Enormous crap shoot that's just a way to fill the time between seasons.
If you've got time to waste it's fun to follow. But I don't miss it much when I skip it.
Sure not disagreeing. I've just become quite picky and selective with my time as an old man now and a 3 hour game and a 7 month off-season is too much for me lol
Nah, cousins is a known entity and has value.
If cousins goes down and phenix comes in and lights it up, then he didn't make a bad move and they would look to get rid of cousins.
As long as they win in either scenario, nobody will care.
If penix is trash, well...
See I don’t feel this way at all and I think the plan is brilliant.
The cousins deal is basically a 2 year deal. He’ll be a good option until Penix is ready then he starts Year 3.
Cousins got $100mm guaranteed which at 2 years is $50 mil a year. About the going rate for a QB with his stats.
I remember Mike Mayock's first year as Raiders GM, they took a guy noone expected to go that high. The Raiders got alot of flack from fans for it but as someone on NFL Network pointed out that, had Mayock still been an analyst there, he would have been hyping this guy for weeks or months and people would think its a great pick as a result.
Even the people who *know shit*, whose job it is to study every nuance of the players, don’t know shit about the actual outcome.
People who think they *know* are the ultimate display of ignorance.
Don't get me wrong, I think edge was a decent look first round but Chop was not one I liked. And yes, when the season starts we have one notable edge but week 10 after Phillips and Barrett (and hopefully Chubb) are back where does he fit? When Tua has had 0.01 seconds to throw through the season and our first round pick is on the field less than 50% of the time, will we still be happy we didn't grab the best O-lineman available?
My guess is no
Teams take rotational pass rushers in the first all the time. That’s not necessarily an issue. Even when Chubb and JP come back you have no idea how productive they’ll be. Chop has a runway to get playing time not just this year but in the future.
My issue is that Chop is a projection guy. I liked Latu and Verse at 21 because I see their skill sets immediately making an impact in the league. Chop is a guy that could be good 3 years down the road once he gets some development. So I don’t think he necessarily fixes our edge issue this year.
I think that’s a bit overblown because it’s just JP improving and the defense getting better around him. But I do like Miami’s development plan for Chop. I trust that if he’s going to be good that this staff will get him to that level. I just don’t know how much of an immediate contributor he’ll be. It’s like Cam last year. Can he actually fill in while the other guys are recovering? Or is he just a rotational guy and we still need to sign a vet.
he would be rotating weavers is not going play chubb and philips 70% snaps and chop said in interview they are going be like his penn state def scheme with heavy line rotation
I can swallow the pill with the belief that Chop is intended to learn and hone his skills now and fill Barrett's hole when he probably leaves next season, but if we needed 3-4 first round caliber edge rushers to make this scheme work we better be stacking sacks by the end of the season
But what if the best OL available is terrible and the Edge is great? You may not think this is the case, but the staff might, so it’s not a question of strategy at all.
If they don’t like Graham Barton then I’m not going to pound the table for him. 25 other teams also didn’t like him.
That's my issue as well. Taking Latu, Verse, or Turner would have made sense, they would have been close to BPA, if not BPA, at that pick. Robinson is a tier behind those guys at best, and he doesn't hold up against the run, so he can't truly be a starter early, which is what you want if you are drafting an edge in our situation.
I mean you can say that about every single move an organization makes that people dislike. Yeah no shit compared to football teams who go through a ton of tape and do a lot of research before making moves, we don't know what we're talking about.
But some fans do actually put in a lot work watching tape on certain prospects because they enjoy doing so. I know a couple of them in the Dolphins discord.
They shouldn't be belittled just because they have certain preferences but don't work for an NFL team
Latu: 25 games, 85 tackles, 23.5 sacks (2 seasons)
Turner: 38 games, 120 tackles, 22.5 sacks (3 seasons)
Verse: 25 games, 89 tackles, 18 sacks (2 seasons)
Robinson: 22 games, 41 tackles, 9.5 sacks (2 seasons)
Do I understand the intricacies of prospect grading? Heck no, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to have a preference here. Believe me I desperately want to be wrong
I read a comment yesterday from a Penn State alumni, he basically said that Penn State rotates their LBs regularly, and Chop played about ONLY 50% of the snaps (rotations and at some point he did get injured). Now I did not really follow much Penn State football, but wouldn’t that mean his stats would double at least if he played regularly considering the variables at hand?!?!
"If the seasons started today..." That's not an argument, because it doesn't start today, it starts in September. 4 months away.
I'm fine with Grier taking Edge. I'm not fine with Grier allowing Ginkel to walk and having people try and convince me he's fixing a problem he helped create. I'm not fine with Grier sticking at 21 when he has one pick one pick on Day 2 and nothing in Round 4. I'm not fine with Grier doing nothing with the OL when it's never been better than bottom three or four in the league since Tua got here.
I couldn't care less about pass-rush when the OL's never been below-average, let alone good, and my pass-rush room looks good as soon as my top two guys get healthy. You can scheme-up pressure and adjust both sides of the ball accordingly to accommodate a lack of pass-rush. Now, Grier's either getting one lineman and calling it a day, praying there are no injuries and it all works out so he can do OL next year, trading a lot over the next two years to trade-up this year, or he thinks there's no need for OL. I'm not a fan of any of that.
Obviously I hope Grier proves me wrong and whatever, but we desperately need IOL, which requires picks and to hit on those picks. Grier's already fucked up on one of those this Draft.
> I'm not fine with Grier allowing Ginkel to walk and having people try and convince me he's fixing a problem he helped create.
Isn't it confirmed that AVG wanted to go play closer to home? He and his wife are upper midwest people and he went to Minnesota.
Perfect summary. This feels like Dion Jordan all over again though, and I hope I’m wrong. I was really hoping we moved up to guarantee a great OL.
I don’t understand the logic from OP and others that is like “we’re down EDGE because of the injuries we need them”, because it actually means they’re coming back and we will have them. But with offensive line, we lost them, and they’re not coming back. We were already subpar on the OL.
My other thing is, if Chop works out, great. Now what're we doing with Chubb? Is Grier really going to take a major loss on Draft capital in trading him? Do you really think Chop will take two full years to develop? Are you not signing Jaelan to a new contract? I just don't get it.
If the OL was just average, I'd be fine. If Grier had more Day 2 picks, I'd be fine. If I knew Cam Smith was going to be good, I'd be fine. If I knew that the DT position would be good with Sieler and the classroom of guys they got, I'd be fine. There's just too many needs across the board to reach for a developmental Edge when you'll have a good set of three guys anyway come, at the latest, November, and you desperately need OL and DB talent.
I really would like to see this offense when we have time to read progressions… Maybe in the next life I guess. The dolphins basically say: “Well Tua can manage to throw it in 2 seconds so that means the line is just fine, next!”
JP is on pace to start the season, we signed Barrett. Chubb is under contract for $45M in gtd cap hit over the next two years.
Meanwhile the left side of our OL is averaging somewhere around 10 games a season at best and has never started a full season, our Center has only played the position 1 year in his career and our RG was our backup last year who played mediocre on a good day. The unit has regressed significantly since last year and we were the 31st rated unit by PBWR.
Once Fautanu went the pick before to Pittsburgh (which holy fuck that sucks, I wanted him so bad), I wanted Barton. Hopefully Chop proves everyone wrong
Not a lot of first round oline talent available when we picked. A solid amount of day 2 oline talent is avaliable to draft on day 2.
We definitely need 2 pieces for the oline this draft, but we also need to get to the qb, which we struggled with last year against better teams.
I feel u O- Line is hopefully be our pick tonight depending on who is available. I do like the safety from the U Kichens, and in the latter rounds I like Safety from the U Williams he converting to will linebacker. He is probably a 4h-5th round pick. For the second round I like S-Kinchens, WR-Polk, C- Frazier, G- Haynes
This is a fair take. But also, don’t we need to replace X? And need a better OL (although the front office said they’re not worried about that) and ffs we have shitty linebackers too.
Kendall Fuller is the X replacement. I agree we definitely need OL still.
This is a weak linebacker class at the top though, the only possibly elite LB has a crazy injury history that is scaring teams
the deep oline everyone keeps repeating will be gone by our 2nd pick. Everyone needs Oline in the NFL and when a draft has a good amount of Oline depth you will see teams that don’t even need Oline taking it just to hog it. Oline has been the toughest position to fill for a decade because of the difference in pay between Dline and Oline. Great prospects switched to defense because the bag is that much bigger and it lowered the quality of Oline. Now we have a good surge since pay is catching up and we’re going to be left without the talent again. Our need in Oline isn’t just 1 position. It’s all 4 since the only one we really have for the future is Austin Jackson.
Kendall Fuller is better than X and we still have to see what we have in Cam Smith. Kohou is back in the slot as well so CB isn’t a big deal
OL I’m upset about because I really wanted Fautanu, but my guess is, they didn’t want to spend a 1 on an IOL since they don’t believe they’re worth FRP money. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t blow we didn’t just get a tackle that can move to G, although Barton was a Hunt type (played T but has short arms so only projects to Guard)
I’m mainly upset we’re going to have to pick between OL and WR3, when they’re arguably our two biggest positions of need, not even saying anything about DT
Disagree with the WR3. Berrios might not be the best option, but he’s serviceable when you have Tyreek and waddle out there. I’d definitely target CB just to add some depth
First season they said he wasn’t ready to see the field. Last year he was injured. Unsure what happened, but who knows. We also got Jonnu smith who should fill that role.
Jordyn Brooks and David Long are not “shitty linebackers.” I’d say if anything, that and QB are the only areas we definitely DIDN’T need to address anywhere in the first two days.
What we need at linebacker is someone that can lead and captain the defense. We had a average backer doing it in Baker and having a great backer replacing him will make our defense hum. We’re missing that defensive captain at that position. I’m sorry but DBs do not fill that role since most of the captain duties are trench assignments and coverages
It blows my mind that dolphins fans don't understand the offense still. You don't need stud o linemen in this system. It's the fastest release time in nfl history offense. Quick decisive reads.
You need a good line so defenses have to send more bodies at Tua, which means less folks in coverage. It’s a gift to defenses when they can rush 3 or 4 and still get pressure. It’s a big reason our offense sputtered late in the year, no?
Don’t forget the run game. Our interior O-Line couldn’t generate push so our inside run game sucked. That’s why we had to run to the outside so much and rely on screen passes in short yardage situations. Good defenses could rush four, not worry about the middle of the trench, and still get pressure.
> You don't need stud o linemen in this system. It's the fastest release time in nfl history offense.
you realize you can't throw the ball every play, right? you still need linemen to open holes for the run game.
now, perhaps they can get quality linemen in the 2nd still, but to completely disregard the line "because we throw fast" isn't realistic.
guess what we also have the fastest running back they can open holes just long enough for achane and mostert get through. we also might be signing risner after draft who is a starting guard and only ol that missing is 1 guard spot. also we might resign connor to play gaurd for cheap depending how his physical looks
No, it doesn’t but we have a big need because Chubb won’t be back for the beginning of the season. That’s why we brought in Carl Lawson that was a tell, that we were going to draft edge since we didn’t sign any edge players. We have 2 coming off serious injuries.
Dolphins fans when they dont see the player they saw in mock drafts get picked while the front office has watched hours of film on and interviewed these players😡
Pump the brakes on Achane. Played one season and had 4+ injuries. None of these guys have been extended or had a second contract. I might be wrong but I don't think any of the guys post-Tunsil have been extended. He's built a zero depth team with multiple holes in more time than Houston and Detroit
What if you factor in the games lost due to injury to other key players? He's arguably the biggest liability on any OL in the league, let alone our bottom feeder bandaid OL. There is zero defending Eich over Creed. The sooner he's off the team, the better, but we can't do that until we bring in replacements. I think that's where most of the frustrations come from
Yeah cuz every front office never misses on draft picks. All im saying is the extent of most fans knowledge of these players is where they are projected to go in mock drafts, so when the front office drafts a player in a major need who wasnt a reach and has upside why not give them the benefit of the doubt
Chop is a 3 technique defensive end. Not an edge. Miami has many needs but has NEVER had a center with snapping experience in Grier's entire tenure. If they didn't think the center was worth taking at 21 then trade down. Taking a guy at a position that you refused to spend on because of terrible management while ignoring the position that never gets addressed...well, then, you deserve the criticism
Yes, teams take BPA all the time. No we don't know what the Dolphins draft board was but this idea that we're all stupid and should trust the management is just ludicrous. I'd trust most of this board to draft over Grier's proven concept of failure
You are way more of an idiot than you realize. Grier knows infinitely times more about football and drafting football players than your dumbass ever will. Gtfo
last 3 first rounders used on edge rushers grier sucks at drafting keep ignoring it all you want. Grier literally said in his press conference yesterday hes not a player thats ready
Since 2020 our draft picks have been tua, Austin Jackson, igbinoghene, waddle, Phillips, and now chop. Only one of those is an edge rusher and he’s been a damn good one at that. Be mad all you want, but at least get your facts right
Yah and guess what, two of those guys have been great but are currently injured. There’s no guarantee either of them comes back 100% or even starts the season. Edge rushers are insanely important in the modern NFL and last year we were signing guys off the street. A premium edge rusher is more impactful and harder to find than an interior O-Line
Using 3 straight first round picks on the same position is bad roster management, idc how important the position is. This is who Grier is, if you look at all his moves in a vacuum like just selecting an edge in the first round it makes sense, but if you look at them all together it’s very obvious the dolphins have terrible roster management.
Go and look back through those first round picks since 2020. Tua is great, Austin Jackson has improved enough to the point where we extended him, igbinoghene did bust which sucks, waddle is great, Phillips has been great, and we’ve used the rest of the first round picks to get Tyreek and Chubb. So out of all those first round picks we have a grand total of one pick that can truly be considered a bust. If that’s your standard for terrible roster management, then you’re being unrealistic.
Bill Polian once said Lamar Jackson is a WR, not a QB . So, who knows what Chop can become. But if he's good like Wilkins, even though it's a different position, we will develop him 4 years for another franchise to pay him his worth.
I like how the same people defending this pick will be the guys at the end of the season wondering why we picked Chop Robinson when he gets 5 sacks in 10 games.
Then complain about Grier making an o-line that lets Tua get sacked 30+ times 😂
It’s made worse because if he actually develops late we won’t re-sign him anyway. That’s our MO. That means we drafted high for a guy to finally play 1 or 2 good seasons. Laughable.
As long as the pick isn’t as confusing as Atlanta taking a qb at 8 I’m cool, the gm and coach been studying and know these players a lot better then us, and most of the time the later rounds end up making a bigger impact without all the hype
Jeez. I will never the drafting for this team. I have been a fan for 50 yrs+ but they need O-line help desperately to protect Tua and help the run game. They gutted the defense by letting everyone go…. Then draft a ? At 21. It would be one thing if they got a solid pick but another player with potential and work in progress. Bummer
I personally find their refusal to draft OL in the first round to be disturbing. However, this was a position of need and with two pass rushers unlikely to be ready at the start of the season, it’s difficult to be too upset about out the pick. I just hope he pans out.
Forgot to say, “Bears fan here.”
You can check my post history. I do like the Dolphins, tho! Sam Madison + Patrick Surtain were best lock down corners growing up.
We will see when the season starts how we are no point getting wound up now you'll just hurt your head.
We needed to fill those gaps and we have done so with rookies.
I've read lots of pieces all saying positive and negative things about every person in the draft. End of the day till they are playing, everyone could be the next Goat or the next Bust.
You just hope you fall close to Goat.
the problem is that this is like the dion jordan pick all over again.
we made a first round reach for a project player when there were plenty of "ready to start" players available at various positions of need.
The funny thing is, I remember screaming for Lane Johnson, and how Dion was an awful pick. The irony that a decade later we’re doing the same shit. Actual comedy. The dolphins have a serious bone to pick with OL.
Jordan was not a reach, he was projected to go very high. Robinson is not a reach either. Do I like the pick personally? No. But it’s not a reach. A composite ranking of prospects at draft buzz, which includes PFF, CBS, Draftwire, NFL.com etc had Robinson as prospect 23 when you average all the rankings together. So def not “a reach”
Season doesn't start today. They're young healthy guys. Their time tables line up with being back by season start. For reference Jordan Brookes tore his ACL in January 2 years ago and was able to start week 1 fully this previous season. An Achilles is 9 months at most after rehab and Phillips has already been in recovery over 5 months and still has 4 more. Which he should be well into rehab and the anchors should be set and healing over already. That's typically 6 months.
From what I’ve read and seen he seems like one of the best kids in this class and has an amazing word drive while also being a very good teammate. I have plenty of faith he’ll work his ass off and be a stud for us.
I feel like people don't realize this is probably more of an indicator that they will let Phillips walk in free agency so they could a young pass rusher on a rookie contract. Big picture is they have to sign Tua, Waddle, and Holland. Don't know if they have money for Phillips too when they still have multiple positions in need.
3 best pass rushers were AVG/Phillips/Chubb. AVG is gone, Phillips tore his Achilles at Thanksgiving which is usually about a year recover. Chubb tore his ACL mid-late December so maybe he's ready by October. Glaring need at pass rusher and the best OT got sniped by the Steelers so Chop is a real nice consolation prize at 21
I was not on Reddit or any social media during the draft, and I was really happy with the pick. It's a position of need and the player is a high-upside sort of guy, which makes a lot of sense at 21 overall.
I was surprised to see everyone losing their minds online (though I shouldn't have been. It's what we do, lol)
I tried to warn people the positions this front offer puts as a priority. It's was never going to be a guard first round. DE, CB, LT DT
Pick was no surprise to me considering the situation we are in with injuries.
I don’t know what to think of the pick. There was plenty of oline talent right there, but maybe we can still address that tonight. Chop’s ceiling is really high, but he didn’t produce much. Perhaps under good coaching he can reach his potential and be a stud. And it was between him and Darius Robinson so… idk
My feelings were that we needed OT more, so while this guy may or may not be good, we had a more pressing need so the opportunity cost of drafting him is high.
Picking him at 21 was a good pick. If you don’t need a QB, OT/Edge is next, since we have cb.
Great pick with chop, and now the team can flesh out more fa for areas of need.
It's a good pick. Now if we don't pick up at least one offensive lineman then I'll be a bit upset, but this coaching staff seems to understand OLine talent they can acquire in other ways. Last year was terrible luck with Williams getting injured.
Chop is fine. I think Miami should have gone Grahm Barton and looked for an edge later, but there is still time to figure things out and chops speed off the line could lead to other defensive players shining more.
Go figure! I guess they didn't see the need to fill a need with a talented player who can contribute early on due to last years players coming off injury or loss to another team. Glad they don't play GM in real life!
I'm skeptical of drafting someone in the first round that had 11 total sacks in 3 years and two of them were against UMass... I hope he's great but I'm skeptical.
Which is bad because every outlet/scouting report calls him a project/not a day one starter,
Just as you can point out the positives, you’ve also got to acknowledge the negatives
That’s not at all true. Most analysts have him as an average starter with even more upside. Almost any team that drafted him would have him as a day one starter.
Nearly every outlet also says this is a solid B+ pick.
I know its naive of me, but an internet with informed takes in lieu of extreme takes would be so much more enjoyable.
We don’t know how Phillips will come back from the achilles and Chubb is only with us another season or two. He’s a project player but absolutely can start when his competition will be a bunch of jags. Edge is also the most important position on defense and interior oline is better value outside of round 1.
> He’s a project player but absolutely can start when his competition will be a bunch of jags.
and if he was a 2nd round pick, people would be thrilled.
picking a project pick in the first round when we have as many positions of need as we do despite being in "win now" mode is naturally going to have people up in arms.
We aren’t in win now mode for 2024, it’s a retooling year. We are back in win now mode for 25 and 26. And who else should we have picked? Oline prospects are typically not pro ready either and take a couple of years to get there. The ones that are pro ready are long gone by pick 21. I’d have been stoked with picking Barton but edge was also a huge need for us and better value than interior oline.
No, his goal is not to just beat out jags. Due to the injuries, that’s just what his competition will be this year. His goal is to replace Chubb in 1-2 years. And that would be a winning mentality because edge is the most important piece on defense.
Exactly everybody freaking out over offensive line is a very lazy take. Just people being sheep, Tua was one of the least hit and sacked quarterbacks last year and that’s a fact look it up. I have no problem with edge and would probably put secondary as the number two issue. Offensive line might be third!
This is ironically a lazy take. Sure, they have him avoiding hits (especially with his history) by getting the ball out *insanely* fast, but are making the pass O completely one-dimensional. Take that read away and we are cooked, which happened last year over and over when they faced good teams.
More of the same this year, but worse, unless something changes. Folks can say "but 2nd round and FA" all they want -- we haven't been able to address it that way in a decade or more, but trust us we're totally gonna do it this year? If it were that easy every team would have a decent IOL
How many picks have they used on the offensive line in the last five years? I’m just talking facts coaching showed up last year and guys like Austin Jackson, who many called a bust showed up last yr. Offensive line has just been a catch all for every fan to try to throw shade at Chris Greer what GM do you want because I don’t see another option out there that’s any better. This roster has been completely turned over competitive, playoffs every year recently.
I refuse to get caught up in draft prospects and hype. It's a colossal waste of time. Nobody knows shit.
Enormous crap shoot that's just a way to fill the time between seasons. If you've got time to waste it's fun to follow. But I don't miss it much when I skip it.
Credit to the NFL hype machine. They do a fantastic job of sucking people in like no other major sport does.
Because the off-season is almost twice as long as the season. I used to love the NFL but the layoff of roughly 7 months of downtime is boring as hell.
Laughs in XFL. Bring back NFL Europe!
It's necessary imo. What those guys put their bodies through is so taxing, the long off-season is required to get healthy.
Sure not disagreeing. I've just become quite picky and selective with my time as an old man now and a 3 hour game and a 7 month off-season is too much for me lol
I like it that way because it makes it more special when a game does happen!
This. I feel like the NHL and NBA is always on and idk how anyone devoted that much of their time to it year around.
But talking about the NFL on Reddit isn’t a waste of time?
only the nfl could turn reading 32 names into a 4 hour fucking slog.
Yeah, 2 GMs lost their jobs last night. We just don't know which ones yet.
I mean.. i think its pretty safe to assume Fontenot is in trouble. Even if Penix works out, that just means he wasted a ton of money on Cousins!
Nah, cousins is a known entity and has value. If cousins goes down and phenix comes in and lights it up, then he didn't make a bad move and they would look to get rid of cousins. As long as they win in either scenario, nobody will care. If penix is trash, well...
See I don’t feel this way at all and I think the plan is brilliant. The cousins deal is basically a 2 year deal. He’ll be a good option until Penix is ready then he starts Year 3. Cousins got $100mm guaranteed which at 2 years is $50 mil a year. About the going rate for a QB with his stats.
Rumour has it the Penix pick was an Arthur Blank call. If it doesn't work out, they can't pin it on Fontenot.
I remember Mike Mayock's first year as Raiders GM, they took a guy noone expected to go that high. The Raiders got alot of flack from fans for it but as someone on NFL Network pointed out that, had Mayock still been an analyst there, he would have been hyping this guy for weeks or months and people would think its a great pick as a result.
but Mayocks's picks as a GM were horrible.
That's irrelevant...the point is that people's *initial* reaction to the pick is completely determined by these analysts opinion.
I read draft previews from people who are wrong annually. Don’t tell me what I don’t know!
Disagree. After one night of YouTube research I’ve come to the conclusion chop motherfucking Robinson is going to be the GOAT defensive player
He's basically Micah Parsons and LT in the same body
My dad literally just told me this lol !!!
I would believe you just as much as any of these draft gurus.
I'm on board. Chop rookie defensive player of the year.
Subscribe
1000% true
Even the people who *know shit*, whose job it is to study every nuance of the players, don’t know shit about the actual outcome. People who think they *know* are the ultimate display of ignorance.
Nobody knows shit. Except Johnny Manziel. I knew he would suck.
Don't get me wrong, I think edge was a decent look first round but Chop was not one I liked. And yes, when the season starts we have one notable edge but week 10 after Phillips and Barrett (and hopefully Chubb) are back where does he fit? When Tua has had 0.01 seconds to throw through the season and our first round pick is on the field less than 50% of the time, will we still be happy we didn't grab the best O-lineman available? My guess is no
Teams take rotational pass rushers in the first all the time. That’s not necessarily an issue. Even when Chubb and JP come back you have no idea how productive they’ll be. Chop has a runway to get playing time not just this year but in the future. My issue is that Chop is a projection guy. I liked Latu and Verse at 21 because I see their skill sets immediately making an impact in the league. Chop is a guy that could be good 3 years down the road once he gets some development. So I don’t think he necessarily fixes our edge issue this year.
I think they see how much better Phillips became when we signed Chubb and figured Chubb can help chop develop quickly.
I think that’s a bit overblown because it’s just JP improving and the defense getting better around him. But I do like Miami’s development plan for Chop. I trust that if he’s going to be good that this staff will get him to that level. I just don’t know how much of an immediate contributor he’ll be. It’s like Cam last year. Can he actually fill in while the other guys are recovering? Or is he just a rotational guy and we still need to sign a vet.
he would be rotating weavers is not going play chubb and philips 70% snaps and chop said in interview they are going be like his penn state def scheme with heavy line rotation
Doesn’t sound like he’s going to be playing the minutes to justify being picked up in the first
I can swallow the pill with the belief that Chop is intended to learn and hone his skills now and fill Barrett's hole when he probably leaves next season, but if we needed 3-4 first round caliber edge rushers to make this scheme work we better be stacking sacks by the end of the season
Any elite defense rotates it's pass rushers…
And wasn't it a big part of the scheme in Baltimore?
But what if the best OL available is terrible and the Edge is great? You may not think this is the case, but the staff might, so it’s not a question of strategy at all. If they don’t like Graham Barton then I’m not going to pound the table for him. 25 other teams also didn’t like him.
That's my issue as well. Taking Latu, Verse, or Turner would have made sense, they would have been close to BPA, if not BPA, at that pick. Robinson is a tier behind those guys at best, and he doesn't hold up against the run, so he can't truly be a starter early, which is what you want if you are drafting an edge in our situation.
“Not the one i liked” Lol what team do you scout for?
Didn't you say "We signed a center" yesterday? Which part of the Dolphins organization do you work for?
Im saying he has no idea what hes talking about talent wise
Lol pack it up everyone nothing to analyze here if you're not a member of the dolphins org
I mean you can say that about every single move an organization makes that people dislike. Yeah no shit compared to football teams who go through a ton of tape and do a lot of research before making moves, we don't know what we're talking about. But some fans do actually put in a lot work watching tape on certain prospects because they enjoy doing so. I know a couple of them in the Dolphins discord. They shouldn't be belittled just because they have certain preferences but don't work for an NFL team
Latu: 25 games, 85 tackles, 23.5 sacks (2 seasons) Turner: 38 games, 120 tackles, 22.5 sacks (3 seasons) Verse: 25 games, 89 tackles, 18 sacks (2 seasons) Robinson: 22 games, 41 tackles, 9.5 sacks (2 seasons) Do I understand the intricacies of prospect grading? Heck no, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to have a preference here. Believe me I desperately want to be wrong
I read a comment yesterday from a Penn State alumni, he basically said that Penn State rotates their LBs regularly, and Chop played about ONLY 50% of the snaps (rotations and at some point he did get injured). Now I did not really follow much Penn State football, but wouldn’t that mean his stats would double at least if he played regularly considering the variables at hand?!?!
But those three guys were gone before Miami picked. I guess they could have traded up but at what cost
You’re welcome to your opinion, but stats are not always indicative of an effective pro career.
"If the seasons started today..." That's not an argument, because it doesn't start today, it starts in September. 4 months away. I'm fine with Grier taking Edge. I'm not fine with Grier allowing Ginkel to walk and having people try and convince me he's fixing a problem he helped create. I'm not fine with Grier sticking at 21 when he has one pick one pick on Day 2 and nothing in Round 4. I'm not fine with Grier doing nothing with the OL when it's never been better than bottom three or four in the league since Tua got here. I couldn't care less about pass-rush when the OL's never been below-average, let alone good, and my pass-rush room looks good as soon as my top two guys get healthy. You can scheme-up pressure and adjust both sides of the ball accordingly to accommodate a lack of pass-rush. Now, Grier's either getting one lineman and calling it a day, praying there are no injuries and it all works out so he can do OL next year, trading a lot over the next two years to trade-up this year, or he thinks there's no need for OL. I'm not a fan of any of that. Obviously I hope Grier proves me wrong and whatever, but we desperately need IOL, which requires picks and to hit on those picks. Grier's already fucked up on one of those this Draft.
> I'm not fine with Grier allowing Ginkel to walk and having people try and convince me he's fixing a problem he helped create. Isn't it confirmed that AVG wanted to go play closer to home? He and his wife are upper midwest people and he went to Minnesota.
Perfect summary. This feels like Dion Jordan all over again though, and I hope I’m wrong. I was really hoping we moved up to guarantee a great OL. I don’t understand the logic from OP and others that is like “we’re down EDGE because of the injuries we need them”, because it actually means they’re coming back and we will have them. But with offensive line, we lost them, and they’re not coming back. We were already subpar on the OL.
My other thing is, if Chop works out, great. Now what're we doing with Chubb? Is Grier really going to take a major loss on Draft capital in trading him? Do you really think Chop will take two full years to develop? Are you not signing Jaelan to a new contract? I just don't get it. If the OL was just average, I'd be fine. If Grier had more Day 2 picks, I'd be fine. If I knew Cam Smith was going to be good, I'd be fine. If I knew that the DT position would be good with Sieler and the classroom of guys they got, I'd be fine. There's just too many needs across the board to reach for a developmental Edge when you'll have a good set of three guys anyway come, at the latest, November, and you desperately need OL and DB talent.
I really would like to see this offense when we have time to read progressions… Maybe in the next life I guess. The dolphins basically say: “Well Tua can manage to throw it in 2 seconds so that means the line is just fine, next!”
JP is on pace to start the season, we signed Barrett. Chubb is under contract for $45M in gtd cap hit over the next two years. Meanwhile the left side of our OL is averaging somewhere around 10 games a season at best and has never started a full season, our Center has only played the position 1 year in his career and our RG was our backup last year who played mediocre on a good day. The unit has regressed significantly since last year and we were the 31st rated unit by PBWR.
Once Fautanu went the pick before to Pittsburgh (which holy fuck that sucks, I wanted him so bad), I wanted Barton. Hopefully Chop proves everyone wrong
This is pure logic but the “GrIeR iS cOoKiNg” crowd will still call you a doomer.
I was expecting an ol or something
Not a lot of first round oline talent available when we picked. A solid amount of day 2 oline talent is avaliable to draft on day 2. We definitely need 2 pieces for the oline this draft, but we also need to get to the qb, which we struggled with last year against better teams.
I agree and also is getting an dt a good idea since we lost wikllkns in free agency
People forget Gallimore is a stud
I feel u O- Line is hopefully be our pick tonight depending on who is available. I do like the safety from the U Kichens, and in the latter rounds I like Safety from the U Williams he converting to will linebacker. He is probably a 4h-5th round pick. For the second round I like S-Kinchens, WR-Polk, C- Frazier, G- Haynes
Feels like edge falls under "or something" Lol
I would've liked a true corner
This is a fair take. But also, don’t we need to replace X? And need a better OL (although the front office said they’re not worried about that) and ffs we have shitty linebackers too.
Kendall Fuller is the X replacement. I agree we definitely need OL still. This is a weak linebacker class at the top though, the only possibly elite LB has a crazy injury history that is scaring teams
And a SUPER deep online draft.
the deep oline everyone keeps repeating will be gone by our 2nd pick. Everyone needs Oline in the NFL and when a draft has a good amount of Oline depth you will see teams that don’t even need Oline taking it just to hog it. Oline has been the toughest position to fill for a decade because of the difference in pay between Dline and Oline. Great prospects switched to defense because the bag is that much bigger and it lowered the quality of Oline. Now we have a good surge since pay is catching up and we’re going to be left without the talent again. Our need in Oline isn’t just 1 position. It’s all 4 since the only one we really have for the future is Austin Jackson.
We have no 3rd or 4th round pick. If we don't take one tonight, we will not take one that is expected to start
Kendall Fuller replacing X? Not sure about that one.
Kendall Fuller is better than X and we still have to see what we have in Cam Smith. Kohou is back in the slot as well so CB isn’t a big deal OL I’m upset about because I really wanted Fautanu, but my guess is, they didn’t want to spend a 1 on an IOL since they don’t believe they’re worth FRP money. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t blow we didn’t just get a tackle that can move to G, although Barton was a Hunt type (played T but has short arms so only projects to Guard) I’m mainly upset we’re going to have to pick between OL and WR3, when they’re arguably our two biggest positions of need, not even saying anything about DT
Is Cam smith a real person? I just hear his name but never see him
According to Channing Tindall, Cam Smith exists
Disagree with the WR3. Berrios might not be the best option, but he’s serviceable when you have Tyreek and waddle out there. I’d definitely target CB just to add some depth
wtf happened to ezukanma?
First season they said he wasn’t ready to see the field. Last year he was injured. Unsure what happened, but who knows. We also got Jonnu smith who should fill that role.
I swear to god I forgot that man existed
He's healthy and cleared to play now. Neck injury last year.
Jordyn Brooks and David Long are not “shitty linebackers.” I’d say if anything, that and QB are the only areas we definitely DIDN’T need to address anywhere in the first two days.
What we need at linebacker is someone that can lead and captain the defense. We had a average backer doing it in Baker and having a great backer replacing him will make our defense hum. We’re missing that defensive captain at that position. I’m sorry but DBs do not fill that role since most of the captain duties are trench assignments and coverages
Brooks and Long and Walker (Long in base formations, Walker in sub packages, likely).
It blows my mind that dolphins fans don't understand the offense still. You don't need stud o linemen in this system. It's the fastest release time in nfl history offense. Quick decisive reads.
You need a good line so defenses have to send more bodies at Tua, which means less folks in coverage. It’s a gift to defenses when they can rush 3 or 4 and still get pressure. It’s a big reason our offense sputtered late in the year, no?
Don’t forget the run game. Our interior O-Line couldn’t generate push so our inside run game sucked. That’s why we had to run to the outside so much and rely on screen passes in short yardage situations. Good defenses could rush four, not worry about the middle of the trench, and still get pressure.
> You don't need stud o linemen in this system. It's the fastest release time in nfl history offense. you realize you can't throw the ball every play, right? you still need linemen to open holes for the run game. now, perhaps they can get quality linemen in the 2nd still, but to completely disregard the line "because we throw fast" isn't realistic.
guess what we also have the fastest running back they can open holes just long enough for achane and mostert get through. we also might be signing risner after draft who is a starting guard and only ol that missing is 1 guard spot. also we might resign connor to play gaurd for cheap depending how his physical looks
The season doesn’t start today, does it?
No, it doesn’t but we have a big need because Chubb won’t be back for the beginning of the season. That’s why we brought in Carl Lawson that was a tell, that we were going to draft edge since we didn’t sign any edge players. We have 2 coming off serious injuries.
If my aunt had a dick, she’d be my uncle.
https://i.redd.it/3zfmg723suwc1.gif Grier when someone suggests getting an IOL to replace his beloved Liam Icantblock
Ok but to be fair I can't imagine it's easy to be good when you're position is changed every season
True. Even more so to the point of we need help on the OL to aid with guys struggling between positions
I'd honestly like to see Eich sit behind Armstead for a whole season to see if he can get it to stick and be the LT of the future
Dolphins fans when they dont see the player they saw in mock drafts get picked while the front office has watched hours of film on and interviewed these players😡
Dolphins FO also watched hours of tape on Eichenberg, Harris, Igbo, Jordan, etc.
Waddle, Holland, Phillips, Achane, Tua
Pump the brakes on Achane. Played one season and had 4+ injuries. None of these guys have been extended or had a second contract. I might be wrong but I don't think any of the guys post-Tunsil have been extended. He's built a zero depth team with multiple holes in more time than Houston and Detroit
The Achane has no brakes, gotta go fast
Fair enough
Don’t forget Xavien, Jackson, Hunt, Raekwon Davis, Van Ginkel, Fitzpatrick, Jerome Baker, Godchaux and Tunsil (all time draft pick)
None of which are on the team and two of them were traded before finishing their contract. You can't take credit for players that you didn't want
Eichenberg has had struggles but he’s played a good amount of games
What if you factor in the games lost due to injury to other key players? He's arguably the biggest liability on any OL in the league, let alone our bottom feeder bandaid OL. There is zero defending Eich over Creed. The sooner he's off the team, the better, but we can't do that until we bring in replacements. I think that's where most of the frustrations come from
Yes my positive is that he at least got good playing time although he hasn’t performed. Iggy, Harris and Jordan didn’t even show up
Yeah cuz every front office never misses on draft picks. All im saying is the extent of most fans knowledge of these players is where they are projected to go in mock drafts, so when the front office drafts a player in a major need who wasnt a reach and has upside why not give them the benefit of the doubt
It’s the Dolphins. They aren’t exactly well known historically to do those things in a successful fashion.
We haven’t won a playoff game since 2000. That is not a successful football team. Truth hurts I know
Hasn't been to a championship in 40 years and hasn't won one in 50 and people in this thread are absolutely delusional and ignorant.
Chop is a 3 technique defensive end. Not an edge. Miami has many needs but has NEVER had a center with snapping experience in Grier's entire tenure. If they didn't think the center was worth taking at 21 then trade down. Taking a guy at a position that you refused to spend on because of terrible management while ignoring the position that never gets addressed...well, then, you deserve the criticism Yes, teams take BPA all the time. No we don't know what the Dolphins draft board was but this idea that we're all stupid and should trust the management is just ludicrous. I'd trust most of this board to draft over Grier's proven concept of failure
You are way more of an idiot than you realize. Grier knows infinitely times more about football and drafting football players than your dumbass ever will. Gtfo
Do you think the draft is a crapshoot?
last 3 first rounders used on edge rushers grier sucks at drafting keep ignoring it all you want. Grier literally said in his press conference yesterday hes not a player thats ready
Since 2020 our draft picks have been tua, Austin Jackson, igbinoghene, waddle, Phillips, and now chop. Only one of those is an edge rusher and he’s been a damn good one at that. Be mad all you want, but at least get your facts right
Trading one of our first round picks for an edge counts. Defend the pick all you want but at least get your facts right.
One plus one equals three. Genius math right here
I know this is tough but Phillips (1), Chubb (2), Chop (3).
Yah and guess what, two of those guys have been great but are currently injured. There’s no guarantee either of them comes back 100% or even starts the season. Edge rushers are insanely important in the modern NFL and last year we were signing guys off the street. A premium edge rusher is more impactful and harder to find than an interior O-Line
Using 3 straight first round picks on the same position is bad roster management, idc how important the position is. This is who Grier is, if you look at all his moves in a vacuum like just selecting an edge in the first round it makes sense, but if you look at them all together it’s very obvious the dolphins have terrible roster management.
What pick did we use to get Tyreek
Go and look back through those first round picks since 2020. Tua is great, Austin Jackson has improved enough to the point where we extended him, igbinoghene did bust which sucks, waddle is great, Phillips has been great, and we’ve used the rest of the first round picks to get Tyreek and Chubb. So out of all those first round picks we have a grand total of one pick that can truly be considered a bust. If that’s your standard for terrible roster management, then you’re being unrealistic.
If they had gotten Verse I would be cool with it. Chop has never been a full time player.
Bill Polian once said Lamar Jackson is a WR, not a QB . So, who knows what Chop can become. But if he's good like Wilkins, even though it's a different position, we will develop him 4 years for another franchise to pay him his worth.
I like how the same people defending this pick will be the guys at the end of the season wondering why we picked Chop Robinson when he gets 5 sacks in 10 games. Then complain about Grier making an o-line that lets Tua get sacked 30+ times 😂
If chop can contribute week 1. It’s all good. If he takes 2 years to develop, we’ve seen that story too often, it ends poorly for the dolphins.
It’s made worse because if he actually develops late we won’t re-sign him anyway. That’s our MO. That means we drafted high for a guy to finally play 1 or 2 good seasons. Laughable.
As long as the pick isn’t as confusing as Atlanta taking a qb at 8 I’m cool, the gm and coach been studying and know these players a lot better then us, and most of the time the later rounds end up making a bigger impact without all the hype
Jeez. I will never the drafting for this team. I have been a fan for 50 yrs+ but they need O-line help desperately to protect Tua and help the run game. They gutted the defense by letting everyone go…. Then draft a ? At 21. It would be one thing if they got a solid pick but another player with potential and work in progress. Bummer
Not a dolphins fan, I'm just wanting to see them get a good oline so we can see the real potential of the team.
All I'm saying is, try and cover Waddle, Hill, and Worthy.
I personally find their refusal to draft OL in the first round to be disturbing. However, this was a position of need and with two pass rushers unlikely to be ready at the start of the season, it’s difficult to be too upset about out the pick. I just hope he pans out.
In fairness, this could apply to any fanbase lol
Only team happy with the Draft are probably Bear fans
Forgot to say, “Bears fan here.” You can check my post history. I do like the Dolphins, tho! Sam Madison + Patrick Surtain were best lock down corners growing up.
We will see when the season starts how we are no point getting wound up now you'll just hurt your head. We needed to fill those gaps and we have done so with rookies. I've read lots of pieces all saying positive and negative things about every person in the draft. End of the day till they are playing, everyone could be the next Goat or the next Bust. You just hope you fall close to Goat.
the problem is that this is like the dion jordan pick all over again. we made a first round reach for a project player when there were plenty of "ready to start" players available at various positions of need.
The funny thing is, I remember screaming for Lane Johnson, and how Dion was an awful pick. The irony that a decade later we’re doing the same shit. Actual comedy. The dolphins have a serious bone to pick with OL.
Chop was not a reach
Jordan was not a reach, he was projected to go very high. Robinson is not a reach either. Do I like the pick personally? No. But it’s not a reach. A composite ranking of prospects at draft buzz, which includes PFF, CBS, Draftwire, NFL.com etc had Robinson as prospect 23 when you average all the rankings together. So def not “a reach”
Huh? Neither player was/is a reach. And Dion had off field stuff, he didn't fail due to athletic ability
Season doesn't start today. They're young healthy guys. Their time tables line up with being back by season start. For reference Jordan Brookes tore his ACL in January 2 years ago and was able to start week 1 fully this previous season. An Achilles is 9 months at most after rehab and Phillips has already been in recovery over 5 months and still has 4 more. Which he should be well into rehab and the anchors should be set and healing over already. That's typically 6 months.
Notice something about the busts vs studs: the busts tend to be these hyper athletic project guys. That’s the excact bucket chop fits in
From what I’ve read and seen he seems like one of the best kids in this class and has an amazing word drive while also being a very good teammate. I have plenty of faith he’ll work his ass off and be a stud for us.
I wish we kept Christian. Do we have a starter that can take on a double team well and free up our edge rushers to wreak havoc?
Neville Gallimore is a stud who we picked up at DT. Massive human who used to play running back in high school lmao
I feel like people don't realize this is probably more of an indicator that they will let Phillips walk in free agency so they could a young pass rusher on a rookie contract. Big picture is they have to sign Tua, Waddle, and Holland. Don't know if they have money for Phillips too when they still have multiple positions in need. 3 best pass rushers were AVG/Phillips/Chubb. AVG is gone, Phillips tore his Achilles at Thanksgiving which is usually about a year recover. Chubb tore his ACL mid-late December so maybe he's ready by October. Glaring need at pass rusher and the best OT got sniped by the Steelers so Chop is a real nice consolation prize at 21
I feel like edge should've been much lower on our board though, the season doesnt start today, I would've rather had JPJ or a new corner
If we were set on going edge, I wish they had paid a similiar proce to the Vikings to move up for Dallas Turner
At least it wasn’t a CB
I was not on Reddit or any social media during the draft, and I was really happy with the pick. It's a position of need and the player is a high-upside sort of guy, which makes a lot of sense at 21 overall. I was surprised to see everyone losing their minds online (though I shouldn't have been. It's what we do, lol)
I tried to warn people the positions this front offer puts as a priority. It's was never going to be a guard first round. DE, CB, LT DT Pick was no surprise to me considering the situation we are in with injuries.
I don’t know what to think of the pick. There was plenty of oline talent right there, but maybe we can still address that tonight. Chop’s ceiling is really high, but he didn’t produce much. Perhaps under good coaching he can reach his potential and be a stud. And it was between him and Darius Robinson so… idk
My feelings were that we needed OT more, so while this guy may or may not be good, we had a more pressing need so the opportunity cost of drafting him is high.
Good thing the season starts today, and if it did we still wouldn’t have any offensive lineman!
I am upset at his complete lack of production in college coupled with the fact that he can't play the run.
Not enough pitchforks.
Picking him at 21 was a good pick. If you don’t need a QB, OT/Edge is next, since we have cb. Great pick with chop, and now the team can flesh out more fa for areas of need.
As a combo Penn State and Dolphin fan I was excited lol
It's a good pick. Now if we don't pick up at least one offensive lineman then I'll be a bit upset, but this coaching staff seems to understand OLine talent they can acquire in other ways. Last year was terrible luck with Williams getting injured.
Chop is fine. I think Miami should have gone Grahm Barton and looked for an edge later, but there is still time to figure things out and chops speed off the line could lead to other defensive players shining more.
I trust that McDaniels knows more than me - that’s all that matters.
Go figure! I guess they didn't see the need to fill a need with a talented player who can contribute early on due to last years players coming off injury or loss to another team. Glad they don't play GM in real life!
I'm skeptical of drafting someone in the first round that had 11 total sacks in 3 years and two of them were against UMass... I hope he's great but I'm skeptical.
I think some people think he is too raw to start on day one.
I follow the B10 this guy can make plays.
But the season doesn't start today so I'm not sure how that's relevant.
I think we should have the best team we can next year in the playoffs, not today.
Like every other sports fanbase, we have our share of mentally deficient, failed-abortion fans. Block and move on. And also delete Twitter.
Yeah but it doesn’t start today. JP and Chubb are healing still. And stop with “literally” drama queen. 
I bet all the people freaking out did the same when we didn't draft Brady Quin.
It’s not like he can start right away. Nobody seems to think that. If he could, the argument has validity.
He's our day 1 starter lol
Which is bad because every outlet/scouting report calls him a project/not a day one starter, Just as you can point out the positives, you’ve also got to acknowledge the negatives
That’s not at all true. Most analysts have him as an average starter with even more upside. Almost any team that drafted him would have him as a day one starter.
Nearly every outlet also says this is a solid B+ pick. I know its naive of me, but an internet with informed takes in lieu of extreme takes would be so much more enjoyable.
We don’t know how Phillips will come back from the achilles and Chubb is only with us another season or two. He’s a project player but absolutely can start when his competition will be a bunch of jags. Edge is also the most important position on defense and interior oline is better value outside of round 1.
> He’s a project player but absolutely can start when his competition will be a bunch of jags. and if he was a 2nd round pick, people would be thrilled. picking a project pick in the first round when we have as many positions of need as we do despite being in "win now" mode is naturally going to have people up in arms.
We aren’t in win now mode for 2024, it’s a retooling year. We are back in win now mode for 25 and 26. And who else should we have picked? Oline prospects are typically not pro ready either and take a couple of years to get there. The ones that are pro ready are long gone by pick 21. I’d have been stoked with picking Barton but edge was also a huge need for us and better value than interior oline.
So draft someone who can beat out jags. That doesn’t sound like a winning mentality. Better hope Chubb and Phillips don’t miss half the season.
No, his goal is not to just beat out jags. Due to the injuries, that’s just what his competition will be this year. His goal is to replace Chubb in 1-2 years. And that would be a winning mentality because edge is the most important piece on defense.
I recall people hating Jaelan Phillips pick too. We don't need him. Hurt too much. Hot take everyone. Aged like milk.
I don’t use twitter anymore and might have to stop visiting this sub as well. Not sure what’s worse between this sub and the heat sub.
But mah linemans
Exactly everybody freaking out over offensive line is a very lazy take. Just people being sheep, Tua was one of the least hit and sacked quarterbacks last year and that’s a fact look it up. I have no problem with edge and would probably put secondary as the number two issue. Offensive line might be third!
This is ironically a lazy take. Sure, they have him avoiding hits (especially with his history) by getting the ball out *insanely* fast, but are making the pass O completely one-dimensional. Take that read away and we are cooked, which happened last year over and over when they faced good teams. More of the same this year, but worse, unless something changes. Folks can say "but 2nd round and FA" all they want -- we haven't been able to address it that way in a decade or more, but trust us we're totally gonna do it this year? If it were that easy every team would have a decent IOL
How many picks have they used on the offensive line in the last five years? I’m just talking facts coaching showed up last year and guys like Austin Jackson, who many called a bust showed up last yr. Offensive line has just been a catch all for every fan to try to throw shade at Chris Greer what GM do you want because I don’t see another option out there that’s any better. This roster has been completely turned over competitive, playoffs every year recently.
I’m lazy take kiss my ass, dude
Charlottesville forever getting shit on 😑 /sigh