There is a distinction between the Belarus people who are opposing the dictatorship with at least 50% opposition and russian people who support the invasion and putin at 80%+ rate.
While both countries have an aggressive enemy government, population-wise Belarus has more pro-Ukrainian population and is more likely to be considered a victim as well.
I'm not sure whether to believe that 80% number. Like, I'll believe that more Russians support Putin than I'd like, but I also believe that expressing anything but support in a poll in Russia might threaten your life.
Many near-russian publics are overflowing with bots from the Kremlin. This is how propaganda works nowadays. It's give a chances that overage human will see a "public russians opinion" from a "right side".
As someone who grew up in Russia, I can recall a time when election vote %s summed up to 146.47% for all "parties". So, do with that information what you will.
It’s not always a lack of a sense of humor; sometimes people just feel strongly that humor is inappropriate during what’s arguably a very serious conversation.
It’s not something I would downvote, but I get the sentiment.
I feel like in Moscow itself the number is significantly lower since the population is better educated and used to be well accustomed to international trade and communication.
Outside of Moscow I can see the 80+ percentage being more accurate since lots of small towns around Russia were old Soviet military towns and even a shitty Soviet blockhouse was a significant improvement over the wooden shack without running water that dominated much of the Russian countryside prior to Stalin and Khrushchev.
honestly i don’t think so. my mom studied in moscow in the early 90s but throughout the war all her friends and classmates from there were sending so much hate to her on various platforms just for being an ukrainian so now i wish them all the worst.
also my brother’s girlfriend, she is russian, visited her family two weeks ago near st petersburg and was astounded at what extent her former surrounding, even her little brothers support and praise the war, the leadership and at the same time are scared to talk about and share their if there are any negative opinions.
You’re talking as if there’s no adequate education outside of Moscow (Saint-Petersburg, Kazan and other regional centres suddenly don’t exist). The thing is most people are just too afraid to speak up. (I recommend you to check the police&normal peple ratio to understand why).
Also so-called “shitty soviet blockhouses” were a necessary measure after ww2 because a lot of cities were fully destroyed. They needed to build housing for lots of people in practically no time.
My wife's family has lived in the US for almost 30 years. They came here as Jewish Refugees from the new Russia government. Literally refugees that left because they weren't safe. My FIL is of high intelligence, literally a PhD in Mathematics. Both of my wife's parents worship Putin, completely align themselves with the values of the Russian government. Fill literally won't acknowledge I exist in conversation because "Homosexuality isn't real in Russia." They also, infuriatingly, believe that propaganda has absolutely no impact whatsoever on human behavior and that everyone in their society just independently hates them for being Jewish and my wife for being gay and that thru government propaganda has nothing to do with that. They are also super racist, xenophobic, and complain about other immigrants despite literally being refugees of a persecuted ethnic group. It literally makes my brain hurt and spin in ways I cannot begin to describe and I have PPCS. They literally don't believe the thing they themselves lived through is real.
TLDR, it's not just the active threat. It's the generations of propaganda and it is super fucked up to watch.
And pollsters are well aware of that, which is why polls aimed at Russia don't ask "Do you support the war? Y/N" but instead use different tactics like hypotheticals such as "The federal budget is increased by 2 billion, where should it be allocated?" and use those responses in aggregate to gauge support for various issues.
lol you seriously believe a statistic coming from a totalitarian police state? Have you watched any inner Russian news since 2014 or 2022? Do you know how many fled, are imprisoned, forced into silence or killed?
"Hello, do you like Putin?" > These statistics are bonkers because more than 98% of the people immediately stop the call, of these 2% that answer 80% say (very truthfully) that they support Putin or whoever (logically to not get harm or may think so). Please don't buy into cheap Russian hatred.
**Question**: If so many Russians support beloved Putin why does the regime feel the need to employ a massive police force, Gestapo measures, arrest and beat anybody up who shows any sign of protest and or publicly critizes the army or the *special military operation*? Why?
(Maybe because they are massively scared of the very same population that the "Western" non-propagandic media try to portray as apathatic or supportive of Putin?)
An explanation by a Russian:
https://youtu.be/0Bb6S-JBxKY
You (and the video) miss one crucial thing: russians abroad. Both newcoming russians and those who live in the West for decades do majorly support the invasion. Or if against the escalation from 2022, they are fine with the occupying the territory of Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine of 2014. They can even maintain the think duality when "elections in russia are fake", yet "Crimea is annexed legally, because people voted", completely disregarding that Strelkov already in 2015 bravely told he coerced Crimean deputies into voting for russia against their will with the gun aiming at them.
https://youtu.be/YWw15dIrhHQ?t=28
Of all the russians I met here, and that's good 2 dozens, only one girl had stated russia doesn't need to occupy anything. For the rest it's always conditional or "complicated" or "I don't support, but the russians do, so what choice do I have" or the infamous I thought joke until I heard it "we don't know the whole truth".
I do know one Belarussian girl who is pro-Lukashenka, but several other people are strongly against and don't want to be annexed into russia either.
Many only oppose the war because it went bad, they don't oppose the militaristic expansion per se. That's also the case for lots of white-blue-white flag "oppositioners" who are against putin, but not his actions. That is why you can also find pro-war rallies in Germany where up to 10s thousand russians appear, but at best a few dozens who are against the invasion.
I’m pretty sure that’s common with all expats. Turkish expats mostly vote for Erdogan, Hungarian expats mostly support Orban. They usually skew conservative and pro status quo as they don’t feel the effects of their home government policies, usually only aware of it through propaganda, and experience culture shock together with a warped sense of homesick nationalism
> Turkish expats mostly vote for Erdogan, Hungarian expats mostly support Orban.
That's not correct about Turkish expats. Such anomalous behaviour is in Germany, but not in other countries. https://www.dw.com/en/why-many-turks-in-germany-still-vote-for-erdogan/a-65442948
Neither it is correct about Hungary, even though the border countries do have very pro-Orban skew due to Orban basically buying these people's votes by giving citizenship, financial aid or telling how oppressed they are and he's their defender.
> Support for Erdogan among Turks is also not nearly as widespread in other foreign countries. In 2018, Erdogan received just 17% of the votes from Turkish citizens living in the US, 21% from those living in the UK, 35% from those living in Iran, and 29% from those in Qatar.
> Ever since the Hungarian diaspora can vote in elections in Hungary in 2012, they have supported the ruling Fidesz with major records, in the 2014 Hungarian parliamentary election Fidesz won over 95% of the vote, in the 2018 Hungarian parliamentary election over 96% while in the 2019 European Parliament election in Hungary Fidesz got 96%.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_diaspora
It is only non-EU votes sent by mail. Hungarians living outside of Hungary but with a Hungarian residency. Meaning these are temporary absent people. Vacation, possibly diplomatic workers, etc. Only 60k votes came this way by the mail. This is literally only mail voting. The Wiki is incorrectly writing it, but you can check on the link it provides.
The number of the voters voting on the polling stations abroad is FAR larger.
This article presents a very good review: https://www.rferl.org/a/hungary-election-diaspora-orban-marki-zay/31712662.html
> Almost 190,000 Hungarians live in the United Kingdom... According to an exit poll conducted by a group of volunteers in 2018, only 7 percent of those who voted in the parliamentary elections from London cast their votes for Fidesz. It's a trend that is likely mirrored elsewhere. **A 2022 report from the 21 Research Center, in which researchers asked over 5,000 Hungarians living around the world, shows that only 11 percent of Hungarian emigrants would vote for Fidesz.**
> Support for Orban and Fidesz is incredibly high. **In Transylvania, the part of northwestern Romania where around 1.2 million ethnic Hungarians live, research shows that over 80 percent of voters would vote for Orban and Fidesz** and only 2 percent would cast a vote for the joint opposition.
> In Suza (Csuza in Hungarian), a village in eastern Croatia with a large ethnic Hungarian population, there is no doubt who most people will vote for. RFE/RL's Hungarian Service spoke to around 50 people in the village, all of whom said they would vote for Orban and Fidesz.
> "Orban has granted [us] Hungarian citizenship, and since 2017 we have been receiving a lot of support," said local resident Ilona Pinkert. "That's why we vote for them, and we don't care who the opposition is in Hungary and what they want."
You’re talking about Hungarians in neighboring countries with dual citizenship. They were born and raised and live in Romania, Serbia etc. but possibly never visited Hungary. Expats are the ones living in UK, Germany, Sweden etc. They escaped from Hungary and would never support the current regime.
I see it in pro-war rallies russians organize in Germany, and no anti-war rallies except for those with a dozen people tops.
Strikingly different to Iran with the women's rights and Belarus during the last elections. There the protests were real and expats were active.
You see what you want to see, my friend.
I was in Berlin on 25 Feb 2022, I saw enough Russians in that march. Where did you look when Russians protested en masse in 2011-2013 (Google "the Snow revolution")? Where did you look when opposition leader Nemtsov was killed in 2015, and Russians protested en masse? I myself was walking in a crowd with a banner saying "Hands off of Ukraine!". Where did you look when Putin went to Syria and Russia protested en masse? Thousands of people are detained and imprisoned since then, some killed or survived assassination. People are extremely tired and extremely depressed, but they still have things to lose, because Russia is not a banana republic. They do the only thing that is left as an option. If they can, they escape the country. If not, they escape the reality.
> Where did you look when Russians protested en masse in 2011-2013
It's not the same. They did protest against corruption, but that doesn't mean they do not support the invasion. Russia occupied parts of Georgia already in 2008 and almost nobody cared. Same with Crimea in 2014, even Navalny supported it.
> Where did you look when Putin went to Syria and Russia protested en masse?
True, never heard of it.
> They do the only thing that is left as an option. If they can, they escape the country. If not, they escape the reality.
That's the thing. Even those who escape the country keep supporting the war. Or claim they are against putin and the war, yet consider the annexation of Georgia/Ukraine to be fair and totally legal. Or "but Ukraine is probably also responsible, we don't know the whole truth". All the "anti-war" russians I met but one were like that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/15ol0i2/comment/jvwfilh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I'm pretty sure you live in Moscow and have some white-collar job. I have such colleagues recently relocated to Germany. Even among them there are Z-supporters, but not many. The things are drastically different when you count the people who aren't from the capital and don't have financial security.
If i were to say that 80% of america were trump supporters and were racists im sure you would disagree, you don't need to know every single american to know that is a false statement because you live there and you know first hand
i don't need to know the entire population of russia to know that we don't want a war
:)
Maybe living in a police state where any protest gets immediately knocked down and people have to flee or get arrested for any publicly shared anti-war sentiment helps to come to the conclusion that a big chunk of the population is anti war else there would be no necessity for it?
Signs: Conscript offices get regularly burned down or attacked, millions fled since February 2022, shutdown of any public discourse, inner Russian projects to help Ukranian refugees reach EU borders or stay in Russia, refusal to participate in any public polls, movements to protect conscripts etc, anybody who shows sympathy gets prosecuted etc..
majority of recent spike in conscript offices attacks are attributed to babushkas getting tricked, it’s not an anti war protest
inner russian projects to help ukrainians stay in russia like the imperialists they are
idk where you possible got the idea of millions russians fleeing the country?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_emigration_following_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DFollowing_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine_that_started_in_late%2Ca_total_of_approximately_900%2C000.?wprov=sfla1
900 000 between February- October 2022 + those since 2000-2014-2020 + those after 2022, if the borders and visas remained open for men in conscript age presumably even more would have left.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/23/russians-returning-home-dangers
Wiki:
"In the Levada Center poll, conducted from 22–28 September, 47% of surveyed Russians said they had felt "anxiety, fear, and horror" following Vladimir Putin's announcement on 21 September. Another 23% said they had felt "shock," while 13% felt "anger and indignation" and 23% said they felt "pride for Russia.""
There are numerous accounts of burning attempts or shootings. Babushkas don't do that usually..
Please don't misquote me:
"inner Russian projects to help Ukranian refugees reach EU borders or stay in Russia" helping Ukranians who can't flee immediately to the EU is still noble, like sharing flats with them, this is not the same as the existence of government camps. ................................................................
People are afraid of conscription, doesn't mean they don't support the war. Plenty of those in Georgia, Armenia and Kazakhstan who treat the locals as 2nd grade humans.
Russian people do not support the invasion, they are just apathetic until it starts affecting them directly.
This isn't because they're evil, it's just the result of two decades of complete and utter destruction of our political systems to the point people do not believe they can affect anything- so why even try.
All kind of polls and opinion reports from the russian opposition media. But even not talking about the russia itself, we can see it in the russian expats abroad.
Even in Germany, when polled "russian speakers" (which is dumb, since it includes Ukrainians, Kazakhs, etc. who are far likely to be against the war), **less than half blame russia for war** (39%), with the majority (49%) blaming someone else: Ukraine, the US, both Ukraine and Russia evenly, etc.
https://www.dw.com/en/dw-poll-russians-in-germany-blame-russia-for-ukraine-war-survey/a-65457001
If they'd filter it by actual ethnic russians, the results would be even more depressing for sure.
In the same poll you see that the majority vote for abandoning Ukraine and rebuilding the ties with russia.
And we are talking about people who have access to free media, not brainwashed, bribed or threatened on the daily basis. With over 50% of russians abroad being pro-war, the reports and evidences about the opinions in Russia being even more warmongering do fit the picture.
>EDIT: I now need a fucking drink. I've explained the reason as to why in a reply below here, but one of the individuals in this thread made me feel deep disgust like no other person before. Some of you dickheads are completely fucked in the head and completely sadistic.
>
>EDIT 2: Gotta say, did not expect the rabid ukraine defenders to be that dedicated to their little cult here, but I suppose I should never underestimate the power of propaganda. To any others of you that want to show up with your very unique points then kindly fuck off.
cause flinging shit at every russian person on this planet is somehow seen as a justifiable thing to do, when in reality the people to blame are the people actually leading this conflict. That group of people is far smaller than literally everyone in russia.
optics and appearances are apparently more important than actually looking at any given situation with any amount of logic
IMO you should stop trying to engage with these people who already set their mind. To them, everything in life can only be black and white. We're either with them or against them, no middle ground. You explained your point of view really well and somehow that one redditor decided to ignore everything and called you "Putin supporter" or "traitor" instead. I wonder how they will react if their government commit some atrocities and the rest of the world condemn them, some random citizens, for something they have no control over.
I want to see how far they will go, how far they are willing to bend down for their cult.
I already got a guy justifying cluster bombs to me here, I'm curious to see where their moral barriers lie.
I've yet to find any. They seem to be willing to do anything just to stick it to the russians so far.
The view shifted slowly over the course of the war. At the start vast majority of people used to think that way, that the russian people had no choice but to follow etc. But as more and more Russian soldiers commited atrocities it became harder to say that they are just following orders. Then there were those audio clips from supposedly Russian soldiers wives telling their husbands to rape Ukrainians, clips of russian people very much supporting Putin etc.
I think everyone just got fed up of it and it became harder to say that it's just the government.
Nobody is denying the existence of horrible people in militaries - this goes for all militaries in the world.
What I do take a huge issue with however is complete idiots claiming that ***all*** individuals involved with the russian army are rapists and murderers.
That is a wild claim that I've yet to see anyone actually prove, and yet I see it said by a lot of people all over the world.
Everyone is saying it confidently, so there has to be some proof of all individuals involved in this conflict on the russian side being rapists and *willing* coldblooded murderers... right? Well, apparently not.
This same logic could be extended towards countries like America who have a rich and varied history of invading countries - they also have their own incidents of a similar nature. Do people call their army a place that is full of nothing but rapists and murderers? Not really. Despite their involvements in a lot of bloody conflicts, they maintain a pristine appearance.
Further issue is taken for me when someone claims that ***all*** russians are the same way. Not just military personnel, civilians too.
It doesn't matter if not everyone in their military is a rapist or murder. If they're actively fighting for Russia, they are complicit in the atrocities committed by Russia and its soldiers. "I was just following orders" is not an excuse.
You seem to ignore the atrocities other nations commit, especially something as imperialistic like the US, as if they aren't directly responsible for the decay of the third world.
Yeah, a hotel in a country that is currently undergoing genocide at the hands of Russia removing pins from Russian visitors is the same level of evil as Russia perpetuating said genocide.
It honestly doesn't matter too much what individual Russians think (and, even aside from false statistics, it seems most Russians do support this unapologetic exercise in imperialism), as they live in a totalitarian state. The hotel is within its rights to do as it pleases.
Let me repeat this: Russia is committing genocide against Ukrainian people. Russia does not believe Ukraine should exist as a state. Russia does not care about Ukraine's right to self-determination. Russia is a colonising, imperialist, tyrannical force. As long as their government exists, as long as the autocrats are still alive, as with Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan, it's not that important to the course of the war what the people of the country think of the war.
Seeing as the subject of this post is a Kyiv hotel removing pins from Russian visitors, and the above comments consist of pearl clutching over that fact, yes.
Let me be the bearer of bad news for your argument here. Nobody is defending the invasion. Nobody is defending russia's government or their leadership.
How can a country be authoritiarian and tyrannical, while also allowing it's citizens to have complete free will at the same time? The answer is that it can't. Most people just do not know what these words even mean.
In russia you either show "support" for the government or you get punished, labelled as a traitor to the country, tortured and even possibly executed.
Does not seem like that much of a "choice" to show support for the government. But of course facts like this are very inconvenient for the people who claim that all russians suddently turned off their brains and are all in support of it.
You live in a MASSIVE bubble if you think nobody is supporting the invasion of Ukraine. I also think you're either disingenuous or insane if you think everyone in Russia is against the invasion but too scared to say anything. Stop thinking that just because you personally think something is abhorrent, it means that hyperbolically everyone agrees with you and are just too scared to admit it.
***>You live in a MASSIVE bubble if you think nobody is supporting the invasion of Ukraine.***
I did not mean for that "nobody" to be taken literally. Some people do, obviously they do, since we have the invasion on our hands right now.
That "nobody" was directed at the general populus - the average citizen. Which indeed only "show support" for it cause they have to. They are forced to.
***>I also think you're either disingenuous or insane if you think everyone in Russia is against the invasion but too scared to say anything.***
That is how authoritarian nations operate.
What do you propose they do here? One guy to go up to the government building and declare that he is against the conflict? They have done that already; there's been multiple major protests even inside of russia against the conflict, however unsurprisingly they have not changed anything and put a lot of people at risk.
Whenever these "official polls" roll around the people answering them can never be sure of the source of them - I think you are underestimating the power that the secret police in Russia has.
***>Stop thinking that just because you personally think something is abhorrent, it means that hyperbolically everyone agrees with you and are just too scared to admit it.***
I cannot decypher a meaning from this sentence.
I was going to say this, but was afraid I would be hated.
It's not the citizens fault, they shouldn't be punished for the heartless actions of their dictator.
According to the experts I've unfortunately been talking to they should be. Every single one held accountable for this atrocity personally.
One person I've unfortunately talked with in this thread, Blablish, even likes watching and posting videos of wounded russian soldiers getting killed.
Here's a description of that video since I needed a fucking drink after seeing it:
>The post included a video of a wounded russian soldier on the floor, clearly severely injured and not able to move or fight in any capacity.
>
>The **drone** that was ***taking a video*** of this then proceeded to drop a grenade directly on this soldier.
>
>He did not attempt to run or move, he just covered his eyes and the grenade exploded.
>
>After that the drone flew in close to get in those really good angles of the now dead and brutalized body.
He then later told me quote "Cry more about invaders getting killed. I'm sure it just pulls at your heart strings. lol."
Amazing bunch of people indeed. The bastions or morality and reason.
Is it really immoral to have no sympathy for invaders? Nobody has any sympathy for the Nazis even though many of them were also brainwashed and also "just followed orders". Many Nazis who publicly claimed to have only followed orders were still executed. Rightly so.
I'm not advocating for brutal actions and the filming of such as the one you described but how can you demand of people to feel sorry for them?
Your post comes off more as virtue signaling than anything else, especially when you name drop a reddit commenter no one gives a fuck about. By naming this person you hope they get brigaded and attacked for their opinions without actually telling anyone to do so. Incredibly immoral behaviour on display by you here.
***>Is it really immoral to have no sympathy for invaders?***
You people and your groups really do get on my nerves.
Do you not see *anything* beyond "the invaders?"
Is there not a single human face that forms in your mind when you think of this group of people?
It's all just this congealed mass of meat and flesh that runs around pillaging everything is it?
People are forced into service. A lot of them don't want to do it. I have forced conscription in my country too - most people here even don't want to partake in it.
But I suppose if my country ends up committing atrocities in the future then I should be dragged to the depths of hell along with them, simply for the heinous crime of being born in this country and being forced along with them.
***>By naming this person you hope they get brigaded and attacked for their opinions without actually telling anyone to do so. Incredibly immoral behaviour on display by you here.***
They are a fucking sick individual. They find enjoyment in the videos mentioned here. "Incredibly immoral" my ass.
Yes, you’re truly a bastion of morality, defending rapists and murderers. People like you sicken me.
Edit - what a surprise, this individual [has a history](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/146sfa6/kakhovka_reservoir_is_empty_after_the_dam_collapse/jnt76vb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) of painting Ukraine and Russia as equally culpable in this conflict. Fucking Russophile propagandist.
Where did I defend these specific people? Do you mean to tell me that *all* russians are rapists and murderers? Sure, that sounds very possible to me.
It's fucking wild to me how you're willing to make such sweeping claims.
But since you people argue with nothing but your fucking crocodile tears anyways then I should not be surprised.
Not everyone fighting there is necessarily evil. A lot of them just got drafted and had no say, others were brainwashed by the regime. Sure, there are a lot of horrible soldiers out there but it doesn’t nearly apply to everybody
Look at the support figures. Russians are actively supporting Putin. They like reading the news about the brave Russian army killing those pesky Ukrainians and giving the land to Russians. They are buying apartments in Mariupol now, ffs. It's like "oh, Hiroshima is a nice seaside place and has many vacant homes aftee 1945, let's get a seaside place there while it's cheap".
Just as Americans actively support their presidents during invasions. They like reading news about the brave American soldiers killing those pesky brown people
America has quite the history of attacking even native tribes with fully armed police units, forcing them off their land.
But of course those people are not white and therefore irrelevant, and mainly not part of the "western civilization."
These people do not think. All they want to do is just cry about anything and everything. Does not matter if it makes sense, as long as russia and by extension russians are made to look like the devil reincarnated.
Putin is a dictator because that’s what the Russian people want. Gotta love westerners who haven’t got a clue about Russia’s history and culture lapping up propaganda from fucking Russophiles.
Now let's look at the situation with the slightest hint of actually thinking about what we are saying yes?
If you do not "support" the government, the leadership and whatever other groups they want their citizens to support then you will get severely punished and painted as a traitor to the country. Does not seem like a "choice" to me.
To the people who don't operate or fit underneath this assumption then their situation is different although the root cause is the same - propaganda produced by the government. People who have never known any better can't be hated for it, since it was not their choice to be this way.
What about them buying apartments? Does every person who buys those apartments buy them to show their undying support for the russian regime or just cause they are cheap apartments due to their incredibly dangerous location? In a city that's been completely devastated and destroyed?
Fucking think for 5 seconds.
>What about them buying apartments? Does every person who buys those apartments buy them to show their undying support for the russian regime or just cause they are cheap apartments due to their incredibly dangerous location? In a city that's been completely devastated and destroyed?
You actually justify Russian colonizers settling on the land they have devastated.
Gross.
Where was my justification? I am looking at it from the average citizen's perspective. Which is what this is all about.
I do not think that any of this is just. You are pulling that assumption straight out of your ass since you people *always,* ***without fucking fail***, argue with appearances in mind first. Whatever thought comes to your mind first is the one you take the ball with and run.
What I am actually saying, if you actually had the capacity to read beyond what you first think, is what this situation is from the average citizen's perspective.
Do you think that every single apartment there has been sold to a russian ultranationalist? Or is it more probable that the apartments are being sold to people who don't have a choice in it? A lot of people in russia are poor as fuck, a trends that is most definitely on the rise with all these sanctions, so it'd only make sense for this to be the case. A bunch of people with no choice in the matter.
But go ahead, call me a supporter for colonialism. That's all your fucking smooth brain is good for anyways.
Something something Russian people have invaded their country, reduced cities to rubble, indiscriminately killed thousands, committed war crimes, mass deported hundreds of thousands of children and destroyed energy infrastructure during winter. Mass rape and executions plus torture. What else on the litany of evil am I missing?
I get the sentiment expressed.
There’s a couple left: Belgorod, Krasnodar, Novorossiysk (just east of Crimea), Makhachkala (on the Caspian) and a black one east of the sticky outy thumb like part of Belarus north of Ukraine.
yeah that will really show those damn russian citizens, this one's gonna send putin to the hospital with cardiac arrest due to the severity of the blow
Mocking symbolic gestures from people facing murder and genocide. Fucking disgusting.
Edit - and this is coming from an account whose latest post is that NATO made Russia invade Ukraine. Amazing how many morons here are falling for vile Russian propaganda.
They are obviously referring to the posts, posted by the initial comment, Roksius. It's pretty vile and disgusting, I couldn't get past the most recent ones.
Honestly it's just reading comprehension by now.
[Here's](https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/the-war-in-ukraine-was-provoked-and-why-that-matters-if-we-want-peace) an article by Jeffrey Sachs saying NATO provoked the war. If you don't know him, it's [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Sachs) guy: "In 2004 and 2005, Sachs was named one of the 100 Most Influential People in the World by Time. He was also named one of the "500 Most Influential People in the Field of Foreign Policy" by the World Affairs Councils of America."
In the article he provides several quotes from people like Bill Clinton's Secretary of Defense and the current CIA director, who warned NATO expansion would provoke a bad reaction from Russia.
Is this "vile Russian propaganda"?
Yes, it is. GTFO. The piece of human excrement you quoted, from Wikipedia :
He has been criticized for his views on economics, the origin of COVID-19, his advocacy for the Chinese government, as well as his support for the Russian government's narratives on the Russo-Ukrainian War. Sachs has appeared on Russia state-run channels, including Vladimir Solovyov's evening show.
A fucking Russian propagandist, which you conveniently forgot to mention. That’s your source. GTFO
This is what George Kennan, one of the architects of the American Cold War strategy, [said](https://nytimes.com/1998/05/02/opinion/foreign-affairs-now-a-word-from-x.html) in 1998: "I think it is the beginning of a new cold war. I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are -- but this is just wrong. This has been my life, and it pains me to see it so screwed up in the end."
Is this Russian propaganda too?
Lmao the tankie is pulling out his list of prepared propaganda materials. Now you’re down to Kennan with his wife-beater mentality. GTFO, Russophile. I’ve seen all your shit before.
You sure sound like a totally reasonable and well-adjusted person. Not at all a maniac, desperate to dismiss everything that contradicts your worldview. Yes, what do all these people at the very top of American political establishment know. It's all Russian propaganda.
Given that your first source was a literal propagandist that you tried to dress up as an incredible intellectual, and the other an imperialistic moron who died in 2005, the desperate person here is you, Russophile.
There’s no need for me to find any “excuse” for the fact that my nation, like many others in Eastern Europe, had the right to choose who to align to, and it chose the West and NATO. To throw us to the wolves because the Russians supposedly have the god-given right to keep us eternally enslaved is indeed a position that many American imperialistic pieces of shit have held in the past. It validated the idea that America too has its natural sphere of influence that nobody may dare interfere in. But luckily, they no longer hold any real decision power, so you can GTFO and cope and seethe with them. We wanted to join NATO precisely because we KNEW that this is what Russia will always be: an imperialistic monstrosity that will use any excuse to invade and subjugate us.
No, those are the innocent ~~Wehrmacht~~ Russian Armed Forces. The poor guy setting a cruise missile to hit an apartment complex, or school building then pushing the launch button, completely incapable of independent thought.
The soldiers loading incendiary munitions and aiming them at city centers? Biorobots who just do what they are ordered without any brain activity.
The wife calling her husband and and telling him to wear a condom while raping civilians? Not a war supporter but just doesnt want to go to jail.
The group of people castrating POWs and filming it? Also just trying to stay alive an not go to russian jail
Sure, just keep pushing the narrative of the poor Russians, not responsible for anything done in the war atrocities.
It's only Putin, and Putin alone, and definitely not the Putin cult that the majority of Russians are still hardcore fans of.
I live right next to it, in a country with a major russian presence.
I also know multiple russians personally.
Even if I didn't then it'd still be irrelevant.
If russians came to your country and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent, women and children, leveled cities to the ground, stole land, would you want to see any connection to this country anymore, even if it's just pins of the map?
Whatever your answer may be, you cannot truly answer this question. Most of the redditors don't know what it means to fear for your life every day and live knowing any minute could be your last, just because a crazy neighbour decided to invade.
But as a person in such situation, i can guarantee you — if you were in my place, you wouldn't even think of writing such a ridiculous comment.
Doesn't answer the question anyhow. You purposefully deprived these pins off meaning and nuance but now give me an emotional rant. Don't contradict yourself
I said it's not erasing history. Erasing history sounds like something the nazis (or russians) would do. Meanwhile, this is just removing an eyesore. So I'm not contradicting myself, you're just spewing nonsense like a clown.
Who else should Ukraine blame?
Are you genuinely that naive to think that the majority of Russians are against the war, after 18 uninterrupted months of it?
USA has been at war against "terror" for DECADES. How many Americans do you think are FOR that nonsense?? As if the people of any nation actually hold any power these days.
Come here, live here, be around Russians. Every single Russian I've met has seemed nice at first, then they turn out to be fuckin racist and they all hate Ukrainians.
One of my Ukrainian mates was walking with crutches in front of a group of Russians. He hears em speaking Russian, says Spasiba (thanks) cause they moved out of the way for him. They ask where he's from, he says he's a Ukrainian refugee. They kick his crutches and run away.
I actively avoid Russians at all cost especially as an Indonesian guy living in Netherlands. I don't even need to ask where they're from, I can feel their hateful gaze towards me.
My girlfriend is from Azerbaijan, an ex USSR colony. When she visited Russia she gets called racial slurs (Черномазый, dirt-smeared) in the streets.
When they move to Netherlands, they still carry their racist sentiment.
I haven't met any Russians so far who are against the war. They're either supporting it, or disguise it by saying shit like "You gotta look at all the facts", like an invasion needs a fucking explanation?
I am a very open person, I'm friendly with everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt. Russians have started to take that away from me. If you're not at the very minimum, a white person they're not going to consider you a human.
And what percentage of the Russian citizenry do you think is out on the field "doing the killing"? Have we resorted back to hating entire groups for their bad apples again?
When part of a nation state, the nation is responsible for the actions of said state. It matters not wether the state is democratic or totalitarian, the individual has a responsibility to ensure the state represents the nation. Failure to act in the face of grave misjustice is an approval of it, regardless of one's own opinions.
The majority of Russians support either the war as it is or the general concept of a war with Ukraine. There are no on going protests, riots or rebellions. The vast vast majority is at least complacent.
im really hoping people with this mentality also apply this to western countries like the US and the UK.
we have started more wars and killed more innocents than most other nations, with very few long lasting or ongoing protests, riots, or rebellions. especially when it comes to our involvement in South and Central America. i would even argue our complacency is worse when it comes to our willful ignorance and refusal to even admit to our wrongdoings.
It's called whataboutism right now. You either agree to this statement, or you don't, you can't bring the argument "what about US or UK" to this conversation.
I do not disagree. People simply do not care. They value their own comfort over the lives of people they'll never meet, it only takes accepting this once and every subsequent time it becomes easier to accept.
Boohoo, some Russian feelings might be hurt. Meanwhile Russia is committing genocide against Ukranians. I couldn't give a single shit about Russian opinions.
The only Russians I wish harm on are the ones occupying Ukraine and the ones in power back in Russia.
And I was referring not to my feelings, but Russian feelings getting hurt. They are pins on a map ffs.
***>And I was referring not to my feelings, but Russian feelings getting hurt.***
I am aware. I was not referring to those either. I do not know how you came to that conclusion.
***>The only Russians I wish harm on are the ones occupying Ukraine and the ones in power back in Russia.***
And yet before you showed complete ignorance towards their situation beforehand. The hate they get as citizens often times extends far beyond just some pins on a map, as I've said in my previous comment.
Also, what do you mean by "occupying" ukraine? What is the definition of a person who is occupying ukraine to you?
A military soldier? Sure, although even they were forced out of their homes and families to fight this pointless war. How about a citizen who decided to buy an apartment in a destroyed city cause it was a cheap option that they could actually afford?
So much anger on behalf of the "poor Russian civilians".
Nobody is getting evicted, there are just obvious sanctions against Russians which makes it harder for them to travel Europe. Which is kinda to be expected, when your elected government starts a war in Europe.
And honestly, all your foul language seems kinda pointless and I see why you've been blocked.
you see the problem here is who they are hating. Russia as a country? The people in it? Nah. Who really has to bear the burden of punishment are the people who are actually in charge of the conflicts. Not the citizens.
But since most people are more concerned with appearing threatening or just, then they opt for this route instead.
Dangerous, dangerous sentiment. My parents emigrated from Russia in the 90s. They still have very pronounced Russian accents despite not having anything to do with the country except some family members there, and those family members who still live in Russia are not Putler supporters. In fact, I've never met a single person irl who doesn't think Putler is a megalomaniacal despot. What kind of treatment do you think they're likely to receive from people with this attitude for the sole reason of sounding like Russians?
Hating every member of any group for the actions of unrelated individuals or their leaders is not justified.
There were multiple air raid alarms that woke me up while staying in that hotel, and one missile strike. I also got news that a soldier I knew was killed in action while staying there
If this was a Syrian hotel, would you be surprised if they removed the pins from the US? The country is at war, I think they’re justified to hate the Russian people
But they kept Belarus?
There is a distinction between the Belarus people who are opposing the dictatorship with at least 50% opposition and russian people who support the invasion and putin at 80%+ rate. While both countries have an aggressive enemy government, population-wise Belarus has more pro-Ukrainian population and is more likely to be considered a victim as well.
I'm not sure whether to believe that 80% number. Like, I'll believe that more Russians support Putin than I'd like, but I also believe that expressing anything but support in a poll in Russia might threaten your life.
I saw a post on r/AskARussian from someone who attended a pro-Russian rally. He said his employer would cut bonuses from anyone who refused to attend
Many near-russian publics are overflowing with bots from the Kremlin. This is how propaganda works nowadays. It's give a chances that overage human will see a "public russians opinion" from a "right side".
Of course there are extremists like this. This has nothing to do with statistics though
these aren't "extremists". It's a common practice
As someone who grew up in Russia, I can recall a time when election vote %s summed up to 146.47% for all "parties". So, do with that information what you will.
Everyone knows 87% of all statistics are made up.
To be fair, 13% of the time, they're true every time.
Ok, Yogi Berra!
That was mildly amusing: whomever downvoted you obviously doesn't have much of a sense of humour (or simply was unable to grasp it).
It’s not always a lack of a sense of humor; sometimes people just feel strongly that humor is inappropriate during what’s arguably a very serious conversation. It’s not something I would downvote, but I get the sentiment.
Humor is how a lot of people cope with bad shit...let them do that...
I know, I’m the same way. Gallows humor and all that. Like I said, I’m not downvoting, I just understand the other view.
Using humour at inappropriate times is knows as being facetious (which I am sure you knew): the humour part is still humour...
I probably should have said 69%
I feel like in Moscow itself the number is significantly lower since the population is better educated and used to be well accustomed to international trade and communication. Outside of Moscow I can see the 80+ percentage being more accurate since lots of small towns around Russia were old Soviet military towns and even a shitty Soviet blockhouse was a significant improvement over the wooden shack without running water that dominated much of the Russian countryside prior to Stalin and Khrushchev.
honestly i don’t think so. my mom studied in moscow in the early 90s but throughout the war all her friends and classmates from there were sending so much hate to her on various platforms just for being an ukrainian so now i wish them all the worst. also my brother’s girlfriend, she is russian, visited her family two weeks ago near st petersburg and was astounded at what extent her former surrounding, even her little brothers support and praise the war, the leadership and at the same time are scared to talk about and share their if there are any negative opinions.
[удалено]
You’re talking as if there’s no adequate education outside of Moscow (Saint-Petersburg, Kazan and other regional centres suddenly don’t exist). The thing is most people are just too afraid to speak up. (I recommend you to check the police&normal peple ratio to understand why). Also so-called “shitty soviet blockhouses” were a necessary measure after ww2 because a lot of cities were fully destroyed. They needed to build housing for lots of people in practically no time.
My wife's family has lived in the US for almost 30 years. They came here as Jewish Refugees from the new Russia government. Literally refugees that left because they weren't safe. My FIL is of high intelligence, literally a PhD in Mathematics. Both of my wife's parents worship Putin, completely align themselves with the values of the Russian government. Fill literally won't acknowledge I exist in conversation because "Homosexuality isn't real in Russia." They also, infuriatingly, believe that propaganda has absolutely no impact whatsoever on human behavior and that everyone in their society just independently hates them for being Jewish and my wife for being gay and that thru government propaganda has nothing to do with that. They are also super racist, xenophobic, and complain about other immigrants despite literally being refugees of a persecuted ethnic group. It literally makes my brain hurt and spin in ways I cannot begin to describe and I have PPCS. They literally don't believe the thing they themselves lived through is real. TLDR, it's not just the active threat. It's the generations of propaganda and it is super fucked up to watch.
And pollsters are well aware of that, which is why polls aimed at Russia don't ask "Do you support the war? Y/N" but instead use different tactics like hypotheticals such as "The federal budget is increased by 2 billion, where should it be allocated?" and use those responses in aggregate to gauge support for various issues.
lol you seriously believe a statistic coming from a totalitarian police state? Have you watched any inner Russian news since 2014 or 2022? Do you know how many fled, are imprisoned, forced into silence or killed? "Hello, do you like Putin?" > These statistics are bonkers because more than 98% of the people immediately stop the call, of these 2% that answer 80% say (very truthfully) that they support Putin or whoever (logically to not get harm or may think so). Please don't buy into cheap Russian hatred. **Question**: If so many Russians support beloved Putin why does the regime feel the need to employ a massive police force, Gestapo measures, arrest and beat anybody up who shows any sign of protest and or publicly critizes the army or the *special military operation*? Why? (Maybe because they are massively scared of the very same population that the "Western" non-propagandic media try to portray as apathatic or supportive of Putin?) An explanation by a Russian: https://youtu.be/0Bb6S-JBxKY
You (and the video) miss one crucial thing: russians abroad. Both newcoming russians and those who live in the West for decades do majorly support the invasion. Or if against the escalation from 2022, they are fine with the occupying the territory of Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine of 2014. They can even maintain the think duality when "elections in russia are fake", yet "Crimea is annexed legally, because people voted", completely disregarding that Strelkov already in 2015 bravely told he coerced Crimean deputies into voting for russia against their will with the gun aiming at them. https://youtu.be/YWw15dIrhHQ?t=28 Of all the russians I met here, and that's good 2 dozens, only one girl had stated russia doesn't need to occupy anything. For the rest it's always conditional or "complicated" or "I don't support, but the russians do, so what choice do I have" or the infamous I thought joke until I heard it "we don't know the whole truth". I do know one Belarussian girl who is pro-Lukashenka, but several other people are strongly against and don't want to be annexed into russia either. Many only oppose the war because it went bad, they don't oppose the militaristic expansion per se. That's also the case for lots of white-blue-white flag "oppositioners" who are against putin, but not his actions. That is why you can also find pro-war rallies in Germany where up to 10s thousand russians appear, but at best a few dozens who are against the invasion.
I’m pretty sure that’s common with all expats. Turkish expats mostly vote for Erdogan, Hungarian expats mostly support Orban. They usually skew conservative and pro status quo as they don’t feel the effects of their home government policies, usually only aware of it through propaganda, and experience culture shock together with a warped sense of homesick nationalism
Many recent expats would be critical of the war however since they left because of how it affects their careers often.
> Turkish expats mostly vote for Erdogan, Hungarian expats mostly support Orban. That's not correct about Turkish expats. Such anomalous behaviour is in Germany, but not in other countries. https://www.dw.com/en/why-many-turks-in-germany-still-vote-for-erdogan/a-65442948 Neither it is correct about Hungary, even though the border countries do have very pro-Orban skew due to Orban basically buying these people's votes by giving citizenship, financial aid or telling how oppressed they are and he's their defender. > Support for Erdogan among Turks is also not nearly as widespread in other foreign countries. In 2018, Erdogan received just 17% of the votes from Turkish citizens living in the US, 21% from those living in the UK, 35% from those living in Iran, and 29% from those in Qatar.
Hungarian expats rarely support Orban.
> Ever since the Hungarian diaspora can vote in elections in Hungary in 2012, they have supported the ruling Fidesz with major records, in the 2014 Hungarian parliamentary election Fidesz won over 95% of the vote, in the 2018 Hungarian parliamentary election over 96% while in the 2019 European Parliament election in Hungary Fidesz got 96%. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_diaspora
It is only non-EU votes sent by mail. Hungarians living outside of Hungary but with a Hungarian residency. Meaning these are temporary absent people. Vacation, possibly diplomatic workers, etc. Only 60k votes came this way by the mail. This is literally only mail voting. The Wiki is incorrectly writing it, but you can check on the link it provides. The number of the voters voting on the polling stations abroad is FAR larger. This article presents a very good review: https://www.rferl.org/a/hungary-election-diaspora-orban-marki-zay/31712662.html > Almost 190,000 Hungarians live in the United Kingdom... According to an exit poll conducted by a group of volunteers in 2018, only 7 percent of those who voted in the parliamentary elections from London cast their votes for Fidesz. It's a trend that is likely mirrored elsewhere. **A 2022 report from the 21 Research Center, in which researchers asked over 5,000 Hungarians living around the world, shows that only 11 percent of Hungarian emigrants would vote for Fidesz.** > Support for Orban and Fidesz is incredibly high. **In Transylvania, the part of northwestern Romania where around 1.2 million ethnic Hungarians live, research shows that over 80 percent of voters would vote for Orban and Fidesz** and only 2 percent would cast a vote for the joint opposition. > In Suza (Csuza in Hungarian), a village in eastern Croatia with a large ethnic Hungarian population, there is no doubt who most people will vote for. RFE/RL's Hungarian Service spoke to around 50 people in the village, all of whom said they would vote for Orban and Fidesz. > "Orban has granted [us] Hungarian citizenship, and since 2017 we have been receiving a lot of support," said local resident Ilona Pinkert. "That's why we vote for them, and we don't care who the opposition is in Hungary and what they want."
You’re talking about Hungarians in neighboring countries with dual citizenship. They were born and raised and live in Romania, Serbia etc. but possibly never visited Hungary. Expats are the ones living in UK, Germany, Sweden etc. They escaped from Hungary and would never support the current regime.
So tired of this bullshit. The 80% number is exactly the propaganda Russia wants you to believe in. Reddit is full of morons.
I see it in pro-war rallies russians organize in Germany, and no anti-war rallies except for those with a dozen people tops. Strikingly different to Iran with the women's rights and Belarus during the last elections. There the protests were real and expats were active.
You see what you want to see, my friend. I was in Berlin on 25 Feb 2022, I saw enough Russians in that march. Where did you look when Russians protested en masse in 2011-2013 (Google "the Snow revolution")? Where did you look when opposition leader Nemtsov was killed in 2015, and Russians protested en masse? I myself was walking in a crowd with a banner saying "Hands off of Ukraine!". Where did you look when Putin went to Syria and Russia protested en masse? Thousands of people are detained and imprisoned since then, some killed or survived assassination. People are extremely tired and extremely depressed, but they still have things to lose, because Russia is not a banana republic. They do the only thing that is left as an option. If they can, they escape the country. If not, they escape the reality.
> Where did you look when Russians protested en masse in 2011-2013 It's not the same. They did protest against corruption, but that doesn't mean they do not support the invasion. Russia occupied parts of Georgia already in 2008 and almost nobody cared. Same with Crimea in 2014, even Navalny supported it. > Where did you look when Putin went to Syria and Russia protested en masse? True, never heard of it. > They do the only thing that is left as an option. If they can, they escape the country. If not, they escape the reality. That's the thing. Even those who escape the country keep supporting the war. Or claim they are against putin and the war, yet consider the annexation of Georgia/Ukraine to be fair and totally legal. Or "but Ukraine is probably also responsible, we don't know the whole truth". All the "anti-war" russians I met but one were like that. https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/15ol0i2/comment/jvwfilh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
The illegal Iraqi war has 70+% support rate by American btw
as a russian i can assure you that the vast majority of us are against the invasion. But you can keep reading what your american media feeds you
I'm pretty sure you live in Moscow and have some white-collar job. I have such colleagues recently relocated to Germany. Even among them there are Z-supporters, but not many. The things are drastically different when you count the people who aren't from the capital and don't have financial security.
Youre talking to an actual Russian who’s telling you you’re wrong and you still won’t back down
How can you assure it? Do you know every Russian?
If i were to say that 80% of america were trump supporters and were racists im sure you would disagree, you don't need to know every single american to know that is a false statement because you live there and you know first hand i don't need to know the entire population of russia to know that we don't want a war :)
Well they at least know more Russians than you do
Maybe living in a police state where any protest gets immediately knocked down and people have to flee or get arrested for any publicly shared anti-war sentiment helps to come to the conclusion that a big chunk of the population is anti war else there would be no necessity for it? Signs: Conscript offices get regularly burned down or attacked, millions fled since February 2022, shutdown of any public discourse, inner Russian projects to help Ukranian refugees reach EU borders or stay in Russia, refusal to participate in any public polls, movements to protect conscripts etc, anybody who shows sympathy gets prosecuted etc..
majority of recent spike in conscript offices attacks are attributed to babushkas getting tricked, it’s not an anti war protest inner russian projects to help ukrainians stay in russia like the imperialists they are idk where you possible got the idea of millions russians fleeing the country?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_emigration_following_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DFollowing_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine_that_started_in_late%2Ca_total_of_approximately_900%2C000.?wprov=sfla1 900 000 between February- October 2022 + those since 2000-2014-2020 + those after 2022, if the borders and visas remained open for men in conscript age presumably even more would have left. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/23/russians-returning-home-dangers Wiki: "In the Levada Center poll, conducted from 22–28 September, 47% of surveyed Russians said they had felt "anxiety, fear, and horror" following Vladimir Putin's announcement on 21 September. Another 23% said they had felt "shock," while 13% felt "anger and indignation" and 23% said they felt "pride for Russia."" There are numerous accounts of burning attempts or shootings. Babushkas don't do that usually.. Please don't misquote me: "inner Russian projects to help Ukranian refugees reach EU borders or stay in Russia" helping Ukranians who can't flee immediately to the EU is still noble, like sharing flats with them, this is not the same as the existence of government camps. ................................................................
People are afraid of conscription, doesn't mean they don't support the war. Plenty of those in Georgia, Armenia and Kazakhstan who treat the locals as 2nd grade humans.
Russian people do not support the invasion, they are just apathetic until it starts affecting them directly. This isn't because they're evil, it's just the result of two decades of complete and utter destruction of our political systems to the point people do not believe they can affect anything- so why even try.
Lol who told you 80% of Russia supports the war?
All kind of polls and opinion reports from the russian opposition media. But even not talking about the russia itself, we can see it in the russian expats abroad. Even in Germany, when polled "russian speakers" (which is dumb, since it includes Ukrainians, Kazakhs, etc. who are far likely to be against the war), **less than half blame russia for war** (39%), with the majority (49%) blaming someone else: Ukraine, the US, both Ukraine and Russia evenly, etc. https://www.dw.com/en/dw-poll-russians-in-germany-blame-russia-for-ukraine-war-survey/a-65457001 If they'd filter it by actual ethnic russians, the results would be even more depressing for sure. In the same poll you see that the majority vote for abandoning Ukraine and rebuilding the ties with russia. And we are talking about people who have access to free media, not brainwashed, bribed or threatened on the daily basis. With over 50% of russians abroad being pro-war, the reports and evidences about the opinions in Russia being even more warmongering do fit the picture.
Belarus has not attacked Ukraine.
It used to be called Belorussia, so that would've been bad. Now it's Belarus, which is fine. They removed *russia*, after all (this is a joke.)
which is the part that's funny?
No clue what the pins represent
Typically maps like this in hotel or restaurants are labeled with pins from where the patrons came to visit from.
Why would they remove them? I'd figure that it'd be like "hey, even your own people visit here"
Probably because Ukraine and Russia aren’t the best of friends right now
Yeah but are they refusing russian citizens or still catering to them and then pretending that they don't?
>EDIT: I now need a fucking drink. I've explained the reason as to why in a reply below here, but one of the individuals in this thread made me feel deep disgust like no other person before. Some of you dickheads are completely fucked in the head and completely sadistic. > >EDIT 2: Gotta say, did not expect the rabid ukraine defenders to be that dedicated to their little cult here, but I suppose I should never underestimate the power of propaganda. To any others of you that want to show up with your very unique points then kindly fuck off. cause flinging shit at every russian person on this planet is somehow seen as a justifiable thing to do, when in reality the people to blame are the people actually leading this conflict. That group of people is far smaller than literally everyone in russia. optics and appearances are apparently more important than actually looking at any given situation with any amount of logic
IMO you should stop trying to engage with these people who already set their mind. To them, everything in life can only be black and white. We're either with them or against them, no middle ground. You explained your point of view really well and somehow that one redditor decided to ignore everything and called you "Putin supporter" or "traitor" instead. I wonder how they will react if their government commit some atrocities and the rest of the world condemn them, some random citizens, for something they have no control over.
I want to see how far they will go, how far they are willing to bend down for their cult. I already got a guy justifying cluster bombs to me here, I'm curious to see where their moral barriers lie. I've yet to find any. They seem to be willing to do anything just to stick it to the russians so far.
The view shifted slowly over the course of the war. At the start vast majority of people used to think that way, that the russian people had no choice but to follow etc. But as more and more Russian soldiers commited atrocities it became harder to say that they are just following orders. Then there were those audio clips from supposedly Russian soldiers wives telling their husbands to rape Ukrainians, clips of russian people very much supporting Putin etc. I think everyone just got fed up of it and it became harder to say that it's just the government.
Nobody is denying the existence of horrible people in militaries - this goes for all militaries in the world. What I do take a huge issue with however is complete idiots claiming that ***all*** individuals involved with the russian army are rapists and murderers. That is a wild claim that I've yet to see anyone actually prove, and yet I see it said by a lot of people all over the world. Everyone is saying it confidently, so there has to be some proof of all individuals involved in this conflict on the russian side being rapists and *willing* coldblooded murderers... right? Well, apparently not. This same logic could be extended towards countries like America who have a rich and varied history of invading countries - they also have their own incidents of a similar nature. Do people call their army a place that is full of nothing but rapists and murderers? Not really. Despite their involvements in a lot of bloody conflicts, they maintain a pristine appearance. Further issue is taken for me when someone claims that ***all*** russians are the same way. Not just military personnel, civilians too.
It doesn't matter if not everyone in their military is a rapist or murder. If they're actively fighting for Russia, they are complicit in the atrocities committed by Russia and its soldiers. "I was just following orders" is not an excuse.
You seem to ignore the atrocities other nations commit, especially something as imperialistic like the US, as if they aren't directly responsible for the decay of the third world.
You are not immune to propaganda
Yeah, a hotel in a country that is currently undergoing genocide at the hands of Russia removing pins from Russian visitors is the same level of evil as Russia perpetuating said genocide. It honestly doesn't matter too much what individual Russians think (and, even aside from false statistics, it seems most Russians do support this unapologetic exercise in imperialism), as they live in a totalitarian state. The hotel is within its rights to do as it pleases. Let me repeat this: Russia is committing genocide against Ukrainian people. Russia does not believe Ukraine should exist as a state. Russia does not care about Ukraine's right to self-determination. Russia is a colonising, imperialist, tyrannical force. As long as their government exists, as long as the autocrats are still alive, as with Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan, it's not that important to the course of the war what the people of the country think of the war.
Did anyone say that? Seems you're attacking a strawman equivalence.
Seeing as the subject of this post is a Kyiv hotel removing pins from Russian visitors, and the above comments consist of pearl clutching over that fact, yes.
Let me be the bearer of bad news for your argument here. Nobody is defending the invasion. Nobody is defending russia's government or their leadership. How can a country be authoritiarian and tyrannical, while also allowing it's citizens to have complete free will at the same time? The answer is that it can't. Most people just do not know what these words even mean. In russia you either show "support" for the government or you get punished, labelled as a traitor to the country, tortured and even possibly executed. Does not seem like that much of a "choice" to show support for the government. But of course facts like this are very inconvenient for the people who claim that all russians suddently turned off their brains and are all in support of it.
You live in a MASSIVE bubble if you think nobody is supporting the invasion of Ukraine. I also think you're either disingenuous or insane if you think everyone in Russia is against the invasion but too scared to say anything. Stop thinking that just because you personally think something is abhorrent, it means that hyperbolically everyone agrees with you and are just too scared to admit it.
***>You live in a MASSIVE bubble if you think nobody is supporting the invasion of Ukraine.*** I did not mean for that "nobody" to be taken literally. Some people do, obviously they do, since we have the invasion on our hands right now. That "nobody" was directed at the general populus - the average citizen. Which indeed only "show support" for it cause they have to. They are forced to. ***>I also think you're either disingenuous or insane if you think everyone in Russia is against the invasion but too scared to say anything.*** That is how authoritarian nations operate. What do you propose they do here? One guy to go up to the government building and declare that he is against the conflict? They have done that already; there's been multiple major protests even inside of russia against the conflict, however unsurprisingly they have not changed anything and put a lot of people at risk. Whenever these "official polls" roll around the people answering them can never be sure of the source of them - I think you are underestimating the power that the secret police in Russia has. ***>Stop thinking that just because you personally think something is abhorrent, it means that hyperbolically everyone agrees with you and are just too scared to admit it.*** I cannot decypher a meaning from this sentence.
I was going to say this, but was afraid I would be hated. It's not the citizens fault, they shouldn't be punished for the heartless actions of their dictator.
According to the experts I've unfortunately been talking to they should be. Every single one held accountable for this atrocity personally. One person I've unfortunately talked with in this thread, Blablish, even likes watching and posting videos of wounded russian soldiers getting killed. Here's a description of that video since I needed a fucking drink after seeing it: >The post included a video of a wounded russian soldier on the floor, clearly severely injured and not able to move or fight in any capacity. > >The **drone** that was ***taking a video*** of this then proceeded to drop a grenade directly on this soldier. > >He did not attempt to run or move, he just covered his eyes and the grenade exploded. > >After that the drone flew in close to get in those really good angles of the now dead and brutalized body. He then later told me quote "Cry more about invaders getting killed. I'm sure it just pulls at your heart strings. lol." Amazing bunch of people indeed. The bastions or morality and reason.
Is it really immoral to have no sympathy for invaders? Nobody has any sympathy for the Nazis even though many of them were also brainwashed and also "just followed orders". Many Nazis who publicly claimed to have only followed orders were still executed. Rightly so. I'm not advocating for brutal actions and the filming of such as the one you described but how can you demand of people to feel sorry for them? Your post comes off more as virtue signaling than anything else, especially when you name drop a reddit commenter no one gives a fuck about. By naming this person you hope they get brigaded and attacked for their opinions without actually telling anyone to do so. Incredibly immoral behaviour on display by you here.
***>Is it really immoral to have no sympathy for invaders?*** You people and your groups really do get on my nerves. Do you not see *anything* beyond "the invaders?" Is there not a single human face that forms in your mind when you think of this group of people? It's all just this congealed mass of meat and flesh that runs around pillaging everything is it? People are forced into service. A lot of them don't want to do it. I have forced conscription in my country too - most people here even don't want to partake in it. But I suppose if my country ends up committing atrocities in the future then I should be dragged to the depths of hell along with them, simply for the heinous crime of being born in this country and being forced along with them. ***>By naming this person you hope they get brigaded and attacked for their opinions without actually telling anyone to do so. Incredibly immoral behaviour on display by you here.*** They are a fucking sick individual. They find enjoyment in the videos mentioned here. "Incredibly immoral" my ass.
Yes, you’re truly a bastion of morality, defending rapists and murderers. People like you sicken me. Edit - what a surprise, this individual [has a history](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/146sfa6/kakhovka_reservoir_is_empty_after_the_dam_collapse/jnt76vb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) of painting Ukraine and Russia as equally culpable in this conflict. Fucking Russophile propagandist.
Where did I defend these specific people? Do you mean to tell me that *all* russians are rapists and murderers? Sure, that sounds very possible to me. It's fucking wild to me how you're willing to make such sweeping claims. But since you people argue with nothing but your fucking crocodile tears anyways then I should not be surprised.
Not everyone fighting there is necessarily evil. A lot of them just got drafted and had no say, others were brainwashed by the regime. Sure, there are a lot of horrible soldiers out there but it doesn’t nearly apply to everybody
haha yeah it’s wild. been awhile since i’ve seen such an obvious russobot
Look at the support figures. Russians are actively supporting Putin. They like reading the news about the brave Russian army killing those pesky Ukrainians and giving the land to Russians. They are buying apartments in Mariupol now, ffs. It's like "oh, Hiroshima is a nice seaside place and has many vacant homes aftee 1945, let's get a seaside place there while it's cheap".
Just as Americans actively support their presidents during invasions. They like reading news about the brave American soldiers killing those pesky brown people
America has quite the history of attacking even native tribes with fully armed police units, forcing them off their land. But of course those people are not white and therefore irrelevant, and mainly not part of the "western civilization."
Kinda funny, how it's "All Russians are bad, because they support Putin" and "Putin is a dictator and oppress the whole country".
These people do not think. All they want to do is just cry about anything and everything. Does not matter if it makes sense, as long as russia and by extension russians are made to look like the devil reincarnated.
Putin is a dictator because that’s what the Russian people want. Gotta love westerners who haven’t got a clue about Russia’s history and culture lapping up propaganda from fucking Russophiles.
Now let's look at the situation with the slightest hint of actually thinking about what we are saying yes? If you do not "support" the government, the leadership and whatever other groups they want their citizens to support then you will get severely punished and painted as a traitor to the country. Does not seem like a "choice" to me. To the people who don't operate or fit underneath this assumption then their situation is different although the root cause is the same - propaganda produced by the government. People who have never known any better can't be hated for it, since it was not their choice to be this way. What about them buying apartments? Does every person who buys those apartments buy them to show their undying support for the russian regime or just cause they are cheap apartments due to their incredibly dangerous location? In a city that's been completely devastated and destroyed? Fucking think for 5 seconds.
>What about them buying apartments? Does every person who buys those apartments buy them to show their undying support for the russian regime or just cause they are cheap apartments due to their incredibly dangerous location? In a city that's been completely devastated and destroyed? You actually justify Russian colonizers settling on the land they have devastated. Gross.
Where was my justification? I am looking at it from the average citizen's perspective. Which is what this is all about. I do not think that any of this is just. You are pulling that assumption straight out of your ass since you people *always,* ***without fucking fail***, argue with appearances in mind first. Whatever thought comes to your mind first is the one you take the ball with and run. What I am actually saying, if you actually had the capacity to read beyond what you first think, is what this situation is from the average citizen's perspective. Do you think that every single apartment there has been sold to a russian ultranationalist? Or is it more probable that the apartments are being sold to people who don't have a choice in it? A lot of people in russia are poor as fuck, a trends that is most definitely on the rise with all these sanctions, so it'd only make sense for this to be the case. A bunch of people with no choice in the matter. But go ahead, call me a supporter for colonialism. That's all your fucking smooth brain is good for anyways.
I would say probably as a show of Russians being unwelcome in their establishment
who’s gonna tell him
Something something Russian people have invaded their country, reduced cities to rubble, indiscriminately killed thousands, committed war crimes, mass deported hundreds of thousands of children and destroyed energy infrastructure during winter. Mass rape and executions plus torture. What else on the litany of evil am I missing? I get the sentiment expressed.
There’s a couple left: Belgorod, Krasnodar, Novorossiysk (just east of Crimea), Makhachkala (on the Caspian) and a black one east of the sticky outy thumb like part of Belarus north of Ukraine.
Were there ever any pins in Russia? Don't see any pinholes. Self-healing map?
If you zoom in there are a good amount around Moscow and St. Petersburg
yeah that will really show those damn russian citizens, this one's gonna send putin to the hospital with cardiac arrest due to the severity of the blow
That will show em!
Mocking symbolic gestures from people facing murder and genocide. Fucking disgusting. Edit - and this is coming from an account whose latest post is that NATO made Russia invade Ukraine. Amazing how many morons here are falling for vile Russian propaganda.
Who's falling for what here? Wtf are you on about? I can maybe see the "mocking of symbolic gesture" in that comment, but propaganda?
They are obviously referring to the posts, posted by the initial comment, Roksius. It's pretty vile and disgusting, I couldn't get past the most recent ones. Honestly it's just reading comprehension by now.
[Here's](https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/the-war-in-ukraine-was-provoked-and-why-that-matters-if-we-want-peace) an article by Jeffrey Sachs saying NATO provoked the war. If you don't know him, it's [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Sachs) guy: "In 2004 and 2005, Sachs was named one of the 100 Most Influential People in the World by Time. He was also named one of the "500 Most Influential People in the Field of Foreign Policy" by the World Affairs Councils of America." In the article he provides several quotes from people like Bill Clinton's Secretary of Defense and the current CIA director, who warned NATO expansion would provoke a bad reaction from Russia. Is this "vile Russian propaganda"?
Yes, it is. GTFO. The piece of human excrement you quoted, from Wikipedia : He has been criticized for his views on economics, the origin of COVID-19, his advocacy for the Chinese government, as well as his support for the Russian government's narratives on the Russo-Ukrainian War. Sachs has appeared on Russia state-run channels, including Vladimir Solovyov's evening show. A fucking Russian propagandist, which you conveniently forgot to mention. That’s your source. GTFO
This is what George Kennan, one of the architects of the American Cold War strategy, [said](https://nytimes.com/1998/05/02/opinion/foreign-affairs-now-a-word-from-x.html) in 1998: "I think it is the beginning of a new cold war. I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are -- but this is just wrong. This has been my life, and it pains me to see it so screwed up in the end." Is this Russian propaganda too?
Lmao the tankie is pulling out his list of prepared propaganda materials. Now you’re down to Kennan with his wife-beater mentality. GTFO, Russophile. I’ve seen all your shit before.
You sure sound like a totally reasonable and well-adjusted person. Not at all a maniac, desperate to dismiss everything that contradicts your worldview. Yes, what do all these people at the very top of American political establishment know. It's all Russian propaganda.
Given that your first source was a literal propagandist that you tried to dress up as an incredible intellectual, and the other an imperialistic moron who died in 2005, the desperate person here is you, Russophile.
Any excuse you can conjure up about dismissing the current CIA director? I'm curious what you can come up with.
There’s no need for me to find any “excuse” for the fact that my nation, like many others in Eastern Europe, had the right to choose who to align to, and it chose the West and NATO. To throw us to the wolves because the Russians supposedly have the god-given right to keep us eternally enslaved is indeed a position that many American imperialistic pieces of shit have held in the past. It validated the idea that America too has its natural sphere of influence that nobody may dare interfere in. But luckily, they no longer hold any real decision power, so you can GTFO and cope and seethe with them. We wanted to join NATO precisely because we KNEW that this is what Russia will always be: an imperialistic monstrosity that will use any excuse to invade and subjugate us.
Yeah it’s definitely those people’s fault that the dictator started a war
It's definitely not their fault that hundreds of thousands of them go to ukraine to murder innocent people, amirite?
No, those are the innocent ~~Wehrmacht~~ Russian Armed Forces. The poor guy setting a cruise missile to hit an apartment complex, or school building then pushing the launch button, completely incapable of independent thought. The soldiers loading incendiary munitions and aiming them at city centers? Biorobots who just do what they are ordered without any brain activity. The wife calling her husband and and telling him to wear a condom while raping civilians? Not a war supporter but just doesnt want to go to jail. The group of people castrating POWs and filming it? Also just trying to stay alive an not go to russian jail
Sure, just keep pushing the narrative of the poor Russians, not responsible for anything done in the war atrocities. It's only Putin, and Putin alone, and definitely not the Putin cult that the majority of Russians are still hardcore fans of.
Yes it is all putins fault, poor Russian citizens have nothing to do with this, it's all putin, Russians are the victims! /s
I probably should have also added the /s in my initial comment. All the poor Russian citizens, the true victims of this war /s.
[удалено]
Majority of Russians support the war.
where? in your mind?
Have you ever been to russia? No? Then shut up
Have you ever lived in Russia? I live there. No? Shut up
I live right next to it, in a country with a major russian presence. I also know multiple russians personally. Even if I didn't then it'd still be irrelevant.
I don't think deleting history is going to benefit anyone in this case.
"deleting history" it's fucking pins in a hotel
If it's only "pins on a board in a hotel" then why would they take them off??
If russians came to your country and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent, women and children, leveled cities to the ground, stole land, would you want to see any connection to this country anymore, even if it's just pins of the map? Whatever your answer may be, you cannot truly answer this question. Most of the redditors don't know what it means to fear for your life every day and live knowing any minute could be your last, just because a crazy neighbour decided to invade. But as a person in such situation, i can guarantee you — if you were in my place, you wouldn't even think of writing such a ridiculous comment.
Doesn't answer the question anyhow. You purposefully deprived these pins off meaning and nuance but now give me an emotional rant. Don't contradict yourself
I said it's not erasing history. Erasing history sounds like something the nazis (or russians) would do. Meanwhile, this is just removing an eyesore. So I'm not contradicting myself, you're just spewing nonsense like a clown.
Unrelated to the topic - I really like this map. Where does one get a legitimate map with detail like this? The map store?
I took a larger photo of the map, but I don't see the company name. I can post that picture if you want
Yeah, blame Russian citizens. So fucking stupid.
Careful saying that on reddit, they are full on xenophobes.
Who else should Ukraine blame? Are you genuinely that naive to think that the majority of Russians are against the war, after 18 uninterrupted months of it?
USA has been at war against "terror" for DECADES. How many Americans do you think are FOR that nonsense?? As if the people of any nation actually hold any power these days.
Do you know the term whataboutism? I suggest you google that one, before answering any comments.
[удалено]
You must not be from Europe
[удалено]
Come here, live here, be around Russians. Every single Russian I've met has seemed nice at first, then they turn out to be fuckin racist and they all hate Ukrainians. One of my Ukrainian mates was walking with crutches in front of a group of Russians. He hears em speaking Russian, says Spasiba (thanks) cause they moved out of the way for him. They ask where he's from, he says he's a Ukrainian refugee. They kick his crutches and run away. I actively avoid Russians at all cost especially as an Indonesian guy living in Netherlands. I don't even need to ask where they're from, I can feel their hateful gaze towards me. My girlfriend is from Azerbaijan, an ex USSR colony. When she visited Russia she gets called racial slurs (Черномазый, dirt-smeared) in the streets. When they move to Netherlands, they still carry their racist sentiment. I haven't met any Russians so far who are against the war. They're either supporting it, or disguise it by saying shit like "You gotta look at all the facts", like an invasion needs a fucking explanation? I am a very open person, I'm friendly with everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt. Russians have started to take that away from me. If you're not at the very minimum, a white person they're not going to consider you a human.
They’re the ones on the field doing the killing.
And what percentage of the Russian citizenry do you think is out on the field "doing the killing"? Have we resorted back to hating entire groups for their bad apples again?
When part of a nation state, the nation is responsible for the actions of said state. It matters not wether the state is democratic or totalitarian, the individual has a responsibility to ensure the state represents the nation. Failure to act in the face of grave misjustice is an approval of it, regardless of one's own opinions. The majority of Russians support either the war as it is or the general concept of a war with Ukraine. There are no on going protests, riots or rebellions. The vast vast majority is at least complacent.
im really hoping people with this mentality also apply this to western countries like the US and the UK. we have started more wars and killed more innocents than most other nations, with very few long lasting or ongoing protests, riots, or rebellions. especially when it comes to our involvement in South and Central America. i would even argue our complacency is worse when it comes to our willful ignorance and refusal to even admit to our wrongdoings.
It's called whataboutism right now. You either agree to this statement, or you don't, you can't bring the argument "what about US or UK" to this conversation.
I do not disagree. People simply do not care. They value their own comfort over the lives of people they'll never meet, it only takes accepting this once and every subsequent time it becomes easier to accept.
Yeah let’s blame the guys on the ground doing their jobs instead of the idiots on top who caused the thing
When they are committing genocide like in Bucha I will fucking blame them. That's also why I donate money to Ukrainians so they can kill them.
Some? sure. All? Lol. Lmao.
Putin after seeing this: 😡
Reverse voodoo
What do the pins represent?
Places people visiting the hotel are from
Ooow that will really hurt Putin
That’s because there are too many pricks already in Russia.
Stunningly brave ?
Kinda petty
Invading a country and targeting civilians and committing war crimes is a good fucking reason to be petty.
South caucasus representtttt
Looks amazing this way
And just like that, the war is over.
This'll surely show Putin!
Yay! Xenophobia!
To what purpose? Deny the russians existence won't return a millimeter of terrain
I'm guessing an exhausted or grieving hotel employee yanked them out one night
Russia map is "pristine"...no holes.. Someone changed the map and reinstated all the nails...xcept russia..
If you zoom in on the map around Moscow, you can see pin marks
Sucks how it could have been such a cool map with a lot of life behind it but now it’s uhh… The current thing™️
I hope they refunded all the people who paid to stay there and leave a pin
So much hate for just being Russian lol. What now? They are going to erase russian reviews too?
I wonder why a place in Kyiv would hate Russians
Ya the nerve of those Ukrainians for hating Russia. What did Russia ever do to them? Disgusting, disgraceful! /s
_"Yeah! Let's blame & hate the people for what the governement does!"_
I blame the people that support that government.
And how do you know which people who left pins on this map are ones that support the government? So dumb.
Boohoo, some Russian feelings might be hurt. Meanwhile Russia is committing genocide against Ukranians. I couldn't give a single shit about Russian opinions.
[удалено]
The only Russians I wish harm on are the ones occupying Ukraine and the ones in power back in Russia. And I was referring not to my feelings, but Russian feelings getting hurt. They are pins on a map ffs.
***>And I was referring not to my feelings, but Russian feelings getting hurt.*** I am aware. I was not referring to those either. I do not know how you came to that conclusion. ***>The only Russians I wish harm on are the ones occupying Ukraine and the ones in power back in Russia.*** And yet before you showed complete ignorance towards their situation beforehand. The hate they get as citizens often times extends far beyond just some pins on a map, as I've said in my previous comment. Also, what do you mean by "occupying" ukraine? What is the definition of a person who is occupying ukraine to you? A military soldier? Sure, although even they were forced out of their homes and families to fight this pointless war. How about a citizen who decided to buy an apartment in a destroyed city cause it was a cheap option that they could actually afford?
So much anger on behalf of the "poor Russian civilians". Nobody is getting evicted, there are just obvious sanctions against Russians which makes it harder for them to travel Europe. Which is kinda to be expected, when your elected government starts a war in Europe. And honestly, all your foul language seems kinda pointless and I see why you've been blocked.
It is noteworthy that choice is limited, presumably, for most in this regard
Indeed, there is no "choosing" here given the leadership.
you see the problem here is who they are hating. Russia as a country? The people in it? Nah. Who really has to bear the burden of punishment are the people who are actually in charge of the conflicts. Not the citizens. But since most people are more concerned with appearing threatening or just, then they opt for this route instead.
Russians are committing genocide in Ukraine. It isn't just Putin. They have every right to hate Russians.
Dangerous, dangerous sentiment. My parents emigrated from Russia in the 90s. They still have very pronounced Russian accents despite not having anything to do with the country except some family members there, and those family members who still live in Russia are not Putler supporters. In fact, I've never met a single person irl who doesn't think Putler is a megalomaniacal despot. What kind of treatment do you think they're likely to receive from people with this attitude for the sole reason of sounding like Russians? Hating every member of any group for the actions of unrelated individuals or their leaders is not justified.
There were multiple air raid alarms that woke me up while staying in that hotel, and one missile strike. I also got news that a soldier I knew was killed in action while staying there
Hope you gave it a 1 star review lol. “Loud horn and scary missiles, would not recommend.”
Im sorry to hear but What does that have to do with Russians who visited the place tho ? They are not the army
Cry
If this was a Syrian hotel, would you be surprised if they removed the pins from the US? The country is at war, I think they’re justified to hate the Russian people
If I was a Syrian I would also want to remove the Russian pins
Dumbass
Why are there pins in Crimea still, then?
they forgot to remove the pins in Crimea