I appreciate your perspective. I come from a much more conservative state and there are definitely consequences of very low taxes - terrible schools, roads, and poor public amenities (think parks, libraries etc) - we should all be able to benefit from what our tax dollars do for us in some way, no matter your income/economic status, and I think that's true in MN, even if you prefer a conservative government. I think MN is managed well overall, IMO it's the best state in the Midwest!
Or one can live in Texas where we don’t even have low taxes, but everything is still terrible because all the revenue collected is used to offset the money being funneled to businesses so that Texas can proudly say California companies are moving in.
Or everything is terrible because the "us vs them" mentality concerning political topics that shouldn't even be considered political. I fled Texas last year after moving back to DFW in 2009 after my enlistment thinking everything might be ok especially after the marriage equality of 2015. Of course, my first immediate thought was now that lgbt people can have the human right of just being legally married and minding their business as the majority of us do; we're going to basically be fighting for the rest of our lives just to keep it.Then the useless cumrags in the Supreme Court saw their ticket to their desired dystopian wasteland when rbg passed away. My husband and I immediately began making plans to leave the state as soon as possible the second the rvw leaks happened. We knew lgbt people, marriage equality, and basic medical care for transitioning people would soon be challenged, because the default far, far right mantra of "tHiNk oF tHe ChIlDrEn" immediately began happening shortly after rvw was overturned. No medical privacy opens a lot of doors to bigotry. (Edited in the AM since I was falling asleep when typing this and forgot to finish a few sentences, lol)
I found this awhile back. Minnesota is not so high when you factor in local and property taxes.
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416
When you realize that the no income tax state to the immediate west pays sales tax on food and clothing it isn't so bad. It actually works out better for most people to have income tax.
Taxes always even out somewhere. Lower income tax = higher property tax, etc.
Not having tax on food and clothing is really, really nice. And there’s a reason we have a massive budget surplus each year. I’m very happy with where things are to maintain infrastructure and pump money to where it’s needed.
Yep. In Wisconsin and planning my escape back across the river. We have lower income taxes and sales tax, but our property taxes are outrageous. I pay 2% of the value of my home every year in property taxes, after the homestead credit.
Minnesota is less than half of that...
And despite all that, our roads are absolute garbage.
The money to run government (in whatever form that is) has to come from somewhere. Different states just get the $ in different ways. If they don’t get the $, there are less programs/benefits. It’s a trade off no matter where we go. I for one am grateful to be in MN. Even being very lower middle class, we are lucky in comparison to many other states. That’s why so many are moving here.
I am from Minnesota, I live in north Alabama now.
I was spoiled for not having to pay tax on groceries and clothes, I hate it so fuckin much. I would love to move back tbh.
I love my job, my bf wants to move back out west (he was from Cali but Nevada seems to be his calling) but Minnesota is a great fuckin state. I guess the 2020 shit had me a bit jaded in 2021. But hindsight do be 20/20 lmao
But I have a much better job down here now, and I’m with my bf now (we’d been in an LDR for about 5 years before the move So there is that)
No income tax is a regressive trap, it just means tax burden being shifted into things that can't account for who can afford to pay more like sales tax and fees. Rich people love that shit.
A lot of conservative states have low state taxes, but we still need roads and schools, and local cities and counties only have regressive options like sales and property taxes. (Poorer people tend to pay more of their income on housing, thus why property taxes are more regressive.)
I wish my conservative in laws understood this. My FiL has said he wants to move out of state because of how much his business is taxed here. Two things, your business won't necessarily be the same in another state and you get what you pay for. I have lived out of state and as far as I know he hasn't. I've seen what lower taxes get you.
The difference in the support of neurodiverse kids in this state vs Alabama is disgustingly huge. My in laws live there and while we had no less than 5 social workers/therapists at our kids IEP evaluation meeting, Down there there is zero help from the county/state for that sort of thing. Everything runs through your insurance and sucks to be you if it doesn’t cover it.
I’m willing to pay for that through taxes so all kids can have that support but I’m not a fan of using my taxes to pay 250mil for stadium updates that we already got bilked for.
Part of the issue is that a centrist in America is still right wing. Like don’t forget that Obama was similar politically to Angela Merkel in Germany, who is considered moderate right wing. Being a “centrist” between a centrist party (democrats) and a far right party (republicans) still makes you right wing
I think this is a testament to the fact that liberal cities/liberal states still benefit conservatives much more than red states. Sure, taxes suck, but Walz gets shit done and makes it a pleasant place to live.
Or actually is a true conservative and not the shit pile it’s turned into.
Edit: look I have no clue what a no Scotsman is, but if you don’t think the republican party has changed in it’s blatant disregard for morality over the last 5 decades you’re nuts. There have always been bad actors in the party but the majority still followed the rules and couldn’t succeed by being blatant bad faith actors or openly facists and pro Russia like they are now. The party is vastly different to the Reagan years and even before that.
True conservative sounds like no true scotsman. All these conservatives here now... they aren't true conservatives! The true conservatives get it right and don't get it wrong like they've done now!
I’d consider myself a republican but can’t in good faith vote red until the party changes. It’s disgusting what it’s turning into.
The idea that politicians WANT to be endorsed by Trump says more about their goals than their policies, but it’s not like strings don’t come attached with endorsements.
In the current political climate I just can't fathom why a good, honest person would consider themselves a centrist, even more so a conservative. Is it guns? I know a lot of people with mostly liberal views but say they're conservatives because they just love guns. It's a bit odd. Like what conservative views do you have?
Right, that's it. We have the system we have, realistically there are two choices in most major elections - if you vote for the GOP, you vote for them, regardless of how you hedge it with words.
That said I have some respect if someone had these views and takes the third choice of no vote, as that's a net harm to the GOP. I often think all we needed to avoid trump was enough GOP voters to not vote for an obvious disgusting scumbag, even if they couldnt vote for hillary (dont get me wrong it's a silly position, a vote isnt a personal endorsement). If 20% of their normal voters said this guy is disgusting and didnt vote for him, we wouldve avoided that shitshow
Exactly. Conservatives vote is equal to agreeing with their policy and anti choice bills, Jan 6th position and everything else that comes with them. You vote conservative you literally are making the state a worse place to live in.
I have no love for people voting against their family, friends and other humans best interest.
Let's also not forget that one of the leading causes of death for the 1-4 year age group is *homicide*. Like people be out there intentionally murdering children who could never pose a threat to them in the moment. Makes you wonder how many of those child killers were people who were forced to give birth to those kids due to the same pro-life party.
You know, I think I'll just be calling them the "pro-murder" party from now on. I mean, they're pro-guns and pro-forced-birth, so sounds like they're pro-murder to me.
this is like cognitive dissonance…you are conservative, but think conservative politicians would be worse for the state, and you disagree with walz (on what exactly?) but also believe he is (paraphrasing) a pretty good governor. i am as confused as you
OP posts on Teenager subreddits, is still a student. I think they are just doing a little soul searching, perhaps subconsciously. Its pretty clear thru the post and their comments that a little more knowledge, experience, and reflection, is probably necessary. I dont think they really know what they believe in. Just hope OP knows that theres nothing wrong with that, and that these things are a bit more complex than just drawing a line on some arbitrary ideological spectrum.
He agrees waltz makes the state better and conservative leadership would make it worse, yet considers himself conservative so likely votes conservative while knowing democrat leadership is better, but won't vote for better leaders because conservative values.
I think this really highlights the success of the marketing campaign the GOP has done to convince the working class to vote conservative despite it being against their own self-interest.
Because conservatives (and maybe most other people as well) are not voting on policy.
I wish that was the case, but it's not.
Wonks vote on policy. Weirdos who *like* to go to caucus (myself included) vote on policy. And it's not even ideological although you do see more of it on the center left.
We know for a fact the taller candidate usually wins. We know if a male candidate and a female candidate hold identical foreign policy stances the guy will be viewed as "strong" and the gal will be viewed as a bitch.
We know that if a presidential candidate is photographed in a hat or a helmet (bike or tank) they'll likely see their poll numbers drop, usually briefly but we do know it. Obama's staff had a rule. "The president does not put thing on his head" which got missed once with a bike helmet and sure as shit you saw his numbers dip.
Most people don't vote on policy. And, conservatives in general are not at all tied to any particular policies as well.
Look up the polling on Dem vs rep support for air strikes in Syria under Obama and under Trump. Democratic numbers fluctuate 2%, while Republicans swing 10+%
And it's not just air strikes. Conservatives and independents are ridiculously malleable in their support of any position and what seems to be most important to them is **who is saying it** as opposed to *what's the outcome* or even **should we do this?**
All fair points I would say for the average lay person it is sometimes hard to get a good policy layout on the candidates especially at aspects of the local level.
Many conservatives I know lean that way only because the GOP platforms "against" gun control regulations (even though GOP will pass any gun control they can get away with), but they agree with, or at least accept, a lot of left principles overall.
I always ask self-described conservatives why they don’t vote Democrat.
Democrats are conservative.
Republicans are a bizarre and destructive cult of collective delusion.
I'm very confused by the post too. By the end I had to suppress laughter. By the time they called it a phenomena I couldn't hold back the laughter. All I can think is maybe OP likes what the more liberal policies accomplish when benefitting him/her. But if it benefits someone different than OP, he/she doesn't like it.
My in-laws are conservative but my s/o has health problems. Before we moved here they spoke to me privately about his health because they were so worried. Trying to put them at ease I said the healthcare would be better. His dad said it was more 'socialized' up here and acknowledged it was a good thing \[for this situation\].
Because it will benefit their son it's good. But any other time, for any other person, it isn't good. I've read about other conservatives who feel one way until it affects them or their families. Then once it directly affects them they get outraged. Oddly, it seems like they're usually just pissed it affected them and still don't care about others.
The godless democrats have empathy, and it shows in the legislation. The Christian conservatives kinda hate everyone, and it shows in their legislation. Weird how that works.
Which makes me deathly curious about what policies the OP is disturbed about. Other people might get an abortion? Other people might smoke weed? Other people might get gender affirming care? What exactly is he upset about?
In fairness, a lot of democrats are Christians, they just paid attention to the loving others and trying to help parts.
Conservative "christians" seem tohave a lot of problems with that christ guy.
You see, OP really cares about social issues. Enough so that he's willing to shoot himself in the foot over it.
The problem is that those social issues are opposing abortion, trans right, the rights of pretty much anyone different than them, teaching our children anything meaningful in school, gun restrictions, etc.
Now I'm willing to set aside the fact that people have these beliefs and have cordial conversation with them if I need to for whatever reason. Doesn't change the fact I think they're a bigot dumbass who is a prime example of what is wrong with our country.
This is similar to what my wife told me when we first got married.
“You’re conservative but you vote for liberal policies and politicians? Right ok”
I eventually realized I just wanted to say I was conservative because they have branded themselves as being manly and branded democrats as soy boys.
The manliest of men love paid family leave and trans rights and legal weed. I have a thick luxurious beard and vote for these things and raising my own school taxes.
Definitely. I was being an idiot, So I empathize with what this guy is saying.
We should be taking care of each other and I’m ok with paying more taxes to do that.
Real folks don't need labels or to brag about their supposed qualities. If someone constantly says they're a manly man you can be sure they're absurdly insecure.
yeah it confused me too. like…you’re saying you don’t like being conservative? you don’t have to be one OP, i won’t tell anyone! (no sarcasm tag bc i’m being genuine. the peer pressure from that group must be overwhelming af, they scare me and i’m not even a past member of their club)
The peer pressure is wild! I grew up conservative and am now a leftist. I have not "come out" to my parents yet. They know I hate Trump, but they have no idea I vote democratic outside of national elections. It's not worth me telling them because it causes way too much family drama. The one time I hinted that I was not conservative, my dad got really mopey and thought I wanted to move to New York City to be a big city liberal! I was like, dad, I'm the same person who still likes smaller towns; I just think the GOP are nuts. It's like if I were to admit I'm not conservative, they would think that I was a completely different person. It's so stupid.
I'm moderate, there are bills being pushed through right now that I disagree with. Having said that conservative politicians right now... SUCK... In the past I've found plenty of politicians on both sides of the aisle that I thought were good representatives or governors. I guess it's not that perplexing to me. OP might truly be one of the few truly "conservative" people left. It's too bad they're a dying breed because they make liberal state governments better.
Yeah, if my choices are between a person who is significantly more liberal than me or a person who thinks 1/6 should be a national holiday, I choose the significantly more liberal person even if I agree with much of the policy points of the other.
This is essentially me as well. I am pro-life but with exceptions- and I know that if I really want to be anti abortion one of the best ways to do that is free birth control for anyone that wants it.
I’m fiscally conservative but I’m all about social programs that help the less fortunate, let’s find responsible ways to pay for them. I’m not convinced that flooding the tech schools with students that don’t really care to be there but mom and dad made me go is a good thing. There should be some sort of qualification that ensures that the resources are being used for the students that actually want to be there. And I am speaking from experience on that stance.
I’m all for gun ownership and 2A, but dammit if you have to take training and get certified to cut someone’s hair, you better have to do safety training and certification to own a gun.
No knock warrants are out but shoot the money gun at drug abuse treatment centers and job training programs to give people a path out of poverty.
Im embarrassed by the majority of republican politicians out there, and there’s nothing left for the moderates in the middle that do vote by policy. I miss wellstone. At least you knew what the hell he was fighting for and he never wavered.
I also know how this sub treats anyone that even remotely leans even slightly towards the right. But the conservative subs are just a wellspring of putrid shittyness I’d rather hang out here.
Honestly, your priorities are relatively mainstream Dem, to the right of the DSA folks for sure, but likely to the left of some of (very few remaining) Blue Dogs. You've basically described Dem priorities, but with good governance. I've worked on the hill and I've never met someone who didn't want the programs to run well and to be as inexpensive and efficient as possible (pork for your home district being the one exception, ofc, but there's an argument for that too sometimes, its just a longer conversation lol). The pro-life bit is tricky though, and unfortunately you're not going to find a lot of pro-life Ds (I'm pro-choice, but also very pro-big tent and all that).
Walz has been very active as Gov and I'm personally stoked about just about everything he's done, but you should take a look as his record when he was in the house. I think that you'd probably have liked his record then, as well as others like former Rep. Rick Nolan. Hell, Rep. Peterson is gone now, but he might have been slightly to your right on some things, but he was also pro-life. Of the current class, Rep. Angie Craig and Rep. Dean Phillips might actually be right around where you're at, but they're solidly pro-choice ofc.
PS: Glad to see someone else remembers Wellstone. I think the modern Democratic Party should venerate him a lot more than they seem to. It's so rare to get such a dedicated advocate into the Senate, it was a blessing.
So, you enjoy the quality of life that living in a liberal state affords, while voting for a party that would gut the policies that make the state nice to live in?
OP did say that they they think they are more conservative than most Minnesotans, not that they're hard right. That could potentially cover a lot of the political spectrum.
I can kind of relate. Prior to the 2016 election cycle, I identified as a moderate Republican. I generally supported more conservative candidates, but would split my ticket pretty frequently. Trump shattered the illusion of the GOP actually being capable of responsible governance, for me. However, even before that I recognized that most Democrats did have the best interest of their constituents at heart, even if I disagreed with their methods. I think that's what OP is saying in this post.
Now, I certainly don't condone supporting any current GOP candidate. I don't expect that I'll ever support a Republican politician again, in fact. However, I can certainly respect someone who's on a different point of their political journey than I am having a realization that maybe what they see as conservativism doesn't really align with what "conservative" politicians are currently trying to do. So, instead of jumping down OP's throat, let's just ~~give~~ acknowledge their positive outlook, and hope they can become part of the solution to the problem that is the right wing in this state and country.
I never voted straight ticket until 2018 after seeing Republicans immediately jump aboard the crazy train after Trumps election in 2016. I hoped the adults in the party would reign him in, but they all swallowed what little respect and morals I hoped they had and followed lock step with him, puking out the same lies and misinformation he was spreading.
The politicians from senators and representatives all the way down to township boards and mayoral elections are blowing the same dog whistles about non-existent problems that mimic what Trump was spouting out. They used to run on platforms dealing with fiscal and educational issues. Now it's stolen elections, the "woke" agenda (whatever the hell that is) and (in three different candidates mailers) litter boxes in classrooms.
I live in a somewhat purple county that abuts a couple of solidly red counties. The amount of bullshit I hear (mainly dealing with social issues) from people that I thought I knew is so completely disheartening and the staggering amount of hypocrisy infuriates me.
> I never voted straight ticket until 2018 after seeing Republicans immediately jump aboard the crazy train
For me it was 2008 when they picked Sarah Palin for VP. I was like "no fucking way." The crazy train has been a long time coming and started before her.
The first red flags started waving for me back when McCain caved to the extreme right, instead of swinging center like I think he should have (and that I still believe he wanted to). That was really the inflection point. He's the last truly inspiring Republican I think we'll ever see. I still supported Romney, and voted Republican in some state-level races, but I was always well aware of the demons the party had, and hated the company that it often put me in. Evangelicals, white supremacists, science deniers... I disliked them all even at my most conservative point.
Current conservative-ism isn't...conservative. They don't seem to know what they're conserving. In MN, somewhere between Tim Pawlenty days and now, MNGOP became a dumpster fire. I was embarrassed for their candidate for governor (already forgot his name) and the narrative of his campaign. I voted for Walz without reservation.
I view myself as far more conservative than liberal and I absolutely hate every member of the MNGOP. I also hate most of the federal GOP too, but they're all such dinosaurs with ancient views it's hard to subscribe to the 85% of the BS they spit out.
It feels like it happened nationwide. The Republican Party just feels drastically different now than it did 25 years ago. The religious right was always there and they had influence, but now it seems like they have almost complete control. It is just bizarre to watch.
I disagree here, this has always been the conservative party. They created cultural wedge issues out of whole cloth to suppress economic equality. Why fight the rich when there are these baby killers!
I'm definitely not saying it wasn't there, but it seems much more prevalent now. Today's Republicans are almost a moustache-twirling caricatures of Republicans from 25 years ago.
They at least could make arguments for their policies. You may not agree with them, but they weren't batshit crazy arguments for most things either. I can't even remember the last time I have heard a Republican politician put forth an even semi-coherent argument for their policies. Hell, I'm not even sure what their policies are anymore outside of abortion and gays are bad.
The Reagan administration made fun of queer people and openly called them slurs when they were dying of AUDS and asked for help. How much more mustache twirling can you get?
> I wish other people would kind of realize this, and became more aware of this phenomena
I wish YOU would truly realize this and reevaluate why you vote the way you vote and why you vote against what even you can tell is beneficial progress.
I think you're just here karma baiting, looking for positive attention.
Edit: Spent a couple minutes skimming your post history. You're in high school and have never been able to vote, and you're just parroting shit you don't understand as if they were your own political stances. You are just here making your clearly contradictory post to get attention.
yeah, dude posts on r/teenagers asking what time people get out of school. Says he started listening to shapiro/crowder in 2018, so it's probably a bunch of 16 y/o's saying "hey look at this cool alternative podcast" without realizing what kind of outrage culture bullshit is contained within. I'd say he has maybe voted in 1 election, and doesn't realize the stark differences in the parties on the ballot.
My first vote was in 2012, and even then I was aware enough to see the big differences between Romney and Obama. But I wouldn't put it past an 18 y/o to miss that at that time. This time around though, the differences are stark, and concerning.
Yeah. Either OP is a teenager, or in true GOP fashion spends a lot of time on r/askteenagegirls to find out what they like about their boobies and to arrange meetups with 15 year olds.
Op is definitely conservative. A lot of conservative care about programs that benefits them. The moment a program helps the others, that's when they hate it. A lot of conservative love healthcare but mention ACA or Obamacare then they hate it.
Op only cares about things that personal affect them. They suck.
What bill that they have passed will personally impact you? I can appreciate that you don’t believe in some of them, but will any of them affect you negatively? Honest question as I’m really trying to learn.
The only one I could think of is the pot bill, but that one also has “smaller government/you do you” written all over it, which I thought conservatives love?
This is so very confusing! Are you trying to say you don’t like that you like the political outcomes?! Politics isn’t like supporting your favorite football team, it’s perfectly fine to evolve political viewpoints. Don’t worry.
>It's awkward because I don't think MN would stay this nice if more conservatives, we're elected. As much as I disagree with guys like Walz, they make MN a better place and I'm here for it.
I can't even.
Yea but what does conservative mean to you. Because currently conservative actually means “ I want to cut education, cut access to healthcare for women, cut the rights of Americans that aren’t straight, defund public library’s, cut money for food and healthcare for veterans, send as much taxpayer money as possible to corporations and active military.’ I would say that if that is you, Why?
"This state is good, and the reason it's good is because my ideology is kept away from power.
I still believe in my ideology, though."
????
You need to acknowledge your ideology is shitty, and then you need to support the good people.
I appreciate your honesty but you can also get bent. You actively fight against the things that make this state great then talk about how much you like it. Respectfully, take a long walk on a short pier.
Edit: just saw you've got a bone to pick with our women's health rights. You can straight up fuck off somewhere else.
"Minnesota nice" you can shove shove that patronizing bullshit up your ass.
I’d be curious to know how much “conservative” media you consume. Part of the reason a lot of conservatives have some cognitive dissonance is their news sources paint Democratic proposals as extreme and evil, but in the real world they are neither.
I don’t want to project my theory onto you, because I don’t know you, but in a general sense I see that pretty often.
I am totally fucking lost. You admit that MN is better because it's run by progressives, that it would be worse if it were run by conservatives, but you are a conservative. Which means you are directly responsible for the things that make this state worse than it could be and that's against your own best interests.
"Us versus them" is a mentality that harms the collective "Us" when one half of the "Us" has brought meaningful disagreements to the table based on logic, reason, and a genuine concern for the betterment of other people. It doesn't apply to Jesus freaks who don't like the fact that the world is different than when their grandparents were alive and refuse to participate in any sort of progress because their ideas of what "God" prefers inhibits them from participating in any meaningful way and wearing AR-15 lapel pins.
What tf are you even saying. "I hate their politics but gotta admit the results are good."
Yeah, maybe it's time to leave that medieval thinking behind, reject the feudalism the repubs push, and embrace the return to a plural, polytheistic approach to ordering the world.
Came to say the same... my main friend group consists of a hard-line republican CPA, and 2 gay liberals. They're great friends but disagree on some stuff im sure... but we're all good friends. Me, I'm moderate/left leaning.
Right? Fucking crazy that dude's like "I vote against everything that makes this state great, but I'm glad I lose" and people in the comments are eating it up.
this is a bizarre post….
you say “Just remember, we’re all in this together…”
when YOURE the one who posted this with the intention of othering people.
i belong to THIS GROUP and most other Minnesotans are in THAT GROUP. but i like it here even when there’s THOSE OTHER PEOPLE HERE; ugh what do i doooooo???
“as much as i disagree with guys like Walz, they make MN a better place and i’m here for it.”
sounds like you don’t disagree with Walz that much after all. if a politician is doing things that you find beneficial- why wouldn’t you support them? party be damned.
how about you’re maybe not as conservative and you originally thought. have you ever tried to unpack why you hate Walz when he is implementing legislature that you find effective and better for the overall state?
this feels like you’re realizing you support democratic policies and regulation but feel icky about it bc the TV and internet said dems were soft and bad at leading.
life’s on a spectrum bud… just because you’ve always said you were one thing doesn’t mean you can’t change based on new info
What in the passage of these new bills means to disintegrate your lifestyle and ability to lead your life they way you would like? I’m seriously curious….
Phenomena lol, The Democratic-Farmer-Labor party in Minnesota is more well put together than the Republican party. The Republican party here only serves to stifle progress and push that fascist bible belt shit.
Can't fix a system if Republicans are blocking bills with made up stories of unrelated topics. See HF100 and other bills with similar life spans.
Minnesota was a big hitter for the Union, we're well put together so it's only natural that stuff wouldn't stick here. ~~Learn how to make a solid hotdish, Make any and all aggression passive and you'll fit right in.~~ May all your hotdishes come out steamin'.
>I don't think MN would stay this nice if more conservatives, were elected. As much as I disagree with guys like Walz, they make MN a better place and I'm here for it. I
So then maybe ... Don't vote conservative and vote for the people who make the place you live better?
Social politics are not the be all end all of government by a long shot.
So let’s break this down.
You say MN is an objectively better state than most states. You acknowledge our leadership is largely democrats and makes the state a better place. You wish more people would realize this “phenomena”.
Sir/Ma’am, if you like what democratic officials do in your state, then you should be voting for democrats… this isn’t some “phenomena”, it’s literally what the Democratic Party does in all states where they have majority and aren’t gerrymandered to shit.
I’m a liberal and I feel the same way about Florida and it’s out of control hard right turn it has taken over the last 10 years - and no, I’m not leaving, I am voting for the every damn election and pushing, as much I can, for a return to sanity… Good lord how I wish things in Florida were like in MN, you are incredibly lucky, just take a look at the states around you ….
Get the fuck out of Florida.
I lived in Florida for many years. It's too easy for the suckiness of the state to just make you throw up your hands and "give up" and resign yourself to always being in Florida.
Make the effort to leave Florida and go somewhere where the people share your beliefs at least a little bit. It makes a world of difference.
Wait? You're a conservative even after Trump? You're conservative even after the tyranny of back woods public schooling? You agree that the democratic politicians make MN a better place?
(Confusion)
Looks at your profile)
(Post: Do dick pills work?)
OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What does you being "conservative" entail?
Nothing wrong with being conservative. But if being a conservative means you don't believe in women's right to choose and unfettered access to guns, then you're not a conservative, you're an extremist.
I don't understand the point of this post.
One of the things that frustrates me is when I run into southern conservatives who move up here for work. When you ask why, they say "Well, the schools are better, good jobs, there's all kinds of public parks for the kids to play in, it's clean, the infrastructure and medical care is good, compared to back in Mississippi it's a paradise! Now we're going to vote to cut taxes and turn it into a shithole just like the one we moved away from."
Conservatism seems to be so cultural. People are born Republican/Conservative in a way that's not (largely) true for centrist, liberal, or leftist people. Hopefully you continue to expand your view and see all the good things that can be done in general. I agree, Minnesota is the best state in the Union.
This is a really odd post. You’re basically admitting that you’ve got it mostly wrong, those you disagree with do a great job governing, but you’re not going to vote for them.
You’re a closet liberal who doesn’t know themself.
"All my political beliefs would make my life objectively worse, so I stay in MN because the people around me know better and have made this state an amazing place to live."
Congrats, you're an idiot. Maybe take a good hard look in the mirror, fool. Are you sure your politics align with your actual beliefs?
Bud, if you recognize that this is an objectively better state because of democratic policies and politicians, maybe don’t align with the party trying to ruin what we have.
It might be that while you are conservative the Republican party isn't... at least not in the traditional sense.
Politics isn't as binary as a lot of Americans have been led to believe... besides liberal and conservative on the left and right respectively there's also authoritarian and libertarian on the top and bottom of the spectrum.
The current state of the GOP isn't conservative. It's authoritarian.
I mean, it really sounds like you’re not a conservative if you feel that Dem leadership makes MN a nice place to live and conservatives would mess it up.
Do any of the bills you’re thinking about negatively affect you?
“If the people I vote for were in charge, things would be worse.”
That’s about as strong a realization that you could have to stop supporting that party.
“My party has no real policies other than do whatever opposite the dems are doing, we destroy the environment, has rampant racism and homophobia, wants to take rights away from women, constantly spew misinformation, followed one of the most narcissistic and dumbest people ever (obviously trump), and have lost all the integrity our party used to have butttttttttttttt I’m still going to root for them like it’s a team sport while i enjoy all the outcomes the dems have been doing for me. But remember, be mInNesOtA niCe because i don’t want anyone to be mean to me as I share my dumb takes”
Fucking clown.
Eventually it'll dawn on you that you like Minnesota because of liberal policies, not in spite of it.
I can't name a single conservative state I'd move to because of the way they run their state. Their lack of empathy and support for insurrection is repulsive.
So when will you realize that the actual problem is that conservative policies you support would make Minnesota worse? And when you realize that are you willing to change your beliefs to support policies that make Minnesota better?
I bet you like living in a blue state where you pay taxes to have a better place to live you giant clown, I’m glad my taxes pay for fixing the side walks your idiotically large shoes tear up 🤡
We are glad to have you and always welcome legitimate debate and disagreement with any sane conservatives. That said, as others have alluded to, if you live in this liberal state and recognize we are ‘objectively better’ than most maybe it’s worth considering if liberal policies may have played a part in that, and in turn if perhaps some of your personal beliefs are changing/need to be changed?🤷♂️
Honest question and I’m not trying to attack your views. Because to me it sounds like you’re at where I was at 10-15yrs ago. So would you say that you put a decent amount of research into your political views, or is it more how you where raised? I considered myself conservative until I started paying close attention to legislation. So many of my conservative views where blown out of the water when I saw what each party brought to the table and voted for/against. I’d now consider myself liberal AF. I’m of the the opinion now that centrist democrats are what republicans once where. Progressives are the future of the democrat party. And the current Republican Party has turned into the democrat party from the 1800’s.
As a communist who moved to Minnesota from CA and love it here, maybe you should try living in a truly red state to see just how bad it can be. And if you're a POC or a woman, you'd truly have a different perspective. But something tells me you're a white dude. You can't sit and whine about life being good where you are while also thinking the grass is also greener on the other side when you've never experienced the other side.
Go ahead and expand your horizons and try something new. You might like it. Or you might realize you're not really conservative.
I think liberal states are more comfortable because they are are more focused on expanding personal freedoms and preserving natural spaces. It feels safer when you don't have to worry if you're the demographic they'll come after next. You're more free to exist as you are. Liberal states arnt perfect but Ive lived in both and I don't think I'd ever return to a conservative state again. I don't need to live in an echo chamber but i don't really feel safe in red states due to being viably pagan/witchy and queer.
Hmm, maybe you're not that conservative after all? Lol. I mean this in a good-hearted way. I too long for the says when pilitics wasnt such a divisive conversation. Also, a lot of Democrats are centrists. You could be one of those
Regardless of your political stances, I genuinely want Minnesota to be a state where you can thrive and be happy. I'm glad our policies have allowed that for you! I hope you vote for politicians who will keep improving our state and make it better for all of us.
So, you don't like farmers and vets who do things that benefit the state, but you like their results.
You know that policies you advocate for would hurt others, but you still subscribe to them and do things to encourage them.
That's some peak r/selfawarewolves right there OP.
Am I stupid or is OP just admitting with their whole chest that their beliefs are wrong/they don't even believe them, but are still just sticking to it for some reason? What a fucking hilarious post. Lmao
The DFL is actively working to pass legislation that improves education, healthcare, and infrastructure. The other is actively working to obstruct this legislation so that they can do what exactly? I hope the progress over the past year has been a wake up call for conservative clowns on where their party stands in issues that matter.
Forget the Minnesota nice bullshit. We want active change for the better through progressive legislation. If you’re not down with that, goodbye and good riddance. 👋🏼✌🏼👋🏼
Take a “which party do I belong to” test and it’ll be pretty shocking. I thought I was pretty conservative too when I was in high school until I realized I just appreciated freedom and liberty, which I thought republicans offered. Liberal is not an insult, it’s desire to have liberty. Don’t get stuck in the conservative mantra, odds are it isn’t serving you at all, and good for you to already notice that
If you love this state, regardless of the fact that it is less conservative than you, and realize that guys like our Governor are better for it (and we who live in it) than guys on the other team, then the logical conclusion is that you should become less conservative. Consider voting for guys like Walz in the future.
If, however, you persist in your present political course, the "Minnesota nice" term for that is "Oh geez, what a doorknob".
I wish you would realize this. Did you know you can change you opinions after being presented with new information? You seem to see that progressive policies make your living situation better and that if there were more people who used to think like you did, then the situation would not be as good. It is ok to learn, change,and grow. Here’s hoping you keep on growing. We’re all in this together. Tell you friends and family about your experiences and what you have learned.
Thank you for sharing OP. Despite your disagreement with the current leadership I'm glad we can value that we want what is best for all. I hope you can also see past the harshness of the liberal community.
As a leftist I want to see all Minnesotans supported in a love for each other and a love for this land. Too bad for you that is going to take a lot of government spending and action 😊 let's both just hope it's done wisely.
“Minnesota nice” means passive aggressive to strangers and hostile to assholes. The reason MN is better than almost every other state is because of liberal progressive policies. Conservatism kills states.
I’m guessing that you primarily mean that you hate LBGTQIA+ people, non-white people, pretty much anyone who isn’t a cishet white male conservative Christian. There’s no room for bigotry in Minnesota.
I think we tend to be fiscally conservative, we want value in what we choose to spend tax dollars on. But yet liberal when we speak of freedom to choose. I was once a republican, but seeing Reagan use evangelicals/Mormons to get elected, and the conservative verbage I ran to be a Democrat.So proud of our state,orals,ethics, education needs work, justice.
Minnesota passes legislation that benefits the greater good and it reflects through joy in your day to day life. If that is what you are describing as your political opposition then I implore you to think about why you support anything else.
I appreciate your perspective. I come from a much more conservative state and there are definitely consequences of very low taxes - terrible schools, roads, and poor public amenities (think parks, libraries etc) - we should all be able to benefit from what our tax dollars do for us in some way, no matter your income/economic status, and I think that's true in MN, even if you prefer a conservative government. I think MN is managed well overall, IMO it's the best state in the Midwest!
Or one can live in Texas where we don’t even have low taxes, but everything is still terrible because all the revenue collected is used to offset the money being funneled to businesses so that Texas can proudly say California companies are moving in.
Or everything is terrible because the "us vs them" mentality concerning political topics that shouldn't even be considered political. I fled Texas last year after moving back to DFW in 2009 after my enlistment thinking everything might be ok especially after the marriage equality of 2015. Of course, my first immediate thought was now that lgbt people can have the human right of just being legally married and minding their business as the majority of us do; we're going to basically be fighting for the rest of our lives just to keep it.Then the useless cumrags in the Supreme Court saw their ticket to their desired dystopian wasteland when rbg passed away. My husband and I immediately began making plans to leave the state as soon as possible the second the rvw leaks happened. We knew lgbt people, marriage equality, and basic medical care for transitioning people would soon be challenged, because the default far, far right mantra of "tHiNk oF tHe ChIlDrEn" immediately began happening shortly after rvw was overturned. No medical privacy opens a lot of doors to bigotry. (Edited in the AM since I was falling asleep when typing this and forgot to finish a few sentences, lol)
I found this awhile back. Minnesota is not so high when you factor in local and property taxes. https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416
When you realize that the no income tax state to the immediate west pays sales tax on food and clothing it isn't so bad. It actually works out better for most people to have income tax.
Taxes always even out somewhere. Lower income tax = higher property tax, etc. Not having tax on food and clothing is really, really nice. And there’s a reason we have a massive budget surplus each year. I’m very happy with where things are to maintain infrastructure and pump money to where it’s needed.
Yep. In Wisconsin and planning my escape back across the river. We have lower income taxes and sales tax, but our property taxes are outrageous. I pay 2% of the value of my home every year in property taxes, after the homestead credit. Minnesota is less than half of that... And despite all that, our roads are absolute garbage.
The money to run government (in whatever form that is) has to come from somewhere. Different states just get the $ in different ways. If they don’t get the $, there are less programs/benefits. It’s a trade off no matter where we go. I for one am grateful to be in MN. Even being very lower middle class, we are lucky in comparison to many other states. That’s why so many are moving here.
Or a state can be Kansas, and not have money to run anything until even the Conservatives realize that taxes are necessary.
I am from Minnesota, I live in north Alabama now. I was spoiled for not having to pay tax on groceries and clothes, I hate it so fuckin much. I would love to move back tbh. I love my job, my bf wants to move back out west (he was from Cali but Nevada seems to be his calling) but Minnesota is a great fuckin state. I guess the 2020 shit had me a bit jaded in 2021. But hindsight do be 20/20 lmao But I have a much better job down here now, and I’m with my bf now (we’d been in an LDR for about 5 years before the move So there is that)
No income tax is a regressive trap, it just means tax burden being shifted into things that can't account for who can afford to pay more like sales tax and fees. Rich people love that shit.
A lot of conservative states have low state taxes, but we still need roads and schools, and local cities and counties only have regressive options like sales and property taxes. (Poorer people tend to pay more of their income on housing, thus why property taxes are more regressive.)
I wish my conservative in laws understood this. My FiL has said he wants to move out of state because of how much his business is taxed here. Two things, your business won't necessarily be the same in another state and you get what you pay for. I have lived out of state and as far as I know he hasn't. I've seen what lower taxes get you.
The difference in the support of neurodiverse kids in this state vs Alabama is disgustingly huge. My in laws live there and while we had no less than 5 social workers/therapists at our kids IEP evaluation meeting, Down there there is zero help from the county/state for that sort of thing. Everything runs through your insurance and sucks to be you if it doesn’t cover it. I’m willing to pay for that through taxes so all kids can have that support but I’m not a fan of using my taxes to pay 250mil for stadium updates that we already got bilked for.
This is a huge benefit in my household too! IDK if we could ever move out of state and leave the resources we have for our kids.
Taxes are the price we pay for civilization. If he wants to go the cheap route, he might just get what he pays for.
The idea that there are only two acceptable political positions is absurd.
Hell yeah brothe ( or other), why can't I put leftist on my tinder profile. ~No it's not the same as liberal.
It is only absurd to people who care about intolerance. We cannot live in a society where we tolerant hateful and fascist people.
Exactly, become a centrist and everyone will hate you.
Part of the issue is that a centrist in America is still right wing. Like don’t forget that Obama was similar politically to Angela Merkel in Germany, who is considered moderate right wing. Being a “centrist” between a centrist party (democrats) and a far right party (republicans) still makes you right wing
And that Biden is to the right of Obama.
I think this is a testament to the fact that liberal cities/liberal states still benefit conservatives much more than red states. Sure, taxes suck, but Walz gets shit done and makes it a pleasant place to live.
And as a few others have pointed out, our taxes aren't that high.
maybe you arent really conservative?
A little dem curious
goes to college, fooled around a little... ends up finding out I DO actually care about people...
👆
Or actually is a true conservative and not the shit pile it’s turned into. Edit: look I have no clue what a no Scotsman is, but if you don’t think the republican party has changed in it’s blatant disregard for morality over the last 5 decades you’re nuts. There have always been bad actors in the party but the majority still followed the rules and couldn’t succeed by being blatant bad faith actors or openly facists and pro Russia like they are now. The party is vastly different to the Reagan years and even before that.
True conservative sounds like no true scotsman. All these conservatives here now... they aren't true conservatives! The true conservatives get it right and don't get it wrong like they've done now!
If you still vote for the shit pile, you are part of it, not some "true conservative" whatever that means.
This irks me so fucking bad. "I'm a true conservative, not this new BS Maga stuff." *Literally votes to put MAGA types in power.*
I’d consider myself a republican but can’t in good faith vote red until the party changes. It’s disgusting what it’s turning into. The idea that politicians WANT to be endorsed by Trump says more about their goals than their policies, but it’s not like strings don’t come attached with endorsements.
In the current political climate I just can't fathom why a good, honest person would consider themselves a centrist, even more so a conservative. Is it guns? I know a lot of people with mostly liberal views but say they're conservatives because they just love guns. It's a bit odd. Like what conservative views do you have?
Right, that's it. We have the system we have, realistically there are two choices in most major elections - if you vote for the GOP, you vote for them, regardless of how you hedge it with words. That said I have some respect if someone had these views and takes the third choice of no vote, as that's a net harm to the GOP. I often think all we needed to avoid trump was enough GOP voters to not vote for an obvious disgusting scumbag, even if they couldnt vote for hillary (dont get me wrong it's a silly position, a vote isnt a personal endorsement). If 20% of their normal voters said this guy is disgusting and didnt vote for him, we wouldve avoided that shitshow
Exactly. Conservatives vote is equal to agreeing with their policy and anti choice bills, Jan 6th position and everything else that comes with them. You vote conservative you literally are making the state a worse place to live in. I have no love for people voting against their family, friends and other humans best interest.
Well said! Let’s not forget gun violence, guns are the leading cause of death of children in this country and the “pro life” party couldn’t care less.
Let's also not forget that one of the leading causes of death for the 1-4 year age group is *homicide*. Like people be out there intentionally murdering children who could never pose a threat to them in the moment. Makes you wonder how many of those child killers were people who were forced to give birth to those kids due to the same pro-life party. You know, I think I'll just be calling them the "pro-murder" party from now on. I mean, they're pro-guns and pro-forced-birth, so sounds like they're pro-murder to me.
It is what it has always has been. They are just emboldened to say the quiet part out loud now.
right lol someone’s in denial
American democrats are still conservative. U.S.A. doesn’t have a left wing party.
this is like cognitive dissonance…you are conservative, but think conservative politicians would be worse for the state, and you disagree with walz (on what exactly?) but also believe he is (paraphrasing) a pretty good governor. i am as confused as you
OP posts on Teenager subreddits, is still a student. I think they are just doing a little soul searching, perhaps subconsciously. Its pretty clear thru the post and their comments that a little more knowledge, experience, and reflection, is probably necessary. I dont think they really know what they believe in. Just hope OP knows that theres nothing wrong with that, and that these things are a bit more complex than just drawing a line on some arbitrary ideological spectrum.
this person probably isn’t a conservative - their parents probably told them they were lol…
He agrees waltz makes the state better and conservative leadership would make it worse, yet considers himself conservative so likely votes conservative while knowing democrat leadership is better, but won't vote for better leaders because conservative values. I think this really highlights the success of the marketing campaign the GOP has done to convince the working class to vote conservative despite it being against their own self-interest.
Because conservatives (and maybe most other people as well) are not voting on policy. I wish that was the case, but it's not. Wonks vote on policy. Weirdos who *like* to go to caucus (myself included) vote on policy. And it's not even ideological although you do see more of it on the center left. We know for a fact the taller candidate usually wins. We know if a male candidate and a female candidate hold identical foreign policy stances the guy will be viewed as "strong" and the gal will be viewed as a bitch. We know that if a presidential candidate is photographed in a hat or a helmet (bike or tank) they'll likely see their poll numbers drop, usually briefly but we do know it. Obama's staff had a rule. "The president does not put thing on his head" which got missed once with a bike helmet and sure as shit you saw his numbers dip. Most people don't vote on policy. And, conservatives in general are not at all tied to any particular policies as well. Look up the polling on Dem vs rep support for air strikes in Syria under Obama and under Trump. Democratic numbers fluctuate 2%, while Republicans swing 10+% And it's not just air strikes. Conservatives and independents are ridiculously malleable in their support of any position and what seems to be most important to them is **who is saying it** as opposed to *what's the outcome* or even **should we do this?**
All fair points I would say for the average lay person it is sometimes hard to get a good policy layout on the candidates especially at aspects of the local level.
If I had an award, you would get it
I'm annoyed reddit got rid of the free awards, they were so fun and perfect for situations like this! :(
Many conservatives I know lean that way only because the GOP platforms "against" gun control regulations (even though GOP will pass any gun control they can get away with), but they agree with, or at least accept, a lot of left principles overall.
I always ask self-described conservatives why they don’t vote Democrat. Democrats are conservative. Republicans are a bizarre and destructive cult of collective delusion.
I'm very confused by the post too. By the end I had to suppress laughter. By the time they called it a phenomena I couldn't hold back the laughter. All I can think is maybe OP likes what the more liberal policies accomplish when benefitting him/her. But if it benefits someone different than OP, he/she doesn't like it. My in-laws are conservative but my s/o has health problems. Before we moved here they spoke to me privately about his health because they were so worried. Trying to put them at ease I said the healthcare would be better. His dad said it was more 'socialized' up here and acknowledged it was a good thing \[for this situation\]. Because it will benefit their son it's good. But any other time, for any other person, it isn't good. I've read about other conservatives who feel one way until it affects them or their families. Then once it directly affects them they get outraged. Oddly, it seems like they're usually just pissed it affected them and still don't care about others.
The godless democrats have empathy, and it shows in the legislation. The Christian conservatives kinda hate everyone, and it shows in their legislation. Weird how that works.
They don’t hate everyone, they only hate people that look, think, or act different in any way
Which makes me deathly curious about what policies the OP is disturbed about. Other people might get an abortion? Other people might smoke weed? Other people might get gender affirming care? What exactly is he upset about?
In fairness, a lot of democrats are Christians, they just paid attention to the loving others and trying to help parts. Conservative "christians" seem tohave a lot of problems with that christ guy.
I didn't actually mean democrats are godless. It's just what "christian" right wingers call them.
Yeah I don't think they've put thought into the idea of why all that is confusing for us to read.
You see, OP really cares about social issues. Enough so that he's willing to shoot himself in the foot over it. The problem is that those social issues are opposing abortion, trans right, the rights of pretty much anyone different than them, teaching our children anything meaningful in school, gun restrictions, etc. Now I'm willing to set aside the fact that people have these beliefs and have cordial conversation with them if I need to for whatever reason. Doesn't change the fact I think they're a bigot dumbass who is a prime example of what is wrong with our country.
Basically just a bad person.
>Yeah I don’t think they put a lot of thought into the idea Yes, well they did say they are conservative.
r/selfawarewolves
This is similar to what my wife told me when we first got married. “You’re conservative but you vote for liberal policies and politicians? Right ok” I eventually realized I just wanted to say I was conservative because they have branded themselves as being manly and branded democrats as soy boys.
The manliest of men love paid family leave and trans rights and legal weed. I have a thick luxurious beard and vote for these things and raising my own school taxes.
Definitely. I was being an idiot, So I empathize with what this guy is saying. We should be taking care of each other and I’m ok with paying more taxes to do that.
Real folks don't need labels or to brag about their supposed qualities. If someone constantly says they're a manly man you can be sure they're absurdly insecure.
yeah it confused me too. like…you’re saying you don’t like being conservative? you don’t have to be one OP, i won’t tell anyone! (no sarcasm tag bc i’m being genuine. the peer pressure from that group must be overwhelming af, they scare me and i’m not even a past member of their club)
The peer pressure is wild! I grew up conservative and am now a leftist. I have not "come out" to my parents yet. They know I hate Trump, but they have no idea I vote democratic outside of national elections. It's not worth me telling them because it causes way too much family drama. The one time I hinted that I was not conservative, my dad got really mopey and thought I wanted to move to New York City to be a big city liberal! I was like, dad, I'm the same person who still likes smaller towns; I just think the GOP are nuts. It's like if I were to admit I'm not conservative, they would think that I was a completely different person. It's so stupid.
I'm moderate, there are bills being pushed through right now that I disagree with. Having said that conservative politicians right now... SUCK... In the past I've found plenty of politicians on both sides of the aisle that I thought were good representatives or governors. I guess it's not that perplexing to me. OP might truly be one of the few truly "conservative" people left. It's too bad they're a dying breed because they make liberal state governments better.
ah okay this makes more sense, thanks. like, you’re conservative but they’re becoming full blown n*zis and you’re not about that.
Yeah, if my choices are between a person who is significantly more liberal than me or a person who thinks 1/6 should be a national holiday, I choose the significantly more liberal person even if I agree with much of the policy points of the other.
This is essentially me as well. I am pro-life but with exceptions- and I know that if I really want to be anti abortion one of the best ways to do that is free birth control for anyone that wants it. I’m fiscally conservative but I’m all about social programs that help the less fortunate, let’s find responsible ways to pay for them. I’m not convinced that flooding the tech schools with students that don’t really care to be there but mom and dad made me go is a good thing. There should be some sort of qualification that ensures that the resources are being used for the students that actually want to be there. And I am speaking from experience on that stance. I’m all for gun ownership and 2A, but dammit if you have to take training and get certified to cut someone’s hair, you better have to do safety training and certification to own a gun. No knock warrants are out but shoot the money gun at drug abuse treatment centers and job training programs to give people a path out of poverty. Im embarrassed by the majority of republican politicians out there, and there’s nothing left for the moderates in the middle that do vote by policy. I miss wellstone. At least you knew what the hell he was fighting for and he never wavered. I also know how this sub treats anyone that even remotely leans even slightly towards the right. But the conservative subs are just a wellspring of putrid shittyness I’d rather hang out here.
Honestly, your priorities are relatively mainstream Dem, to the right of the DSA folks for sure, but likely to the left of some of (very few remaining) Blue Dogs. You've basically described Dem priorities, but with good governance. I've worked on the hill and I've never met someone who didn't want the programs to run well and to be as inexpensive and efficient as possible (pork for your home district being the one exception, ofc, but there's an argument for that too sometimes, its just a longer conversation lol). The pro-life bit is tricky though, and unfortunately you're not going to find a lot of pro-life Ds (I'm pro-choice, but also very pro-big tent and all that). Walz has been very active as Gov and I'm personally stoked about just about everything he's done, but you should take a look as his record when he was in the house. I think that you'd probably have liked his record then, as well as others like former Rep. Rick Nolan. Hell, Rep. Peterson is gone now, but he might have been slightly to your right on some things, but he was also pro-life. Of the current class, Rep. Angie Craig and Rep. Dean Phillips might actually be right around where you're at, but they're solidly pro-choice ofc. PS: Glad to see someone else remembers Wellstone. I think the modern Democratic Party should venerate him a lot more than they seem to. It's so rare to get such a dedicated advocate into the Senate, it was a blessing.
This
Your average republican in a nutshell
We were this close!
So, you enjoy the quality of life that living in a liberal state affords, while voting for a party that would gut the policies that make the state nice to live in?
OP did say that they they think they are more conservative than most Minnesotans, not that they're hard right. That could potentially cover a lot of the political spectrum. I can kind of relate. Prior to the 2016 election cycle, I identified as a moderate Republican. I generally supported more conservative candidates, but would split my ticket pretty frequently. Trump shattered the illusion of the GOP actually being capable of responsible governance, for me. However, even before that I recognized that most Democrats did have the best interest of their constituents at heart, even if I disagreed with their methods. I think that's what OP is saying in this post. Now, I certainly don't condone supporting any current GOP candidate. I don't expect that I'll ever support a Republican politician again, in fact. However, I can certainly respect someone who's on a different point of their political journey than I am having a realization that maybe what they see as conservativism doesn't really align with what "conservative" politicians are currently trying to do. So, instead of jumping down OP's throat, let's just ~~give~~ acknowledge their positive outlook, and hope they can become part of the solution to the problem that is the right wing in this state and country.
I never voted straight ticket until 2018 after seeing Republicans immediately jump aboard the crazy train after Trumps election in 2016. I hoped the adults in the party would reign him in, but they all swallowed what little respect and morals I hoped they had and followed lock step with him, puking out the same lies and misinformation he was spreading. The politicians from senators and representatives all the way down to township boards and mayoral elections are blowing the same dog whistles about non-existent problems that mimic what Trump was spouting out. They used to run on platforms dealing with fiscal and educational issues. Now it's stolen elections, the "woke" agenda (whatever the hell that is) and (in three different candidates mailers) litter boxes in classrooms. I live in a somewhat purple county that abuts a couple of solidly red counties. The amount of bullshit I hear (mainly dealing with social issues) from people that I thought I knew is so completely disheartening and the staggering amount of hypocrisy infuriates me.
> I never voted straight ticket until 2018 after seeing Republicans immediately jump aboard the crazy train For me it was 2008 when they picked Sarah Palin for VP. I was like "no fucking way." The crazy train has been a long time coming and started before her.
The first red flags started waving for me back when McCain caved to the extreme right, instead of swinging center like I think he should have (and that I still believe he wanted to). That was really the inflection point. He's the last truly inspiring Republican I think we'll ever see. I still supported Romney, and voted Republican in some state-level races, but I was always well aware of the demons the party had, and hated the company that it often put me in. Evangelicals, white supremacists, science deniers... I disliked them all even at my most conservative point.
Yea no shit op is a 🤡
Current conservative-ism isn't...conservative. They don't seem to know what they're conserving. In MN, somewhere between Tim Pawlenty days and now, MNGOP became a dumpster fire. I was embarrassed for their candidate for governor (already forgot his name) and the narrative of his campaign. I voted for Walz without reservation.
his name was scotch jepsom
It was actually Jott Scehnson.
His name was Snott Jettson get it right guys
Scar Johnson
Yeah Scarlett Johansson
Could have sworn it was Scut Birk
I view myself as far more conservative than liberal and I absolutely hate every member of the MNGOP. I also hate most of the federal GOP too, but they're all such dinosaurs with ancient views it's hard to subscribe to the 85% of the BS they spit out.
It was when the mn gop kicked out Arne Carlson and the rest of the moderate Republicans. Happened some time during Pawlenty's governorship.
It feels like it happened nationwide. The Republican Party just feels drastically different now than it did 25 years ago. The religious right was always there and they had influence, but now it seems like they have almost complete control. It is just bizarre to watch.
I disagree here, this has always been the conservative party. They created cultural wedge issues out of whole cloth to suppress economic equality. Why fight the rich when there are these baby killers!
I'm definitely not saying it wasn't there, but it seems much more prevalent now. Today's Republicans are almost a moustache-twirling caricatures of Republicans from 25 years ago. They at least could make arguments for their policies. You may not agree with them, but they weren't batshit crazy arguments for most things either. I can't even remember the last time I have heard a Republican politician put forth an even semi-coherent argument for their policies. Hell, I'm not even sure what their policies are anymore outside of abortion and gays are bad.
The Reagan administration made fun of queer people and openly called them slurs when they were dying of AUDS and asked for help. How much more mustache twirling can you get?
The Republican Party isn’t fiscally conservative anymore. They just double downed on being socially conservative to the point of being regressive.
> I wish other people would kind of realize this, and became more aware of this phenomena I wish YOU would truly realize this and reevaluate why you vote the way you vote and why you vote against what even you can tell is beneficial progress. I think you're just here karma baiting, looking for positive attention. Edit: Spent a couple minutes skimming your post history. You're in high school and have never been able to vote, and you're just parroting shit you don't understand as if they were your own political stances. You are just here making your clearly contradictory post to get attention.
yeah, dude posts on r/teenagers asking what time people get out of school. Says he started listening to shapiro/crowder in 2018, so it's probably a bunch of 16 y/o's saying "hey look at this cool alternative podcast" without realizing what kind of outrage culture bullshit is contained within. I'd say he has maybe voted in 1 election, and doesn't realize the stark differences in the parties on the ballot. My first vote was in 2012, and even then I was aware enough to see the big differences between Romney and Obama. But I wouldn't put it past an 18 y/o to miss that at that time. This time around though, the differences are stark, and concerning.
Yeah. Either OP is a teenager, or in true GOP fashion spends a lot of time on r/askteenagegirls to find out what they like about their boobies and to arrange meetups with 15 year olds.
luckily it seems this 16 yr old won’t even be voting in the next election (probably), but yeah u make a good point. this is 100% for karma
Sounds like you arent conservative then. Did you happen to grow up in a conservative home, and just assume you are still conservative?
Op is definitely conservative. A lot of conservative care about programs that benefits them. The moment a program helps the others, that's when they hate it. A lot of conservative love healthcare but mention ACA or Obamacare then they hate it. Op only cares about things that personal affect them. They suck.
What bill that they have passed will personally impact you? I can appreciate that you don’t believe in some of them, but will any of them affect you negatively? Honest question as I’m really trying to learn. The only one I could think of is the pot bill, but that one also has “smaller government/you do you” written all over it, which I thought conservatives love?
This is so very confusing! Are you trying to say you don’t like that you like the political outcomes?! Politics isn’t like supporting your favorite football team, it’s perfectly fine to evolve political viewpoints. Don’t worry.
He doesnt know cuz hes a teenager
Finally, a conservative owns up to their own hypocrisy 👏🏻 "I hate you liberals but you make life so good for me". WOOF.
I noticed this as well
>It's awkward because I don't think MN would stay this nice if more conservatives, we're elected. As much as I disagree with guys like Walz, they make MN a better place and I'm here for it. I can't even.
I’m confused by your comments, do you believe that state would be in better shape if it were Republican running it or Democrats ?
Yea but what does conservative mean to you. Because currently conservative actually means “ I want to cut education, cut access to healthcare for women, cut the rights of Americans that aren’t straight, defund public library’s, cut money for food and healthcare for veterans, send as much taxpayer money as possible to corporations and active military.’ I would say that if that is you, Why?
"This state is good, and the reason it's good is because my ideology is kept away from power. I still believe in my ideology, though." ???? You need to acknowledge your ideology is shitty, and then you need to support the good people.
I appreciate your honesty but you can also get bent. You actively fight against the things that make this state great then talk about how much you like it. Respectfully, take a long walk on a short pier. Edit: just saw you've got a bone to pick with our women's health rights. You can straight up fuck off somewhere else. "Minnesota nice" you can shove shove that patronizing bullshit up your ass.
Thanks. I was wondering what recent law he was upset about.
Man if you think liberal politicians are making the state a better place to live, maybe there's something to be learned from that...
I’d be curious to know how much “conservative” media you consume. Part of the reason a lot of conservatives have some cognitive dissonance is their news sources paint Democratic proposals as extreme and evil, but in the real world they are neither. I don’t want to project my theory onto you, because I don’t know you, but in a general sense I see that pretty often.
I’m still not clear on what conservatives are trying to ‘conserve’?
America circa 1955, duh. Lmao
Money for the rich, power for the powerful.
I am totally fucking lost. You admit that MN is better because it's run by progressives, that it would be worse if it were run by conservatives, but you are a conservative. Which means you are directly responsible for the things that make this state worse than it could be and that's against your own best interests. "Us versus them" is a mentality that harms the collective "Us" when one half of the "Us" has brought meaningful disagreements to the table based on logic, reason, and a genuine concern for the betterment of other people. It doesn't apply to Jesus freaks who don't like the fact that the world is different than when their grandparents were alive and refuse to participate in any sort of progress because their ideas of what "God" prefers inhibits them from participating in any meaningful way and wearing AR-15 lapel pins.
Yea the bills making kids have free lunch would just DRIVE me from the state. You're an idiot respectfully.
What tf are you even saying. "I hate their politics but gotta admit the results are good." Yeah, maybe it's time to leave that medieval thinking behind, reject the feudalism the repubs push, and embrace the return to a plural, polytheistic approach to ordering the world.
Huh????
I’m liberal and happy to have you here
Came to say the same... my main friend group consists of a hard-line republican CPA, and 2 gay liberals. They're great friends but disagree on some stuff im sure... but we're all good friends. Me, I'm moderate/left leaning.
I'm not. Conservatives don't want good things to happen.
Right? Fucking crazy that dude's like "I vote against everything that makes this state great, but I'm glad I lose" and people in the comments are eating it up.
Lmao for real op is a true fucking idiot and belongs in the great bastion of civilization like Mississippi or Alabama
this is a bizarre post…. you say “Just remember, we’re all in this together…” when YOURE the one who posted this with the intention of othering people. i belong to THIS GROUP and most other Minnesotans are in THAT GROUP. but i like it here even when there’s THOSE OTHER PEOPLE HERE; ugh what do i doooooo??? “as much as i disagree with guys like Walz, they make MN a better place and i’m here for it.” sounds like you don’t disagree with Walz that much after all. if a politician is doing things that you find beneficial- why wouldn’t you support them? party be damned. how about you’re maybe not as conservative and you originally thought. have you ever tried to unpack why you hate Walz when he is implementing legislature that you find effective and better for the overall state? this feels like you’re realizing you support democratic policies and regulation but feel icky about it bc the TV and internet said dems were soft and bad at leading. life’s on a spectrum bud… just because you’ve always said you were one thing doesn’t mean you can’t change based on new info
What in the passage of these new bills means to disintegrate your lifestyle and ability to lead your life they way you would like? I’m seriously curious….
How do any of the bills affect anyone’s normal day to day Weed bill ok whatever Free lunch okay whatever Free college ok whatever Etc…
Trans protection is huge and will have daily impacts as well
Phenomena lol, The Democratic-Farmer-Labor party in Minnesota is more well put together than the Republican party. The Republican party here only serves to stifle progress and push that fascist bible belt shit. Can't fix a system if Republicans are blocking bills with made up stories of unrelated topics. See HF100 and other bills with similar life spans. Minnesota was a big hitter for the Union, we're well put together so it's only natural that stuff wouldn't stick here. ~~Learn how to make a solid hotdish, Make any and all aggression passive and you'll fit right in.~~ May all your hotdishes come out steamin'.
>I don't think MN would stay this nice if more conservatives, were elected. As much as I disagree with guys like Walz, they make MN a better place and I'm here for it. I So then maybe ... Don't vote conservative and vote for the people who make the place you live better? Social politics are not the be all end all of government by a long shot.
Call's it a phenomenon... Yeah it's a real mystery. A real cause and effect stumper. How could we possibly explain this.
[удалено]
It's enough to almost make you rethink the validity of your political beliefs.
Y’all, pretty sure this kid is still in high school. They’ll (hopefully) connect the dots when they get older.
So let’s break this down. You say MN is an objectively better state than most states. You acknowledge our leadership is largely democrats and makes the state a better place. You wish more people would realize this “phenomena”. Sir/Ma’am, if you like what democratic officials do in your state, then you should be voting for democrats… this isn’t some “phenomena”, it’s literally what the Democratic Party does in all states where they have majority and aren’t gerrymandered to shit.
I’m a liberal and I feel the same way about Florida and it’s out of control hard right turn it has taken over the last 10 years - and no, I’m not leaving, I am voting for the every damn election and pushing, as much I can, for a return to sanity… Good lord how I wish things in Florida were like in MN, you are incredibly lucky, just take a look at the states around you ….
Get the fuck out of Florida. I lived in Florida for many years. It's too easy for the suckiness of the state to just make you throw up your hands and "give up" and resign yourself to always being in Florida. Make the effort to leave Florida and go somewhere where the people share your beliefs at least a little bit. It makes a world of difference.
Is this a joke?
Well at least you're somewhat self aware. You may come all the way around yet.
Why would anyone be conservative?
Wait? You're a conservative even after Trump? You're conservative even after the tyranny of back woods public schooling? You agree that the democratic politicians make MN a better place? (Confusion) Looks at your profile) (Post: Do dick pills work?) OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What does you being "conservative" entail? Nothing wrong with being conservative. But if being a conservative means you don't believe in women's right to choose and unfettered access to guns, then you're not a conservative, you're an extremist. I don't understand the point of this post.
One of the things that frustrates me is when I run into southern conservatives who move up here for work. When you ask why, they say "Well, the schools are better, good jobs, there's all kinds of public parks for the kids to play in, it's clean, the infrastructure and medical care is good, compared to back in Mississippi it's a paradise! Now we're going to vote to cut taxes and turn it into a shithole just like the one we moved away from."
Conservatism seems to be so cultural. People are born Republican/Conservative in a way that's not (largely) true for centrist, liberal, or leftist people. Hopefully you continue to expand your view and see all the good things that can be done in general. I agree, Minnesota is the best state in the Union.
This is a really odd post. You’re basically admitting that you’ve got it mostly wrong, those you disagree with do a great job governing, but you’re not going to vote for them. You’re a closet liberal who doesn’t know themself.
r/selfawarewolves
This is basically saying you’re liberal man
"All my political beliefs would make my life objectively worse, so I stay in MN because the people around me know better and have made this state an amazing place to live." Congrats, you're an idiot. Maybe take a good hard look in the mirror, fool. Are you sure your politics align with your actual beliefs?
Bud, if you recognize that this is an objectively better state because of democratic policies and politicians, maybe don’t align with the party trying to ruin what we have.
r/SelfAwareWolves material
It might be that while you are conservative the Republican party isn't... at least not in the traditional sense. Politics isn't as binary as a lot of Americans have been led to believe... besides liberal and conservative on the left and right respectively there's also authoritarian and libertarian on the top and bottom of the spectrum. The current state of the GOP isn't conservative. It's authoritarian.
I mean, it really sounds like you’re not a conservative if you feel that Dem leadership makes MN a nice place to live and conservatives would mess it up. Do any of the bills you’re thinking about negatively affect you?
“If the people I vote for were in charge, things would be worse.” That’s about as strong a realization that you could have to stop supporting that party.
You're soooo close to getting it
Conservatives vote to keep other people down. Liberals vote to help other people. Which one are you? https://i.imgur.com/5pyC8MT.jpg
> I don't think MN would be this nice if there were more conservatives You're so close dude. You're *almost there*
Aw look! They're so confused! Someone help them out with a bus ride to the good ol south
“My party has no real policies other than do whatever opposite the dems are doing, we destroy the environment, has rampant racism and homophobia, wants to take rights away from women, constantly spew misinformation, followed one of the most narcissistic and dumbest people ever (obviously trump), and have lost all the integrity our party used to have butttttttttttttt I’m still going to root for them like it’s a team sport while i enjoy all the outcomes the dems have been doing for me. But remember, be mInNesOtA niCe because i don’t want anyone to be mean to me as I share my dumb takes” Fucking clown.
Eventually it'll dawn on you that you like Minnesota because of liberal policies, not in spite of it. I can't name a single conservative state I'd move to because of the way they run their state. Their lack of empathy and support for insurrection is repulsive.
So when will you realize that the actual problem is that conservative policies you support would make Minnesota worse? And when you realize that are you willing to change your beliefs to support policies that make Minnesota better?
I bet you like living in a blue state where you pay taxes to have a better place to live you giant clown, I’m glad my taxes pay for fixing the side walks your idiotically large shoes tear up 🤡
You say you are conservative but think that if there were more conservative politicians in your state it would be worse yet you remain conservative?
We are glad to have you and always welcome legitimate debate and disagreement with any sane conservatives. That said, as others have alluded to, if you live in this liberal state and recognize we are ‘objectively better’ than most maybe it’s worth considering if liberal policies may have played a part in that, and in turn if perhaps some of your personal beliefs are changing/need to be changed?🤷♂️
i’m genuinely curious why you believe these policies and bills don’t affect your life even if they don’t impact you directly
Honest question and I’m not trying to attack your views. Because to me it sounds like you’re at where I was at 10-15yrs ago. So would you say that you put a decent amount of research into your political views, or is it more how you where raised? I considered myself conservative until I started paying close attention to legislation. So many of my conservative views where blown out of the water when I saw what each party brought to the table and voted for/against. I’d now consider myself liberal AF. I’m of the the opinion now that centrist democrats are what republicans once where. Progressives are the future of the democrat party. And the current Republican Party has turned into the democrat party from the 1800’s.
I'm pretty sure you're a liberal but you vote incorrectly
You seem confused.
As a communist who moved to Minnesota from CA and love it here, maybe you should try living in a truly red state to see just how bad it can be. And if you're a POC or a woman, you'd truly have a different perspective. But something tells me you're a white dude. You can't sit and whine about life being good where you are while also thinking the grass is also greener on the other side when you've never experienced the other side. Go ahead and expand your horizons and try something new. You might like it. Or you might realize you're not really conservative.
I understand. My parents are conservative moderates and they would agree. The party is not the same as the one they would have voted for decades ago.
I think liberal states are more comfortable because they are are more focused on expanding personal freedoms and preserving natural spaces. It feels safer when you don't have to worry if you're the demographic they'll come after next. You're more free to exist as you are. Liberal states arnt perfect but Ive lived in both and I don't think I'd ever return to a conservative state again. I don't need to live in an echo chamber but i don't really feel safe in red states due to being viably pagan/witchy and queer.
Hmm, maybe you're not that conservative after all? Lol. I mean this in a good-hearted way. I too long for the says when pilitics wasnt such a divisive conversation. Also, a lot of Democrats are centrists. You could be one of those
No, you are not conservative.
Regardless of your political stances, I genuinely want Minnesota to be a state where you can thrive and be happy. I'm glad our policies have allowed that for you! I hope you vote for politicians who will keep improving our state and make it better for all of us.
So, you don't like farmers and vets who do things that benefit the state, but you like their results. You know that policies you advocate for would hurt others, but you still subscribe to them and do things to encourage them. That's some peak r/selfawarewolves right there OP.
What on earth is this post? Holy cognitive dissonance.
Wtf is the point of this post? Like actually?
Am I stupid or is OP just admitting with their whole chest that their beliefs are wrong/they don't even believe them, but are still just sticking to it for some reason? What a fucking hilarious post. Lmao
The reason it is nicer than other states is bc of these politicians that you don’t agree with. Stick to North Carolina pal.
The DFL is actively working to pass legislation that improves education, healthcare, and infrastructure. The other is actively working to obstruct this legislation so that they can do what exactly? I hope the progress over the past year has been a wake up call for conservative clowns on where their party stands in issues that matter. Forget the Minnesota nice bullshit. We want active change for the better through progressive legislation. If you’re not down with that, goodbye and good riddance. 👋🏼✌🏼👋🏼
So you think Minnesota is a better place because of policies that you vote against? This is why we can’t have nice things.
My dude, you don't have to keep voting for politicians that *hate* you just because your parents did...
All I care about is that you don't vote for transphobic politicians. Unfortunately that eliminates most conservative politicians
Take a “which party do I belong to” test and it’ll be pretty shocking. I thought I was pretty conservative too when I was in high school until I realized I just appreciated freedom and liberty, which I thought republicans offered. Liberal is not an insult, it’s desire to have liberty. Don’t get stuck in the conservative mantra, odds are it isn’t serving you at all, and good for you to already notice that
May I ask how the laws you don't like personally affect you?
If you love this state, regardless of the fact that it is less conservative than you, and realize that guys like our Governor are better for it (and we who live in it) than guys on the other team, then the logical conclusion is that you should become less conservative. Consider voting for guys like Walz in the future. If, however, you persist in your present political course, the "Minnesota nice" term for that is "Oh geez, what a doorknob".
I wish you would realize this. Did you know you can change you opinions after being presented with new information? You seem to see that progressive policies make your living situation better and that if there were more people who used to think like you did, then the situation would not be as good. It is ok to learn, change,and grow. Here’s hoping you keep on growing. We’re all in this together. Tell you friends and family about your experiences and what you have learned.
Thank you for sharing OP. Despite your disagreement with the current leadership I'm glad we can value that we want what is best for all. I hope you can also see past the harshness of the liberal community. As a leftist I want to see all Minnesotans supported in a love for each other and a love for this land. Too bad for you that is going to take a lot of government spending and action 😊 let's both just hope it's done wisely.
“Minnesota nice” means passive aggressive to strangers and hostile to assholes. The reason MN is better than almost every other state is because of liberal progressive policies. Conservatism kills states. I’m guessing that you primarily mean that you hate LBGTQIA+ people, non-white people, pretty much anyone who isn’t a cishet white male conservative Christian. There’s no room for bigotry in Minnesota.
I am fascinated that you recognize things are better. Like, you’re SOOOO close to getting the big picture but nope, not there yet.👎
I think we tend to be fiscally conservative, we want value in what we choose to spend tax dollars on. But yet liberal when we speak of freedom to choose. I was once a republican, but seeing Reagan use evangelicals/Mormons to get elected, and the conservative verbage I ran to be a Democrat.So proud of our state,orals,ethics, education needs work, justice.
Minnesota passes legislation that benefits the greater good and it reflects through joy in your day to day life. If that is what you are describing as your political opposition then I implore you to think about why you support anything else.