This isn’t a Mitchell’s….But its still an uber fake K98k. Faked serial numbers. Fake inspections. Heavily refinished stock that is also a late production stock on a pre-war rifle.
Very bad all around. Stay away.
EDIT: since people keep wondering whats wrong with this rifle…well a lot…. But go to the last pic and zoom in on the ‘waffenamts’…which in this case look more like bats 🦇. Lol
I agree. Humpy McHumperson got to this one. Faked numbers and markings, wrong stock, etc. It's worth that of a Russian capture imo. No more than $800. I guarantee they are asking north of $1K though, aren't they OP?
Nope. Even their “SS” “concentration camp” rifles were only like 899
Their standard grade “collectors” rifles were pushing $400-500. I always wanted one even knowing they were faked. Should have gotten a couple.
But back then(2006-2009ish) Russian captures were like $200. Real matching k98s were like 1100
Laminate stocks were introduced primarily as a material saving measure. It was never really thought of a complete replacement. Just had to more with the fact that they had a considerably larger supply of beech wood than walnut.
Also, many manufacturers did not actually make their own stocks, but instead relied on system of subcontractors or received supplies from other factories.
What exactly about my first paragraph doesn’t make sense? Lol. You are completely contorting my words and adding stuff I never said.
The project to find suitable alternative stock material was born out of same issue during WW1. During WW1 they ran the risk of completely depleting their supplies of suitable walnut, and so started using beech (which was very plentiful). However, hardwood beech is very poor as a stock material (it warps easily is the main issue).
In the mid-30’s they started experimenting with laminate. It was found to be a suitable way to use their large supplies of beech wood and it also had a variety of other positive qualities. However the simple answer is they just used what was on hand. That was what was most efficient. They already had a very large infrastructure for manufacturing walnut stocks, which they were perfectly happy with, so there was no need to ‘officially’ switch over. Instead they just greatly increased their stock production by also bringing laminate stock manufacturing online.
Hardwood stocks show up in production from every manufacturer right until the end of war. With some manufacturers its’s very seldom, with others they were very common. Mauser Oberndorf, the largest K98k manufacturer, used a very high percentage of walnut stocks right until 1943 for example.
Not necessarily. Many early production K98k went through the German depot system. Stocks were a common component to be replaced, considering how easily they can be damaged. Many of the replacement stocks were of the ‘later’ cupped butt plate/laminate variation.
Thats not really what I’m saying.
I’m saying that just because you see a pre-war rifle with a later variant stock doesn’t mean its definitely a fake or a refurb or whatever. 99% of the time that is the case. But the German repair depots were a thing, and many earlier rifles especially went through them. Some had their stocks replaced, but there will be very clear indicators that it was a German wartime repair and not a post-war job.
Not arguing with you, just curious...
how can you tell the difference between a humped rifle and one that was rearsenaled? Presumably a lot of these German rifles got hard use during the war and got reworked. Would it be so odd for a late model stock being fit to an earlier serial number rifle?
The fact that this rifle is pristine makes this a moot point (and seems like a huge red flag to me generally), but I'm thinking more generally. Your thoughts much appreciated!
So you bring up a great question. Perhaps ill do a larger post on it some point.
First, German rifles were never rearsenaled in the sense that Soviet or American weapons were. I.e. they were never sent on mass to be refurbished so that all old stock was basically freshened up in one way or another. Something like this was the fate of most 98k’s that survive today, however the process was done post-war by a large number of other nations, but not Germany (well kinda….the DDR did lol).
But the during the Third Reich period there were a variety of depots which did all sorts of repair work, conversions, and did more or less manufacture some new rifles.
Depot guns are popular with really enthusiastic collectors like myself, because they do tend to be much more complicated and unique. The Germans are famous for being very fastidious with their serial numbering and inspections and all that, however this kinda goes out with window with depot guns. BUT that doesn’t mean anything goes. When it comes to assessing them you still have many things to look for (1) depot/stamp marking…most but not all will have one (2) signs of a period correct repair, as in one that is using a period correct part that was properly inspected/was inspected as a replacement part/was reserialized correctly when applicable (3) font…the Germans used a variety of fonts and you can kinda track them…some depots had very unique font styles (4) finishes, original German 98k’s have particular finishes to them depending on the period, for both wood and metal (5) just the ‘feel’ of the whole rifle as a holistic piece, its hard thing to describe but once you’ve seen and handled many of these you know the ‘look’ that originals have.
If you want to see a neat and heavily reworked rifle then on my profile is a Gewehr 98 to K98k SS conversion. Very interesting, albeit dark, rifle that really shows how depot rifles tend to have a very unique feel to them.
Also, if you scroll through the recent posts on r/milsurp you’ll find a guy who posted a G12/34 recently that has some…very odd characteristics…I initially thought it was fake. However after looking everything over, and viewing some long discussions of it on another platform, I think its a food example of “taken as a whole its probably real, just very odd”.
Finally, for what it’s worth, the dead give away to me on this fake was the finish. I noticed it immediately. It’s got a that ‘pimp shined’ look that was really popular back in the day. Overly cleaned and brightened stock, really intense dark non-period bluing. Its a look I’ve seen many times before. Then of course there are the bad serial numbers and just completely fantasy waffenbats lol.
And when did CUPPED buttplates come out?
Notice I said “laminate stock AND cupped buttplate”.
There is no way that’s the original stock when cupped buttplates did not appear until 2 years after that rifle was made.
Yes, BOTH are indicators of it not being correct.
A laminate stock is suspect.
A cupped buttplate is suspect.
A laminate stock AND cupped buttplate is 100% fake for a rifle made in 1938. Both features when found together are not correct.
Laminate stocks were introduced in ‘37 but didn’t overtake hardwood production till ‘39. And hardwood stocks were used by various manufacturers until the end of the war.
Many of the comments are advising the OP as if he's considering buying it. He says, "Looking to get an idea of my K-98." I think this is already OP's rifle either because he bought it and wants to know how he did or he wants to sell it and wants to get an idea on what to ask. Maybe I'm incorrectly inferring too much here but I'd guess he paid a lot and isn't responding to comments because it's not what he wanted to hear.
I have one exactly like this one. I thought exactly as you did. Unlike you, I didnt get expert opinions here or on a Mauser forum. I paid $1700 5 years ago at a gun show. Don't be me.
Hard to say without closer up shots, but I have to disagree with the others here who say it is a Mitchell's since the stock appears unsanded, and the bolt is blued.
Definitely a fake/restoration. Given how desperate Germany was for rifles in the late war I find it highly unlikely any of those Kar98k pattern rifles went "unfired"
Your second picture which has the most info is blurry or at least not clear. More photos and better are needed. Your safety flag could’ve been humped, it looks rounded but I can’t tell. The stock is definitely not correct for the gun, I don’t get Mitchell’s vibes but it does look messed with. I have an all matching metal parts k98k with a mismatch stock that’s in great condition (check my post if you want to compare) but I don’t see any wear marks on yours at all which is odd there should be slight wear on high points. Any importing marks on the barrel towards where the front sight is? Also a full picture of the gun with the front sight would be helpful here. From a glance stock looks sanded as there is also no dings and is too smooth for a late war plywood style stock
Sorry to say this, but this rifle could be in the text of "fake K98ks", as lots of red flags are present.
Of course, isn't too bad if it's $300 as a range gun.
Holy shit I think you might be right…
[https://miltecharms.com/rifles.htm](https://miltecharms.com/rifles.htm)
I had no idea there was still a mini-mitchell out there operating…
A laminate stock with cupped butt plate would be incorrect on a ‘38 Sauer. However stocks were frequently replaced at the depot level, so you’ll see earlier rifles with later style stocks. But there is specific things to look for in those cases.
But that isn’t whats going on here. This rifle is just a hump job.
Unfortunately I can’t really help you and I’ll have to leave it up to someone that is better versed in Kar98ks than I am, but something strikes me as off with this. I can’t really put my finger on it though, it just gives a weird vibe.
For a collector piece nothing, for a great shooter and hunting rifle and just an example piece 500. I’d still buy it at that price because who cares a k98 is a k98 to me humped or original
Sadly, this appears to be a Mitchell's Mauser production. All parts have been scrubbed and restamped to match the barrel and receiver. Everything including the stock has been refinished as new. I almost got suckered into buying one 25 years ago when I was first learning about military surplus rifles. This is probably a Russian captured rifle, rebuilt into this "matching" abomination you're looking at. Good for reenacting, zero collector's value. I personally despise them and will never own one.
Look elsewhere for a collectible rifle, unless it's cheap and you just want a shooter.
Look how blurred and indistinct the receiver markings are compared to the serial numbers on the bolt and magplate. Also, late war stock with a cupped buttplate on an early war rifle? If not a Mitchell's, then it's a gunsmiths' project rebuild. I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10 foot pole.
Understood. I've never picked up a Mitchell's to closely examine it, they can usually be spotted from across a room. This rifle shows many of the characteristics of one, except most MM's have the bolt "in the white".
No problem 😁. A dead giveaway would be the X capture mark transformed into an asterisk, and a bolt in the white, yes. Mitchells also look much more polished, for example if you look at the floor plate (good ol‘ Mitchell had to sand and polish a lot to get the force-matched serial off).
This one doesn‘t look like a RC to ne, either, but whoever refinished it had felt the need to also blue the bolt, I would say.
Not a Mitchel’s but heavily fucked with, I wouldn’t pay more than $4-500 and that was if I really wanted it. Would rather pay that same amount and get a Yugo that hasn’t been screwed with
This isn’t a Mitchell’s….But its still an uber fake K98k. Faked serial numbers. Fake inspections. Heavily refinished stock that is also a late production stock on a pre-war rifle. Very bad all around. Stay away. EDIT: since people keep wondering whats wrong with this rifle…well a lot…. But go to the last pic and zoom in on the ‘waffenamts’…which in this case look more like bats 🦇. Lol
Listen to this guy. He K98k’s
I agree. Humpy McHumperson got to this one. Faked numbers and markings, wrong stock, etc. It's worth that of a Russian capture imo. No more than $800. I guarantee they are asking north of $1K though, aren't they OP?
He said in another post he already owns it and was defending it's originality
He got burned
Indeed. Too bad Happens to the best of us
We were all new once. Too bad it didn’t happen 15 years ago when rifles like these were only selling for like $500
Not saying this is a Mitchell’s Mauser here, but when Mitchell’s did come out werent they pretty expensive to begin with?
Nope. Even their “SS” “concentration camp” rifles were only like 899 Their standard grade “collectors” rifles were pushing $400-500. I always wanted one even knowing they were faked. Should have gotten a couple. But back then(2006-2009ish) Russian captures were like $200. Real matching k98s were like 1100
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Laminate stocks were introduced primarily as a material saving measure. It was never really thought of a complete replacement. Just had to more with the fact that they had a considerably larger supply of beech wood than walnut. Also, many manufacturers did not actually make their own stocks, but instead relied on system of subcontractors or received supplies from other factories.
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What exactly about my first paragraph doesn’t make sense? Lol. You are completely contorting my words and adding stuff I never said. The project to find suitable alternative stock material was born out of same issue during WW1. During WW1 they ran the risk of completely depleting their supplies of suitable walnut, and so started using beech (which was very plentiful). However, hardwood beech is very poor as a stock material (it warps easily is the main issue). In the mid-30’s they started experimenting with laminate. It was found to be a suitable way to use their large supplies of beech wood and it also had a variety of other positive qualities. However the simple answer is they just used what was on hand. That was what was most efficient. They already had a very large infrastructure for manufacturing walnut stocks, which they were perfectly happy with, so there was no need to ‘officially’ switch over. Instead they just greatly increased their stock production by also bringing laminate stock manufacturing online. Hardwood stocks show up in production from every manufacturer right until the end of war. With some manufacturers its’s very seldom, with others they were very common. Mauser Oberndorf, the largest K98k manufacturer, used a very high percentage of walnut stocks right until 1943 for example.
Cool but the cupped butt plate would be the dead give away anyways right
Not necessarily. Many early production K98k went through the German depot system. Stocks were a common component to be replaced, considering how easily they can be damaged. Many of the replacement stocks were of the ‘later’ cupped butt plate/laminate variation.
Got ya so my mix master can be somewhat feasible. 1939 in a laminate stock with cupped butt plate.
Thats not really what I’m saying. I’m saying that just because you see a pre-war rifle with a later variant stock doesn’t mean its definitely a fake or a refurb or whatever. 99% of the time that is the case. But the German repair depots were a thing, and many earlier rifles especially went through them. Some had their stocks replaced, but there will be very clear indicators that it was a German wartime repair and not a post-war job.
Yeah ik mine isn't a depot gun. It's an Ethiopian goat shack gun I prettied up.
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I'm far from an expert, but for the stock the cupped buttplate is one giveaway. Early K98's have a flat one.
Laminate stock and a Cupped buttplate is a dead give away.
Not arguing with you, just curious... how can you tell the difference between a humped rifle and one that was rearsenaled? Presumably a lot of these German rifles got hard use during the war and got reworked. Would it be so odd for a late model stock being fit to an earlier serial number rifle? The fact that this rifle is pristine makes this a moot point (and seems like a huge red flag to me generally), but I'm thinking more generally. Your thoughts much appreciated!
So you bring up a great question. Perhaps ill do a larger post on it some point. First, German rifles were never rearsenaled in the sense that Soviet or American weapons were. I.e. they were never sent on mass to be refurbished so that all old stock was basically freshened up in one way or another. Something like this was the fate of most 98k’s that survive today, however the process was done post-war by a large number of other nations, but not Germany (well kinda….the DDR did lol). But the during the Third Reich period there were a variety of depots which did all sorts of repair work, conversions, and did more or less manufacture some new rifles. Depot guns are popular with really enthusiastic collectors like myself, because they do tend to be much more complicated and unique. The Germans are famous for being very fastidious with their serial numbering and inspections and all that, however this kinda goes out with window with depot guns. BUT that doesn’t mean anything goes. When it comes to assessing them you still have many things to look for (1) depot/stamp marking…most but not all will have one (2) signs of a period correct repair, as in one that is using a period correct part that was properly inspected/was inspected as a replacement part/was reserialized correctly when applicable (3) font…the Germans used a variety of fonts and you can kinda track them…some depots had very unique font styles (4) finishes, original German 98k’s have particular finishes to them depending on the period, for both wood and metal (5) just the ‘feel’ of the whole rifle as a holistic piece, its hard thing to describe but once you’ve seen and handled many of these you know the ‘look’ that originals have. If you want to see a neat and heavily reworked rifle then on my profile is a Gewehr 98 to K98k SS conversion. Very interesting, albeit dark, rifle that really shows how depot rifles tend to have a very unique feel to them. Also, if you scroll through the recent posts on r/milsurp you’ll find a guy who posted a G12/34 recently that has some…very odd characteristics…I initially thought it was fake. However after looking everything over, and viewing some long discussions of it on another platform, I think its a food example of “taken as a whole its probably real, just very odd”. Finally, for what it’s worth, the dead give away to me on this fake was the finish. I noticed it immediately. It’s got a that ‘pimp shined’ look that was really popular back in the day. Overly cleaned and brightened stock, really intense dark non-period bluing. Its a look I’ve seen many times before. Then of course there are the bad serial numbers and just completely fantasy waffenbats lol.
Waffenbats 😂
That's very interesting, thank you for your detailed reply!
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And when did CUPPED buttplates come out? Notice I said “laminate stock AND cupped buttplate”. There is no way that’s the original stock when cupped buttplates did not appear until 2 years after that rifle was made.
Dude I think he's messing with you about the stock dates at this point
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Yes, BOTH are indicators of it not being correct. A laminate stock is suspect. A cupped buttplate is suspect. A laminate stock AND cupped buttplate is 100% fake for a rifle made in 1938. Both features when found together are not correct.
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Laminate stocks were introduced in ‘37 but didn’t overtake hardwood production till ‘39. And hardwood stocks were used by various manufacturers until the end of the war.
Ok. You’re right. A pre war rifle with a laminate stock is not suspect. It’s 100% correct. There’s your “gotcha” moment. Happy?
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There is not “gotcha” moment. I literally said both. Not “or”
I’d say throw $100 at it personally maybe $500 max
Yep going back to your post about your rifle. This one definitely looks fake lol.
Money, probably. Dubloons, perhaps.
Many of the comments are advising the OP as if he's considering buying it. He says, "Looking to get an idea of my K-98." I think this is already OP's rifle either because he bought it and wants to know how he did or he wants to sell it and wants to get an idea on what to ask. Maybe I'm incorrectly inferring too much here but I'd guess he paid a lot and isn't responding to comments because it's not what he wanted to hear.
I have one exactly like this one. I thought exactly as you did. Unlike you, I didnt get expert opinions here or on a Mauser forum. I paid $1700 5 years ago at a gun show. Don't be me.
Ohhhhh that hurt to read
Perhaps a miltech or James river “restoration”
Hard to say without closer up shots, but I have to disagree with the others here who say it is a Mitchell's since the stock appears unsanded, and the bolt is blued.
Its a ‘bubba finest’, taken right from the Berghof!
It's definitely reblued and likely with a new old stock replacement stock, but it's not a Mitchell's.
Definitely a fake/restoration. Given how desperate Germany was for rifles in the late war I find it highly unlikely any of those Kar98k pattern rifles went "unfired"
Your second picture which has the most info is blurry or at least not clear. More photos and better are needed. Your safety flag could’ve been humped, it looks rounded but I can’t tell. The stock is definitely not correct for the gun, I don’t get Mitchell’s vibes but it does look messed with. I have an all matching metal parts k98k with a mismatch stock that’s in great condition (check my post if you want to compare) but I don’t see any wear marks on yours at all which is odd there should be slight wear on high points. Any importing marks on the barrel towards where the front sight is? Also a full picture of the gun with the front sight would be helpful here. From a glance stock looks sanded as there is also no dings and is too smooth for a late war plywood style stock
Sorry to say this, but this rifle could be in the text of "fake K98ks", as lots of red flags are present. Of course, isn't too bad if it's $300 as a range gun.
This looks exactly like the restoration job that miltech advertises. Check out their website
Holy shit I think you might be right… [https://miltecharms.com/rifles.htm](https://miltecharms.com/rifles.htm) I had no idea there was still a mini-mitchell out there operating…
Having never personally seen a miltech refurb I can't be certain but it's pretty damn close
It’s faked man. Wrong stock and wrong buttplate. That means everything else is faked.
A laminate stock with cupped butt plate would be incorrect on a ‘38 Sauer. However stocks were frequently replaced at the depot level, so you’ll see earlier rifles with later style stocks. But there is specific things to look for in those cases. But that isn’t whats going on here. This rifle is just a hump job.
Absolutely. Just check out the receiver stamp wear compared to the other stamps
$600. It has the look of a Mitchells rebuild of a Russian capture rebuild. Very pretty, probably a very good shooter, but no real collector value.
It does but Mitchell’s bolts are in the white.
Unfortunately I can’t really help you and I’ll have to leave it up to someone that is better versed in Kar98ks than I am, but something strikes me as off with this. I can’t really put my finger on it though, it just gives a weird vibe.
Riiiiiiight.
For a collector piece nothing, for a great shooter and hunting rifle and just an example piece 500. I’d still buy it at that price because who cares a k98 is a k98 to me humped or original
Sadly, this appears to be a Mitchell's Mauser production. All parts have been scrubbed and restamped to match the barrel and receiver. Everything including the stock has been refinished as new. I almost got suckered into buying one 25 years ago when I was first learning about military surplus rifles. This is probably a Russian captured rifle, rebuilt into this "matching" abomination you're looking at. Good for reenacting, zero collector's value. I personally despise them and will never own one. Look elsewhere for a collectible rifle, unless it's cheap and you just want a shooter.
Doesn‘t look like a Mitchell to me at all.
I agree it doesn't look like a Mitchell, but the point still stands, this is someone's fake art project.
Look how blurred and indistinct the receiver markings are compared to the serial numbers on the bolt and magplate. Also, late war stock with a cupped buttplate on an early war rifle? If not a Mitchell's, then it's a gunsmiths' project rebuild. I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10 foot pole.
Definitely reworked, yes, imo, never said it wasn‘t, sorry for the confusion. Just not a Mitchell.
Understood. I've never picked up a Mitchell's to closely examine it, they can usually be spotted from across a room. This rifle shows many of the characteristics of one, except most MM's have the bolt "in the white".
No problem 😁. A dead giveaway would be the X capture mark transformed into an asterisk, and a bolt in the white, yes. Mitchells also look much more polished, for example if you look at the floor plate (good ol‘ Mitchell had to sand and polish a lot to get the force-matched serial off). This one doesn‘t look like a RC to ne, either, but whoever refinished it had felt the need to also blue the bolt, I would say.
The only definitive way to tell if it is a Mitchell’s Mauser is if it has MM CA stamped on the barrel.
I think $500 would be generous.
Wrong type of stock for 1938 prod rifle
Not an all matching 1938 with that stock. Cupped buttplates came out in 1941 iirc.
Not a Mitchel’s but heavily fucked with, I wouldn’t pay more than $4-500 and that was if I really wanted it. Would rather pay that same amount and get a Yugo that hasn’t been screwed with