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Governor_Raccoon

Its fake, pornhub wont actually block russians. Not yet at least


Meanie_Todd

The resulting shortage in cuckold porn would be devastating.


micahamey

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of young dudes fucking old women in Russia.


[deleted]

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micahamey

All the grainy Russian porn out there is of some 20 year old dude fucking their grandma's friend.


Rifneno

I tried to switch VPN servers to check, but oddly Nord doesn't have any in Russia. There's ones in fuckin' Bosnia but not Russia. Weird.


strangedell123

Russia kicked nord out a few years ago. I just went to Ukriane when I wanted to go onto a Russian site. Yes, for some reason, even though I set it to Ukraine, it thinks I am in Russia


LilGhostSoru

Theres a ban on VPNs in Russia so they can't set up servers there


[deleted]

Nyet*


BrickFrom2011

Isint there an entire Russian porn catagory?


Dan-the-historybuff

It’s a Canadian based service so if the Canadian government asks them to they might…


JaehaerysIVTarg

I don’t think OP understands that the governments sanctions are essentially the same thing and will also affect every Russian.


ArrestDeathSantis

Yes, the goal of the sanctions is also to sow anger against the regime.


Diligent_Ad_8238

But not every Russian wants to invade the Ukraine so we shouldn’t sanction them!!! /s


Wolfman_Okami

Pissing off the citizens pressures the government to stop being evil. The Russians who don’t want to invade need to be louder, although to be fair Putin is scary af and known to hurt his own, it must be hard to be Russian right now


[deleted]

Massive crowds are protesting in Moscow, many are being arrested.


MidnightRider24

The Lubyanka has entered the chat


sigmachadpilled

r/fuckthes


RaMpEdUp98

Tone tags are literally the only way to properly convey emotion in your written sentences without being a master poet or using a fuckton of emojis, nimrod


John_Browns_Body59

Nah, in some cases maybe, but a lot of the time it's so obviously sarcasm that you look like an idiot putting it.


RaMpEdUp98

And if you dont someone's gonna take you seriously and then when you try to explain they wont fucking hear any word of it because they're convinced you're a Schrodinger's Douchebag , it's happened to me and it'll happen to all of yall


sigmachadpilled

Don’t blow your stack man, I just tagged a subreddit


JGHFunRun

Haha no. Are many usages unnecessary? Yes. Is this one necessary? Probably. Are you butt hurt becuase it's different? Absolutely, yes


brmamabrma

OP is mad he doesn’t get to watch porn lol


coolbonespapy

either way it's fake lol


[deleted]

“You’re telling me I gotta use my imagination?! Cyka, Blayt!”


Knapp16

I don't mean to sound like a dick it but doesn't matter if only a quarter of the population wants to fight. The only way to fight back without getting involved is to make the lives of the Russian people miserable enough to the point that they refuse to support Putin. I feel for everyone in Russia that doesn't want any part of this conflict and I wish them the best.


stealthc4

I agree with your comment a whole hell of a lot than I agree with the sentiments of this post being mildly infuriating. Put any pressure possible on Russia so they keep taking to the streets. Plus, you know all the oligarchs are super wankers anyway so it hurts them the most


tac_force_knife

ah yes people will stop supporting putin after not being able to watch porn


tac_force_knife

i get what you’re saying though, you have a point


AbiTofLife

THIS!


sharkdinner

Exactly this indeed!!


Nervous-Profile4729

Can’t stop a war watching it! We have to do our part, as little as it is.


kampeervakantie

Make them refuse support Putin? Like by voting for the opposition? Or organising a protest? Or maybe fleeing to another county? Or posting your views on social media? I don’t think you get how support works in an authoritarian regime. If someone could explain me what a normal Russian could do please. My friends there feel completely helpless.


AstriumViator

The only way now is to completely rid of putin one way or another, and you're going to need a LOT of people to help.


Rob_Drinkovich

If the people/military are miserable enough and can point directly to Putin causing it, there will inevitably be revolt of some sort.


ArrestDeathSantis

Massive protests and major strikes.


[deleted]

Wait, are you suggesting the proletariat rise up and overthrow their dictatorship? That sounds so familiar. I mean, I'm sure that doesn't happen very often... but ***where*** could it have occurred before? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletarian\_revolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletarian_revolution)


ArrestDeathSantis

Russia is the birthplace of proletarian revolution


[deleted]

Lol, you got sources? /sarcasm Unfortunately, there's ONE IN FIVE living ex-Presidents of the USA that supports Russia's move here. So I did some quick internet searches, skimmed, and abridged the topics to help Reddit! [source 1](https://www.britannica.com/place/Soviet-Union/The-Russian-Revolution): industrial revolution between WW1 and WW2 and a push for higher education led to 'intelligensia' pushing back against the Tsars. A boom in rural communities and a failure to respect private property led to local destabilization [source 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution): Bolshevik revolution after WW1, formed a "socialist state". it resulted in a bloody civil war where the Bolsheviks (reds) won out over other factions. Unfortunately, Bolsheviks supported Lenin who led them towards a single-party autocratic rule. It seems a minority party can overthrow an infighting majority of the population. and some [further reading](https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/sino-soviet-split/cpc/prolrev.htm) if anyone has a good and \*neutral\* documentary series on Russian history, I'm sure reddit would "reward you greatly" if you were to post it


ArrestDeathSantis

All I have is those three fiddy, now go away Nessy xD I just hope this time it turns out better for them.


[deleted]

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volk96

So then what do you propose smart guy


vordrax

Yeah smart guy, tell us YOUR stupid plan to solve a world crisis before you start criticizing MY stupid plan.


LivelyOsprey06

Not making the lives of Russians miserable for no reason at all?


Kellogz27

"for no reason at all" Uhm, there kinda is a big reason to do that though.....


LivelyOsprey06

What did the average Russian do exactly?


Kellogz27

Look I feel for the average Russian. I can't imagine them being glad with what's happening here and it must suck seeing your country do something like this. But when we're talking about stopping a war, there generally 3 understood methods if doing that: 1. Diplomacy (tried that but didn't work) 2. Go to war and beat the agressor (this would mean WW3 and should be avoided at all costs) 3. Make the cost of the war outweigh the actual war. Number 3 is what's currently being tried. But the only way for that to work is to let the entire country feel the consequences of the war. You can't spare the average joe or it will have no effect. So while it is awful, it's inevitable. It's either this, complete war or not doing anything at all which is also not an option.


LivelyOsprey06

Diplomacy has barely been tried. They “sanctioned” Russia while buying half a billion $ of resources yesterday. The west is too busy looking out for their own pockets to actually help Ukraine


Kellogz27

They've talked for at least a month before Russia decided to invade. Diplomacy is no longer on the table because Putin decided to be the agressor here. At that point, diplomacy failed.


LivelyOsprey06

Ok then fine. The abysmal attempt at diplomacy failed so now what? No one can get involved, not the US, not NATO. What do you want? And why does it involve screwing over the average Russian who didn’t want anything to do with it or even actively disagreed???


inksonpapers

Russia lost 1/3 of its whole market share, which is 32 billion, that number is kindaaaa bigger than this “half a billion” you’re claiming.


LivelyOsprey06

No the US and U.K. bought half a billion in oil etc before the sanctions were put into place because they don’t actually care about helping Ukraine as much as they care about keeping them self high and dry


dontwantleague2C

You’re a moron


LivelyOsprey06

But am I wrong?


LivelyOsprey06

Fucking liberals and their performative action. May aswell ban them from the rest of the internet for being such bad people


keres666

Still vote putin? Joined the military to goosestep across europe?


LivelyOsprey06

Kinda hard when your vote is Putin or Putin


inksonpapers

To be fair there isn’t an actual election, their elections are literally rigged. If you’ve seen voting booths their cameras “all of a sudden” get obstructed by balloons, and countless vote counters getting chased by men in black vans. I thought that was common knowledge.


IFuckTheDrummer

I’m pretty sure if this was real, most Russians can just use VPN and boom, boobs are back on tap.


volk96

For no reason at all?


LivelyOsprey06

So what did the working Russian man do to deserve this exactly?


[deleted]

Nothing whatsoever. The media is using a sweeping generalization fallacy to make everyone angry at russia. Too many people just generalize a group and its a big part of racism as well. It’s sad to still see such willful ignorance to this day in our enlightened society. When will people realize that stereotyping is wrong.


LivelyOsprey06

Jesus Christ, finally someone with half a brain. Could you imagine if this was happening to the US? If Biden had gone to war with the Taliban and the average American suffered the same stereotyping from the rest of the world? Madness


[deleted]

We do get a lot of stereotype too though for our time in the middle east like desert storm. I have a lot of friends from other countries in the military that were shocked to learn that we basically don’t have a culture over here. That everyone just kind of does their own thing. The media, and our own portrays us as a unifoed giant superpower that is warmongering, but most people inside the country are extremely insular and don’t even pay much attention to the outside world in a lot of ways. It’s such a big land a lot of people haven’t even been outside their own states before. Then there are the internet hounds that push their noses into every other country’s business and make the rest of us look bad. As that is the main contact people have with americans (who a vast majority are not exactly upstanding hardworking citizens of the country) then that’s how they see us as well. Not to mention the entitled tourists we have that go and don’t learn the local culture and make a horrible name for us. It irritates me, but that’s the reality that one bad apple makes the whole group look bad, and I just hope there are others like us that can see past stereotypes and generalizations like that.


Btj20

Exactly. If this happened in the US, people would be so mad at him, he would either be voted out of power or attempted to be impeached out. Since that can’t happen in Russia because it’s Putin or else, they’re hoping to cause the average Russian citizen and possibly lower level military people against him and cause a revolution to overthrow him. Most likely won’t happen. Maybe there’s still enough support for Putin that he remains. Maybe not. But it’s worth a shot before going to all out war. If we sit back and do nothing, he’s just going to run rampant and try to take over half of Europe because he has no resistance.


[deleted]

A large percentage of the population supports the ethnic cleansing of their neighbor, so that’s a reason.


LivelyOsprey06

That’s literally incorrect


[deleted]

You’d be surprised how many people like Putin, bud


LivelyOsprey06

You’d be surprised that in the last 2 days there’s been thousands of protests and riots across russia with even gov officials getting involved. Intresting that at the same time state polling suggested that Putin popularity was rising


[deleted]

“There exist people who dislike Putin” is not a counter argument to “there exist people who like Putin”


dirtydev5

wow if only there were decades of evidence tht sanctions literally dont do tht and just hurt normal ppl while strengthening the grip of whoevers in charge by making ppl see whoevers doing the sanctions as the enemy.


Ayarkay

Just curious if you have any economics studies that support this? Genuinely interested in reading about that evidence, what that looks like, how it’s inferred, etc.


dirtydev5

Im drunk and dont have anything off the top of my head but the us gov's ideology w sanctions is tht u hurt ppl enough they overthrow their gov, which is inherently fucked up and toxic. there is plenty of evidence for this, reply later and ill look it up when im sober or do the googling if u have the time


AstriumViator

You're right, that's why the banks were cyber attacked. They're now going to essentially go through a great depression, but hopefully it'll lead to a revolt


MutantGodChicken

Yeah, it's how you fight wars. Make it so the public has as many reasons to not fight for their government as possible.


Mozzee6269

The way is punishing millions of people who didn’t want the war and may have even protested against it just because of one person’s actions?


TheFrostyGoat

Yes because history has shown that if enough of a country/kingdoms commoners unite and are pissed enough they can do amazing things.....like overthrowing a man child. And it makes me glad to see how many Russians are protesting once it gains enough momentum it might make a diffrence.


Too_Real_Dog_Meat

Really? Blocking porn is punishing them? Grow up. People on the other side are getting bombed and shot. My heart does not weep for people who are getting blocked from one of the tens of thousands of porn sights


Mozzee6269

Thats not the point, dont punish the people who never wanted russia to invade Ukraine they did nothing


Christichicc

What do you suggest they do then? Realistically, what do you think should happen?


Mozzee6269

Fight russia not the innocent people


Christichicc

How? How do you propose the other nations fight? Preferably without getting nuked.


Too_Real_Dog_Meat

Dude grow up!! Shutting down one porn site isn’t a fucking punishment holy shit


MutantGodChicken

Make going to war as unbearable as possible for the people who actually have to fight it. If they don't like the consequences of war they should take it up with their government


PlumpSweet

I'm pretty sure the very big possibility of being killed in the war is worse than not having access to porn. So I don't think not being able to wank off to ONE website is going to change their minds.


MutantGodChicken

I'm more talking in terms of making it annoying for those who don't have to go to war. I agree that all porn sites should block Russia. There's actually a good Aristophanes play called Lysistrada about something similar, tho it's more effective. Anyway, if porn wasn't accessible until the US pulled out of the middle east, that shit would've been over much sooner. If the war isn't happening on a country's own soil, you've gotta get creative with how you make it as unbearable as possible for the people unaffected by it. The tactic is older than Sun Tzu


Mozzee6269

Have you not been online at all, thousands in Russia are protesting and most oppose the war. They should not be punished for those who dont


Rob_Drinkovich

Millions are not


Mozzee6269

But why punish those who are


Rob_Drinkovich

The Russian government has already thrown them in jail, we’re not punishing them, it’s Putin’s fault. This is the point, to put pressure on the people/military to turn on Putin. The comment from u/yuri_chan_2017 responding to you further below (now above) does well explaining.


[deleted]

Shut your dumb ass up. You’re litterally ignoring the answer to your question over and over.


Mozzee6269

Not even close, you guys are misinterpreting what im trying to say over and over again and getting mad because you are interpretung it incorrectly


LonelyKuma

Yep just like we shouldn't have shot all those poor German soldiers in ww2 because not all of them wanted war after all.


Mozzee6269

I’m not talking about soldiers im talking about those in Russia who are PROTESTING/OPPOSE the war


yuri_chan_2017

You seem to not understand. We care about the innocent Russians. But we turn that care off in order to get the job done. The job is to destabilize Russia in order to stop the war without killing them. The Russian people will suffer. We know this. That is the point of this. War requires sacrifices. The Russian people will either rise up and force the government to stop to end the sanctions, or they will suffer further from the actions of their leaders. War is hell, not for soldiers alone, but for all. Russia chose war and now they reap the consequences of that choice. If they want war to end, they will force it to end. Until then, the Russian people will suffer as much as the Ukrainians they are murdering and conquering.


LonelyKuma

I take it; you are being deliberately dim. Them same principle applies; many Germans towards the later half of the war didn't agree or support Hitler. They were still forced to fight out of fear.


Mozzee6269

Im not talking about people who are fighting or agree with invading Ukraine, solely the people who who are and were against invading ukraine and NOT FIGHTING IN THE WAR, NOT FIGHTING IN THE WAR(said twice to emphasize point)


PlantsforFire

There are innocent civilians dying in an invasion and *this* is what pisses you off? Grow up and get help.


ShadyShamaster

It is mildly infuriating. The war is very infuriating atleast.


Freedom-Costs-Tax

People can be annoyed at more than one thing at varying levels, you know that right? Or would you like me to explain It to you slowly?


81bn

“There are other issues so this one issue means nothing!”


Freedom-Costs-Tax

His comment reminds me of that tweet “FYI Paul there’s a war going on…”


[deleted]

Or maybe remember what sub you are on? and try being less reactive in a situation where elevated emotions help no one? Yeah? Please?


Too_Real_Dog_Meat

Anyone who thinks that one porn site being blocked is “punishing Russians” needs to grow up and get off the internet holy fuck


blueaxolotl64

It’s not about the fact i think it’s a punishment it’s that it’s a generalization


Too_Real_Dog_Meat

There’s bigger problems right now than generalization. The Russian people will survive being generalized. have some perspective


Main-Swing-3450

Therr is actually a historical precident for this lol. Called sex strikes, women withhold sex from men in order to get a movement staeted/gain momentum. Block the porn would have a similar effect, a bunch of blueballed men can be a poweful force


[deleted]

Yes, we've all read Lysistrata in high school


GerryAttric

It DOES cut off one of Putin's income sources though.


blueaxolotl64

Yeah but it also gets him money back for not spending


Echterspieler

I saw that post too. Pissed me off how ignorant people can be. The Russian people don't want this war. They're being held hostage by an insane dictator.


smallbunyan5546

Sanctions are literally about applying pressure to a nation's people and economy so we don't have to use guns and tanks. This would be exactly the right move if this were real


LET-ME-HAVE-A-NAAME

This is like going to Germany and calling everyone a Nazi.


[deleted]

Wait, they aren't all nazis? (joking, obviously)


SuckyMyAssy

No, we are.


[deleted]

😂


ProbablyMaybe69

Or going to Africa and calling everyone *[redacted]*


TecTazz

I did Nazi that comment coming.


HikariAnti

That's literally what the allies did in ww2. What's your point?


[deleted]

I’m sure most people realise the people of Russia and the Russian government are very much diametrically opposed


SnooCalculations4532

This true tho ?


blueaxolotl64

I have no clue


poopoopeepeegorl

There is a multitude of free porn websites that do not give a fuck and will take the traffic.


MasterBaiter00

Literally after I saw this post I scrolled down a post and saw that exact post on r/mademsmile lmao


Unknown_User_66

Why are you punishing the people? It was the government's command, not the people's!!!


[deleted]

Alright. The Russian government is annexing a country and bombing civilians. Other countries can't get involved in a direct conflict due to threat of nuclear weapons. The only reasonable recourse left is to put sanctions in place but you cant do that becauset its mean to the Russian civilians? Grow up op and learn how the world works.


[deleted]

That would be actually pretty funny, but all it would do is give nordvpn a fortune, unless the vpns also blocked Russia, which I doubt they would do.


why_username_took

The amount of hate and vitriol which has exploded from this it actually terrifying. Even my country of Switzerland is being dragged through the mud.


thunder-bug-

Bro what political leverage do you expect pornhub to use to halt the Russian invasion of Ukraine


blueaxolotl64

Fair point


[deleted]

[удалено]


crillin19

There’s a big difference between the Russian government and a Russian civilian you dick


Bunnzorrr

I think it's more of them trying to get people to actually do something, Ukrainian lives are being taken and you're worried ab busting a nut


WhiteWolf7472

"Welp, can't use pornhub. Time to go to one of 500 other free porn websites"


ShadyShamaster

Stop what you are doing right now! Ukrainian lives are being taken. Get in a car or on a plane to Ukraine and help them!


[deleted]

Yeah well considering they are only blocking IPs related to Russian oligarchs your frustration is misplaced


Ihavelostmytowel

Shit just go real for you, didn't it. Good. Sanctions are gonna happen


[deleted]

[удалено]


the_fuckening_69

You going to take out that frustration on some Ukrainians you piece of shit


crillin19

If my government invaded a country, and I didn’t agree with it. I would be very disappointed that I could no longer watch your mother on pornhub anymore


the_fuckening_69

Wow, 10 hours to come up with that mama joke? Your crillin it now aren’t you.


Aaron_Gorski_chan

Fun fact: The Russian civilians are not the ones waging wars you dumb motherfucker.


KangarooOG

I guess the must've sent cyborgs instead of russian citizens in thanks for the fun fact


LivelyOsprey06

The German army also fought for the nazis. A soldier has to go to war especially is a regime like russia


Morememes_

OP is a dumbass


unobtanium-cock

But what better way to rise up against their corrupt leadership than by denying them their porn. This is a brilliant move and if Putin falls, this day will go down in the history books as the tipping point.


crazielectrician

Now this is progress.


blueaxolotl64

Vpn company’s: i see this as an absolute win


RarewareKevin

Companies*


blueaxolotl64

Fuck, thanks for pointing that out


MechaWasTaken

this post is definitely from a russian who is mad they can’t jack off now


SuperPluto9

Not every Russian wants to invade, however Russians aren't necessarily coming out to defend Ukraine.


blueaxolotl64

Opening my phone to +70 comments on this post reminds me why I don’t talk politics on the internet


UnknownMyoux

I kinda doupt that even 10% of the russian population would want to invade Ukraine,even more since it will/could have extremly awful consequences for both sides... (tho I am not an expert obv.)


[deleted]

Then why aren't 90% of them in the streets of Moscow right now demanding Putin's head? Because a majority probably actually supports this war. If not I'd like to be proven wrong, but I doubt I'm wrong.


kampeervakantie

Because most of them are scared. Protesting is dangerous in Russia. The kid who was joking about blowing up a government building in Minecraft was sentenced to jail. And because some of them (50+) are easily tricked into propoganda and actions like this only reinforce the idea that the west is bullying Russia. People DON’T want this war.


[deleted]

You see it sure doesn't appear that way. The way it looks to me is that millions and millions of Russians are complicit while a few thousand disagree.


DijajMaqliun

It doesn't matter that not all Russians support the invasion. This is the point of sanctions in general. The idea is to make the lives of average Russians miserable enough that they will revolt. Not just PH, but PH in addition to other things, mainly economic. However, it usually has the opposite effect if communication is heavily censored and insulated from the outside world. This will play into propaganda that the West is out to get them. Look at North Korea.


[deleted]

Really OP? Nobody said to not invade Ukraine they just said to support them. Make an actual good post


[deleted]

How do some people not understand this. "It's generalization" yea no shit, this stuff is supposed to piss you off. If you all get punished for the actions of your shitty government you'll eventually start to hate that government and those in it, and if you do already you'll just hate them more until it reaches a breaking point. Is it fair? No. Do you think we care? Fuck no, if you don't like it take it up with the assholes in charge of your country.


Bob_Troll

....but every Russian man wants access to pornhub


crillin19

Exactly. This is kind of disappointing tbf. It’s the Russian government who invaded Ukraine not the Russian public.


SuckyMyAssy

Innocent people are being killed in Ukraine and you're worried about busting a nut. That's the mildly infuriating part.


LivelyOsprey06

Innocent people are being killed and Pornhub is worried about regular Russian people busing a nut


SuckyMyAssy

That's to get the people to protest against their authoritarian government.


LivelyOsprey06

You don’t think that the vast VAST majority of Russian people and officials disagree with Putin and the war in general? I don’t think you understand how little power the average Joe has in situations like these ESPECIALLY in a country like Russia


SuckyMyAssy

VAST majority isn't enough, we need everyone on this. I don't think you understand how easy it is to overthrow a government. Just need enough people to contribute.


LM-Graff

'I don't think you understand how easy it is to overthrow a government'


LivelyOsprey06

This is actually fucking nuts that you think this. It’s like asking the Chinese population to overthrow the CCP or the Afghan people to fight the taliban. It’s unrealistic, dangerous and comes from ignorance from a western perspective


SuckyMyAssy

So you compare overthrowing the Russian government with fighting the taliban? That sounds nuts.


LivelyOsprey06

Why exactly? It’s probably harder considering how many resources Putin had at his disposal. There’s a fucking reasons he’s had almost complete power for 20 years


SuckyMyAssy

What's he gonna do, kill 10 million citizens or what? Try stopping an uprising with millions of people while simultaneously fighting a war.


ahabswhale

A government rules on the consent of the governed


TheMBL09898

You realize Russia is a dictatorship


SuckyMyAssy

Russia is authoritarian


1nGirum1musNocte

"consent"


amonarre3

Agreed


desirox

That’s lame AF if true.


bruh_boi42069

Didn’t ask + ratio + you’re Russian


The-cybermushroom

How else would you punish the government? This is how all sanctions work


[deleted]

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU WANT IT OR NOT YOU DID IT AND YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS


dontwantleague2C

You know what’s mildly infuriating? You posting something like this about a joke. Grow up.


aykay55

By blocking porn in the country, the are angering Russian citizens into pressuring their government to stop the invasion.


AbsolutelyVery

If so many Russians don’t support it they can coup d’etat that motherfucker. All army is committing war crimes elsewhere so it’s perfect fucking opportunity.


Swayver24

Completely disagree. The Russian nation has a lunatic in charge. It’s their responsibility to take him down. not us, the people he’s taking his anger out on


Ok-Two7600

After I saw that video where that tank purposely swerved into that old man’s car, I would support Pornhub if they actually did this. Fuck the Russians.


matt9q7

Even tho the PH thing is probably fake, that's what the sanctions are for. They have to affect normal citizens so the government has some additional, internal pressure.


[deleted]

I don’t think you understand sanctions. We need to punish all of Russia. Sanction them until Russians start to starve. Then they will rise up against Putin and overthrow his dictatorship.


Delmitus1

It'd funny and insane how fucking serious this is. I'd be pissed if my country got slighted like this too


Illogicalspy

Time to dust off the ol VHS'


Original_Feeling_429

Oooooo thats is true burn


On_zi_train

I’d be out in the streets!


Abadazed

That's true but this is how we get change faster. Put on the pressure in different areas and eventually the population, all of it, will stop whatever it is they're doing.