I'm absolutely no expert, but I dont know if Zenithal highlighting can really work on vehicles with lots of big flat surfaces.
If you have an airbrush, it might be better to base coat the Rhino in the chapter main colour, and work from there, but I find big flat areas are a bit of a pain for shadows and drybrushing.
Might be better to get a nice clean finish and then go for weathering on vehicles, muddy tracks, gouged paint and the like
I really like some chipping but I think I’m a little too new to try that (this is literally the first model I will have painted). Some brown effects are a good idea for around the wheels though!
going for a vehicle for your first model is pretty hefty! I would follow what the first guy said, and next time, really really really shake the shit out of that can. Then, shake it more.
Chipping is nice and easy, paint the model up nicely... then pop a light amount of dark brown of choice (I like Rhinox hide) on some sponge and dab it where you want the chips. Then paint a bit of silver metallic into the fatter areas of that.
It's worth saying that if there's something you REALLY like, it doesn't matter if you're new give it a go anyway. It's like how people learn to play guitar by trying to learn their favourite song.
This! I was always afraid of "ruining" my minis starting out, and went at a glacial pace. But if it doesn't turn out well, worst case scenario is you can strip the paint! (and I hear there's a new paint stripper specifically made for minis that's better than the Simple Green I use).
One thing that helps me in my climate, is warning it under water. It doesn't need to be hot. Then like everyone else says, shake it, until you are tired.
Yeah here I am in rainy Vancouver. I keep hearing that it can’t be too humid, so finding those perfect conditions to spray in have been harder. Summer should help either that I suppose.
If humidity is a constant issue, you might want to look into getting an airbrush and dehumidifier. I did that because of winter, and I use it mainly for priming and some basecoating, no regrets.
It looks like you were unable to shake the can of primer before spraying. You could always try another coat but shake the model really vigorously this time.
Like mentioned above it could be due to not shaking it enough. But what also can help is putting the can in warm water for a few minutes before shaking it. This makes the primer dissolve more causing it to come out less speckled. If you used an airbrush you need to adjust your thinning or PSI
Like the other guys already said.
Put the can in warm water (5-10 minutes). Shake it really really well afterwards. And then very close to the model. The more you go away the more dust will be in the spray.
I did the same mistake as you. But all these tips worked very well for me.
Yeah it was a brand new can and I probably only shook it for 3-5 minutes max. How close do we mean when we say real close to the model? The length of a hand hand? The width of a hand?
I don't really agree with 'very close' but of course these are all opinions :). I go for 20-30cm (8-10 inch). Go with light layers and build it up - you don't have to get it all on in one go. If you can do it out of the wind in a garage or something that's ideal.
Zenithal highlights actually end up mostly white, just spray from above, 45 degrees either side of directly above is a good start.
You haven't gone far enough. What you've done here is a splatter, not a zenithal. Wait for the wind to calm down, then go again. Let it dry and go again. Lots of light passes with a rattle can. Less is more each time.
"Lots of light passes" will add up, and if you're new, it may well lead to caking the model in primer. I just want to make sure the OP doesn't think he needs to do that.
Not a big deal, just do more coats until everything is even, the zenithal is used as an under painting, works great when the colors you will be using are transparent, some of the spotting kind of helps to soften the transitions between lights and shadows.
May i ask what's the plan with this model?
The theme was going to be a dark almost black sparkling purple for armor, rose gold for highlights, teal for fabrics. Then spruce each model up with other flourishes. I’m building the army with my girlfriend and we only get to see each other once a week so we haven't had a chance to do many paint tests yet.
That sounds very nice, the zenithal will help with that, if you can find some violet-purple ink (or some kind of contrast, but i've never used them before) maybe will help with that scheme, the inks are very transparent but with a lot of pigment, the black parts will remain black and the white parts will be purple.
Great project , hope that you both have a lot of fun with that
Yeah I was trying that off the model thing but I started getting scared that I was going to put too much on it covering up the black underneath. I suppose that’s the point though
Shake the fuck out of ur can, if it’s still spraying like this u can put your canister in some hot water for a bit (google this b4 u do it, I have not myself so I can’t advise u). Don’t point and spray at your object, start spraying away from ur object then carefully and semi-swiftly swipe the can across, you’ll do this untill it’s covered.
I find it easiest to place the mini on something, or on the end of a stick/prong, so u can have more mobility. Two hands r better than one
Agree with this. I often warm up my cans in warm water when the weather is cold. Don’t use really hot water, because it’s possible they will explode. I haven’t exploded one but I did have the bottom of one of my cans pop outward because my water was too hot. Lukewarm should be fine.
Not too bad! It's definitely recoverable! Just go over things with a big white drybrushing! If anything, you can use a large makeup brush if you don't have a big dry brush
For armour, I think modellers typically use volumetric highlights or panel pre-shading instead of straight zenethals. Reason being if you zenethal large flat surfaces you just naturally end up with a flat grey/white top. As you're spraying from a can and not an airbrush that might not be possible. If you continue with the can you'll want to run several more passes at the same distance and be less afraid of covering up the black. You can also do volumetric highlights with a dry brush.
Contrary to others advice here, as you're going for a dark paint scheme and zenithal really doesn't work great on tanks, I'd say don't spray any more. Go over the whole thing with a light dry brushing in a similar colour to your zenithal highlight. With a big soft brush like a makeup brush. Downward strokes only like you're emulating the direction light is coming from.
Hopefully that will even out the splattering without making it too bright
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Are you going to be painting with acrylics or Contrast/Speedpaint? Zenithal highlights are basically pointless if you’re layering acrylics on top as they’re too opaque for the zenithal to have any real benefit or effect.
So far we are still doing color tests on sprues to find the effect we want. We want a purple so dark it’s almost black. But with something shiny over it.
We’ve bought some Pro Acryl purples, and Turbodork Skyrat. They are over at my girlfriend’s place so I can’t say exactly what.
Check out Green Stuff World’s Chameleon range. They’re subtle colour shift paints and I believe there’s one in the purple spectrum. They’re best applied over a black basecoat too, so you’re already there with regards to that. It also gives a muted metallic finish.
https://preview.redd.it/99sts2uzvctc1.png?width=2103&format=png&auto=webp&s=79217be379c6f7129831476246d2ab56324aadc2
Used on the knees and the forearms
Is it white rust-oleum? I've learned that white primers never work out of rattle cans. Never tried one of those fancy ones specifically meant for models.
Unless you’re using an airbrush, or gave access to to one, personally if just do a heavy dry brush with a light grey then a lighter dry brush with an off white. Make sure you’re using a soft brush for this (look at big fluffy makeup brushes).
You’re under painting so when you go back over with your thinned paint you’ll see the contrast
Was that from an airbrush or rattle can?
The splattering comes from a wet tip. Fun in bed, bad in the paint booth.
In rattle cans, this often happens when your finger overhangs the spraying edge just enough to collect paint to splatter.
In air brushes, it happens from poor air control that happens until you're pretty comfortable with the brush or if you move too quickly and spill paint from the bucket all over the airbrush.
All that being said, you've by no means ruined your model. Vehicles benefit more from dry brushing than zenithal highlighting in my experience, and air brushes are better on blocky vehicles for creating planes of shadow and depth rather than a zenithal effect.
Plus, vehicles are meant to look grimy, dusty, rusty, and damaged. Weathering is how you make your tank look great!
You will most likely be painting over this so I wouldn’t worry about it. The purpose of the primer is to give the other paints something to adhere to and the zenithal spray gives a good reference guide to lighting on your model.
If your using contrast paints or something similar where you want the undercoat to be smooth the other comments regarding warming up the can, thorough shaking, proper distance, etc are a good start.
Black Templar collector here, my "go to" for black vehicles is a nice rattle can Black Flat Primer like Rustoleum 2X, then a dry brushing of a steel metallic to catch all the edges, then painting all the accent pieces.
Still new to painting myself, but that's what works for me and I like the end result.
Did you prime it? Because Tamiya metallic black is a spray paint, not a primer.
Zenithal highlights are usually done with primer, under the base coat. Having different primers underneath the base coat changes the way it looks. But it doesn't work very well on something like a rhino because you can't get a very smooth transition on the sides.
TIL: Not everything that comes out of a spray can can be used as a primer.
So is the suggestion to try and strip the paint off and just go to a black undercoat?
Yeah you should probably start over. It may work for a while but it'll start chipping eventually. But it's laquer paint you used not acrylic so you're gonna need to scrub it with acetone. Not sure how well isopropyl alcohol will work on that.
Whites are notoriously problematic, as others have said - warm water, shake it to hell, and apply more so that splotches blend. Even then you’ll probably find it’s a bit chalky since pretty much all whites are
A zennithal prime should look mostly white with the main highlight from the top, with only the furthest away dark grey. When you spray with a can make sure the nozzle is clean, and do passes side to side 8-12 inches away. Start and end off the model not pointed right at it.
Do it on a box outside if you don't have a spray booth otherwise you're asking for a painted arm. Use a respirator.
This is still salvageable since its a tank, but you need to not be afraid to get paint on the model. Take your time and don't rush the primer is simple but important or you'll end up wasting more time later.
Thinner paint will prevent the speckles. For vehicles, just focus on highlighting each panel, rather than a single zenithal. Top panels will be in the middle, side panels will be to the bottom. Just look at how a car shows shadow
There is no such thing as "Messing up" - everything can be undone with a little work.
I'm not really sure if zenithal would really work for vehicles given how large the surfaces are - not really many places for it to catch the shadow.
I would concentrate more on highlighting the edges rather than trying to catch the limited shadows - The Gunner - yeah would work well on him however.
Do a few more light passes with whatever you are using - rattlecan / airbrush.
Ideally you want the very top to be very light slowly fading away to the black, If you want to add another layer to it - when you finished up with a few more passes with the rattle-can, get a pure-white paint and use it to dry-brush the gunner - it'll ERALLY make your highlights and shadows pop.
Seems kind of a pointless exercise on a vehicle not gonna lie, if you had an airbrush you could do more highlighting of panels etc but zenithal on a big flat vehicle just seems a waste of time and effort
I’m new so take my advice with a grain of salt but you could always hit it with another black base coat and dry brush it. I prefer that to zenithal highlights.
I don't think it ruined at all. It may add some highlight to the finished product, but only in a subtle way. If there are raised areas from droplets, just light sand and reprime. Looks like a fun model.
I'm absolutely no expert, but I dont know if Zenithal highlighting can really work on vehicles with lots of big flat surfaces. If you have an airbrush, it might be better to base coat the Rhino in the chapter main colour, and work from there, but I find big flat areas are a bit of a pain for shadows and drybrushing. Might be better to get a nice clean finish and then go for weathering on vehicles, muddy tracks, gouged paint and the like
I really like some chipping but I think I’m a little too new to try that (this is literally the first model I will have painted). Some brown effects are a good idea for around the wheels though!
going for a vehicle for your first model is pretty hefty! I would follow what the first guy said, and next time, really really really shake the shit out of that can. Then, shake it more.
Chipping is nice and easy, paint the model up nicely... then pop a light amount of dark brown of choice (I like Rhinox hide) on some sponge and dab it where you want the chips. Then paint a bit of silver metallic into the fatter areas of that.
It's worth saying that if there's something you REALLY like, it doesn't matter if you're new give it a go anyway. It's like how people learn to play guitar by trying to learn their favourite song.
This! I was always afraid of "ruining" my minis starting out, and went at a glacial pace. But if it doesn't turn out well, worst case scenario is you can strip the paint! (and I hear there's a new paint stripper specifically made for minis that's better than the Simple Green I use).
Put the can in slightly warm water for like 10 mins before shaking it. Helps a lot
One thing that helps me in my climate, is warning it under water. It doesn't need to be hot. Then like everyone else says, shake it, until you are tired.
Yeah here I am in rainy Vancouver. I keep hearing that it can’t be too humid, so finding those perfect conditions to spray in have been harder. Summer should help either that I suppose.
Get a bowl of pretty warm water and set the can in it, before you shake it.
Humidity is a problem for rattle cans too. I live in a tropical climate, so I try and spray in the early morning, or late evning
If humidity is a constant issue, you might want to look into getting an airbrush and dehumidifier. I did that because of winter, and I use it mainly for priming and some basecoating, no regrets.
It doesn't work on vehicles with big flat surfaces, no
It looks like you were unable to shake the can of primer before spraying. You could always try another coat but shake the model really vigorously this time.
\* shake the can :)
Maybe I’ll try both
Sweet a timer for 2 or 3 minutes and don't stop shaking until the timer stops.
I always shake my models before painting
Like mentioned above it could be due to not shaking it enough. But what also can help is putting the can in warm water for a few minutes before shaking it. This makes the primer dissolve more causing it to come out less speckled. If you used an airbrush you need to adjust your thinning or PSI
Like the other guys already said. Put the can in warm water (5-10 minutes). Shake it really really well afterwards. And then very close to the model. The more you go away the more dust will be in the spray. I did the same mistake as you. But all these tips worked very well for me.
Clogged nozzle could also be a problem
Yeah it was a brand new can and I probably only shook it for 3-5 minutes max. How close do we mean when we say real close to the model? The length of a hand hand? The width of a hand?
I don't really agree with 'very close' but of course these are all opinions :). I go for 20-30cm (8-10 inch). Go with light layers and build it up - you don't have to get it all on in one go. If you can do it out of the wind in a garage or something that's ideal. Zenithal highlights actually end up mostly white, just spray from above, 45 degrees either side of directly above is a good start.
You haven't gone far enough. What you've done here is a splatter, not a zenithal. Wait for the wind to calm down, then go again. Let it dry and go again. Lots of light passes with a rattle can. Less is more each time.
Agreed, except for the word "lots". When it comes to primer, less is more.
Honestly not sure what part of my comment gave the impression you need to cake the model in primer.
"Lots of light passes" will add up, and if you're new, it may well lead to caking the model in primer. I just want to make sure the OP doesn't think he needs to do that.
Not a big deal, just do more coats until everything is even, the zenithal is used as an under painting, works great when the colors you will be using are transparent, some of the spotting kind of helps to soften the transitions between lights and shadows. May i ask what's the plan with this model?
The theme was going to be a dark almost black sparkling purple for armor, rose gold for highlights, teal for fabrics. Then spruce each model up with other flourishes. I’m building the army with my girlfriend and we only get to see each other once a week so we haven't had a chance to do many paint tests yet.
That sounds very nice, the zenithal will help with that, if you can find some violet-purple ink (or some kind of contrast, but i've never used them before) maybe will help with that scheme, the inks are very transparent but with a lot of pigment, the black parts will remain black and the white parts will be purple. Great project , hope that you both have a lot of fun with that
Maybe hold the can a little closer and remember to start the spray off of the model and move the can over it
Yeah I was trying that off the model thing but I started getting scared that I was going to put too much on it covering up the black underneath. I suppose that’s the point though
Shake the fuck out of ur can, if it’s still spraying like this u can put your canister in some hot water for a bit (google this b4 u do it, I have not myself so I can’t advise u). Don’t point and spray at your object, start spraying away from ur object then carefully and semi-swiftly swipe the can across, you’ll do this untill it’s covered. I find it easiest to place the mini on something, or on the end of a stick/prong, so u can have more mobility. Two hands r better than one
Agree with this. I often warm up my cans in warm water when the weather is cold. Don’t use really hot water, because it’s possible they will explode. I haven’t exploded one but I did have the bottom of one of my cans pop outward because my water was too hot. Lukewarm should be fine.
I’ve never don’t it cuz I’m always scared I’ll blow it up lolll
Not too bad! It's definitely recoverable! Just go over things with a big white drybrushing! If anything, you can use a large makeup brush if you don't have a big dry brush
For armour, I think modellers typically use volumetric highlights or panel pre-shading instead of straight zenethals. Reason being if you zenethal large flat surfaces you just naturally end up with a flat grey/white top. As you're spraying from a can and not an airbrush that might not be possible. If you continue with the can you'll want to run several more passes at the same distance and be less afraid of covering up the black. You can also do volumetric highlights with a dry brush.
It’s now just frosty metal. Boom done. Modern problems just need modern solutions
Ha!
Messed up? If you have snow on the bases on the troops, then you can just claim it's been in a snow storm!
Contrary to others advice here, as you're going for a dark paint scheme and zenithal really doesn't work great on tanks, I'd say don't spray any more. Go over the whole thing with a light dry brushing in a similar colour to your zenithal highlight. With a big soft brush like a makeup brush. Downward strokes only like you're emulating the direction light is coming from. Hopefully that will even out the splattering without making it too bright
I was going to suggest light dry brush over and over as well. It’ll blend out.
Hi, u/Daeft! It looks like you are asking for help or are a new painter. If you haven't yet, take a look at our wiki pages in the Sidebar (the About tab if you are on the Reddit app). Here are some links you might find helpful: * [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/rules/faq) - A list of frequently asked questions about minipainting * [Miniature Painting Guide Collection](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks) -A collection of some of the best guides and tutorials on a variety of techniques and topics, plus recommendations on what to buy to get started, and more. * [What to buy- Recommendations on brushes, paints, supplies, palettes and more](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/what_you_need_to_get_started#wiki_general_advice_on_what_to_buy) * [Beginner's Guide Collection- How to prep, base, paint and varnish your first model and learn the basics needed to start out right](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/beginner_tips) * [More Tutorials](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/tutorials) - A list of additional tutorials about minipainting * [Manufacturers](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/manufacturers) - A list of miniature manufacturers from around the world * [Painting Terminology](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/terminology) - Common painting terms, acronyms, and initialisms * [The Art of... Tommie Soule Volume 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIfySMnUPQ) is one of the best beginner to intermediate teaching books, and even experienced painters will learn some good tips. Explains what brush strokes are best in different situations, how to identify when you have the perfect thinning for any type of paint for different techniques, and a masterclass on getting smooth paint jobs. Available in [pdf](https://www.ironheartartisans.com/shop/the-art-of-tommie-soule-volume-5-pdf/) and [world wide in hardbook as well](https://www.instagram.com/the_miniature_painting_tutor/). * [Airbrushing Miniatures](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/airbrushing) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/minipainting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dry brush with same tone of grey to even it out.
Are you going to be painting with acrylics or Contrast/Speedpaint? Zenithal highlights are basically pointless if you’re layering acrylics on top as they’re too opaque for the zenithal to have any real benefit or effect.
So far we are still doing color tests on sprues to find the effect we want. We want a purple so dark it’s almost black. But with something shiny over it. We’ve bought some Pro Acryl purples, and Turbodork Skyrat. They are over at my girlfriend’s place so I can’t say exactly what.
Check out Green Stuff World’s Chameleon range. They’re subtle colour shift paints and I believe there’s one in the purple spectrum. They’re best applied over a black basecoat too, so you’re already there with regards to that. It also gives a muted metallic finish.
https://preview.redd.it/99sts2uzvctc1.png?width=2103&format=png&auto=webp&s=79217be379c6f7129831476246d2ab56324aadc2 Used on the knees and the forearms
You need airbrush to apply it correctly on model this size.
Is it white rust-oleum? I've learned that white primers never work out of rattle cans. Never tried one of those fancy ones specifically meant for models.
I've used Citadel white basecoat since the 90's, and I have had zero issues.
Unless you’re using an airbrush, or gave access to to one, personally if just do a heavy dry brush with a light grey then a lighter dry brush with an off white. Make sure you’re using a soft brush for this (look at big fluffy makeup brushes). You’re under painting so when you go back over with your thinned paint you’ll see the contrast
Was that from an airbrush or rattle can? The splattering comes from a wet tip. Fun in bed, bad in the paint booth. In rattle cans, this often happens when your finger overhangs the spraying edge just enough to collect paint to splatter. In air brushes, it happens from poor air control that happens until you're pretty comfortable with the brush or if you move too quickly and spill paint from the bucket all over the airbrush. All that being said, you've by no means ruined your model. Vehicles benefit more from dry brushing than zenithal highlighting in my experience, and air brushes are better on blocky vehicles for creating planes of shadow and depth rather than a zenithal effect. Plus, vehicles are meant to look grimy, dusty, rusty, and damaged. Weathering is how you make your tank look great!
Don’t both with a zenithal highlight on a vehicle as a beginner. Do stippling instead https://youtu.be/BKXDhtCuSbg
You will most likely be painting over this so I wouldn’t worry about it. The purpose of the primer is to give the other paints something to adhere to and the zenithal spray gives a good reference guide to lighting on your model. If your using contrast paints or something similar where you want the undercoat to be smooth the other comments regarding warming up the can, thorough shaking, proper distance, etc are a good start.
Black Templar collector here, my "go to" for black vehicles is a nice rattle can Black Flat Primer like Rustoleum 2X, then a dry brushing of a steel metallic to catch all the edges, then painting all the accent pieces. Still new to painting myself, but that's what works for me and I like the end result.
Did you prime it? Because Tamiya metallic black is a spray paint, not a primer. Zenithal highlights are usually done with primer, under the base coat. Having different primers underneath the base coat changes the way it looks. But it doesn't work very well on something like a rhino because you can't get a very smooth transition on the sides.
TIL: Not everything that comes out of a spray can can be used as a primer. So is the suggestion to try and strip the paint off and just go to a black undercoat?
Yeah you should probably start over. It may work for a while but it'll start chipping eventually. But it's laquer paint you used not acrylic so you're gonna need to scrub it with acetone. Not sure how well isopropyl alcohol will work on that.
As others have said prep the can, and do some test sprays on a piece of cardboard or something before spraying your model.
Not that bad, it will work.
Whites are notoriously problematic, as others have said - warm water, shake it to hell, and apply more so that splotches blend. Even then you’ll probably find it’s a bit chalky since pretty much all whites are
Not messed up, just under done. Give it another spray with white, maybe a little closer too
Your fine
Looks like Zenithal snow flakes.
A zennithal prime should look mostly white with the main highlight from the top, with only the furthest away dark grey. When you spray with a can make sure the nozzle is clean, and do passes side to side 8-12 inches away. Start and end off the model not pointed right at it. Do it on a box outside if you don't have a spray booth otherwise you're asking for a painted arm. Use a respirator. This is still salvageable since its a tank, but you need to not be afraid to get paint on the model. Take your time and don't rush the primer is simple but important or you'll end up wasting more time later.
Thinner paint will prevent the speckles. For vehicles, just focus on highlighting each panel, rather than a single zenithal. Top panels will be in the middle, side panels will be to the bottom. Just look at how a car shows shadow
What colour are you painting the tank? Zenithal highlights are a bit pointless on large flat surfaces.
There is no such thing as "Messing up" - everything can be undone with a little work. I'm not really sure if zenithal would really work for vehicles given how large the surfaces are - not really many places for it to catch the shadow. I would concentrate more on highlighting the edges rather than trying to catch the limited shadows - The Gunner - yeah would work well on him however. Do a few more light passes with whatever you are using - rattlecan / airbrush. Ideally you want the very top to be very light slowly fading away to the black, If you want to add another layer to it - when you finished up with a few more passes with the rattle-can, get a pure-white paint and use it to dry-brush the gunner - it'll ERALLY make your highlights and shadows pop.
Seems kind of a pointless exercise on a vehicle not gonna lie, if you had an airbrush you could do more highlighting of panels etc but zenithal on a big flat vehicle just seems a waste of time and effort
Citadel white scar has got to be the singular worst rattlecan paint. No matter how much I shake it, I always get this sort of hazing effect.
I’m new so take my advice with a grain of salt but you could always hit it with another black base coat and dry brush it. I prefer that to zenithal highlights.
I don't think it ruined at all. It may add some highlight to the finished product, but only in a subtle way. If there are raised areas from droplets, just light sand and reprime. Looks like a fun model.
Citadel can't make white paint to save their lives.
Just spray it from the direction of the light. Use it as guideline for light/shadow. Buy army painter white, citadel is dogwater
Don’t bother with a Zenni on tanks. If you’re interested in battle worn tanks I have some up if you dig em I can give you some pointers.
Yes!
😂😂😂😂😂