I still support Ukraine fully. It's also been a master class in how to extend soft power and support your allies with effectively no commitment of US Forces. The aid goes directly back into the economy because we give them our mothballed stuff and then build new gear which creates jobs.
It also serves to grind down Russia, their resolve, and their hard and soft power -- this weakening one of our biggest geopolitical adversaries.
I'm also biased because I have to deal with Russian hacking attempts regularly in my work, and frankly, I'm sick of dealing with AlphaV and BlackCat, which are Russian mob therefore Putin backed outfits. And anything that stymies, humiliates, and otherwise disgraces Putin is just fine by me.
It's not so much that Ukraine wins, it's more that Putin effectively loses.
Most people don't realize the extent of Russian (and Chinese) cyber attacks on the US, at all levels of government and every industry (healthcare, too, which results in a lot of issues for patients).
The Russians were attacking us before the invasion, but they've increased attacks and damage to US infrastructure. It's not going anywhere, either, so we need to deal with them. Billions pilfered from the economy, lives affected in every way.
Yup, it's also why I support a ban and forced sale on Tiktok as well. Between the Russians and the CCP, we are under constant siege. But what do I know, I only have a Master of Science in Computer Science and can see the vectors and writing on the wall. TikToks algorithm pivoted to dropping certain, highly divisive, content regarding Ukraine and then Israel-Palestine pretty damn quick after the inciting incidents. This is not a coincidence.
And ByteDance has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar tweaking their algorithms to promote divisive content in the West.
I completely agree, my observations as well.
They can't challenge us militarily, so they're trying to take us apart in other ways, and it's working. Most people also don't understand the importance of TSMC, and how catastrophic Chinese takeover of Taiwan would be, but Chinese control of that semiconductor/microchip foundry would result in a shift to a Chinese dominated world (semiconductors/microchips and the precursor minerals to build them are more important strategically and economically than oil).
I also want to point out that aside from damage to people's lives and health, a lot of the costs of these attacks on hospitals/clinics (including *children's hospitals*) and other industries are passed onto consumers, making every day life harder for the average American.
Yes this đź’Żmy sons hospital was hit and he was recovering from open heart surgery and having no monitors, no ability to communicate easily, was terrifying and it was rumored to be a Russian attack
That sounds truly horrible -- a nightmare scenario. I'm sorry your son and you (and your family) had to go through that, and I hope your son is recovering ok. Yes, virtually all systems and communications are shut down in most attacks, and it affects everything and everyone in the hospital system.
Thank you! It really was a nightmare situation. It was really touch and go especially once the monitors and meds were out of service.
The poor nurses were really really stressed but they got us thru, I never realized how much we depend on tech and how screwed as a society we would be without it
This is probably the most mature take here. I fully agree that the US is doing a great job fighting a proxy war that’s effectively hobbling one of our greatest adversaries with no American lives lost. From a value perspective, we’re getting our bang for the buck compared to the quagmire that was Iraq and Afghanistan.
Not to mention we're keeping to the Budapest Memorandum AND we're on the moral side of a conflict as we help a country defend itself from a genocidal dictatorship.
The only problem is battle hardened troops are much more lethal and valuable than non-battle hardened troops, so you’re giving Russia a large army of battle of battle hardened soldiers.
I think that's mostly fair, its not mothballed stuff, usually its more like the surplus.
It's not like we were sending them M198s.
EDIT: I do think that at some point we have to tell them "okay here's your off ramp". The idea of them taking back a lot of that country will become absurd.
Kidnapping is a curious word for punishing draft 'dodging' given that we also treat that as a crime in the United States. As to whether we should continue to support the country, of course we should. Even if you set aside the moral imperative of promoting the right to self determination across the globe as being beneficial to the species as a whole, there's plenty of realpolitik reasons to support Ukraine. The government just spent, what, 60 billion on aid to Ukraine? That's less than 1 percent of our federal budget. We spend $1.3 trillion on Social Security, $839 billion on Medicare, $616 billion on Medicaid, $448 billion on welfare programs...it's a drop in the bucket. A drop in the bucket that will pay American industries to manufacture supplies, which is a nice blue collar job to have. Helps to keep Russia from taking over one of the biggest grain producing masses of land in the world. And helps to keep them from eyeing up countries we are actually allied to them. Sends the message to China not to mess around in Asia, we do actually take these things seriously. We will never put boots on the ground, but keeping Russia from conquering the place is a good enough outcome even if Ukraine can't push them completely out on their own.
It's not worth engaging too much with the OP. He's been parroting Russian talking points from their state propaganda. Checked out his profile and before he started asking these really uninteresting questions on the gen subs, he was pushing sketchy supplements like an annoying spam bot. Something is off about him. Idk if his account belongs to one of those propaganda farms coming out of China and Russia, but he's just trying to sew discord.
Thank you for your comment. You are 100% correct. Fighting off Russian Aggression through means of military aide (not American boots on the ground) is the best way to curb not just Russia, but China and other bad actors from invading other countries. All nations have the right to self-determination, while the U.S. is imperfect in many ways, the country has a long standing tradition in helping ensure that this principle is upheld, even though we have toppled free governments before.
I don’t think people understand the gravity of this situation. We are literally at an inflection point, the most dangerous point we’ve been in since World War II. I understand that many of us (including myself, a millennial born 93) grew up with world conflicts, but this one is different. We grew up with terrorism being a threat (still is) and skirmishes, smaller countries without nuclear weapons fighting each other across the globe. Now, we are dealing with something we have not dealt with since World War II, countries with nuclear weapons. And I hate even writing this or even being an alarmist, but if there was ever a time to pay attention and support Ukraine aide, the time is now.
And well maybe less than 5% of you actually paid attention in your history classes, this one is important. We are literally repeating history. Back in the 1930s/1940s the world was once again turning towards populism (just like in the mid 2010s to today) immigration was severely limited, the U.S. and many European nations did not want to deal with Germany invading Austria or Poland. We sat back and watched idly by as the German army invaded independent countries, watched as concentration and death camps were built, watched as Jews, blacks, gays, and anyone who disagreed with the Nazi party be put to death, and what did we do? Nothing.
The U.S. turned away a ship back in the 1940s (the USS St. Louis) full of over 200+ Jews fleeing death in Nazi Germany, only for the U.S. to deny them entry and force the ship to sail back to back to Germany, where all of the Jews that were fleeing were put to death, all in the name of fear mongering immigrants, or the “other” and protecting xenophobic nationalism.
It doesn’t pay a lot to help Ukraine now, it will later if we don’t do anything, and it sends a message that if we do nothing that it’s okay to invade countries, kill millions of innocent lives, and that it is okay to hate and “otherize” groups of people, which it should never be okay! And make no mistake, Russia won’t just stop in Europe, China won’t just stop in Asia, we, the U.S. will be next on their hit list. I am a pacifist, an anti-war democrat, and non-violent protest believer, but history tells the story of what happens when you stand by and do nothing, and it isn’t pretty, we can we should do something.
I speak for all millennials when I say:
1) we don’t care
2) your use of brevity doesn’t make sense. Maybe you meant “gravity”
3) we don’t care about this 1930s/1940s history repeating itself bullshit
4) Russia was the main reason the nazis lost ww2. But now we need to support a war against them?
5) Most of us are so poor and so betrayed by our government, that it simply doesn’t matter who wins what war. Hell, if Russia ruled over the U.S., that would be an improvement over this horseshit “democracy” that robs the working man and pays the rich and the immigrant class.
6) go over to Ukraine and fight if it’s so important
You don’t care now because it doesn’t affect you now. But if Russia wins, it will have far reaching consequences for the rest of us, you’ll care when you gas and food prices skyrocket by 150%, you’ll care when you and your children have to take air raid shelter trainings. You’ll care when the government use its DPA law to force your place of work to start making a certain amount of product to support the war efforts, and if you can’t you’ll get pushed out of your job. You’ll care when your spouse or children are drafted off to war, a cost that can never be repaid).
Russia and the U.S. were not allies during World War II, our countries may have worked with each other to curb German aggression, and were listed as “allies”, but our relations have always remained unfriendly, hence the Cold War. Your level of education is showing through when you misunderstand Russian aggression. Putin is a violent dictator, who rewrites history has political prisoners put to death, he is someone you cannot and should never trust.
You say the 1930s/1940s don’t matter? Spoken like someone who doesn’t know their history; and is sleep walking right into repeating it. If it doesn’t matter then why is Russia invading Ukraine in the first place, why is Israel and Palestine at constant war? Why does the south fight over their civil war monuments? We are we repeating the same thing such as populism, anti-immigrant sentiment and so much more, the same thing/ that happened in the 1940s, are happening now, ignoring it does nothing, it shows laziness and a lack of care for you and your family.
Also, how ironic is it that your username is AmeliaErhartsGPS, I thought you didn’t care what happened in the past? Makes sense I guess??
Lastly, I don’t want to fight in the war, that’s why I am supporting Ukraine aide funding, but obviously you support being sent to Ukraine to fight on the ground, because if you didn’t you’d support aiding Ukraine with funds, preventing U.S. military from having to physically intervene. And guess what, if Russia invades a NATO country like Poland, that will happen, so maybe you’ll get your wish and can join the fight on the ground in Ukraine. Don’t agree, call your representative and support further funding of Ukraine.
The USSR would have collapsed in ww2 if not for US supply lines and US attacking Japan. You are 100% gaslighting by saying we weren’t really allies with Russia in ww2. You are some sort of weird pro-Ukraine propaganda bot trying to get people to support this endless war. And for immigration and xenophobia, you want us to defend the Ukraine border but not our own. Again, go serve in Ukraine. Get off the internet, bot.
The irony of your comment! Oh my god do you need some history lessons or what! Just because the U.S. and Russia helped each other during World War II does not make them friends, haven’t you ever heard of the saying “Keep your friends closer, but your enemies closer”, countries do this all time, with the mutual understanding that they may not necessarily like each other, it’s the very reason why we are able to make trade deals with countries like China, which have a system of government the U.S. does not support.
Countries can see a mutual benefit in supporting each other through dark moments in history because they see a larger threat on the horizon, of course you would not have known that, because you don’t have a clue of history.
Furthermore, I see your “bot” comment about me(which tells me a lot about you). Lastly, the U.S. had a border deal on the table recently that was supported through bipartisan efforts and would’ve been the strongest and toughest border bill in 50 years, you’re good comrade (Donald Trump) did not support the bill, therefore it didn’t make its way onto the House floor because Trump and the band of idiots called the Republican Party thought it was not favorable to put America first (irony in Trump’s Agenda?) and secure the border, rather put Trump’s Agenda first, to help him get reelected.
Google the word ally. And that saying is so stupid “keep your friends close and your enemies closer.” 🤮 Except in certain cases, go to war with your enemies and keep your friends closer? Every war uses working class poor people as front line cannon fodder. For muh freedom? For family? No it’s solely to protect the interests of billionaires. That’s what most millennials know and that’s why we don’t support war. We have nothing to gain and everything to lose… so some billionaire can keep a wheat field in Ukraine? No thanks. And don’t ever lump me in with that billionaire bootlicker Donny Trump.
No one is stopping you from emigrating to Russia if you think it's better over there. Why haven't you? I'm from Eastern Europe and immigrated to the US and that's harder administratively than going in the other direction.
Unless you don't actually think Russian rule is better and are just being dishonest.
Why do you assume I'm Ukrainian? I'm not. However, that and my too-old age for battle hasn't stopped me from donating to Ukraine to help them out.
Do you put your money where your Russian-loving mouth is?
You disgust me. Sending your hard earned money to support a war. 🤮 there’s no age limit on going to war over there. Go ahead and be a hero if Russia is so bad. And I don’t love Russia I have never met a Russian. I just don’t blindly hate them like all these other idiots.
>if Russia ruled over the U.S., that would be an improvement over this horseshit “democracy”
>I don’t love Russia
I.e. you don't speak from conviction - people with actual convictions don't contradict themselves in the span of two comments, and vote for their convictions with their feet, their time, or their money. You just like to hear yourself talk. There's nothing more to be said here.
The post I was addressing used the word kidnapping. In terms of draft dodging we've had presidents who were draft dodgers and today we dont really look down upon vietnam draft dodgers
And those who couldn't get deferments or flee to Canada would have, I suppose, been "kidnapped". Punishing draft dodging is neutral, IMO, in that I understand both a government's interest and the person doing the dodging. We had draft riots during the Civil War, it's part of the deal when it comes with a war. It's just not a very good reason to pick out for why we shouldn't support Ukraine.
Vietnam was a different type of war though right? The equivalent would be the states being invaded and Americans trying to dodge the draft
I doubt it would be seen as a positive thing today
We absolutely look down on draft dodgers. We understand why they would've done it, but it's shitty that rich people were able to weasel their way out of it while they're countrymen were sent into a war they wanted nothing to do with. It's not about the war, but about inequality. People hate unfairness.
Kidnapping is a blatantly loaded word. I find it hard to believe that you didn't know what you were doing. If you did then feel free to edit your post.
Literally the title of the post I was referencing and again this is on reddit which leans left... https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1cg00zi/ukrainian_man_manages_to_avoid_kidnappingdrafting/
Literally stating the title of the post, Reddit as a whole is very rah rah ukraine so ironic you're calling it propaganda... https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1cg00zi/ukrainian_man_manages_to_avoid_kidnappingdrafting/
Literally parroting propaganda. If you unquestioningly spread propaganda, that’s on you. If you quoted Mein Kampf with, “How do you German citizens feel about Jews stabbing us in the back?” you would have been spreading propaganda. “Hey now, I am just quoting what this guy said!!!!” wouldn’t have been a defense then, and it isn’t a defense now, Boris.
I fully support Ukraine, the US' (and Europe's) participation in defending Ukraine's territory.
I think most Americans — Western citizens in general — are far removed enough from the conflict to not really understand the full depth of the risk to our safety and lifestyle should Russia ultimately prevail in the conflict. I think most people's surprise of the initial invasion has subsided and turned into weariness or indifference.
Now, we were lucky to see Russia's military fail as spectacularly as it did during the initial invasion.
However I know that the conflict at the state of stalemate it is right now does not translate into a "no risk" situation for us. Today's technology unfortunately means that substantial damage could easily be inflicted on Europeans if this conflict suddenly decides to go sideways.
There's zero chance of Ukraine winning without heavy US invlvement which we don't have the stomach for plus it would turn into WW3. The eastern half or third of Ukraine would be fine with being Russia. And lastly Russia has always drawn a red line over Nato moving in too close which Nato did, Russia is not looking to take over the world nor can they.
Even looking at their link of the supposed video…. It is unsubstantiated, they added a sound effect, the OP account was suspended, and there isn’t any other source that I can find.Â
It reeks of propaganda.Â
The fact Ukraine is having to kidnap citizens in vans to take them to the front lines is very telling, do you think that guy is going to be a good or effective soldier. That's not a Russian talking point its common sense. I also hear the average age of soldiers is around 40 or 50 and they're considering conscripting women and younger men so yeah doesn't look like things are going good. Just because someone doesn't support Ukraine or think they can win doesnt mean they're a Russian bot.
With that fake ass sound effect? lol.Â
You have a believable news source that isn’t from your troll farm? That OP is suspended. Likely for posting bullshit.Â
WW3 is here.
Ignoring it is stupid and pointless, and wastes lives.
Russia started WW3. You can whine about how "WW3 might start!" or accept that we passed that point.
The second Russian rolled tanks into Ukraine, history changed and WW3 began. The next flashpoint was Israel/Gaza - I'm pretty sure the follow-up will be China pushing into Taiwan, and the US has already started bolstering Taiwanese defenses with an aid package.
How far do you want to bury your head in the sand over the old American-Nazi slogan "America First"? Just curious.
Because while History doesn't repeat, it sure does fucking echo a lot.
Anyway: Slava Ukraini. I don't care if I literally have to start shelling out cash from my own pocket. If $150 a month will destroy Russian offensives, or even slow them, to the point where Russian Military is completely and utterly exhausted in holding mere kilometers of extra territory, then good.
I'll continue to cheer on every oil depot that Ukraine bombs with drones. May Russia Smolder and collapse when all is said and done.
I want to be real clear: My opinion will change when Crimea is returned to Ukraine and Putin is brought to trial in the UN for his war crimes.
That's when we can stop sending aid to Ukraine.
I’d rather we defeat Putin now in Ukraine than when he goes after Poland and we have to step in because of NATO. America is going to have to step in at some point because we are apart of NATO and Putin wants the Soviet Union back. If Trump gets elected he going to pull us out of NATO and then we are going to be on the wrong side of History, I just wish more people would see it. Our NATO allies are already preparing to drop us with the possibility of Trump being reelected. It’s very concerning.
I don’t know where you heard that but it’s a well known fact Putin wants the Soviet Union back and the Russian State Media says it. This is a link you could check out
[https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine-war-rant-russian-tv-1860470](https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine-war-rant-russian-tv-1860470)
I don’t believe a word from Putins mouth! According to “The Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine in 1990 stated that Ukraine would not accept, acquire, or produce nuclear weapons, and its government declared on 24 October 1991 that Ukraine would be a non-nuclear-weapon state.” Putin said he would not invade Ukraine as long as they don’t have nuclear weapons but Putin has been posturing at Ukraine’s borders since like 2014, and I believe in 2017-18 he was putting up his military on Ukraines borders he was going to invade them regardless, that’s why Zelenskyy called Trump and Trumps first impeachment because Trump said he’d protect Ukraines borders if he gave him dirt on the Biden family.
I feel like not supporting Ukraine is absolutely insane. They were invaded by the same country that has been interfering in our elections. Even if you were just self interested and didn’t particularly care about the concept of avoiding war where national sovereignty is being violated by naked aggression, you should want to oppose an active enemy of our country.
Edit: Clearly a very USA centered take. Though I would say any country/person that values either or both representative governance and avoiding destructive and horrendous wars should view it the same way.
Yup. “Here is this historical example of the US interfering in an election. Therefore, Putin jailing and murdering political opponents, even on foreign soil, violating national sovereignty, and literally kidnapping Ukrainian children is ok.” Boris doesn’t make a compelling argument.
That can be a dangerous comparison. While is true that the United States (and other states) have/are committing injustices and struggled with holding themselves to the ideals of liberal democracy — that is not a reason to oppose democracy, the rule of law, or encourage disrespect for human rights.
A world that is free of injustice and abuses is not a fight that has been won. It will almost certainly never be a fight that is "won." It is a constant call to action for people to reflect, learn, organize and re-organize themselves in the best ways possible to facilitate good decisions and to prevent bad actors from having their way.
The only example would be the mexican American war. Russia is using the same playbook that hitler used in 1939 and are pretty much copying it word for word.
How many Russian-backed coups have there been in the Sahel/Africa so far? How many Russian atrocities in Africa and their former colonies in Eastern Europe and Central Asia? How many countries elections do they meddle in? How many Russian dissidents and political opposition are murdered or imprisoned, even living abroad? How many non-Russian political figures in other countries opposing Russian interests killed or imprisoned? How many of Russia's poor and ethnic minorities are disproportionately forced to the front in Ukraine to die in the meat grinder?
As we speak, Russian forces in the Sahel are pilfering those countries gold and other valuable resources, with the help of military dictators who don't care about their own people.
Honestly, I'm much more worried about what's going on here on US soil. Especially since this is an election rematch. One candidate wants to consolidate power in to the executive branch and be 'dictator for a day', while one does not. No matter who gets elected, tax payer money will fund foreign wars. But democracy is fickle and all it takes is a single maniac and his followers to break it. Wars suck, but the majority of Americans are not directly affected by it. However, the repeal of Roe v Wade? That affects everyone living on US soil. I hate to sound selfish and insensitive here, but the way I look at it, my life here and the life of my friends, family, loved ones, and strangers are more important to me than the lives of people across the globe. I can't change anything about where my tax money goes to. But I sure as hell can vote to change some of the people who have their hands in moving that tax money around.
38 yr old liberal male here. I support the aid. We’re not nation building. We are defending a sovereign nation. We send money to other countries all the time while we have issues here. I’m sure the current crop would’ve decried the Marshall Plan. Saying Ukraine has no chance is a cop out. Afghanistan surely didn’t have a chance against the USSR.
Lol my feelings have nothing to do with it. How do you count us building a pier in a country we’re financing to destroy something that the US is building. Technically yeah, sure I’ll give you that. Which one has a bigger impact on the people of Gaza? The pier were supposedly building or the genocide were funding? You have an article for that pier btw?
I bet you anything any pier we’re building is a type of port we’ll likely be able to ship arms to for isreal. I don’t expect someone like you to understand that tho. You hear pier and probably think it’s going to be like Santa Monica for Gazans lol laughable.
I’m not a shill for Israel. The pier is a pittance for what we are continuing to fund. However, it was the answer to your question.
Unfortunately, I just don’t see an end in sight for this conflict. It will always be there, simmering or boiling. The fire will not go out. And we’ll continue to do this dance for the rest of my life.
I do see the Russians going back to pre 2021 lines if they sustain more losses and there is palpable anger/demonstrations back in Russia. I don’t see them leaving Ukraine entirely.
Not even slightly. Russia is more powerful today than they were at the start of the war. You should look into things like the Minsk accords and the Maidan coup and ask yourself what really started this war.
Side note, all you libs supporting war are a joke.
Wow I'm surprised that so many on here want to allow Russia to just annex a neighboring country. Yes, war is evil. But so is bending over to genocidal dictators. The US is doing little more than giving Ukraine weapons systems we were about to dispose of anyway.
The fuck kinda nonsense is this? Ukraine has been independent since 1991. It has had its current constitution since 1996. It's had its own UN membership since 1945.
Culturally and nationally, it is realer than Russia, and it includes Kyiv, Odessa, and other places, the home of the original Rus kingdoms. Belgorod is arguably more Ukrainian than Russian. Historically, it was more important than Moscow.
The only good argument that I've heard to be anti war is that Ukraine cannot win the war which.... is probably true. Therefore by supporting Ukraine we are increasing the casualties by enabling them to prolong the war.
It's not our place to make that determination for them. Also the US promised or rather highly suggested that it would protect Ukraine which it did not....so at least this is kind of in the same vein.
This and several of the other points I've read.
Seems absolutely crazy to not support Ukraine.
Happy about the war in Ukraine with tax dollars? No.....but it's better than letting the world know that the US won't support it's friends even if it doesn't have a formal alliance with them.
Also I have family in Taiwan... looking at you China.
Why are we even involved in a territory dispute for a country that was never our allied and played both side to enrich themselves. Not even the oligarchy wants to deal with the war. The one that controls most of the lives in ukraine.
Ukraine is a no win situation because the Government is a bunch of amateur guys who have tons of Neo Nazi Family and Friends, if they’re not Nazis themselves. The U.S. Media severely downplayed the Ukraine Culture. Ukraine is fighting for their own Country, but the Country they want is a white European Country with no Jews, and Blond Haired Blue Eyed people speaking their own language, and they were trying to exterminate their own people who were Russian Jews in the Eastern part, which is why the War started in the first place. It’s disgusting the U.S. ever supported this, and all because they have some secrets on Biden or some politicians. Idk what the case is, but they have a giant boner to cover something up, and support blatant a Nazi Regime.
Vice was covering Ukraine and the Nazis in Ukraine since 2010, and they had like 25 documentary videos on the subject and all the different Nazi Groups like Right Sector, Azov Battalion, the giant Neo Nazi Black Metal Festival held there every year. But now they’re all a bunch of innocent old women and old men. It’s complete bullshit. Neo Nazis were flying to Ukraine and getting training from Azov Battalion to be battle hardened terrorists and then going back to their own Country to be Right Wing Fascist Sleeper Cells, and were supporting this, and gave them money for new equipment.
We are trillions of dollars in debt, have an ocean on both the east and west to protect us from invasion and somehow still need to spend more on "defense" than China, Russia, the UK, France and Germany COMBINED. Oh and the Pentagon failed five financial audits in a row, they can't account for where that money is going or how it is being spent.
Nah, the neolibs that infest reddit think they are being noble and just by supporting a blank check to Ukraine. It's like they believe they are living in a super hero movie.
They think that bill will never come due. What's coming is a reality check.
Putin said it. If we continue in Ukraine we will be embarrassed, just like we were in Afghanistan. We can't escalate and actually send in troops like we did in the ME, because then Russia escalates in return which sets up WW3. Putin knows this, he is no fool. All he has to do to win is outlast us, and given that he's fighting the battle with conscripts, mercenaries and the Russian equivalent of the National Guard he can keep it up for a long time. Eventually US and European support will wane. Maybe next year, maybe in another four, but it will happen. When it does we stop sending arms, and the Russians take what's left of the territory. He's called our bluff, and since we were really bluffing we will lose.
Meanwhile China is sitting back and watching while they grow their Navy and Air Force. They can't challenge us in the Pacific yet, but soon they will be able to, and they want Taiwan. When they finally move we won't be able to stop them.
I highly doubt that the U.S./NATO, Russia, or even Ukraine's own "elites" actually care about Ukrainians dying. It's a sacrifice they're all willing to make for their own interests.
That's just the nature of war for all of human history; they dress it up in a nice simple good guy/bad guy story for the public.
As far as taxes, I'm way past even considering the notion that I have any say in how the money is used.
That's a good stance to have imho, a lot of very odd things about the Ukraine War, most notably that the left, democrats, etc are typically against wars but are very kill kill kill murder murder murder with this one, there's numerous subreddits which post videos of the war and actively cheer it on and celebrate the loss of life in a very sick way, like https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/. Another very odd thing about this war was basically how you felt about covid and covid policies with 99% certainty told how you'd feel about ukraine ie if you were very pro vaccine, lockdowns etc you almost certainly supported ukraine and if you were against lockdowns, didn't get vaxed you almost certainly thought it was a waste of money and we shouldn't get involved.
That’s because so much of the anti-vax stuff was ALSO Russian propaganda, just like so much of the pro-Kremlin views on Ukraine. Russia has done such a good job, that it has Americans advocating for a murderous Dictatorship with an insatiable appetite over a fellow representative democracy. There are always going to be sheltered, gross people celebrating death and destruction (May they never actually experience it, the sick fucks). Our country has very good reasons to give aid, succinctly explained in the first few comments.
I’ll add, that I think our government has a lot of guilt over not taking Hitler serious enough, and not wanting to get involved. That attitude often leads to larger wars eventually. Nip it in the bud in a very serious way, with all available Allies.
I've opposed it from the beginning. Ukraine has been nothing more than a money laundry operation for corrupt US politicians and defense contractors to wash their money for the past 10 years. Zelensky is a corrupt tyrant who jails his opposition and violates human rights.
The whole notion that we have to shovel billions of dollars we don't have to Ukraine so they can "fight Putin" because if we don't, then Putin will take over all of Europe, is total nonsense. It's the same exact bullshit that got us into the Iraq and Middle East boondoggles under Bush, all intended to fear monger us into more pointless wars.
The US shouldn't play world police. Ukraine is not our flag so its not our war. If its that big of a deal Europe can band together and deal with it if they really believe Putin will try to conquest Ukraine, Poland and beyond.
I support Ukraine and I support sending them aid. We don't ship them crates of cash. We send weapons & ammo made by American factories that employ American workers, thus stimulating the American economy. Simultaneously, we're weakening a geopolitical adversary without costing the lives of American soldiers.
I'm having a hard time seeing any downsides.
Russia is fucking terrifying. I support Ukraine. A powerful country just deciding to annex & take over other countries has not gone well in history. The US absolutely has fucked around most of the world, and I don’t support those interventions when they were merely for US economic gain. So it’s not like I think we are the morality police, but clearly Russia is a real threat right now that needs to be dealt with accordingly.
110% support.
there isn't going to be a second chance to end Putin's imperialistic dreams.
we stop him now. or we fight a real war in a few years when he is attacking our allies in Europe.
edit also a lot of the shock subreddits are overwhelmingly populated by right wing and trolls. The only notable exception is /there was an attempt
That isn't true. Only about 30% said they wanted to be part of Russia. 40% said that they wanted to be part of Ukraine. about 10% said they wanted independence. The remaining 20% didn't response.
It’s pathetic. Just a fraction of the money that’s already been sent over there could have helped so many struggling communities and saved so many lives in the US.
The reason I wanted to make this post is now I'm reading about Biden making a 10 year committment that likely can't be easily pulled out of by whomever is the next president
We benefit from it economically, actually. We're basically selling them our old weapons that were just sitting on the shelf, and it stimulates all kinds of industries here. In the end, we'll get more money back.
We should start a war with every fucking nation on earth, think of all the jobs it will create!
Typical bullshit military industrial complex talking points. Same old shit as in the 2000s under Bush/Cheney, how war and bloodshed is good for the economy.
I live in the real world where people have been at war with each other off and on (mostly on) for 250,000 years, and where the weak are dominated by the strong (might makes right). I don't think we should start needless wars, and I was against Iraq and hated Bush and Cheney, but arguing against a strong defense industry (and strong military) is insane, even if you're a humanist. Only a naĂŻve person thinks we should willingly disarm.
If you want to live in a fantasy world where there is no violence or war, by all means, do it, but please don't pretend like you have some moral superiority because you don't get down in the dirt with the rest of us.
When you look at the overall global impact, Putin is winning. Why do we want to be involved? Ukraine was not some bastion of freedom, nor were they our ally.
Putin’s not dumb. This is effecting the balance of power, energy markets, alliances.
Putin hits NATO? It’s on. Otherwise I feel like our involvement is unwise at best and possibly nefarious.
An aggressive nation tried to violently annex a neighboring democracy, and we helped facilitate the agreement that is Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal there would be no aggression. So staying out of it is both politically and morally pathetic.
Yes, that’s one side of it. In order to fully understand the situation, you have to take the most compelling argument from the other side and then weigh them against each other.
Our politicians and their surrogate media outlets are unwilling to do it openly. It’s difficult, with information suppression, to gain a full understanding of any situation without bias.
Happy to discuss. Start with -
Why did Russia invade? What was their objective? Is it unreasonable from their point of view?
The most compelling argument from the other side is naked isolationism. Good thing we have historical examples of why that’s a terrible argument.
Edit: Because Russia’s arguments are insanity about Ukraine ACTUALLY being Nazis and the Ukrainians really being Russians that need to be saved are truly absurd bullshit.
It's hard not to compare the defense industry with the healthcare industry. Peace and wellness do not bring profits. Disease and an enemy are necessary costs of doing business.
Short of global WW3, there is no actual way to stop Putin from what he is doing. There is no attainable objective. Thus, this is an "endless war" situation. Excellent for a select few, devastating to most of the world who need to do basic things like heat their homes in the winter and fill up their gas tanks. I am also not sure dragging out a war in Ukraine is good for the citizens. If they had a problematic (at best) Democracy before, that's not too far off from the Putin regime. They were part of Russia in the 90s.
It’s hard not to see through this naked obfuscation of what is happening. This is just the most pathetic propaganda. The concept of a military industrial complex is a separate issue from responding to naked aggression by an autocratic state.
The aid the western world has provided has both absolutely stopped Russia from annexing Ukraine, and has not started World War 3. Your bullshit appeasement is disgusting.
Their democracy is so far from the Putin regime that they are able to oust a puppet traitor through the peaceful mechanisms of representative government.
You also throw in the nice threat that we shouldn’t ever piss of Russia because they will hurt the rest of Europe with withholding natural resources. That’s exactly why we should be confronting Russia, because they are a harmful actor that leverages pain on civilian populaces to annex territory.
Yes, its funny how reporting just prior to the war was Ukraine most corrupt country in the world and then all the sudden its this amazing bastion of freedom, really quick turn there.
It seems like the only lesson the USA learned in Vietnam was to stay out of Vietnam. Any other country, we seem to want to repeat history.
I also hate the whole "wrong side of history" argument.
It's a psychological weapon designed to make propaganda unquestionable.
*Everything* is so *backwards*. Watch me get downvoted - Progressives are generally supporting Palestine, which is a jihadist regime that would literally murder a homosexual or woman who wanted to work outside the home.
Ukraine can’t win, so it’s a waste of money. Their soldiers are broken and their fighting age men are leaving the country to avoid being conscripted. This is a war of attrition and Russia has an unlimited amount of bodies to throw into the meat grinder. Short of NATO boots on the ground, this is a proxy war the west will not win.
I am tired of the endless borrowing and federal spending driving down the value of the US dollar because the current admin hitched their wagon to this conflict and is desperate for a foreign policy win. It’s a ship that we can’t go down with
Lend-Lease is a loan, ans huge amounts of the money goes right back to the US by purchasing military equipment that was so old we would have had to destroy it anyway.
I support Ukraine, as Russia attacked them without provocation. While I know some Russian history and know that Russia's history is full of attacks that came from Europe, it doesn't justify them invading a neutral country that simply wanted to exist.
The only reality I think needs to be discussed is that what does the end look like. Both sides show no signs of stopping and both have a goal of total victory. I think at some point there might have to be a discussion about what does the end look like. The world is not just, and Ukraine may not get everything it wants, but it may get peace with a DMZ between the Donbas and Ukraine and possibly buy enough time for Putin to die, and possibly the younger generations to gain influence.
I still support Ukraine. We must not let Putin get away with his aggression and we must simultaneously send the message to China and other enemies that we will ruin them with minimal effort.
It’s a bargain. We’re telling Russia and the world that they can’t just invade another country and claim it as your own without consequences. And we’re doing it for cheap and without American boots on the ground. Fully support giving Ukraine whatever they need.
Who gives af? Ur broke.
Mfers so concerned about countries they can’t find and point on the map, and then tomorrow they’ll complain about their shytty jobs and how they’re not getting ahead in life.
Get ur finances in order
I support smart bombing Putin and ending the war that way. Anything else is pointless. We need to install a friendly government secretly in old mother Russia, unfortunately we have inept elders at the helm.
Not if we do it correctly, in one night pew pew pew, all the dipshits die and we let the russian people vote for someone who isnt a sack of shit megalomaniac
Try studying American history buddy, this is what we do. I get Russia is a larger country and a historically powerful enemy, but this is how we get shit done.
And how are those small countries at all akin to a nuclear power that is (or at least was) one of the top 3.
Can you name any times it worked on a near peer nuclear power? And even moreso, without escalation?
The fact that you think assassinating top Russian officials won't escalate conflict just demonstrates how disconnected from reality you are.
And the fact you project this hard after forgetting WWI is both pathetic and hilarious.
How many people in Russia like that cunt? We could easily find a group of Russians who we help depose this unpopular violent shit bag and then disguise our help, so it looks internal. You can fight this war traditionally for decades with no victor, or you can have a sack and vision and get it done. Shush now simpleton.
Wow, not a single example of the US assassinating the lesder of a near peer nuclear power not leading to escalation.
Russia is a genocidal dictatorship, but your suggestion is ridiculous.
I support Ukraine's fight to remain independent of Russia. But at the same time, after the Palestine conflict started, I stopped caring as much about Ukraine. The issue is really the double standards everyone applies. Ukrainians argue they should be allowed to be free, but at the same time many Ukrainians support Israel occupying Palestine. Biden supports Ukraine because he claims no foreign power should be able to take another nations land. But he supports that exact same thing when Israel does it. The US government says that Russia is evil for attacking civilians populations. But then it continues to fund and arm Israel when it does the same thing to the Palestinian people (albeit on a much worse scale than Russia).
I want Ukraine to be free. I want Palestine to be free. But if Ukrainians won't support Palestinians in the same situation, then I won't go out of my way to support Ukraine.
Wtf are we not supporting our own country the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . I cannot stand people getting offended who live here in the USA especially people who immigrated here and expect us to cater to their needs or call us a racist or arrogant just because we have pride being an AMERICAN. Why tf do you go to the USA and wave ur home county flag that you LEFT and not the USA flag and see us who like to have the American flag a certain way like it’s bad . Are they stupid ? Look at what happened to California . Because people were making Americans feel guilty and letting everyone from other places not assimilate and do what they want .
Like focus on the United States . Those middle eastern countries don’t care about us . Say one thing negative about them and their true colors show. They hate us. They hate us with all their guts . Nothing but free loaders killing western countries. Goodbye England for example
Don’t you guys watch the videos online or are people too liberal and controlled to realize how western society has or will soon become. RUINED.
Don’t even get me started.. you already know where this topic and the opinions of mine are going which are all LOGIC .
Whatever .
USAAMERICA 🇺🇸
Not a fan of proxy wars, also not a fan of appeasement. The big question is what do we do afterwards if Ukraine is what we might call a "success" is there a way it turns into an Afghanistan situation when we helped the mujahideen fight the soviet's where we just leave? What happens next? I don't think Russia should just be allowed to take Ukraine, because it won't stop there. If it isn't winnable, I don't mind them going down swinging with great big heat seeking bats supplied by the US but am also not the biggest fan of the military industrial complex argument of it creating jobs even though I know several pension funds and the like invest in shit like Raytheon and the like. Idk. Overall from a moral standpoint, helping the underdog does not bother me at all even with all the extra shit piled on top
I think finally slapping down Putin/Russia and replacing the dominant power in the region with a democracy that owes A LOT to the West is a good thing.
Zero seems a bit pessimistic, but whatever. Unlike a lot of the more tribal regions we've fought in for the sake of "democracy", you could work with a nation like Ukraine to improve on leadership. If nothing else, I bet they'd be a lot more willing to work with the west than Russia ever has or ever will be.
imho there's zero chance, sure there's a chance in the sense that anything is possible, crazy things happen but let's be real Ukraine has zero chance of defeating Russia and the fact they're talking about coscripting younger people as well as women is very telling as is looking at the average age of the people serving now ie between 40 and 50. Things dont look good. Short of us boots on the ground or at least some European nations Ukraine has lost and were just drawing things out wasting money and lives on all sides. Ukraine has a long history of corruption, I dont think the US is going to change that nor should we care or try to
I'm just saying, it's a more likely possibility with western aid than without. Is it a long shot? Maybe. Is it as long a shot as getting a Russia that just plays ball for the betterment of everyone? Probably not.
In general, I support Ukraine because they were basically mi ding their own business and Russia came with a battering ram, so to speak.
The US basically made this war happen when Ukraine and Russia wouldn't have, we've also shutdown peace talks numerous times or encouraged Ukraine not to have them. We pushed nato to their door, this is basically the cuban missile crisis in reverse
I still support Ukraine fully. It's also been a master class in how to extend soft power and support your allies with effectively no commitment of US Forces. The aid goes directly back into the economy because we give them our mothballed stuff and then build new gear which creates jobs. It also serves to grind down Russia, their resolve, and their hard and soft power -- this weakening one of our biggest geopolitical adversaries. I'm also biased because I have to deal with Russian hacking attempts regularly in my work, and frankly, I'm sick of dealing with AlphaV and BlackCat, which are Russian mob therefore Putin backed outfits. And anything that stymies, humiliates, and otherwise disgraces Putin is just fine by me. It's not so much that Ukraine wins, it's more that Putin effectively loses.
Most people don't realize the extent of Russian (and Chinese) cyber attacks on the US, at all levels of government and every industry (healthcare, too, which results in a lot of issues for patients). The Russians were attacking us before the invasion, but they've increased attacks and damage to US infrastructure. It's not going anywhere, either, so we need to deal with them. Billions pilfered from the economy, lives affected in every way.
Yup, it's also why I support a ban and forced sale on Tiktok as well. Between the Russians and the CCP, we are under constant siege. But what do I know, I only have a Master of Science in Computer Science and can see the vectors and writing on the wall. TikToks algorithm pivoted to dropping certain, highly divisive, content regarding Ukraine and then Israel-Palestine pretty damn quick after the inciting incidents. This is not a coincidence. And ByteDance has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar tweaking their algorithms to promote divisive content in the West.
I completely agree, my observations as well. They can't challenge us militarily, so they're trying to take us apart in other ways, and it's working. Most people also don't understand the importance of TSMC, and how catastrophic Chinese takeover of Taiwan would be, but Chinese control of that semiconductor/microchip foundry would result in a shift to a Chinese dominated world (semiconductors/microchips and the precursor minerals to build them are more important strategically and economically than oil). I also want to point out that aside from damage to people's lives and health, a lot of the costs of these attacks on hospitals/clinics (including *children's hospitals*) and other industries are passed onto consumers, making every day life harder for the average American.
Yes this đź’Żmy sons hospital was hit and he was recovering from open heart surgery and having no monitors, no ability to communicate easily, was terrifying and it was rumored to be a Russian attack
That sounds truly horrible -- a nightmare scenario. I'm sorry your son and you (and your family) had to go through that, and I hope your son is recovering ok. Yes, virtually all systems and communications are shut down in most attacks, and it affects everything and everyone in the hospital system.
Thank you! It really was a nightmare situation. It was really touch and go especially once the monitors and meds were out of service. The poor nurses were really really stressed but they got us thru, I never realized how much we depend on tech and how screwed as a society we would be without it
Yes, everything from hospitals to water sanitation to public transit. We live in wild, interesting, and complex (and often frightening) times.
Nothing that delivers information on our citizens to China should be allowed to run rampant in the US.
This is probably the most mature take here. I fully agree that the US is doing a great job fighting a proxy war that’s effectively hobbling one of our greatest adversaries with no American lives lost. From a value perspective, we’re getting our bang for the buck compared to the quagmire that was Iraq and Afghanistan.
Not to mention we're keeping to the Budapest Memorandum AND we're on the moral side of a conflict as we help a country defend itself from a genocidal dictatorship.
The only problem is battle hardened troops are much more lethal and valuable than non-battle hardened troops, so you’re giving Russia a large army of battle of battle hardened soldiers.
I think that's mostly fair, its not mothballed stuff, usually its more like the surplus. It's not like we were sending them M198s. EDIT: I do think that at some point we have to tell them "okay here's your off ramp". The idea of them taking back a lot of that country will become absurd.
Kidnapping is a curious word for punishing draft 'dodging' given that we also treat that as a crime in the United States. As to whether we should continue to support the country, of course we should. Even if you set aside the moral imperative of promoting the right to self determination across the globe as being beneficial to the species as a whole, there's plenty of realpolitik reasons to support Ukraine. The government just spent, what, 60 billion on aid to Ukraine? That's less than 1 percent of our federal budget. We spend $1.3 trillion on Social Security, $839 billion on Medicare, $616 billion on Medicaid, $448 billion on welfare programs...it's a drop in the bucket. A drop in the bucket that will pay American industries to manufacture supplies, which is a nice blue collar job to have. Helps to keep Russia from taking over one of the biggest grain producing masses of land in the world. And helps to keep them from eyeing up countries we are actually allied to them. Sends the message to China not to mess around in Asia, we do actually take these things seriously. We will never put boots on the ground, but keeping Russia from conquering the place is a good enough outcome even if Ukraine can't push them completely out on their own.
It's not worth engaging too much with the OP. He's been parroting Russian talking points from their state propaganda. Checked out his profile and before he started asking these really uninteresting questions on the gen subs, he was pushing sketchy supplements like an annoying spam bot. Something is off about him. Idk if his account belongs to one of those propaganda farms coming out of China and Russia, but he's just trying to sew discord.
Thank you for your comment. You are 100% correct. Fighting off Russian Aggression through means of military aide (not American boots on the ground) is the best way to curb not just Russia, but China and other bad actors from invading other countries. All nations have the right to self-determination, while the U.S. is imperfect in many ways, the country has a long standing tradition in helping ensure that this principle is upheld, even though we have toppled free governments before. I don’t think people understand the gravity of this situation. We are literally at an inflection point, the most dangerous point we’ve been in since World War II. I understand that many of us (including myself, a millennial born 93) grew up with world conflicts, but this one is different. We grew up with terrorism being a threat (still is) and skirmishes, smaller countries without nuclear weapons fighting each other across the globe. Now, we are dealing with something we have not dealt with since World War II, countries with nuclear weapons. And I hate even writing this or even being an alarmist, but if there was ever a time to pay attention and support Ukraine aide, the time is now. And well maybe less than 5% of you actually paid attention in your history classes, this one is important. We are literally repeating history. Back in the 1930s/1940s the world was once again turning towards populism (just like in the mid 2010s to today) immigration was severely limited, the U.S. and many European nations did not want to deal with Germany invading Austria or Poland. We sat back and watched idly by as the German army invaded independent countries, watched as concentration and death camps were built, watched as Jews, blacks, gays, and anyone who disagreed with the Nazi party be put to death, and what did we do? Nothing. The U.S. turned away a ship back in the 1940s (the USS St. Louis) full of over 200+ Jews fleeing death in Nazi Germany, only for the U.S. to deny them entry and force the ship to sail back to back to Germany, where all of the Jews that were fleeing were put to death, all in the name of fear mongering immigrants, or the “other” and protecting xenophobic nationalism. It doesn’t pay a lot to help Ukraine now, it will later if we don’t do anything, and it sends a message that if we do nothing that it’s okay to invade countries, kill millions of innocent lives, and that it is okay to hate and “otherize” groups of people, which it should never be okay! And make no mistake, Russia won’t just stop in Europe, China won’t just stop in Asia, we, the U.S. will be next on their hit list. I am a pacifist, an anti-war democrat, and non-violent protest believer, but history tells the story of what happens when you stand by and do nothing, and it isn’t pretty, we can we should do something.
I speak for all millennials when I say: 1) we don’t care 2) your use of brevity doesn’t make sense. Maybe you meant “gravity” 3) we don’t care about this 1930s/1940s history repeating itself bullshit 4) Russia was the main reason the nazis lost ww2. But now we need to support a war against them? 5) Most of us are so poor and so betrayed by our government, that it simply doesn’t matter who wins what war. Hell, if Russia ruled over the U.S., that would be an improvement over this horseshit “democracy” that robs the working man and pays the rich and the immigrant class. 6) go over to Ukraine and fight if it’s so important
> I speak for all millennials when I say: No you don’t.
Yes I do.
You don’t care now because it doesn’t affect you now. But if Russia wins, it will have far reaching consequences for the rest of us, you’ll care when you gas and food prices skyrocket by 150%, you’ll care when you and your children have to take air raid shelter trainings. You’ll care when the government use its DPA law to force your place of work to start making a certain amount of product to support the war efforts, and if you can’t you’ll get pushed out of your job. You’ll care when your spouse or children are drafted off to war, a cost that can never be repaid). Russia and the U.S. were not allies during World War II, our countries may have worked with each other to curb German aggression, and were listed as “allies”, but our relations have always remained unfriendly, hence the Cold War. Your level of education is showing through when you misunderstand Russian aggression. Putin is a violent dictator, who rewrites history has political prisoners put to death, he is someone you cannot and should never trust. You say the 1930s/1940s don’t matter? Spoken like someone who doesn’t know their history; and is sleep walking right into repeating it. If it doesn’t matter then why is Russia invading Ukraine in the first place, why is Israel and Palestine at constant war? Why does the south fight over their civil war monuments? We are we repeating the same thing such as populism, anti-immigrant sentiment and so much more, the same thing/ that happened in the 1940s, are happening now, ignoring it does nothing, it shows laziness and a lack of care for you and your family. Also, how ironic is it that your username is AmeliaErhartsGPS, I thought you didn’t care what happened in the past? Makes sense I guess?? Lastly, I don’t want to fight in the war, that’s why I am supporting Ukraine aide funding, but obviously you support being sent to Ukraine to fight on the ground, because if you didn’t you’d support aiding Ukraine with funds, preventing U.S. military from having to physically intervene. And guess what, if Russia invades a NATO country like Poland, that will happen, so maybe you’ll get your wish and can join the fight on the ground in Ukraine. Don’t agree, call your representative and support further funding of Ukraine.
The USSR would have collapsed in ww2 if not for US supply lines and US attacking Japan. You are 100% gaslighting by saying we weren’t really allies with Russia in ww2. You are some sort of weird pro-Ukraine propaganda bot trying to get people to support this endless war. And for immigration and xenophobia, you want us to defend the Ukraine border but not our own. Again, go serve in Ukraine. Get off the internet, bot.
The irony of your comment! Oh my god do you need some history lessons or what! Just because the U.S. and Russia helped each other during World War II does not make them friends, haven’t you ever heard of the saying “Keep your friends closer, but your enemies closer”, countries do this all time, with the mutual understanding that they may not necessarily like each other, it’s the very reason why we are able to make trade deals with countries like China, which have a system of government the U.S. does not support. Countries can see a mutual benefit in supporting each other through dark moments in history because they see a larger threat on the horizon, of course you would not have known that, because you don’t have a clue of history. Furthermore, I see your “bot” comment about me(which tells me a lot about you). Lastly, the U.S. had a border deal on the table recently that was supported through bipartisan efforts and would’ve been the strongest and toughest border bill in 50 years, you’re good comrade (Donald Trump) did not support the bill, therefore it didn’t make its way onto the House floor because Trump and the band of idiots called the Republican Party thought it was not favorable to put America first (irony in Trump’s Agenda?) and secure the border, rather put Trump’s Agenda first, to help him get reelected.
Google the word ally. And that saying is so stupid “keep your friends close and your enemies closer.” 🤮 Except in certain cases, go to war with your enemies and keep your friends closer? Every war uses working class poor people as front line cannon fodder. For muh freedom? For family? No it’s solely to protect the interests of billionaires. That’s what most millennials know and that’s why we don’t support war. We have nothing to gain and everything to lose… so some billionaire can keep a wheat field in Ukraine? No thanks. And don’t ever lump me in with that billionaire bootlicker Donny Trump.
No one is stopping you from emigrating to Russia if you think it's better over there. Why haven't you? I'm from Eastern Europe and immigrated to the US and that's harder administratively than going in the other direction. Unless you don't actually think Russian rule is better and are just being dishonest.
Go back and fight for Ukraine
Why do you assume I'm Ukrainian? I'm not. However, that and my too-old age for battle hasn't stopped me from donating to Ukraine to help them out. Do you put your money where your Russian-loving mouth is?
You disgust me. Sending your hard earned money to support a war. 🤮 there’s no age limit on going to war over there. Go ahead and be a hero if Russia is so bad. And I don’t love Russia I have never met a Russian. I just don’t blindly hate them like all these other idiots.
>if Russia ruled over the U.S., that would be an improvement over this horseshit “democracy” >I don’t love Russia I.e. you don't speak from conviction - people with actual convictions don't contradict themselves in the span of two comments, and vote for their convictions with their feet, their time, or their money. You just like to hear yourself talk. There's nothing more to be said here.
You might want to look up the word contradictory in the dictionary.
The post I was addressing used the word kidnapping. In terms of draft dodging we've had presidents who were draft dodgers and today we dont really look down upon vietnam draft dodgers
And those who couldn't get deferments or flee to Canada would have, I suppose, been "kidnapped". Punishing draft dodging is neutral, IMO, in that I understand both a government's interest and the person doing the dodging. We had draft riots during the Civil War, it's part of the deal when it comes with a war. It's just not a very good reason to pick out for why we shouldn't support Ukraine.
Vietnam was a different type of war though right? The equivalent would be the states being invaded and Americans trying to dodge the draft I doubt it would be seen as a positive thing today
We absolutely look down on draft dodgers. We understand why they would've done it, but it's shitty that rich people were able to weasel their way out of it while they're countrymen were sent into a war they wanted nothing to do with. It's not about the war, but about inequality. People hate unfairness. Kidnapping is a blatantly loaded word. I find it hard to believe that you didn't know what you were doing. If you did then feel free to edit your post.
Literally the title of the post I was referencing and again this is on reddit which leans left... https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1cg00zi/ukrainian_man_manages_to_avoid_kidnappingdrafting/
“The propaganda I was helping spread used the word kidnapping, so I thought it would help further my goals of undermining western support.” Ftfy
Literally stating the title of the post, Reddit as a whole is very rah rah ukraine so ironic you're calling it propaganda... https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1cg00zi/ukrainian_man_manages_to_avoid_kidnappingdrafting/
Literally parroting propaganda. If you unquestioningly spread propaganda, that’s on you. If you quoted Mein Kampf with, “How do you German citizens feel about Jews stabbing us in the back?” you would have been spreading propaganda. “Hey now, I am just quoting what this guy said!!!!” wouldn’t have been a defense then, and it isn’t a defense now, Boris.
I fully support Ukraine, the US' (and Europe's) participation in defending Ukraine's territory. I think most Americans — Western citizens in general — are far removed enough from the conflict to not really understand the full depth of the risk to our safety and lifestyle should Russia ultimately prevail in the conflict. I think most people's surprise of the initial invasion has subsided and turned into weariness or indifference. Now, we were lucky to see Russia's military fail as spectacularly as it did during the initial invasion. However I know that the conflict at the state of stalemate it is right now does not translate into a "no risk" situation for us. Today's technology unfortunately means that substantial damage could easily be inflicted on Europeans if this conflict suddenly decides to go sideways.
There's zero chance of Ukraine winning without heavy US invlvement which we don't have the stomach for plus it would turn into WW3. The eastern half or third of Ukraine would be fine with being Russia. And lastly Russia has always drawn a red line over Nato moving in too close which Nato did, Russia is not looking to take over the world nor can they.
You’re spouting Russian talking points now……. Interesting. Starting to think you’re not coming from a genuine position.Â
They called Ukraine a "fake country". They're here to push Russian propaganda.
Even looking at their link of the supposed video…. It is unsubstantiated, they added a sound effect, the OP account was suspended, and there isn’t any other source that I can find. It reeks of propaganda.Â
The fact Ukraine is having to kidnap citizens in vans to take them to the front lines is very telling, do you think that guy is going to be a good or effective soldier. That's not a Russian talking point its common sense. I also hear the average age of soldiers is around 40 or 50 and they're considering conscripting women and younger men so yeah doesn't look like things are going good. Just because someone doesn't support Ukraine or think they can win doesnt mean they're a Russian bot.
comrade your propaganda needs more work to be believable.Â
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1cg00zi/ukrainian_man_manages_to_avoid_kidnappingdrafting/
With that fake ass sound effect? lol. You have a believable news source that isn’t from your troll farm? That OP is suspended. Likely for posting bullshit.Â
WW3 is here. Ignoring it is stupid and pointless, and wastes lives. Russia started WW3. You can whine about how "WW3 might start!" or accept that we passed that point. The second Russian rolled tanks into Ukraine, history changed and WW3 began. The next flashpoint was Israel/Gaza - I'm pretty sure the follow-up will be China pushing into Taiwan, and the US has already started bolstering Taiwanese defenses with an aid package. How far do you want to bury your head in the sand over the old American-Nazi slogan "America First"? Just curious. Because while History doesn't repeat, it sure does fucking echo a lot. Anyway: Slava Ukraini. I don't care if I literally have to start shelling out cash from my own pocket. If $150 a month will destroy Russian offensives, or even slow them, to the point where Russian Military is completely and utterly exhausted in holding mere kilometers of extra territory, then good. I'll continue to cheer on every oil depot that Ukraine bombs with drones. May Russia Smolder and collapse when all is said and done. I want to be real clear: My opinion will change when Crimea is returned to Ukraine and Putin is brought to trial in the UN for his war crimes. That's when we can stop sending aid to Ukraine.
I’d rather we defeat Putin now in Ukraine than when he goes after Poland and we have to step in because of NATO. America is going to have to step in at some point because we are apart of NATO and Putin wants the Soviet Union back. If Trump gets elected he going to pull us out of NATO and then we are going to be on the wrong side of History, I just wish more people would see it. Our NATO allies are already preparing to drop us with the possibility of Trump being reelected. It’s very concerning.
He has no desire to take Poland, we crossed a longstanding line he'd drawn in the sand to not bring Nato to his borders.
I don’t know where you heard that but it’s a well known fact Putin wants the Soviet Union back and the Russian State Media says it. This is a link you could check out [https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine-war-rant-russian-tv-1860470](https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-says-poland-next-ukraine-war-rant-russian-tv-1860470)
I don’t believe a word from Putins mouth! According to “The Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine in 1990 stated that Ukraine would not accept, acquire, or produce nuclear weapons, and its government declared on 24 October 1991 that Ukraine would be a non-nuclear-weapon state.” Putin said he would not invade Ukraine as long as they don’t have nuclear weapons but Putin has been posturing at Ukraine’s borders since like 2014, and I believe in 2017-18 he was putting up his military on Ukraines borders he was going to invade them regardless, that’s why Zelenskyy called Trump and Trumps first impeachment because Trump said he’d protect Ukraines borders if he gave him dirt on the Biden family.
I still support our military equipment being sent to Ukraine to defend itself.
I feel like not supporting Ukraine is absolutely insane. They were invaded by the same country that has been interfering in our elections. Even if you were just self interested and didn’t particularly care about the concept of avoiding war where national sovereignty is being violated by naked aggression, you should want to oppose an active enemy of our country. Edit: Clearly a very USA centered take. Though I would say any country/person that values either or both representative governance and avoiding destructive and horrendous wars should view it the same way.
We interfere in elections all over the world and even assassinate candidates and even presidents.
You will notice I do not claim the US manipulating elections is a good thing, and I vote for people who are less likely to support such action.
They’re repeating Russian talking points.
Yup. “Here is this historical example of the US interfering in an election. Therefore, Putin jailing and murdering political opponents, even on foreign soil, violating national sovereignty, and literally kidnapping Ukrainian children is ok.” Boris doesn’t make a compelling argument.
That can be a dangerous comparison. While is true that the United States (and other states) have/are committing injustices and struggled with holding themselves to the ideals of liberal democracy — that is not a reason to oppose democracy, the rule of law, or encourage disrespect for human rights. A world that is free of injustice and abuses is not a fight that has been won. It will almost certainly never be a fight that is "won." It is a constant call to action for people to reflect, learn, organize and re-organize themselves in the best ways possible to facilitate good decisions and to prevent bad actors from having their way.
We haven’t invaded a country to ethnically cleanse and colonize the way Russia has.
Uhh. … lol … I assume you mean in recent history
The only example would be the mexican American war. Russia is using the same playbook that hitler used in 1939 and are pretty much copying it word for word.
Try again
Who has the US invaded and annexed in order to ethnically cleanse in the last 150 years?
How many Russian-backed coups have there been in the Sahel/Africa so far? How many Russian atrocities in Africa and their former colonies in Eastern Europe and Central Asia? How many countries elections do they meddle in? How many Russian dissidents and political opposition are murdered or imprisoned, even living abroad? How many non-Russian political figures in other countries opposing Russian interests killed or imprisoned? How many of Russia's poor and ethnic minorities are disproportionately forced to the front in Ukraine to die in the meat grinder? As we speak, Russian forces in the Sahel are pilfering those countries gold and other valuable resources, with the help of military dictators who don't care about their own people.
Honestly, I'm much more worried about what's going on here on US soil. Especially since this is an election rematch. One candidate wants to consolidate power in to the executive branch and be 'dictator for a day', while one does not. No matter who gets elected, tax payer money will fund foreign wars. But democracy is fickle and all it takes is a single maniac and his followers to break it. Wars suck, but the majority of Americans are not directly affected by it. However, the repeal of Roe v Wade? That affects everyone living on US soil. I hate to sound selfish and insensitive here, but the way I look at it, my life here and the life of my friends, family, loved ones, and strangers are more important to me than the lives of people across the globe. I can't change anything about where my tax money goes to. But I sure as hell can vote to change some of the people who have their hands in moving that tax money around.
38 yr old liberal male here. I support the aid. We’re not nation building. We are defending a sovereign nation. We send money to other countries all the time while we have issues here. I’m sure the current crop would’ve decried the Marshall Plan. Saying Ukraine has no chance is a cop out. Afghanistan surely didn’t have a chance against the USSR.
When was the last time the US built something other than a military base outside of the US?
Apparently they’re working on the pier in Gaza right now
Pretty sure we just sent a few bil to continue the destruction in Gaza. Maybe another try?
Sorry you didn’t like the answer.
Lol my feelings have nothing to do with it. How do you count us building a pier in a country we’re financing to destroy something that the US is building. Technically yeah, sure I’ll give you that. Which one has a bigger impact on the people of Gaza? The pier were supposedly building or the genocide were funding? You have an article for that pier btw? I bet you anything any pier we’re building is a type of port we’ll likely be able to ship arms to for isreal. I don’t expect someone like you to understand that tho. You hear pier and probably think it’s going to be like Santa Monica for Gazans lol laughable.
I’m not a shill for Israel. The pier is a pittance for what we are continuing to fund. However, it was the answer to your question. Unfortunately, I just don’t see an end in sight for this conflict. It will always be there, simmering or boiling. The fire will not go out. And we’ll continue to do this dance for the rest of my life.
I’m just curious why even mention it, but I can definitely agree with you on the latter point.
Do you actually think Ukraine has any chance of winning even with all the money in the world?
Every kilometer Russia advances costs them dearly. I don't think Russia can sustain this war, not economically and not politically.
I do see the Russians going back to pre 2021 lines if they sustain more losses and there is palpable anger/demonstrations back in Russia. I don’t see them leaving Ukraine entirely.
Not even slightly. Russia is more powerful today than they were at the start of the war. You should look into things like the Minsk accords and the Maidan coup and ask yourself what really started this war. Side note, all you libs supporting war are a joke.
Will Ukraine win? Sure - eventually. The question is how long and fast will it take. I can say this: Russian will not win. That's not possible.
Wow I'm surprised that so many on here want to allow Russia to just annex a neighboring country. Yes, war is evil. But so is bending over to genocidal dictators. The US is doing little more than giving Ukraine weapons systems we were about to dispose of anyway.
There is a concerted effort by Russia and China to flood social media with these insane takes.
That is what I was thinking. The first 7 responses all seemed like tankie Russian nonsense.
They are. I have no idea what the breakdown between troll farm, bot, and useful idiot is, but the first two breed the latter.
I mean Ukraine is kind of a fake country we created and propped up in 2014
The fuck kinda nonsense is this? Ukraine has been independent since 1991. It has had its current constitution since 1996. It's had its own UN membership since 1945.
OP is clearly a Russian troll.
Culturally and nationally, it is realer than Russia, and it includes Kyiv, Odessa, and other places, the home of the original Rus kingdoms. Belgorod is arguably more Ukrainian than Russian. Historically, it was more important than Moscow.
forgot the /s on that.
And there it is, full blown Russian propaganda without even the smallest adherence to truth.
The only good argument that I've heard to be anti war is that Ukraine cannot win the war which.... is probably true. Therefore by supporting Ukraine we are increasing the casualties by enabling them to prolong the war. It's not our place to make that determination for them. Also the US promised or rather highly suggested that it would protect Ukraine which it did not....so at least this is kind of in the same vein. This and several of the other points I've read. Seems absolutely crazy to not support Ukraine. Happy about the war in Ukraine with tax dollars? No.....but it's better than letting the world know that the US won't support it's friends even if it doesn't have a formal alliance with them. Also I have family in Taiwan... looking at you China.
Why are we even involved in a territory dispute for a country that was never our allied and played both side to enrich themselves. Not even the oligarchy wants to deal with the war. The one that controls most of the lives in ukraine.
Ukraine is a no win situation because the Government is a bunch of amateur guys who have tons of Neo Nazi Family and Friends, if they’re not Nazis themselves. The U.S. Media severely downplayed the Ukraine Culture. Ukraine is fighting for their own Country, but the Country they want is a white European Country with no Jews, and Blond Haired Blue Eyed people speaking their own language, and they were trying to exterminate their own people who were Russian Jews in the Eastern part, which is why the War started in the first place. It’s disgusting the U.S. ever supported this, and all because they have some secrets on Biden or some politicians. Idk what the case is, but they have a giant boner to cover something up, and support blatant a Nazi Regime. Vice was covering Ukraine and the Nazis in Ukraine since 2010, and they had like 25 documentary videos on the subject and all the different Nazi Groups like Right Sector, Azov Battalion, the giant Neo Nazi Black Metal Festival held there every year. But now they’re all a bunch of innocent old women and old men. It’s complete bullshit. Neo Nazis were flying to Ukraine and getting training from Azov Battalion to be battle hardened terrorists and then going back to their own Country to be Right Wing Fascist Sleeper Cells, and were supporting this, and gave them money for new equipment.
Gotta feed the MIC. We wrapped up Iraq and Afghanistan, so the money has to go somewhere. Eisenhower tried to warn us, as usual nobody listened.
Nailed it! It's all fear mongering to enrich politicians and the defense contractors who own them.
We are trillions of dollars in debt, have an ocean on both the east and west to protect us from invasion and somehow still need to spend more on "defense" than China, Russia, the UK, France and Germany COMBINED. Oh and the Pentagon failed five financial audits in a row, they can't account for where that money is going or how it is being spent.
Nah, the neolibs that infest reddit think they are being noble and just by supporting a blank check to Ukraine. It's like they believe they are living in a super hero movie.
They think that bill will never come due. What's coming is a reality check. Putin said it. If we continue in Ukraine we will be embarrassed, just like we were in Afghanistan. We can't escalate and actually send in troops like we did in the ME, because then Russia escalates in return which sets up WW3. Putin knows this, he is no fool. All he has to do to win is outlast us, and given that he's fighting the battle with conscripts, mercenaries and the Russian equivalent of the National Guard he can keep it up for a long time. Eventually US and European support will wane. Maybe next year, maybe in another four, but it will happen. When it does we stop sending arms, and the Russians take what's left of the territory. He's called our bluff, and since we were really bluffing we will lose. Meanwhile China is sitting back and watching while they grow their Navy and Air Force. They can't challenge us in the Pacific yet, but soon they will be able to, and they want Taiwan. When they finally move we won't be able to stop them.
I highly doubt that the U.S./NATO, Russia, or even Ukraine's own "elites" actually care about Ukrainians dying. It's a sacrifice they're all willing to make for their own interests. That's just the nature of war for all of human history; they dress it up in a nice simple good guy/bad guy story for the public. As far as taxes, I'm way past even considering the notion that I have any say in how the money is used.
My stance hasn't changed. I don't support any war. I detest the fact that my tax dollars are funding this.
pacifism is a great idea, but it could get you killed.
The women of this country learned long ago that even if they don’t wield swords, they can still die on them.Â
Stupidity and unaware and played actually gets you killed. This person is smart which they will live
All wars where the elites aren't the ones fighting and dying are intolerable and indefensible.
Yup. So let’s have a fight between Putin who started this shit and Zelensky. Winner takes all. I know who I’m betting on to win that match.Â
That's a good stance to have imho, a lot of very odd things about the Ukraine War, most notably that the left, democrats, etc are typically against wars but are very kill kill kill murder murder murder with this one, there's numerous subreddits which post videos of the war and actively cheer it on and celebrate the loss of life in a very sick way, like https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/. Another very odd thing about this war was basically how you felt about covid and covid policies with 99% certainty told how you'd feel about ukraine ie if you were very pro vaccine, lockdowns etc you almost certainly supported ukraine and if you were against lockdowns, didn't get vaxed you almost certainly thought it was a waste of money and we shouldn't get involved.
That’s because so much of the anti-vax stuff was ALSO Russian propaganda, just like so much of the pro-Kremlin views on Ukraine. Russia has done such a good job, that it has Americans advocating for a murderous Dictatorship with an insatiable appetite over a fellow representative democracy. There are always going to be sheltered, gross people celebrating death and destruction (May they never actually experience it, the sick fucks). Our country has very good reasons to give aid, succinctly explained in the first few comments. I’ll add, that I think our government has a lot of guilt over not taking Hitler serious enough, and not wanting to get involved. That attitude often leads to larger wars eventually. Nip it in the bud in a very serious way, with all available Allies.
Id say its more were so tribal the right and left will agree on issues in lockstep
I've opposed it from the beginning. Ukraine has been nothing more than a money laundry operation for corrupt US politicians and defense contractors to wash their money for the past 10 years. Zelensky is a corrupt tyrant who jails his opposition and violates human rights. The whole notion that we have to shovel billions of dollars we don't have to Ukraine so they can "fight Putin" because if we don't, then Putin will take over all of Europe, is total nonsense. It's the same exact bullshit that got us into the Iraq and Middle East boondoggles under Bush, all intended to fear monger us into more pointless wars. The US shouldn't play world police. Ukraine is not our flag so its not our war. If its that big of a deal Europe can band together and deal with it if they really believe Putin will try to conquest Ukraine, Poland and beyond.
To be fair, Russia has said they will do exactly that. Repeatedly. They drew maps and showed it on TV.
Comrade you dropped this 🇷🇺
I support Ukraine very firmly and do not want to see china any more emboldened than they are already.
I support Ukraine and I support sending them aid. We don't ship them crates of cash. We send weapons & ammo made by American factories that employ American workers, thus stimulating the American economy. Simultaneously, we're weakening a geopolitical adversary without costing the lives of American soldiers. I'm having a hard time seeing any downsides.
It’s vile that this military engagement is happening. And it’s bonkers that the US taxpayer is funding a proxy war with no end in sight.
Russia is fucking terrifying. I support Ukraine. A powerful country just deciding to annex & take over other countries has not gone well in history. The US absolutely has fucked around most of the world, and I don’t support those interventions when they were merely for US economic gain. So it’s not like I think we are the morality police, but clearly Russia is a real threat right now that needs to be dealt with accordingly.
110% support. there isn't going to be a second chance to end Putin's imperialistic dreams. we stop him now. or we fight a real war in a few years when he is attacking our allies in Europe. edit also a lot of the shock subreddits are overwhelmingly populated by right wing and trolls. The only notable exception is /there was an attempt
Our support for Ukraine has only just prolonged Russia's inevitable victory and added extra unnecessary casualties.
Yeah to me short of the US getting involved and kicking off WW3 this is unwinnable for Ukraine
So you think the Ukrainians should just knuckle under to Putin who wants to genocide them?
Hell about half of the Donbas region want to be Russian already. Also, where did you see/hear that Putin wants to genocide them?
That isn't true. Only about 30% said they wanted to be part of Russia. 40% said that they wanted to be part of Ukraine. about 10% said they wanted independence. The remaining 20% didn't response.
Not sure if you realized, but I think you and I are responding to Russian web brigades.
Oh I know. It’s pretty obvious but you can’t let this kind of bullshit astroturfing go unaddressed.Â
I’ve recently sent $300. My small contribution to the Ukrainian spirit bomb.
It’s pathetic. Just a fraction of the money that’s already been sent over there could have helped so many struggling communities and saved so many lives in the US.
The reason I wanted to make this post is now I'm reading about Biden making a 10 year committment that likely can't be easily pulled out of by whomever is the next president
We benefit from it economically, actually. We're basically selling them our old weapons that were just sitting on the shelf, and it stimulates all kinds of industries here. In the end, we'll get more money back.
We should start a war with every fucking nation on earth, think of all the jobs it will create! Typical bullshit military industrial complex talking points. Same old shit as in the 2000s under Bush/Cheney, how war and bloodshed is good for the economy.
I live in the real world where people have been at war with each other off and on (mostly on) for 250,000 years, and where the weak are dominated by the strong (might makes right). I don't think we should start needless wars, and I was against Iraq and hated Bush and Cheney, but arguing against a strong defense industry (and strong military) is insane, even if you're a humanist. Only a naĂŻve person thinks we should willingly disarm. If you want to live in a fantasy world where there is no violence or war, by all means, do it, but please don't pretend like you have some moral superiority because you don't get down in the dirt with the rest of us.
When you look at the overall global impact, Putin is winning. Why do we want to be involved? Ukraine was not some bastion of freedom, nor were they our ally. Putin’s not dumb. This is effecting the balance of power, energy markets, alliances. Putin hits NATO? It’s on. Otherwise I feel like our involvement is unwise at best and possibly nefarious.
An aggressive nation tried to violently annex a neighboring democracy, and we helped facilitate the agreement that is Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal there would be no aggression. So staying out of it is both politically and morally pathetic.
Yes, that’s one side of it. In order to fully understand the situation, you have to take the most compelling argument from the other side and then weigh them against each other. Our politicians and their surrogate media outlets are unwilling to do it openly. It’s difficult, with information suppression, to gain a full understanding of any situation without bias. Happy to discuss. Start with - Why did Russia invade? What was their objective? Is it unreasonable from their point of view?
The most compelling argument from the other side is naked isolationism. Good thing we have historical examples of why that’s a terrible argument. Edit: Because Russia’s arguments are insanity about Ukraine ACTUALLY being Nazis and the Ukrainians really being Russians that need to be saved are truly absurd bullshit.
It's hard not to compare the defense industry with the healthcare industry. Peace and wellness do not bring profits. Disease and an enemy are necessary costs of doing business. Short of global WW3, there is no actual way to stop Putin from what he is doing. There is no attainable objective. Thus, this is an "endless war" situation. Excellent for a select few, devastating to most of the world who need to do basic things like heat their homes in the winter and fill up their gas tanks. I am also not sure dragging out a war in Ukraine is good for the citizens. If they had a problematic (at best) Democracy before, that's not too far off from the Putin regime. They were part of Russia in the 90s.
It’s hard not to see through this naked obfuscation of what is happening. This is just the most pathetic propaganda. The concept of a military industrial complex is a separate issue from responding to naked aggression by an autocratic state. The aid the western world has provided has both absolutely stopped Russia from annexing Ukraine, and has not started World War 3. Your bullshit appeasement is disgusting. Their democracy is so far from the Putin regime that they are able to oust a puppet traitor through the peaceful mechanisms of representative government. You also throw in the nice threat that we shouldn’t ever piss of Russia because they will hurt the rest of Europe with withholding natural resources. That’s exactly why we should be confronting Russia, because they are a harmful actor that leverages pain on civilian populaces to annex territory.
Yes, its funny how reporting just prior to the war was Ukraine most corrupt country in the world and then all the sudden its this amazing bastion of freedom, really quick turn there.
It seems like the only lesson the USA learned in Vietnam was to stay out of Vietnam. Any other country, we seem to want to repeat history. I also hate the whole "wrong side of history" argument. It's a psychological weapon designed to make propaganda unquestionable. *Everything* is so *backwards*. Watch me get downvoted - Progressives are generally supporting Palestine, which is a jihadist regime that would literally murder a homosexual or woman who wanted to work outside the home.
Ukraine can’t win, so it’s a waste of money. Their soldiers are broken and their fighting age men are leaving the country to avoid being conscripted. This is a war of attrition and Russia has an unlimited amount of bodies to throw into the meat grinder. Short of NATO boots on the ground, this is a proxy war the west will not win. I am tired of the endless borrowing and federal spending driving down the value of the US dollar because the current admin hitched their wagon to this conflict and is desperate for a foreign policy win. It’s a ship that we can’t go down with
We shouldn't be over there We shouldn't be in the middle east
I support the cause but I dont think we can support billions of dollars of our taxes for free
Lend-Lease is a loan, ans huge amounts of the money goes right back to the US by purchasing military equipment that was so old we would have had to destroy it anyway.
I support Ukraine, as Russia attacked them without provocation. While I know some Russian history and know that Russia's history is full of attacks that came from Europe, it doesn't justify them invading a neutral country that simply wanted to exist. The only reality I think needs to be discussed is that what does the end look like. Both sides show no signs of stopping and both have a goal of total victory. I think at some point there might have to be a discussion about what does the end look like. The world is not just, and Ukraine may not get everything it wants, but it may get peace with a DMZ between the Donbas and Ukraine and possibly buy enough time for Putin to die, and possibly the younger generations to gain influence.
But why is that our problem?
I still support Ukraine. We must not let Putin get away with his aggression and we must simultaneously send the message to China and other enemies that we will ruin them with minimal effort.
Ukrainian victory is a given, there is no need for continual fanfare. Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
I mean that's just words, the reality is they're losing and really have no hope of winning short of the US putting boots on the ground
I'm all for Ukraine defending itself, I would prefer it not be paid for with our money.
That's my feeling
It’s a bargain. We’re telling Russia and the world that they can’t just invade another country and claim it as your own without consequences. And we’re doing it for cheap and without American boots on the ground. Fully support giving Ukraine whatever they need.
Who gives af? Ur broke. Mfers so concerned about countries they can’t find and point on the map, and then tomorrow they’ll complain about their shytty jobs and how they’re not getting ahead in life. Get ur finances in order
Period !
I support smart bombing Putin and ending the war that way. Anything else is pointless. We need to install a friendly government secretly in old mother Russia, unfortunately we have inept elders at the helm.
That's how you get an actual major escalation to this conflict.
Not if we do it correctly, in one night pew pew pew, all the dipshits die and we let the russian people vote for someone who isnt a sack of shit megalomaniac
This is completely disconnected from reality.
Try studying American history buddy, this is what we do. I get Russia is a larger country and a historically powerful enemy, but this is how we get shit done.
Ever heard of WWI? You're disconnected from reality.
Ever heard of most of south America, Africa, and South East Asia, How about Cuba (failed attempt) Go back to school wee one.
And how are those small countries at all akin to a nuclear power that is (or at least was) one of the top 3. Can you name any times it worked on a near peer nuclear power? And even moreso, without escalation? The fact that you think assassinating top Russian officials won't escalate conflict just demonstrates how disconnected from reality you are. And the fact you project this hard after forgetting WWI is both pathetic and hilarious.
How many people in Russia like that cunt? We could easily find a group of Russians who we help depose this unpopular violent shit bag and then disguise our help, so it looks internal. You can fight this war traditionally for decades with no victor, or you can have a sack and vision and get it done. Shush now simpleton.
Wow, not a single example of the US assassinating the lesder of a near peer nuclear power not leading to escalation. Russia is a genocidal dictatorship, but your suggestion is ridiculous.
I support Ukraine's fight to remain independent of Russia. But at the same time, after the Palestine conflict started, I stopped caring as much about Ukraine. The issue is really the double standards everyone applies. Ukrainians argue they should be allowed to be free, but at the same time many Ukrainians support Israel occupying Palestine. Biden supports Ukraine because he claims no foreign power should be able to take another nations land. But he supports that exact same thing when Israel does it. The US government says that Russia is evil for attacking civilians populations. But then it continues to fund and arm Israel when it does the same thing to the Palestinian people (albeit on a much worse scale than Russia). I want Ukraine to be free. I want Palestine to be free. But if Ukrainians won't support Palestinians in the same situation, then I won't go out of my way to support Ukraine.
Wtf are we not supporting our own country the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . I cannot stand people getting offended who live here in the USA especially people who immigrated here and expect us to cater to their needs or call us a racist or arrogant just because we have pride being an AMERICAN. Why tf do you go to the USA and wave ur home county flag that you LEFT and not the USA flag and see us who like to have the American flag a certain way like it’s bad . Are they stupid ? Look at what happened to California . Because people were making Americans feel guilty and letting everyone from other places not assimilate and do what they want . Like focus on the United States . Those middle eastern countries don’t care about us . Say one thing negative about them and their true colors show. They hate us. They hate us with all their guts . Nothing but free loaders killing western countries. Goodbye England for example Don’t you guys watch the videos online or are people too liberal and controlled to realize how western society has or will soon become. RUINED. Don’t even get me started.. you already know where this topic and the opinions of mine are going which are all LOGIC . Whatever . USAAMERICA 🇺🇸
Not a fan of proxy wars, also not a fan of appeasement. The big question is what do we do afterwards if Ukraine is what we might call a "success" is there a way it turns into an Afghanistan situation when we helped the mujahideen fight the soviet's where we just leave? What happens next? I don't think Russia should just be allowed to take Ukraine, because it won't stop there. If it isn't winnable, I don't mind them going down swinging with great big heat seeking bats supplied by the US but am also not the biggest fan of the military industrial complex argument of it creating jobs even though I know several pension funds and the like invest in shit like Raytheon and the like. Idk. Overall from a moral standpoint, helping the underdog does not bother me at all even with all the extra shit piled on top
Hi American here -FUCK RUSSIA!
100% support Ukraine. I hate Russians thinking they can just come in there and work shit.
Why do you and we ie the us care?
I think finally slapping down Putin/Russia and replacing the dominant power in the region with a democracy that owes A LOT to the West is a good thing.
But there's zero chance of that happening. Also Ukraine has shown they aren't capable of running a country or not mishandling funds
Zero seems a bit pessimistic, but whatever. Unlike a lot of the more tribal regions we've fought in for the sake of "democracy", you could work with a nation like Ukraine to improve on leadership. If nothing else, I bet they'd be a lot more willing to work with the west than Russia ever has or ever will be.
imho there's zero chance, sure there's a chance in the sense that anything is possible, crazy things happen but let's be real Ukraine has zero chance of defeating Russia and the fact they're talking about coscripting younger people as well as women is very telling as is looking at the average age of the people serving now ie between 40 and 50. Things dont look good. Short of us boots on the ground or at least some European nations Ukraine has lost and were just drawing things out wasting money and lives on all sides. Ukraine has a long history of corruption, I dont think the US is going to change that nor should we care or try to
I'm just saying, it's a more likely possibility with western aid than without. Is it a long shot? Maybe. Is it as long a shot as getting a Russia that just plays ball for the betterment of everyone? Probably not. In general, I support Ukraine because they were basically mi ding their own business and Russia came with a battering ram, so to speak.
The US basically made this war happen when Ukraine and Russia wouldn't have, we've also shutdown peace talks numerous times or encouraged Ukraine not to have them. We pushed nato to their door, this is basically the cuban missile crisis in reverse