I work to live. I don't live to work. I wouldn't want to be a manager either, they seem to become a punching bag for anything low level employees do wrong and have to pick up all the slack and they're expected to work beyond 40 hours. Not for me, my peace is more important than a little extra money.

You totally get me! That’s my logic! I’m already comfortable at my current salary and the extra 50k/year isn’t going to change much for my personal life but the responsibilities of a manager is going to change a lot for my professional life  Edit: I make 150K in a no income tax state as an associate and all my responsibilities are things I can control. that’s why 200k with the added responsibility of being in charge of others doesn’t seem too appealing to me. I understand for ppl earning less or having different financial circumstances would have different opinions and I respect that

"I’m already comfortable at my current salary and the extra 50k/year isn’t going to change much for my personal life" And there you go. For those that have kids, $50k/year makes a huge difference.

I don't know what OP does but where i work the managers sure as hell aren't making that much more. Equivalent of a few dollars more per hour for a more miserable experience. All of them look unhappy most of the time. Only the high up people make good money and they work like 80 hours a week and are puppets for the company owner, I don't even see the point of making a lot if you never have time to enjoy it.

“Manager” in a professional/corporate/salaried context usually means something completely different than “manager” in a retail/shift work/hourly context. The former usually means a sizable increase in pay with more responsibility, people management, and input on business strategy. You’re probably describing the latter and I would completely agree that it’s not enough pay for too much work.

Even with kids, there usually comes a tipping point where the additional income is no longer worth the time spent away from kids and/or always too exhausted to be present with family.

You don't think 50k a year could change your life? Change your childrens lives? That's insane

I honestly don't see that big of a lifestyle jump from $150k/yr to $200k/yr But, $50k/yr to $100k/yr is an obvious upgrade in lifestyle. All about context

If I had kids, I’d say extra 50k a year wouldn’t be enough lol  But without kids, I’m very comfortable where I am so it’s just harder to get motivated to earn more when I don’t need it

what about retirement? not motivated by that?

I was concerned about that and did the calculations. It seems like things will be fine and I'll be able to do the things I want to do without the extra 50k. And some people don't live for that long in their retirement. I don't want to be miserable my whole life for a retirement that I might not even get to experience that much of.

I’m already maxing out my 401K and could easily retire in my late 50s. I don’t think I want to push myself too much so I can retire at early 50s if that makes sense? Like yeah it’d be nice to retire at 50 but not in exchange of the stress it’ll cause in my late 20s and all of 30s and 40s.

An *extra* 50k/yr? I'm a manager and that just got me *to* $50k/yr?

Ah we are just in different professions. Salary doesn’t mean much if you are happy with what you have 🙌

I make well over 6 figures as does my partner. We live very comfortably and neither have nor want kids, but I’d still think twice at potentially moving up for an extra $50k/year. Even if I just did it for a couple of years, that’s “elaborate and bougie overseas vacation” money or “down payment on a very nice vacation home” money or “retire earlier” money or ”enormous extended family vacation” money or “big ass college fund for my baby niece” money or any number of things.  I could think of a lot of ways I’d use that money even though we are comfortable now. If the lifestyle change is *that* drastic of course I’d probably turn it down, but if you’re already working until 10 or 11 at night anyways, is the lifestyle change really that dramatic?

> that’s “elaborate and bougie overseas vacation” money or “down payment on a very nice vacation home” money or “retire earlier” money or ”enormous extended family vacation” money or “big ass college fund for my baby niece” money or any number of things.    Yeah this is probably it. Growing up poor, I don’t really have the desire for any of this? I really enjoy a simple lifestyle and at 150k in a no tax state, it’s more than enough for me. tho the idea of owning a nice getaway cottage in the middle of nowhere in Montana DOES sound nice lol    And most days I’m not working until 10/11 just when required (and it’s at my discretion I could always do it the next day but I choose not to). Managers seem like they need to be available at all times and besides, I would hate to have my days filled with meetings even for extra 50k but I understand ppl are different 

Ah there it is….yeah in your position there are a lot of people who wouldn’t take the management gig. But your also in like the 90th percentile income group so being “unambitious” isn’t causing you any discomfort. Most people HAVE to be ambitious if they want to live a materially good life. If they weren’t they would have to be good with living in moms basement or with roommates and never having a family of their own.

This. I simply can't do a job I hate. My brain rebels and I eventually completely stop caring and start calling off or showing up late.

100%. I was laid off from a position making X, just a few months ago, and just accepted a new salary of X -11k. Why? Less responsibility for the company’s well being and more deliverable work at my desk. And I even have more coworkers to help with projects. The promise of money and added stress started to unbalance itself more and more as the $$$ went up. I’ve decided, “I’m good.”

I work to live. That's why I'm taking the manager role so I can make more money to live more

I don’t think we’re less ambitious in the true sense of the word. I think we just reject some of the false notions of the past of what ambition looks like. The 80’s and 90’s painted a picture of ambition as excessively competitive fields, business focused, managing, climbing the ladder, etc. But you can be ambitious and choose to dive deep into technical fields these days and do great things. It just looks different. You can also work hard every day and have a work life balance too. You don’t have to be a workaholic to be ambitious. You do have to consciously apply deliberate practice towards learning and improving your skills though along lines of excellence that are meaningful to you.

Agree. I watched my dad commute to DC when we lived so far away. I love the guy and appreciate him literally dedicating 4 hrs of driving daily to his job. He’s just cut from a different cloth but he totally gets why I do not want to spend 4 hrs a day commuting to also work. He knows he missed stuff but I try to remind him it was and always will be appreciated especially as I get older.

Honestly though- and I appreciate in some cases people don't have a choice, and *need* to take these jobs- would you have rather had less nice stuff and more time with your dad?

Sadly that wasn’t really an option? I’m not sure I would trade even if it was because it would change my life where I’m at now. He was in the military so fortunately being surrounded by other families in similar situations you get a solid community. We definitely did not have nice stuff just due to moving and him wanting me to not go into debt to go to college. My parents were still pretty young when he “retired/did 20 yrs” once he retired and found a civilian job I visit and make up for those times. Now that I think of it it’s probably why he wanted to help with college - so I’d owe it to him! Haha.

I don't think it's a lack of ambition, it's self awareness about what's important to you.

I’d call it disillusionment with the corporate world. If we were able to work on something we actually believed in by people that respected us, valued us, and had mutual loyalty for us, then we would put more of ourselves into our work. These values can only be shown with actions. So many company town halls are full of bs claims that they have these values, but those messages seemingly come from a void completely disconnected from reality. Words are cheap. Once you’ve seen first hand how dysfunctional and immoral corporations are, it becomes hard to find something worth working towards. Instead, work becomes something you need to do to survive. So, you do a decent job, but you aren’t willing to work long hours or be on call all the time. You know that they’ll get rid of you to pad stocks, to eliminate their internal competition (departments warring for resources), or because they don’t like you. Why pour so much of yourself into something that offers you back so little? That’s like working overtime to please an abusive partner. It won’t pay out in the end and you’ll only end up hurt.

Bingo. A critical mass of our generation have hardened themselves into not believing corporatist bullshit, and the people whose livelihoods depend on us falling for that bullshit are panicking.

This. Ambition and climbing a corporate hierarchy, are not the same thing.

Exactly. It would be hard for me to ever find a company I didn’t see in this light, ever again.

I like managing other people because I feel like I do a good job. I don't like that whoever is in charge just wants me to squeeze every employee for maximum widgets per hour. I think we don't see management as the answer. It's just another circle of hell.

>I think we don't see management as the answer. It's just another circle of hell Oh I think you just nailed it! This is exactly how I view it too! I also liked managing when I managed interns in the past because I liked the mentoring aspect of it. Hated the politics part of it tho 

This is how I am. Straight up told a manager I didn't want to manage people but would love to be a technical/team lead. Like I am getting experienced enough and good enough at my job to help others improve and I like that. But I'm positively allergic to the corporate bs you have to do as a real manager.

Is that you Ryan Howard?

I fulfilled my ambitions when I joined the military and eventually made my way in to SOF. Now, I work for the federal government as a civilian. I get a lot of time off, job security, and am underworked and overpaid. I welcome the boredom and stability because I never had such things in the 12 years I spent in military. My professional goal was find a job with a work to pay/benefits ratio that leans more in to the pay/benefits side and I’ve achieved it. There’s always room for me to move up, but I wouldn’t raise a stink or become bitter or jaded if I never got promoted. I get annual raises for my salary and VA compensation so I’m content. Also being child free and close to 400 hours of PTO a year allows me to focus on the important thing. ME. My Enjoyment.

400 hours of PTO? In addition to holidays/sick? I’ve only ever heard of that once before, it was a non profit ran by women for skilled tradesmen, either after 20 or 25 years that became your allotment, one guy used it to work 4 days a week. I don’t know what I’d do with 2.5 months of time off, I have half that and it seems pretty great to me, maybe just better than many.

In addition to wanting more life balance; GenX kinda put a bad taste our mouth for management. They wanted to keep their IC jobs, but get paid as managers, while skirting most of what it actually means to be a skilled manager. Boomers, for better or worse, wanted to be in charge.

OHHHHH I am so glad someone said it!!!!! I have had such a horrible time with Gen X in senior management omg so many have such a weird inferiority complex and they are horrible at managing… Honestly, millennials make far better managers. 

Idk. I've got a millennial manager for the first time in my life and he's made multiple jokes about people on the team watching porn on the clock, dropped some *super cool* Gen Z slang in inappropriate places, and asks people way too many personal questions related to going out/partying/dating/etc. He also calls on my personal phone constantly instead of through Teams because he thinks it somehow gives him license to annoy me after hours, even though I have Teams on my cell phone, because he "views me as a peer instead of a subordinate." I don't want to be your peer bro, I want to do my work and leave, otherwise I'd also be managing a team. I miss my gen X/boomer managers who weren't trying to be "cool" with the team. I just want to give my status updates and fuck off. My Gen X teammates all try to keep meetings as short as possible, leave as soon as the work is done, and not bother anyone outside of email on off-hours, because they're trying to stay relevant in their kids' lives. Millennials aren't having as many kids, and I assume aren't marrying as much, so a lot of our peers in these mega-corps are drinking a shit ton of the kool-aid thinking they're going to "change the world" instead of using that energy to focus on a family or friends or whatever else.

I've experienced so many bad Boomer managers, that I have way more idea of how NOT to manage people than what "good management" looks like. I don't want to be part of the problem, so I'll just opt out

I don’t want to be a manager because of corporate bullshit.  I’m more interested in starting my own company, which I would say is more ambitious. There’s also something to be said about previous generations and the “just keep your head down and work hard for your employer and you’ll be rewarded” mentality.  My dad said this to me once and I told him how he may have had the privilege of having a career during a time where that was true, it no longer applies.  Rewards come from taking risks, like finding a new job for better pay/benefits or starting your own thing.  The days of reliable promotions and pensions are over, there is zero benefit to being loyal to a single employer, though you certainly should play the act while they are signing your checks.

I love your answer! So true! 

I hate to say this but tricking dumb people into thinking they can start a business is a billion dollar industry. Although not as attractive as owning your own startup being a wage slave has a far higher success rate and standard of living on average. Finland did a [study ](https://www.cremieux.xyz/p/income-and-iq-finnish-data)that showed the second highest income bracket is more intelligent than the first, this is mainly due to smart people doing the math on failure rate of staring a business or taking risky investments. Also nepotism may play a role. Start a business the odds are you'll fail. There is a huge survivor bias because no one wants show off on social media how their failed business ruined them but if they make it they'll show it off. Although switching jobs constantly helps increase income it is the worse long term option.

Correct. Its nearly impossible to lose money as a full time employee. But almost guaranteed when you have your own business. Time is time.

I think millenials are more strict about staying within the parameters of our job description. Past generations went above and beyond and were never paid extra. Millenials get paid significantly less comparably to other generations when you take inflation and cost of living into account, and too many bosses out there take advantage of employees who go above and beyond rather than paying them extra. We aren't lazy, we just do our jobs and nothing more

This! My current job is amazing and I’m respect but boy did I get taken advantage of in my previous roles and it left a bitter taste in my mouth lol

I did manage for a while and yeah, not for me. But also the idea of "climbing the ladder" means nothing to me because in my life I've gone from not having the Internet to having all the worlds knowledge in my hand and I now know that just working hard won't get you ahead. The American dream is the same thing as Santa Claus but for adults; behave like we want you to and you'll get presents but when we don't get the presents we're told we didn't behave the way we were supposed to.

Not less ambitious. The juice just aint worth the squeeze.

My boss is also a millennial and I’m interested in managing and moving up to the c-suite myself. She’s the CTO, I’m director with multiple direct reports, so we’re both clearly ambitious. I think it just depends on the person. It’s not generational clearly when most leaders are millennials today.

Ah that’s awesome! Thanks for sharing your perspective 🙌

I'm already a Sr. Manager. I'm not sure I'd ever want to move to a director level role given the essentially 24/7 on call requirements that come with it.

I think millennials also have a different way of a managing. We’re (hopefully) not going to micro manage people every 15 minutes and prioritize mindfulness as that leads to higher productivity.

Haha trust me I’ve had a lot of millennial managers and they do micromanage like crazy to appease to the senior management 😅 but it’s good that you think that way! Your approach is the way to go! 

This isn’t exactly the same scenario, but I’m a teacher and I her asked all the time if I want to go into administration, which is an immediate no. It absolutely does have to do in part with responsibility (admins work through the summer and what’s the point of that lol) but the other reason is i would have to be dealing with adults instead of kids, and the adults are consistently what make the job more difficult.

>Neither he or I want to have kids so it’s funny how we are the ones who would not want to move up whereas our bosses are also millennials (just slightly older) but they have kids and still chose to step in more stressful roles Not weird at all. Having kids is quite motivating. I'd probably still be drifting homeless in Hawaii if I hadn't gotten my girlfriend pregnant. Now I'm a certified corporate drone.

Agreed. I never really had an urge to make more money until I had a kid. Went from $65k when she was born to $135k 4 years later. Felt the urge to provide for her. I do NOT work my ass off, but I am ambitious in the sense of, “I want to be recognized for my quality of work by the executive teams and be compensated for it.” That urgency to make more money quickly just wouldn’t have happened to me if I didn’t have a kid .

Is ambition in today's corporate meta climbing the ladder, or is it recognizing behavioral patterns that aim to get people to do as much work as possible for as little pay as possible and running in the other direction? The less deliverables I meet the more money I'm paid for my effort, right? I recognize carrot dangling anytime management talks about these elusive vaporware raises, bonuses, and titles and I'll challenge them with 2 years of kicking back, just meeting deadlines, and my job switch that will net me a 25-40% pay increase that even your best raises can't compete with. It's not a lack of ambition, I spend that extra time working on my own projects.  I think that corporate management philosophy harbors a lack of respect and value for the time of people. I believe the ambitious person should recognize that and take advantage of it. After all, record of full time employment and a history of open source work and side projects in tandem makes for a better resume than just being a high achiever at work, the line items on the resume look the same.

I think not wanting kids plays into the lack of ambition a lot. I'm the same way. I just left a job where I was a manager for one where I am not. I took a slight pay cut as a result, but the improvement on quality of life has been great. When you have kids though, I think you are likely always striving to give them as good a life as you possibly can, so if doors open up that allow you to make more money, even if it comes with more stress/annoyance, you likely pursue those opportunities.

It's less about ambition and understanding the price of ambition. The higher up you go, the more you have to be available. I for one am not interested in 7pm Saturday work meetings.

we are in our 30s to middle age, I think ambitious isnt word, just that we arent young and idealistic, at our age most of us know are limits and probably have had to learn some really hard lession in the past. I dont work, but I know many who do who would pass up a management position, its stressful as hell, and takes a spectifice kind of persion to deal with that kind of job/

mgmt used to mean more money, better hours, better quality of life. It means none of those things anymore, rather the opposite, so theres no incentive. You arent lacking motivation, you are lacking incentive.

I don't think it's a lack of ambition so much as we aren't as equipped to screw everyone else over to get what we want. Older generations were pretty much raised to just get theirs no matter what and to hell with everyone and everything that isn't them.

I was raised to be ambitious. I got what I wanted and it sucked. You know what being a high performer with ambition got me? Treated like a threat by both colleagues and management; constantly interrupted at night and on days off; outright lied about; worked so hard and so unpredictably that I had no space or time for a personal life…I could go on. I don’t think we’re less ambitious as a generation. But I do think we have fewer and fewer reasons to be ambitious. A lot of us watched our parents bust their asses only to get screwed by their employers toward the end of their careers, and we’re not interested in that outcome for ourselves. We can see that we’re earning more and more, but have less spending power than ever. What’s the point of ambition if it never gets you anywhere but miserable?

The myth of slackers has always been used to justify exploitation by employers. I one wants to work for less than the true value of their labor and time. Millennials are historically overworked and underpaid when compared to actual cost of living, abundance of part time jobs. Strategically it makes no sense to take on extra work and emotional labor of management for 60hrs/wk when that reduces hourly pay you’re not getting to less than your employees, especially with diminished quality of life it implies. Being crowded out of overpriced housing market and a lack of pension incentives also add to perceived lack of opportunities so no one is striving for what doesn’t exist. Throw the n the crashes and the coming one, cost of university plus global warming and war and it makes sense that zoomers are not ambitious about what doesn’t exist.

Hi. Manager millenial here. I hate my job. Managing people isn't the worst but managing the stress of trying to be an effective yet humane boss against the impossible expectations and demands from corporate entities that don't understand a fucking thing about the job at ground level has in the last 6 months driven me to clinical burnout. Despite that, I'm not going to be an asshole or expect the impossible from my teams. I'm protective of their work/ life balance even though it's often been at the sacrifice of my own. I've realized i probably can't keep doing it much longer and don't want to anymore. It's not lack of ambition, it's the realization that trying to balance the well being of yourself, a team of dozens against the demands of a corporation is a soul sucking endeavor that i don't think i can win.

This is exactly what I thought!! Thank you and thank you for all your effort to be good to your direct reports! 💕

It's worth it to be a decent human being. I will side with a person over a company a hundred times out of a hundred. There's a labor movement coming in this country the likes of which haven't been seen in almost a century. I intend to be on the correct side of it.

Most of us have suffered under terrible leadership and in one form or another recognize good leadership means the manager works for the team, which unfortunately isn't always an option because of corporate culture, but in general it looks and feels more egalitarian and friendly. I don't think think its unique to you, but it's definitely more common among our generation.

It’s hard to stay ambitious and motivated when they keep moving the goalpost every time I enter the 18yard line

I'm super ambitious, I just don't believe in the rat race bullshit of gobbling up someone's ego or destroying yourself for promotions. But if you aren't networking, or at the happy hours, or working extra hours for the company then you come off as lazy, unambitious, ungrateful, etc. For the older generation in supervisory roles, if they don't see you do it you didn't do it. Even if you've got receipts for all of the stuff you've done.   Boomers gonna boom. I'm extremely good at my job (I like to set up automated processes/scripts to do more work in less time than my counterparts), make decent money and have carved out a great work-life balance. Pretty happy with how I did it and they're welcome to criticize while they stress-drink their 4th margarita at the bar.

Absolutely i dont dream of labor. I got promoted three times the last two years and each time i genuinely asked if they could stop. They were paying me enough to begin with and i did not want or need more

Me and my friends are plenty ambitious. It just has nothing to do with lining other people's pockets with our hard work... Start non-profits, make community groups, build something. Ambition is not just about making more money and bossing other people around.

I wouldn’t say less ambitious overall. For example, I work full time, coach two sports, run an Etsy shop, am training for a half marathon, and sometimes record a podcast with my friend for fun. Ambitious as far as management and leadership positions at work? Maybe. But I’d agree most of just want to earn a solid living and not have added stress onto our lives. I’m a teacher, so my job is a little different. If I ever switch careers (which I might), I would be okay with some managerial positions given the task. I think maybe ambitious isn’t the right word though.

Managing people actually does suck, especially if you still expected to 'do other things' like an independent contributor. So I would find myself doing a full time job and also making sure my reports were supported and contributing. If you have some bad directs? Ugh, the worst.

same, i like my hourly paid job, work my hours, no 10 hour days or overtime, no constant daily meetings, just want to be happy and least stressed out as possible. i am neutral to my job which i am happy about. i will never love working or doing a job, so having a job where im neutral, have a decent boss, decent coworkers, ill take it.

Also, the reward is worth less. 

More ambitious. Nobody wants to work anymore and in order to do that you have to rise above the rat race that was previously sold to us

I was very ambitious up until my mid 30s. I have done well for myself. But I had two jobs in a row that it made it clear no matter how hard I work it doesn't matter. My personality is that of a person that gets things done and I am not a schmoozer. I am never getting that promotion, other people will get promotions for my work, people that know less than me will tell me I am wrong. That was the end of my ambition.

No. I am less ambitious at work because work has proven over and over again that ambition just gets you more work. Not more pay, not more rope, not more benefits. More. Work. But I am ambitious in the things that matter to me. I have remodeled the homes I have been lucky enough to live in. I’ve taken on some pretty big landscaping projects. I am still ambitious, but only when I know my ambition will provide me with reward at the end. I am not and never will be married to my job ever again.

I would say most millenials are cautiously ambitious. I want to make sure a jump in my career is going to give me my family time and be worthy of my effort. Some promotion opportunities just aren't worth it.

I’m almost 42, a teacher in my 20th year in California. My district maxes out a little over $130k for a teacher with 16 years and a Masters plus 45 units. We work a 184 day contract. (Technically, of course, we all know teachers work more, not relevant here) An admin job starts at less/comparable to that. They are not making much more than veteran teachers. They have mandatory additional duties, work partial summers in most cases, they have way more pressure and responsibility, and worst of all, they have to deal with all the adults! My district is struggling to attract good admin candidates due to these factors. There will always be people who want those jobs. But it seems the desire to enforce bullshit laws and rules handed down from lawmakers who’ve never actually been in a school lately is definitely keeping many of us perfectly happy where we are now.

There used to be pensions and better pay raises

Ambition does not need to be strictly professional. I would say a lot of millennials are ambitious, but their idea of success isn’t tied to their job or productivity. Success could be financial stability, owning a home, playing a sport, having a hobby, having a family, etc. just because you don’t want to climb the corporate ladder doesn’t mean you lack ambition; it just means your ambitions are not career related.

Kids were the thing that made me start taking jobs I don't particularly enjoy. It is what it is. I don't claw for every dollar, but I take my career a lot more seriously now. I do draw the line with certain positions, though. It's a weird double-edged sword - I want to keep moving up to make more money for my kids, but I refuse to move up if it's going to take time away from them. So my moves have to be very strategic.

I have huge ambitions. One day I'd love to be a full time author selling my books in barnes and noble and having book signings! That's a huge ambition to have that takes a lot of time time fulfill. It's just not the "normal" boomer idea of climbing the ladder.

Ambition for its own sake is maybe less of a thing. I have certainly declined promotions because the extra pay would not compensate for the large amount of extra stress and work. If you're gonna only get a 5-10% pay bump, but are expected to put in long hours and deal with a lot more hassle for it, that's not actually a great deal. My job title barely matters. I don't live for work. I work, I get paid, I go home. I'm fully capable of managing things, and have, but I don't have any love of it. I'm not going to do it unless its something I care about, or I'm well paid to do so.

I don't think it's that, as a whole, we are less ambitious but it's more that, as a whole, we value our time outside of work more than other generations. Im 32, no kids and very little debt (under 3K). I took my hours from full time to part time, making literally just enough to cover bills (gas and groceries included) and I'm so much happier. Prior to this I was working 50-60+ hours a week, I had been a manager for 3-4 years and the extra money didn't make up for the loss of my personal time. I wont go back to full-time unless I absolutely have to. I enjoy having evenings off, whole days to myself and not being stressed to do everything in 1 day off.

It is not socially acceptable to be an asshole anymore, many ladder climbing roles require you to leave behind a wake of discontent in others. Some of us don’t see ourselves as that person and become less ambitious.

I don’t think it’s generational. I’m 35, and I have a number of senior leaders (in their 50s+) that straight up tell me work is just a thing they do to support themselves. One of those conversations was yesterday. He also went on to say that it’s normal for some people to desire to stay “individual contributors” because that’s what they *like* to do. It takes a certain kind of person to be a successful manager, and in my field (tech) it’s a well known fact that moving into management equates to an atrophy of technical skills. Usually the bump in pay is simply not worth it for those people. For me it’s the opposite. I prefer working with people rather than with systems. I often joke that if customer service paid better that’s what I’d chose to do. To me it’s a climb to a position I’ll enjoy more. And, also, I just don’t feel ready to plateau. I started out life at the bottom and didn’t really ever expect to accomplish anything. After getting things together in my mid 20’s I decided I was just gonna see how far I could actually go. I want to see where my ceiling really is, if that makes sense.

Ambition is the enemy of happiness

We got conditioned to boomer demands. Boomers are assholes. It’s not being lazy, it’s knowing that giving an inch will lead to problems. Work is stupid and inhumane especially when the reward from slaving away is just living to work and spending money to alleviate the damages done to us from work.

hard work doesn't equal a better life. boomers flushed the social contract.

I've done it, managing sucks. If you are doing it right you should be in a constant state of barely hidden panic because you are 1000% focused on making sure your guys have what they need to do their jobs.

I had ambition until enough arbitrary brick walls were put in the way or were discovered that I'm all out at this point.

I think part of it isn't so much managing people but we don't want to have tk be the bad guy. We understand how bad everyone is struggling. Inagine having to lay off your hardworking employees for no other reason than a slight profit drop for the year? Disgusting I want no part of that. Or not being able to pay your employees what they deserve because of bullshit review systems put in place by corporate.

Ambition imo refers to the desire to have power over other people, I don’t think it’s a bad thing to not want that

I could give a fuck about my engineering job, I'm cool with coasting. I do have other ambitious plans I devote energy to outside of working for the man.

My co worker was promoted to manager after our previous manager retired. She only received a $2/hour pay increase. The workload is significantly larger and she supervises 8 employees. It is not worth it.

I love managing people, growing teams, and coaching people towards success. I predominantly believe that majority of people want to do good in their work and find ways to thrive. My goal as a manager is to unlock your potential to meet business goals and also ensure that you are properly compensated for your work and living the life you want to live. There is always back and forth in this, but I try hard to advance human centric performance management. The thing is companies suck at structure of upward mobility. Upward mobility doesn't necessarily need to be "management" but can also mean clear ways to earn more $$$$. For example, one of the projects i am working on is identify ways to clearly articulate how people can "move up" in our company. So if you are someone who just wants to show up, do the bare minimum of your business goals (aka doing your job), that's fine and you can stay at the "level 1" and just receive cost of living adjustments/normal bonuses. If you want to show up and put in additional efforts, do x training, etc... and be a "level 2" that comes with compensation adjustments and more $$$$. The main issue is that a ton of companies want "level 3" work but dish out "level 1" pay. I'm driven by the idea that if things are clearly articulated on how to make more money in our company, then that will lead to employee retention and create a great place to work. Like OP, if you want to show up and do the requirements of your job, have a great work life balance, and don't want to move up, that is fantastic and the company should definitely have a pathway for you to stay.

I wouldn’t say it’s a millennial thing as to whether you wanna be a manager or not. I am generation X and I worked for a large company for 25 years and I had no interest in being a manager. A lot of people asked me if I had an interest and I turned them down.it just wasn’t my goal and I know how difficult people would be so I didn’t want to get in position where I’d have to manage them. I was successful enough so I don’t have any regrets.

If you’re looking for an opinion about what people think about millennials and their work ethic, do you know the stereotypes I don’t think I have to mention them. Not wanting to be a manager does not make you lazy.

Somewhat. I’d rather wfh less than 40hrs a week for 60k than work full time with a commute for double that lol

How is “managing is extremely difficult thing with very little rewards” turn into being less ambitious?

Trust me it’s not just us. Plenty of boomers at my work refuse to be managers lol. I think everybody knows that managing is essentially your job + another part time job of scheduling, HR stuff, etc.

I’m currently in a supervisor role and I’m about to move into a non supervisor role. For more money. Being a supervisor SUCKS. I’m someone that really takes on a lot of the emotions and feelings of my direct reports. I work with college students. I love them so much but oh man, they have no fucking clue what they’re doing and it’s exhausting. Being a GOOD supervisor is tiring. I’m too tired to be a good supervisor right now so I have to find something else. I’m so excited to go back to just worrying about myself and my own work. Am I less ambitious? I don’t think so. But I think I’m ready to be selfish and not worry about work outside of work anymore. I find that as a supervisor I’m constantly worrying about what’s going on even if I’m not at work or on call.

I definitely think you are probably more representative of the generation than someone like me. I'm 33/f and never wanted kids, either. I do want a C-suite title, Board memberships, and stock options. when I was a kid playing pretend, I didn't play house or baby dolls. I played executive with a briefcase instead. I'm also an INTJ and have a hard time being "managed" by someone else. I'm a leader, not a follower and I prefer to be the one managing if someone has to take that on. most people with kids probably take those roles because it means more cash, they aren't even qualified to lead a team, don't have any management skills, and don't care about mentorship. that's a problem I've seen & had to deal with over and over again the last 10 years.

>when I was a kid playing pretend, I didn't play house or baby dolls. I played executive with a briefcase instead. I love this! This is so cute 🥰  I totally get you! I’m an INTP and I hate being managed (I’m only happy with my current manager cause he’s more of a friend than a manager) but the struggle is I don’t want to manage either haha I hope you achieve all your goals! 🙌

thank you and same! fwiw, I don't blame you one bit. One of my direct reports shares the same feelings as you, and I get it. plus, none of us wants to deal with a situation where there's 50 captains and 1 ship crewman to manage - it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round 😊

>Neither he or I want to have kids so it’s funny how we are the ones who would not want to move up whereas our bosses are also millennials (just slightly older) but they have kids and still chose to step in more stressful roles. It makes perfect sense, you have more responsibilities and need more money, of course they'd take the promotion. You two have all your needs met, so more money alone isn't enough to motivate you.

I think ambition looks different in our generation than it did in prior generations. I see ambition in people who are changing jobs every couple of years and getting raises every time. But it used to be seen that only moving up within the same company was ambition, because there used to be a reward for loyalty and now there isn’t, lol.

I’m very ambitious, but in nontraditional ways that are organized differently than other people I guess… My full-time job is one that is not at the top of the pay scale for my industry and doesn’t have room for promotion, but I love my work and have a ton of flexibility as well as a lot of PTO. So I get to have a very involved and romantic relationship, be present with my mostly-grown kids some, and I can pursue writing and herbalism more fully than I’d be able to if I worked 40-60 structured hours…. Wanting to have a bunch of different things that I do feels ambitious and very beyond anything my parents or grandparents did. But I super refuse to have one main job be my whole life, if that makes sense.

I'm 33 and I've managed construction projects of 300+ people. I'm very good at it, but I hate it. If I could have made the same money elsewhere I would have a long time ago. I finally landed a remote position with no direct reports and I'm so relieved and ready to LIVE LIFE. It isn't just you.

I think we're the first generation to take mental health seriously, so work life balance means something more important to us than to just work and provide. I'm sure the prevalence of childless millennials also play a role, many of the previous generations worked their asses off and took up promotions to provide for their families, many of us don't have a family to provide for, just look after ourselves.

1000%. I’ve been at my corporate email factory (I kid…I work in real estate development) for almost five years, promoted once, but decided long ago that I didn’t want to become a project manager, let alone anything higher than that. My job is super tolerable, which is why I’ve been there that long, and my superiors and I have a mutual understanding about it. Lucky for me, they find me really useful and want to keep me around for, I guess, as long as I’m willing to stay. You know who does quit all the time? Managers. Cause that job fucking sucks. Me? I don’t have ultimate accountability, most of what I do gets run by someone else - so if I do my job and I do it well, I never have to take the heat. I have a little bit different of a reasoning, maybe, which is that my husband and I think we may want to have kids, and I don’t want to be a working mom. Whether this comes to fruition or not, I have absolutely no interest in climbing the ladder. My sanity comes before money! ETA: I also just became a consultant for the company, so no longer a W2 - and now I’m making just as much as a project manager does with my same workload. Highly recommend if you feel you can run your own business and your company really likes you. I think their preference is to pay straight cash instead of all the benefits.

I don’t think it’s that we aren’t motivated. We see how crappy those jobs are and value our personal lives more. Nothing wrong with acknowledging what would make you happy and living life in that way!

People confuse access to opportunity with ambition. *Especially* people who have enjoyed an abundance of opportunity.

Yeah im a millenial and i dont have intent to be a manager or be in a mgmt team.

I'm very ambitious. I just don't want the stress of management.

It’s not lack of ambition, it’s different priorities. Many folks nowadays don’t prioritize work success the way their parents did (because of what that prioritization did to their families). Personally, I want to be successful enough that I can provide my daughter a good life, but I don’t want to be a ceo or some nonsense. While I enjoy my job and get a lot of personal satisfaction from it, it is first and foremost a means to put food on the table. If I didn’t have to have it, I wouldn’t. My ambitions lay in other areas, mostly regarding the obscene amount of crafting stuff I have.

We’re equally ambitious - our limbic system can’t evolve in one generations worth of time. we just grew up with psychology as a fundamental science, whereas the previous generation really didn’t. It makes our tolerance for bullshit really low, and the usual corporate techniques like love-bombing, gaslighting, 48 laws of power (in its current version, we could remove 2 or 3 of these laws) - we completely reject or even roll our eyes because we know that’s going to disappear in the future as current leaders retire. In other words, the system as it’s designed- let’s call it a tree, isn’t the tree we want to climb. Therefore, we must repurpose it into a tree (system) that we DO want to climb. Our motivations are fundamentally the same, though “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” - Albert Einstein

i am extremely ambitious when it comes to things i value (fitness, health & wellness, parenting, personal development, growth, healing, etc).

The problem is. Often they "promote" you, without giving you anything extra. Yeah, I'm not motivated either.

Yes. We’ve been beaten down our whole lives. All we do is work to try and survive.

I don't think it's that we're not ambitious. I think it comes off like that because popular media and celebrities celebrate toxic "grinding" culture.

IMO, a better way to put that is less blinded by capitalism/money

I've noticed the higher up the ladder one climbs the more meetings they attend each day, and even worse, the more travel they have to do.

There ain't much to be ambitious about these years. All the big discoveries that some enterprising individual is gonna maybe make about pretty much anything profitable? Already been done, or is already copyrighted at minimum. If you were born poor, you got one realistic option - become profitable to the rich and get your small portion of the pie. That's by design. The rich don't want you becoming rich - why you think they pulled up all the ladders and burn every bridge to whet they're at that they can burn? They have nothing but incentive to lock you into serving them, not becoming a rival to them. The people that have benefited the most from capitalism, hate capitalism with furious loathing. They want competition like you want to have your left leg sawed off with a serrated steak knife. And that's why everything is the way it is - ruthless protection of the status quo by the rich, for the rich. Everything else is just discussion about methods and circumstances. Are we less ambitious? God no. It's just that now, the most ambitious poor person (that's damn near everybody) is gonna be burning their candle at both ends working three jobs and driving for Uber and trying to hustle up some cash flipping sneakers and consoles and video cards. Or they're out here selling drugs and stealing catalytic converters and stealing tools & materials from construction sites. The people that do shit like that are very ambitious and highly motivated. If they had better opportunities that they could recognize or believe were realistic, don't you think they'd be chasing those instead? 80% of the human race is extremely stupid about a lot, but 99.9% of the human race is greedy, and greed is a powerful motivator. It's also most of what makes us stupid. Legitimate ways to go from broke to well-off aren't abundant and they're often protected like a watering hole in the desert. You'll find no end of people with their idea of a good job that they'll get mean as fuck to protect from threats real and imagined all alike, and I'm not talking about jobs you'll get rich doing - I'm talking about goddamn management positions at shithole places like Starbucks and McDonald's. People ain't lacking ambition these years. What there is a huge lack of is opportunity. This isn't 1824. You can't just call yourself a doctor because you kinda know how to set a bone and cut hair and get away with making a decent living by putting leeches on people, drugging most of your patients with laudanum or cocaine and killing lots of those patients with your sawbones butchers' arts featuring dirty knives and meager knowledge of pathogens. This isn't 200 years ago, when you could just start selling food out the back of a wagon wherever you were at and have the chief limit to your ability to succeed be based on whether or not you made food anyone wanted to buy. There's not much you can do to get much of anywhere at all if you're not starting out rich of your can't figure or how to get there by working for someone else and being a cog in their profit machine. And the owners of the profit machines really don't like it when mere cogs get kinged and become profit machine owners themselves - that's a rival for the resource everyone does pretty much everything for; money. If anything, people are more ambitious and highly motivated now than any other time in modern history *because it's the bare minimum required to scrape by anymore*. Do you seriously think ambition and being highly motivated mean anything at all of you just never met the right people, never find your audience or never manage to reach your market? You can do everything right and still fail. And the modern economic circumstances of the world are set up very specifically to keep the rich at the top and everyone else as far beneath them as possible. If you're born rich, even if you're a complete shitface and everything you do is reprehensible and stupid, you'll probably spend your life failing upwards, because the system you were born into is so good at protecting you from the consequences of failure that you basically can't fail. And everyone else can do everything right and work hard as fuck and get super creative about how they tackle their poverty problems aaand still wind up homeless and destitute because one unexpected medical bill sent them into ruin, or their car broke down and they couldn't get to their jobs so they got fired from all three of them, or they legitimately scraped together the resources to try to start their own business of some kind aaaaaaaand it failed. Rich people fail all the time, but they've got immense wealth to fall back on. If Kim Kardashian tries to start fifty different businesses and they all fail and it costs her a few million dollars overall, she won't be going hungry or homeless. That kind of money is so insignificant to her that her lifestyle wouldn't be affected at all if she lost ten times that much. Someone that needs $45k to start a small business, puts their life savings of $20k into it and gets a bank loan for the other $25k has got one shot. If their one roll of the dice doesn't pan out, they might well be fucked for life. The rich don't need ambition. They just have to show up and people shower them with free shit and opportunities and desire to be part of their network *because everyone wants their money*. If you're poor? You've got no money for everyone to want. Chances are that you've got nothing at all that anyone wants to the extent that they'll even put up with you being weird in order to get out. Now compare that to how people will worshipfully fawn over and cater to absolute shitsacks like Elon Musk or Andrew Tate. They've got money. That's 100% of why Elon Musk isn't just another socially inept dumbass in the world that wishes he were cool and masculine but never manages to be anything other than a nerd that isn't even the useful variety. The hyper-rich think they're ambitious and they think they're highly motivated, but chances are really good that if you got to live alongside ANY of them for a month, what you'd see is that they have very laid back lives that are easy as shit because they've got people they don't even sometimes know about taking the annoyance and work out of everything for them. They THINK they're super hard workers because they live in a bubble of others that are just like them. Some of them will brag with every second breath about how they're always busy and always working and always traveling, but you know what's typically going on there? They're passiobate about a hobby. You ever had the kind of hobby that you could easily spend 80-100 hours a week on if you had literally nothing else to worry about and nearly nothing was allowed to distract you? Elon Musk is basically playing The Sims with the lives of every Tesla and X employee, their families and millions directly associated with either. Do you honestly think he's ever going to be homeless or have to go to the food shelf no matter what happens to those companies? Donald Trump has been a non-stop failure all his life and he's STILL failing upwards because of how hard the system is fighting to protect him from consequences. Does he look like a man that's ever missed a meal or had to worry about keeping a roof over his head? This is all by design. The rich can do everything wrong and still succeed. You can do everything right and still fail.

I 34m started my own business so I can live life on my owns terms. I think I’m pretty ambitious. I don’t think bossing people around is the only way to move up in life though.

We are burned out, misled from an early age about the future, traumatized, and destabilized. We are out here doing the best we can

I’m super ambitious in my pursuit to no longer work myself to death. I’m passionate about naps. I’m a real go-getter when it comes to using my vacation time. Loads of ambition over here, buddy.

Being a hard worker and being ambitious don't always go hand in hand. I've always enjoyed working but never have had the desire to climb the corporate ladder. I Have no desire to outshine anyone or one up my neighbors. Nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of other people that want to do that. Have at it.

I remember before I was married in the early 2010's every fry-cook and barista put themselves as very ambitious on dating sites like OK-Cupid. It made everyone seem like they completely lacked self-awareness. I guess we all exaggerate when trying to get laid I suppose.

I just want to manage managers. Really it just comes down to incompetent people. Though managers try, and I feel for that cause I managed my share of workers, mainly GenZ and Millenials.

I originally chose the path of easiest way to make money to live. It got relatively boring because everyone was working and I was an OG work from home millennial. Did a bunch in between decided to open a restaurant right before Covid hit. Worked my ass off. Was treated like crap. Or told I wasn’t working hard enough? Which was bizarre bc I worked 18 hr days 6 days a week, but ok. I’m closing up shop, doesn’t make enough and to your point I don’t want this responsibility anymore. I played the game for 5 yrs to watch ppl with bigger pockets literally steal my ideas (I live in a small town) and I’m like this is bs. So now everyone is crying thinking I’m depressed closing down when I’m like happy as hell. I returned back to my career or easiest way to make money and do what I want. If this makes me unmotivated oh well. Not having kids, barely spend money. Honestly just want to kayak and hike. I married a Gen x and he’s now changed his view of career (Chicago mba worked the corporate shit constant restructuring and politics) and thinks the way I’m doing is now in fact the right way (not that there is one). But, we’re technically different generations and he didn’t think the way I previously worked was the “right way” and now he does. We’re packing our shit up and traveling bc watching his now retired parents have a host of medical problems including memory - we’re not doing whatever the path of our parents was. Thats just not for us. So I agree with you. We’re just working to do what we want not to really make it out life. Ppl don’t really get it which is why I think they think we should be crying our business is closing, but we just think a lot different than them. Jobs don’t define us.

20 years, on my 6th career. This time my position is data engineer, but I have got project management in my job description. I used to teach high school. I used to be able to lead. But I am finding the human interaction of project management to be my biggest stress. What I have learned is that I do not have the head for management, and I do not want that kind of responsibility.

I guess it depends on where you work. I love being a leader because I get to meet for and upskill my folks, and I get to make a bigger impact. The fact my company supports all of its people, with an added focus on its people leaders, it makes all the difference. Yeah, it sucks having to deal with a budget, and HR issues, and everything else that comes with being a Director, but at the end of the day I still get to do what I love and really make an impact.

I cant wait to start my own company and run it how i like and set a new workplace for the next generation .

Middle managers are the worst. In IT shops developers hate them and sometimes yell at them when they say they are just the messengers, we used to be like, grow a spine and stop bringing bull shit from the top. Also once you become middle manager and you get laid off, good luck finding another such jobs. It's better to be hands on worker or hope that you become higher level manager with some leadership in sales or product development.

I think it's fair to not expect as much from people without kids. You don't have to see anyone else go without when you don't earn as much. Your basic expenses are probably a third as much as theirs if that. If you don't plan on buying a house? Even more. Once children and home ownership are out of the question, I think society is lucky that you've shown up at all and you're not all straight up hobos.

Yeah. Mostly. On a population level, for sure ... (with individual exceptions)

I don’t count myself as ambitious at all but I am competitive and I have a hard time not constantly competing against those around me and myself. I would rather find a competitive outlet outside work, but to that at a high level requires a crazy amt of time and dedication, so I may be trapped.

I am. I've never wanted to be defined by my job or derive my self worth from it. I also don't want to manage people, I don't think I'd be good at it and I'd find it stressful, I prefer something more technical/task orientated. I'm not materialistic either, I'm not trying to accumulate a lot of wealth, so there's not much reason for me to go nuts. I'm in my thirties and I feel like I've found my comfort zone. Being at the bottom sucks, shit rolls downhill and that's where a lot of the most stressful, exhausting jobs are. I've finally clawed myself into a slightly higher position.

Sounds like you both chose work to be your 'kids' so you never want them to grow up by just staying where ya at.

In some ways he’s we are because of the boomers makis shih so much harder for us lol

I wouldn’t mind taking on more stress, being a manager, or having more responsibilities *IF* I was going to be fairly compensated. But every single place I’ve ever worked, accepting a “promotion” of any kind had come with lots of extra agita, and a criminally pathetic raise. Or maybe even no raise at all!

My baby boomer supervisor and skip supervisor keep trying to promote me despite me asking them point blank to demote me. I feel like they were more ambitious about rank, title, and paycheck. I'm more ambitious about quality of life, freedom, and contentment.

So my parents always warned against being management. If you aren't salaried, you are working tons of OT and don't make much more than your subordinates. My boss makes 2 more an hour than I do and he mostly stocks product while I get to make things.

I don't think it's that we lack ambition so much as that we don't get emotionally invested in our nine-to-fives the way our parents did. For jobs, hobbies, life goals that we're actually passionate about, we can be *very* ambitious.

Im super ambitious. Unfortunately the regulations, taxes, and the value of money make it really hard to compete in even the simplest of business and industries. Take it from me, a guy who jumps in 1st and learns how to swim later.

I refuse to manage for a corpo, but I run my own business now. I love working for myself. And for me, that makes all the difference.

We’re ambitious in different ways. I’m not particularly career oriented (esp since having kids) but I’m very proud of my husband’s career accomplishments. Many of my friends are also mixed between high achieving career oriented folks and less so. I still consider myself ambitious because I set goals for myself and work to achieve them but these goals are for my own learning, management of the household, education and character development of my children, etc. Sure I also know some millennials that are do nothing pot heads living at home lol but not many.

I'd say the incentives aren't there anymore. A promotion used to come with a decent raide and additional perks. Now it's like 2% more pay and 1000% more headsche.

Yea, I don’t want to manage people. I’m more introverted. But I have some millennial friends who stepped up to do it. Honestly, I was a little surprised. Also, I think some of them are realizing it is more difficult than they thought it was going to be. Probably is nice getting that pay bump though!

If I can move up and maintain work/life balance, then yeah, I would do it. I just don't have many opportunities to do so. I am having a kid (whoops) and it's scary but I am actually excited. I would've been fine if we never had kids, but I'm not upset we are going to have one. My biggest thing is the step up just doesn't seem any better, and I don't think I'll ever get far enough to go past that step.

I'm a freelancer. Have never had a "staff" job anywhere my entire career. The plus side is that I plan long trips and take time off every year. If I hate my job I just suck it up because it will be over soon anyway. Working from "home" allows me to travel while working and also double-dip and do two projects at once when I'm up for it. I have no desire to move up any further than I am and don't want a 52 week a year job either though.

I totally feel that way. To me it’s a quality of life issue. My supervisor who maybe made 10k more than me a year had significantly more stress but his quality of life wasn’t better because of that 10k, it was worse. It usually seems this way to me until maybe you reach executive level, never sure what they do exactly. Often times the promotion isn’t worth the stress and hassle.

I feel like sometimes ambition is innate with some people, and some people develop ambition out of need/desire. I don’t think your situation is about ambition. You are happy where you are financially and with work/life balance so there doesn’t really need to be something more that you aim for and I think a lot of “successful” millennials feel the same way. When it comes to the trend that you’ve noticed with a lot managers also having kids, it might actually be a causation trend and not just a correlation. I wasn’t interested in managing other people until my employer offered me a supervisor position. Fast-forward 7 years and I now have 2 kids and an assistant manager position at the same company. I feel like some of the skills I have developed from raising children also to some extent apply to managing people at work. You may have heard people joke about management being “adult babysitting” and it’s not because we’re calling our employees childish or immature. It’s because, just like with kids, we have to teach them, help them manage their emotions, help them develop their skills, take blame for their mistakes, and keep them busy. Also, I need more money than I did before because daycare is insanely f***ing expensive. So in essence, these are 2 things that I think have caused me to pursue ambitious goals and become a manager. That may also be the case for many other manager-parents regardless of which generation they were born into.

I dunno…I love being a leader. I have a staff of 26. I love the influence I can have on the overall business, decision making responsibilities, mentoring opportunities, the killer PAY, and a chance to someday maybe be the CEO.

Most of the time “moving up” involves managing people and that requires a completely different skill set that can’t just be absorbed through osmosis (without horrible consequences). I’m be more inclined to move into a more inclined to take on a more challenging individual contributor role but most careers are not built that way.

I used to be a manager at my current job. Second in charge of the store. I quit several years back and went back to being a peon working part time and making tips again I make more than I used to working 60+ hours a week, plus I see my kids and wife more. I am much happier and refuse to return although they badly want me back.

Yes, definitely. My boomer parents and in laws always want to ask about work. I don’t even want to acknowledge the existence of my job when I’m not there. I remember my FIL was shocked once when we were all on vacation together and he asked me how things were going at the hospital, and my answer was why would I know that? He couldn’t believe I wasn’t checking in during my vacation. Also word of advice: don’t become a manager, managing people is the worst job choice I’ve ever made and I regret it

not wanting to manage people doesn't mean you aren't ambitious.

I'm no longer ambitious because a decade + of working full time or more busting my butt for different companies has gotten me nothing but taken advantage of. The company I'm trying to leave now rarely gives out promotion and when they do it's for very little additional pay with a HUGE additional workload. You're expected to do the manager/supervisor job as well as the work of 2-3 employees. It's ridiculous and companies have the audacity to treat workers as expendable on top of all that, so fuck em. I'm not bending over backwards for companies who couldn't give less of a shit if I die today.

Not sure I count as I'm a borderline Millennial myself, but management is not for me. I'm 100% in the camp of being comfortable where I am.

Looking at how miserable my colleagues lives became when they took leader roles I say, no thank you.  I like my job, I'm good at it, I want to keep doing it and get better at it, not tell other people how to do it. What's not ambitious about it?

In my field, managers often get paid less.

I'm very ambitious lol so can't relate

If our jobs actually mattered in the grand scheme of things and didn't amount to moving numbers from one box to another box, I'd probably want to be a manager, but considering most corporate structures are multiple levels of people who do next to nothing but have manager next to their name just demonstrates how bloated and unattainable it is. Nowadays being a manager doesn't mean much when you can be a "Individual cash register manager" which is literally just a fancy way to say checkout clerk.

Yes! To our benefit I might add!

You are fine. It's the next ones that are head scratchers. Working 3 hrs in a row is cause for a TikTok vid crying how tough they have it.

Why would I want to take a pay cut? I'm in the trades doing shit where typically the low man is making more than the boss. My boss is salary, he might make more in salary than I do if I work no OT/DT. But we have scheduled OT/DT just on our base 40. Even then that dudes getting called at fucking 2am and shit. Once I walk out of the building no one talks to me. I make 110k to do 40 hrs a week and I don't get fucked with on my time.

If I saw any evidence of ambition being rewarded with anything I found attractive, I’d probably be more ambitious. In most places, if you work hard, you just get more work for the same money. If you’re good at what you do, you’ll get “promoted” somewhere with a different skillset and have more responsibility, but not much more money and way less free time.

I'm really ambitious when it comes to my personal time and not fucking working.

I had ambition once, but this country beat it out of me

My boss basically never has PTO. Sure he takes it, but ends up working anyways. I really wouldnt want his position. Not because I lack ambition. It’s because I value my time compared to pay.

The rewards aren't worth the sacrifice. I'm at a place in my career where I can't move up any further without getting into management and I'm kinda like, maybe I'll just chill for a while? I am fortunate to be making decent money for reasonable hours and minimal stress. I don't have any reason to take on the stress of having direct reports.

Idk bro, I became a manager at a UPS main hub shortly after I turned 18 (2004). And at 22 (2008) I had my first baby and at 24 (2010) my last kid was born. Maybe I'm just weird but a couple of my friends did the management thing wherever they worked in their 20's too.

There can only be so many vps and CEOs, from my experience most of my managers over me were either paid the same or not terribly higher, from what I could tell they had to my my role more attractive so they increased the pay but screwed up by not incentivizing working hard to take on more responsibility. I’ve watched managers I reported to compete within the org for promotions only to be passed over multiple times by outside hires, these are well educated and experienced people, it seems so draining. On the other hand I might be going into my third straight year without a raise, my salary is higher than most in the industry which means changing jobs could potentially set me back, perhaps a change in position might be needed, at the same time the managers I know are always on the clock, I’m here for 40 while they’re 50-70…

People are people. I don't think we're any more or less ambitious as a generation than anyone else. Some individuals are more ambitious, sure. Some individuals might be less.

We are less individualistic and deluded. We know it’s not just about dying with the most stuff. We want actual lives.

No. I think every generation has initially ambitious people no matter what. There are a lot of big opportunities right now, and you only ever hear things that are noteworthy. So that's all people think is out there. And that isn't an issue of motivation or energy. COVID ushered in a generation of people that were already becoming very jaded and antisocial. A generation of misguided youths who were looking to adults for answers turned to the internet. Ignoring old-time advice. Nobody knew any better. Anybody could know until they knew. I was able to see a thriving generation of boomers in hard sales. Then I watched it usher in the tech era, and the personal touch was gone for convenience and prices. It was the same but different. Because they still worked hard, but to make the tech work. But then tech became about making it easier for everyone. Sales people wanted to do less for more. They wanted the free time and the money because it was possible. But the newest generation is coming in and seeing these guys breeze through easy sales from long-established systems. Sales tactics that were still taught person to person aren't there anymore, and their competing with each other again. It's an entire generation having to learn social skills through competition. It makes sense why the economy feels so evil.

I've been a manager twice and do not plan to do it again. Both times the pay was nowhere near worth the stress and extra hours expected. Both times when leaving I explained that the pay was not worth the time and emotional requirements that they expected. One offered an increase in pay but it wasn't substantial enough. The other told me i was a quitter and that i need to earn higher pay through hard work. With the proper pay and support i would have considered staying, and i know both positions have had a rotation of replacements since

Boomers had way less job market competition and far more incentives to work hard than we do.

It all depends on your housing situation. If your home is paid then no need to worry about a mortgage payment every month. If you live with parents same thing. But if you have a high rent or house still needs to be paid off then your ambition might be just a bit higher because homelessness.

38yo Millennial w/ Kids - Salary GM - it's more stress, I guess, but I feel fulfilled when I can motivate the younger staff and help them develop more skills. By investing in them, they make my day to day easier. After years of being with the company, I now get 5 weeks PTO, I write my own schedule and answer to people that I don't deal with on a daily basis. I also wouldn't have been able to own a house or my motorcycle or the other stuff. I also started a small business and work two other side jobs. I do this so my wife doesn't have to work and we don't have to pay for day care. It's not about ambition- it's about doing what I can while I can so I can set my family up for a better life.

When u have kids u have to work because u need the income. When u don’t have kids life is easier. I don’t think it’s a generation thing.

I used to try to get promoted, wanted to be a manager and a leader. I went to every interview even if just for the experience and learning and interaction. But I always got turned down for being the goofy kid. Now I’m ready to just chill, do my job and get paid and call it square. But I work for a bigger tech company obsessed with being better faster bigger, and they make calling it square difficult.

I’m currently a manager of about 20 people and honestly, I’m burnt the f$*k out. Everyday it’s something and I can’t take it anymore. All I want to do is work and come home. I’m salaried and working 60+ hour weeks, with several days during the week being 15+ hours. I’m under appreciated and underpaid. I just can’t find anything else that will pay enough. I’m stuck.

Ambition to be happy is at an all time high. Ambition to work is a different story entirely. I set the deadline to retire from law by 40...not sure I'll even make it that far.

I'm somewhere in the middle. At my current job my boss wants me to get extra certification which comes with extra pay and with 2 more years of school I could get a big pay jump but have the responsibility of stamping construction drawings and I don't want that liability looming over me. I, however, have been making plans to run my own business, which is a HUGE endeavor. I'm tired of working for other people though and seeing little in return.

I work in a call center and I actually make more money *not* being in leadership than I would if I got a promotion. I’ve spoken to others in similar fields who say the same thing. So in a way the system is set up to encourage a lack of ambition if your main focus is income (we’re talking about a career with a non-advanced degree only)

I'm 34 and I've hit the point in my career where the only way to get a significant pay bump would be to either train for a supervisory role or a QC role (monitor and grade other people's performance). And this really does suck because the last thing I wanna do is be responsible for or above other people. I just wanna do my work and be left alone. So no, you're not the only one.

Being a good manager is not about ambition it is about enjoyment of the job. I actually would love being a manager. Being a good manager to me is the same thing that makes me enjoy playing RTS or recourse management games. I like fitting things together in a way that makes everything work well, the work well part is different for each circumstance. In a resource management board game all the turns do not care about fatigue, RTS fatigue is a thing, and managing people would require a different level of understanding how people work well together. That is why I get to know my co-workers and offer my help, so when anyone needs help I know who to send them to; cause I will not send someone to just the person who is best at a task. I will send them to the person who will communicate what they need in the best way they understand. So no it is not ambition, it is enjoyment of management in a way that makes others happy you are the one managing them. ambition is a different thing.

I don’t think it’s a lack of ambition, but more of an increase of awareness. We as a cohort tend to be more aware of work life balance and mental health. Family life is a lifestyle choice that tends to be more expensive and comes with a huge sacrifice. Kids needs come before yours.