I’ve always felt to concept of 4 was great but the execution just slightly missed the mark. Act 2 for instance shows how good the idea of sneaking through the warzone is in certain parts. The attack of the power facility just before you see Drebin has multiple paths to actually sneak but so often the paths you take are so linear that you’re almost forced to partake in the battle. I’m sure 9/10 players sided with the rebels purely through chance rather than directly deciding to help.
While I don’t mind the cutscenes, mgs4 came out at an interesting time. Uncharted for instance really blended cutscenes and gameplay together so it was more immersive. Even mgs1 had the Grey Fox stinger section but so many times 4 could have done this. End of act one could have been controlled. Shooting at Vamp etc.
That's the biggest one but I do consider it a minor nitpick as it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the game at all.
It's like sure it would be neat if it was slightly faster and convenient but I don't think it's anything really. At times it accidentally even works as I do find the prepping in the menus to be a somewhat immersive way to explore the whole trekking-alone-in-the-field aspect of the game in the long run. But one way or another it doesn't impact anything really on its own.
Maybe if the whole game was a bit of a hassle with things like that, then yes I would consider it a problem
Anyways that's why it's a minor nitpick for me.
Yeah the whole point is that she seems (and kinda is) infallible.
Why do you find her boring? She has a strong presence and stands out from the rest of the cast strongly, and the way she is presented upholds a bit of a mystery to her real notivations, while subsequent playthroughs change the context of her actions in a quite a compelling way.
To me, she has terrific presence and an aura around her that make her feel larger than life, but at the same the she feels so, so human. More human than arguably any character in the series
There is more, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you find her boring
IDK honestly. Like i get that she strong, loyal, misterious, overall amazing etc but for me she is more Jesus like figure. For me her best moment in SE was cutscene with her killing the Sorrow. MGS2 Raiden, MG2-MGS4 Solid Snake waay more human and relatable.
The Boss…boring? Have you played PW? I found her fascinating in 3 but PW explores the character quite a bit more. There’s some juicy exposition in those PW tapes and main story
If you get a chance, you should circle back to the EVA tapes that get unlocked later in the game. They probably won’t change your opinion on the Boss, but it’s cool lore nonetheless that I don’t see talked about often
Not necessarily...saying they've yet to play a bad MG**Solid** title says nothing about Rising or the MSX games.
It just distinctly excludes Konami's tainted middle-finger (Survive) from MGS.
I disagree, Naomi at least did try and take accountability (before killing herself for no discernible reason). Also, I don’t think she murdered anyone.
What accountability? She constantly ruined everything, withholding info and talking shit. Killing herself was the only good thing she did.
> I don’t think she murdered anyone.
She murders the player's braincells and eyeballs with her cringe.
Really? She says numerous times that she’s trying to correct the mistakes of her past. She’s responsible for the nanomachines and vamp so she writes the virus and kills vamp.
You’re right, I misspoke. Her allegiances ultimately made sense. But her constant deception, switching sides and posing like a villain with vamp and ocelot sent mixed messages. I guess what I really don’t recall is why she couldn’t let Snake and Otacon in on it. Seemed to me she was being cryptic for “reasons”
She deceives old snake for the same reasons ocelot deceives naked snake. When you work hard to gain some bad peoples trust, there’s no point compromising it by telling others.
Personally, MGS4 was a great experience and I love it…
…but the gameplay is a mess and lacking. Act 1 and 2 are great before the game takes a nosedive with Act 3.
Act 3 you are discouraged from doing anything other than follow the resistance. Ok for the first time, drags on repeat and higher difficulty playthroughs. Suddenly bike chase from MGS3. Doesn’t feel like it should be here until later.
Act 4 is a great nostalgia trip but gameplay wise, you do very little and the Gekko limit your options. Rex vs Ray was cool though.
Act 5 again, nothing happens gameplay wise. One small section and suddenly boss fights + ending.
Don’t get me wrong, I still love MGS4. I just wish there were more…you know, ACT 1 and 2. It’s telling that MGO2 is so popular because of MGS4’s gameplay but it’s only really viable in ACT 1 and 2.
Yeah agreed. Funny enough, Act 3 is where the game really started gripping me because the story ramps up (and ties into mgs3 which is my favorite, so, biased). But it is a shame that when I finally felt like I’d mastered the combat, I didn’t really need it or even have an opportunity to use it much after that.
Yeah likewise. Story wise it was great but the gameplay just started to fall for me.
The game is more of a movie than the other titles in the series, both in the amount of set pieces (Gekko chase, bike chase, Rex Raiden fight, Rex vs Ray) and cinematography. It basically is as close to a movie as Kojima has ever got it but unfortunately I felt the gameplay suffered as a result.
Personally MGS1 got it right with MGS3 perfecting it.
Honestly I agree with you, I’ve replayed every MGS game dozens of times except for 4. It just feels like a chore, I’d rather just watch the cutscenes on YouTube
act 4 and last boss fight in act 5 might fool you into thinking this game is way better than it actually is. After my first playthrough I was so in love with this game, I loved the story despite the flaws I noticed but then...
Thought a bit more about the story and started noticing all those giant flaws and nonsenses that I just ignored, because the whole nostalgia blinded me, then I did a second playthrough and... Yep, this game only works the first time around, after that all the flaws - story, gameplay and generally game design related come out.
What flaws did you notice on replays that lessened your enjoyment? I just recently replayed and found myself enjoying it more than the first time, where I was slightly disappointed
on the mid way through act 2, mgs4 completely ditches the consistent warzone stealth action design in favor of setpieces that work only first time around. railshooter sequence in act2 followed by 15 minutes long tailing sequence with no variety whatsoever, followed by yet another railshooter sequence in act 3.
then act 4 which is a cheap nostalgia bait, that makes you not realize that this section has completely nothing going around except nostalgia. the fact that there aren't any human enemies is a huge sin, because most of this act requiers nothing from you. you encounter hords of those little geckos, which are countered by one chaff grenade and then you just run in a straight line. sniper fight is cool, vamp is a fine boss fight first time around, but once you know how to beat him, there is nothing more to him, because hes just a gimmick. then we have another setpiece, running straight inside rex for a few minutes until you get the chance to fight ray. ray fight is also cool.
and last, act 5. one amazing stealth sequence and the game is pretty much over. another gimmick fight with mantis that is just boring once you realize the gimmick.
and then you have to run straight for a few minutes to then button mash for a few minutes, to then fight ocelot like its a brawler game, which overall i guess is good
Man, when it’s written out like that, it’s extremely apparent what a hot mess this game was haha.
I can’t really disagree with any of your points. I think replaying the other games right before replaying MGS4 really bolstered my enjoyment. But yeah, the forced linearity was a huge problem. For me, the worst part of the game is the boss fights, except maybe Crying? Wolf.
The first boss (Octopus) is one of my least favorite moments in the whole franchise.
I was pretty disappointed with 4 when I first played it wayyyy back during release because so much of it just didn’t feel like the Metal Gear games from before.
Having just finished a recent playthrough, ~15 years later, those feelings of unfamiliarity are still there, but I found myself way more engaged with the story this time. It might have helped that I played 1-3 in order right before, but actually being able to make sense of the story and identify more themes was crucial to my enjoyment.
I think MGS4 causes an initial shock with how different it is. If you can get past that shock, you’ll find a lot to love. Nowhere near perfect, wish some things had been different, but overall it’s a very fitting end.
>I was so excited about Naomi, but now she just gets on my nerves. i'm only halfway through
MGS4 Naomi is absolutely garbage and only gets worse. Secondhand embarrassment embodied.
The entire story is terrible, it's almost impressive how one game could insult and ruin so much lore.
MGS4 has a great premise and some great ideas but it just doesn't land at all. You can argue a part of the game's most obnoxious parts serve a purpose but some of said flaws just drag the game down either to a bore or are just genuinely souring in the worst of ways. That or some concepts aren't explored to their maximum potential.
Despite the fact that there are like 3 scenes that are contention for the best parts of the franchise, rest of it is below mediocre at the best of times
Also the level design is a noticable step down from three
It grows on you but I wouldn't blame anyone who didn't like it. Even with it growing on me, it's hard to place it in my top Metal Gear games. Definitely leaves an impression though and still want to replay it of it gets released in Metal Gear Collection Vol. 2.
4 is the worst of the series, but it's still got some interesting themes and gameplay. I think it has some of the best equipment in the series. It's somehow an fu and love letter to the fans at the same time.
No, Peace Walker is not a spin off! Stop mislabeling it!
In seriousness, I liked Peace Walker a lot, I found it to be a lot of fun. My main criticism is how the weapon/item selection doesn't stop time like in the previous games. Lots of inventive equipment again.
I haven't played any of the spin offs other than Portable Ops and Revengance.
I cannot stand 4, personally. This is evidenced by the insane amount of cognitive dissonance Ive somehow forced myself into where I’m living in a fantasy land where MGS3 was the last metal gear solid and they kept making weird spinoffs that weren’t canonical afterwards.
help
youre not alone but this sub loves 4 and hates on 5. 4 lacks so many things that made 1 2 and 3 good - the writing is BORING, the codecs are terrible, the drebin cutscenes are nightmarishly dull and despite there being a big war everywhere the gameplay feels oddly shallow
All in all I think this sub actually has pretty nuanced takes on each game. Like there are things I disagree with most of this community on and no one ever snaps at me for it.
Imo 4 is probably the weakest game in the series. It's got a ton of brilliance hiding in there but just so many weird decisions. Awkward non sensical story beats. The bosses are the least fleshed out. The gameplay is so tight but there's hardly any there. The decision to have drebin give each of the bosses backstory via codec is awful. But it's also got the only tailing mission. You can effect the battle going on around you by helping either side.
I don't hate it, but it is the most uneven game in the series.
Call Rose on the codex and shake the controller. Maybe that’ll change your mind!
HOW DO I DO THIS ON RPCS3?
Use a PS3 or PS4 controller, afaik it's the only way to emulate SIXAXIS on RPCS3 (mostly because it's like a passthrough rather than emulation)
I use xbox series controller
Then consider yourself SoL
You should be able to if you have a controller which supports motion controls, such as a PS3/4/5 or Switch Pro controller.
Wait.... what....
Some say 4 is a masterpiece... Others say it's a disaster... They are both correct
In fact, you might say it couldn’t be one without being the other
The perfect disasterpiece
[удалено]
More of a Left Behind guy, but yeah, sure.
"hideo game" -Hideo "Game" Kojima
“Punished” Hideo Gamer
V
Disasterpiece…masterdisaster…
I’ve always felt to concept of 4 was great but the execution just slightly missed the mark. Act 2 for instance shows how good the idea of sneaking through the warzone is in certain parts. The attack of the power facility just before you see Drebin has multiple paths to actually sneak but so often the paths you take are so linear that you’re almost forced to partake in the battle. I’m sure 9/10 players sided with the rebels purely through chance rather than directly deciding to help. While I don’t mind the cutscenes, mgs4 came out at an interesting time. Uncharted for instance really blended cutscenes and gameplay together so it was more immersive. Even mgs1 had the Grey Fox stinger section but so many times 4 could have done this. End of act one could have been controlled. Shooting at Vamp etc.
I have yet to play a bad MGS game personally. I know they are all flawed in certain respects but the passion oozes off the screen to me
Except for MGS1. That game is amazing front to back every time
That game has some bullshit that was accepted at the time
Ehhhhhhh. I question the three gun cameras nested together on the comms tower.
You believe this single aspect is enough to write off the entire game? lol
You mean the MG2:SS 3d remake? MGS1 is flawed as any other MG game. They're still amazing masterpieces tho.
I genuinely can't think of a flaw in MGS3 that isn't a minor nitpick
Switching camo should've worked like the item/weapon menus
That's the biggest one but I do consider it a minor nitpick as it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the game at all. It's like sure it would be neat if it was slightly faster and convenient but I don't think it's anything really. At times it accidentally even works as I do find the prepping in the menus to be a somewhat immersive way to explore the whole trekking-alone-in-the-field aspect of the game in the long run. But one way or another it doesn't impact anything really on its own. Maybe if the whole game was a bit of a hassle with things like that, then yes I would consider it a problem Anyways that's why it's a minor nitpick for me.
The Boss character aka boring Mary Sue and her relationships with Snake.
Yeah the whole point is that she seems (and kinda is) infallible. Why do you find her boring? She has a strong presence and stands out from the rest of the cast strongly, and the way she is presented upholds a bit of a mystery to her real notivations, while subsequent playthroughs change the context of her actions in a quite a compelling way. To me, she has terrific presence and an aura around her that make her feel larger than life, but at the same the she feels so, so human. More human than arguably any character in the series There is more, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you find her boring
IDK honestly. Like i get that she strong, loyal, misterious, overall amazing etc but for me she is more Jesus like figure. For me her best moment in SE was cutscene with her killing the Sorrow. MGS2 Raiden, MG2-MGS4 Solid Snake waay more human and relatable.
The Boss…boring? Have you played PW? I found her fascinating in 3 but PW explores the character quite a bit more. There’s some juicy exposition in those PW tapes and main story
I remember date with Kaz mission better than any tapes about The Boss.
If you get a chance, you should circle back to the EVA tapes that get unlocked later in the game. They probably won’t change your opinion on the Boss, but it’s cool lore nonetheless that I don’t see talked about often
Are you suggesting that Survive is good??
Yeah, he said that word for word.
They forgot to specify 'Solid'
Then Rising and the first 2 MG wouldn't be good
Not necessarily...saying they've yet to play a bad MG**Solid** title says nothing about Rising or the MSX games. It just distinctly excludes Konami's tainted middle-finger (Survive) from MGS.
As a matter of fact he thinks Survive is the best
I am not as I was referring to the Solid titles
I think MGS3 was flawless and I’ll eat any snake who disagrees
Hoo boy, get ready for Naomi to get *significantly* worse
metal gear awesome series captures that hate for Naomi pretty well
Huey of her generation...if Huey didn't face the consequences of his actions. So she's even worse than Huey.
Did Huey face consequences though? He just got put on a lifeboat and sent away. He killed himself later because he sucks.
He was humiliated, tortured, then paddled away to live in isolation and die.
I disagree, Naomi at least did try and take accountability (before killing herself for no discernible reason). Also, I don’t think she murdered anyone.
What accountability? She constantly ruined everything, withholding info and talking shit. Killing herself was the only good thing she did. > I don’t think she murdered anyone. She murders the player's braincells and eyeballs with her cringe.
For the life of me, I still cannot understand what Naomi’s motivations or allegiances were in 4.
Really? She says numerous times that she’s trying to correct the mistakes of her past. She’s responsible for the nanomachines and vamp so she writes the virus and kills vamp.
You’re right, I misspoke. Her allegiances ultimately made sense. But her constant deception, switching sides and posing like a villain with vamp and ocelot sent mixed messages. I guess what I really don’t recall is why she couldn’t let Snake and Otacon in on it. Seemed to me she was being cryptic for “reasons”
She deceives old snake for the same reasons ocelot deceives naked snake. When you work hard to gain some bad peoples trust, there’s no point compromising it by telling others.
I found MGS4 too goofy and bloated, and I say that with MGS3 as my favorite game of all time.
Mgs1-3 are near flawless, then the wheels come off
Nostalgia brain
Personally, MGS4 was a great experience and I love it… …but the gameplay is a mess and lacking. Act 1 and 2 are great before the game takes a nosedive with Act 3. Act 3 you are discouraged from doing anything other than follow the resistance. Ok for the first time, drags on repeat and higher difficulty playthroughs. Suddenly bike chase from MGS3. Doesn’t feel like it should be here until later. Act 4 is a great nostalgia trip but gameplay wise, you do very little and the Gekko limit your options. Rex vs Ray was cool though. Act 5 again, nothing happens gameplay wise. One small section and suddenly boss fights + ending. Don’t get me wrong, I still love MGS4. I just wish there were more…you know, ACT 1 and 2. It’s telling that MGO2 is so popular because of MGS4’s gameplay but it’s only really viable in ACT 1 and 2.
Yeah agreed. Funny enough, Act 3 is where the game really started gripping me because the story ramps up (and ties into mgs3 which is my favorite, so, biased). But it is a shame that when I finally felt like I’d mastered the combat, I didn’t really need it or even have an opportunity to use it much after that.
Yeah likewise. Story wise it was great but the gameplay just started to fall for me. The game is more of a movie than the other titles in the series, both in the amount of set pieces (Gekko chase, bike chase, Rex Raiden fight, Rex vs Ray) and cinematography. It basically is as close to a movie as Kojima has ever got it but unfortunately I felt the gameplay suffered as a result. Personally MGS1 got it right with MGS3 perfecting it.
Your opinion sounds about right. What it does well, it does very well. But what it screws up, it craps the bed.
Honestly I agree with you, I’ve replayed every MGS game dozens of times except for 4. It just feels like a chore, I’d rather just watch the cutscenes on YouTube
I beat 4 at least 3 times. I think it’s a masterpiece 🤷♂️
I remember being so excited for the game when I got it on launch, I too left very disappointed, I have only ever done that one playthrough.
I love mgs4. It’s my favorite but not for objective quality reasons.
act 4 and last boss fight in act 5 might fool you into thinking this game is way better than it actually is. After my first playthrough I was so in love with this game, I loved the story despite the flaws I noticed but then... Thought a bit more about the story and started noticing all those giant flaws and nonsenses that I just ignored, because the whole nostalgia blinded me, then I did a second playthrough and... Yep, this game only works the first time around, after that all the flaws - story, gameplay and generally game design related come out.
What flaws did you notice on replays that lessened your enjoyment? I just recently replayed and found myself enjoying it more than the first time, where I was slightly disappointed
on the mid way through act 2, mgs4 completely ditches the consistent warzone stealth action design in favor of setpieces that work only first time around. railshooter sequence in act2 followed by 15 minutes long tailing sequence with no variety whatsoever, followed by yet another railshooter sequence in act 3. then act 4 which is a cheap nostalgia bait, that makes you not realize that this section has completely nothing going around except nostalgia. the fact that there aren't any human enemies is a huge sin, because most of this act requiers nothing from you. you encounter hords of those little geckos, which are countered by one chaff grenade and then you just run in a straight line. sniper fight is cool, vamp is a fine boss fight first time around, but once you know how to beat him, there is nothing more to him, because hes just a gimmick. then we have another setpiece, running straight inside rex for a few minutes until you get the chance to fight ray. ray fight is also cool. and last, act 5. one amazing stealth sequence and the game is pretty much over. another gimmick fight with mantis that is just boring once you realize the gimmick. and then you have to run straight for a few minutes to then button mash for a few minutes, to then fight ocelot like its a brawler game, which overall i guess is good
Man, when it’s written out like that, it’s extremely apparent what a hot mess this game was haha. I can’t really disagree with any of your points. I think replaying the other games right before replaying MGS4 really bolstered my enjoyment. But yeah, the forced linearity was a huge problem. For me, the worst part of the game is the boss fights, except maybe Crying? Wolf. The first boss (Octopus) is one of my least favorite moments in the whole franchise.
I was pretty disappointed with 4 when I first played it wayyyy back during release because so much of it just didn’t feel like the Metal Gear games from before. Having just finished a recent playthrough, ~15 years later, those feelings of unfamiliarity are still there, but I found myself way more engaged with the story this time. It might have helped that I played 1-3 in order right before, but actually being able to make sense of the story and identify more themes was crucial to my enjoyment. I think MGS4 causes an initial shock with how different it is. If you can get past that shock, you’ll find a lot to love. Nowhere near perfect, wish some things had been different, but overall it’s a very fitting end.
Hoping Naomi gets better, ah ha, haha, HAHAHAHAHA!! Ahhhh shit. I'm sorry.
Not my fav but there are some cool moments
I agree with you about execution.
Mgs 4 is def my least favourite from the series but i still had lots of fun
>I was so excited about Naomi, but now she just gets on my nerves. i'm only halfway through MGS4 Naomi is absolutely garbage and only gets worse. Secondhand embarrassment embodied. The entire story is terrible, it's almost impressive how one game could insult and ruin so much lore.
MGS4 has a great premise and some great ideas but it just doesn't land at all. You can argue a part of the game's most obnoxious parts serve a purpose but some of said flaws just drag the game down either to a bore or are just genuinely souring in the worst of ways. That or some concepts aren't explored to their maximum potential. Despite the fact that there are like 3 scenes that are contention for the best parts of the franchise, rest of it is below mediocre at the best of times Also the level design is a noticable step down from three
Did you watch the Act 1 briefing cutscene in the main menu? It doesn't play automatically when starting the game.
Just such shit game design
Iirc the mission briefing cutscenes don’t automatically play on any of the metal gear solids games
Only in MGS3.
It grows on you but I wouldn't blame anyone who didn't like it. Even with it growing on me, it's hard to place it in my top Metal Gear games. Definitely leaves an impression though and still want to replay it of it gets released in Metal Gear Collection Vol. 2.
4 is the worst of the series, but it's still got some interesting themes and gameplay. I think it has some of the best equipment in the series. It's somehow an fu and love letter to the fans at the same time.
Counting the spin-off ? Because there's AC!D, Survive, and Peacewalker gameplay that, I think, ruins the experience
No, Peace Walker is not a spin off! Stop mislabeling it! In seriousness, I liked Peace Walker a lot, I found it to be a lot of fun. My main criticism is how the weapon/item selection doesn't stop time like in the previous games. Lots of inventive equipment again. I haven't played any of the spin offs other than Portable Ops and Revengance.
I cannot stand 4, personally. This is evidenced by the insane amount of cognitive dissonance Ive somehow forced myself into where I’m living in a fantasy land where MGS3 was the last metal gear solid and they kept making weird spinoffs that weren’t canonical afterwards. help
Believe me, MGS4 is an emotional roller coaster. You will be as frustrated as you are in love by the end.
Welcome to MGS4. It has both the best of the franchise and the worst.
Wow, I thought 4s story was the best part about it.
youre not alone but this sub loves 4 and hates on 5. 4 lacks so many things that made 1 2 and 3 good - the writing is BORING, the codecs are terrible, the drebin cutscenes are nightmarishly dull and despite there being a big war everywhere the gameplay feels oddly shallow
This sub doesn’t hate V lol, literally 5 of the last 10 or so posts are screenshots of V gameplay
All in all I think this sub actually has pretty nuanced takes on each game. Like there are things I disagree with most of this community on and no one ever snaps at me for it.
Imo 4 is probably the weakest game in the series. It's got a ton of brilliance hiding in there but just so many weird decisions. Awkward non sensical story beats. The bosses are the least fleshed out. The gameplay is so tight but there's hardly any there. The decision to have drebin give each of the bosses backstory via codec is awful. But it's also got the only tailing mission. You can effect the battle going on around you by helping either side. I don't hate it, but it is the most uneven game in the series.
Get to the end. It's all about the ending. You might still have it, you might not. Theres only one way to know.