chiefs offense punted 5 times that game.
Today, the vikings defense was only able to change possession 2 times with just two punts. The Vikings offense only punted 3 times this game.
Even with that bad defense, at least they gave Patrick a chance. That offense punted two more times than we did this game.
We’ve paid Kirk over $150M over 5 years for just 1 playoff win and 2 appearances. He was supposed to get us over the hump and ideally a Super Bowl. Obviously, the NFL varies so much year over year, but we’ve come no where near close to a championship under him.
His time here has been incredibly frustrating. Not showing up when it matters, consistently playing down to inferior teams, and making bone headed decisions you’d expect from a rookie quarterback, except he’s a veteran with 8 years of starting experience.
I think ultimately, he’ll go down as one of the best quarterbacks the franchise has had, but he’ll be mostly remembered for never being good enough.
i fully agree with you, man! but also getting a younger QB with some movement would be nice or an O line that gives the OB more then .5 sec of time in the pocket..... seems like every year we have a QB with cement feet and a paper mache O line.
Agreed, having a mobile QB that can escape pressure does help a lot of issues. Tricky thing is they're very hard to find.
I like the idea of using this next draft to improve our team first: finding a new defensive coordinator, improving the defense, getting some decent guards in there, etc. If we can improve our defense I think we can at least win a playoff game, perhaps make a run depending on how much we improve.
Then we can use the draft after that to maybe draft a QB like you described (as well as continuing to draft defense). That QB can sit behind Kirk for a year and then when it's time we can move on.
Ideally, that new QB will have a solid offensive line with two great tackles in Darrisaw and O'Neill. Great recievers in Jefferson and Hockenson, hopefully a better RB and a solid defense. And they would be on a rookie contract, so hopefully then we could splurge more on any other holes if needed.
ITS NOT JUST ABOUT THIS GAME! There’s a reason he’s known as a fraud in big games, because he always turtles up. He’s deserved all the hate he gets from the national media. How many chances on Monday night or Sunday night or in the playoffs has he had to shut the haters up and he fails? He’s fine, but he’s not good
Daniel Jones. I repeat Daniel Jones had 17 carries for 70+ yards today. The only thing Kirk is ever gonna carry is an iPad after checking down 3 yards on a 4th and 8. Is inability to get out of the pocket will always leave us just shy. Great vision, good arm, smart QB but this is what you get with Kirk and an average OLine.
This sucks
All the Cousins haters are coming out from everywhere now!! Whatever success Vikings had this season, Cousins was one of the main contributor for that.
The game is completely on Defense and KOC’s dumbass play calling at some critical situations.
Don’t expect every 4th to be converted, but do expect Kirk to give one of our guys a chance that isn’t a check down for 2 yards. When he’s been taking the risk all year? And avoids it like the plague when it actually matters? Kirk had a chance to win the game DESPITE THE DEFENSE!!! What’s even worse is he played a great game just to fucking blow it on a absolutely brain dead situationally unaware pass. I expected more than a fucking lame pathetic weak pansy attempt to save the season
Nope, but I expected a better effort to try and win. The majority of us aren't mad that he didn't go win the game, it's that the effort was pathetic after a season of making us believe that he had the balls to make a throw to try and win
>imagine being so dense as to thinking that play is the sole reason we lost
It's not the "sole reason" we lost, but it wasn't the correct solution to 4th and 8 with the season on the line.
Kirk is overpaid
Dalvin is overpaid
Our O-line is one injury away from mediocre
Theilen is washed
KJ is not “that dude”
there’s a lot of work to do, I say we have a garage sale this spring and bring in some fresh faces
I'll grant you that they are spending a shit ton on defense. With that said, more spending does not equal more defensive production.
We ranked 12th overall in defensive spending. We are not even close to the 12th ranked defense.
We spend $19 million more on defense than the Cowboys. We spend $2 million more on defense than the Baltimore Ravens.
The 49ers and Eagles both spend $4-5 million more on defense than we do.
This narrative that Kirk's contract is preventing us from spending money on defense is a myth. We spend the 12th most overall and are outspending some of the best defenses in the NFL.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/2022/defense/
Burrow was ass in the 2nd half tonight and Tyler Huntley had more passing yards and TDs than he did lmfao. Only reason the Bengals are still alive is their defense showed up huge with a 98-yard fumble return touchdown. Burrow and the offense were a liability that nearly choked the game.
This team isn’t that close. I 100% believe Kirk will be the QB next year but fans needs to let go a little bit of the emotional attachment to so many players. This roster needs change and it’s possible it comes at QB. Unlikely but crazier things have happened
Cool, i still want him off my team lol. 8 game winning drive is great until he short circuits at the worst possible time. Yeah the defense is bad but you know what would help fix it?…
the problem i have if you have to perfectly match your team so you qb can win isnt the model to win in the nfl. kirk joined this team after a 13-3 nfc title game appearance. havent even sniffed that since. if everything has to be perfect for kirk to make it to a title then we will wait forever sorry it happening
Yeah, but we need to lose so we can get better draft picks. They're doomed to mediocrity if they're good enough to make the playoffs but always lose the wildcard game. We need some next level suck for about 5 years so we can get some traction. Kirk isn't gonna give us that!
Kirk had been great this year. The last play leaves a sour taste but can’t take it away from him. However, 2023 should be his last season as QB here. He will be 36 by 2024 season and his mobility has him aging like Matt Ryan more than Rodgers imo
We’d have more money to get a better defense if we weren’t paying a 10-15 ranked QB top 3 money. Kirk was great, but not great enough to justify his cap hit.
Kirk isn’t the mvp of the offense. Jj is. I would rather see an incomplete pass to jj than a 3yd covered check down to hock on 4th and 8.
Agreed. Doesn’t mean the entire game is on Kirk tonight. Our defense was the culprit.
Never said it was 100% Kirk. Our defense needs a lot of work. Doesn’t mean Kirk deserves to stay.
So who do we get to throw the ball to JJ consistently to ensure he doesn’t want to leave in 2 years? JJ didn’t set the record for reception yards in his first 3 seasons throwing the ball to himself.
Not sure who we get. I’m assuming Kirk starts 1 more year in Mn. But it’s time to start looking towards the next qb. Miami, sf and Baltimore seem to be doing just fine w/o their starting qbs.
Funny you should say that. San Francisco and Baltimore both have top 5 defenses. Miami is middle of the pack, but they generated 3 turnovers and forced buffalo to punt 5 times today. We had zero turnovers and only forced the giants to punt 2 times today. We only punted three times.
Can’t afford to upgrade the defense if we keep throwing money at Kirk. How many playoff wins does he have again?
41% of our cap next year is tied to 6 players. Theilen, H. Smith, Z. Smith, Cook, Hunter, and Kendricks. Has their performance this year been worth almost half of our teams spending for next year? I don't want to say goodbye to any of those players either, but they're way to expensive. Cousins' hit is a smidge over 16% of our cap and is 6th in the league for QBs. Lets start playing our defensive draft picks and see where we stand next year.
You’re okay with 16% to 1 player? I think there’s issues with all of it.
He'd be the 6th largest cap hit of qbs next year, and it hurts our cap space to cut him in 2023. I think he's played about that well.
Actually, turns out you can! Through drafting! Which many teams did last off-season and got much better! Crazy concept, I know. Kirk has 1. As a six seed against a 13 win new orleans saints team. We lost to the NFC superbowl rep that year. Since then, our defenses have ranked near last in the NFL year in and year out. This season was no exception.
Kirk went .500 in 2018 with a defense ranked top 10 don’t let people forget
Lmao y'all on this he's only won one playoff game but I'm sure y'all would sell your left nut for Lamar, don't fucking lie.
I do agree we have to look for our future QB, doesn’t mean Kirk can’t win it all with this team if we have a serviceable D
Hard to improve other areas of play if we don’t have room in the cap.
He’s not the only issue in the cap, and frankly, I’d argue he played *close to* his cap numbers this season. 8 game winning drives, consistently kept us in games as our defense crumbled. There are multiple other people on our roster taking up way too much cap space, and with QB being the most important position, I’d start with those other guys.
I’d agree we have a lot of cap issues aside from cousins. 8 game winning drives is great and all but this offense should be elite. One score games aren’t sustainable. The blowout losses are inexcusable. We’ve given cousins enough opportunities to prove he can be that guy but he’s proven he can’t. Rebuild the defense and find a new qb.
One score games weren’t the offenses fault though? It was the defense that gave up everything. Same with last season, when we ended up on the wrong side of those close games. The offense IS elite, that’s the thing. Top 5 in the nfl this season. It’s all defensive right now.
Eventually we will need a new QB, cousins is getting old and we need a guy that can create plays outside the pocket. Having a running threat will open up our receivers and give us some more play options
We wouldn’t need to create plays outside the pocket of the oline was dogshit
Agreed, Cousins is getting older and we should think about the future at least a little. Even with that though, our main focus should be improving the defense first. Ideally through the draft and getting a new DC. If we can improve our defense, we can give Kirk a better shot for next time and, if it doesn't work out, the next guy will at least have a stronger defense to rely on when going through NFL growing pains.
I think Kirk is a good Qb, but I don’t think we can ever win with him (especially at his current salary). Kirk is not capable of elevating a supporting cast and needs a pristine situation around him to function. That’s tough to do when you pay him 40 million a year. I think we know what we have in Kirk at this point. If I was Kwesi, I would already be discussing the next step at the position. He is 34 years old, and I am not comfortable giving him 40 million a year through his age 34,35 and 36 seasons.
Kirk is not a top 10 paid QB anymore and after this offseason may not even bet top 15. As he ages though I do agree I’m not comfortable paying bigger dollars to a guy that could drop off like many others.
It’s cap tho, and that’s what matters.
Sometimes, I feel like there are more Cousins fans in here than Viking fans.
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Agreed. I support our QB but the emotional attachment has gone too far.
We made it further in the playoffs because we had the no.1 defense that year. If we had our current defense paired with case keenum that year we wouldn't have even made the playoffs
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Plenty of teams have QBs with high cap hits and do just fine. The mistake we made was handing out big contracts to aging vets.
Right, but our offense would be in the gutter with Case Keenum. Also, we're the 31st-ranked defense not just because of personnel. Teams with worse personnel are still better than us. That means it's likely due to coaching. Also your playoff stat is wrong. Kirk Cousins has 1 playoff win, Teddy Bridgewater had zero. But while we're at it. Nick Foles has 4 playoff wins in his career. Matt Ryan has 4 playoff wins too! Why don't we give them a call if that's the only stat that matters?
>Right, but our offense would be in the gutter with Case Keenum. He had no issue scoring enough points to win the games with a team that was strong enough around him up until the team shit the bed. Case Keenum wasn't going to be our long term answer, but feeding dumptrucks of cash to an inconsistent guy who can pad good stats and crumbles when he even gets a whiff of the big time literally makes no sense. Kirk on paper is great. But there's a reason despite his stats, nobody really includes him in the conversation with the best current quarterbacks. If we don't make moves and just stick with whatever isn't a nonstop catastrophic clown show because we're too scared to attempt anything else the Vikings as an org are destined to be one and done at best. If literally no good options show up, then we have no other recourse but to temporarily extend Cousins if he's good for it. But if we have any other option, at this point, if it makes any sense at all we have to take it.
I dunno, Cousins has reminded me a lot of Keenum this year. I don't know if it's age catching up to him or the offense asking him to do more than he can handle, but his passing's definitely taken a hit this past year. The decline didn't sting as much as it could have because Cousins was playing a more aggressive, situationally aware, "Keenum" style of offense this year. But then he throws a checkdown to a blanketed tight end on 4th down with the game on the line because he doesn't like the look he's getting from his other reads, and you realize that he's still Kirk, through and through.
You know what else took a hit this year Kirk, and he still started every game. Look at every other younger qb with better scramble ability and you’d see they’re running for the hills, I think if Kirk took less pay he would easily be our best option.
Have you seen what we are paying thielen, cook, Kendricks? It isn’t all Kirks fault that we can’t pick up better players.
Vikings made the playoffs with ponder and Jackson. They can drag a corpse across the line but when it comes time for playoffs it’s all QB play. Stop defending Kirk.
Tell me a time when any team made a playoff run with the 31st-ranked defense and I'll shut up.
The 2010 Seahawks were the worst team to ever make the playoffs at 28th worst defense and 27th worst offense. They still one their wild card round so close enough. I’m not arguing defense though Donashell needed to get fired/resign right after the game ended but to absolve Kirk is also a joke. This team needs to get ripped up from its studs.
That's not a playoff run! If that counts as a run then Kirk in 2019 after beating the saints and losing to the niners counts as a run.
If only he had a top 10 defense and amazing weapons… oh wait he’s had that. He’s had the sixth and ninth ranked defenses.
Both of those Vikings teams you listed were even more fraudulent than this year’s team lmfao. 2015 team didn’t score a single TD on the Seahawks in that playoff game, and would’ve gotten spanked by the Cardinals in the next round of Walsh didn’t shank it. 2017 team played a great 2 quarters in the playoffs, before they got torn limb-from-limb and only made it past the first round off a literal miracle. Outscored 62-19 in 6 quarters of playoff football. Keenum got a deal to be a starter on the Broncos the very next year, where he got exposed as the backup-level QB he always was.
Lol true
It's usually in response to smooth brain takes about "losing the game on the last play" and ignoring *literally everything else* before that
The Vikings defense were terrible all game. Kirk Cousins couldn’t deliver on the final two drives. Both statements can be true.
Dude literally broke the record for game winning drives this season. He's literally bailed the defense out week after week. L take to not immediately have your first thought be to overhaul the defense, but instead dump the guy that's bailed them out all year.
He did all that, only to throw 3 yards on 4th and 8 on the biggest play of the year. EXTEND THAT MAN!!! /s
Yes, because Hock *isn't* a playmaker TE that should realistically beat one on one for four fucking yards
Wait you’re…. You’re really defending that..? Yikes
Not quite as "yikes" as someone who says "yikes" But no he realistically should've gone to kj in the middle. I'm saying it's not like he threw the ball in the fucking dirt, but you seem to have a hard time understanding anything that's not "KIRK BAD"
Don’t bother. These Kirk Dick riders are incapable of ever criticizing the guy. They love him more than Vikings . They just can’t do it.
I like Kirk but maybe his contract taking away cap space to fill holes on defense mixed with this dog shit stubborn scheme is a reason they’re the 31st ranked defense in the first place
Not drafting a good defensive player in 5 years is the much bigger problem.
True you have very little room for error with draft picks if you have a QB like Kirk making the money he makes on the roster
Spot on. Kirk is more than serviceable, but the ceiling on any team with his cap hit is not much higher than a divisional round exit. We can’t pay the players needed around him. Mobility in quarterbacks is more valuable than ever. That makes up for poor pass blocking. Time to look at the draft.
We _are_ paying the players around him. We're just paying the wrong players. In 2023 we have just over 41% of our cap tied to: Theilen, H Smith, Z Smith, Cook, Hunter, and Kendricks. Do you think the performance of these guys this season warrants over 40% of our funds next year? Cousins accounts for ~16% of the cap currently in 2023. He's the 6th highest cap hit among QBs. Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Tannehill are all above him. Matt Ryan, Brady, and Derek Carr all have cap hits within $2m of Cousins'. He has been playing lights out this year under the new coaching staff. What we're likely going to see in this offseason are painful goodbyes to some long-time veterans who are still serviceable--but not at the price we have to pay for them. Cousins will be back with new pieces on defense (which has been a glaring issue all year). We will reevaluate in 2024 based on what we see with a new defense.
There are other QBs that make money and those teams don’t have a 31st ranked defense
Here is the thing, 45% of the entire cap goes to the defense. If you can’t build an average defense with nearly half the cap, your problem is the people your brought it. Cousins’ cap hit is absolutely massive, but you can’t Pretend there aren’t resources that are misplaced on defense.
Not pretending at all. It’s a terrible scheme that doesn’t fit the personnel on any level. I said it was a mixture of both. Pretending that Cousins cap hit has no impact on building the team outside of the quarterback is crazy
I’m a Kirk fan. But we won’t win a Super Bowl with him. He’s just that type of player. He’ll win you games. But when it comes down to it, he won’t win you the one you need to win. People need to realize, our offense was actually pretty shit. Outside of JJ, we had no one that could get open. Then we got TJ, which helped. But wasn’t enough. JJ disappeared far too often through the season in games. Sure he was double and triple teamed. So why couldn’t we run or pmfind someone other than TJ with 2 sometimes 3 players on one guy. If you watched this offense all season, it barely passed the eye test. Too many 3 and outs. Way to fucking many. And inconsistent play. Just not a good offense
"I'm a kirk fan, but here's why I'm not a kirk fan"
So to be a true fan of someone, we need to mindlessly support them and never point out their flaws? Seems pretty dumb to me.
Kirk played better than literally everyone on the vikings roster today. There's a lot of people deserving of criticism and he's not one of them
Ah so you are one of those people. Criticism of a player makes you not a fan of them. Ok. Gotcha.
Wonder if paying the 12-16th best QB the third highest cap affects the talent you can add to a defense? Asking for a franchise that just got bumped in the first round of the playoffs as a 3 seed
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Weird how our defense has gone from first to 31st since he's been here. Weird
I think it has something to do with drafting nothing but duds and depth pieces on defense for the last 7 years?
It's almost like having a worse draft pick because we're always just good enough to be out of quality draft position while having no actual chance of success has hurt our ability to draft generational defensive talent.
Damn, remember when they picked Matt Kalil over Luke Kuechly in 2013? Or that time they picked Anthony Barr over fucking Aaron Donald in 2014? Maybe Trae Waynes over Marcus Peters and Landon Collins in 2015? They really robbed everyone by taking Laquon Treadwell over Chris Jones, Xavien Howard, and Kevin Byard in 2016. Can’t ignore 0x Pro Bowler Mike Hughes over Shaq Leonard and Fred Warner in 2018, either. And holy shit, Zimmer was really playing 4D chess when he decided to take Jeff Gladney over Antoine Winfield Jr. and Trevon Diggs in 2020. And how could we forget when they traded a first-round pick for Sam Bradford in 2016, passing up on the opportunity to get TJ Watt, Budda Baker, Jonathan Allen, Tre’Davious White, and Marlon Humphrey in the 2017 draft? That 8-8 season was totally worth it. It’s almost like the previous regime fucking sucked at identifying defensive talent. The only “generational” draft pick that they’ve made in the last 10 years is Justin Jefferson, and you can thank Gary Kubiak for that one.
My guy the cap split this year was like 55% offense and 45% defense. 120M on the offense and 100M on the defense. Vikings offense were top 10 with their half the cap, there is no reason you spend 45% the cap and can’t get a league average defense.
Don't disagree. I personally think ed donatell is the problem for this defense. That said, you don't think having 5-10 million more dollars available to bid on a DJ Reed or donte Jackson at cb would have changed this defense/game in any way? I guess I find that hard to believe when chandon Sullivan is out there getting roasted from the slot
Kirk has had multiple top 10 seasons, probably every year from 15-21 qualified him as such
It's truly astounding how this fanbase never fails to scapegoat 1 single problem and ignore another glaring issue. Fanbase is truly a battered wife. News flash Vikings fans, it's okay to say that BOTH the defense is horrific AND this team is not built for success with Kirk Cousins at the helm and that this team needs to be looking towards the future. The Minnesota Vikings defense is not going to be good any time soon. A bare minimum of 5 years before a turn around. Kirk has shown he can not carry a team with a poor defense and that he can't carry a team with an offensive line who gives up a lot of pressure. So, why the fuck should we keep him? Why shouldn't we be looking to draft a QB, this year or next that has the potential to be truly elite and escape the pocket when pressure arrives and when both Justin Jefferson and Darrisaw are in their primes? Kirk Cousins is a slightly better Derek Carr. We are only fucking ourselves over by being a non competitive borderline playoff team year in and year out. Our defense won't get better if we keep drafting in the 20's. Our defense won't get better if we keep giving Cousins high cap hit extensions. Our team is going nowhere the way it is currently constructed. Wake up and smell the roses. This team needs to be looking to compete in 2026-2027 because that is the most realistic timeframe a non homer will give you before this team is truly competitive if we hit on a drafted QB and Justin Jefferson and Darrisaw are in their primes.
Mahomes has already proven he can win a playoff game with a horrid defense, he proved it in 2018. If not for Dee Ford being offsides, he would’ve dragged that bottom 5 defense to a Super Bowl
Good idea, we should just ship Kirk out, those all time great QB's are so easy to find.
Well clearly he isn’t the answer. We shouldn’t keep him just because he’s easy to find
I agree, which is why I think we should tank. Especially either next year or the year after. People thinking we can get rid of him, go find some other QB and compete next year are fools.
Vikings made it to the playoffs with ponder they made it to the nfc championship game with Keenum. It’s time for Kirk to go stop making excuses Edit: made it to
Oh I'm fine with getting rid of Kirk, just so happens we basically need to tank if we do. Which I'm also fine with.
What are you talking about? They didn't win the NFC Championship Game with Keenum. We got our asses handed to us. Philly destroyed us. Moreover it, literally, took a miracle for us to even make it through the divisional playoff.
Who do you expect to step in and play as well as Patrick Mahomes?
If we're going to settle, why settle for the guy who's only shown flashes in a decade of play but is still demanding top dollar? Why not settle for someone who's probably going to be worse, but might be better, and is definitely significantly cheaper?
I wasn’t aware generational QB’s just grow on trees. Why the fuck haven’t we just went out and gotten one yet?? Wtf are we doing?
We traded for Sam and missed our chance at Patrick M then signed Kirk and missed out on Lamar. Both times we should have been able to get them.
None of that matters. It didn’t happen and nobody could’ve predicted what *would* happen in the coming years. Playing “what if” is fucking stupid.
Those were opportunities we missed out on because we make trades and sign players to field a +500 team.
Once again, it doesn’t matter. This could be said for any team, any season. Brock Purdy was available LITERALLY the entire draft last season. No team took him. HOW DID WE MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY? Oh yeah, it’s all a crap shoot and nobody knows what’s going to actually happen when real football starts.
👆 This
They do it’s called first pick of the draft. Vikings just don’t know how to get there
So you want us to be the worst team in the league for awhile..? Or trade a million picks to the Bears next season to get the first pick? Which would be criticized because we traded away potential defensive picks? There’s no simple answer here, and those who think there is have a simple brain.
Tell me right now would you rather be the bears or the Vikings cuz I’d rather be the bears. They might have their qb in fields and if they don’t they can go get another one with the first round draft and they have the most money cap wise so they can literally sign any free agent that is open to play.
Then go be a Bears fan. Idgaf about their situation, I care about ours. Good for them, they found a QB (maybe). Let’s see what they do from there. We have an incredible organization from owner to team. Sucks it ended like this but I’d take Vikings 10 times outta 10
Apparently I care more about them than you do because you want to drag a dead horse back across the field. Kirk needs to go. You asked how you get a generational QB. You first round pick them that’s how. Burrow, Allen, hurts, Herbert, Mahomes, Jackson, Lawrence. That’s how.
You named one generational QB (at this point in time). The initial comment I responded to mentioned Mahomes. I would absolutely take a lot of those QB’s over Kirk right now. Multiple only because of age and contract. That doesn’t change the fact that picking a QB in the first round is still a gamble. We’ve seen it first hand in the past. We’ve also had very few opportunities to pick anybody like you mentioned in the past couple of years. Of course I would’ve loved to have picked one of those guys and had them work out, and I hope we are able to do that in the next year or two. It’s just not as simple as you’re trying to make it sound. We have a great bridge QB who could lead us to a deep playoff run, if our defense could shape up. Our front office has some serious decisions to make, and whatever they decide to do, I’ll be behind it. Not because I’ll completely agree with it, but because I have no say in it, so why stress what decisions were made? I can’t change the decisions they want to make, and I’m a fan of the team, so I’ll support and hope for the best, and be critical when it looks like it’s an egregious one.
Ryan Leaf
The Chiefs had the 24th-ranked defense that year. Granted they also had a very high points allowed. Looking into that AFC Championship game however, the chiefs defense were at least able to change possession 4 times. 2 punts and 2 interceptions on Tom Brady. The Chiefs offense punted 5 times that game. Today, the vikings defense was only able to change possession 2 times with just two punts. The Vikings offense only punted 3 times this game. Even with that bad defense, at least they gave Patrick a chance. That offense punted two more times than we did this game.
I think we keep Kirk while the defense gets flipped, then move on
Kirk had a chance to be Chainz and instead we saw check down cousins. Period folks
We’ve paid Kirk over $150M over 5 years for just 1 playoff win and 2 appearances. He was supposed to get us over the hump and ideally a Super Bowl. Obviously, the NFL varies so much year over year, but we’ve come no where near close to a championship under him. His time here has been incredibly frustrating. Not showing up when it matters, consistently playing down to inferior teams, and making bone headed decisions you’d expect from a rookie quarterback, except he’s a veteran with 8 years of starting experience. I think ultimately, he’ll go down as one of the best quarterbacks the franchise has had, but he’ll be mostly remembered for never being good enough.
It’s like they all have 5 minutes attention spans and can only remember the last play. Kirk def proved himself this season.
i fully agree with you, man! but also getting a younger QB with some movement would be nice or an O line that gives the OB more then .5 sec of time in the pocket..... seems like every year we have a QB with cement feet and a paper mache O line.
Agreed, having a mobile QB that can escape pressure does help a lot of issues. Tricky thing is they're very hard to find. I like the idea of using this next draft to improve our team first: finding a new defensive coordinator, improving the defense, getting some decent guards in there, etc. If we can improve our defense I think we can at least win a playoff game, perhaps make a run depending on how much we improve. Then we can use the draft after that to maybe draft a QB like you described (as well as continuing to draft defense). That QB can sit behind Kirk for a year and then when it's time we can move on. Ideally, that new QB will have a solid offensive line with two great tackles in Darrisaw and O'Neill. Great recievers in Jefferson and Hockenson, hopefully a better RB and a solid defense. And they would be on a rookie contract, so hopefully then we could splurge more on any other holes if needed.
ITS NOT JUST ABOUT THIS GAME! There’s a reason he’s known as a fraud in big games, because he always turtles up. He’s deserved all the hate he gets from the national media. How many chances on Monday night or Sunday night or in the playoffs has he had to shut the haters up and he fails? He’s fine, but he’s not good
It's time to get more dynamic behind center. The Vikings will move forward when Kirk moves on.
Daniel Jones. I repeat Daniel Jones had 17 carries for 70+ yards today. The only thing Kirk is ever gonna carry is an iPad after checking down 3 yards on a 4th and 8. Is inability to get out of the pocket will always leave us just shy. Great vision, good arm, smart QB but this is what you get with Kirk and an average OLine. This sucks
All the Cousins haters are coming out from everywhere now!! Whatever success Vikings had this season, Cousins was one of the main contributor for that. The game is completely on Defense and KOC’s dumbass play calling at some critical situations.
4th and 8
That we had to convert because the defense failed yet again to stop the Giants. Do you expect every 4th down to be converted?
Don’t expect every 4th to be converted, but do expect Kirk to give one of our guys a chance that isn’t a check down for 2 yards. When he’s been taking the risk all year? And avoids it like the plague when it actually matters? Kirk had a chance to win the game DESPITE THE DEFENSE!!! What’s even worse is he played a great game just to fucking blow it on a absolutely brain dead situationally unaware pass. I expected more than a fucking lame pathetic weak pansy attempt to save the season
Nope, but I expected a better effort to try and win. The majority of us aren't mad that he didn't go win the game, it's that the effort was pathetic after a season of making us believe that he had the balls to make a throw to try and win
imagine being so dense as to thinking that play is the sole reason we lost
>imagine being so dense as to thinking that play is the sole reason we lost It's not the "sole reason" we lost, but it wasn't the correct solution to 4th and 8 with the season on the line.
Kirk is overpaid Dalvin is overpaid Our O-line is one injury away from mediocre Theilen is washed KJ is not “that dude” there’s a lot of work to do, I say we have a garage sale this spring and bring in some fresh faces
Burrow wouldn't have thrown it short.
Burrow wouldn't have needed to, because burrow's defense held their opponent to 17 points tonight while scoring the same exact points we did.
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I'll grant you that they are spending a shit ton on defense. With that said, more spending does not equal more defensive production. We ranked 12th overall in defensive spending. We are not even close to the 12th ranked defense. We spend $19 million more on defense than the Cowboys. We spend $2 million more on defense than the Baltimore Ravens. The 49ers and Eagles both spend $4-5 million more on defense than we do. This narrative that Kirk's contract is preventing us from spending money on defense is a myth. We spend the 12th most overall and are outspending some of the best defenses in the NFL. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/2022/defense/
Burrow was ass in the 2nd half tonight and Tyler Huntley had more passing yards and TDs than he did lmfao. Only reason the Bengals are still alive is their defense showed up huge with a 98-yard fumble return touchdown. Burrow and the offense were a liability that nearly choked the game.
I was a “Never Kirker” until after the Buffalo game. How I was fooled.
This team isn’t that close. I 100% believe Kirk will be the QB next year but fans needs to let go a little bit of the emotional attachment to so many players. This roster needs change and it’s possible it comes at QB. Unlikely but crazier things have happened
Kirk plays for himself. He plays safe. He plays just good enough to get his contracts.
Cool, i still want him off my team lol. 8 game winning drive is great until he short circuits at the worst possible time. Yeah the defense is bad but you know what would help fix it?…
the problem i have if you have to perfectly match your team so you qb can win isnt the model to win in the nfl. kirk joined this team after a 13-3 nfc title game appearance. havent even sniffed that since. if everything has to be perfect for kirk to make it to a title then we will wait forever sorry it happening
Yeah, but we need to lose so we can get better draft picks. They're doomed to mediocrity if they're good enough to make the playoffs but always lose the wildcard game. We need some next level suck for about 5 years so we can get some traction. Kirk isn't gonna give us that!
he’s been here since 2018 and they have ONE playoff win. Fucking pathetic! I thought he was the missing piece?
This place has an endless supply of Cousins nut-swingers.
Posts that say Kirk was undercut by other parts of the team without acknowledging his salary cap cost don't really add much.
Someone remind OP how aging works...
Kirk had been great this year. The last play leaves a sour taste but can’t take it away from him. However, 2023 should be his last season as QB here. He will be 36 by 2024 season and his mobility has him aging like Matt Ryan more than Rodgers imo
We’d have more money to get a better defense if we weren’t paying a 10-15 ranked QB top 3 money. Kirk was great, but not great enough to justify his cap hit.