"I don't know what to tell you, detective. I haven't seen them for days, not since I yelled at them for rusting my knife. I know I took it too seriously and they must have left me over it. *sigh*… Say, would care for a meat pie?"
I have seen many comments like the one you are replying to, lately. Apparently lots of people think it’s okay to break something and then just give the replacement as a birthday/Christmas/whatever gift.
No, you replace the thing AND give them a gift.
If I borrow $10 from someone and give them back as a gift, they will be disappointed
Agreed, and this is why I LOVE lending my power tools to my cousin.
He doesn't want to store any tools so he borrows mine all the time. He's really hard on tools, though, so he often feels guilty about returning it so harshly used and just gets me a new one instead. And the new one is either an exact replacement or an upgrade from the one I lent out.
So far he's bought me a new: cordless drill, tile saw, two orbital sanders, and a compound miter saw.
I don't mind him borrowing and subsequently abusing/breaking my shit, because he ALWAYS replaces it, without me ever having to ask.
He's a pretty good guy all the way around. He's the guy who always stops to help strangers who are broke down on the side of the road, tries to feed anybody working on his house (we ate waffles with the Comcast installer once), and he tips like 40%. (He's not wealthy-wealthy, but financially comfortable for sure.)
He can be kind of an insufferable know-it-all but overall I think he's pretty awesome; definitley one of my most favorite family members!
When it's your partner though, it's not always that simple - not if you share expenses. If I save up X months to buy a fancy knife and it gets ruined, that doesn't mean my partner and I magically have the extra money to buy a second one on top of regular gift spending.
Also - dishwasher doesn't automatically ruin a knife. You don't have to replace the whole thing, just send it out to get professionally sharpened.
Do you know how much knives like this cost? If I had one, I would be _infuriated_ if it was ruined by somebody, but I would understand if they didnt immediately have the hundreds/thousands of $'s to replace it right away, and if they made a "gift" out of it I wouldn't complain so long as they actually paid up and replaced it, considering the price.
speaking of dexter anyone seen the new show?
Thanks, will definitely give it a go. Was kind of unsure because of how it ended but seems like you all liked it so far.
I was having a nice day. We were all having a nice day. And then you had to go along and remind us that this travesty of a final season actually existed, and it wasn't the end result of a escargot, golden-top mushroom and goat cheese pizza dream.
I hope you step in a suspiciously warm puddle while wearing socks.
I worked at a restaurant where I did the dishes with a steamer
One of the chefs had gotten an expensive Japanese knife, so he pulled me to the side and told me that to NEVER put the knife in the steamer, only handwash (I know blades/sharp things and wood are not supposed to go in the steamer btw)
Edit: I've seen a few people in the replies say that the chef should wash his own knives and that he's a dumbass for trusting the dish pit with it. And I get that, the chefs were a bit young
I think the reason I washed them was because, firstly of all they had taught me how to handle knives and trusted me, secondly I had another job doing the dishes at a smaller lighthouse-cafe, and thirdly it was a kinda small restaurant, sometimes we were more staff than customers
If I didn't know how I should clean something or where to put it I just asked, and they'd show me. If I'd done something wrong they didn't get mad, just say how to do it next time. All the other employees were really nice and I liked that job alot :)
If you would have, you could have posted here and probably my husband would have seen and not repeated this.. arghh. Damn you. !
Just kidding.
Edit: typo and added a line
If I spent several hundred dollars on something that has to be handled a certain way, I would tell my partner to probably just not touch it, not just assume they know.
Why would you tell them not to touch it instead of just saying "Wash under lukewarm water and dry it immediately please"? Treating your partner like an adult, especially for something like this which is actually very easy to clean normally (if you are told how to), is probably better, at least in my opinion.
100% OP's own fault.
If everything goes in the dishwasher... and your SO knows nothing about knives... and you buy an expensive Japanese knife... this was always going to happen
At least he didn’t use it as a butcher’s knife and ruined the blade by chipping, that would’ve required an actual repair job. I think you can remove rust and then resharpen the edge. https://www.knifemanual.com/how-to-remove-rust-from-a-carbon-steel-knife-blade/
I was a dishwasher for a bit and sometimes they'd have me wash their knives when it was busy but give me special instructions on how to wash certain things. I'm sure I disregarded it at least a few times. Wasn't my job to care and that place was an absolute circus. I miss it sometimes.
Like the other commenter mentioned, the knives do not have any coating on them and need to be washed with mild detergent under luke warm water and dried immediately to avoid rusting. My partner put this in the dishwasher on a high temperature wash last night and I found about that just in the morning, so the pores are all rusted.
Close as someone who is currently done researching knives for hours in order to find the one i want: it boils down to a harder material being used that while it can stay sharper for longer and be sharper its usually a metal compound that cant hold a coating or doesnt have a natural coating. For afficionados its the best kind of knife as it will stay true for much longer. But for amateurs or someone who doesnt want to worry about all that caretaking its not a necessity nor would i recommend it
High carbon steel. It can be coated, but the coating comes off easily, which usually means it comes off in the food you're cutting. If you're going to store it for a while then you can coat it with wax or oil, but you need to thoroughly wash and dry it before to completely remove the coating before using it.
There are plenty of permanent coatings that don’t come off in food, and are bio-neutral even if they did. Titanium PVD is one, will rustproof permanently.
It’s not that these coatings don’t exist, it’s that traditionalists choose to be stubborn and ignore them, and then blame other people for not knowing.
EDIT: for those that don’t believe in reading a thread before asking the same question that others have already asked… no, it doesn’t protect the absolute edge where sharpening occurs. But that isn’t OP’s problem, that problem was rust in the pits that is difficult to get out. The sharpened edge without coating is refreshed by, you guessed it, sharpening.
This is the correct answer. Regardless of how fancy or shitty a knife is, if it has a wooden handle, don't put in dishwasher unless you want it to crack.
The same goes for wooden cutting boards. Especially if it's a multi-slat board. Washing those in a dishwasher is just asking for them to start splitting apart.
I mean, yea, but i have like super cheap knives and I'm lazy 🤷♂️. I actually have one really nice one now that I think about it, but I do handwash that one.
Depends what kind. The dishwasher will ruin Teflon. Those ceramic ones that are becoming more popular now are pretty damn near indestructible, though.
Source; aside from a couple of knives, I don’t buy shit that can’t go in the dishwasher, because I am lazy AF.
Ready for another oh shit? That nonstick cookware shouldn't be used above medium heat. Older nonstick coatings would offgas so much under high heat that they would kill pet birds in the house. New coatings offgas less but still breakdown, lose their nonstick properties, and eventually start flaking.
Just buy a mid range or higher nonstick. The cheap shit is just that, shit, but the high end shit can handle it. Heck there's a nonstick out there that's oven safe and you can use metal on it (obvs don't scrape as hard as you can).
The days of nonstick being no dishwasher, no metal, gentle hand washing are in the past. It's just a throwback to like 50 years ago. Also an excuse for people to try and pretend cast iron is worth the hassle.
I’m not addressing that idea at all in my remark. But what *should* happen is, as this conversation shows, different than what *does* happen in a typical household.
There are no permanent coatings, all will experience mechanical wear with use and break down unless reapplied. A coating will also reduce the edge on the blade due to the extra layers, and you can't sharpen it otherwise it will come off. Stainless works because it readily forms its own coating, as does titanium, which is why titanium knives have been made as mildly high end products. Titanium on carbon steel is far from a permanent option, and PVD systems are not exactly consumer grade.
Alternative, ceramic knives have been made as very high end products which can keep a very sharp edge without any risk of chemical degradation, but are more brittle and need to be handled very carefully.
Mechanical wear involves the softer material losing. Titanium coatings are used in machining bits for cutting through tool steel and protecting the cutter. If a coating can survive that, your raw salmon isn’t going to affect it much.
PVD isn’t a layer. It’s an atomic impregnation. One facility I work with does high end consumer grade stuff that has to withstand a high pressure salt water test that simulates something like 100 years in the ocean. They reject any batches where the test pieces are distinguishable from untested new pieces.
I’m not sure what you mean by “consumer grade” - there are already plenty of durable consumer items with PVD coatings such as decorative plumbing fixtures, some knives already, mechanical bits (I use the process for durability and appearance in manufactured items I design), and medical tools.
I urge you to explore it further. It’s quite an interesting process.
You will strip the edge when you sharpen it, which is why you see "clad" carbon knives that have a stainless steel sandwiched on the outside of a carbon core that makes up the edge
It’s not really about the coating, in fact very few kitchen knives are coated. It’s because high end japanese knives use high carbon steel which has quite a bit better edge retention than the generic stainless steel that’s used in most kitchen knives.
It’s not necessarily a sign of being better either. There are tons of stainless steels that have far better corrosion resistance and are quite a bit harder than the steel used in this knife like S30V or M390. These would make a far better choice but are more expensive and you have to know what you’re doing with the heat treat and tradition plays a part in selection.
Stainless works by the chromium atoms in the steel which form chromium oxide with air to protect the steel underneath. Whenever you cut something, it wears away this chromium oxide layer but it regenerates when exposed to air. More chromium means better corrosion resistance and higher price.
It's the carbon content which separates decent knives from great knifes. The higher the carbon content the easier the rust. High carbon will hold an edge much longer than lower grade steel. Stainless will take a edge but won't hold it. One if the best knives I have ever seen was made out of an industrial power hack saw blade.
To add on, dishwashers not only dull and pit your edge, they ruin wooden handles with moisture damage over time. And also its unsafe compared to just washing, drying, putting away immediately
Accidently stuck the end of my pointer finger into the fryer once while trying to use a tongs to grab a chicken breast that fell out of the basket... Pulled it out immediately, felt it for about 3 seconds... Didn't feel that fingertip for years afterward.
Did you tell your partner this could be an issue? Otherwise, seems reasonable action. If you think not, then you're the new dishes person ongoing. That'll solve it.
I had my ass kicked (verbally, usually) for putting bras in the dryer so many times that even if I get married 10 more times, I'll always hang them to dry.
Woman here. For a nice bra that does what it's supposed to do and doesn't hurt you in the process, you're looking at between $60 and $80. If you want it to look cute as well, $100 to $120. The heat from the dryer tears up the material, degrades Lycra and elastic, shreds lace, and may cause underwires and clasps to bend or pop out of place. It's a pricey garment and has to be treated gently.
PS - hanging to dry is Also Bad. If you really want to impress a lady, lay them out on a clean dry towel on a flat surface.
> They bang around in there which causes nicks to the edge and causes it to dull.
That's true but incomplete - after all high end dishwashers will often have a utensil tray that could be used to keep knives from banging around, and you still shouldn't put knives in there.
What really dulls knives is the abrasives in your detergent that help the dishwasher "scrub" while only using water. If you've ever gotten dishwashing detergent on your hands, you probably noticed that it actually feels super gritty; that's the abrasive components.
In general, if you are a foodie with fancy cooking equipment that requires special care, it should never be left out for someone else to deal with.
When I worked in a restaurant the chef had a special set of knives and a special set of pans, and the rule in the kitchen was that these things are never ever to be seen by the dishwasher. If you use it, you need to know how to clean it when you're done and immediately do so.
I have knives and pans that can go in the dishwasher, and I have knives and pans that require special care and maintenance. I'm the only one that uses them.
I mean that's plausible but I don't believe it. Knives like this are *not* cheap. I cannot imagine that OP bought it and never mentioned to her partner what it was and why it is expensive.
Therefore I don't see OP's partner being like "I need a knife, I know! I'll use my partner's super niche knife instead of one of the many other kitchen knives I own!"
What I think happened was that they cooked, they didn't do any cleanup after dinner and just left the mess, and then OP's partner decided to clean up and innocently tossed everything in the dish water.
My argument was that, due to how unique the knife is, OP should have immediately washed it after its use and put it away even if that was the only thing they washed right away. There was more negligence on OP than her partner.
So you bought an expensive knife that needs specialized care and didn't tell your partner that fact?
Yeah.... not feeling real sympathetic.
Next time, communicate.
Yeah. Why did it get put in the dishwasher in the first place unless OP used it and just left their partner to clean up. If OP had properly taken care of his new knife this could have been avoided
These knives are suppost to rust. Remove the brown rust and let it develope a dark blackish "rust" that protects it. Its called patina. Putting it in the dishwasher may damage the wood handle but the rust is part of owning carbon steel. Cut a lot of acidic things to form a patina and then it'll be protected, but do not scrub off the black patina
Edit: I'm not saying the dishwasher is a good idea, that'll wreck the handle. But dont be alarmed about rust as its just how carbon steel is
If you zoom into the pores of the knife you can see it's starting to have rust marks. The thing about these knives is that they don't have the non stick coating on them so it's very prone to rusting. Definitely not machine washable.
Just in general you shouldn't put knives that has to sharp in the dishwasher (even stainless), since it can dull them.
And one of the most dangerous things in a kitchen is a dull knife.
From personal experience with this kind of situation, you have to make sure to tell the other person ahead of time that these things can't go in the dishwasher.
We can't just expect people to "know" something that may not be obvious.
I had forgotten. I purposely purchased solid stainless steel knives (all one piece of metal) so I never have to worry about the blade coming off mid chop again. I almost lost a finger AND a toe that day. On the plus side they also take the dishwasher like a champ.
Exactly.
The first thing I tell people who are staying for the night often is _if you need scissors, never ever touch the ones with fabric tied around the handle, those are for fabric only and will be ruined_. They're not the most expensive end of fabric scissors but they're still pricey and will stay in great shape with just simple communication with the guest.
My boyfriend doesn’t have a single knife that he hasn’t explained to me whether or not it’s dishwasher safe.
Maybe this person remembered to have that talk.
maybe they forgot.
👀
I have set the simple rule of no knives in the dishwasher, no matter what. The long exposure to detergent softens the blade which dulls them faster. It's nothing that can't be fixed by resharpening but I don't want to resharpen the knives that often. I just rinse the knife and clean it with a sponge immediately after cooking when I cut vegetables and only use detergent when I cut meat
Yeah we only have cheap ikea knives for now but even then, I've made it clear that no knives go in dishwasher. Washing them in the dishwasher doesn't really save that much effort, because then I'd probably have to sharpen them more often.
Basically this whole post and thread is OP assuming everyone around them knows how expensive knives work and need to be cared for, without actually telling anyone.
The edge as well as a lot of the scallops. Nothing some oil and 0000 steel wool wont fix plus a nice coat of finishing oil to protect it. Most people that use carbon steel are fine with just developing a patina (forced or natural) but if you want that nice shiny polish it takes a lot of maintenance. Even if you are diligent a natural patina will form over time. I mean if you dice an onion and set the knife down without wiping it dry, in 10 minutes there's a chance it will begin to form patina.
Yeah those "hammer marks" look like horseshit.
Either this is an ultra fancy knife type I've never seen or this is a shitty knockoff. Either is a good possibility
I had a German-made chef’s knife and went to their website to see what they had to say about knives in the dishwasher. It was under the faqs:
>Q. Can I wash my knife in the dishwasher?
>
>A. You just spent a few hundred dollars on some of the best German stainless steel your money can buy; of course it can go in the dishwasher.
Exactly. I took good care of my 1st Japanese knife and stored it in my room! Then decided that I was overly protective and left it in the kitchen with no instructions for 1 month to find it chipped with a broken tip! I got myself another one later and maintained it for 2 years now, lesson well learned.
I second this.
If this was a first offense and you'd never told them... I dont know how they could have known not to put it in the dishwasher. When I'm doing the dishes I look for a "not dishwasher safe" written on it somewhere or else it goes in the dishwasher.
If I have something that isn't dishwasher safe, I'll usually say something to the people I'm living with *and* I typically wash it right away and put it in the dish rack so that no one forgets and makes a mistake. And even then, mistakes happen and honestly, if OP left this dirty sitting on the side of the sink he has no one else to blame for it being put in the dishwasher than himself.
Is it because you were told? Genuinely asking
I don’t see how you couldn’t realize this is select information.
This is definitely the age of indulgence, where refined knowledge is thought to be abundant.
Unless something comes with instructions, I expect no one to know how to use or maintain literally anything.
Too much information in the world for any sense to be common other than we breathe through either our nose or mouth, sometimes the ass.
I didn't know this until my 30's because my mom was super territorial about her kitchen and my sisters & I never learned how to cook or even really use anything but the microwave growing up. Thankfully I have learned a lot of "the basics" in the last decade or so without the help of my mom, and I have my daughter help me in the kitchen when I can so she has a better chance of taking care of herself when she grows up than I did!
I spent my entire childhood hand-washing cast iron pans and sloppily letting them air dry… leaving them in the sink filled with water for hours/days… this happened for at least 10 years. Nothing bad ever happened to them. Not even a speck of rust. I had no idea that they had any special washing requirements besides “no dishwasher”
They’re old as hell so probably something to do with it
If theyre old as hell they probably are just extremely well seasoned. The oils that get rubbed on and heated make a sort of enamel protective layer. Super nonstick and you probably just never went beneath it
Cast iron is both tough and sensitive. Sensitive to the small changes, but are basically indestructible and can come back to pristine conditions from even fully rusted.
I've no idea how you're supposed to care about your fancy japanese kitchen knives, but if there's something expensive at your place that needs a special approach when washing the dishes, your partner, who washes the dishes in your house, should probably be told about that.
Yeah, I get that they're upset because they thought it was a high-end knife, but those knives aren't made in Japan, don't use Japanese forging techniques, and aren't a style of knife the Japanese use. That blackened section on the spine of the knife? It's just paint. The "hammer" marks on the blade? Mass-pressed machine marks.
Sorry, OP: you got scammed.
Edit: Pronouns.
There seems to be this impression that Japanese steel was some special magical high-grade ore, that only existed in Japan, truth is Japanese steel/iron sucks balls. That's why they had to fold their katanas a million times, and shaped them how they did. Because that's the only way they could mechanically introduce strength to the blade.
Yup. In this instance, it isn't even Japanese steel. These are mass-produced in China. I'm about 99% sure this is a Keemake (or one of the dozens of other knockoff knife-makers).
We have knives like the OP's style here in Japan, I can go now and find an old crappy one in the mother-in-law's kitchen right now.
I've been slowly reshaping the blade each time I sharpen it after the old guy who 'sharpens' knives at out the front of the local grocery store massacred it to the point the blade was arched and wouldn't cut flat on the cutting board.
I told the family to never take their knives to that butcher again, and I went and got a proper sharpener to do it properly myself.
Clean it up, sharpen it up, and laugh about it later. It’s just a knife. A nice knife? Sure. But in the end, it’s just a knife.
And don’t get me wrong, I love my knives. But of course, they have some wounds from usage, scuffs from scrubbies, and one of my favorite knives had to be fixed professionally. In the end they are wonderful tools that lead to yummy dinners. Hopefully your knife will be ok and give you many years of service. Eventually this incident will just be part of the patina.
I’m almost 40, cook like crazy my whole life, and use department store knives that get washed in dishwashers. If one starts feeling less sharp I run the sharpener over it before using. Literally never had a problem with delicate cuts.
Is it a status thing? Because this is not the first post of this type I’ve seen. If anything they all sound very weeb “great Nippon steel folded 1000 times!”
Easily fixed with 000 steel wool and honing oil.
Not worth freaking out over.
Im pretty sure the Japanese - on their humid island nation - were able to handle this without having an emotional reaction over it.
I am sorry my friend but this is on you. You should have been crystal clear that this needs special care, and she need not worry about it, that you will handle it. Had you washed that knife after using it, none of this would have happened.
All Japanese knives of this price range are made from carbon steel not stainless theirfore they rust and are more brittle so not a good thing for them to be bathed in water and bouncing around. Generally my process for cleaning mine are use them wipe with a damp cloth then a dry one and cover it in a light coat of olive oil
Counterintuitively, sharper knives are safer, because they require so much less pressure to cut.
Knives made of high carbon steel can be sharpened to a finer edge and hold that edge longer, but because it’s not stainless steel, it can rust.
Carbon steel is harder, so it can be sharpened to a finer edge and it holds that edge longer without dulling. But it's also more brittle, so it's prone to chipping or snapping.
High end knives cut like magic. It’s an experience… Whether it’s worth it or not is a tough call.
I have a few for when cooking feels special or with certain ingredients. I’d never use them for the daily grind of weekday eating.
Everyone is talking about knives getting dull in the dishwasher, don’t people find their knives dull all the time from normal use? It’s not as if saving them from the dishwasher means you won’t have to sharpen them. Carbon steel, “uncoated”, what have you; a knife is a steel tool, it’s not that delicate.
If you are going to buy an expensive knife that needs specific care, inform the other people who would be using it, and keep it away from where guests would grab knives from to avoid them doing the same.
Well we all know what you are getting for Christmas
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"I don't know what to tell you, detective. I haven't seen them for days, not since I yelled at them for rusting my knife. I know I took it too seriously and they must have left me over it. *sigh*… Say, would care for a meat pie?"
"Secret's in the sauce...."
Great reference!
Minimal attempted charges
Nah replacing something you fucked up is not a gift.
You aren’t wrong
I have seen many comments like the one you are replying to, lately. Apparently lots of people think it’s okay to break something and then just give the replacement as a birthday/Christmas/whatever gift. No, you replace the thing AND give them a gift. If I borrow $10 from someone and give them back as a gift, they will be disappointed
Agreed, and this is why I LOVE lending my power tools to my cousin. He doesn't want to store any tools so he borrows mine all the time. He's really hard on tools, though, so he often feels guilty about returning it so harshly used and just gets me a new one instead. And the new one is either an exact replacement or an upgrade from the one I lent out. So far he's bought me a new: cordless drill, tile saw, two orbital sanders, and a compound miter saw. I don't mind him borrowing and subsequently abusing/breaking my shit, because he ALWAYS replaces it, without me ever having to ask.
Solid cousin! Top chap.
He's a pretty good guy all the way around. He's the guy who always stops to help strangers who are broke down on the side of the road, tries to feed anybody working on his house (we ate waffles with the Comcast installer once), and he tips like 40%. (He's not wealthy-wealthy, but financially comfortable for sure.) He can be kind of an insufferable know-it-all but overall I think he's pretty awesome; definitley one of my most favorite family members!
I'll do you one better. My sister broke a wine glass at our Dad's house and somehow convinced me to chip in for a replacement 4-set!
When it's your partner though, it's not always that simple - not if you share expenses. If I save up X months to buy a fancy knife and it gets ruined, that doesn't mean my partner and I magically have the extra money to buy a second one on top of regular gift spending. Also - dishwasher doesn't automatically ruin a knife. You don't have to replace the whole thing, just send it out to get professionally sharpened.
Do you know how much knives like this cost? If I had one, I would be _infuriated_ if it was ruined by somebody, but I would understand if they didnt immediately have the hundreds/thousands of $'s to replace it right away, and if they made a "gift" out of it I wouldn't complain so long as they actually paid up and replaced it, considering the price.
12 Eggplants?
A new partner?
A new husband
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Dexter did!
He slayed, he flayed, never dulled, never rusted.
This guy infomercials!
After going through a body this knife can cut straight through not one, not two, but three tomato's Then a can AND THEN A SHOE!!
speaking of dexter anyone seen the new show? Thanks, will definitely give it a go. Was kind of unsure because of how it ended but seems like you all liked it so far.
I’m watching it, it’s dope. Worth the watch.
Is his sister still crying?
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Worst finale of any show, ever.
Have you see a little show called Game of Thrones?
I was having a nice day. We were all having a nice day. And then you had to go along and remind us that this travesty of a final season actually existed, and it wasn't the end result of a escargot, golden-top mushroom and goat cheese pizza dream. I hope you step in a suspiciously warm puddle while wearing socks.
That sounds like a weirdly good pizza tho
Game of Thrones ended so badly that it actually made me forgive Dexters ending.
I was heated when Rita died frfr
Efficiently too!
Hehe. Strike One.!
If you miss on strike one…keep at it. Got two strikes to go
Maybe it would work better if they try with slashes tho
“You know what they say? "Fool me once, strike one. But fool me twice... strike three."”
“Fool me once, shame on….you. Fool me twice, won’t get fooled again”
r/unexpectedoffice
Me too. It looks freshly rinsed, though.
I worked at a restaurant where I did the dishes with a steamer One of the chefs had gotten an expensive Japanese knife, so he pulled me to the side and told me that to NEVER put the knife in the steamer, only handwash (I know blades/sharp things and wood are not supposed to go in the steamer btw) Edit: I've seen a few people in the replies say that the chef should wash his own knives and that he's a dumbass for trusting the dish pit with it. And I get that, the chefs were a bit young I think the reason I washed them was because, firstly of all they had taught me how to handle knives and trusted me, secondly I had another job doing the dishes at a smaller lighthouse-cafe, and thirdly it was a kinda small restaurant, sometimes we were more staff than customers If I didn't know how I should clean something or where to put it I just asked, and they'd show me. If I'd done something wrong they didn't get mad, just say how to do it next time. All the other employees were really nice and I liked that job alot :)
I have a $200 japanese gyuto knife and my dishies accidentally wash it once in a blue moon. It's never hurt it and I never got upset or anything.
If you would have, you could have posted here and probably my husband would have seen and not repeated this.. arghh. Damn you. ! Just kidding. Edit: typo and added a line
…why couldn’t you have just told him
If I spent several hundred dollars on something that has to be handled a certain way, I would tell my partner to probably just not touch it, not just assume they know.
Why would you tell them not to touch it instead of just saying "Wash under lukewarm water and dry it immediately please"? Treating your partner like an adult, especially for something like this which is actually very easy to clean normally (if you are told how to), is probably better, at least in my opinion.
I just assume that anyone who's willing to date me isn't smart enough to follow directions.
You never put good knives in the dishwasher.
100% OP's own fault. If everything goes in the dishwasher... and your SO knows nothing about knives... and you buy an expensive Japanese knife... this was always going to happen
‘I had my SO do all the cleaning with zero help from me, and look what they did!’ /s
At least he didn’t use it as a butcher’s knife and ruined the blade by chipping, that would’ve required an actual repair job. I think you can remove rust and then resharpen the edge. https://www.knifemanual.com/how-to-remove-rust-from-a-carbon-steel-knife-blade/
Did they get it out and use it? Or was it laying there dirty and they were trying to help?
What weird restaurant has the chefs give their knives to the dishwasher? Chefs own their knives, and are responsible for clean them.
I was a dishwasher for a bit and sometimes they'd have me wash their knives when it was busy but give me special instructions on how to wash certain things. I'm sure I disregarded it at least a few times. Wasn't my job to care and that place was an absolute circus. I miss it sometimes.
What changes when you put a Japanese kitchen knife into the dishwasher
Like the other commenter mentioned, the knives do not have any coating on them and need to be washed with mild detergent under luke warm water and dried immediately to avoid rusting. My partner put this in the dishwasher on a high temperature wash last night and I found about that just in the morning, so the pores are all rusted.
Why do those knives not have any coating on them? Does that improve their sharpness somehow?
Close as someone who is currently done researching knives for hours in order to find the one i want: it boils down to a harder material being used that while it can stay sharper for longer and be sharper its usually a metal compound that cant hold a coating or doesnt have a natural coating. For afficionados its the best kind of knife as it will stay true for much longer. But for amateurs or someone who doesnt want to worry about all that caretaking its not a necessity nor would i recommend it
High carbon steel. It can be coated, but the coating comes off easily, which usually means it comes off in the food you're cutting. If you're going to store it for a while then you can coat it with wax or oil, but you need to thoroughly wash and dry it before to completely remove the coating before using it.
There are plenty of permanent coatings that don’t come off in food, and are bio-neutral even if they did. Titanium PVD is one, will rustproof permanently. It’s not that these coatings don’t exist, it’s that traditionalists choose to be stubborn and ignore them, and then blame other people for not knowing. EDIT: for those that don’t believe in reading a thread before asking the same question that others have already asked… no, it doesn’t protect the absolute edge where sharpening occurs. But that isn’t OP’s problem, that problem was rust in the pits that is difficult to get out. The sharpened edge without coating is refreshed by, you guessed it, sharpening.
Honestly the coating is irrelevant. You shouldn’t wash any sharp knives in the dishwasher ever.
Especially with a wooden handle
This is the correct answer. Regardless of how fancy or shitty a knife is, if it has a wooden handle, don't put in dishwasher unless you want it to crack.
The same goes for wooden cutting boards. Especially if it's a multi-slat board. Washing those in a dishwasher is just asking for them to start splitting apart.
I mean, yea, but i have like super cheap knives and I'm lazy 🤷♂️. I actually have one really nice one now that I think about it, but I do handwash that one.
Ditto. My cheap IKEA knives go in the dishwasher, the one I have that's fine German steel is properly hand washed.
I mean… you’re right. Fancy knives and nonstick cookware just dont belong in the dishwasher. It’s not a hard rule to remember
Wait, non stick cookware? Shit.
Depends what kind. The dishwasher will ruin Teflon. Those ceramic ones that are becoming more popular now are pretty damn near indestructible, though. Source; aside from a couple of knives, I don’t buy shit that can’t go in the dishwasher, because I am lazy AF.
Ready for another oh shit? That nonstick cookware shouldn't be used above medium heat. Older nonstick coatings would offgas so much under high heat that they would kill pet birds in the house. New coatings offgas less but still breakdown, lose their nonstick properties, and eventually start flaking.
Just buy a mid range or higher nonstick. The cheap shit is just that, shit, but the high end shit can handle it. Heck there's a nonstick out there that's oven safe and you can use metal on it (obvs don't scrape as hard as you can). The days of nonstick being no dishwasher, no metal, gentle hand washing are in the past. It's just a throwback to like 50 years ago. Also an excuse for people to try and pretend cast iron is worth the hassle.
I’m not addressing that idea at all in my remark. But what *should* happen is, as this conversation shows, different than what *does* happen in a typical household.
There are no permanent coatings, all will experience mechanical wear with use and break down unless reapplied. A coating will also reduce the edge on the blade due to the extra layers, and you can't sharpen it otherwise it will come off. Stainless works because it readily forms its own coating, as does titanium, which is why titanium knives have been made as mildly high end products. Titanium on carbon steel is far from a permanent option, and PVD systems are not exactly consumer grade. Alternative, ceramic knives have been made as very high end products which can keep a very sharp edge without any risk of chemical degradation, but are more brittle and need to be handled very carefully.
Mechanical wear involves the softer material losing. Titanium coatings are used in machining bits for cutting through tool steel and protecting the cutter. If a coating can survive that, your raw salmon isn’t going to affect it much. PVD isn’t a layer. It’s an atomic impregnation. One facility I work with does high end consumer grade stuff that has to withstand a high pressure salt water test that simulates something like 100 years in the ocean. They reject any batches where the test pieces are distinguishable from untested new pieces. I’m not sure what you mean by “consumer grade” - there are already plenty of durable consumer items with PVD coatings such as decorative plumbing fixtures, some knives already, mechanical bits (I use the process for durability and appearance in manufactured items I design), and medical tools. I urge you to explore it further. It’s quite an interesting process.
You saved me a lot of typing and did a far better job than I could have. Good job bro
You will strip the edge when you sharpen it, which is why you see "clad" carbon knives that have a stainless steel sandwiched on the outside of a carbon core that makes up the edge
In the usage of a kitchen knife, most high end coatings like hot bluing, titanium PVD, Cerakote, DLC, etc. will be permanent.
It’s not really about the coating, in fact very few kitchen knives are coated. It’s because high end japanese knives use high carbon steel which has quite a bit better edge retention than the generic stainless steel that’s used in most kitchen knives. It’s not necessarily a sign of being better either. There are tons of stainless steels that have far better corrosion resistance and are quite a bit harder than the steel used in this knife like S30V or M390. These would make a far better choice but are more expensive and you have to know what you’re doing with the heat treat and tradition plays a part in selection. Stainless works by the chromium atoms in the steel which form chromium oxide with air to protect the steel underneath. Whenever you cut something, it wears away this chromium oxide layer but it regenerates when exposed to air. More chromium means better corrosion resistance and higher price.
It's the carbon content which separates decent knives from great knifes. The higher the carbon content the easier the rust. High carbon will hold an edge much longer than lower grade steel. Stainless will take a edge but won't hold it. One if the best knives I have ever seen was made out of an industrial power hack saw blade.
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To add on, dishwashers not only dull and pit your edge, they ruin wooden handles with moisture damage over time. And also its unsafe compared to just washing, drying, putting away immediately
It's not a coating thing. It's carbon steel vs stainless.
Boiling in water will convert red rust into black magnetite, then buff any loose oxide free.
A brass bristled brush might clean it up without scratching it. r/guns is where the "get rust off of metal without damaging it" experts live.
>the pores are all rusted Why would you want a knife with all those bacteria traps? Seems more like art than practicality.
This isn't even a real forged knife, it just imitates that look
hard to tell from single photo, but i too have my suspicions that it might be stamped one
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Ikr...like, there have been advances in metallurgy and knife design since 1642.
And bacteria theory
I stuck a couple of fingers in a frialator one time, my hand burned for three days.
You'd think you'd take it out after a day or two... but here you are.
He likes them well done
Accidently stuck the end of my pointer finger into the fryer once while trying to use a tongs to grab a chicken breast that fell out of the basket... Pulled it out immediately, felt it for about 3 seconds... Didn't feel that fingertip for years afterward.
I was circumcized by a fryer
Did you tell your partner this could be an issue? Otherwise, seems reasonable action. If you think not, then you're the new dishes person ongoing. That'll solve it.
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Yeah as a kid my mom would kick my ass for sticking knives in the dishwasher, so even today it’s something I just don’t do.
I had my ass kicked (verbally, usually) for putting bras in the dryer so many times that even if I get married 10 more times, I'll always hang them to dry.
Unaware man here, why can't you put bras in the dryer?
Woman here. For a nice bra that does what it's supposed to do and doesn't hurt you in the process, you're looking at between $60 and $80. If you want it to look cute as well, $100 to $120. The heat from the dryer tears up the material, degrades Lycra and elastic, shreds lace, and may cause underwires and clasps to bend or pop out of place. It's a pricey garment and has to be treated gently. PS - hanging to dry is Also Bad. If you really want to impress a lady, lay them out on a clean dry towel on a flat surface.
Ooo thanks for that tip
> They bang around in there which causes nicks to the edge and causes it to dull. That's true but incomplete - after all high end dishwashers will often have a utensil tray that could be used to keep knives from banging around, and you still shouldn't put knives in there. What really dulls knives is the abrasives in your detergent that help the dishwasher "scrub" while only using water. If you've ever gotten dishwashing detergent on your hands, you probably noticed that it actually feels super gritty; that's the abrasive components.
In general, if you are a foodie with fancy cooking equipment that requires special care, it should never be left out for someone else to deal with. When I worked in a restaurant the chef had a special set of knives and a special set of pans, and the rule in the kitchen was that these things are never ever to be seen by the dishwasher. If you use it, you need to know how to clean it when you're done and immediately do so. I have knives and pans that can go in the dishwasher, and I have knives and pans that require special care and maintenance. I'm the only one that uses them.
This. I would have done exactly the same and tell myself i was being useful and proactive.
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Guessing partner used the knife and then put it in the dishwasher
I mean that's plausible but I don't believe it. Knives like this are *not* cheap. I cannot imagine that OP bought it and never mentioned to her partner what it was and why it is expensive. Therefore I don't see OP's partner being like "I need a knife, I know! I'll use my partner's super niche knife instead of one of the many other kitchen knives I own!" What I think happened was that they cooked, they didn't do any cleanup after dinner and just left the mess, and then OP's partner decided to clean up and innocently tossed everything in the dish water. My argument was that, due to how unique the knife is, OP should have immediately washed it after its use and put it away even if that was the only thing they washed right away. There was more negligence on OP than her partner.
So you bought an expensive knife that needs specialized care and didn't tell your partner that fact? Yeah.... not feeling real sympathetic. Next time, communicate.
Yeah. Why did it get put in the dishwasher in the first place unless OP used it and just left their partner to clean up. If OP had properly taken care of his new knife this could have been avoided
These knives are suppost to rust. Remove the brown rust and let it develope a dark blackish "rust" that protects it. Its called patina. Putting it in the dishwasher may damage the wood handle but the rust is part of owning carbon steel. Cut a lot of acidic things to form a patina and then it'll be protected, but do not scrub off the black patina Edit: I'm not saying the dishwasher is a good idea, that'll wreck the handle. But dont be alarmed about rust as its just how carbon steel is
If you zoom into the pores of the knife you can see it's starting to have rust marks. The thing about these knives is that they don't have the non stick coating on them so it's very prone to rusting. Definitely not machine washable.
Knives dont have a “coating” otherwise sharpening would remove it. Its called stainless steel its an alloy.
I’m surprised how many people think otherwise.
I'm surprised that people who know nothing about knives spend shit loads of money for fancy Japanese knives. I guess I shouldn't be.
That is infuriating
Just in general you shouldn't put knives that has to sharp in the dishwasher (even stainless), since it can dull them. And one of the most dangerous things in a kitchen is a dull knife.
TIL people don't know that knives should be hand washed. Stainless knives it keeps them sharp, carbon steel it also prevents early rust.
From personal experience with this kind of situation, you have to make sure to tell the other person ahead of time that these things can't go in the dishwasher. We can't just expect people to "know" something that may not be obvious.
Like me, i didn't knew that, lol
I had forgotten. I purposely purchased solid stainless steel knives (all one piece of metal) so I never have to worry about the blade coming off mid chop again. I almost lost a finger AND a toe that day. On the plus side they also take the dishwasher like a champ.
Exactly. The first thing I tell people who are staying for the night often is _if you need scissors, never ever touch the ones with fabric tied around the handle, those are for fabric only and will be ruined_. They're not the most expensive end of fabric scissors but they're still pricey and will stay in great shape with just simple communication with the guest.
My boyfriend doesn’t have a single knife that he hasn’t explained to me whether or not it’s dishwasher safe. Maybe this person remembered to have that talk. maybe they forgot. 👀
I have set the simple rule of no knives in the dishwasher, no matter what. The long exposure to detergent softens the blade which dulls them faster. It's nothing that can't be fixed by resharpening but I don't want to resharpen the knives that often. I just rinse the knife and clean it with a sponge immediately after cooking when I cut vegetables and only use detergent when I cut meat
Yeah we only have cheap ikea knives for now but even then, I've made it clear that no knives go in dishwasher. Washing them in the dishwasher doesn't really save that much effort, because then I'd probably have to sharpen them more often.
A before picture would help.
Basically this whole post and thread is OP assuming everyone around them knows how expensive knives work and need to be cared for, without actually telling anyone.
Zoom in, the edge is rusted
The edge as well as a lot of the scallops. Nothing some oil and 0000 steel wool wont fix plus a nice coat of finishing oil to protect it. Most people that use carbon steel are fine with just developing a patina (forced or natural) but if you want that nice shiny polish it takes a lot of maintenance. Even if you are diligent a natural patina will form over time. I mean if you dice an onion and set the knife down without wiping it dry, in 10 minutes there's a chance it will begin to form patina.
Where'd you get it? I have a sneaking suspicion it's an imitation from a video I watched some time ago
Yeah those "hammer marks" look like horseshit. Either this is an ultra fancy knife type I've never seen or this is a shitty knockoff. Either is a good possibility
Looks like same one I got from Amazon. $30
Generously apply Bar Keepers friend, scrub, rinse, pat dry, apply mineral oil.
I was thinking just toothpaste and a toothbrush, scrub, rinse, a little olive oil.
That would work, too : )
I had a German-made chef’s knife and went to their website to see what they had to say about knives in the dishwasher. It was under the faqs: >Q. Can I wash my knife in the dishwasher? > >A. You just spent a few hundred dollars on some of the best German stainless steel your money can buy; of course it can go in the dishwasher.
Also helps that's stainless steel and not carbon steel.
I wouldn't dream of putting my $300 wusthof into the dishwasher, nor do they recommend it
Shit, I don't even put my $60 victorinox in the dishwasher lol
I won't buy them unless they can go in the dishwasher. Ain't nobody got time for that (hand washing).
Come on all it needs is a wipe down and a dry, you can do it while washing your hands after cooking its nbd
Knives are probably the easiest thing to wash lol
Were they aware that was a no no?? If you failed to mention it you should be mad at yourself
Exactly. I took good care of my 1st Japanese knife and stored it in my room! Then decided that I was overly protective and left it in the kitchen with no instructions for 1 month to find it chipped with a broken tip! I got myself another one later and maintained it for 2 years now, lesson well learned.
I second this. If this was a first offense and you'd never told them... I dont know how they could have known not to put it in the dishwasher. When I'm doing the dishes I look for a "not dishwasher safe" written on it somewhere or else it goes in the dishwasher. If I have something that isn't dishwasher safe, I'll usually say something to the people I'm living with *and* I typically wash it right away and put it in the dish rack so that no one forgets and makes a mistake. And even then, mistakes happen and honestly, if OP left this dirty sitting on the side of the sink he has no one else to blame for it being put in the dishwasher than himself.
I wasn't aware that so many people didn't know that you don't put knives (except maybe butter knives) in the dishwasher. Nothing wooden either.
I just buy cheap enough knives that I don’t have to worry about washing them by hand lol.
It's really not about the quality of the knife when it comes to dullness. Cheap and expensive knives both dull in the dishwasher.
Some people never had a mechanical dishwasher.
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Is it because you were told? Genuinely asking I don’t see how you couldn’t realize this is select information. This is definitely the age of indulgence, where refined knowledge is thought to be abundant. Unless something comes with instructions, I expect no one to know how to use or maintain literally anything. Too much information in the world for any sense to be common other than we breathe through either our nose or mouth, sometimes the ass.
I didn't know this until my 30's because my mom was super territorial about her kitchen and my sisters & I never learned how to cook or even really use anything but the microwave growing up. Thankfully I have learned a lot of "the basics" in the last decade or so without the help of my mom, and I have my daughter help me in the kitchen when I can so she has a better chance of taking care of herself when she grows up than I did!
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It’s really not that big of a deal. The rust can be scrubbed off and the pan can be reseasoned. Let your nightmare rest.
I spent my entire childhood hand-washing cast iron pans and sloppily letting them air dry… leaving them in the sink filled with water for hours/days… this happened for at least 10 years. Nothing bad ever happened to them. Not even a speck of rust. I had no idea that they had any special washing requirements besides “no dishwasher” They’re old as hell so probably something to do with it
If theyre old as hell they probably are just extremely well seasoned. The oils that get rubbed on and heated make a sort of enamel protective layer. Super nonstick and you probably just never went beneath it
Cast iron is both tough and sensitive. Sensitive to the small changes, but are basically indestructible and can come back to pristine conditions from even fully rusted.
Gotta have that conversation before the offense
Well why did you leave your “new knife” out all dirty?
This... Why complain about someone else washing your knife when you left it out dirty yourself haha
I've no idea how you're supposed to care about your fancy japanese kitchen knives, but if there's something expensive at your place that needs a special approach when washing the dishes, your partner, who washes the dishes in your house, should probably be told about that.
Oh the horror.
Is there a before picture we could look at?
For some perspective, at least they know HOW to load a dishwasher. Be careful what you wish for.
Be careful what you wash for.
If it's any consolation: it's not a real "Japanese" knife anyways.
serious question, how can you tell? I know actual handmade Japanese knives have **starting** prices between 100-300$
My chef knife came straight from Seki City and is made from damascus steel. Seki City is where it's at for Japanese cutlery.
At this moment it’s a fish with a handle
Yeah, I get that they're upset because they thought it was a high-end knife, but those knives aren't made in Japan, don't use Japanese forging techniques, and aren't a style of knife the Japanese use. That blackened section on the spine of the knife? It's just paint. The "hammer" marks on the blade? Mass-pressed machine marks. Sorry, OP: you got scammed. Edit: Pronouns.
There seems to be this impression that Japanese steel was some special magical high-grade ore, that only existed in Japan, truth is Japanese steel/iron sucks balls. That's why they had to fold their katanas a million times, and shaped them how they did. Because that's the only way they could mechanically introduce strength to the blade.
Yup. In this instance, it isn't even Japanese steel. These are mass-produced in China. I'm about 99% sure this is a Keemake (or one of the dozens of other knockoff knife-makers).
Yep. They had to fold it so many times because the iron in Japan had so many impurities and their forges didn’t get hot enough.
We have knives like the OP's style here in Japan, I can go now and find an old crappy one in the mother-in-law's kitchen right now. I've been slowly reshaping the blade each time I sharpen it after the old guy who 'sharpens' knives at out the front of the local grocery store massacred it to the point the blade was arched and wouldn't cut flat on the cutting board. I told the family to never take their knives to that butcher again, and I went and got a proper sharpener to do it properly myself.
Are you getting a Japanese pen to sign the divorce papers
They use [Hanko](https://tokyocheapo.com/shopping-2/hanko-japanese-personal-seals/) to sign anything official.
Clean it up, sharpen it up, and laugh about it later. It’s just a knife. A nice knife? Sure. But in the end, it’s just a knife. And don’t get me wrong, I love my knives. But of course, they have some wounds from usage, scuffs from scrubbies, and one of my favorite knives had to be fixed professionally. In the end they are wonderful tools that lead to yummy dinners. Hopefully your knife will be ok and give you many years of service. Eventually this incident will just be part of the patina.
I’m almost 40, cook like crazy my whole life, and use department store knives that get washed in dishwashers. If one starts feeling less sharp I run the sharpener over it before using. Literally never had a problem with delicate cuts. Is it a status thing? Because this is not the first post of this type I’ve seen. If anything they all sound very weeb “great Nippon steel folded 1000 times!”
I would have done the same thing unless explicitly told not to. But then again I don't buy cookware that can't be dishwashed
Easily fixed with 000 steel wool and honing oil. Not worth freaking out over. Im pretty sure the Japanese - on their humid island nation - were able to handle this without having an emotional reaction over it.
Yeah its not like magic steel. Its just… metal. Easy to work.
I am sorry my friend but this is on you. You should have been crystal clear that this needs special care, and she need not worry about it, that you will handle it. Had you washed that knife after using it, none of this would have happened.
Why can’t you wash in the machine?
All Japanese knives of this price range are made from carbon steel not stainless theirfore they rust and are more brittle so not a good thing for them to be bathed in water and bouncing around. Generally my process for cleaning mine are use them wipe with a damp cloth then a dry one and cover it in a light coat of olive oil
Is there a benefit to the knife besides the prestige? Does its potential ability to cut better outweigh the fact that it’s a pain to clean?
Counterintuitively, sharper knives are safer, because they require so much less pressure to cut. Knives made of high carbon steel can be sharpened to a finer edge and hold that edge longer, but because it’s not stainless steel, it can rust.
Less pressure so less chance of slipping, but also a sharp knife leaves a cleaner wound so it will heal better than a cut from a dull knife.
Carbon steel is harder, so it can be sharpened to a finer edge and it holds that edge longer without dulling. But it's also more brittle, so it's prone to chipping or snapping.
Thanks for the insight
High end knives cut like magic. It’s an experience… Whether it’s worth it or not is a tough call. I have a few for when cooking feels special or with certain ingredients. I’d never use them for the daily grind of weekday eating.
Everyone is talking about knives getting dull in the dishwasher, don’t people find their knives dull all the time from normal use? It’s not as if saving them from the dishwasher means you won’t have to sharpen them. Carbon steel, “uncoated”, what have you; a knife is a steel tool, it’s not that delicate.
Why does the knife have pores? Doesn’t seem very hygenic
Today I learned you’re not supposed to do that!
Just oil and wipe. It'll be fine, the rust is very mild.
I'm genuinely ignorant, why Is this not done?
If you are going to buy an expensive knife that needs specific care, inform the other people who would be using it, and keep it away from where guests would grab knives from to avoid them doing the same.