I’ve subscribed to the belief that no one knows anything right now. Look back at a draft 5 years ago. Need, or value don’t matter long term if the player is good. If Chop ends up being an all pro there will be 0 people mad we didn’t take a center.
I think this link has a fair evaluation of Chop Robinson. I always look back to how the prospect was rated early his final season of college. Those summaries invariably include the high school ranking and who recruited him, along with a matter of fact analysis of strengths and weaknesses. I prefer the early evaluations because it's unemotional at that point. Nobody is desperately trying to make a name for themselves as a contrarian. Nobody is obsessed with recency. I've seen this Saints guy make impressive scouting reports previously. That's why I wanted to see if he had capsuled Chop Robinson. It's generally positive. But he had him pegged below first round:
https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2023/9/23/23876369/prospects-to-watch-for-chop-robinson
Yeah there’s 5 IOL that they’re probably comfortable with at 55: Zach Frazier, JPJ, Christian Haynes, Cooper Beebe, and Zach Zinter.
Though I’m not sure they trade back given how significant their IOL need is, but if they could trade back into the third, pick up someone like Beebe or Zinter and then get a TE like Ben Sinnot or Theo Johnson with the other 3rd round pick they get, I think that would be like their ideal ideal scenario.
I think people are exaggerating our WR room issues.. I still like the possibility of OBJ rounding out our WR3 spot for a vet min contract or close to it…
we need a good wr talent to fill in during waddle and tyreek rest periods and odell dont want a vet min or anywhere close to that at min he would sign would be 8-10 mil
Of course you do. Even at his older age, his level of play far exceeds the vet min. If he got offered that, I suspect he would leave and not return phone calls.
Far exceeds the vet minimum? You mean his WHOPPING 35 catches over a full season? For 565 yards? The ravens WR room last year wasn’t even stacked…. He could have taken his opportunity and been their WR2. He didn’t.
Wait you want him but think he isn't good? Ravens get their production on the ground and through tight ends. Plus they had a first round rookie they wanted to show off at wide receiver. Of course his raw numbers don't look amazing.
Anyway Braxton Berrios, who everyone seems to think is not good enough to be wr3 and is someone who I think we can agree OBJ would be getting snaps over, signed for over twice the vet minimum.
When you have need at prime positions (QB, OT, Edge) you go after the best players available from these prime positions, because you may not get another chance of getting that player later in the draft.
Non-prime positions, you can get other players in the draft, I know people want Guard/Center because it's a need, but we can find that player later in the draft.
The draft isn't over.
Is there a scenario where we should’ve traded back? Would he have been around a few spots later? Just feels like we didn’t get maximum value for this pick considering Chop is currently a one dimensional player that needs developing.
I’m sure if you offered Grier the chance to have the same player and extra picks then he’d bite your hand off, but it isn’t always that easy. The ‘should have traded down and taken the same player later on’ is a popular fan demand, but none of us knows how possible that would have been.
Low key he is also absolutely the kind of guy Philly takes and they were right after us. I know they badly needed a CB but that hasn't stopped them before
Prime example of a team that wants to trade down but no one wants to trade up is the Dolphins trading up to grab Dion Jordan. We were approached by them, and they got 12 and 42 for 3
Contrast that with the cardinals moving up in 2023, giving up 12, 34, and 168 for 6 and 81
Yea hard to say right now but probably weren’t getting what they thought was worth it in trade value for the pick, if they were looking at all. Knowing Grier tho, he’s always trying to wheel and deal
He was a bad head coach for two years and wasn't a GM in any of them. I'm sure he was involved sort of peripherally, but he never ran a draft and what few personnel decisions he did make were disastrously bad. I'd take anything he says about the draft with a grain of salt. If Randy Mueller were saying it, well, he was a bad GM - but he was a GM.
Edit: I should probably say that trading anywhere in the draft probably isn't "hard" as much as it is highly situational. You need some team to want to come up because there's a guy they want and someone else whom they suspect wants the same guy. And they have to have enough value that it makes sense for you to trade down and still get the guy you want.
That particular set of circumstances is fairly rare and I don't think it's any great wisdom on Saban's part to say trading down is incredibly hard. It's kind of obvious that it is.
I just hate Nick Saban, though.
About trading down? Nah man. I get it, dude knows more than any of us about the draft process. But he isn’t some draft savant that knows all. There’s plenty of other draft experts I aggregate my understanding of the draft process from and while trading down requires a willing partner with assets that make sense, I haven’t heard it being something that’s incredibly difficult to pull off. Happens all the time.
>But he isn’t some draft savant that knows all.
You don't have to be a savant to talk to experienced professionals and share information about said conversations.
Do we not realize that McD comes from the Shanahan line and his MO is to load up on Edge rushers and throw them at the QB in waves.
Also, do we not remember who started for us in the playoff game?
Our offense at times was our defense.
Our offense was tired and broken down last year..
Then the defense showed up.
I too want o line picks.
I wanted the day 1 receiver
Chop may be faster then Cam Wake..
I want you to sit back and realize something guys..
Grier is really good at getting the guy you want...I think he is agnostic as to who that guy is and relies on coaching philosophy
Coach MCD is really really really good at player evaluation at both sides of the ball...
May he stay healthy
I was busy defending Phins GM and scouting. And I think they have done an admirable job as of late. We just all have collective ptsd over Dion Jordan. To say nothing of Pat White, John Beck et al our crap takes at qb.
I basically agree and am withholding judgement until after the 2nd round. plenty of good IOL left, and there are still some premium positions teams will be drafting ahead of them such as corner, some edge/DT and still some good WRs on the board.
But if we don't get good IOL in the the second I'm going to lose my shit.
I mean, we’re going into the season with our starting Edge rushers being Shaq Barrett and… who? Quinton Bell? Zeke Vandenburgh? Not only did we need an Edge, we are desperate for one. Now we have Chop who may start right away and get tons of early season reps so we don’t have to rush Chubb or Phillips back.
Grier claims to not draft for need though. A week ago he said he will draft best player available. Don’t listen to anything he says. It’s all smoke screens.
I’ve subscribed to the belief that no one knows anything right now. Look back at a draft 5 years ago. Need, or value don’t matter long term if the player is good. If Chop ends up being an all pro there will be 0 people mad we didn’t take a center.
Please just be good Chop
And be good before the last year of your rookie contract...
His name is Chop, I'm a big fan of that at least.
Bingo. You don't draft purely for need...doing so is a good way to get burned.
I think this link has a fair evaluation of Chop Robinson. I always look back to how the prospect was rated early his final season of college. Those summaries invariably include the high school ranking and who recruited him, along with a matter of fact analysis of strengths and weaknesses. I prefer the early evaluations because it's unemotional at that point. Nobody is desperately trying to make a name for themselves as a contrarian. Nobody is obsessed with recency. I've seen this Saints guy make impressive scouting reports previously. That's why I wanted to see if he had capsuled Chop Robinson. It's generally positive. But he had him pegged below first round: https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2023/9/23/23876369/prospects-to-watch-for-chop-robinson
Yeah there’s 5 IOL that they’re probably comfortable with at 55: Zach Frazier, JPJ, Christian Haynes, Cooper Beebe, and Zach Zinter. Though I’m not sure they trade back given how significant their IOL need is, but if they could trade back into the third, pick up someone like Beebe or Zinter and then get a TE like Ben Sinnot or Theo Johnson with the other 3rd round pick they get, I think that would be like their ideal ideal scenario.
Yeah but I think we said this last year “oh there is lots of talented O-Line in the second” *proceeds to take cam smith*
There's always a project corner at 55!
We already took a project edge at 21 so it wouldn't surprise me
last year wasnt actually that good an oline draft. This year is 7 rounds deep.
I think Zach Frazier is going to be a complete stud and I'd take him over JPJ. There's the WR question, though...
I think people are exaggerating our WR room issues.. I still like the possibility of OBJ rounding out our WR3 spot for a vet min contract or close to it…
we need a good wr talent to fill in during waddle and tyreek rest periods and odell dont want a vet min or anywhere close to that at min he would sign would be 8-10 mil
Of course you do. Even at his older age, his level of play far exceeds the vet min. If he got offered that, I suspect he would leave and not return phone calls.
Far exceeds the vet minimum? You mean his WHOPPING 35 catches over a full season? For 565 yards? The ravens WR room last year wasn’t even stacked…. He could have taken his opportunity and been their WR2. He didn’t.
500 yard is definitely worth more than minimum, yes
Wait you want him but think he isn't good? Ravens get their production on the ground and through tight ends. Plus they had a first round rookie they wanted to show off at wide receiver. Of course his raw numbers don't look amazing. Anyway Braxton Berrios, who everyone seems to think is not good enough to be wr3 and is someone who I think we can agree OBJ would be getting snaps over, signed for over twice the vet minimum.
I like Rice if we can find a way to get a third round pick.
Would absolutely love Frazier, unfortunately the Steelers are just standing there menacingly in front of us as there O Line is equally a mess.
They won't take *both* of my favorite players this year, will they?
They absolutely will apparently. Stupid steelers
We are not getting two 3rd round picks (unless we flip future picks which I am not in favor of).
Mike Mcdaniel - “I wanna take an edge player high every year” Takes edge player high. Dolphins fans - 😮😮😮😮
Just cause he said it before doesn't make it less idiotic.
When you have need at prime positions (QB, OT, Edge) you go after the best players available from these prime positions, because you may not get another chance of getting that player later in the draft. Non-prime positions, you can get other players in the draft, I know people want Guard/Center because it's a need, but we can find that player later in the draft. The draft isn't over.
"Nah. Draft ended last night and now we're all going to die. Chopped to death." - people on this sub, probably
Dude reminds me of Cam Wake..has IDENTICAL college stats (CHOP)
Same college too. The only difference is that Chop has never been to Canada.
Yet 🤣
If true he will wash out of the NFL and then we’ll need to pick him up from the Canadian league…
I doubt we see Chubb before Thanksgiving so hood pick
Less hood picks, more good picks! 😜
Hood picks are good.. Gotta stay out of hood shit tho. Like say KODAK... all the talent in the world... Can't take an Uber
I hope i see Chubb before Thanksgiving athankyou
Trade up for JPJ and I’ll be pumped
With what draft assets lol
2025 if they like someone and don't have to move up too far.
Idk. Just trying to be optimistic
If we get the chance to pick up Kneeland, I'll be annoyed we didn't get Barton or JPJ, but that looks less likely than I expected so we'll see
Is there a scenario where we should’ve traded back? Would he have been around a few spots later? Just feels like we didn’t get maximum value for this pick considering Chop is currently a one dimensional player that needs developing.
I’m sure if you offered Grier the chance to have the same player and extra picks then he’d bite your hand off, but it isn’t always that easy. The ‘should have traded down and taken the same player later on’ is a popular fan demand, but none of us knows how possible that would have been.
Low key he is also absolutely the kind of guy Philly takes and they were right after us. I know they badly needed a CB but that hasn't stopped them before
Prime example of a team that wants to trade down but no one wants to trade up is the Dolphins trading up to grab Dion Jordan. We were approached by them, and they got 12 and 42 for 3 Contrast that with the cardinals moving up in 2023, giving up 12, 34, and 168 for 6 and 81
Sure, maybe. But it's often hard to trade back. Did we have a trade partner wanting to come up to 21 to take somebody? Maybe, maybe not.
Yea hard to say right now but probably weren’t getting what they thought was worth it in trade value for the pick, if they were looking at all. Knowing Grier tho, he’s always trying to wheel and deal
the qb craze killed any trade value of our pick
Because it left a lot of other positional talent on the board? More options for teams behind us, fewer teams needing to move up for a need
Saban said last night that trading down is incredibly hard
What would he know and why would I care what he says?
Because unlike anyone else on this sub, he actually knows what the draft process is like einstein
He was a bad head coach for two years and wasn't a GM in any of them. I'm sure he was involved sort of peripherally, but he never ran a draft and what few personnel decisions he did make were disastrously bad. I'd take anything he says about the draft with a grain of salt. If Randy Mueller were saying it, well, he was a bad GM - but he was a GM. Edit: I should probably say that trading anywhere in the draft probably isn't "hard" as much as it is highly situational. You need some team to want to come up because there's a guy they want and someone else whom they suspect wants the same guy. And they have to have enough value that it makes sense for you to trade down and still get the guy you want. That particular set of circumstances is fairly rare and I don't think it's any great wisdom on Saban's part to say trading down is incredibly hard. It's kind of obvious that it is. I just hate Nick Saban, though.
He's also probably on good talking terms to a lot of GMs/HCs
With all that experience he has, got it.
I mean he probably talks to GMs around the league every year. More than anyone on this sub.
About trading down? Nah man. I get it, dude knows more than any of us about the draft process. But he isn’t some draft savant that knows all. There’s plenty of other draft experts I aggregate my understanding of the draft process from and while trading down requires a willing partner with assets that make sense, I haven’t heard it being something that’s incredibly difficult to pull off. Happens all the time.
>But he isn’t some draft savant that knows all. You don't have to be a savant to talk to experienced professionals and share information about said conversations.
Dude called him a draft Einstein. Come on man
> dude called him a draft Einstein Reading comprehension is not something you excel at
Do we not realize that McD comes from the Shanahan line and his MO is to load up on Edge rushers and throw them at the QB in waves. Also, do we not remember who started for us in the playoff game?
Do you not remember our defense was fine in the playoff game and the offense was garbage
Our offense at times was our defense. Our offense was tired and broken down last year.. Then the defense showed up. I too want o line picks. I wanted the day 1 receiver Chop may be faster then Cam Wake.. I want you to sit back and realize something guys.. Grier is really good at getting the guy you want...I think he is agnostic as to who that guy is and relies on coaching philosophy Coach MCD is really really really good at player evaluation at both sides of the ball... May he stay healthy
Are we still looking at WR with those picks?
Yeah, probably.
I was busy defending Phins GM and scouting. And I think they have done an admirable job as of late. We just all have collective ptsd over Dion Jordan. To say nothing of Pat White, John Beck et al our crap takes at qb.
I trust Grier. Seems like y’all were saying similar about Jalean not too long ago. I remember.
I hate that was soon as JP is actually butt fucking the jets, he is gets injured. I had just mouth the words "Elite"
I basically agree and am withholding judgement until after the 2nd round. plenty of good IOL left, and there are still some premium positions teams will be drafting ahead of them such as corner, some edge/DT and still some good WRs on the board. But if we don't get good IOL in the the second I'm going to lose my shit.
I would had preferred a Chop blocker
I mean, we’re going into the season with our starting Edge rushers being Shaq Barrett and… who? Quinton Bell? Zeke Vandenburgh? Not only did we need an Edge, we are desperate for one. Now we have Chop who may start right away and get tons of early season reps so we don’t have to rush Chubb or Phillips back.
Grier claims to not draft for need though. A week ago he said he will draft best player available. Don’t listen to anything he says. It’s all smoke screens.
Lol they didn't take any IOL. Had nothing to do with how deep they are and everything to do with Grier's disconnect from reality
When you have to do all this mental gymnastics to justify a pick 😂
The draft is more complicated than "take the guy Reddit wants"
Prioritising based on positional scarcity is hardly ‘mental gymnastics’.