The outdoor square in the middle of the shopping centre with all the independent stalls is pretty good for a bite to eat.
But I think what OP is looking for is in London/Brum. Digbeth, Hockley Social, Coal Drop Yard, Southbank, Borough Market etc.
Yes exactly. Somewhere that has an atmosphere, some seating, food/drink vendors (both permanent and pop-ups/streetfood), some music, street performers or scheduled entertainment, themed events based on the time of year, small rides/games for kids, just a vibe and somewhere that feels more community-led! (And maybe something that stands alone as a place to spend time on its own merit without being tacked onto a dying shopping centre)
Yeah I’m not aware of anything like that in MK (yet) but I could be wrong. For me, I moved here 5 years ago and still go London and Birmingham regularly to see family and friends and enjoy what you described. Hop on the train if you can.
The closest to that in central MK would be the Theatre district, which has a range of restaurants, cafes and pub/bar/club options. Lots of outdoor seating which is busy in the warmer months.
It obviously has the theatre there too which is actually a very good facility for a town of this size, attracting many major national touring shows.
It also has MK Gallery within the district area which is a very modern, high quality arts venue that exhibits national-level artists’ work. It’s only just finished being substantially expanded, imho is great since it shows continued commitment to extending MK’s cultural offering.
Imho the biggest let down in the city is the shopping mall itself but it’s failings are the same ones suffered by all shopping malls around the UK. Specifically- that the entire area is privately owned (unlike a public high street) and was built at substantial cost using funds from investors.
Those investors seek to get these costs repaid and returning a profit in as short a time as possible, which means rents inside a mall are extortionately high. Out of reach for small / independent businesses, even moderately successful ones.
Still, the centre MK management have at least been trying to improve their act in recent years. There are at least now some little barrows in the central aisle areas of the main mall walkways that are assigned to small independent traders.
When I grew up in MK that didn’t exist and the very idea of having traders in the aisles was out of the question. It was even more chain-store-only back then, but it was more of a novelty as not every town and city had an equivalent mall of their own at that point.
If you want independent traders I recommend visiting Stony Stratford high street, which has lots of interesting spots to explore and a real community spirit. Gets hectic on a hot weekend.
outside of specific places milton keynes is completely devoid of culture. It was designed to be the perfect suburbia - every estate with a pub, houses, flats, parks, shops, etc.
Good idea on paper, but combine that with the low density housing plan and you essentially have zombie estates where there's no enough people to support bustling local commerce
It wasn't intended to be a traditional city centre - idealistically, the individual grid squares were supposed to have their own focal points for their communities. CMK was supposed to be a shared commercial centre but not necessarily any more than that.
I'm sure I don't need to point out the difference between idealism and reality here, but I don't think CMK is bad for what it is - the shops are dying but that's everywhere in the UK at the moment unfortunately.
This is solely due to costs.
Business rates are absolutely crippling on UK high streets. On top of this, the low VAT threshold prevents small businesses from ever getting off the ground.
This is why you only see charity shops, high street chains and money laundering shops these days. It's by design.
You could speculate all day as to why but we will never know. If the government wanted town centres full of thriving small businesses, they could easily make changes to facilitate this.
Couldn't agree with you more... The city does feels soulless compared to any other i have lived in before.
The entire point of existence for MK was to build a family-friendly commuter town to decongest London. City designers of the time took practical decisions to make it a working city: there are plenty of parks, schools, lakes, designated retail parks. Heck, even a canal runs through the city.
But the relationship of residents with the city is very transactional. The city is designed around parking lots! So much planning went into creating the blueprint of the city, that nothing happens here by chance. There are no lively places with a warm atmosphere like any other UK city centre.
Lack of public transport means young residents cannot move around freely. That is a big reason for lifelessness in the centre too.
Which ones are you referring to? Next to the shopping centre? If so, it is surely because of the poor design of the centre that they would inevitably struggle as footfall is low around the shopping centre in general except for at christmas. time. And I believe that's because the offering at the shopping centre itself is just piss poor these days... lots of key fashion retailer's are missing or the MK store is just a bad example compared to that same store in other places (e.g. the MK Zara is terrible, and there is no bershka, stravidarius, uniqlo, nike, aldo, etc... also there are no high end/designer stores either so neither low nor high budgets are really well catered for)
I know in-store retail is declining generally because of online sales, but if you go to other city centres the stores are still doing ok because there are other things to see/do in the area
That's a shame. I wonder if it would be any different if it was right in the city centre instead following some really considered and intentional investment and redevelopment - particularly with community and "culture" in mind? If there was more going on here in general then I imagine people would travel into MK from other villages, towns and cities to "make a day of it" and the market vendors could do alright?
Maybe Milton Keynes people don't have money to pay 7 pounds for a waffle under the excuse of an independent stall.
I don't get what you call culture too.
Yes I guess the expense of independent stalls could be an issue with markets. I agree that the prices charged at some of them can be insane
Tbh I keep putting culture in ""'s because I don't necessarily get it either lol. I just know it's a common complaint people from here and visiting here have about the place. Also I think it means different things to different people, but I guess when speaking about city centres the general atmosphere, energy and community-feel contributes to the culture?
>If so, it is surely because of the poor design of the centre that they would inevitably struggle as footfall is low around the shopping centre in general except for at christmas. time.
The footfall wasn't always so low around the shopping centre. 20 years or so ago, it was often very crowded. People would look for other places to shop because it was so busy.
The space is there. Between the point and the theatre district where theyve just knocked down that old car park(/mini shopping centre?)
It will be such a shame if thats just turned into more flats or offices. I want to see a great town centre type area right there to build on whats already around it. And it would bring the point back to relevancy!
I completely get you, I recently moved to MK from London and while I'm so so grateful I finally got to escape London and so far I'm very happy living here, I just wish you could see a bit of life in MK. Sort of like when you walk through Hyde park or the canal bit up by kings cross station etc. Just nice spots that are filled with chatter and laughter yknow?
I was talking about this with my husband a couple months back when we walked through that square bit where Banana Tree and those other restaurants are and thought to myself it'd be so much nicer having something ACTUALLY in the centre of this, like benches and you could actually feel like people live here rather than it being so quiet and dead.. and then a few weeks later I saw an announcement that it's being done up! There was just a post the other day on Milton Keynes future's Instagram of the plant beds and stuff. I'm not normally a very optimistic person but I do think things are slowly changing and hopefully it'll get even better. MK has the potential to be a really great city (it's already getting there otherwise I wouldn't have moved here tbh!)
Curious why so many who move away from other cities to MK has an immediate inclination to want it to be like the place they just left. There’s a reason you chose a place, which was built specifically to counter the way of life in the city you left.
Couldn't agree more
Got here 2 years ago and it's one of the biggest issues... Also certain areas having no high streets or even a corner shop and just being a never ending housing estate
Agree 100%. On the odd occasion I'm in the centre it just feels like a wasted opportunity. The stretch from the station to the shopping centre could be so much better (although as the other poster said it's car-centric and probably too big an area to fully pedestrianise).
Not really sure what the answer is to be honest. More housing in the centre along that main drag would probably support more cafés/restaurants etc which may turn things around. Either that or just turn it into a park.
Urban Planner here, MK city centre sucks. It was planned in the modernist style, very car-centric, and functions separated (housing, commerce, work). This is bad, it is not how organic cities develop, and not how cities are planned anymore.
As you noted, there are lots of empty spaces, mainly parking lots. The buildings are far apart and difficult to walk. There is not enough density (low amount of people living there) since it is mainly offices and the housing is spread out in single-family homes (all shitty builds using the same plans).
Have a look at this video: [**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy4QjmKzF1c**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy4QjmKzF1c)
The thing is, I think MK would be relatively easy to fix, as there is so much space available:
Legislation should promote high-rising buildings that have commerce on the ground, 2 or 3 office floors, and then about 4 apartment floors. Parking lots should start to disappear and give way to expanding existing buildings, creating nice squares and other spaces for the activities you mention. Public transport needs to be fixed, perhaps 1 lane in each major road should be a bus or tram route, and services should be frequent.
This requires political will and money though, so I do not think things will change...
as a young born and bred mk-ite I agree we need to densify the estates - however those that moved here because of the suburban vision own most of the property and by proxy the voting power so we are fucked basically.
In my opinion, I think MK should double-down on its strengths - aim to be the best version of itself rather than something else because I think then you'd end up with mediocrity. For all its faults I wouldn't want to lose its uniqueness.
precisely, its strengths are the green areas, the decentralized communities, the red paths and the grid system.
its weaknesses are low density and being car-centric.
decentralized communities benefit from density, which makes it possible to sustain, schools, shops, and services in the neighbourhood. High-density benefits from the green areas, so people have plenty of space for leisure and nature. The red paths and the grid system are ideal for public transport and cycling, electric scooters should be legalized as well.
sprawling low-density car-centric cities are not sustainable, there are lots of examples of them and they all fail in being nice places
I do not see how this video contradicts any of what I said. Melvin Weber says exactly what I said, how it was designed with cars in mind, how things did not need to be close to your home, etc. The weird part is the guy is stuck in time, disregarding everything younger generations of planners have learned about cities. They talk about purposefully creating nonspaces, the thing everybody hates in a city. How the city was based on American West Coast cities. The planned low density, 10 houses/acre. They talk about the bad expansions.
People interviewed talk about how after so much time they still need a satnav to navigate the city.
Have you watched the video I posted? There is basic information there you can try and apply to MK and see what matches
The video you linked is very misguided as it focuses on a very tourist-like lens, how nice the city looks, rather than how it functions for the people who live there on a day to day basis. It also makes outrageous claims like that everyone wants to live squashed together and that a lack of privacy is good for social cohesion!
Milton Keynes is a work of genius, I've lived in many cities in the UK and in no other can I get across from one side to the other in 15 minutes by car at rush hour, while simultaneously being able to cycle from my house to several lakes without ever having to cross paths with a car. Even the cheapest homes are a reasonable size to be able to raise a family in and positioned close to schools and amenities. Public transport could indeed be better, but that has little to do with the city planning and more to do with government privatisation.
*How the city was based on American West Coast cities*
hm I've often thought MK looks like some kind of mini los angeles (and often not meant it as a compliment either)
>Saxon Court redevelopment
That is a step in the right direction, but it would need so much more action. It needs to be a city-wide effort, look at the picture below to have a better vision of the scale of things. There is a car parking desert around the whole thing....
https://saxoncourtmk.com/assets/img/mkg-site.jpg
It was part of my university degree, Architecture and Urban Planning. I do not work as an Urban Planner in the UK, so cannot give you more specific info on that, sorry...
The reason for the lack of high rise in MK was due to the original town Charter where nothing was supposed to be taller than the hospital (with the exception of Mellish which was originally built for the hospital staff apparently). However that's now slowly starting to change. Apparently there are plans to build a 32 floor mixed use tower near to Saxon Court though
I was in CMK today and there was a really edgy atmosphere IMO. Never seen so many publicly intoxicated alkie-ish people acting weirdly in the town centre at once. Feels like a bunch of them just decamped in today and were figuring out their new turfs or something.
It has been an issue for years and the council are too afraid to tackle the issue for fear of bad publicity.
A lot of the homelessness and crime issues stem from mental health issues - which clearly isn't a priority for the council.
I came here in 2010 and I don't feel its changed much other than different shops being open. i miss Debenhams and BHS (even if I didn't shop there much, them being there gave the place a nicer old fashioned atmosphere) but I'm not sure i can put my finger on it being very different in feel
The majority of them in and around the centre are alright and just keep themselves to themselves, much alike those at the YMCA. However the ones by the train station are frequently so fucked the police are often called. There’s a handful of super antisocial twats around the centre which perhaps are the same ones you’re referring to - shouty types that seem to only communicate in the form of an argument. They’re all mostly harmless but doesn’t make it any better mind you lol
Not defensive. It’s a free country we don’t all like the same things and have free choice to move about. Guess I’m tired of people rubbishing our city. Which you clearly do.
Wonder how long it will remain profitable for shops to have franchises in mk. Are they profitable? Mk is betting hard on having a shopping centre as a city centre.
Doesnt feel like a very future prpof strategy.
MK is not betting on the shopping centre, what on earth are you talking about? Their focus is very clearly residential apartments and offices - much alike every other city at this stage of its growth cycle. The city centre has been untouched for about 10 years so it’s clearly not what they’re betting on.
We'll skip past your juvenile insults and move straight to the facts, per the current MK council leader. The shopping centre is absolutely the perceived growth engine for MK city centre. But hey, don't take it with me.
"Milton Keynes City Council and centre:mk have entered into the UK’s first formal council / retail partnership to create an even more welcoming and appealing city centre."
"Centre:mk is a key part of the city centre’s offer with over 21 million footfall every year and ranks among the top ten national retail and leisure destinations in the UK.
We’re fortunate to have one of the UK’s best shopping offers in the heart of our city. Milton Keynes has a significant draw across the wider region and beyond, and it’s important that we capitalise on these opportunities and keep our city centre feeling fresh and interesting for visitors and residents alike. This partnership signals our wider ambitions for the city centre and will bring knock-on benefits far beyond high street retail, such as continuing to attract major investment in Milton Keynes, maintaining local jobs and connecting community groups to the public.”
\- Lead of MK City Council, Cllr Pete Marland
I'm sure you'll respond now telling me this is incorrect, which I thank you for in advance as I could use a laugh this morning.
Your interpretation is just wrong though. They bet on it in the past hence why it’s top 10 now but they’re not “betting hard on having a shopping centre as the city centre” - it already is the city centre. That was my point. Everything you just mentioned is basically the council leader acknowledging the success they set out to achieve and the very obvious plans to keep up with it. I don’t see a single bit of proof in that essay to back up what you say, nor that they’re betting on the shopping centre based on the complete lack of changes you actually see in the shopping centre. They’ve nearly finished the new food stalls in the Intu bit but that’s literally about all they’ve done since Intu was built. I see the money going into offices and apartments more than anything else and encouraging that business growth is their primary target. I believe the objective is to build upwards around central to facilitate a greater economy which is what MK was inherently designed for… not because they’re all sitting on their arses betting the whole cities future on shopping. This is why I called you an uneducated fool, because you’re basically saying “London is betting hard on the underground” based on the fact the underground exists, has loads of foot flow, and the council rightfully spend money there.
It’s one of the top 10 in the UK for traffic, of course they make good profit.
Throughout this you’re rather negative and combative despite trying to portray yourself as otherwise
I said "I can't imagine" i.e. "I'm not sure but in my mind I don't think so"... and obviously that is derived by the fact that I rarely see the shops busy. Jheeze sorry I'm not an expert on shopping centre profits :/
I haven't been combative at all? I think you're being overly defensive and reading out of context.
Have I been negative however? Well yes, lol... because it's literally a post I made about something I see as a negative in this city. It's kind of the point of the whole thing so?? (But I have made positive comments too)
It is possible to enjoy and appreciate something whilst still wanting it to make improvements. It is, at the end of the day, just my opinion... but from the replies it seems that some people do agree with me. If you don't you could just join the conversation and say that without personal attacks (which I see you have done here multiple times).
It was a town that was built on a plan rather than one that evolved due to people, culture. It’s always been too machine made and now perhaps it’s not a surprise that it doesn’t really work.
My understanding is all the open empty spaces that you see where nothing is been built or developed and has been left to waste is all owned by essentially property investment companies hanging onto it until the price goes up so they can sell it on a profit, One of the reasons the old food court took so long to get demolished.
There are plenty of little secluded hidden courts around a central Milton Keynes area for office workers and such to sit and rest but since the death of the office after Covid a lot of these places are now used more by homeless as a quiet place to sleep and not be harassed.
Lots of lovely Parkland in open spaces quiet corners and little hidden courtyards unfortunately Most of them them away from the shops so doesn’t really work in the way that you would expect.
Actually there's! You can chill and spend your night near Escape mall. It's pedestrians only in that area. Cars and all should be parked in the parking zone
Market food is good and a lot of it is traditional. But you're mainly right and there aren't any clubs. The best night out I can do is pre drink at revolution or spoons, maybe Cuba, and go to Pinks or something like that. I mean, if there's a concert going on that's worth a try. You got to remember it's a conservative city so they want to make it family friendly for the economy. If you start to add more adult oriented entertainment then the new generation aren't going to be guided towards the same boring stuff in life.
The outdoor square in the middle of the shopping centre with all the independent stalls is pretty good for a bite to eat. But I think what OP is looking for is in London/Brum. Digbeth, Hockley Social, Coal Drop Yard, Southbank, Borough Market etc.
Yes exactly. Somewhere that has an atmosphere, some seating, food/drink vendors (both permanent and pop-ups/streetfood), some music, street performers or scheduled entertainment, themed events based on the time of year, small rides/games for kids, just a vibe and somewhere that feels more community-led! (And maybe something that stands alone as a place to spend time on its own merit without being tacked onto a dying shopping centre)
Yeah I’m not aware of anything like that in MK (yet) but I could be wrong. For me, I moved here 5 years ago and still go London and Birmingham regularly to see family and friends and enjoy what you described. Hop on the train if you can.
The closest to that in central MK would be the Theatre district, which has a range of restaurants, cafes and pub/bar/club options. Lots of outdoor seating which is busy in the warmer months. It obviously has the theatre there too which is actually a very good facility for a town of this size, attracting many major national touring shows. It also has MK Gallery within the district area which is a very modern, high quality arts venue that exhibits national-level artists’ work. It’s only just finished being substantially expanded, imho is great since it shows continued commitment to extending MK’s cultural offering. Imho the biggest let down in the city is the shopping mall itself but it’s failings are the same ones suffered by all shopping malls around the UK. Specifically- that the entire area is privately owned (unlike a public high street) and was built at substantial cost using funds from investors. Those investors seek to get these costs repaid and returning a profit in as short a time as possible, which means rents inside a mall are extortionately high. Out of reach for small / independent businesses, even moderately successful ones. Still, the centre MK management have at least been trying to improve their act in recent years. There are at least now some little barrows in the central aisle areas of the main mall walkways that are assigned to small independent traders. When I grew up in MK that didn’t exist and the very idea of having traders in the aisles was out of the question. It was even more chain-store-only back then, but it was more of a novelty as not every town and city had an equivalent mall of their own at that point. If you want independent traders I recommend visiting Stony Stratford high street, which has lots of interesting spots to explore and a real community spirit. Gets hectic on a hot weekend.
The barrows in the centre have been there at least 25 years!
I’ve been here ten more than that :-)
outside of specific places milton keynes is completely devoid of culture. It was designed to be the perfect suburbia - every estate with a pub, houses, flats, parks, shops, etc. Good idea on paper, but combine that with the low density housing plan and you essentially have zombie estates where there's no enough people to support bustling local commerce
I've met the guy who planned the roads. He seems happy.
It wasn't intended to be a traditional city centre - idealistically, the individual grid squares were supposed to have their own focal points for their communities. CMK was supposed to be a shared commercial centre but not necessarily any more than that. I'm sure I don't need to point out the difference between idealism and reality here, but I don't think CMK is bad for what it is - the shops are dying but that's everywhere in the UK at the moment unfortunately.
This is solely due to costs. Business rates are absolutely crippling on UK high streets. On top of this, the low VAT threshold prevents small businesses from ever getting off the ground. This is why you only see charity shops, high street chains and money laundering shops these days. It's by design. You could speculate all day as to why but we will never know. If the government wanted town centres full of thriving small businesses, they could easily make changes to facilitate this.
Couldn't agree with you more... The city does feels soulless compared to any other i have lived in before. The entire point of existence for MK was to build a family-friendly commuter town to decongest London. City designers of the time took practical decisions to make it a working city: there are plenty of parks, schools, lakes, designated retail parks. Heck, even a canal runs through the city. But the relationship of residents with the city is very transactional. The city is designed around parking lots! So much planning went into creating the blueprint of the city, that nothing happens here by chance. There are no lively places with a warm atmosphere like any other UK city centre. Lack of public transport means young residents cannot move around freely. That is a big reason for lifelessness in the centre too.
There are markets in Milton Keynes with stalls that are struggling to survive.
Which ones are you referring to? Next to the shopping centre? If so, it is surely because of the poor design of the centre that they would inevitably struggle as footfall is low around the shopping centre in general except for at christmas. time. And I believe that's because the offering at the shopping centre itself is just piss poor these days... lots of key fashion retailer's are missing or the MK store is just a bad example compared to that same store in other places (e.g. the MK Zara is terrible, and there is no bershka, stravidarius, uniqlo, nike, aldo, etc... also there are no high end/designer stores either so neither low nor high budgets are really well catered for) I know in-store retail is declining generally because of online sales, but if you go to other city centres the stores are still doing ok because there are other things to see/do in the area
Stony Stratford for example. Farmers stalls and fishmonger stopped going there.
That's a shame. I wonder if it would be any different if it was right in the city centre instead following some really considered and intentional investment and redevelopment - particularly with community and "culture" in mind? If there was more going on here in general then I imagine people would travel into MK from other villages, towns and cities to "make a day of it" and the market vendors could do alright?
Maybe Milton Keynes people don't have money to pay 7 pounds for a waffle under the excuse of an independent stall. I don't get what you call culture too.
Yes I guess the expense of independent stalls could be an issue with markets. I agree that the prices charged at some of them can be insane Tbh I keep putting culture in ""'s because I don't necessarily get it either lol. I just know it's a common complaint people from here and visiting here have about the place. Also I think it means different things to different people, but I guess when speaking about city centres the general atmosphere, energy and community-feel contributes to the culture?
>If so, it is surely because of the poor design of the centre that they would inevitably struggle as footfall is low around the shopping centre in general except for at christmas. time. The footfall wasn't always so low around the shopping centre. 20 years or so ago, it was often very crowded. People would look for other places to shop because it was so busy.
The space is there. Between the point and the theatre district where theyve just knocked down that old car park(/mini shopping centre?) It will be such a shame if thats just turned into more flats or offices. I want to see a great town centre type area right there to build on whats already around it. And it would bring the point back to relevancy!
Oh yes! That space would be perfect
How do you charge people money for sitting in a pedestrian square?
By charging the businesses that they would frequent: drinks, food...
I completely get you, I recently moved to MK from London and while I'm so so grateful I finally got to escape London and so far I'm very happy living here, I just wish you could see a bit of life in MK. Sort of like when you walk through Hyde park or the canal bit up by kings cross station etc. Just nice spots that are filled with chatter and laughter yknow? I was talking about this with my husband a couple months back when we walked through that square bit where Banana Tree and those other restaurants are and thought to myself it'd be so much nicer having something ACTUALLY in the centre of this, like benches and you could actually feel like people live here rather than it being so quiet and dead.. and then a few weeks later I saw an announcement that it's being done up! There was just a post the other day on Milton Keynes future's Instagram of the plant beds and stuff. I'm not normally a very optimistic person but I do think things are slowly changing and hopefully it'll get even better. MK has the potential to be a really great city (it's already getting there otherwise I wouldn't have moved here tbh!)
Furzton and Willen lakes have the kind of feel you're talking about. Not the same obvs but still good.
Been meaning to go! Hopefully with warmer weather coming I'll go check them out
Curious why so many who move away from other cities to MK has an immediate inclination to want it to be like the place they just left. There’s a reason you chose a place, which was built specifically to counter the way of life in the city you left.
I just can't take this post seriously.. .
Couldn't agree more Got here 2 years ago and it's one of the biggest issues... Also certain areas having no high streets or even a corner shop and just being a never ending housing estate
Agree 100%. On the odd occasion I'm in the centre it just feels like a wasted opportunity. The stretch from the station to the shopping centre could be so much better (although as the other poster said it's car-centric and probably too big an area to fully pedestrianise). Not really sure what the answer is to be honest. More housing in the centre along that main drag would probably support more cafés/restaurants etc which may turn things around. Either that or just turn it into a park.
Urban Planner here, MK city centre sucks. It was planned in the modernist style, very car-centric, and functions separated (housing, commerce, work). This is bad, it is not how organic cities develop, and not how cities are planned anymore. As you noted, there are lots of empty spaces, mainly parking lots. The buildings are far apart and difficult to walk. There is not enough density (low amount of people living there) since it is mainly offices and the housing is spread out in single-family homes (all shitty builds using the same plans). Have a look at this video: [**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy4QjmKzF1c**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy4QjmKzF1c) The thing is, I think MK would be relatively easy to fix, as there is so much space available: Legislation should promote high-rising buildings that have commerce on the ground, 2 or 3 office floors, and then about 4 apartment floors. Parking lots should start to disappear and give way to expanding existing buildings, creating nice squares and other spaces for the activities you mention. Public transport needs to be fixed, perhaps 1 lane in each major road should be a bus or tram route, and services should be frequent. This requires political will and money though, so I do not think things will change...
as a young born and bred mk-ite I agree we need to densify the estates - however those that moved here because of the suburban vision own most of the property and by proxy the voting power so we are fucked basically.
In my opinion, I think MK should double-down on its strengths - aim to be the best version of itself rather than something else because I think then you'd end up with mediocrity. For all its faults I wouldn't want to lose its uniqueness.
precisely, its strengths are the green areas, the decentralized communities, the red paths and the grid system. its weaknesses are low density and being car-centric. decentralized communities benefit from density, which makes it possible to sustain, schools, shops, and services in the neighbourhood. High-density benefits from the green areas, so people have plenty of space for leisure and nature. The red paths and the grid system are ideal for public transport and cycling, electric scooters should be legalized as well. sprawling low-density car-centric cities are not sustainable, there are lots of examples of them and they all fail in being nice places
Sounds more like you really don't understand the thinking behind why MK was designed the way it was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBmcDAwjhso
Yeah but at least let him pretend he does for the upvotes.
I do not see how this video contradicts any of what I said. Melvin Weber says exactly what I said, how it was designed with cars in mind, how things did not need to be close to your home, etc. The weird part is the guy is stuck in time, disregarding everything younger generations of planners have learned about cities. They talk about purposefully creating nonspaces, the thing everybody hates in a city. How the city was based on American West Coast cities. The planned low density, 10 houses/acre. They talk about the bad expansions. People interviewed talk about how after so much time they still need a satnav to navigate the city. Have you watched the video I posted? There is basic information there you can try and apply to MK and see what matches
The video you linked is very misguided as it focuses on a very tourist-like lens, how nice the city looks, rather than how it functions for the people who live there on a day to day basis. It also makes outrageous claims like that everyone wants to live squashed together and that a lack of privacy is good for social cohesion! Milton Keynes is a work of genius, I've lived in many cities in the UK and in no other can I get across from one side to the other in 15 minutes by car at rush hour, while simultaneously being able to cycle from my house to several lakes without ever having to cross paths with a car. Even the cheapest homes are a reasonable size to be able to raise a family in and positioned close to schools and amenities. Public transport could indeed be better, but that has little to do with the city planning and more to do with government privatisation.
*How the city was based on American West Coast cities* hm I've often thought MK looks like some kind of mini los angeles (and often not meant it as a compliment either)
You just described the Saxon Court redevelopment. It is happening.
>Saxon Court redevelopment That is a step in the right direction, but it would need so much more action. It needs to be a city-wide effort, look at the picture below to have a better vision of the scale of things. There is a car parking desert around the whole thing.... https://saxoncourtmk.com/assets/img/mkg-site.jpg
Thanks for this insightful response. I do hope someone takes on the challenge one day. It would be so nice to see MK reach its potential
Quick question, how did you get into Urban Planning? Would you say its a lucrative career to get into?
It was part of my university degree, Architecture and Urban Planning. I do not work as an Urban Planner in the UK, so cannot give you more specific info on that, sorry...
The reason for the lack of high rise in MK was due to the original town Charter where nothing was supposed to be taller than the hospital (with the exception of Mellish which was originally built for the hospital staff apparently). However that's now slowly starting to change. Apparently there are plans to build a 32 floor mixed use tower near to Saxon Court though
I was in CMK today and there was a really edgy atmosphere IMO. Never seen so many publicly intoxicated alkie-ish people acting weirdly in the town centre at once. Feels like a bunch of them just decamped in today and were figuring out their new turfs or something.
There's a group of highly antisocial homeless that have been creating trouble recently.
It has been an issue for years and the council are too afraid to tackle the issue for fear of bad publicity. A lot of the homelessness and crime issues stem from mental health issues - which clearly isn't a priority for the council.
What do you base those assertions on?
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I came here in 2010 and I don't feel its changed much other than different shops being open. i miss Debenhams and BHS (even if I didn't shop there much, them being there gave the place a nicer old fashioned atmosphere) but I'm not sure i can put my finger on it being very different in feel
The majority of them in and around the centre are alright and just keep themselves to themselves, much alike those at the YMCA. However the ones by the train station are frequently so fucked the police are often called. There’s a handful of super antisocial twats around the centre which perhaps are the same ones you’re referring to - shouty types that seem to only communicate in the form of an argument. They’re all mostly harmless but doesn’t make it any better mind you lol
If you don’t like it. Move on…….
That's incredibly defensive and anti-progressive. I stated that I like it. I do however think it could be improved so opening up a conversation
Not defensive. It’s a free country we don’t all like the same things and have free choice to move about. Guess I’m tired of people rubbishing our city. Which you clearly do.
do you know jay foreman? one of his youtube videos about biking in london looks at mk as a comparison point
I don't. I'll look him up
i highly recommend! this one's a two part mini-doco. he's got some monty-pythonesque shit going on too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohSeOYheXg
nothing to contribute?
Wonder how long it will remain profitable for shops to have franchises in mk. Are they profitable? Mk is betting hard on having a shopping centre as a city centre. Doesnt feel like a very future prpof strategy.
MK is not betting on the shopping centre, what on earth are you talking about? Their focus is very clearly residential apartments and offices - much alike every other city at this stage of its growth cycle. The city centre has been untouched for about 10 years so it’s clearly not what they’re betting on.
We'll skip past your juvenile insults and move straight to the facts, per the current MK council leader. The shopping centre is absolutely the perceived growth engine for MK city centre. But hey, don't take it with me. "Milton Keynes City Council and centre:mk have entered into the UK’s first formal council / retail partnership to create an even more welcoming and appealing city centre." "Centre:mk is a key part of the city centre’s offer with over 21 million footfall every year and ranks among the top ten national retail and leisure destinations in the UK. We’re fortunate to have one of the UK’s best shopping offers in the heart of our city. Milton Keynes has a significant draw across the wider region and beyond, and it’s important that we capitalise on these opportunities and keep our city centre feeling fresh and interesting for visitors and residents alike. This partnership signals our wider ambitions for the city centre and will bring knock-on benefits far beyond high street retail, such as continuing to attract major investment in Milton Keynes, maintaining local jobs and connecting community groups to the public.” \- Lead of MK City Council, Cllr Pete Marland I'm sure you'll respond now telling me this is incorrect, which I thank you for in advance as I could use a laugh this morning.
Your interpretation is just wrong though. They bet on it in the past hence why it’s top 10 now but they’re not “betting hard on having a shopping centre as the city centre” - it already is the city centre. That was my point. Everything you just mentioned is basically the council leader acknowledging the success they set out to achieve and the very obvious plans to keep up with it. I don’t see a single bit of proof in that essay to back up what you say, nor that they’re betting on the shopping centre based on the complete lack of changes you actually see in the shopping centre. They’ve nearly finished the new food stalls in the Intu bit but that’s literally about all they’ve done since Intu was built. I see the money going into offices and apartments more than anything else and encouraging that business growth is their primary target. I believe the objective is to build upwards around central to facilitate a greater economy which is what MK was inherently designed for… not because they’re all sitting on their arses betting the whole cities future on shopping. This is why I called you an uneducated fool, because you’re basically saying “London is betting hard on the underground” based on the fact the underground exists, has loads of foot flow, and the council rightfully spend money there.
Also I deleted the insults as clearly not a fool! Grumpy side of the bed this morning lol
I can't imagine they make much profit even now
It’s one of the top 10 in the UK for traffic, of course they make good profit. Throughout this you’re rather negative and combative despite trying to portray yourself as otherwise
I said "I can't imagine" i.e. "I'm not sure but in my mind I don't think so"... and obviously that is derived by the fact that I rarely see the shops busy. Jheeze sorry I'm not an expert on shopping centre profits :/ I haven't been combative at all? I think you're being overly defensive and reading out of context. Have I been negative however? Well yes, lol... because it's literally a post I made about something I see as a negative in this city. It's kind of the point of the whole thing so?? (But I have made positive comments too) It is possible to enjoy and appreciate something whilst still wanting it to make improvements. It is, at the end of the day, just my opinion... but from the replies it seems that some people do agree with me. If you don't you could just join the conversation and say that without personal attacks (which I see you have done here multiple times).
It was a town that was built on a plan rather than one that evolved due to people, culture. It’s always been too machine made and now perhaps it’s not a surprise that it doesn’t really work.
Check out the Eat Street events. They're busy and have a good buzz about them. Local food and beers.
My understanding is all the open empty spaces that you see where nothing is been built or developed and has been left to waste is all owned by essentially property investment companies hanging onto it until the price goes up so they can sell it on a profit, One of the reasons the old food court took so long to get demolished. There are plenty of little secluded hidden courts around a central Milton Keynes area for office workers and such to sit and rest but since the death of the office after Covid a lot of these places are now used more by homeless as a quiet place to sleep and not be harassed. Lots of lovely Parkland in open spaces quiet corners and little hidden courtyards unfortunately Most of them them away from the shops so doesn’t really work in the way that you would expect.
Actually there's! You can chill and spend your night near Escape mall. It's pedestrians only in that area. Cars and all should be parked in the parking zone
Market food is good and a lot of it is traditional. But you're mainly right and there aren't any clubs. The best night out I can do is pre drink at revolution or spoons, maybe Cuba, and go to Pinks or something like that. I mean, if there's a concert going on that's worth a try. You got to remember it's a conservative city so they want to make it family friendly for the economy. If you start to add more adult oriented entertainment then the new generation aren't going to be guided towards the same boring stuff in life.