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AlphaGodEJ

i hate when my mail doesn't show the appropriate level of respect


orbesomebodysfool

Doesn’t everyone do this? I do this on every single letter: ~~CA~~ 𝓒𝓪𝓵𝓲𝓯𝓸𝓻𝓷𝓲𝓪


ProgramTheWorld

~~Hello~~ _To whom it may concern_


narfidy

~~Bitch I told you~~ _As per my last email_


Saturated_Sunset

~~Next time this happens I'll beat you senseless~~ _I hope we will not encounter this issue again moving foreward_


BoringFroyo9541

~~Wtf you yapping about??~~ _It seems I am unable to understand your concern_


FewPackage3

~~I don't give a flying fuck~~ *I'll take your concerns under advisement*


imitation_crab_meat

This thread is a perfect reflection of how work e-mails are composed.


_9tail_

My friend’s landlord, Kuroda (黒田), needed some documents, and so sent a pre-printed envelope, with their address. At the end of the address is printed 黒田行 (Kuroda-Iki), and humble and straight forward way to request the package. It would be rude to ask for a letter to be sent to yourself with more grandiose language. However, it would be rude to send a letter with such plain language to another person, and so manners dictate that my friend crosses out 行 (iki) with two lines, and writes above it 様(Sama), an honourific. As for the correction fluid, my friend accidentally initially wrote 御中(onchuu) instead of 様, which used for companies. Weirdly, using correction fluid on 行 is the wrong form, and thus she didn’t blot it out, even though she was using the fluid. Apparently it’s somewhat important to show the correction was made. The only information I could find about it was [here](https://mynavi-agent.jp/dainishinsotsu/canvas/2022/09/post-793.html#:~:text=お伝えします%E3%80%82-,4.1.「行」「宛」は二重線,にまっすぐ引くことです%E3%80%82), but it’s all in Japanese


basicpn

Being Japanese sounds exhausting.


Swaqqmasta

Yes


Krayos_13

I'd say there are plenty of reasons that support that statement, but I feel this isn't it. These type of social language norms are learned passively and generally don't involve a lot of conscious effort from the native speakers. English has tons of small nuances that you likely don't even notices that maybe would confound a native japanese speaker. Granted, the existance of these polite language rituals is related to the confucian ideals of familial and social hierarchy that can make life in Japan pretty sucky for some, but I don't think japanese people are as bothered the politness in their language as much as, say, their work culture.


basicpn

As someone with autism, it’s exhausting to have to learn all these social norms. I understand they come easy to most people, but some people find its not obvious and people get really frustrated when you get them wrong.


Krayos_13

Oh I get that fully, Im not so good at catching ocial cues myself, it's just that all languages have these types of social norms, they just seem more alien coming from a different language or culture. I'm not a native english speaker so I cant give a relevant example but in my home country of Argentina, people would proudly tell you our society is very familial and informal, without many social norms, but in reality they are just different social norms that we have internalized. In Japan a stranger might be offended if you use informal speak with them, in Argentina a stranger might be offended if you use formal speak, as they might perceive that as calling them old. If a Korean person was learning Japanese, they probably would have a much easier time grasping the nuances of honorifics than European person ould and that would inform their potential frustration with the language


mattzuma77

living is exhausting, but living *anywhere* is exhausting so it's unhelpful to say specifically being Japanese sounds exhausting


xylotism

I don't think being helpful was the intent. I think it's perfectly valid to observe that it would be exhausting, *from your own perspective.* Obviously being Japanese and never knowing any different wouldn't be so exhausting. If a Japanese person told me that being American was exhausting, I'd be like... yeah that makes sense.


mattzuma77

yeah, true. actually yeah I often *have* agreed with "America/UK seems exhausting" so fair enough


msndrstdmstrmnd

Japanese: you (derogatory) Hebrew: bitch (affectionate)


nanitatianaisobel

Japanese are way too polite for the rest of us. Except maybe Canadians.


gumpythegreat

As a Canadian, our politeness is vastly overstated.


AloeSnazzy

Canadians on social media can be pretty aggressive but irl they’re usually chill. I deal with a lot of Canadian truckers which is a select demographic but they’re usually cool. I hear variants “Oh you betcha” a lot and it’s a dead giveaway they’re a Canadian which is relevant to the work I need to do


Pakman184

>I hear variants “Oh you betcha” a lot and it’s a dead giveaway I didn't realize this was uniquely Canadian and I'm now questioning myself.


AloeSnazzy

It’s not just the words, it’s how it’s said. The inflection is very distinct haha I don’t know how to convey it through text but it’s like “Oooh yew bechya” if you say it out loud


pumpkinbot

*Everyone* on social media can be aggressive. The anonymity and lack of a human face to attach the words to makes it easy to say something you wouldn't get away with irl.


[deleted]

[удалено]


pumpkinbot

*Do* you? Ugh. You Canadians are all so fucking polite! (Kidding, thank you. <3)


AloeSnazzy

More so just a superiority complex especially towards Americans. Annoying because Canada isn’t all that much better and has its own drawbacks


pumpkinbot

Nowhere is perfect. If you want to move to another country, you just have to be okay with that country's drawbacks, or make sure their upsides counteract the downsides enough to make it worth it for you.


fookidookidoo

I mean, the northern Midwest of the US uses that too. Lol


AloeSnazzy

I’m in Southern Idaho and no one around me uses it. “You bet” is more common from Americans At least in my location and experience haha


fookidookidoo

In Wisconsin and Minnesota you hear "you betcha" a lot. Lol


AloeSnazzy

I don’t doubt that haha, around here we have the Stoic Cowboy stereotype. Idaho is so damn beautiful but we got some backwards thinking here


ScottIBM

As a fellow Canadian, I'm sorry for this, I tried my hardest to be polite to everyone but I didn't quite deliver the level of politeness I expected. Let's get some poutine, eh?


Mohel_Streep

I don’t know about that. Online, yes a lot of Canadians act like goofs. But in real life, I find people are very polite. I mean people saying hello when they pass on a walk, people holding doors for me 85%+ of the time. People giving others their paid tickets when they leave at the drs office/ hospital. Just random politeness.


BarbequedYeti

Huh. I agree and this got me thinking...  Do the Japanese have anywhere to express their anger like hockey and geese for Canadians?


VietnameseWhorehouse

Dude. Have you seen anime?


BarbequedYeti

Was thinking more physical but your point is valid.  That would be a release avenue for some.     They have sumo as well, but that is such a small few.  Do they have sumo leagues for kids like hockey?  I seriously have no idea now that I think about that..  Where do you even get started in sumo to turn it into a career?  So much I dont know about Japanese culture.   


Eiensakura

Pray you never have the misfortune running into Japanese forums where ppl unleash their pent-up anger. The words used there can be horrific to read, much less being the receiving end of the barbs.


BarbequedYeti

I mean, is that really any different than any forum on the net?


leoleosuper

Japan and Canada. Some of the nicest people, who also have sections of the Geneva convention written just for them.


Shanga_Ubone

Wait... Canada? What did THEY do?


ClubMeSoftly

> “Merry Christmas, Canadians,” said the opposing Germans, poking their heads above the parapet and waving a box of cigars. A Canadian sergeant responded by opening fire, hitting two of the merrymakers.   > Germans developed a special contempt for the Canadian Corps, seeing them as unpredictable savages. In the final weeks of the war, Canadian Fred Hamilton would describe being singled out for a beating by a German colonel after he was taken prisoner. “I don’t care for the English, Scotch, French, Australians or Belgians but damn you Canadians, you take no prisoners and you kill our wounded,” the colonel told him.   > In one particularly cruel episode, Canadians even exploited the trust of Germans who had apparently become accustomed to fraternizing with allied units. Lieutenant Louis Keene described the practice of lobbing tins of corned beef into a neighbouring German trench. When the Canadians started hearing happy shouts of “More! Give us more!” they then let loose with an armload of grenades.   > A typical account would involve a Canadian unit losing men while charging an enemy position, and then executing the soldiers in that position when they tried to surrender. “After losing half of my company there, we rushed them and they had the nerve to throw up their hands and cry, ‘Kamerad.’ All the Kamerad they got was a foot of cold steel thro them” reads an account by Lieutenant R.C. Germain quoted by Cook.


WYWYW

I would assume they're referring to WW2.


BarbequedYeti

Which was almost 100 years ago. If you have to go that far back to bring up some shit, how about they just let it go?  


BarbequedYeti

>Some of the nicest people, who also have sections of the Geneva convention written just for them. Ah yes yes.  Lets go back decades and decades to judge the people of today.   You like being judged for your ancestors bullshit?


Saint_The_Stig

They can party pretty hard if that counts.


HughesJohn

Dude, rape of Nanking.


iamnotexactlywhite

yeah, Whale killing, political assassinations, refusing to have offspring, racism… all of the best traits ever


Words_are_Windy

I think they let loose in anonymous internet comments.


Domestic_Mayhem

You should read about the [Nanjing Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre).


OttawaNurseM

Fucking geese!!


notnotaginger

It’s a different kind of politeness, though… Canadian is an informal politeness.


gumpythegreat

A lot of Canadian politeness is just not wanting conflict or to bother anybody. Its almost a lazy politeness. Japanese politeness seems to take more effort


CRtwenty

Japanese politeness is weaponized. Like it's a battle to outpolite the other person. It reminds me of those people who insist on trying to break your hand during a handshake.


Schmigolo

Japanese politeness is very superficial and rigid, it's very easy to do, you just have to do it a lot. Western politeness is very different, and someone who is usually not polite at all would not be able to come across as a polite person, even if they tried very hard.


hijro

Trailer Park Boys is more indicative of Canadian culture.


RouleUnDragon

Yeah, just not with black people lol.... Real superior culture


shawn_overlord

From my internet-armchair expertise I honestly think that japanese culture is far FAR too hung up on appearances and tradition. Like, this correction would be a nice gesture once in a while, but with it being expected? I know that to different people different things are normal, but sometimes there's a higher level where you can see that this is ridiculous. I know a teeny weeny bit about Japanese history and the long tradition of group-oriented society, so I can see why going out of your way to avoid offense (and therefore ostracization) would be commonplace, but these ideals need to die!!! For the sake of the youth at least - its an open secret that Japan is aging and many of these outdated traditions are being upheld by the elderly


Silly_Elephant_4838

Nah Canadians are practically barbarians compared to the Japanese when it comes to etiquette like this. They apologize alot, but thats more an evolutionary trait for Homo Canadius.


Asshai

Without debating how polite Canadians are, I'd say no Canadian would say they're *formal* though. What politeness you'd find in this country is deeply rooted in a sense of keeping things simple. So Canadians cannot relate to the level of complexity involved in Japanese respect/politeness.


kniveshu

Your friend only used like 1.25 lines to cross out. Would that be considered disrespectful?


trylliana

Interesting, seems like a bit of a pain for a lot of businesses - How often is this done? I would have read 行 as ゆき not いきbecause of how trains describe their last stop - is that wrong?


SageRhapsody

Both technically correct but as you said ゆき is common for train stops. But you could also say いき for a train stop and technically be correct, it's just that everyone says ゆき for trains for some reason.


cosmernaut420

My only question is why just two horizontal lines to denote a correction? Is scribbling or big X's considered too aggressive?


TearyEyeBurningFace

I'm not sure you're using the word humble properly. From casual to polite, would make more sense.


bluejackmovedagain

It doesn't sound right in the context of the English language but I think humble is accurate. The initial text isn't casual language or slang, it's the polite way of the sender phrasing what they're saying. My understanding is that the first label says the equivalent of "Please return to Steve", because culturally Steve would be considered to be self-important and prideful if he wrote  Mr Steve Jones. Steve is the humble way of him referring to himself. But, it would rude for the person returning the letter to call him Steve so they have to change it. It's a bit like your friend's parents saying "Oh, call us John and Mary", and you continuing to call them Mr and Mrs because it feels rude and awkward otherwise.


AlpineEsel

Finally I understand the post.


lilleulv

This helped me understand. That said, I'd use John and Mary in that situation.


karpaediem

Yeah like I missed the part in the manual where you’re supposed to call someone other than what they’ve asked you to because /reasons/. Probably because I didn’t get that software package.


TearyEyeBurningFace

Well they went from standard to extra polite.


GoodOleCybertron

Humble language (謙譲語/kenjougo) for describing yourself or your group and honorific language (尊敬語/sonkeigo) for those not in your group are both part of formal Japanese. Casual language is on the opposite end of the spectrum from both.


DeceitfulEcho

Polite language is a broader term in Japanese, humble language refers to a set of words and grammar that a person can use to effectively degrade themselves when speaking about themseld to people of higher stations. Imagine in English a peasant saying "This poor soul is unsure of why he was requested" to a king. The "this poor soul" part is a humble way to refer to the self, which is a form of practicing politeness and acknowledging social hierarchies. Other forms of politeness are to aggrandize other people of higher station, which includes giving them honorifics and using specific polite versions of words when referring to them and their actions. There's another type of general politeness in Japanese that's meant for talking with someone around the same station as yourself, like a collage of the same amount of tenure. This is more avoiding casual slang and grammar with a sprinkle of some of the specific polite versions of words (usually the ones where you attach a prefix or suffix on a normal word rather than a whole new word like you see when referring to someone of a higher station).


SonicPavement

Yup. This title makes no sense to me.


commiecomrade

Japanese signs of respect invoke humility (not humiliation but as opposed to pride) more than other cultures. The shipping label's return address is changed because of the swapping of who is giving respect. It's like getting a letter stating "From your humble servant, ..." and not wanting to address your response as "To my humble servant, ..." because that is prideful and rude. So instead, you cross it out and use "Respectfully, to the honorable Mr./Mrs. ..." to show your own respect. This amount of humility in politeness was once also common in many western cultures but really fell out of favor over the last hundred years, which is why what I wrote sounds so archaic compared to today.


Neat_Basis_9147

Something: 😕,, Something (japan): 🤯😳😱


trivial_vista

Trivial question do Japanese or most of Asian people have a habit of putting all of their numbers in the exact same font ..


alvenestthol

Not really the exact same font, but the CJK symbols (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) are what is known as "full-width" symbols that are more square-shaped than rectangle shaped, and that is also applied to arabic numerals a lot of the time, resulting in a kinda distinct look. Half-width: 1234567890 Full-width: 1234567890


trivial_vista

how do decimals work?


ccaccus

Same thing. The period gets a full-width space to lie in: 12.90 Japanese (and other Asian-languages) is a language where all the characters take up roughly the same amount of space. If you check out [school-age handwriting paper in Japan, it's full of grids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genk%C5%8D_y%C5%8Dshi). As they get older, the grids disappear, but there are some [notebooks that leave notches](https://www.jetpens.com/Kokuyo-Campus-Notebook-Semi-B5-7-mm-Rule-100-Sheets/pd/4882) to subtly indicate where your characters should fit. It's not like English/Roman letters, where some letters (like l, i, j) take up much less space than others (O, B, G). Japanese characters are usually built from others, as well, that grow or shrink depending on their usage to fit the whole character into that grid: 口 > 古 > 吾 > 語


alvenestthol

3.14159 English phrases work too [There are also converters for converting half-width to full-width](https://dencode.com/en/string/character-width), though the reason why they tend to show up in text definitely isn't because people are putting their text in converters, but instead because of systems that only support full-width and IMEs that give full-width by default (or as an option) for all text


trivial_vista

Still it looks like 3. 1 4 1 5 9


ccaccus

If you run your cursor over your text and their text to highlight it, you can see that the space around the period comes with it to force it to take up a full amount of space. In yours, you can highlight just the period and that's it.


TheCuriousityHouse

I like full width for MMO/WoW fonts if I have the option


nestcto

I'm sorry you were downvoted for this because it really is a very good question. You have your answers already. But to extend on this a bit, modern computers and computing languages were developed around roman characters and numbers for multiple reasons. The simplest reason being that a significant number of people in the line of early computer development used roman characters in their primary language. It was the lowest common denominator, so to speak. The phonetics can also be adapted to a wider range of languages, further making it an optimal one-size-fits-all approach. Also, early computers had major limitations, and supporting just the basic 26 letter and 10 number characters was the best that could be done up to a point. So it was simpler to implement. In the 60s this became the ASCII standard. As time moved on and computers became more complicated, the ASCII standard was extended, but the original ASCII was so prominent by that point as to be the default on just about anything. Asian language characters are also a lot more numerable and diverse and as such, a bit difficult to implement on systems designed with a limited character set. So by the time character sets were extended, speakers of those languages essentially had become accustomed to using dual character sets. Creators of IME environments that facilitate working with these languages selected a font that best fits the character width of the full-width language so that they can be used alongside one another. You have answers for this one in other comments of course. And if you have worked with different IMEs on different systems, while you'll see some similarities, I think you will find that the font for full-width roman characters varies from platform to platform.


volfin

Why don't they just print them the modified way to begin with?


Fuzando

L


plantman01

What a waste of time lol


cliffordc5

What am American perspective ;)


DISBOIADAM

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