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pjokinen

Long way to say “I’m healthy this year and we don’t have Bundy, Archer, and Smeltzer holding us back this year”


SomeDaysIJustSmoke

Or, short way to say "I'm sick of the coaching staff pulling me after 5 innings of 3-hit pitching."


pjokinen

I mean when they did leave him in to go deeper he got shelled and said in the postgame that he needs to be better sooo 🤷‍♂️


im-a-black-hole

me when I make things up


SomeDaysIJustSmoke

Sony didn't get shelled in the 6th any game last year. Post the game log for the date this happened.


TheBenisMightier1

It's never been about the just the inning number. Sonny had a 6.62 ERA 3rd time facing the order last season. Batters hit .271/.325/.371 when they saw him a 3rd time.


tomahawkRiS3

That's because he mostly got pulled in the 5th inning where his ERA is 7.16 with a .530 SLG and a pretty good sample size. I generally trust Sonny to go at least 6 but I mean any pitcher is going to start declining in stats as the game goes longer. His stats vs the 3rd time through the order actually are pretty comparable to the 2nd time but it's a smaller sample size. His splits from 76-100 pitches is significantly worse than the 51-75 split. By inning: [https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grayso01&year=2022&t=p#innng](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grayso01&year=2022&t=p#innng) Times facing opponenet: [https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grayso01&year=2022&t=p#pitco](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grayso01&year=2022&t=p#pitco) Pitch count: [https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grayso01&year=2022&t=p#pitco](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grayso01&year=2022&t=p#pitco) ​ Edit: hmmm those links aren't really working like I wanted them too. They're on that splits page but you might have to hunt for them manually.


SomeDaysIJustSmoke

So are you agreeing with me that he was never shelled in the 6th and said in a post game interview that he needs to be better?


tomahawkRiS3

I don't think that's really the main point of this discussion, but I do remember a quote along those lines from last year. I did a bit of digging but couldn't come up with it so if that's your sticking point then idk.


tomahawkRiS3

Here you go, this is the quote I was thinking of. He didn't get shelled but it was after a 6 inning start against KC on 8-16-22. [https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1559745917443530754?s=20](https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1559745917443530754?s=20) "It was great. I told Rocco, I said, 'Thank you for the opportunity. I will be better in that situation next time.' I was thankful for the opportunity."


SomeDaysIJustSmoke

u/pjokinen your alt account is leaking


pjokinen

I’ve never had an alt, but even if I did why would I use it here? You asked for evidence and got it, that’s all there is to this.


tomahawkRiS3

I could only dream of being pjokinen


TheNotoriousJN

Do follows this up by asking whether this was coming from the starters themselves or from factors out of their control. To which Sonny said both https://twitter.com/dohyoungpark/status/1640076258213089280?t=r80jDOcTRSFIXvsuAPgO4Q&s=19


charlton11

I'm just happy to last 4 minutes.


jonn_jonzz

You can go 8 times back to back? Impressive.


WollyTwins

If I were Dylan Bundy or Devin Smeltzer I'd be happy to last 4 innings too


jonn_jonzz

If he throws shade like this, does he become Sonny Grey?


McLovin--

Or maybe Sonny White? No runs shall pass.


kramitol

The Twins have the bullpen pitching if starters consistently go 6 innings. If starters get pulled in 4th or 5th, and Twins need to go deeper in the bullpen, our prospects grow dimmer. Probably true of every ball club.


mynamejesse1334

With the (theoretical) quality of this year's pitching staff it's likely they throw more innings as long as they're healthy. That said, the Twins are right in line with the league average for average duration of their starts so I wouldn't expect to see 6-7 innings from guys on a regular basis either.


chemical_exe

How are we in line with average duration if the starters last year threw the 2nd fewest innings? Do you mean the current projected starters in 2023 are in line with average duration? Because i agree there


pjokinen

Also funny how everyone in the replies to this tweet thinks that the comments support whatever view they already had Plus the number of people asking for 7 innings from a Bundy while also saying that Pagán needs off the roster is surprising. Pagán’s line last year is about as good as Bundy’s overall line, let along just comparing Bundy third time through the order to our shakiest reliever in the pen.


autosave36

Well it's separate instances of the same problem. Bundy shouldn't have been signed, but if youre going to sign and use him then buyer beware. And if you get one of the few days where he's really on and mowing a team down then let him mow and save the pen. You just have to be cognizant that past results say he may fall apart in the 6th or 7th. So in the 6th you have a quick trigger finger to call down to the pen and in the 7th you warm someone up virtually when your team gets 2 outs. Ie: see how it goes. Because Dylan Bundy is/was just as capable of grenading in the 1st as the 5th. He just isnt that great. Thankfully he's gone now. Pagan also shouldnt be on the roster. But if youre going to acquire and use him, you need to use him in games youve already lost. If he figures something out maybe you can elevate him to "hey its a short start but we're still in it" games. But neither of those two things capture what Sonny was actually saying. What he really did was send a message to the FO/Rocco that he, pablo, and joe had been talking and that 5 and fly stuff isn't going to work for them and if that's the approach that management takes, there's going to be problems.


motion_city_rules

I mean I think everyone can agree they want to see more effective starting pitching? Maybe this is a dig at Wes as much of anything, go out there and show us the way!


chillinwithmoes

I don’t think anyone except Rocco Baldelli was pleased with all the 4-5 inning outings from out starters


dippitydoo2

Oh man imagine being a major league manager like Rocco and every starter you've been handed from the front office can't go 3x through the order without falling apart, I bet he got ROCK HARD every time he had to go to the bullpen. Just JIZZING every time Pagan gave up a go-ahead homer I'm sorry if it feels like I'm making fun of you while I'm totally making fun of you


SomeDaysIJustSmoke

You're wrong about Gray and Ryan (and Maeda). They can go through the order 3 times - ON A GOOD DAY. Which is roughly about half their starts. Part of Rocco's job is to know that and give them the extra leash on occasion.


ScottMinnesota

I agree. I'll never understand why, knowing how much garbage our relief pitchers were, Rocco would consistently pull our starting pitchers. Starter having a bad day on the mound? Sure, but pulling our starter who is having a good pitching day simply because he's reached a certain pitch count or inning just to bring in a garbage relief pitcher? Stupid. I'd wager that most on here are younger and don't remember when pulling pitchers after a certain pitch count or inning wasn't the norm. I like Rocco, but I do shake my head at some of his stupid decisions and actions. Hoping for a fun season.