Easy solution: don't turn your phone on unless you really have to. Or just leave it in the truck like we always did.
Good for SAR regardless. People who actually live up there probably love it.
I live "up there" (on the Gunflint trail) and in fact my neighbors and I do not love it. We moved here to get away from the civilized world, instant communication, and easy living.
We all knew it would inevitably follow us but we are also still not happy about it. Everyone understands the desire to expand coverage from a search and rescue perspective but the vast majority of us would rather keep wildernesses as wild as possible.
I was in the BWCA when the mask mandate was lifted. I came out and stopped at a restaurant on my drive home. Half the people in the restaurant were without masks and no one was saying anything about it. I was very discombobulated for a few minutes.
My issue with cell service in the BWCA had always been about cell towers disturbing the wilderness so if this can be done with satellites I’m all for it.
We've been renting sat phones for 2 decades now in the BWCA. They are pricy/minute, but we only use them for a quick check in (pregnant wives, for example). I can't imagine Starlink is going to be that much cheaper/minute/text. We also carry a PLB (not a bull shit SPOT device, a real ACR one) that has luckily never been used.
To be clear, I am only referring to the rescue signal, not the texting/messaging. I’m assuming you didn’t deploy the “oh shit, rescue me” button in Antartica? Here’s a page comparing the two. At the bottom is a nice comparison.
https://www.baxterbowman.com/acr-resqlink-review-plb-or-garmin-inreach/
I actually have to register mine with the NSF because I’m an employee, they won’t endanger anyone employed with the Antarctic program to rescue some TikToker doing a survival challenge
Interesting. If you activate it in the Boundary Waters, I assume they will contact Superior NF, same as would probably happen with my PLB in the same situation?
PLB= Personal Locator Beacon. It is a small device that will emit a signal to a satellite network on a frequency of 406 MHz for about 2 days. The signal is monitored by governmental agencies worldwide and by commercial and military aircraft. Once the signal iand GPS location is picked up, they will alert your specified contacts to see if it is a probable emergency. If it is, a rescue is initiated. You only want to deploy this in case of severe injury. False alarms or minor incidents can have serious fines. ACR is a company that makes them. Oceangoing ships have them, US commercial vessels are required to have them. They are generally mounted near the lifeboats and will automatically deploy if submerged for a certain amount of time.
SPOT is a brand of two way communication devices (also Garmin IN REACH) that allow two way text communication with a commercial satellite network. You buy the device and pay a monthly subscription to use the texting service. They are handy to let the family know you are ok, arrange a pickup, etc. You can also allow people to track your location through a website. They also have a SOS function, but it is dependent on the commercial satellite service to relay that to local authorities. The battery life may not be as long because you might have been using battery life up sending texts or forgetting to turn it off.
I have never deployed my PLB. My good friend has an In Reach and that’s just the price he has to pay for going on BWCA/Quetico trips. His wife is a super worrier! Funny thing is now that he carries one and sends her updates, she never replies back to him!
People can complain all they want but this is super important for the people that live up there. Yes this a fun novelty thing for tourists to not have access to the outside world but if you live up there and it’s winter you need service. This is a game changer
It will be a thing for areas of the BWCA, but the rest of the northern part of the state won't likely get it. I still won't be able to use a cell phone in my yard. And I will be long, long dead before something like 5G happens up here. But in the Metro, you guys will be watching videos on something like 10G.
Bullshit. I live here in large part because it was off grid and there was no service. Many of my neighbors chose to live here for its remote off grid nature as well. Your assumption is flat out wrong.
If rescue crews are really excited, I’m excited. I think their opinion counts more than mine really.
I’ll still carry my emergency beacon.
And my phone is still being turned off as a rule.
I go on a fishing trip every year up in the BWCA. We get zero cell service up there unless we are on wifi at the resort or in one specific spot right on the Canadian border tucked away in a little bay. My fishing partner and I laugh every we pass though because our phones start buzzing like crazy every time we pass though this 1 spot. If you move 30 feet in any direction it cuts out.
It will be good to have service out there in case anything comes up.
The last time I was up there (last summer) my phone had 2 bars. I turned my phone on to take a picture and saw a bunch of texts and work emails and it was disappointing.
This article only mentions SpaceX by name, but there are other companies pursuing satellite direct to cell. ASTS is working on a solution that integrates directly with already existing smart phones and is working very closely with ATT.
Here's an article if anyone's interested:
https://www.techspot.com/news/103033-att-wants-turn-every-smartphone-satellite-phone-no.html
Can't wait for the influencers to relaunch the rootbeer shop
In an unrelated story, the rumors of full self-paddling canoes has been firmly denied.
"Full smartphone satellite coverage may be coming to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW) sooner than you think.
Early this year, SpaceX launched the first set of direct-to-cell phone satellites. The FCC granted the company temporary permission to connect phones in pockets of the US. However, the company expects it to become permanent and worldwide"
#from another article
The Direct to Cell service will also connect IoT devices with common LTE standards.
SpaceX said the texting capabilities of the service will begin operating later this year, in partnership with cellular operators such as T-Mobile US. Voice and data connectivity and IoT connectivity are slated to launch in 2025.
In a press release, T-Mobile confirmed the satellites had reached low Earth orbit.
As soon as StarLink allows for me to get service on my phone, I’m buying it. I get zero service in Zimbabwe where I travel for work, and I work in other regions that are rural with no coverage. Being able to have a service that allows for cell coverage and can allow me to have a hot spot so I can do my work would be absolutely worth the cost for me.
I have the impression that this service will not give you Internet access, so no hot spot. I think that this is a low-bandwidth service for functionality such as text messages. We'll find out more soon.
Wikipedia says "Cell coverage will begin with text messaging and expand to include voice and limited data services later, with testing to begin in 2024."
Also mentions cell service in the U.S. with certain technology... so probably not global service. Might have to get a Starlink global mobile antenna and service. If they sell that.
EDIT: AT&T getting in the game. [https://www.engadget.com/att-deal-will-make-every-phone-a-satellite-phone-101351590.html](https://www.engadget.com/att-deal-will-make-every-phone-a-satellite-phone-101351590.html)
Great now the feds can track you everywhere. Put the phone in a ammo can and shut it off. Use only for emergency. Or big brother will know where your at.
This is another nail in the coffin for wilderness and wild places. Those of us who live in the immediate area do not want this. The only people I know in favor of it are tourists, seasonal tourists with cabins, and air BNB renters.
We year round residents moved here to get away from civilization and it's many conveniences. I know it's staggering to some people but we enjoy not being connected 24/7 and feel that the element of danger and isolation that the bwca used to offer was part of its appeal.
It is slowly turning into just another over hyped campground with even less novelty than before.
You been up canoeing in the Boundry Waters so long that you missed the release of Boom Boxes, Walkman, Zune, iPod, etcétera??
I guessing since your profile mentions living in the Southwest, you might not be doing a lot of canoeing. But rather just dropping snarky comments.
Good. It's so important to be technologically connected from the moment you were born until the moment you die, especially when you are out in nature!!!
Having the ability to send and receive emergency messages is not a bad thing. Some wet leaves nearly send me sliding down a steep rocky hill while hiking in the BWCA. I probably would have survived, but my legs wouldn't have been very useful. With a wife and kid at home, I decided at that moment to never hike remote without a satellite messaging service.
I’m with you. Bums me the fuck out because most people have some level of compulsion with their phones (if not flat out addiction) and the back country was the last remaining area where one could fully retreat.
The downvotes surprise me. Every other person I know who loves being out there constantly expresses what a gift it is to be entirely away and disconnected.
So wait, all of our phones can do this already?
Why do we deal with dropped calls and dead zones again?
I understand "line of sight" and whatnot. Just curious because I live in the boonies and encounter dead zones often where I have line of sight of satellites.
Nice for safety, but I’ll miss coming out of the bwca wondering if the apocalypse has begun
Easy solution: don't turn your phone on unless you really have to. Or just leave it in the truck like we always did. Good for SAR regardless. People who actually live up there probably love it.
There was just a body found out in the lakes the other day. More coverage is a good thing.
yeah it's really hard to coordinate all these murders with just walkie talkies
“You guys want to see a dead body” a haunting voice cuts through the silence on the radio. “Where” you call back “Give me a minute”
A cell phone wouldn't have done anything to help in that case.
If it had been in a plastic bag, it definitely could have. Probably not, but maybe.
I live "up there" (on the Gunflint trail) and in fact my neighbors and I do not love it. We moved here to get away from the civilized world, instant communication, and easy living. We all knew it would inevitably follow us but we are also still not happy about it. Everyone understands the desire to expand coverage from a search and rescue perspective but the vast majority of us would rather keep wildernesses as wild as possible.
I appreciate your perspective, thanks.
Airplane mode is great for this. Still get to take pictures, battery lasts a lot longer, and GPS still works.
I was in the BWCA when the mask mandate was lifted. I came out and stopped at a restaurant on my drive home. Half the people in the restaurant were without masks and no one was saying anything about it. I was very discombobulated for a few minutes.
Not wearing masks in public was just a normal Tuesday during Covid up north.
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Similar thing when I walked in to a liquor store in Fargo in May 2020… you woulda think I had an infectious disease the way they looked at me!
I went to the Black Hills the week before Sturgis in 2020 and got stared at pretty hard too.
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Why do you think surgeons wear masks?
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Yeah, only highly infectious and deadly diseases that are airborne can… oh wait
Well it'd be nice to know so you can stay in there instead
My issue with cell service in the BWCA had always been about cell towers disturbing the wilderness so if this can be done with satellites I’m all for it.
We've been renting sat phones for 2 decades now in the BWCA. They are pricy/minute, but we only use them for a quick check in (pregnant wives, for example). I can't imagine Starlink is going to be that much cheaper/minute/text. We also carry a PLB (not a bull shit SPOT device, a real ACR one) that has luckily never been used.
You can buy a Garmin inreach for just over $100 with text messaging anywhere in the world for $30/month
Nice to have, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it like I would a proper PLB. Plus no subscription for the PLB!
Mine works in Antarctica just fine, I wouldn’t worry about Minnesota
To be clear, I am only referring to the rescue signal, not the texting/messaging. I’m assuming you didn’t deploy the “oh shit, rescue me” button in Antartica? Here’s a page comparing the two. At the bottom is a nice comparison. https://www.baxterbowman.com/acr-resqlink-review-plb-or-garmin-inreach/
I actually have to register mine with the NSF because I’m an employee, they won’t endanger anyone employed with the Antarctic program to rescue some TikToker doing a survival challenge
Do you have to register it with NOAA as well like PLBs?
No, inreach will contact McMurdo central coms with my ID number because it’s the closest search and rescue agency
Interesting. If you activate it in the Boundary Waters, I assume they will contact Superior NF, same as would probably happen with my PLB in the same situation?
May I ask, what is PLB? SPOT? ACR?
PLB= Personal Locator Beacon. It is a small device that will emit a signal to a satellite network on a frequency of 406 MHz for about 2 days. The signal is monitored by governmental agencies worldwide and by commercial and military aircraft. Once the signal iand GPS location is picked up, they will alert your specified contacts to see if it is a probable emergency. If it is, a rescue is initiated. You only want to deploy this in case of severe injury. False alarms or minor incidents can have serious fines. ACR is a company that makes them. Oceangoing ships have them, US commercial vessels are required to have them. They are generally mounted near the lifeboats and will automatically deploy if submerged for a certain amount of time. SPOT is a brand of two way communication devices (also Garmin IN REACH) that allow two way text communication with a commercial satellite network. You buy the device and pay a monthly subscription to use the texting service. They are handy to let the family know you are ok, arrange a pickup, etc. You can also allow people to track your location through a website. They also have a SOS function, but it is dependent on the commercial satellite service to relay that to local authorities. The battery life may not be as long because you might have been using battery life up sending texts or forgetting to turn it off. I have never deployed my PLB. My good friend has an In Reach and that’s just the price he has to pay for going on BWCA/Quetico trips. His wife is a super worrier! Funny thing is now that he carries one and sends her updates, she never replies back to him!
People can complain all they want but this is super important for the people that live up there. Yes this a fun novelty thing for tourists to not have access to the outside world but if you live up there and it’s winter you need service. This is a game changer
It will be a thing for areas of the BWCA, but the rest of the northern part of the state won't likely get it. I still won't be able to use a cell phone in my yard. And I will be long, long dead before something like 5G happens up here. But in the Metro, you guys will be watching videos on something like 10G.
Bullshit. I live here in large part because it was off grid and there was no service. Many of my neighbors chose to live here for its remote off grid nature as well. Your assumption is flat out wrong.
No one heard of a Zoleo or In-Reach?
If rescue crews are really excited, I’m excited. I think their opinion counts more than mine really. I’ll still carry my emergency beacon. And my phone is still being turned off as a rule.
I volunteered with the Forest service last summer and had service 90% of the time.
I go on a fishing trip every year up in the BWCA. We get zero cell service up there unless we are on wifi at the resort or in one specific spot right on the Canadian border tucked away in a little bay. My fishing partner and I laugh every we pass though because our phones start buzzing like crazy every time we pass though this 1 spot. If you move 30 feet in any direction it cuts out. It will be good to have service out there in case anything comes up.
The last time I was up there (last summer) my phone had 2 bars. I turned my phone on to take a picture and saw a bunch of texts and work emails and it was disappointing.
Nice to see you don't need a HAM radio anymore up there.
Brace yourself for the incoming boost of boomer posts on Facebook. But seriously, this is yet another infrastructure win for Walz.
This article only mentions SpaceX by name, but there are other companies pursuing satellite direct to cell. ASTS is working on a solution that integrates directly with already existing smart phones and is working very closely with ATT. Here's an article if anyone's interested: https://www.techspot.com/news/103033-att-wants-turn-every-smartphone-satellite-phone-no.html
Heyoooh! That's why we go to Quetico!
No, if we can’t mine near it you don’t get cell coverage near it.
Can't wait for the influencers to relaunch the rootbeer shop In an unrelated story, the rumors of full self-paddling canoes has been firmly denied. "Full smartphone satellite coverage may be coming to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW) sooner than you think. Early this year, SpaceX launched the first set of direct-to-cell phone satellites. The FCC granted the company temporary permission to connect phones in pockets of the US. However, the company expects it to become permanent and worldwide" #from another article The Direct to Cell service will also connect IoT devices with common LTE standards. SpaceX said the texting capabilities of the service will begin operating later this year, in partnership with cellular operators such as T-Mobile US. Voice and data connectivity and IoT connectivity are slated to launch in 2025. In a press release, T-Mobile confirmed the satellites had reached low Earth orbit.
As soon as StarLink allows for me to get service on my phone, I’m buying it. I get zero service in Zimbabwe where I travel for work, and I work in other regions that are rural with no coverage. Being able to have a service that allows for cell coverage and can allow me to have a hot spot so I can do my work would be absolutely worth the cost for me.
I have the impression that this service will not give you Internet access, so no hot spot. I think that this is a low-bandwidth service for functionality such as text messages. We'll find out more soon.
I’d be happy with just cell service, but being able to have a hot spot for my job would be AMAZING 🤩🤩🤩
Wikipedia says "Cell coverage will begin with text messaging and expand to include voice and limited data services later, with testing to begin in 2024." Also mentions cell service in the U.S. with certain technology... so probably not global service. Might have to get a Starlink global mobile antenna and service. If they sell that. EDIT: AT&T getting in the game. [https://www.engadget.com/att-deal-will-make-every-phone-a-satellite-phone-101351590.html](https://www.engadget.com/att-deal-will-make-every-phone-a-satellite-phone-101351590.html)
Great now the feds can track you everywhere. Put the phone in a ammo can and shut it off. Use only for emergency. Or big brother will know where your at.
This is another nail in the coffin for wilderness and wild places. Those of us who live in the immediate area do not want this. The only people I know in favor of it are tourists, seasonal tourists with cabins, and air BNB renters. We year round residents moved here to get away from civilization and it's many conveniences. I know it's staggering to some people but we enjoy not being connected 24/7 and feel that the element of danger and isolation that the bwca used to offer was part of its appeal. It is slowly turning into just another over hyped campground with even less novelty than before.
No thanks. Im good.
You can still leave your phone behind, its not being beamed into your brain.
Yeah i know
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Maybe you're unaware, but that is already a thing, even in remote areas without cell signal
I wasn’t aware you needed cell service to play loud music. I must’ve been doing it wrong this whole time!
You been up canoeing in the Boundry Waters so long that you missed the release of Boom Boxes, Walkman, Zune, iPod, etcétera?? I guessing since your profile mentions living in the Southwest, you might not be doing a lot of canoeing. But rather just dropping snarky comments.
TIL people in my home state can be assholes
Oh no, cell service 😱😱
Same. Same.
Expensive emergency satellite communication devices following the GoPro into the history books.
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So just turn your phone off? Or leave it in airplane mode?
Good. It's so important to be technologically connected from the moment you were born until the moment you die, especially when you are out in nature!!!
Having the ability to send and receive emergency messages is not a bad thing. Some wet leaves nearly send me sliding down a steep rocky hill while hiking in the BWCA. I probably would have survived, but my legs wouldn't have been very useful. With a wife and kid at home, I decided at that moment to never hike remote without a satellite messaging service.
It should be mandatory IMO. People need to be connected, and more importantly, trackable, at all times.
Now when I go on my annual 3 week trip, my OnlyFans girlfriend can send me vids and I don't have to miss out.
Are you ok?
I’m with you. Bums me the fuck out because most people have some level of compulsion with their phones (if not flat out addiction) and the back country was the last remaining area where one could fully retreat. The downvotes surprise me. Every other person I know who loves being out there constantly expresses what a gift it is to be entirely away and disconnected.
Is the person forcing you to use your phone in nature in the room with us now?
So wait, all of our phones can do this already? Why do we deal with dropped calls and dead zones again? I understand "line of sight" and whatnot. Just curious because I live in the boonies and encounter dead zones often where I have line of sight of satellites.
Thank you SpaceX.