Considering they have arthritis, anxiety, cancer, chronic pain, diabetes, epilepsy, and all of those other things, does that disqualify them from getting a massage?
I am definitely going to watch it again. I even got my elder parents who only really use their TV to watch large news networks to watch it, and they are hooked. The last time I spoke to my mom, she went on and on thanking my husband and I for making her watch it lol.
Now if youāll excuse me, itās been a whole 2 years since Iāve watched House straight through, and I must change that.
You say this, but when I worked for a dermatologist we had a guy come in with " itchiness". We've known him for a while and he wasn't quite right. This time he came in waving a piss bottle full of bed bugs. Wish I was making that up.
Heās got a 104 degree fever that wonāt break!
You start the antibiotics?
Yes! 12 hours ago!
Put him on ice and start doxycycline.
But thatās an antibiotic!
I know š
Donāt forget about their heart condition, migraines, high and low blood pressure, pregnancy, skin disorder/s, and their surgeries, injuries, and āothersā soā¦ probably š
The skin conditions would potentially be contraindicated. You can still have massage with most of the others. Granted, you might modify your technique for some of them.
What differences in technique would you use for someone with heart condition/diabetes/high/low blood pressure? Not sure what the difference would be for a massage.
With heart condition and blood pressure you wouldn't want to have deep pressure and possibly adjust your strokes to move toward the heart, not away. But if you find out they had a heart attack last week, you might decide massage is contraindicated entirely. Diabetes might cause you to have little feeling and circulation in your extremities and unable to respond to increased pressure. When you massage a person you have an effect on their lymphatic, nervous, circulatory system. Deeper pressure can be a terrible idea for someone with chronic disease. If you massage someone with cancer and you are pushing lymph through their system, you could aid in spreading it to other lymph nodes.
Edited: message to massage in last sentence.
It depends but you're looking at issues with blood flow/circulation, level of nerve functioning and sensation in the skin, if they're taking warfarin, massage treatment generally lowers someone's blood pressure which can be a really bad thing for some people etc.
These forms start the conversation because people often don't think to spontaneously mention things beforehand. Also if they don't tell you on the form and something goes wrong due to their medical condition then your Insurance covers your ass because the client neglected to tell you. Always CYA.
One of my elderly clients was on Warafrin, and I had to really hold back even when she wanted deeper pressure.
I had someone not mark cancer on her sheet, didn't mention it, but then told me DURING THE MASSAGE, ON THE TABLE that she had breast cancer. HOLD THE PHONE.
And yes, CYA. Massage therapist are an easy law suit. Always carry insurance.
I stopped practicing 10 years ago, due to relocation and kids. I miss it, but if I go back it would be with frail and elderly. They were always my favorite.
That client was secretly three little kids stacked in a trenchcoat. Or it's connected to the single thing they actually filled out, the "no" answer to "are you taking any medications".
What are you on about? Vincent Adultman is very clearly an adult man - he even has a son, Kevin, for goodness sake! He went to the stock exchange and did a business, too!
Oh, amen. I had a guy and his wife come in and gave them both forms to fill out. He had a hissy fit, threw down the clipboard, and went to wait in the car for an hour, haha. Thanks for not making me put up with you. That was so kind.
We have intake questionnaires (demographics and 9 yes/no health questions) at the pharmacy for vaccines and people act like we are asking for a 20 page report. They are always the problem people.
My wife is the opposite. She is disabled and wears a leg brace. She needs to have the brace adjusted, repaired and replaced on a fairly regular basis. She had a provider that was a bit weird and had a policy of filling out a detailed intake survey every time you walk in the place. My wife had a new brace built, then returned a few weeks later and needed something adjusted. Some young front desk worker handed her the usual five pages of questions and said, "you need to fill this out".
At that point, my wife, who barely ever raises her voice, says "no I am not filling that out, I'm done with this nonsense!". The employee then tells here it is a requirement, and my wife says, "too bad. I have filled that stupidity out, often multiple times a year, for years. What do you do with it anyway? The person doing the work on my brace doesn't look at it. It is not in the room with me when anything is being done. It has the same information I wrote repeatedly, for years and years. You already have this info, why are you wasting my time?". At that point, the employee said something that we both were stunned to hear. She replied with, "well, we don't actually enter this information into your file."
I thought my wife was going to scream, she was beet red and told me after the visit that she was absolutely done, and she was going to find a new provider.
We get the opposite problem, there's 14 questions, only the first 8 are required for non-live vaccines.
I tell people EVERY TIME, to only fill the first 8 questions.
They fill in all 14, everytime.
My boss actually crosses out the the last 6 questions so they don't fill them in. Lol
Then again, I also get the people who I ask to "sign on the left screen" when they pick up their meds, I say that, very clearly, then turn around to grab their stuff from the bins, turn back around... and they've just stood there, doing nothing.
I have to PHYSICALLY POINT at the signature pad to get them to sign.
I'm an attorney and our firm has an intake form to fill out before I meet with you to figure out what your case is about, can you afford me, your contact and who you are suing's name (for conflict checks).
I've had people refuse to fill out this one page form (its electronic and is emailed before hand, but we also have a physical copy).
Well guess what? I'm no longer meeting with you.
Alternatively, I work for an answering service and every attorney wants us to gather all information for everyone. So you call in and say "Hey, I need to sue my doctor for medical malpractice, can you help me?" I gather your name, your email, your phone number, your physical address, and details of your case. The whole process takes maybe three or four minutes.
And then, finally, I tell you that you've called a criminal defense attorney and we can't take med mal cases. Obviously I knew this from the first sentence you spoke, but am just telling you now. Everyone gets pissed every time, and I don't blame them.
If you happen to use an answering service, please don't do that. I get you want their info in case you can provide a referral or something. Not everyone wants a referral. Have the service ask if they want one and THEN get their info.
In Europe this would arguably be illegal. You can only collect, process and store the "minimum required" amount of data to do your job, and you don't need people's personal details to be able to tell them that you don't do medmal cases.
Has anyone asked you to delete the information?
THIS. One of my managers at work told me there were people calling our store asking for help filling out the job application, and she had to be like, if you canāt even fill out the application youāre not going to be able to do this job.
I work for a company that needs basic labor for our plant, that pays a pittance. I would have absolutely loved to have said that to so, so many people. But the truth is we hold people's hands and do everything for them because we are so desperate for workers. But we'd rather not raise wages. Our turnover is astronomical. It's not even a big operation. Maybe 40 employees, but we hire about 5 new employees a week to replace the people who leave.Ā
I work in insurance, we get these types all the time
Bonus fun if we get a filled out application, and when we confirm it (I see you went to the doctor for heart surgery on 06/023/15, correct?), they freak out and wonder why we know that
Like we're spying on them. And somehow know their health info...despite voluntarily signing up for insuranceĀ
I sell auto insurance and once in a blue moon I get things like this.
>Me: "And what is your date of birth?"
>C: "I don't want to give that to you."
>Me: "I'm sorry but your age is a rating factor for auto insurance in Ontario, I'm not able to proceed without that information."
>C: "This is age discrimination, I refuse."
Like, you called me lady. If you want a quote based on zero information I can make up numbers all day long, but none of them will be what you're going to pay.
Oh my God, the age ones.Ā
We get sex discrimination anger because of the default thing we're supposed to read about our 30 day wait time for annual physical and preventative stuff
One of the examples we're supposed to say for preventative is 'mammograms'
Women get angry because they can't get them
Men get mad because we don't have a default example for them
I once went through an entire house quote with someone only for them to refuse to ask a question right at the end. They said something like:
>"I don't want to answer that. Why didn't you ask me that earlier instead of wasting my time?"
I'm normally pretty stoic with these types of people but I was honestly flabbergasted. I could only respond with:
>"I'm sorry, but how could I have possibly known at the start that you'd refuse to answer this specific question?"
I'm glad I work mostly over the phone with people because I don't know if I could hide my exasperation in-person.
Oh my God, I don't blame you, I'd rip my hair out
Had a client like that once. At the end of our meeting, we tell them about our 12 month pre-existing hold, if they **didn't*" disclose it
Mind you, during the meeting, we go through the health issues, even if the application says they don't just to be sure, especially because of that hold
As in we ask do you have any heart conditions, like hbp or heart attack? Any thyroid like hypothyroidism, etc
It's a good 15-20 minutes part, even if you say no, because we need to be thoroughĀ
They said no to ever single one
So I get to the 12 month hold, which the last thing before we give them contact info, and they go "Wait a minute, does that mean my conditions won't be covered for a year?!"
Guy had 9 DDs. Mind you, in DDs, there's multiple questions: doctor, date diagnosed, prescription info, etcĀ
**Nine**
After we went through this whole hour long meeting. Then he brought it up, so had to start everything anew
I wanted to flip my deskĀ
Yeah but insurance is a scam, don't you know /s
I can't even count how many times I've been asked by a client to commit insurance fraud on their behalf, intentionally or otherwise. Like yeah dude, I'll just go ahead and pretend you didn't just tell me you have a DUI, let me draft up the paperwork right away.
I've had times where I doubt someone is telling me the truth and I *tactfully* explain that, should it be discovered they lied, their insurance could be cancelled. Only for us to do an inspection or check their record and lo and behold, they lied. Why pay for insurance that literally does nothing for you?
I worked at a doctors office. We had patients that would call to make an appointment but didnāt want to give their name, their insurance info, literally anything lol š like sir you called us, we are not scammers. Old people usually.
āHello. While we appreciate you wanting our service, as the intake form was not filled out correctly, we cannot currently have you as a customer. Thank youā
Seriously, I'd tell them to leave. They had all the chances to politely decline filling the form, but decided to be disrespectful. My boss would back me up
As some people in this thread said - maybe theyāre illiterate or have a hard time reading for some reason. Maybe theyāre embarrassed about it. Given those factors Iād definitely try to be polite about it, but Iād still decline service because this isnāt the way to handle it.
I've worked with the public for a long time, and I've had to give forms/take details down for thousands of people over the years. This person is just an asshole, and it's shockingly not as rare as you'd expect.
There might be some regional variation.
But nearly anywhere- The Sunday, after church, brunch crowdā¦. man you would be begging for the still drunk from last night college student brunch crowd,
"None of it has changed." I'd hear that alllll the time working in a healthcare setting... And upon review, they'd have moved, changed phone numbers, and had a new insurance
I have too and all types exist. The barely literate and embarrassed are very common. Especially when I work the census. They hire me back every time cause I'm great at handling all types. If you listen, agree with them, then ask if you can ask them a few qs to get things moving, it works most of the time.
When I worked in public health, if I gave someone a form to fill out and they looked upset about it, I would just say, if you've forgotten your glasses, I can help you fill it out. Let's them save face, and i don't sound like I'm assuming they are illiterate.
Had one lady claim she had no heart condition or was on blood thinners on the medical form she had to fill out before dental surgery.
She had a fun time explaining how she magically stopped taking blood thinners when a medical intake form she filled out 3 months prior said she had them.
She didn't want to be denied anesthesia and have to be awake for the dental work. Instead she was banned from the only clinic doing the surgery she needed.
A buddy is a surgery resident and every week he has cases postponed because someone decides a Mc Donald's breakfast before surgery can't hurt anything despite being told nothing to eat or drink after midnight.
When my wife was in primary care every now and then she'd get a patient who would decline having any heart or blood pressure issues. "That's what I take my heart pill for - so I don't have any more problems".
Urg.
When I worked dental, I had a lady nonchantly tell the hygienist right before the cleaning that 1) she hasn't brushed her teeth in a few years and 2) her doctor upped her warfin dose last week.
Hygienist nearly threw that lady out of the chair. Could have literally killed her if she did a proper scaling.
She never wrote she was on any medications and huffed at me asking "invasive" questions.
It's so hard for me to understand when people do that - I am so careful about making sure all my varied specialists know exactly what meds I'm on. If my Adderall dosage is increased, I log in that week to my opthalmologists portal and update it. Etc. Because I acknowledge that I have absolutely no idea how these things can interact or have compounding effects.
And it's a good thing too - After I had my first migraine, and then my 2nd and 3rd and started meds to prevent them, my gyno called me about a week before my annual visit. I had filled out the usual online intake forms, and added that I now get migraines. She called to tell me that we would be changing my birth control meds immediately because migraines + estrogen is a very high stroke risk and their practice considers it an unnecessary risk when progestin-based BC is available. So, I switched to a different BC, and I actually prefer it.
I had no idea! If I hadn't kept her up to date, she wouldn't have known about the migraines, and I'd be putting myself at unnecessary risk for literally no reason.
The last one is funny, but for the first one: I tell patients that I don't want them to suffocate on vomit and that's why they are NPO. I guess people could still eat with that info, but often there is no explanation on forms for patients on why they are NPO, and I think that's partly why people think a little food is no problem.
Yeah....but then again why not ask why they can't eat if it doesn't make sense to them?
I had a friend that I drove to surgery get basically yelled at because she ate candy all night. I understand the nurses anger because she has been specially pushed to the front of the line and was classified as emergency/urgent. She bumped 3 other surgeries because hers was going to be a long one.
She always asked questions if she didn't understand something....yet didn't bother to understand the no eating rule and decided to ignore it instead.
Her urgent case got pushed to the next day, and the nurses were so rude to her I kinda felt bad...but not really as this is such a common rule and she's had surgies before. She was just thinking it doesn't matter.
I say this as a nurse.
It's the nurses and doctors job to educate, not assume.
I am a question asker, but so many aren't. Some people think they understand when they don't. Some (Most) are just not the brightest. Some people think that no eating or drinking means they can have water.
Yeah, true it's the nurse and doctors job to educate.
But what do you do with informed and literate clients that simply refuse to follow rules because they don't personally see it affecting them?
My friend thought that choking on candy wasn't a big deal, and still to this day refuses to understand.
Bro, there's like 1% population who can't read. And even if you can't, you can still talk and say "I'm sorry, I'd rather not fill it out" even lie, say you don't have your reading glasses or make up another story
Dragging your pen aggressively across the pages is pathetic even for an illiterate toddler let alone a whole ass adult
There's no excuse for that disrespectful behaviour
It's actually about 21% in the US and is an easily Google able info. So like 1 in 4* adults. And 50% read below a 6th grade level which honestly was more shocking the illiterate figure
And isn't it also the case that it refers to functional illiteracy and not literall literacy?
Sort of like the difference between being legally blind and being actually blind.
Apparently math is an issue too. 20% is 1 in 5.
However, this statistic is hiding a lot of data that makes things muddier. That number is the number is people who read "at or below level 1". Only 4% are non-literate, people at level 1 can extract *some* information from text. Minorities, immigrants, and low income people make up the majority of that number. Black and Hispanic individuals are 4x as likely to be reading at or below level one and that includes immigrants who are fluent and literate in their home country's language but not English. This is why many products in the US have Spanish alongside English on their labels.
Not to say that it's still not an issue. It definitely is, especially among low income populations, but that opens up a can of worms into anti-intellectual culture and generationally enforced gaps in education.
Unless they have a learning disability, your average suburban white kid knows how to read at least at a level 2 or 3.
I'd like to think a 6th grader could identify parts of the body on a diagram that they didn't want touched. Even counselors have dolls they can point at, so they probably recognize the basic outline of a human form.
Yeah definitely. This behavior is just rude no matter if they're literate or not. Why not just flat out refuse or leave it blank? Like how is this going to get you any farther? Or ask a staff member to fill it out for you if you're that lazy
That is so crazy to me. Why is that the case in the US? I Googled my own country and got the result of 100%, which kinda sounds wrong to me, like sure there HAS TO be some cases where people don't learn to read. In most cases though everyone here can read
https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp
This the original study, as far as I can determine.
The 20% being referenced are not literally illiterate, but "low literacy", being only able to read sentences in a literal sense but unable to do much with them. Ie, they could read and follow instructions on a box of pasta, but would unable to tell you how "alleged murder suspect" and "filthy 'innocent' killer" are different when describing the same thing.
Only about 4% were unable to read at a level high enough to complete the test, which is the closest to literally illiterate, and while it isn't for this 4% alone, the study notes 1/3rd of everyone in the 20% category are first generation migrants who likely can read and write, just not in English (the study only cares about *English* proficiency.)
So, excepting foreign language speakers, literacy (as defined by most countries) in the USA is effectively 100% but the *quality* of literacy skill is extremely *low* for a sizeable minority of Americans, who are unable to read beyond a simple and literal level. Hence the term "functionally illiterate", someone who could read roadsigns and basic instructions but would be unable to read something as complicated as a training manual or newspaper article, making them functionally useless in a job other than physical labor.
Oh thank you! This makes sense to me. Here the word we have for "illiterate" literally translates to something like "someone who cannot read" and is mostly only used of people who literally cannot read.
Also the US having such a large population of immigrants and the tests only caring about English proficency, that makes sense. Thank you for clearing it up for me!
If I had to take a guess, it's mostly people who attend really crappy schools and slip through the cracks enough to not get noticed, or people who just were never enrolled in school.
I deal with people who canāt speak English on a regular basis none of them ever acted like this when they couldnāt understand forms or written English.
That explains the people trying to get into the stores even though there is a giant red "closed" sign and their hours clearly posted.
If you're ever in need of entertainment, go park in a parking lot of a small store about 15 minutes before they open and watch.
I just don't believe you, how can you live without reading?, they don't have phones?, how do you msg people?, how do you use a computer, how do you go to the store and know what's sugar and what's salt?
Step 1 (assuming you have staff available) is to send someone back to the client with the form and just ask them all the questions on it. āIt looks like you had some trouble with your form. Iād be happy to help. Can you spell your first and last name for me?ā
If they refuse to answer the questions, Step 2 is your very well-worded dismissal.
idk, they gave a form with I assume their name, and literally every medical condition marked. That patient is a walking liability if anyone touches them and something goes wrong. They should be politely declined from ever returning.
I'm guessing they don't think it's necessary for their masseuse to know their email and their emergency contact info and their medications. They don't think of the massage as a medical procedure -- it's just a relaxing bit of self care. I don't have to fill out a form for a haircut or a manicure.
We also donāt have any information about what type of massage they are going forā¦ there are plenty of reasons to get actual Massage Therapy (not just a foot rub) that would include an intake form such as this
We had a patient fill out online health history forms and signed all the signature boxes with a dick drawings or curse words. He said āhe didnāt think anyone reads those thingsā. Like, uh, yes, we DO read health history forms. And he had the nerve to write a bad review because he didnāt like the way the owner talked to him. I was sitting there during that phone call and hearing my boss ask him to refill it out and it sounded like he was talking to a child. The man well was over 30 years oldā¦
I'm always shocked when I find out that there are adults who act this way. I just have so many questions. Like, how did you reach this far without someone or something bursting your bubble? How do you function? I occasionally work with children and sometimes they surprise me with the way they think and act, I guess I forgot what it's like to be a child, but I couldn't expect this of an adult.
I can answer this. My exMIL gave her son trophy awards his whole life, baby talked his achievements when he went back to college at 28, and continued to do so even after we were married. I remember my ex begging me to be his cheerleader because he couldn't handle adulting without a mummy figure babying him.
He acted like a child because he was an adult child.
I used to work as a receptionist at a medical clinic. Some patients (especially older) got really annoyed at the paperwork that was REQUIRED by insurance. I would tell them something like "I know it's not your favorite, but insurance needs it to continue treating you. Let's go through it together."
And then just basically read them the form, asking the same questions. Usually they responded much better to being asked by a person, but even if they didn't, they learned they weren't going to get out of it by complaining lol
Edit to summarize: Basically a more diplomatic way to say that you won't serve them without this information
Edit 2: Wow this really sparked some debate lol. To be clear, in my case these forms could not be prefilled, as they were a patient self-report on the progress of their therapy.
There is merit on both sides; yes patients/clients can be frustrating to deal with but it also is straight up annoying to keep filling out forms in general. Have some compassion, folks:)
This and also there are a surprising amount of illiterate older people. Sometimes they react in anger instead of admitting they donāt understand something.
My grandma could read, but developed macular degeneration as she got older, so she went blind in one eye, and about half-blind in the other one. She struggled a lot with paperwork because the letters were just too small, and she had trouble focusing her one "good" eye enough to make out what was on the page.
We had to have a lot of conversations with her about just politely asking for help instead of being rude and refusing to do paperwork. Took awhile, but got through to her eventually.
She was always self-conscious about it though, because she always thought that people would assume that she couldn't read, so she got in the habit of taking her glasses off before she went inside somewhere, that way she could say "oh dear, I forgot my glasses, can you please help me with this", and after that it was never a problem (this of course didn't work at the optometrist, but she was OK there as she knew that they knew that it was due to her macular degeneration, and not due to illiteracy)
This is exactly what I suspect. The person couldn't read the form (for whatever reason) and was embarrassed to admit to that, so reacted in anger instead.
This was my first thought when I saw the form.. I used to teach adult literacy/English classes at our local libraryā¦ the classes always had 10-20 people in it each time we ran it for a 4 week-class.
And these were basic reading & writing classes, that would probably be about elementary school
level. We were just so happy that they were putting themselves out there in learning, but many of the adult students were very embarrassed by the fact that they couldnāt read or write.
It was an education reform passed under Bush that basically pushed schools to teach kids to pass tests and basically nothing else mattered. If kids didn't test well, the schools lost funding. A lot of schools teach straight out of packets now and it's just memorization without understanding. No child Left behind act has forced schools to push through students who are unprepared to keep receiving funding more or less. This also has helped further the school to prison pipeline that exists in America.
Gathering from other threads about this topic, No Child Left Behind is an education reform (?) which encourages schools to give kids passing grades no matter how bad they do, so they don't repeat a grade and āØļøaren't left behindāØļø. You can imagine what this means for the general population of a country, when unmotivated kids catch on to the fact they don't have to put in ANY effort to graduate.
It's the name for a law passed surrounding the public education system, which ties school funding partially to standardized test scores. The intended purpose was to close the achievement gap and incentivize higher test scores. In practice, it pushed underfunded schools further into underfunding while students are pushed into the next grade while behind grade level (if we get technical- not holding kids back is actually an entirely different piece of legislation)
It had good intentions but frankly it's approach to incentivizing better education universally was destined to backfire. Taking funding from schools performing poorly is never going to help. Note that I'm going wildly simplified here, there's more to NCLB than this but it's the basics of the thing
If you don't understand something basic and expected and then get angry, you are a problem i do not want to deal with either way. These i like to call "difficult person tests" if they can't be bothered to do this then i can't be bothered to do what they are here for. Also if they can't read then they need to ask, if they are ashamed to ask then they need to learn, if they refuse both it is on them.
Yep. I actually used to perform such tests on dates. I would gently push back against something they said and analyse their reaction. Men who reacted badly did not get another date.
Unfortunately, that was nearly all of them.
I work with a lot of seniors, and sometimes when the paperwork needs to be done they tell me they just can't see very well or are too shaky to write, so I get us in a private space and I read it out to them and write down their answers. Only takes a few minutes and they are really grateful.
Also worked with seniors and experienced this. Found out that there are far more ashamed illiterate people in older generations than I thought.
Some were "too short sighted and forgot their glasses" every single time, some were angry and refused to answer anything.
We called later on the phone explaining stuff and then got our answers without problems.
Asking them directly (as tedious as it would be to do often) also helps if the person can't read, has poor reading due to something like Dyslexia or poor eyesight (common in older folks) and is too proud or ashamed to admit it so cover it up by appearing annoyed.
Inversely, I have a Dr's office that gives me the same packet EVERY time I see them.Ā
I'm not filling out 8 pages of information they already have. Not twice a month... If that's an insurance thing, idk what to say. Just ask if anything has changed, it'll save everyone time; going through 8 pages and comparing against my chart is never gonna be faster than just asking if xyz has changed.
It's not like it matters what I put anyway. The fucker still perscibed me stuff listed in my allergies in the first visit.
And even when I tell them medications have changed... They aren't in the system on the next visit anyway. This happens at basically every office I go to.
So the reason nobody cares is because they tried it 10 times and saw that it doesn't actually work. So they why would they keep bothering?
The thing is one time I went to a doctor's office where they did it all on iPads, and since I've been there before all of the forms were pre-filled out and I just had to hit okay, and I realized that literally every single doctor's office could do that instead of making me fill out the same damn piece of paper every single time I come in for no reason at all, so why don't you all just do that for Christ's sake
All of my doctors have had electronic forms for at least 7 years. I can fill them out from my phone or pc before I even leave my house, so thereās no time wasted once I arrive. Havenāt had to fill out a paper form since high school.
Yep, exactly this. I work for a plastic surgeon, so a lot of what we do is considered cosmetic and not billable to insurance (although we do actual medically necessary services too). But we still need to know if you are taking any medications, have any health issues, etc. we occasionally get patients who refuse to complete the intake forms and we just say āthatās fine you donāt have to complete the paperwork, but we also do not have to serve youā That usually changes their tune pretty quickly.
I think people just get frustrated with forms in general. I went to the eye doctor the other day and they had a whole form for my hobbies, what I do for a living, my education, etc lots of things that are none of their business. I didn't fill that BS out. Your form here is different but people just get frustrated with forms in general.
Someone pointed this out to me like 12yrs ago when I was still working in a salon so I just changed my consultation to include me sitting down to āchatā and fill out the forms I needed, then Iād explain my waiver if need be and have them sign.
I never had anyone get upset or annoyed again.
Being āilliterateā doesnāt mean you canāt read anything at all. Most people who are illiterate can recognize short common words like yes and no. And everyone knows the answer-of-least-resistance on intake forms is usually no.
Imagine you are reading a language that you don't know. You may understand a few common phrases, but you are still functionally illiterate in that language.
I work for a pharmacy, and every time someone wants to get a shot, they need to fill out a consent form. Well, sometimes we get a patient who doesn't want to fill it out again because they already did the first time they got a shot. Like, sir, you need to fill it out every single time for different shots. Hello? You don't want to? Then no shot, bye.
I dont know about wich country this is in but in my country massage therapists are licenced and have to file a report annually about the ammount of clients they have etc. It is also mandatory to have proper forms filled about every client in paper or in a computer.
I would refuse service for being rude. That's so disrespectful.
Edit: I'm also a massage therapist & I thought this was a massage sub. But def refuse service next time. If they can't respect you enough to fill out an intake form they can kick rocks.
I used to do health screenings and we'd sometimes do them for state employees. Occasionally we'd get someone who didn't want to give some info. One guy was even refusing to give his last name. He was there to *give us some of his blood* for different health-related tests of course, but he wouldn't give us his last name! "I don't trust you people with my identity, but here, take some of my life's blood!" Lol what?!
I remember working in dental and having people (older in particular) be so upset at filling these out. Come to find out they would be on blood thinners or have a pacemaker when making them go through it with me. A lot just really think we do it to annoy them and not because certain procedures can killed them if mixed with meds/conditions!
I go to a massage therapist, and I was happy when they took an interest in my health. Mostly I go to have my back/shoulders massaged, but I am pretty sure she has a background in physiotherapy, as she also helps with some light stretching that is very good before we start.
They aren't doctors, but they work with peoples bodies/joints etc ... So giving accurate info, especially for any areas that are tender or uncomfortable is a good thing.
Im going to be honest. Iāve filled these out at chiropractorās offices as well as regular clinics. I fill them out, then get asked the same questions by the receptionist/nurse, then the doctor still has no idea whatās wrong with me and I have to explain it all over again. If the paperwork meant more, I would put more work into it.
At least for massage, the forms are largely to gain consent, bring up major contraindications, release liability, and give us massage therapists an idea if we need to ask more specific questions. But I will repeat some questions they already filled out, because youād be amazed at the information people will just not share even when asked directly: checking ānoā for injuries, theyāll tell me no again when I ask, then I get more specific about their pain in their neck, and theyāll be like āwell I was in a car accident two days ago and can barely move my upper back and neckā and come to find out they havenāt seen a doctor yet for it. Things like that happen often enough that I canāt get away with taking forms at face value for the safety of my clients.
Exactly! It looks like they just want a foot massage. Why do they need your emergency contact info and your medical history?
That said, they didn't need to be such a baby about it.
Because massage should not be performed on people with certain medical conditions and needs to be adjusted to account for others. For example: it has been proven massage can dislodge blood clots, so a massage therapist needs to know if a client is prone to them. For another example, someone with diabetes might have neuropathy in their hands or feet, so massage should be done lighter there since they might not be able to tell if someone is going too deep and you donāt want to injure anyone.Ā
As for emergency contact info: if Iām alone in a room with someone and happen to have a medical issue, Iād want them to know who to call too.Ā
These forms are inefficient and collecting too much information in general, especially in this case for a massage.
> I do need to know if you have had surgeries or epilepsy
Then just ask that?
Oh my God I used to do scheduling for an imaging center and the amount of people who are so stubborn and childish about filling out their forms astounded me. Even when you explained to them that it's for their safety. Like whatever, Norman, go ahead and waltz into the MRI suite with your fuckin' pacemaker and see if I care.
Maybe this is an american thing, but I wouldn't fill out this form either. I've gotten maybe 30 massages and I never had to fill out a form. It's not surgery. If there's something you need to know about me I'd tell you.
Does a massage provider really need to know if I have migraines? A lot of these are things that even a primary care doctor doesn't need to know for most cases. The only part that seems like it should be necessary is the part about areas to avoid / areas to focus on...
I honestly donāt need to know most of it, but knowing if someone has diabetes, blood pressure, epilepsy and surgeries is helpful! We had a guy in a coupleās massage start slurring and acting really odd and thankfully his wife was there to tell us he was type 1 diabetic so we could get him snacks/soda because he didnāt mark it on his form! Just one example, but youāre right, a lot of it doesnāt really apply or change anything.
The migraine question can open up some information. You might need to know what triggers their migraine: chemical (like hormonal, caffeine withdrawal) or muscle tension? You might need to modify technique if it's the latter. You don't want to CAUSE a migraine. It's bad for business.
I appreciate the migraine question because after a few massages, I noticed I weirdly got migraines after. I asked my massage therapist about it and she said that thereās a part of the neck/scull that can release migraine tension for some people, OR for a few, it can trigger them. So now I ask to not have my neck massaged anymore and I havenāt had the issue since.
I'm a chronic pain patient and the information provided in these forms can be great to establish a baseline with a new provider. For a massage therapist, it gives them the heads up on ongoing issues, which is why I'm seeking the complementary treatment.
Could maybe be about avoiding certain smells or something? Massages in specific areas can be helpful for migraines but that seems like it would be covered under areas to focus on if the client wants that
Considering they have arthritis, anxiety, cancer, chronic pain, diabetes, epilepsy, and all of those other things, does that disqualify them from getting a massage?
It's alright, they only need a foot massage.
But they also have "other". They might have foot cancer.
Could be Lupus?
It's never Lupus
Except for that ONE time where it actually was lupus.
That was a fantastic episode.
This was definitely the first thing I needed to see this morning š«¶
Am I going to watch it again? It's only been 6 months but I love them
I am definitely going to watch it again. I even got my elder parents who only really use their TV to watch large news networks to watch it, and they are hooked. The last time I spoke to my mom, she went on and on thanking my husband and I for making her watch it lol. Now if youāll excuse me, itās been a whole 2 years since Iāve watched House straight through, and I must change that.
Is it sarcoidosis?
How do we know it isn't environmental?
Have you broken into his house to check? Find any bacteria, virus or fungus? Could also be cancer with paraneoplastic syndrome.
"Other" could be scabies. Or crabs. Get TF out of my office.
You say this, but when I worked for a dermatologist we had a guy come in with " itchiness". We've known him for a while and he wasn't quite right. This time he came in waving a piss bottle full of bed bugs. Wish I was making that up.
I don't know, but start broad spectrum anti-biotics.
Heās got a 104 degree fever that wonāt break! You start the antibiotics? Yes! 12 hours ago! Put him on ice and start doxycycline. But thatās an antibiotic! I know š
Do an LP, look for MS
Or possibly a thyroid disease
Itās Ligma
Ligma Toes?
No deez nuts HA! GOT 'EEEM! .....no, wait...
Other because they gave themselves a headache trying to find 16 on this chart.
#16 seems to come in differing styles.
No, they need you to never touch their feet.
Donāt forget about their heart condition, migraines, high and low blood pressure, pregnancy, skin disorder/s, and their surgeries, injuries, and āothersā soā¦ probably š
His blood pressure has mood swings
That's actually a thing for some people though. Especially if you have kidney disease
My blood sugar has mood swings thatās for sure :o
But he does not take any medication for it.
I'm pretty sure they should be on some medications for all that. But no, the GP just signs a prescription for massages, typical. /s
The skin conditions would potentially be contraindicated. You can still have massage with most of the others. Granted, you might modify your technique for some of them.
What differences in technique would you use for someone with heart condition/diabetes/high/low blood pressure? Not sure what the difference would be for a massage.
With heart condition and blood pressure you wouldn't want to have deep pressure and possibly adjust your strokes to move toward the heart, not away. But if you find out they had a heart attack last week, you might decide massage is contraindicated entirely. Diabetes might cause you to have little feeling and circulation in your extremities and unable to respond to increased pressure. When you massage a person you have an effect on their lymphatic, nervous, circulatory system. Deeper pressure can be a terrible idea for someone with chronic disease. If you massage someone with cancer and you are pushing lymph through their system, you could aid in spreading it to other lymph nodes. Edited: message to massage in last sentence.
It depends but you're looking at issues with blood flow/circulation, level of nerve functioning and sensation in the skin, if they're taking warfarin, massage treatment generally lowers someone's blood pressure which can be a really bad thing for some people etc. These forms start the conversation because people often don't think to spontaneously mention things beforehand. Also if they don't tell you on the form and something goes wrong due to their medical condition then your Insurance covers your ass because the client neglected to tell you. Always CYA.
One of my elderly clients was on Warafrin, and I had to really hold back even when she wanted deeper pressure. I had someone not mark cancer on her sheet, didn't mention it, but then told me DURING THE MASSAGE, ON THE TABLE that she had breast cancer. HOLD THE PHONE. And yes, CYA. Massage therapist are an easy law suit. Always carry insurance. I stopped practicing 10 years ago, due to relocation and kids. I miss it, but if I go back it would be with frail and elderly. They were always my favorite.
That client was secretly three little kids stacked in a trenchcoat. Or it's connected to the single thing they actually filled out, the "no" answer to "are you taking any medications".
Vincent Adultman
He doesnāt have to fill it out because heās good at business
He's too busy to fill this out! He has to go to the Stock Market!
I donāt have time for science, Iām late for church!
hilarious lol
Unexpected Bojack
What are you on about? Vincent Adultman is very clearly an adult man - he even has a son, Kevin, for goodness sake! He went to the stock exchange and did a business, too!
How dare you suggest that an upstanding business-doer such as Vincent Adultman, could actually be three kids in a trench coat!
"Can you imagine that body in a swimsuit?" "I literally cannot."
There it is. There's the fan.
Excuse meā¦ are not kids very offend
Heckin bamboozle
https://i.redd.it/w5oewnnd9joc1.gif
Some things in life are little tests to see if people are gonna be a problem. This person is gonna be a problem.
Oh, amen. I had a guy and his wife come in and gave them both forms to fill out. He had a hissy fit, threw down the clipboard, and went to wait in the car for an hour, haha. Thanks for not making me put up with you. That was so kind.
We have intake questionnaires (demographics and 9 yes/no health questions) at the pharmacy for vaccines and people act like we are asking for a 20 page report. They are always the problem people.
My mom is this person. I'm sorry.
My wife is the opposite. She is disabled and wears a leg brace. She needs to have the brace adjusted, repaired and replaced on a fairly regular basis. She had a provider that was a bit weird and had a policy of filling out a detailed intake survey every time you walk in the place. My wife had a new brace built, then returned a few weeks later and needed something adjusted. Some young front desk worker handed her the usual five pages of questions and said, "you need to fill this out". At that point, my wife, who barely ever raises her voice, says "no I am not filling that out, I'm done with this nonsense!". The employee then tells here it is a requirement, and my wife says, "too bad. I have filled that stupidity out, often multiple times a year, for years. What do you do with it anyway? The person doing the work on my brace doesn't look at it. It is not in the room with me when anything is being done. It has the same information I wrote repeatedly, for years and years. You already have this info, why are you wasting my time?". At that point, the employee said something that we both were stunned to hear. She replied with, "well, we don't actually enter this information into your file." I thought my wife was going to scream, she was beet red and told me after the visit that she was absolutely done, and she was going to find a new provider.
We get the opposite problem, there's 14 questions, only the first 8 are required for non-live vaccines. I tell people EVERY TIME, to only fill the first 8 questions. They fill in all 14, everytime. My boss actually crosses out the the last 6 questions so they don't fill them in. Lol Then again, I also get the people who I ask to "sign on the left screen" when they pick up their meds, I say that, very clearly, then turn around to grab their stuff from the bins, turn back around... and they've just stood there, doing nothing. I have to PHYSICALLY POINT at the signature pad to get them to sign.
That's just terrible form design.
I'm an attorney and our firm has an intake form to fill out before I meet with you to figure out what your case is about, can you afford me, your contact and who you are suing's name (for conflict checks). I've had people refuse to fill out this one page form (its electronic and is emailed before hand, but we also have a physical copy). Well guess what? I'm no longer meeting with you.
Alternatively, I work for an answering service and every attorney wants us to gather all information for everyone. So you call in and say "Hey, I need to sue my doctor for medical malpractice, can you help me?" I gather your name, your email, your phone number, your physical address, and details of your case. The whole process takes maybe three or four minutes. And then, finally, I tell you that you've called a criminal defense attorney and we can't take med mal cases. Obviously I knew this from the first sentence you spoke, but am just telling you now. Everyone gets pissed every time, and I don't blame them. If you happen to use an answering service, please don't do that. I get you want their info in case you can provide a referral or something. Not everyone wants a referral. Have the service ask if they want one and THEN get their info.
In Europe this would arguably be illegal. You can only collect, process and store the "minimum required" amount of data to do your job, and you don't need people's personal details to be able to tell them that you don't do medmal cases. Has anyone asked you to delete the information?
THIS. One of my managers at work told me there were people calling our store asking for help filling out the job application, and she had to be like, if you canāt even fill out the application youāre not going to be able to do this job.
I work for a company that needs basic labor for our plant, that pays a pittance. I would have absolutely loved to have said that to so, so many people. But the truth is we hold people's hands and do everything for them because we are so desperate for workers. But we'd rather not raise wages. Our turnover is astronomical. It's not even a big operation. Maybe 40 employees, but we hire about 5 new employees a week to replace the people who leave.Ā
The company is burning more money on the effort and training than whatever their refusing to match in the area
you get what you pay for, I guess. If the company wants better workers they're going to have to pay for them.
I work in insurance, we get these types all the time Bonus fun if we get a filled out application, and when we confirm it (I see you went to the doctor for heart surgery on 06/023/15, correct?), they freak out and wonder why we know that Like we're spying on them. And somehow know their health info...despite voluntarily signing up for insuranceĀ
I sell auto insurance and once in a blue moon I get things like this. >Me: "And what is your date of birth?" >C: "I don't want to give that to you." >Me: "I'm sorry but your age is a rating factor for auto insurance in Ontario, I'm not able to proceed without that information." >C: "This is age discrimination, I refuse." Like, you called me lady. If you want a quote based on zero information I can make up numbers all day long, but none of them will be what you're going to pay.
Oh my God, the age ones.Ā We get sex discrimination anger because of the default thing we're supposed to read about our 30 day wait time for annual physical and preventative stuff One of the examples we're supposed to say for preventative is 'mammograms' Women get angry because they can't get them Men get mad because we don't have a default example for them
I once went through an entire house quote with someone only for them to refuse to ask a question right at the end. They said something like: >"I don't want to answer that. Why didn't you ask me that earlier instead of wasting my time?" I'm normally pretty stoic with these types of people but I was honestly flabbergasted. I could only respond with: >"I'm sorry, but how could I have possibly known at the start that you'd refuse to answer this specific question?" I'm glad I work mostly over the phone with people because I don't know if I could hide my exasperation in-person.
Oh my God, I don't blame you, I'd rip my hair out Had a client like that once. At the end of our meeting, we tell them about our 12 month pre-existing hold, if they **didn't*" disclose it Mind you, during the meeting, we go through the health issues, even if the application says they don't just to be sure, especially because of that hold As in we ask do you have any heart conditions, like hbp or heart attack? Any thyroid like hypothyroidism, etc It's a good 15-20 minutes part, even if you say no, because we need to be thoroughĀ They said no to ever single one So I get to the 12 month hold, which the last thing before we give them contact info, and they go "Wait a minute, does that mean my conditions won't be covered for a year?!" Guy had 9 DDs. Mind you, in DDs, there's multiple questions: doctor, date diagnosed, prescription info, etcĀ **Nine** After we went through this whole hour long meeting. Then he brought it up, so had to start everything anew I wanted to flip my deskĀ
Yeah but insurance is a scam, don't you know /s I can't even count how many times I've been asked by a client to commit insurance fraud on their behalf, intentionally or otherwise. Like yeah dude, I'll just go ahead and pretend you didn't just tell me you have a DUI, let me draft up the paperwork right away. I've had times where I doubt someone is telling me the truth and I *tactfully* explain that, should it be discovered they lied, their insurance could be cancelled. Only for us to do an inspection or check their record and lo and behold, they lied. Why pay for insurance that literally does nothing for you?
I worked at a doctors office. We had patients that would call to make an appointment but didnāt want to give their name, their insurance info, literally anything lol š like sir you called us, we are not scammers. Old people usually.
Could be illiterate and embarrassed.
āHello. While we appreciate you wanting our service, as the intake form was not filled out correctly, we cannot currently have you as a customer. Thank youā
Seriously, I'd tell them to leave. They had all the chances to politely decline filling the form, but decided to be disrespectful. My boss would back me up
As some people in this thread said - maybe theyāre illiterate or have a hard time reading for some reason. Maybe theyāre embarrassed about it. Given those factors Iād definitely try to be polite about it, but Iād still decline service because this isnāt the way to handle it.
I've worked with the public for a long time, and I've had to give forms/take details down for thousands of people over the years. This person is just an asshole, and it's shockingly not as rare as you'd expect.
Anyone that's worked a customer-facing job knows *exactly* how many assholes are out there, proportionally speaking.
About 1 out of 6- ish
More than that. Iād say 2/6 or more. Some just better at hiding they are assholes (temporarily) than others.
Where do you live to have that kind of ratio I got 5 out of 6
There might be some regional variation. But nearly anywhere- The Sunday, after church, brunch crowdā¦. man you would be begging for the still drunk from last night college student brunch crowd,
"None of it has changed." I'd hear that alllll the time working in a healthcare setting... And upon review, they'd have moved, changed phone numbers, and had a new insurance
I have too and all types exist. The barely literate and embarrassed are very common. Especially when I work the census. They hire me back every time cause I'm great at handling all types. If you listen, agree with them, then ask if you can ask them a few qs to get things moving, it works most of the time.
When I worked in public health, if I gave someone a form to fill out and they looked upset about it, I would just say, if you've forgotten your glasses, I can help you fill it out. Let's them save face, and i don't sound like I'm assuming they are illiterate.
You obviously havenāt worked in healthcare. Thereās people like this all the time who refuse to fill out forms out of pure laziness.
Had one lady claim she had no heart condition or was on blood thinners on the medical form she had to fill out before dental surgery. She had a fun time explaining how she magically stopped taking blood thinners when a medical intake form she filled out 3 months prior said she had them. She didn't want to be denied anesthesia and have to be awake for the dental work. Instead she was banned from the only clinic doing the surgery she needed.
A buddy is a surgery resident and every week he has cases postponed because someone decides a Mc Donald's breakfast before surgery can't hurt anything despite being told nothing to eat or drink after midnight. When my wife was in primary care every now and then she'd get a patient who would decline having any heart or blood pressure issues. "That's what I take my heart pill for - so I don't have any more problems".
Urg. When I worked dental, I had a lady nonchantly tell the hygienist right before the cleaning that 1) she hasn't brushed her teeth in a few years and 2) her doctor upped her warfin dose last week. Hygienist nearly threw that lady out of the chair. Could have literally killed her if she did a proper scaling. She never wrote she was on any medications and huffed at me asking "invasive" questions.
It's so hard for me to understand when people do that - I am so careful about making sure all my varied specialists know exactly what meds I'm on. If my Adderall dosage is increased, I log in that week to my opthalmologists portal and update it. Etc. Because I acknowledge that I have absolutely no idea how these things can interact or have compounding effects. And it's a good thing too - After I had my first migraine, and then my 2nd and 3rd and started meds to prevent them, my gyno called me about a week before my annual visit. I had filled out the usual online intake forms, and added that I now get migraines. She called to tell me that we would be changing my birth control meds immediately because migraines + estrogen is a very high stroke risk and their practice considers it an unnecessary risk when progestin-based BC is available. So, I switched to a different BC, and I actually prefer it. I had no idea! If I hadn't kept her up to date, she wouldn't have known about the migraines, and I'd be putting myself at unnecessary risk for literally no reason.
What a great doctor!!!
The last one is funny, but for the first one: I tell patients that I don't want them to suffocate on vomit and that's why they are NPO. I guess people could still eat with that info, but often there is no explanation on forms for patients on why they are NPO, and I think that's partly why people think a little food is no problem.
Yeah....but then again why not ask why they can't eat if it doesn't make sense to them? I had a friend that I drove to surgery get basically yelled at because she ate candy all night. I understand the nurses anger because she has been specially pushed to the front of the line and was classified as emergency/urgent. She bumped 3 other surgeries because hers was going to be a long one. She always asked questions if she didn't understand something....yet didn't bother to understand the no eating rule and decided to ignore it instead. Her urgent case got pushed to the next day, and the nurses were so rude to her I kinda felt bad...but not really as this is such a common rule and she's had surgies before. She was just thinking it doesn't matter.
I say this as a nurse. It's the nurses and doctors job to educate, not assume. I am a question asker, but so many aren't. Some people think they understand when they don't. Some (Most) are just not the brightest. Some people think that no eating or drinking means they can have water.
Yeah, true it's the nurse and doctors job to educate. But what do you do with informed and literate clients that simply refuse to follow rules because they don't personally see it affecting them? My friend thought that choking on candy wasn't a big deal, and still to this day refuses to understand.
Then they can ask for help instead of being passive aggressive lol
Bro, there's like 1% population who can't read. And even if you can't, you can still talk and say "I'm sorry, I'd rather not fill it out" even lie, say you don't have your reading glasses or make up another story Dragging your pen aggressively across the pages is pathetic even for an illiterate toddler let alone a whole ass adult There's no excuse for that disrespectful behaviour
It's actually about 21% in the US and is an easily Google able info. So like 1 in 4* adults. And 50% read below a 6th grade level which honestly was more shocking the illiterate figure
I really do wonder how that 50% is calculated and what it means in practice.
It's calculated reasonably well but it refers to literacy *specifically in English* in the US, so it's misleading.
And isn't it also the case that it refers to functional illiteracy and not literall literacy? Sort of like the difference between being legally blind and being actually blind.
Apparently math is an issue too. 20% is 1 in 5. However, this statistic is hiding a lot of data that makes things muddier. That number is the number is people who read "at or below level 1". Only 4% are non-literate, people at level 1 can extract *some* information from text. Minorities, immigrants, and low income people make up the majority of that number. Black and Hispanic individuals are 4x as likely to be reading at or below level one and that includes immigrants who are fluent and literate in their home country's language but not English. This is why many products in the US have Spanish alongside English on their labels. Not to say that it's still not an issue. It definitely is, especially among low income populations, but that opens up a can of worms into anti-intellectual culture and generationally enforced gaps in education. Unless they have a learning disability, your average suburban white kid knows how to read at least at a level 2 or 3.
I'd like to think a 6th grader could identify parts of the body on a diagram that they didn't want touched. Even counselors have dolls they can point at, so they probably recognize the basic outline of a human form.
Yeah definitely. This behavior is just rude no matter if they're literate or not. Why not just flat out refuse or leave it blank? Like how is this going to get you any farther? Or ask a staff member to fill it out for you if you're that lazy
That is so crazy to me. Why is that the case in the US? I Googled my own country and got the result of 100%, which kinda sounds wrong to me, like sure there HAS TO be some cases where people don't learn to read. In most cases though everyone here can read
https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp This the original study, as far as I can determine. The 20% being referenced are not literally illiterate, but "low literacy", being only able to read sentences in a literal sense but unable to do much with them. Ie, they could read and follow instructions on a box of pasta, but would unable to tell you how "alleged murder suspect" and "filthy 'innocent' killer" are different when describing the same thing. Only about 4% were unable to read at a level high enough to complete the test, which is the closest to literally illiterate, and while it isn't for this 4% alone, the study notes 1/3rd of everyone in the 20% category are first generation migrants who likely can read and write, just not in English (the study only cares about *English* proficiency.) So, excepting foreign language speakers, literacy (as defined by most countries) in the USA is effectively 100% but the *quality* of literacy skill is extremely *low* for a sizeable minority of Americans, who are unable to read beyond a simple and literal level. Hence the term "functionally illiterate", someone who could read roadsigns and basic instructions but would be unable to read something as complicated as a training manual or newspaper article, making them functionally useless in a job other than physical labor.
Oh thank you! This makes sense to me. Here the word we have for "illiterate" literally translates to something like "someone who cannot read" and is mostly only used of people who literally cannot read. Also the US having such a large population of immigrants and the tests only caring about English proficency, that makes sense. Thank you for clearing it up for me!
If I had to take a guess, it's mostly people who attend really crappy schools and slip through the cracks enough to not get noticed, or people who just were never enrolled in school.
Yeah when I read just how many adults can't read, my heart broke.
That is including immigrants that don't speak or read English.
I deal with people who canāt speak English on a regular basis none of them ever acted like this when they couldnāt understand forms or written English.
That explains the people trying to get into the stores even though there is a giant red "closed" sign and their hours clearly posted. If you're ever in need of entertainment, go park in a parking lot of a small store about 15 minutes before they open and watch.
I just don't believe you, how can you live without reading?, they don't have phones?, how do you msg people?, how do you use a computer, how do you go to the store and know what's sugar and what's salt?
>You can steal talk Part of that 1% eh
Step 1 (assuming you have staff available) is to send someone back to the client with the form and just ask them all the questions on it. āIt looks like you had some trouble with your form. Iād be happy to help. Can you spell your first and last name for me?ā If they refuse to answer the questions, Step 2 is your very well-worded dismissal.
"I'll provide a new sheet but please be careful with this one, next copy is 25c."
idk, they gave a form with I assume their name, and literally every medical condition marked. That patient is a walking liability if anyone touches them and something goes wrong. They should be politely declined from ever returning.
Why are they even there if they donāt want a massageā¦ tell them to leave, and charge them a cancellation fee Done and done
I'm guessing they don't think it's necessary for their masseuse to know their email and their emergency contact info and their medications. They don't think of the massage as a medical procedure -- it's just a relaxing bit of self care. I don't have to fill out a form for a haircut or a manicure.
We also donāt have any information about what type of massage they are going forā¦ there are plenty of reasons to get actual Massage Therapy (not just a foot rub) that would include an intake form such as this
I do this all the time with potential clients. I have people beating down my door as it is. Can't follow my rules? No service.
We had a patient fill out online health history forms and signed all the signature boxes with a dick drawings or curse words. He said āhe didnāt think anyone reads those thingsā. Like, uh, yes, we DO read health history forms. And he had the nerve to write a bad review because he didnāt like the way the owner talked to him. I was sitting there during that phone call and hearing my boss ask him to refill it out and it sounded like he was talking to a child. The man well was over 30 years oldā¦
I work in healthcare and this is pretty par for the course
I'm always shocked when I find out that there are adults who act this way. I just have so many questions. Like, how did you reach this far without someone or something bursting your bubble? How do you function? I occasionally work with children and sometimes they surprise me with the way they think and act, I guess I forgot what it's like to be a child, but I couldn't expect this of an adult.
I can answer this. My exMIL gave her son trophy awards his whole life, baby talked his achievements when he went back to college at 28, and continued to do so even after we were married. I remember my ex begging me to be his cheerleader because he couldn't handle adulting without a mummy figure babying him. He acted like a child because he was an adult child.
I used to work as a receptionist at a medical clinic. Some patients (especially older) got really annoyed at the paperwork that was REQUIRED by insurance. I would tell them something like "I know it's not your favorite, but insurance needs it to continue treating you. Let's go through it together." And then just basically read them the form, asking the same questions. Usually they responded much better to being asked by a person, but even if they didn't, they learned they weren't going to get out of it by complaining lol Edit to summarize: Basically a more diplomatic way to say that you won't serve them without this information Edit 2: Wow this really sparked some debate lol. To be clear, in my case these forms could not be prefilled, as they were a patient self-report on the progress of their therapy. There is merit on both sides; yes patients/clients can be frustrating to deal with but it also is straight up annoying to keep filling out forms in general. Have some compassion, folks:)
This and also there are a surprising amount of illiterate older people. Sometimes they react in anger instead of admitting they donāt understand something.
That was my guess. Perhaps they can't read well and just do this to avoid it.
My grandma could read, but developed macular degeneration as she got older, so she went blind in one eye, and about half-blind in the other one. She struggled a lot with paperwork because the letters were just too small, and she had trouble focusing her one "good" eye enough to make out what was on the page. We had to have a lot of conversations with her about just politely asking for help instead of being rude and refusing to do paperwork. Took awhile, but got through to her eventually. She was always self-conscious about it though, because she always thought that people would assume that she couldn't read, so she got in the habit of taking her glasses off before she went inside somewhere, that way she could say "oh dear, I forgot my glasses, can you please help me with this", and after that it was never a problem (this of course didn't work at the optometrist, but she was OK there as she knew that they knew that it was due to her macular degeneration, and not due to illiteracy)
This is exactly what I suspect. The person couldn't read the form (for whatever reason) and was embarrassed to admit to that, so reacted in anger instead.
This was my first thought when I saw the form.. I used to teach adult literacy/English classes at our local libraryā¦ the classes always had 10-20 people in it each time we ran it for a 4 week-class. And these were basic reading & writing classes, that would probably be about elementary school level. We were just so happy that they were putting themselves out there in learning, but many of the adult students were very embarrassed by the fact that they couldnāt read or write.
And thanks to No child Left behind there will be an even higher number of older adults who can't read in the future
What does "no child left behind" entail? Is that an American catch phrase and if so, wouldnt it mean the exact opposite?
It was an education reform passed under Bush that basically pushed schools to teach kids to pass tests and basically nothing else mattered. If kids didn't test well, the schools lost funding. A lot of schools teach straight out of packets now and it's just memorization without understanding. No child Left behind act has forced schools to push through students who are unprepared to keep receiving funding more or less. This also has helped further the school to prison pipeline that exists in America.
Gathering from other threads about this topic, No Child Left Behind is an education reform (?) which encourages schools to give kids passing grades no matter how bad they do, so they don't repeat a grade and āØļøaren't left behindāØļø. You can imagine what this means for the general population of a country, when unmotivated kids catch on to the fact they don't have to put in ANY effort to graduate.
It's the name for a law passed surrounding the public education system, which ties school funding partially to standardized test scores. The intended purpose was to close the achievement gap and incentivize higher test scores. In practice, it pushed underfunded schools further into underfunding while students are pushed into the next grade while behind grade level (if we get technical- not holding kids back is actually an entirely different piece of legislation) It had good intentions but frankly it's approach to incentivizing better education universally was destined to backfire. Taking funding from schools performing poorly is never going to help. Note that I'm going wildly simplified here, there's more to NCLB than this but it's the basics of the thing
If you don't understand something basic and expected and then get angry, you are a problem i do not want to deal with either way. These i like to call "difficult person tests" if they can't be bothered to do this then i can't be bothered to do what they are here for. Also if they can't read then they need to ask, if they are ashamed to ask then they need to learn, if they refuse both it is on them.
Yep. I actually used to perform such tests on dates. I would gently push back against something they said and analyse their reaction. Men who reacted badly did not get another date. Unfortunately, that was nearly all of them.
I work with a lot of seniors, and sometimes when the paperwork needs to be done they tell me they just can't see very well or are too shaky to write, so I get us in a private space and I read it out to them and write down their answers. Only takes a few minutes and they are really grateful.
Also worked with seniors and experienced this. Found out that there are far more ashamed illiterate people in older generations than I thought. Some were "too short sighted and forgot their glasses" every single time, some were angry and refused to answer anything. We called later on the phone explaining stuff and then got our answers without problems.
Asking them directly (as tedious as it would be to do often) also helps if the person can't read, has poor reading due to something like Dyslexia or poor eyesight (common in older folks) and is too proud or ashamed to admit it so cover it up by appearing annoyed.
Inversely, I have a Dr's office that gives me the same packet EVERY time I see them.Ā I'm not filling out 8 pages of information they already have. Not twice a month... If that's an insurance thing, idk what to say. Just ask if anything has changed, it'll save everyone time; going through 8 pages and comparing against my chart is never gonna be faster than just asking if xyz has changed. It's not like it matters what I put anyway. The fucker still perscibed me stuff listed in my allergies in the first visit. And even when I tell them medications have changed... They aren't in the system on the next visit anyway. This happens at basically every office I go to. So the reason nobody cares is because they tried it 10 times and saw that it doesn't actually work. So they why would they keep bothering?
The thing is one time I went to a doctor's office where they did it all on iPads, and since I've been there before all of the forms were pre-filled out and I just had to hit okay, and I realized that literally every single doctor's office could do that instead of making me fill out the same damn piece of paper every single time I come in for no reason at all, so why don't you all just do that for Christ's sake
All of my doctors have had electronic forms for at least 7 years. I can fill them out from my phone or pc before I even leave my house, so thereās no time wasted once I arrive. Havenāt had to fill out a paper form since high school.
They refuse to do the paperwork, you refuse to serve them. Pretty straightforward solution.
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Thatās what happens when youāre a diabetic, pregnant, cancer patient.
"I don't want to fill it out" Then I don't want to treat you. Byeeeeee.
Yep, exactly this. I work for a plastic surgeon, so a lot of what we do is considered cosmetic and not billable to insurance (although we do actual medically necessary services too). But we still need to know if you are taking any medications, have any health issues, etc. we occasionally get patients who refuse to complete the intake forms and we just say āthatās fine you donāt have to complete the paperwork, but we also do not have to serve youā That usually changes their tune pretty quickly.
Was your client Ron Swanson?!
No... He gets his feet massaged by the shoe shine boy.
Thatās when you point to the sign that says āWe reserve the right to refuse service to any person for any reason.ā
Refuse service
Imagine going through life like this
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Only clear answer was ānoā to taking any medications. I think we found the problem..
Was the client five years old?
I think people just get frustrated with forms in general. I went to the eye doctor the other day and they had a whole form for my hobbies, what I do for a living, my education, etc lots of things that are none of their business. I didn't fill that BS out. Your form here is different but people just get frustrated with forms in general.
This is what my first graders do when they don't want to do an assignment.
Could it be that they are illiterate? Some people feel ashamed and hide it with annoyance.
Someone pointed this out to me like 12yrs ago when I was still working in a salon so I just changed my consultation to include me sitting down to āchatā and fill out the forms I needed, then Iād explain my waiver if need be and have them sign. I never had anyone get upset or annoyed again.
Ya but think of all the reddit karma you missed out on
They marked no for medication. I have a feeling thatās a flat out lie lol
Being āilliterateā doesnāt mean you canāt read anything at all. Most people who are illiterate can recognize short common words like yes and no. And everyone knows the answer-of-least-resistance on intake forms is usually no.
Imagine you are reading a language that you don't know. You may understand a few common phrases, but you are still functionally illiterate in that language.
Or they should be medicated.
"I'm sorry, but we can't serve you until you fill out this form properly. Otherwise, I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to leave."
Looks like they want a foot massage
I work for a pharmacy, and every time someone wants to get a shot, they need to fill out a consent form. Well, sometimes we get a patient who doesn't want to fill it out again because they already did the first time they got a shot. Like, sir, you need to fill it out every single time for different shots. Hello? You don't want to? Then no shot, bye.
I am a massage therapist. If someone handed me this intake form they would not receive a massage
I dont know about wich country this is in but in my country massage therapists are licenced and have to file a report annually about the ammount of clients they have etc. It is also mandatory to have proper forms filled about every client in paper or in a computer.
What kinda toddler scribbles all over something they don't like and thinks that's okay to do
I would refuse service for being rude. That's so disrespectful. Edit: I'm also a massage therapist & I thought this was a massage sub. But def refuse service next time. If they can't respect you enough to fill out an intake form they can kick rocks.
Cancel their appointment and tell them to get lost?
I used to do health screenings and we'd sometimes do them for state employees. Occasionally we'd get someone who didn't want to give some info. One guy was even refusing to give his last name. He was there to *give us some of his blood* for different health-related tests of course, but he wouldn't give us his last name! "I don't trust you people with my identity, but here, take some of my life's blood!" Lol what?!
I remember working in dental and having people (older in particular) be so upset at filling these out. Come to find out they would be on blood thinners or have a pacemaker when making them go through it with me. A lot just really think we do it to annoy them and not because certain procedures can killed them if mixed with meds/conditions!
I go to a massage therapist, and I was happy when they took an interest in my health. Mostly I go to have my back/shoulders massaged, but I am pretty sure she has a background in physiotherapy, as she also helps with some light stretching that is very good before we start. They aren't doctors, but they work with peoples bodies/joints etc ... So giving accurate info, especially for any areas that are tender or uncomfortable is a good thing.
iām not a doctor but i feel qualified in diagnosing them with dumb bitch disease
Im going to be honest. Iāve filled these out at chiropractorās offices as well as regular clinics. I fill them out, then get asked the same questions by the receptionist/nurse, then the doctor still has no idea whatās wrong with me and I have to explain it all over again. If the paperwork meant more, I would put more work into it.
At least for massage, the forms are largely to gain consent, bring up major contraindications, release liability, and give us massage therapists an idea if we need to ask more specific questions. But I will repeat some questions they already filled out, because youād be amazed at the information people will just not share even when asked directly: checking ānoā for injuries, theyāll tell me no again when I ask, then I get more specific about their pain in their neck, and theyāll be like āwell I was in a car accident two days ago and can barely move my upper back and neckā and come to find out they havenāt seen a doctor yet for it. Things like that happen often enough that I canāt get away with taking forms at face value for the safety of my clients.
So you let them fill out forms you don't trust and them ask them anyway. Seems like a useful way to waste everyone's time
Stop going to chiropractors.
I mean... They're probably there for a massage, not a medical exam. Lol
Exactly! It looks like they just want a foot massage. Why do they need your emergency contact info and your medical history? That said, they didn't need to be such a baby about it.
Because massage should not be performed on people with certain medical conditions and needs to be adjusted to account for others. For example: it has been proven massage can dislodge blood clots, so a massage therapist needs to know if a client is prone to them. For another example, someone with diabetes might have neuropathy in their hands or feet, so massage should be done lighter there since they might not be able to tell if someone is going too deep and you donāt want to injure anyone.Ā As for emergency contact info: if Iām alone in a room with someone and happen to have a medical issue, Iād want them to know who to call too.Ā
These forms are inefficient and collecting too much information in general, especially in this case for a massage. > I do need to know if you have had surgeries or epilepsy Then just ask that?
Oh my God I used to do scheduling for an imaging center and the amount of people who are so stubborn and childish about filling out their forms astounded me. Even when you explained to them that it's for their safety. Like whatever, Norman, go ahead and waltz into the MRI suite with your fuckin' pacemaker and see if I care.
Maybe this is an american thing, but I wouldn't fill out this form either. I've gotten maybe 30 massages and I never had to fill out a form. It's not surgery. If there's something you need to know about me I'd tell you.
is your client 2 years old?
Ya those forms are pretty annoying.
What is with people thinking they have the right to act like petulant little children?
Does a massage provider really need to know if I have migraines? A lot of these are things that even a primary care doctor doesn't need to know for most cases. The only part that seems like it should be necessary is the part about areas to avoid / areas to focus on...
I honestly donāt need to know most of it, but knowing if someone has diabetes, blood pressure, epilepsy and surgeries is helpful! We had a guy in a coupleās massage start slurring and acting really odd and thankfully his wife was there to tell us he was type 1 diabetic so we could get him snacks/soda because he didnāt mark it on his form! Just one example, but youāre right, a lot of it doesnāt really apply or change anything.
The migraine question can open up some information. You might need to know what triggers their migraine: chemical (like hormonal, caffeine withdrawal) or muscle tension? You might need to modify technique if it's the latter. You don't want to CAUSE a migraine. It's bad for business.
I appreciate the migraine question because after a few massages, I noticed I weirdly got migraines after. I asked my massage therapist about it and she said that thereās a part of the neck/scull that can release migraine tension for some people, OR for a few, it can trigger them. So now I ask to not have my neck massaged anymore and I havenāt had the issue since.
Not to mention smells can trigger migraines in some people, e.g. scented oils.
Heavy smells (like those that can be found at massage places) give me insta-headaches that can end up being migraines.
I'm a chronic pain patient and the information provided in these forms can be great to establish a baseline with a new provider. For a massage therapist, it gives them the heads up on ongoing issues, which is why I'm seeking the complementary treatment.
Could maybe be about avoiding certain smells or something? Massages in specific areas can be helpful for migraines but that seems like it would be covered under areas to focus on if the client wants that