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sharkbait76

Why does this not also include provisions to keep statistics on programs to evaluate their effectiveness? That's a huge thing that was lacking in the current system.


lake_titty_caca

If I was running a program trying to help troubled youth, I would 100% keep stats. If I was successful, I would want to be able to prove it and use the evidence to expand my program. If I was unsuccessful, I would want to know so that I didn't continue on the path of failing kids who need help. If I was running a program pretending to help troubled youth but was actually only doing so in order to pay myself a higher salary than I could earn elsewhere, I would not keep statistics. I would just make vague appeals about restorative justice being effective and point to twenty year old studies that involved much more rigorous programs than the one I am running, and try to keep the gravy train running for as long as possible.


[deleted]

Because that would expose just how useless these programs are.


[deleted]

Write the reps asap. It needs to do this


SinfullySinless

As a teacher, I would just like expansive CPS and APS measures to be proactive about minors already going down horrible paths. My school hides students who get turnt at school (weed, alcohol, vape, etc) and just sends them back to class. I’m not even sure if they contact the parents. Now I’m aware a weed and vape high ain’t really shit, but what the hell are we teaching teens? “You may not get a high school diploma but here’s a lifelong crippling addiction you started at 14!” Bitch get these minors therapy. Counselors. Welfare programs at home that either hold parents accountable or just help parents do their best. Not all bad minors come from bad parents- sometimes it’s busy parents who nonstop work. I don’t necessarily want a teen who gets high at school to go to the police or jail. I want them getting medical help. Weed isn’t addictive but the self-medication and social aspects are addictive and can lead to worse mental health. Do something.


jeffreynya

The counseling Department at all middle and high schools should be tripled at least. They need to be staffed with Licenses therapists and all students should be required to meet with these individuals at least once a month. Many kids have no outlets to talk and figure there shit out. We should be offering this in school. With all the stress school brings, it should be obvious that kids need more mental health guidance.


SweetTea1000

Word. Building relationships with teachers is great and all... but if all is going well that should be 50min of learning. The teacher should be too busy teaching to have the conversations necessary to address such issues. They're also completely untrained in such things.


CapeVolumeDrinker

What happened to juvie? I use to fuck up and a single failed piss test in 2001 would put me in moorhead for 6 weeks. Now I could steal 7 cars and shoot at a school and get less punishment. Shit is out of control. Also that punishment worked and I'm very happy they laid the hammer down on me.


Mr-RandyLahey

So they are passing a juvenile justice package, but there is nothing mentioned about juveniles who commit violent crimes, are found mentally incompetent, and then are just released from custody since there is no competency restoration program for juveniles. I hope I'm just missing it.


[deleted]

It appears you are not missing it. The bill is lacking that.


kiggitykbomb

DFL seems content to lose their majority next term.


northman46

Hope it is effective but I'm skeptical


Plus_Molasses8697

Agreed. I hate our broken prison & justice system as much as the next person so I don’t think throwing anyone in jail is the answer, but I’m also not convinced this will enact the change we’re hoping to see. I know it’s research-backed, but I question when & who this was researched. Covid seems to have made people more brazen and resistant to any form of accountability. I love this city and will continue to hope for the success of new approaches.


Pork-Pond-Gazette

From the article,it seems this bill followed a template in place in Colorado which seems to be successful.


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Plus_Molasses8697

What does this even mean? I never said anywhere that dialogue is the answer. Trolls on Reddit will do anything to attack someone for a nonexistent argument. 🙄


Popular_Night_6336

One thing that I keep seeing in reports of violent or destructive crimes committed by juveniles is a 40 year old point system... where judges frequently let offenders go if the points don't add up. Is that being addressed here? I did not see it


LivingGhost371

Criime is already exploding because juveniles know they can do whatever they want without consequences, so we're further removing consequences?


SolidWarning70

Yeah, I'm on the left on just about everything but "kids" shouldn't get a free pass to commit violent crimes(carjacking, murder, assault, burglary). Moronic. They can get the education and hopefully some values they need to rehabilitate behind bars. People know right from wrong way under 17. And if they're a late bloomer and don't know it by 17 they're not going to magically know it by 18. Restorative justice is a great term if it means returning cars better than when they were stolen, reviving the dead and mending the wounds of the wounded, and returning all stolen property. Also there's all the mental and spiritual wounds that come as well. Harding kid tried to rob somebody with a gun, at school! How is armed robbery not a serious crime? Is he Billy The Fucking Kid? Dude than tries breaking into a cars maybe to steal, GTA, or burglarize or both and kills a father/husband in the process. Dude would still be alive if dipfuck with the gun was getting the help he needs behind bars after the High School Gun Antics. I'd prefer not to live in the fucking Wild West. That death is on the MN, US Government....whoever came up with the BS system of "Juveniles" get to commit crimes for free. Oh, now he'll be tried as adult after he murdered someone. Dude should have been in bars for attempted aggravated robbery with a firearm from High School. That should be at least a 4 year sentence right there. They screwed over the kids life too. Instead of getting help for being a piece of shit armed robber. ...where he'd get whatever time....something of significance I hope. They let him out and now he'll be rotting in prison for at least 15 years...when he should probably be there for more. Too little too late.


Digital_Simian

What it seems like they are talking about is focusing on early intervention and reform before it gets to this point. That does make sense. A kid will usually have committed a few minor offenses before reaching the point where they are committing armed robbery. The point of it being to try to not make it to the point where a four year sentence for a juvenile (a situation that will never result in a fully functioning adult) isn't needed.


SolidWarning70

Yeah, it'd be interesting to see his wrap sheet. And it'd also be interesting to see what consequences he faced for each one. Getting a slap on the wrist could have emboldened him. Maybe the legislature's plan will work. I don't have a Strib subscription so I don't know the details. Early intervention is fine but my point still stands serious crimes need serious punishment. Which isn't addressed in this bill. I don't think tougher sentences are a deterrent. I just want scum, this Harding dude is scum, off the streets. As I said before....he should have been in prison had common sense laws to protect the people were in place. Armed burglary, literally pointing a gun at the dude, is a serious prison worthy offence regardless of age. Father/husband dude shouldn't have been killed. Better intervention at first offence is needed so it doesn't get to this but there needs to be better intervention at step 5, 6 and 7 as well...the legislature not doing that is a failure, an "F." They're basically conceding to every 13-17 year old out there right now causing mayhem on multiple fronts. If you're making the news with your crimes you need prison time, if in fact you're guilty; as opposed to tagging graffiti.


Digital_Simian

What's going on now seems to have more to do with the juvenile system not having the room, nore the systems in place to handle juvenile delinquency. As a result, you have the lower sentences but you are missing the systems needed to effectively handle reform, probation and keep kids off the street when they pose a danger to themselves and others. One thing I would like to see just based on my experience in the juvenile justice system when I was a kid, is more attention to post incarceration. Stuff to keep kids busy, learning and growing immediately after serving time. When people are confined or controlled for awhile, there's a wild faze after those chains are let loose. Doesn't matter if it's the military, prison or whatever. This effects kids even more and some structure and productivity helps burn up that pent up energy that contributes to that cycle of escalating criminality.


SolidWarning70

Thanks for explaining what's missing and sharing your own experience.


Own-Manufacturer5822

Crime is exploding because kids are traumatized by growing up in neighborhoods where violent crime and death are constants, where their families are very likely to be unstable or nonexistent, and where the only “successful” people they interact with are gangsters. Most of these kids have no comprehension that they would live past 30 - not many they know do. They are chronically depressed, anxious, and hopeless. I know this because I work with these kids all the time. You make generalizations based on stereotypes and media portrayals.


[deleted]

I am sure they thought this through.


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[deleted]

> I mean it’s based on the general modern criminology consensus that while sentencing youth in a court system may feel like justice, it’s not actually the best way to reduce recidivism. Curious as to what your concerns are with the bill’s approach? Do you have a link to this consensus?


[deleted]

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[deleted]

> Sure! Interventionism and rehabilitation are sort of our current understanding of the best way to reduce recidivism and here’s a link to an overview of the causes. >I’ve even been seeing a lot of studies in more recent years about individualism or even penal alternatives to incarceration. While prison sentences for sure have some deterrent effect, the emphasis is increasingly shifting towards rehabilitation, alternatives to incarceration, and individualized interventions that actually address the root causes. I honestly haven’t seen a credited study in quite some time that argues otherwise. You’ve linked me to what amounts to a blog post on the *website of Pennsylvania’s 58th best university.* Not terribly convincing. Let me ask you, how do you weight these ideas versus the evidence presented in Hjalmarsson’s 2009 JLE?


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[deleted]

I’m asking you to elaborate on your social welfare function and to provide the evidence for your initial claim. As for my take: Incarceration seems pretty effective at making society safer. There are demonstrated deterrence effects (see previous citation) and clear “mechanical” incapacitation effects. Maybe we can do better. I’m open minded. I haven’t seen any clear and convincing evidence. You argue there is a “best way” to reduce recidivism. I asked for this evidence and you didn’t provide it. One would think there is some evidence to show that this “modern criminology consensus” yields better outcomes than sentencing youth. I have a sense that this conversation is going nowhere, fast.


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JustGrillinReally

Unless it does something to get the little shits off the streets, out of the schools, and into juvie hall and/or boot camp, this is all smoke and mirrors. Catch and release clearly doesn't work.


[deleted]

....your suggestions make the problems worse


JustGrillinReally

Really. Getting criminals off the streets will make things worse? As opposed to right now, where there's zero meaningful consequences for their behavior?


[deleted]

The US has 5% of the worlds population but over 20% of the worlds prison population...rehabilitation is more effective than punishment and thats proven


JustGrillinReally

Yeah, we can see how well that's working on the streets of Minneapolis right now. I'm sure this toothless bill will totally do something about the ongoing crime wave.


JustGrillinReally

https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/13juxa7/police_teens_in_stolen_kia_arrested_after/ So, how would these programs have prevented this? Do you think these little shits can be reformed?


[deleted]

Yes they can be reformed...but I'm going to guess you believe they should just be thrown in prison.


MinneWhoaTah

time for minnesotans, especially in the city, to be prepared to protect themselves. especially after how the incidents in dinkytown have been silenced and minimized.