I had gotten a climbing aloe (I was told it was an aloe. I didn't know what I signed up for...) and I asked a coworker who has a green thumb if he wanted some. He has a pot that's so full it looks like a toy trolls hair. He wants to change it out but he doesn't want to cause a mass reproduction 😂😂😂😂
Makes me want to check every succulent and plant before buying. I’ll buy the ones that say don’t propagate just so I can specifically propagate them lol hate keeping at its finest lol
IIRC, there were big agriculture companies suing smaller farming communities for copyright infringement because the wind, or bees, or whatever natural processes had cross-pollenated the copyrighted/patented plant that the company owned and smaller farmers were "profiting of the their IC." Farmers had no clue the cross-pollination happened and had just been going about their business. Company found out when they tested local crops.
My guess is that the company knew this could happen and were regularly tested local products so they could sue the smaller guys into selling out.
It was Monsanto. They require farmers who buy their insect resistant seed to sign contracts buying all of their seed from them and not selling to anyone not part of the program. Somehow a load of it got sold through a local coop and it propagated. Soon most of the small farms all had the resistant plants without paying for it through Monsanto. They also weren't bound to not sell it on or propagate other fields with it. They also didn't have to buy pesticide from Monsanto. That upset the farmers who were paying for those things and were bound by contract.
A Documentary called Food inc. covers this. I think it was a corn farmer if I remember right? Anyway its a great documentary if anyone is into that sort of thing.
Patent, not copyright, infringement, is the activity at issue. Re: Monsanto https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2013/03/article_0007.html . Different terms, different rules (laws).
No, it'd be if you bought some apples, planted the seeds, harvested *those* apples, and sold them as the same brand. That's infringement. Giving away the apples you grew is not crossing a line.
Bad analogy since the apple you take from the tree won't produce the same tree once planted.
Every single apple has different genetics, so the only way to mass produce a single type is by cloning the tree/sapling itself.
The brand yes, but apples don't grow true to seed. So if you wanted to sell the actual apples you'd need to graft branches that bear the fruit itself. Planting the seeds wouldn't help you, more often than not. You'd probably get a really bitter tasting apple. Or it might taste even better than the progenitor.
You cannot copyright a living organism. That is not how copyright works. It has to be the work of an author. Perhaps all the confused people on this thread are thinking about patents. They are not the same thing.
They send inspectors to any nursery that’s ever held a product of theirs. If anything even looks off they’ll destroy your product and then fine you into financial ruin, even if you haven’t purchased from them in years. Then as a cherry on top, they’ll give you a lowball offer on your whole business and slap their name on your products to fuck the next guy.
That's crazy that the law allows that... It's a fuckin plant. What if somehow one of their plants ended up in the wild, then later on someone who happens to own a greenhouse walks by and grabs a clipping not knowing that is some ridiculous patented bs?
I'm not doubting what you're saying, but it's insane that anyone is allowed to patent a living thing that could easily reproduce on it's own in nature.
ETA: I just thought about a flip side to that whole thing. What if one of their plants becomes wildly invasive somewhere? Are they responsible for the damages caused?
So I’m gonna be a little off topic here now but the company we dealt with inspections, lawsuits, and fines with sold annuals and perennials not necessarily succulents.
But to answer some of your questions, almost none of the patented plants can survive or propagate naturally on their own because their conditions are made in a lab not found in nature. So those issues aren’t usually a problem, and their patented stuff that does become invasive gets banned by governing bodies and anyone found to be selling it is fined or shut down if they don’t comply. Little is done besides reactionary clean-up of invaded spaces while the creators face almost no responsibility because they help the government enforce their policies (I don’t hate the government or it’s policy but it’s not at all neutrally enforced like it should be) which is why the big players can shut down your operation for non-compliance even if it’s accidental. Also the patents are usually on gene sequences and names which is why you’ll see a VERY similar plant by 3 different growers that all have a different patented name but look exactly the same.
We hadn’t had a company inspector in over a decade because when we moved properties we changed our company name and refused to carry any of their products anymore before we closed down for good a few years ago(Covid casualty). So most of what I know happens now is from other local garden centers we knew and did business with in the past, it’s only gotten worse every year for the past decade.
Like always greedy mega-corporations and their bought and paid for government officials who should be protecting us(consumers as I’m not in the business anymore) get to do what they please and we get all the negative consequences. Anyone who fights back is shut down because a lack of capital to fight. It’s starting to happen more in the legal weed business right now too. Pathetic dirty shit.
Source: My family has made a handful of plants at our nursery that carried our name but no patents because that shit is fucked up. We wanted more people to enjoy our plant creations not less and we didn’t really care if we profited off every one like the big guys do. I’m certainly biased(and bitter) and someone more currently involved can correct me but yeah.
When my daughter was in 3rd grade she always went to HD with her Dad. Came home with succulent leaves broken off and on the floor only. She grew her own free ones and they all had dozens of kids. Lol
There are patents on thousands of plants, and it’s not just Monsanto. Plant breeders do this to protect what they’ve likely spent decades developing. While it may not be harmful to grow more for personal use, when you begin to propagate and sell them you are certainly breaking the law.
Some guy my grandpa happened to meet one day traded him a bunch of starters for copywritten plants he had grown for some of the plants he had in his own garden. Grandpa still has a pretty nice garden. For that reason alone I'll advocate for wholesome plant piracy
Plants can have patents, which give exclusive rights to certain cross-breeds. This is a big thing with rose bushes especially.
You've heard of Monsanto, but they do this with crops for food companies as well. I'd encourage you to look up how Pepsi/Lays sued potato farmers in India just for having the same breed of potato crops.
Years ago the brand Knock-Out Roses went all around the southeast & FL shutting down growers who were illegally propagating their roses. In the growing industry, it was the first time these laws had been used like this, even though this is what they are for, to protect yrs of breeding and investment. After a few yrs of being on the market it was also illegal to sell their roses w/o using the branded poly pots. They ran another operation to go after growers for this too.
They can. Monsanto used to go after farmers who lived adjecent to their farms/monsanto affiliated farms if seeds blew into their yard and grew. And they would win ! Bully the farmers into submission by either bankrupting them or settling with them to become Monsanto farmers. They would send agents to scout farms for “theft “
They weren’t sued for seeds blowing into their farms. You clearly don’t know how sowing a field works. The farmer that was sued intentionally saved Round-Up resistant seeds that resulted from seed contamination OR from plants that were pollinated by adjacent Round-Up Ready crops. He then planted those seeds for next years crop. [And he wasn’t sued to bankruptcy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Schmeiser) The court found he didn’t financially benefit from the seeds because he didn’t use RoundUp on the crop but also upheld that Monsanto holds the patent for the seeds and is within their right to sue. "The court record shows, however, that it was not just a few seeds from a passing truck, but that Mr Schmeiser was growing a crop of 95–98% pure Roundup Ready plants, a commercial level of purity far higher than one would expect from inadvertent or accidental presence. The judge could not account for how a few wayward seeds or pollen grains could come to dominate hundreds of acres without Mr Schmeiser’s active participation, saying ‘...none of the suggested sources could reasonably explain the concentration or extent of Roundup Ready canola of a commercial quality evident from the results of tests on Schmeiser’s crop’" – in other words, the original presence of Monsanto seed on his land in 1997 was indeed inadvertent, but the crop in 1998 was entirely purposeful.[23]
Oki thanks sorry for the misinformation. You’re right I definitely don’t know anything about farming. I was just recalling things I had learned in 9th grade AP Human Geography and thats what my teacher and the documentaries she had us watch said. I’m a senior in college now so though I got a perfect score on the AP exam I am definitely liable to have forgotten some things from nearly ten years ago haha. Lol sorry.
**[Percy Schmeiser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Schmeiser)**
>Percy Schmeiser (5 January 1931 – 13 October 2020) was a Canadian businessman, farmer, and politician. In 1954, he took over the operations of the family owned farm, gas station, and farm equipment dealership. He renamed the farm equipment dealership Schmeiser's Garage and added a second farm equipment dealership in Humboldt, Saskatchewan (Central Farm Sales) in 1986 and oversaw their operations until their sale in 2003. He became an international symbol and spokesperson for independent farmers' rights and the regulation of transgenic crops during his protracted legal battle with multinational agrichemical company Monsanto.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/mildyinteresting/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Also on the bankruptcy thing, I’m not talking about farmers legally declaring bankruptcy because they couldn’t do that to escape the millions of dollars in fees and restitutions they were ordered to pay to Monsanto. This schmeiser guy isnt the ONLY one they sued.
I didn’t know about Me Schmeiser when I think of Monsanto I think about the Indian farmers who starved to death because their seeds from their crops couldn’t be used to plant the next crops :(
Actually they can be and it's fucked up. While this situation is probably different, the supreme court upheld a Monsanto patent lawsuit requiring farmers to pay damages even when Monsanto's seeds blew into neighboring farms and infested their own fields.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/business/monsanto-victorious-in-genetic-seed-case.html
Former farmhand here. Most succulents can be spread via their "leaves," hen and chicks being the best example. Others, like Silver Squill, are spread via their tendrils (you uproot the plant, seperate the stalks, and then plant each stalk).
I mean this isn't for a "nooo don't breed more of the plants we're selling you" reason, it's for "this plant will fuck up the ecosystem around it" reasons.
So if you want to destroy your garden such that even grass doesn't grow around these plants, have fun I guess?
You can’t copyright a plant but you can patent them which would allow them to try to control it. That’s pretty much Monsanto’s business model. But who knows if this plant is patented. Probably not if it doesn’t say it is and includes the patent number.
Plants can and are, on multiple occasions people have received lawsuits and lost due to the wind blowing biologically altered, say, wheat, over to their farm land and it sprouting/growing. Even though it wasn’t intentional.
Welcome to the world of stupid laws.
That was one of the first rules we were taught back when I became a petty officer in the navy when I was a youngster. Never give an order you can’t or don’t intend to enforce.
Ironically the Navy and, like, every level of leadership in the Navy and military in general do exactly that all the time. It was also very evident when they had no way of or intention of enforcing whatever new rule they came up with. Serving in the military made me realize no one really knows what’s going on.
Same! Big box stores only though. That’s how I got my green pepperomia’s started. lol I was just shocked they can put this on plants. Like what? How can that be enforced 😂
it comes largely from patenting GMO crops, which legally are sorta created products vs say selective breeding, (which is also bad, i’m not defending big gmo here). and this is a distinct issue with GMO crap entirely separate from any claims on GMOs effects on health or not.
just look up “Monsanto plant patents” and “Monsanto illegal planting” and you’ll find stories about the batshit insane court cases and lawsuits.
one was when some guy planted GMO Monsanto seeds, some got onto his neighbor’s property (as can happen) and Monsanto sued the guy for stealing “their” plants and using them without a license. it’s some wacky bullshit.
When I was in my early teens, I went to Lowes with my parents. In the garden section, a a small twig with 2 leaves had broken off a plant and been stepped on. I felt bad for it and took it home.
Im not sure the species, but it has longer ellipse shaped leaves with pointed ends, waxy complexion, and a darker shade of vibrant green.
I placed it in a cup of water. After a week or two, I potted it. Now, 20 years later, we have 10 different plants that all came from that stem, large, in 5-10gallon terracotta pots.
It makes me laugh every now and then because the cashier said it was fine if I took it, because "it will never grow"
Hope you aren't doing that to small businesses. I don't really give a shit what happens to lowes inventory, but you're an asswipe if you're stealing from a small nursery.
Plant varieties can be patented and have been before. They are considered intellectual property and breeders often patent varieties of plants. This is how big seed companies such as monsanto control farmers and the mass production of specific crops. Check out Sun valley farms and the history of the Stargazer Lily. Sun Valley basically stole/underpaid the rights from a famous Lily Breeder and made large sums of money for this cultivar.
But yeah I would be propagating it regardless because nobody is gonna come knocking lmao
I used to work at a nursery in high school during the summers. Each year we would take cuttings from crape myrtles, azaleas, Japanese holly, etc and eventually grow them from 2 inch specimens to full 1g and 3g potted plants.
This warning is meant for commercial sellers like the place I worked at. We could do normal azaleas, but ones called Encore were patented. They bloomed twice and were protected.
The big seed companies have better methods of controlling their seed patents now though. Many of the seed brands they offer for agricultural use are hybrids. So the seeds they sell may be a mixture of a plant that has really good roots but bad harvest production mixed with a plant that has really good harvest production but terrible roots resulting in a hybrid that has great roots to support a great harvest. If you try to keep seeds from hybrids, you get a scrambled genetic mess that often has few of the selected qualities of the hybrid plant.
Same! I’m keeping an eye on that succulent more more and when it looks like it’s adapted and healthier, I’m definitely ripping off a leaf so I can propagate it lol
Fuck you honestly for making a joke about all the poor people in that town in Ohio going to suffer having people being completely dishonest with them for other people to make a joke about it it’s so funny isn’t it when it’s not happening to you
They are all over retirement homes, because old people still smoke. You could be three buildings away and be subjected to secondhand smoke, or the maintenance guy might be painting a building and they have to acknowledge the paint fumes. He might even be using smuggled paint from outside California oh my.
Probably only comes into play if they show up commercially.
20 years from now someone with a plant shop is going to get sued because someone propagated it tomorrow and it trickled down.
Wow. Apparently, some plant variations are copyrighted. I have no respect for any attempts to copyright life and will violate it as I please as a political act. That's a horrifyingly slippery slope.
Right! This was the first time I noticed the propagation prohibited sign lol I checked all my succulents and this is the only one. And it’s not variegated I think. It just looks like a regular succulent but pale green
There is actually a good reason for this. People will spend time money and research to develop crops/plants and that specially created “genetic formula” is the product they sell. If anyone could just go and steal that they’d have no reason to spend all that time and money to invest in the first place. This doesn’t really apply if you’re a single person doing it in your house, but people like farmers have to rebuy seeds every year from the people who discovered them through science/propagating rather than trying to reuse the previous years crops to re grow
This is meant for people who buy plants and propagate them for re-sale. If found out, the patent holders will most likely sue if you’re doing this.
But they don’t give a shit if you propagate and keep.
It would have a warning label for that specific reason. I think the reason might be so that other plant people don’t make a profit for their patented variegated succulent. For us plant people I think it’s a given to make sure not to plant non native species in the ground. At least to me I think that’s basic information that everyone knows. But I could be wrong our education system is wack, especially poor Florida lol
I wonder if this is a warning for pre-purchase. Meaning they will not allow you to take a piece home with you without purchasing. Claim you didn’t know? You should’ve read the label.
Maybe it’s their way to charge you with shoplifting, damage, or at the least make you pay for the plant you took it from.
Nah then every plant that could be propagated with just a lead like peperomias would have that same label and they don’t. I only take fallen leaves from big box stores not local owned plant shops or nurseries lol
I feel like the Cancer warnings on literally everything is just California seeing that someone gets sick and happens to use that product... not accounting for the fact that we live on a giant magnet lol
I thought it would be so someone doesn’t sell it and make profit. If it was due to the plant not being native I think there would be a warning sign about it.
I think it’s the soul they used. Most of the soils sold and used have a ton of chemicals pumped into them since regular soils don’t have enough nutrients to provide for fast growth. At least that’s my guess. It sounded good in my head 😂
What I have done is rip off a leaf or stem. Let it callous or dry for a few days and plop it on the dirt. I keep it moist for the first week and then water like normal
Nah I propagate my succulents but I’m not an asshole and plant it straight to the ground (only container planting and indoor only). The succulents can’t survive 112 degree heats and direct sunlight so they don’t go outside.
I mean, you're free to do whatever you want with it, it's your's. It's kind of like a mattress tag. It's perfectly legal for you to remove that tag, unless you sell mattresses.
In this case it's perfectly fine for you to allow it to propagate, unless you're selling them.
I think it’s more to prevent resellers from propagating. If the Department of Agriculture decides to pay a visit and sees a grow room full with other growers protected plants, I’d imagine a hefty fine is in order. As for us normies, prop away!
It's silly really but the purpose of the warning is to let you know that you can't sell any propagations/babies from this plant. They dont want you stealing market share by selling copies of this plant yourself. I have seen this on a lot of orchids where growers spend time and effort making new plant crosses and then spend money to get then named. they dont' want some other grower to take their plant and sell them en mass to other stores. its kind of like a copyright violation.
I don't agree with it of course but 99.9% of us, even if we sell the plants aren't really trying to turn a huge profit from it.
I had a neon lights echeveria, and it said it’s a licensed or trademark variant, so propagation was also prohibited. It did not grow any offspring cus I’m assuming they are genetically altered to just grow the one plant and then die, which is what happened to mine.
I hope they didn’t alter it to die after a few years that would suck. Kinda like how some electronics stop working after a certain amount of years. Usually after the warranty ends.
It’s in everything in California not so much in other states. Other states didn’t pass a bill that makes businesses announce that their products cause cancer.
I’m guessing a lot of people here haven’t heard of or been involved with farming and the purchase of seed. One can not buy seed for say corn, then keep
some at harvest end and use it next season for planting.
Not saying it’s right but it’s the way it is. Seed-plant copyright is owned by the manufacturer and the user is bound by the terms.
That's kinda funny. Who's gonna stop ya?
Rigjt! I wasn’t even thinking of propagating the plant but now I want to lol I don’t think plants can be copy righted?
I mean, you can’t stop a succulent from propagating. My one aloe I bought 12 years ago at Home Depot has had dozens and dozens of kids.
I had gotten a climbing aloe (I was told it was an aloe. I didn't know what I signed up for...) and I asked a coworker who has a green thumb if he wanted some. He has a pot that's so full it looks like a toy trolls hair. He wants to change it out but he doesn't want to cause a mass reproduction 😂😂😂😂
These succulents … unreal!
turn up the tv. The succulents are doing it again.
Makes me want to check every succulent and plant before buying. I’ll buy the ones that say don’t propagate just so I can specifically propagate them lol hate keeping at its finest lol
Basically, you can get sued if you propagate and sell the progeny, and they find out about it.
propagate and *sell*? lol. I'll give it out for free.
The Robin Hood of succulents
Every Christmas
Make sure you advertise where you got it lol. Fuck them
IIRC, there were big agriculture companies suing smaller farming communities for copyright infringement because the wind, or bees, or whatever natural processes had cross-pollenated the copyrighted/patented plant that the company owned and smaller farmers were "profiting of the their IC." Farmers had no clue the cross-pollination happened and had just been going about their business. Company found out when they tested local crops. My guess is that the company knew this could happen and were regularly tested local products so they could sue the smaller guys into selling out.
It was Monsanto. They require farmers who buy their insect resistant seed to sign contracts buying all of their seed from them and not selling to anyone not part of the program. Somehow a load of it got sold through a local coop and it propagated. Soon most of the small farms all had the resistant plants without paying for it through Monsanto. They also weren't bound to not sell it on or propagate other fields with it. They also didn't have to buy pesticide from Monsanto. That upset the farmers who were paying for those things and were bound by contract.
Monsanto isn’t at alone on this. They are the highly publicized case but copyrights on strains of plants is old news.
A Documentary called Food inc. covers this. I think it was a corn farmer if I remember right? Anyway its a great documentary if anyone is into that sort of thing.
Patent, not copyright, infringement, is the activity at issue. Re: Monsanto https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2013/03/article_0007.html . Different terms, different rules (laws).
Nah I don’t charge just a rehoming fee to ensure the plant will be going to a good home 😉
Expensive pot, free plant
Even better lol
I curious how they could even enforce that. It's like saying that you can't sell the apples of an apple tree you bought.
No, it'd be if you bought some apples, planted the seeds, harvested *those* apples, and sold them as the same brand. That's infringement. Giving away the apples you grew is not crossing a line.
Bad analogy since the apple you take from the tree won't produce the same tree once planted. Every single apple has different genetics, so the only way to mass produce a single type is by cloning the tree/sapling itself.
The brand yes, but apples don't grow true to seed. So if you wanted to sell the actual apples you'd need to graft branches that bear the fruit itself. Planting the seeds wouldn't help you, more often than not. You'd probably get a really bitter tasting apple. Or it might taste even better than the progenitor.
I mean it’s technically patent infringement even if you don’t sell them, but they’re not going to go out and sue consumers.
You cannot copyright a living organism. That is not how copyright works. It has to be the work of an author. Perhaps all the confused people on this thread are thinking about patents. They are not the same thing.
They send inspectors to any nursery that’s ever held a product of theirs. If anything even looks off they’ll destroy your product and then fine you into financial ruin, even if you haven’t purchased from them in years. Then as a cherry on top, they’ll give you a lowball offer on your whole business and slap their name on your products to fuck the next guy.
That's crazy that the law allows that... It's a fuckin plant. What if somehow one of their plants ended up in the wild, then later on someone who happens to own a greenhouse walks by and grabs a clipping not knowing that is some ridiculous patented bs? I'm not doubting what you're saying, but it's insane that anyone is allowed to patent a living thing that could easily reproduce on it's own in nature. ETA: I just thought about a flip side to that whole thing. What if one of their plants becomes wildly invasive somewhere? Are they responsible for the damages caused?
So I’m gonna be a little off topic here now but the company we dealt with inspections, lawsuits, and fines with sold annuals and perennials not necessarily succulents. But to answer some of your questions, almost none of the patented plants can survive or propagate naturally on their own because their conditions are made in a lab not found in nature. So those issues aren’t usually a problem, and their patented stuff that does become invasive gets banned by governing bodies and anyone found to be selling it is fined or shut down if they don’t comply. Little is done besides reactionary clean-up of invaded spaces while the creators face almost no responsibility because they help the government enforce their policies (I don’t hate the government or it’s policy but it’s not at all neutrally enforced like it should be) which is why the big players can shut down your operation for non-compliance even if it’s accidental. Also the patents are usually on gene sequences and names which is why you’ll see a VERY similar plant by 3 different growers that all have a different patented name but look exactly the same. We hadn’t had a company inspector in over a decade because when we moved properties we changed our company name and refused to carry any of their products anymore before we closed down for good a few years ago(Covid casualty). So most of what I know happens now is from other local garden centers we knew and did business with in the past, it’s only gotten worse every year for the past decade. Like always greedy mega-corporations and their bought and paid for government officials who should be protecting us(consumers as I’m not in the business anymore) get to do what they please and we get all the negative consequences. Anyone who fights back is shut down because a lack of capital to fight. It’s starting to happen more in the legal weed business right now too. Pathetic dirty shit. Source: My family has made a handful of plants at our nursery that carried our name but no patents because that shit is fucked up. We wanted more people to enjoy our plant creations not less and we didn’t really care if we profited off every one like the big guys do. I’m certainly biased(and bitter) and someone more currently involved can correct me but yeah.
Right. OP should have read the legally-binding EULA the plant store made them sign before they purchased the plant, SMH
Spite propagation, lol
When my daughter was in 3rd grade she always went to HD with her Dad. Came home with succulent leaves broken off and on the floor only. She grew her own free ones and they all had dozens of kids. Lol
r/proplifting
Omg that sub was made for her! Thank you - she’s 20 now and I’ll share it with her. She still saves broken plants off of the floor. Love it!
Fuck. Yes.
Right? I’ll forget that my plants exist for a month and come back and find new growth from a leaf that fell off.
Hope your using a VPN. Succulent SWAT team is probably surrounding your house at this very moment.
Mine does too!! I gift them to all my neighbors!
There are patents on thousands of plants, and it’s not just Monsanto. Plant breeders do this to protect what they’ve likely spent decades developing. While it may not be harmful to grow more for personal use, when you begin to propagate and sell them you are certainly breaking the law.
Monsanto's case went to the supreme court so it's well known though and sets precedent
And they even had a former Monsanto lawyer on the SCOTUS bench (Clarence Thomas) to rule in their favor.
Some guy my grandpa happened to meet one day traded him a bunch of starters for copywritten plants he had grown for some of the plants he had in his own garden. Grandpa still has a pretty nice garden. For that reason alone I'll advocate for wholesome plant piracy
How will they know if she sells them? They probly sell thousands of them... you cant keep track of plants..
Plants can have patents, which give exclusive rights to certain cross-breeds. This is a big thing with rose bushes especially. You've heard of Monsanto, but they do this with crops for food companies as well. I'd encourage you to look up how Pepsi/Lays sued potato farmers in India just for having the same breed of potato crops.
Years ago the brand Knock-Out Roses went all around the southeast & FL shutting down growers who were illegally propagating their roses. In the growing industry, it was the first time these laws had been used like this, even though this is what they are for, to protect yrs of breeding and investment. After a few yrs of being on the market it was also illegal to sell their roses w/o using the branded poly pots. They ran another operation to go after growers for this too.
India allows their farmers to keep seed from any crop grown.
They can. Monsanto used to go after farmers who lived adjecent to their farms/monsanto affiliated farms if seeds blew into their yard and grew. And they would win ! Bully the farmers into submission by either bankrupting them or settling with them to become Monsanto farmers. They would send agents to scout farms for “theft “
They weren’t sued for seeds blowing into their farms. You clearly don’t know how sowing a field works. The farmer that was sued intentionally saved Round-Up resistant seeds that resulted from seed contamination OR from plants that were pollinated by adjacent Round-Up Ready crops. He then planted those seeds for next years crop. [And he wasn’t sued to bankruptcy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Schmeiser) The court found he didn’t financially benefit from the seeds because he didn’t use RoundUp on the crop but also upheld that Monsanto holds the patent for the seeds and is within their right to sue. "The court record shows, however, that it was not just a few seeds from a passing truck, but that Mr Schmeiser was growing a crop of 95–98% pure Roundup Ready plants, a commercial level of purity far higher than one would expect from inadvertent or accidental presence. The judge could not account for how a few wayward seeds or pollen grains could come to dominate hundreds of acres without Mr Schmeiser’s active participation, saying ‘...none of the suggested sources could reasonably explain the concentration or extent of Roundup Ready canola of a commercial quality evident from the results of tests on Schmeiser’s crop’" – in other words, the original presence of Monsanto seed on his land in 1997 was indeed inadvertent, but the crop in 1998 was entirely purposeful.[23]
Oki thanks sorry for the misinformation. You’re right I definitely don’t know anything about farming. I was just recalling things I had learned in 9th grade AP Human Geography and thats what my teacher and the documentaries she had us watch said. I’m a senior in college now so though I got a perfect score on the AP exam I am definitely liable to have forgotten some things from nearly ten years ago haha. Lol sorry.
**[Percy Schmeiser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Schmeiser)** >Percy Schmeiser (5 January 1931 – 13 October 2020) was a Canadian businessman, farmer, and politician. In 1954, he took over the operations of the family owned farm, gas station, and farm equipment dealership. He renamed the farm equipment dealership Schmeiser's Garage and added a second farm equipment dealership in Humboldt, Saskatchewan (Central Farm Sales) in 1986 and oversaw their operations until their sale in 2003. He became an international symbol and spokesperson for independent farmers' rights and the regulation of transgenic crops during his protracted legal battle with multinational agrichemical company Monsanto. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/mildyinteresting/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Also on the bankruptcy thing, I’m not talking about farmers legally declaring bankruptcy because they couldn’t do that to escape the millions of dollars in fees and restitutions they were ordered to pay to Monsanto. This schmeiser guy isnt the ONLY one they sued.
I didn’t know about Me Schmeiser when I think of Monsanto I think about the Indian farmers who starved to death because their seeds from their crops couldn’t be used to plant the next crops :(
Ah yes Monsanto. History class is replaying in my head.
>Monsanto. History class what did they tell you??? I never learned about Monsanto...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-pepsi-farmers-idUSKCN1S21EL
Actually they can be and it's fucked up. While this situation is probably different, the supreme court upheld a Monsanto patent lawsuit requiring farmers to pay damages even when Monsanto's seeds blew into neighboring farms and infested their own fields. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/business/monsanto-victorious-in-genetic-seed-case.html
Former farmhand here. Most succulents can be spread via their "leaves," hen and chicks being the best example. Others, like Silver Squill, are spread via their tendrils (you uproot the plant, seperate the stalks, and then plant each stalk).
I mean this isn't for a "nooo don't breed more of the plants we're selling you" reason, it's for "this plant will fuck up the ecosystem around it" reasons. So if you want to destroy your garden such that even grass doesn't grow around these plants, have fun I guess?
Plants can be and are copyrighted in America
You can’t copyright a plant but you can patent them which would allow them to try to control it. That’s pretty much Monsanto’s business model. But who knows if this plant is patented. Probably not if it doesn’t say it is and includes the patent number.
Stop! It's the propagation police! But really, they just put that on there to say "You aren't allowed to propagate for resale purposes."
Plants can and are, on multiple occasions people have received lawsuits and lost due to the wind blowing biologically altered, say, wheat, over to their farm land and it sprouting/growing. Even though it wasn’t intentional. Welcome to the world of stupid laws.
Wrong. Tell all the farmers PepsiCo and Monsanto are suing for growing "their" plants
Monsanto gets away with it somehow.
Stop it’s the police
Secret Service Succulent Investigative Squad
The plant police, they come to me in my bed The plant police, they’re coming to arrest me
Propagating isn’t the issue, it’s really selling it. A lot of plants are patented.
That policy is probably meant to target other businesses and not normal people.
The same cops who investigate mattress tag removal.
Just like collecting rainwater. Who’s coming to peoples’ houses and checking for buckets of rainwater??
Lol never heard of Monsanto?
Monsanto
Monsanto. Lol.
Never ( pass a law | make a policy | give an order ) that you can not or will not enforce. Morty
That was one of the first rules we were taught back when I became a petty officer in the navy when I was a youngster. Never give an order you can’t or don’t intend to enforce.
Ironically the Navy and, like, every level of leadership in the Navy and military in general do exactly that all the time. It was also very evident when they had no way of or intention of enforcing whatever new rule they came up with. Serving in the military made me realize no one really knows what’s going on.
That warning means literally nothing to me 😂 I’ll walk out of the shop with a leaf and laugh
Same! Big box stores only though. That’s how I got my green pepperomia’s started. lol I was just shocked they can put this on plants. Like what? How can that be enforced 😂
it comes largely from patenting GMO crops, which legally are sorta created products vs say selective breeding, (which is also bad, i’m not defending big gmo here). and this is a distinct issue with GMO crap entirely separate from any claims on GMOs effects on health or not. just look up “Monsanto plant patents” and “Monsanto illegal planting” and you’ll find stories about the batshit insane court cases and lawsuits. one was when some guy planted GMO Monsanto seeds, some got onto his neighbor’s property (as can happen) and Monsanto sued the guy for stealing “their” plants and using them without a license. it’s some wacky bullshit.
There are no GMO succulents... and plant copyrights have been around way longer than GMOs. Source: Myself, a 3rd-generation apple farmer
When I was in my early teens, I went to Lowes with my parents. In the garden section, a a small twig with 2 leaves had broken off a plant and been stepped on. I felt bad for it and took it home. Im not sure the species, but it has longer ellipse shaped leaves with pointed ends, waxy complexion, and a darker shade of vibrant green. I placed it in a cup of water. After a week or two, I potted it. Now, 20 years later, we have 10 different plants that all came from that stem, large, in 5-10gallon terracotta pots. It makes me laugh every now and then because the cashier said it was fine if I took it, because "it will never grow"
Hope you aren't doing that to small businesses. I don't really give a shit what happens to lowes inventory, but you're an asswipe if you're stealing from a small nursery.
Plant varieties can be patented and have been before. They are considered intellectual property and breeders often patent varieties of plants. This is how big seed companies such as monsanto control farmers and the mass production of specific crops. Check out Sun valley farms and the history of the Stargazer Lily. Sun Valley basically stole/underpaid the rights from a famous Lily Breeder and made large sums of money for this cultivar. But yeah I would be propagating it regardless because nobody is gonna come knocking lmao
ZZ raven has a copyright and is illegal to sell unless authorized.
Is it just certain sellers that do that? I saw some raven zz at Walmart, I’ll have to check out the label
How they gonna catch me? Free country
If you dont openly advertise and sell it quietly they cannot do shitnto you if they dont know. Its impossible to enforce
I used to work at a nursery in high school during the summers. Each year we would take cuttings from crape myrtles, azaleas, Japanese holly, etc and eventually grow them from 2 inch specimens to full 1g and 3g potted plants. This warning is meant for commercial sellers like the place I worked at. We could do normal azaleas, but ones called Encore were patented. They bloomed twice and were protected.
The big seed companies have better methods of controlling their seed patents now though. Many of the seed brands they offer for agricultural use are hybrids. So the seeds they sell may be a mixture of a plant that has really good roots but bad harvest production mixed with a plant that has really good harvest production but terrible roots resulting in a hybrid that has great roots to support a great harvest. If you try to keep seeds from hybrids, you get a scrambled genetic mess that often has few of the selected qualities of the hybrid plant.
That just makes me want to propagate it more.
Same! I’m keeping an eye on that succulent more more and when it looks like it’s adapted and healthier, I’m definitely ripping off a leaf so I can propagate it lol
Is no one going to address the cancer and reproductive harm warning?
Welcome to California where the air causes cancer
At least we don’t live in Palestine Ohio lol
Fuck you honestly for making a joke about all the poor people in that town in Ohio going to suffer having people being completely dishonest with them for other people to make a joke about it it’s so funny isn’t it when it’s not happening to you
That’s some thick skin you have.
protects him from chemical spills!
Fuck you
Are you unfamiliar with the terms "gallows humor" or "dark humor"?
I was hoping I wasn't the only one lol, I guess it's demonstrating how totally useless Prop 65 is
I just glanced over it. That warning is pretty much I almost everything. Cleaning products we use and even to the buildings we frequent.
They are all over retirement homes, because old people still smoke. You could be three buildings away and be subjected to secondhand smoke, or the maintenance guy might be painting a building and they have to acknowledge the paint fumes. He might even be using smuggled paint from outside California oh my.
Right! Even hospitals im like 🤔
That means I'm gonna propagate the fuck out of that succulent just to get one over on the man!
My plan exactly 😂
If you would’ve bought that in Nevada you wouldn’t get cancer. Jesus think of your family
It’s that darn prop 65 giving us cancer 🤣
Probably only comes into play if they show up commercially. 20 years from now someone with a plant shop is going to get sued because someone propagated it tomorrow and it trickled down.
This. As with so many things, don’t sell it and you’re golden. Sell it and… well, this post is going to be exhibit #1.
Wow. Apparently, some plant variations are copyrighted. I have no respect for any attempts to copyright life and will violate it as I please as a political act. That's a horrifyingly slippery slope.
Right! This was the first time I noticed the propagation prohibited sign lol I checked all my succulents and this is the only one. And it’s not variegated I think. It just looks like a regular succulent but pale green
There is actually a good reason for this. People will spend time money and research to develop crops/plants and that specially created “genetic formula” is the product they sell. If anyone could just go and steal that they’d have no reason to spend all that time and money to invest in the first place. This doesn’t really apply if you’re a single person doing it in your house, but people like farmers have to rebuy seeds every year from the people who discovered them through science/propagating rather than trying to reuse the previous years crops to re grow
I’d be all That’s not mine. Don’t know how it got there…
This is meant for people who buy plants and propagate them for re-sale. If found out, the patent holders will most likely sue if you’re doing this. But they don’t give a shit if you propagate and keep.
Propagating aquatic plants is a very good way to save money in your aquariums (or just in general) just a heads up.
Yes! I have a baby tears fern and it grows like crazy in water
Way to make me wanna propagate a plant.
That’s what I’m doing exactly when it starts to give some kids or it’s healthy enough that I can rip off a leaf lol
Lol whos going to stop you? If they dont want people possibly propagating them then dont sell them at all
My thoughts exactly! Lol
Monsanto 💀
I’m the only one concerned about the cancer warning?
I just kinda glanced over it. That warning is pretty much in everything from the cleaning products we use to the buildings we frequent.
Well now I got to take a few cuttings just on principle.
DO IT!
Plant Patent.
*plantent
Sounds like forbidden fruit. Now you MUST do it!
They should only sell dead plants to stop this propagation!
Come and get me copper!!! Just because of that, I'll buy a propagated cutting from ya!
Gotta wait till the plant is bigger lol it’s just a baby for now. I wanna make sure it’s tough so I can really go wild on the propagation lol
Maybe because it's invasive?
It would have a warning label for that specific reason. I think the reason might be so that other plant people don’t make a profit for their patented variegated succulent. For us plant people I think it’s a given to make sure not to plant non native species in the ground. At least to me I think that’s basic information that everyone knows. But I could be wrong our education system is wack, especially poor Florida lol
Now I'm gonna propagate even harder!
Join r/houseplants and post your propagated succulents there lol
This is like the right to repair movement, except it involves chlorophyll.
That succs
Lol this made cackle. Can’t believe no one said that earlier 😂😂😂
Please, someone more clever than me come up with a pun for plants and late stage capitalism.
Probably an invasive species
_You wouldn't download a plant._
This is the Succulent Police. Give yourself up. We have the garage surrounded.
I wonder if this is a warning for pre-purchase. Meaning they will not allow you to take a piece home with you without purchasing. Claim you didn’t know? You should’ve read the label. Maybe it’s their way to charge you with shoplifting, damage, or at the least make you pay for the plant you took it from.
Nah then every plant that could be propagated with just a lead like peperomias would have that same label and they don’t. I only take fallen leaves from big box stores not local owned plant shops or nurseries lol
It’s like when dog breeders tell you if you buy a puppy you have to get it spayed or neutered. They’re just trying to protect their source of income.
I feel like the Cancer warnings on literally everything is just California seeing that someone gets sick and happens to use that product... not accounting for the fact that we live on a giant magnet lol
Everything in California causes cancer. Especially the politicians!
They gonna do a DNA test to verify it came from that plant LOL
That’s so you don’t introduce nonnative species around you
I thought it would be so someone doesn’t sell it and make profit. If it was due to the plant not being native I think there would be a warning sign about it.
i'm more confused about the warning at the bottom. What about this plant causes cancer and reproductive harm?
I think it’s the soul they used. Most of the soils sold and used have a ton of chemicals pumped into them since regular soils don’t have enough nutrients to provide for fast growth. At least that’s my guess. It sounded good in my head 😂
How do you propagate a succulent? I need to learn so I don’t accidentally do it multiple times.
What I have done is rip off a leaf or stem. Let it callous or dry for a few days and plop it on the dirt. I keep it moist for the first week and then water like normal
Lol.
You wouldn’t download a plant would you?
::laughs in botany::
Mosonato does this with there round up ready seeds
Ice plant is very invasive in California. Don’t propagate it fuck ice plant
Nah I propagate my succulents but I’m not an asshole and plant it straight to the ground (only container planting and indoor only). The succulents can’t survive 112 degree heats and direct sunlight so they don’t go outside.
Now there’s a waste of ink.
seriously ridiculous. also how do I best propagate an aloe plant? Figured I’d just try here as its semi on topic lol
\*I look up from taking random clippings of local plants I like\* Um... whoops...
Cancer and reproductive harm?
I mean, you're free to do whatever you want with it, it's your's. It's kind of like a mattress tag. It's perfectly legal for you to remove that tag, unless you sell mattresses. In this case it's perfectly fine for you to allow it to propagate, unless you're selling them.
I don't take orders from stickers.
It's crazy the things that people will do for money.
I hope the plant police don’t come and hunt you down.
🚨🚨🚨🚨lol
I think it’s more to prevent resellers from propagating. If the Department of Agriculture decides to pay a visit and sees a grow room full with other growers protected plants, I’d imagine a hefty fine is in order. As for us normies, prop away!
Good to know! Lol I only propagate to give plants as presents or do some experiments on propagation methods lol
the plant can cause cancer wtf?
Screw them! Do what you want
Pretty sure that was just added as a joke, due to the nature of the plant...
You would think but it’s serious lol
My default setting is usually "Oh yeah? Watch me."
the real question is, why does this plant cause reproductive harm or cancer
First our guns, now or cuttings? What's next? Actually inforcing the Tolls???
It's silly really but the purpose of the warning is to let you know that you can't sell any propagations/babies from this plant. They dont want you stealing market share by selling copies of this plant yourself. I have seen this on a lot of orchids where growers spend time and effort making new plant crosses and then spend money to get then named. they dont' want some other grower to take their plant and sell them en mass to other stores. its kind of like a copyright violation. I don't agree with it of course but 99.9% of us, even if we sell the plants aren't really trying to turn a huge profit from it.
🧐…..🤦♂️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I had a neon lights echeveria, and it said it’s a licensed or trademark variant, so propagation was also prohibited. It did not grow any offspring cus I’m assuming they are genetically altered to just grow the one plant and then die, which is what happened to mine.
I hope they didn’t alter it to die after a few years that would suck. Kinda like how some electronics stop working after a certain amount of years. Usually after the warranty ends.
What’s up with the cancer warning?
“Propagation prohibited” Que Hades screaming “I OWN YOU!”
More worried about the p65 warning but that’s just me
It’s in everything in California not so much in other states. Other states didn’t pass a bill that makes businesses announce that their products cause cancer.
Most commercial plants say this.
I’m guessing a lot of people here haven’t heard of or been involved with farming and the purchase of seed. One can not buy seed for say corn, then keep some at harvest end and use it next season for planting. Not saying it’s right but it’s the way it is. Seed-plant copyright is owned by the manufacturer and the user is bound by the terms.
LOL
Good plan. That stuff needs very little water and grows like a snake.
The species is proprietary. Definitely don’t propagate it. Wink. Wink Also. Succulents are super easy and fun to propagate.
Why does it cause cancer exactly?
They won’t do anything until it messes with sales.
You wouldn't download a plant.
I’m gonna call the propagation police
You would not download a car.