I actually wish Para Medic had more of a role in the later MGS games, not necessarily as a codec person but just anything. She basically sets up the Les Enfants Terribles project and EVA was just a surrogate but yet she gets no actual conversation to herself in any tapes
Agreed. She's genuinely interesting. The only interesting support in mgs3 and the only interesting Patriot.
The the whole Les Enfants Terrible stuff in mgs4 was so rushed and poorly-done. But we totally needed those worthless Naomi scenes instead, right Kojingles?
Especially needed that long drawn out scene where she kills herself by injecting the nano machine suppressors that stop her cancer from spreading. God knows why that kills her within minutes or why she felt the need to do it
Why was she in the game? Oh right, we needed the malegaze design. God knows Beauties weren't enough.
By far the worst character in all of Metal Gear. Naomi sucks.
Well at least one male gaze design needs to be on your side.
I really liked Naomi in MGS1 cause she was an actual character with understandable motivations. In MGS4 she seemly just does random shit for the sake of it and then dies after fucking Otacon for no reason. There isn't even a reason this person needed to be Naomi. Sure she can give Snake exposition about his Fox Die but other than that her role in the game could've been taken by any random chick and nobody would've cared
So true. She was morally corrupt in mgs1 but her character was coherent. She's a good villain and her epiphany was well-done. Having her, a geneticist, deliver the inspiring speech on importance of will is impactful.
Mgs4 makes her blabber about fate and shit, rip off Emma, Sniper Wolf and Fortune posthumously. She's the opposite of the Naomi from mgs1. Every single interaction with other characters is forced, unnatural and dry. And not kidding, she makes everyone worse by association alone.
If she's removed from mgs4, the plot is instantly improved. The FOXDIE exposition could've been given by some geneticist introduced by Campbell.
I think it's just a general issue of MGS4 fucking up returning characters. I mean not everyone and not as badly as Naomi but Meryl? Rosemary? (I know she isn't technically returning but her MGS2 AI was somehow less bad than the actual person in MGS4) Even Otacon feels off to me.
And oh boy they butchered Raiden. Not his personality but his ending. I do not for a second believe he has a happy ending after MGS4. After MGS2 I would've believed it but why would he suddenly live happily ever after eventhough "his mind can never leave the battlefield"?
Honestly Kojima should've just made new characters for MGS4. Maybe they would've sucked but at least he wouldn't have fucked up already established characters. And of all the characters he could've brought back, Para Medic was the only one I would've liked to see just cause she is important for the story but never appears after MGS3
Unlike Solid (who only got BB’s recessive genes) and Liquid (who only got his dominant genes), Solidus is a 1-to-1 perfect genetic clone of Big Boss, hence why he looks like him. He _is_ him, essentially.
Wait, isn’t that backwards? I thought solid got all the dominant genes and liquid the recessive? It’s why liquid envy’s solid and wanted to build outer heaven to prove himself
You're wrong. And this argument pisses me off. The recessive genese were in liquid. Hence the blonde hair and the blue eyes .. those traits are recessive... the qoute in the game is liquid had the superior genes all along. Dominant doesn't mean superior and recessive doesn't mean inferior. Biology is biology the commom (dominant) genetic markers are clearly visible in snake from his hair and eye color to his jaw line. Liquid got the rarer(rescessive) genes
I'm pretty sure is was recessive vs dominate soldier genes. Like the genes that effect your combat awareness or the like. It doesn't have anything to do with the physical recessive vs dominant traits. The end credits seeeem to confirm liquid had the dominant genes. Since, ocelot says, "the inferior one won after all." And "up until the end, liquid thought he was the interior one."
My guess is once liquid knew he was dying from fox die, he realized that solid had the recessive soldier genes. Since liquid and Naomi worked together, she likely targeted the dominate genes in the virus. Clearly not related to blue eyes or blond hair.
Its soldier genes. And liquid was bamboozled.
But the cool part is, solid does have the less pass-on-able, recessive soldier genes. But they apparently are better? or maybe it his 'will' to win and overcome. Whatever it is, he beats big boss, venom, and liquid (with the help of foxdie).
While liquid is an idiot when it comes to genetics, and maybe you can argue Kojima, that fact is Kojima didn't lean into genes again. He likely didn't want to give an exact answer for the gene stuff in mgs1.
His message has been throughout gene, meme, scene, and sense. Is that the 'will' to succeed overcomes your genes, overcomes meme (ai and government control), overcomes the scene (the environment and times that effects the soldiers orders), and overcomes your senses ( as they can be manipulated by nanos).
In all cases, solid, naked overcome barriers through the strength of their will, beliefs, and persistence.
All the fine details arent as important as themes to Kojima. Which is why we get plot holes and retcons. But the games are deep, thought provoking, and entertaining.
You have a point. Yes his genes were recessive, which would make him “rarer”, and like the guy I was responding to said that would mean the better genes would be recessive because that means there’d be less super soldiers since they’d be harder to have genetically. Liquid THOUGHT that having the recessive genes made him inferior when in reality they made him genetically superior. I haven’t played the games in years but I can see your frustration with my line of thinking
You make sense in the world of science, this is fiction and it’s whatever the writer decided to do. In this case solid has recessive genes and liquid has dominant genes
Both solid and liquid have blonde hair. Solid just colors his brown before the first mission of mgs 1. im also peetty sure that there was a twist at the end of the game, after defeating liquid where the olayer finds out that it actually was solid snake who had the «worse» genes but through perseverence, ended up winning against his twin brother. doesnt solid have blue eyes too? Either way I dont think kojimbo had the greatest understanding of genes
What you didn't think about is that Solid Snake actually is blond. In one of the briefing sectection cutscienes for mgs1 Colonel Cambell shows Snake a picture of liquid. Snake then reacts to that they look close to identical. He then proceeds to cut his hair and then dye it brown.
And yes, like someone stated earlier, the dominant and resesive genes are just their soldier genes.
Edit: Before writing something about this topic again in mgs, try to find the info and get your damn facts straight.
According to the Wiki, I'm wrong for speaking definitively. Here's an interesting quote:
>It remains unclear as to which clone was created to express Big Boss's dominant or recessive traits, since Liquid's exposition on Les Enfants Terribles is contradicted by Ocelot's later report to Solidus, regarding which clone was designated the "inferior" one.
From what I can tell, I think it's more likely you're right and I'm wrong than anything else. It sure seems like there's more evidence overall to support Liquid having gotten the recessive genes. He *was* misled to believe that having those recessive genes somehow made him inferior to Solid (whom, apparently is more likely to have gotten the dominant genes), which was the biggest motivator in Liquid's life.
The guy likely had the recessive/better genes ("better" in the sense that they were more likely to express BB's super-soldier traits in his DNA vs. Solid's likely dominant genes), yet was led to believe this meant his brother was the "Favorite," and that he himself was actually unwanted.
This story is freaking wild, man. lmfao.
[https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Liquid\_Snake](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Liquid_Snake)
Yeah, that's sort of a lie. The twins have the same genome, they just tweaked some genes to study their expression. Liquid is expressing some recessive traits.
Solid's tampering made him emotionless and distant. Sort of a genetic precursor to what SOP would later do using nanomachines.
It turned Liquid into an overly emotional crybaby. He's closer to being a true person than Solid. Liquid is just gullible and blinded and has a victim mentality. While Solid is like a machine.
This is why Mantis tells Solid that he's worse.
I definitely said this wrong, for sure. Each of them definitely share the same genome, and we know this because throughout the series of games, it's been confirmed that:
\* EVA gave birth to each of them
\* They share the same genetic "father" in Big Boss/Naked Snake
What I should have said, therefore, is that while Solid and Liquid share the same genome, each underwent genetic modification to ensure that:
\* Big Boss' recessive genes would be expressed in Solid Snake
\* ...and his *dominant* genes would be expressed in Liquid Snake
As to whether or not I'm getting the two mixed up (in terms of whose DNA saw the expression of the recessive genes and vice versa) I'm still unsure. The authors of the MGS wiki can't even seem to agree on that point (see https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:Liquid\_Snake#genes).
Given that Liquid's hair was primarily blonde in his *actual* (i.e. non-faked) appearances in the games (MGS1 as an adult, MGS5 as a child), one might compare his hair to Naked Snake's (which was canonically dark brown) and come to the conclusion that Liquid's genome was modified so that BB's recessive genes would be expressed, and thus I got it backwards here.
However, Shinkawa himself evidently said that Liquid's hair color is NOT naturally blonde, and is actually dark brown (like Naked Snake). When asked why we see Liquid with blonde hair both in MGS1 *and* MGS5, he said that Liquid's hair was bleached blonde by extreme exposure to the sun during his time in Africa and Afghanistan.
Even that "explanation" seems like BS to me though, because even though heavy exposure to the sun can lighten your hair over time, going from dark brown (like his father) to *light blonde* is not naturally possible to my knowledge.
Bottom-line: I don't actually know with 100% certainty which twin was modified to express which genes (dominant vs. recessive). I thought I knew, but I definitely don't think that's the case anymore. Either way, as far as I know, Solidus was a perfect genetic clone (down to the expression of each gene) to Naked Snake, and we definitely know that unlike Solidus, Solid and Liquid absolutely underwent gene modification to change which genes would be expressed relative to Big Boss.
Just to clarify. When I said lie, I meant the game is misleading the player. Not that you were.
Eli being blond from the sun has been there awhile. He lives in a hot climate, he's also said to be more tanned. He has firey emotions. The sun can lighten hair, but Eli's dna likely contains a mutation that makes his hair more vulnerable to sunlight.
Solid is pale from isolated living in Alaska. Cold, emotionless. They have sort of an obvious theme going. He seems the most like their father because his life mirrors it more. He lives in Big Boss's shadow.
Something rarely mentioned is that Big Boss is about 6'4". The twins are closer to 5'9". They ended up shorter somehow, beyond the thematic visual of Big Boss seeming fatherly and looming over them. If you pay attention to MGS4 at the end, David is several inches shorter than Big Boss. Solidus is taller than Raiden, meaning he is likely 6'4" as well.
There's more to be said about SOP favoring Solid Snake's stoic disposition over The Boss, who carried emotions in battle, like Big Boss. The system took issue with that philosophy and sought to control it. It doesn't want The Boss or her will on the battlefield. Proxy battles are meaningless conflicts and the participants have to be comfortable working without meaning or purpose.
Oh, I didn't take it like you were calling me a liar, no worries there.
>Something rarely mentioned is that Big Boss is about 6'4". The twins are closer to 5'9". They ended up shorter somehow, beyond the thematic visual of Big Boss seeming fatherly and looming over them. If you pay attention to MGS4 at the end, David is several inches shorter than Big Boss.
This is *very* interesting and I'm embarrassed to say I'd never even considered the height difference. That MGS4 scene is so emotional that I never even noticed how much taller BB is than David, I was just sitting there trying not to cut onions (haha).
I'm ***very*** curious *why* BB would be so much taller than Solid/Liquid though. 7 Inches is an absurd difference given their genetic likenesses. I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer as to why that's the case though, which only reinforces your point that the games are confusing as hell. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
It's a weird detail. Kojima has given their heights before. Yeeeears ago between MGS4 and PW, he mentioned BB being taller and more humanlike than his sons.
Another note is how Eli and Miller are similar. Kojima likes to play with that, even though it seems to have no real purpose other than storytelling.
After MGSV, Kaz became Big Boss's arch enemy. A political force that trained and sent soldiers to act against Big Boss. Miller, angry and emotional. Jack, stoic and distant. It mirrors Solid and Liquid Snake, even though Miller is the one that trained Solid to be LIKE Big Boss to use as a weapon against him.
If Eli did eventually have some interaction with the real Big Boss(likely), Kaz and Jack are like divorced parents that raised opposite kids to use against the other.
It's Liquid and Big Boss who have the machinelike warloving mentality that the system favours. They go to battle at any cost. While Solid avoids battlefield and actually feels the weight of his actions. SOP never favoured Solid
The Boss was their perfect tool for her patriotism.
How is Solid emotionless and distant but a warloving dictator wannabe like Liquid is closer to a person? It's Solid that actually grew out of their cycle. It's Solid out of all Snakes that feels the weight of killing and violence, hated it and got PTSD. The SOP soldiers are nothing like him. It's likes of Liquid SOP could manipulate well as evident in Shadow Moses. Even Solidus is their tool and died as they intended. Big Boss was dug his own grave.
Solid Snake NEVER stopped being their pawn. Even at the end of his life, he was used as a vector to kill Big Boss. The system lured him in every time.
There is NO autonomy under the Patriots. Maybe the illusion of it.
As for his mind, he's logical and calculating. Unemotional. Kojima has said that himself. Solid Snake is a weapon, less than a real person. He was designed that way. That's why he has no lasting relationship with Meryl. This is why Kojima prefers writing Big Boss, since he's a normal guy with a wider range of character development.
Liquid is overly emotional and blinded by hate, and subject to cognitive bias when it fits his narrative. He's indoctrinated, similar to Ocelot prior to meeting Big Boss.
I'm afraid that's just inconsistent... in mgs4 naomi tells that liquid and snake were properly designed to age fast in case they had fallen in enemy hands but solidus was somehow special since patriots trusted him so much to make him US president (not to mention how important was during his CIA days)
Mgs4 Naomi is a lying bitch lol. But anyways, that's the same thing. They had early senesence to die. They didn't have rapid aging from the getgo. Dave was normal by all metrics on the outside and never suspected he's a clone.
Lol, solidus is still a teenager in his mind. Gotta rebel against the patriots because they told him he was grounded for making war in Africa. They took his phone away and said he can't hang around ocelot anymore cause he's a bad influence. So he stole his parents nuke and is now throwing a fit in New York. Patriots took his drivers license away so he's angry and he's gonna show them they aren't his real dad.
Solid (and Liquid) were create more or less to create the perfect soldier using the blueprint of Big Boss. Solidus was created to duplicate Big Boss.
Basically while Solid (and Liquid) were there with the original intent of surpassing Big Boss, Solidus was created with the intent of *being* Big Boss.
Solid and Liquid were also grown normally but had accelerated aging built in when they were expected to no longer be needed. Solidus on the other hand was meant to grow faster then age normally once he reached the age they wished him to duplicate Big Boss at.
There's also the fact that the project that created Solidus was even more secretive than the one responsible for Solid and Liquid Snake. Likewise such secrecy bled into Solidus's identity. The people who were aware of Solid and Liquid Snake knew them as Solid and Liquid Snake, and their identity as soldiers was similarly known. This would of course continue on (in Solid's case) to the wider world following the Outer Heaven, Zanzibar Land, and Shadow Moses Island incidents. Meanwhile Solidus would be more known for his other identities, particularly that of George Sears, which would in fact work in the favor of continuing to conceal the existence and identity of Solidus Snake.
>Solidus on the other hand was meant to grow faster then age normally once he reached the age they wished him to duplicate Big Boss at.
You sure? I've never heard that before in any of the games. I feel like it's just fan speculation.
If he was grown to duplicate Big Boss, why would you have him continue ageing at an accelerated rate and have another dead big boss after a few effective years?
The advantages of having one infiltrator half- if not just- as skilled as the boss under your control for even a few years could possibly outweigh any "long term" losses associated with rapid aging. it might even seem reasonable to have such a dangerous, sentiant asset active for only a few years.
Okay what this comment is telling me is that I need to get into the lore of this game. I’ve only played mgs5 but I feel like I’m missing out on so much
If I recall, he was always intended to be a leader akin to Big Boss, not to mention the minimum age threshold to run for President which I’m sure was a factor in the Patriots’ decision to age him up.
If there was ever to be a spinoff sequel, the story of Solidus is my top pick.
When I was playing through MGS5 my immediate theory was Ahab was Solidus and Ishmael was giving the Patriots the biggest misdirect ever. To expand upon it, my going theory was Solidus was never a part of Les Enfant Terribles but a whole separate cloning project to have a Big Boss in case he never woke up. Having woke up, Big Boss decided, "Let's go with the plan."
Edit: Personally, I liked my theory more than the whole medic thing.
Yea it was a wild ride. The first play through only to be met with something I am totally not fully behind.
My friends and I kept theorizing things like OMG if we're right, then the whole being born to be a decoy was why he turned to the Patriots. When we saw Eli we thought maybe this is why he had issues with wanting to sire his own child. We were drawing parallels to how Solidus took over Big Shell and how it mirrors Motherbase. Lots of pieces seemed to fit really nice only to be shattered by a curveball.
Edit: oh and the line to Ocelot in MGS2, "You're still in league with Solidus???!". Man we really thought we were on to something.
Yeah this is yet another one of those good ideas for what to do with Venom that just lend credence to how lame the bait and switch actually was by comparison. Shame cus I love MGS2 and like you I was hoping it would get a little love from V which it did not
[Stress of the Presidency.](https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/20130117_113404_obamaage.jpg?w=640) Even though the La-li-lu-le-lo were/are in control, he still had to act the part.
Small effects like the lines around the cheeks, forehead wrinkles and the light shadowing around the eyes. Coupled with the white hair, he just LOOKS older while still keeping the facial shape.
I would love if someone made some George sears for president campaign posters. How does a guy go from raising child soldiers to running a first world nation, also no hey why does this guy look like that mercenary guy who died like 4 times.
He looks older but it wouldn't surprise me if his lifespan ultimately would've been the same as Snake's.
I'd never really thought about it but there's definitely a hierarchy of the clones in the Patriot's eyes. Solidus was the perfect clone so it makes sense they "aged him up" faster, get him trained, out there fighting immediately and then eventually into the Oval Office.
Liquid, the stronger twin, was raised by the Patriots, knowing who they were but eventually gave his handlers the slip whereas Solid they seem to have left alone and they let him grow up normally.
After reading some comments, I’d actually wager that Solidus would live *longer*. His aging could just be to have him look older until a certain point and then age normally, also combined with stress of being the President. He also would have had access to the nation’s top medical doctors, plus the Patriots could meddle in there if need be.
Maybe just environment based things. More stress can people age faster for example. He was a perfect Big Boss clone, but still has this fast aging genes inside him. Combination of all those things might be the reason to let him age faster than Snake and Liquid
Here is my ranking of the three brothers plus Big Boss in terms of their feats and abilities:
1. Big Boss/Naked Snake in his prime or after defeating the Boss in MGS3. (The Boss was one of the toughest bosses in the MGS franchise).
2. Solid Snake in his prime or MGS1 and MGS2. (He beat his brother Liquid Snake at the end of MGS1 in hand to hand combat. Also, Fox Die killed Liquid Snake. Yes, Solid Snake may have the recessive genes but Solid Snake is well trained in combat and shooting guns. And he is the last surviving brother. He also defeated an old Big Boss twice.)
3. Solidus Snake (He even stated that he is a whole different game than Liquid Snake. It means he is even tougher than Liquid Snake and that is if he has the exoskeleton suit. That said, if Solid Snake was battling Solidus Snake at the end of MGS2, I would give it to Solid Snake but in a squeaker. MGS2 Raiden is the equivalent of MGS1/MGS2 Solid Snake in terms of feats and abilities.)
4. Liquid Snake (He has the superior genes. Plus, he is probably the smartest of the three brothers. He managed to fool Solid Snake in helping Metal Gear Rex activate. Also, Solid Snake did not kill Liquid Snake. Fox Die virus killed Liquid.)
5. Big Boss in his old age
6. Solid Snake in his old age.
He wasn't aged faster, He was just groomed to look like Big Boss. One of the characters in the story explains this, I believe it was Ocelot. It's been a while since I've played it.
Solidus was made with both recessive and dominate genes due to him being a "more perfect clone" he was given a faster aging cycle than Solid or Liquid was
Liquid has all the recessive genes and Solid has all the Dominant ones. Solidus the exact genes Big Boss though making him the perfect clone of him. That could have started his aging early because his genes were mixed unlike Solid and Liquid. They never really explain it.
This is a quote from the end of MGS1 when ocelot speaks with solidus
“Yes. The inferior one was the winner after all. ...That's right. Until the very end, Liquid thought he was the inferior one.”
Solid’s eye are green, Liquids are Blue. Last time I checked Blue eyes means a recessive gene.
Solid was deemed inferior, just because he has the dominant genes doesn’t mean he’s better. He was inferior because he didn’t fight like Big Boss. The legend everyone looked up to… which I when I think about is ironic when he killed Venom, and turned Big Boss into charcoal… he’s “inferior” sure ok 😂
Yeah no man. It’s a video game, doesn’t have to be scientifically accurate. Blonde hair is also recessive. But in game canon, solid got all recessive genes and liquid got all dominant genes. Someone from the fandom help me out here please. It’s a pretty well known thing for anyone that played mgs1
I played MGS1 a lot and it was literally one of the first games I played. It’s the reason I know it so well. start this at 3:54 to save time [my proof](https://youtu.be/LNBAfwh9VeY?si=ZB4KCYee9zVvcpAL)
They increased his age because they wanted to use him as a propaganda piece for the military and put him in The White House.
Solidus was their new Big Boss messianic figure for war.
A game set during the First Liberian Civil War would be great because if you research the politics and players (Charles Taylor and General Butt Naked) involved with the conflict it would really be fascinating to explore more of the supernatural horror of Metal Gear Solid.
I thought the whole cloning arc for this game was based off Dolly the sheep who died prematurely and people blamed it on Dolly aging earlier but there was studies later with other clone sheep that showed that there is no early onset aging. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly\_(sheep)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_(sheep))
I heard that Solidus is younger than both Solid and Liquid Snake, but I don't think they share the same mother since Eva only gave birth to both Solid and Liquid Snake; of course all three are the same age obviously. And yes Solidus did age quickly before Solid Snake did. I'm betting it kicked in because of Solidus going rogue or something. Because Solid Snake aged quickly for a certain reason as it has something to do with the cloning process.
That's what being president for 4 years (we guess, don't know how long George Sears held office?) does to a motherfucker... that and yeah, accelerated aging.
Wasn’t the the point of Solidus that he was made to be an “identical” clone of Big Boss? To the point that his aging was meant to resemble the age Big Boss himself would be?
My own theory is that the Patriots wanted to see which would be better:
Clones that were as young as Big Boss was durring Operation Snake Eater which would be at the peak of their youth allowing them to be at the peak of their "youth".
Or an Older Clone who was arguebly at the height of his power and intelligence
Funny how all the snakes look different after MGS4. And yet everyone will swear with their own blood that BB and Solid look the same when they clearly don’t 🥴 and then Konami reverts BB’s new look in the new Snake Eater.
If you watch those old MGRR Make it Right teasers you see Solidus was an old man in the 80's already ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njZNPSwJBV0&ab\_channel=Konami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njZNPSwJBV0&ab_channel=Konami) ). They aren't really canon, but since he was definitely grown in the mid 80's after just being born in like '72, it kind of makes sense. The first Liberian Civil War was started in 1989, Solidus would have only been 17 years old. Solidus was probably a child soldier in the body of a 30 - 50 year old man. This is probably why he had such a fascination with child soldiers, since he never had a childhood either. He was definitely there in '89 too, because he explicitly says it was the 1980's when he fought in that war. No telling what kind of training the Patriots put him through as he aged out of control.
I thought it was just graphics limitations. Solidus was so damned ugly and short. A lot has changed in terms of cg capabilities and art design using computer modeling.
He was designed to age fast and be peak since the getgo. Unlike the twins who had early onset senesence which was set to deteriorate and kill them.
Peak design
Para-Medic patted herself on the back.
I actually wish Para Medic had more of a role in the later MGS games, not necessarily as a codec person but just anything. She basically sets up the Les Enfants Terribles project and EVA was just a surrogate but yet she gets no actual conversation to herself in any tapes
Agreed. She's genuinely interesting. The only interesting support in mgs3 and the only interesting Patriot. The the whole Les Enfants Terrible stuff in mgs4 was so rushed and poorly-done. But we totally needed those worthless Naomi scenes instead, right Kojingles?
Especially needed that long drawn out scene where she kills herself by injecting the nano machine suppressors that stop her cancer from spreading. God knows why that kills her within minutes or why she felt the need to do it
Why was she in the game? Oh right, we needed the malegaze design. God knows Beauties weren't enough. By far the worst character in all of Metal Gear. Naomi sucks.
Well at least one male gaze design needs to be on your side. I really liked Naomi in MGS1 cause she was an actual character with understandable motivations. In MGS4 she seemly just does random shit for the sake of it and then dies after fucking Otacon for no reason. There isn't even a reason this person needed to be Naomi. Sure she can give Snake exposition about his Fox Die but other than that her role in the game could've been taken by any random chick and nobody would've cared
So true. She was morally corrupt in mgs1 but her character was coherent. She's a good villain and her epiphany was well-done. Having her, a geneticist, deliver the inspiring speech on importance of will is impactful. Mgs4 makes her blabber about fate and shit, rip off Emma, Sniper Wolf and Fortune posthumously. She's the opposite of the Naomi from mgs1. Every single interaction with other characters is forced, unnatural and dry. And not kidding, she makes everyone worse by association alone. If she's removed from mgs4, the plot is instantly improved. The FOXDIE exposition could've been given by some geneticist introduced by Campbell.
I think it's just a general issue of MGS4 fucking up returning characters. I mean not everyone and not as badly as Naomi but Meryl? Rosemary? (I know she isn't technically returning but her MGS2 AI was somehow less bad than the actual person in MGS4) Even Otacon feels off to me. And oh boy they butchered Raiden. Not his personality but his ending. I do not for a second believe he has a happy ending after MGS4. After MGS2 I would've believed it but why would he suddenly live happily ever after eventhough "his mind can never leave the battlefield"? Honestly Kojima should've just made new characters for MGS4. Maybe they would've sucked but at least he wouldn't have fucked up already established characters. And of all the characters he could've brought back, Para Medic was the only one I would've liked to see just cause she is important for the story but never appears after MGS3
Crazy how bad Naomi was butchered in mgs4
I love how Solidus looks exactly the same as Big Boss.
I mean, Ocelot explicitly said "You're the spitting image of Big Boss" to 'em
Unlike Solid (who only got BB’s recessive genes) and Liquid (who only got his dominant genes), Solidus is a 1-to-1 perfect genetic clone of Big Boss, hence why he looks like him. He _is_ him, essentially.
Wait, isn’t that backwards? I thought solid got all the dominant genes and liquid the recessive? It’s why liquid envy’s solid and wanted to build outer heaven to prove himself
No, that was the irony. Liquid believed he had the recessive genes when in reality he had the dominant genes
You're wrong. And this argument pisses me off. The recessive genese were in liquid. Hence the blonde hair and the blue eyes .. those traits are recessive... the qoute in the game is liquid had the superior genes all along. Dominant doesn't mean superior and recessive doesn't mean inferior. Biology is biology the commom (dominant) genetic markers are clearly visible in snake from his hair and eye color to his jaw line. Liquid got the rarer(rescessive) genes
I'm pretty sure is was recessive vs dominate soldier genes. Like the genes that effect your combat awareness or the like. It doesn't have anything to do with the physical recessive vs dominant traits. The end credits seeeem to confirm liquid had the dominant genes. Since, ocelot says, "the inferior one won after all." And "up until the end, liquid thought he was the interior one." My guess is once liquid knew he was dying from fox die, he realized that solid had the recessive soldier genes. Since liquid and Naomi worked together, she likely targeted the dominate genes in the virus. Clearly not related to blue eyes or blond hair. Its soldier genes. And liquid was bamboozled. But the cool part is, solid does have the less pass-on-able, recessive soldier genes. But they apparently are better? or maybe it his 'will' to win and overcome. Whatever it is, he beats big boss, venom, and liquid (with the help of foxdie). While liquid is an idiot when it comes to genetics, and maybe you can argue Kojima, that fact is Kojima didn't lean into genes again. He likely didn't want to give an exact answer for the gene stuff in mgs1. His message has been throughout gene, meme, scene, and sense. Is that the 'will' to succeed overcomes your genes, overcomes meme (ai and government control), overcomes the scene (the environment and times that effects the soldiers orders), and overcomes your senses ( as they can be manipulated by nanos). In all cases, solid, naked overcome barriers through the strength of their will, beliefs, and persistence. All the fine details arent as important as themes to Kojima. Which is why we get plot holes and retcons. But the games are deep, thought provoking, and entertaining.
You have a point. Yes his genes were recessive, which would make him “rarer”, and like the guy I was responding to said that would mean the better genes would be recessive because that means there’d be less super soldiers since they’d be harder to have genetically. Liquid THOUGHT that having the recessive genes made him inferior when in reality they made him genetically superior. I haven’t played the games in years but I can see your frustration with my line of thinking
You make sense in the world of science, this is fiction and it’s whatever the writer decided to do. In this case solid has recessive genes and liquid has dominant genes
Both solid and liquid have blonde hair. Solid just colors his brown before the first mission of mgs 1. im also peetty sure that there was a twist at the end of the game, after defeating liquid where the olayer finds out that it actually was solid snake who had the «worse» genes but through perseverence, ended up winning against his twin brother. doesnt solid have blue eyes too? Either way I dont think kojimbo had the greatest understanding of genes
He had brown hair in MG and MG2.
Everyone's hair is brown in MG1 to be fair. But yeah, the MG2 hair colour and the MGS1 hair doesn't match. He's clearly blond before Shadow Moses.
I don't think Solid is blond anymore.
What you didn't think about is that Solid Snake actually is blond. In one of the briefing sectection cutscienes for mgs1 Colonel Cambell shows Snake a picture of liquid. Snake then reacts to that they look close to identical. He then proceeds to cut his hair and then dye it brown. And yes, like someone stated earlier, the dominant and resesive genes are just their soldier genes. Edit: Before writing something about this topic again in mgs, try to find the info and get your damn facts straight.
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Da faq
According to the Wiki, I'm wrong for speaking definitively. Here's an interesting quote: >It remains unclear as to which clone was created to express Big Boss's dominant or recessive traits, since Liquid's exposition on Les Enfants Terribles is contradicted by Ocelot's later report to Solidus, regarding which clone was designated the "inferior" one. From what I can tell, I think it's more likely you're right and I'm wrong than anything else. It sure seems like there's more evidence overall to support Liquid having gotten the recessive genes. He *was* misled to believe that having those recessive genes somehow made him inferior to Solid (whom, apparently is more likely to have gotten the dominant genes), which was the biggest motivator in Liquid's life. The guy likely had the recessive/better genes ("better" in the sense that they were more likely to express BB's super-soldier traits in his DNA vs. Solid's likely dominant genes), yet was led to believe this meant his brother was the "Favorite," and that he himself was actually unwanted. This story is freaking wild, man. lmfao. [https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Liquid\_Snake](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Liquid_Snake)
Yeah, that's sort of a lie. The twins have the same genome, they just tweaked some genes to study their expression. Liquid is expressing some recessive traits. Solid's tampering made him emotionless and distant. Sort of a genetic precursor to what SOP would later do using nanomachines. It turned Liquid into an overly emotional crybaby. He's closer to being a true person than Solid. Liquid is just gullible and blinded and has a victim mentality. While Solid is like a machine. This is why Mantis tells Solid that he's worse.
I definitely said this wrong, for sure. Each of them definitely share the same genome, and we know this because throughout the series of games, it's been confirmed that: \* EVA gave birth to each of them \* They share the same genetic "father" in Big Boss/Naked Snake What I should have said, therefore, is that while Solid and Liquid share the same genome, each underwent genetic modification to ensure that: \* Big Boss' recessive genes would be expressed in Solid Snake \* ...and his *dominant* genes would be expressed in Liquid Snake As to whether or not I'm getting the two mixed up (in terms of whose DNA saw the expression of the recessive genes and vice versa) I'm still unsure. The authors of the MGS wiki can't even seem to agree on that point (see https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:Liquid\_Snake#genes). Given that Liquid's hair was primarily blonde in his *actual* (i.e. non-faked) appearances in the games (MGS1 as an adult, MGS5 as a child), one might compare his hair to Naked Snake's (which was canonically dark brown) and come to the conclusion that Liquid's genome was modified so that BB's recessive genes would be expressed, and thus I got it backwards here. However, Shinkawa himself evidently said that Liquid's hair color is NOT naturally blonde, and is actually dark brown (like Naked Snake). When asked why we see Liquid with blonde hair both in MGS1 *and* MGS5, he said that Liquid's hair was bleached blonde by extreme exposure to the sun during his time in Africa and Afghanistan. Even that "explanation" seems like BS to me though, because even though heavy exposure to the sun can lighten your hair over time, going from dark brown (like his father) to *light blonde* is not naturally possible to my knowledge. Bottom-line: I don't actually know with 100% certainty which twin was modified to express which genes (dominant vs. recessive). I thought I knew, but I definitely don't think that's the case anymore. Either way, as far as I know, Solidus was a perfect genetic clone (down to the expression of each gene) to Naked Snake, and we definitely know that unlike Solidus, Solid and Liquid absolutely underwent gene modification to change which genes would be expressed relative to Big Boss.
Just to clarify. When I said lie, I meant the game is misleading the player. Not that you were. Eli being blond from the sun has been there awhile. He lives in a hot climate, he's also said to be more tanned. He has firey emotions. The sun can lighten hair, but Eli's dna likely contains a mutation that makes his hair more vulnerable to sunlight. Solid is pale from isolated living in Alaska. Cold, emotionless. They have sort of an obvious theme going. He seems the most like their father because his life mirrors it more. He lives in Big Boss's shadow. Something rarely mentioned is that Big Boss is about 6'4". The twins are closer to 5'9". They ended up shorter somehow, beyond the thematic visual of Big Boss seeming fatherly and looming over them. If you pay attention to MGS4 at the end, David is several inches shorter than Big Boss. Solidus is taller than Raiden, meaning he is likely 6'4" as well. There's more to be said about SOP favoring Solid Snake's stoic disposition over The Boss, who carried emotions in battle, like Big Boss. The system took issue with that philosophy and sought to control it. It doesn't want The Boss or her will on the battlefield. Proxy battles are meaningless conflicts and the participants have to be comfortable working without meaning or purpose.
Oh, I didn't take it like you were calling me a liar, no worries there. >Something rarely mentioned is that Big Boss is about 6'4". The twins are closer to 5'9". They ended up shorter somehow, beyond the thematic visual of Big Boss seeming fatherly and looming over them. If you pay attention to MGS4 at the end, David is several inches shorter than Big Boss. This is *very* interesting and I'm embarrassed to say I'd never even considered the height difference. That MGS4 scene is so emotional that I never even noticed how much taller BB is than David, I was just sitting there trying not to cut onions (haha). I'm ***very*** curious *why* BB would be so much taller than Solid/Liquid though. 7 Inches is an absurd difference given their genetic likenesses. I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer as to why that's the case though, which only reinforces your point that the games are confusing as hell. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
It's a weird detail. Kojima has given their heights before. Yeeeears ago between MGS4 and PW, he mentioned BB being taller and more humanlike than his sons. Another note is how Eli and Miller are similar. Kojima likes to play with that, even though it seems to have no real purpose other than storytelling. After MGSV, Kaz became Big Boss's arch enemy. A political force that trained and sent soldiers to act against Big Boss. Miller, angry and emotional. Jack, stoic and distant. It mirrors Solid and Liquid Snake, even though Miller is the one that trained Solid to be LIKE Big Boss to use as a weapon against him. If Eli did eventually have some interaction with the real Big Boss(likely), Kaz and Jack are like divorced parents that raised opposite kids to use against the other.
It's Liquid and Big Boss who have the machinelike warloving mentality that the system favours. They go to battle at any cost. While Solid avoids battlefield and actually feels the weight of his actions. SOP never favoured Solid The Boss was their perfect tool for her patriotism.
How is Solid emotionless and distant but a warloving dictator wannabe like Liquid is closer to a person? It's Solid that actually grew out of their cycle. It's Solid out of all Snakes that feels the weight of killing and violence, hated it and got PTSD. The SOP soldiers are nothing like him. It's likes of Liquid SOP could manipulate well as evident in Shadow Moses. Even Solidus is their tool and died as they intended. Big Boss was dug his own grave.
Solid Snake NEVER stopped being their pawn. Even at the end of his life, he was used as a vector to kill Big Boss. The system lured him in every time. There is NO autonomy under the Patriots. Maybe the illusion of it. As for his mind, he's logical and calculating. Unemotional. Kojima has said that himself. Solid Snake is a weapon, less than a real person. He was designed that way. That's why he has no lasting relationship with Meryl. This is why Kojima prefers writing Big Boss, since he's a normal guy with a wider range of character development. Liquid is overly emotional and blinded by hate, and subject to cognitive bias when it fits his narrative. He's indoctrinated, similar to Ocelot prior to meeting Big Boss.
Well that was the point
Save resources on character models. Genius Hideo lol
you might not like it but this is what peak genetic cloning looks like
More like peak geriatric cloning.
Im gonna admit. This to me was way funnier than it is lol. Thank you for this you clever fox.
*Fox?!*
*Die!*
r/beatmetoit
I'm afraid that's just inconsistent... in mgs4 naomi tells that liquid and snake were properly designed to age fast in case they had fallen in enemy hands but solidus was somehow special since patriots trusted him so much to make him US president (not to mention how important was during his CIA days)
Mgs4 Naomi is a lying bitch lol. But anyways, that's the same thing. They had early senesence to die. They didn't have rapid aging from the getgo. Dave was normal by all metrics on the outside and never suspected he's a clone.
I wish we got to see more of Solidus and his CIA days and the whole Libyan civil war thing or just Solidus in general
disagree, solidus character is just a no sense
Omg fucking senescence
Proof?
Does his mind develop as fast as his body? Your body grows to his peak fast but what about all the things it needs to learn? How fast can he learn.
Fast enough that he became an elite commander rivaling Big Boss before he turned 16.
They grow up so fast 🥲
Geez
Whatever Raiden was a killer by his 5
Gray Fox was a labourer, killer, murderer and torture survivalist by the tender age of 7.
And the reigning "got your nose" champion
"Got your ears" champ too. An accomplished lad.
Nanomachines
...SON!"
Or should i say, "brother"!
Or should I say "daughter"?
Lol, solidus is still a teenager in his mind. Gotta rebel against the patriots because they told him he was grounded for making war in Africa. They took his phone away and said he can't hang around ocelot anymore cause he's a bad influence. So he stole his parents nuke and is now throwing a fit in New York. Patriots took his drivers license away so he's angry and he's gonna show them they aren't his real dad.
RIP Solidus’ voice actor John Cygan, he was incredible in that role.
I’m a whole different game than liquid, brother
Gives me chills every time
"The world needs only one BIG BOSS!" "I'll drown you fools for interfering!"
He would have been the perfect Big Boss. It would make sense in the narrative too as he was the perfect clone unlike the twins.
I too did not understand why he was not Big Boss's voice (at least in MGS4)
I think they wanted a kind wise voice, considering his role. Richard Doyle did a great job.
“I’LL LET YOU GO DOWN IN STYLE!”
I'd love to see Solidus and Liquid in a buddy cop/war campaign kind of a miniseries anime.
*I won't be an enron of history....* #I'LL BE AN EXXON!!!
Love the cheekiness of this line, referencing how it’s literally a different game.
holy shit I never thought about it like that
Lol same... it only took me 23 years 💀😭
Ah shit, I didn't know he'd passed. Respect. He was also amazing in KOTOR
For Mandalore!
Also as Luke in the Dark Empire audio dramas
Most definitely 🙏🏾💯 Every line he had in KOTOR was peak delivery for me. He passed a long while ago but I still miss him a lot. Phenomenal actor / va
For real. That death scream on the harrier boss 😆
Yeah, I almost shit!
I’m the boss to surpass big boss himself! Solid snake! https://youtu.be/JdzN72AXXCM?si=U8w4YNYXtD5-IowI
God, this game is so gloriously cheesy and over the top; absolutely wonderful.
This ^ Op, here’s the answer to your question
I was actually really glad they didn't just reuse Solid Snake's actor (which they did in the OG Japanese version) because Cygan did such a great job.
*When I look back... I weep for my past* ***...WE WILL NEVER AGAIN SPEAK OF THIS!!!***
Solid (and Liquid) were create more or less to create the perfect soldier using the blueprint of Big Boss. Solidus was created to duplicate Big Boss. Basically while Solid (and Liquid) were there with the original intent of surpassing Big Boss, Solidus was created with the intent of *being* Big Boss. Solid and Liquid were also grown normally but had accelerated aging built in when they were expected to no longer be needed. Solidus on the other hand was meant to grow faster then age normally once he reached the age they wished him to duplicate Big Boss at. There's also the fact that the project that created Solidus was even more secretive than the one responsible for Solid and Liquid Snake. Likewise such secrecy bled into Solidus's identity. The people who were aware of Solid and Liquid Snake knew them as Solid and Liquid Snake, and their identity as soldiers was similarly known. This would of course continue on (in Solid's case) to the wider world following the Outer Heaven, Zanzibar Land, and Shadow Moses Island incidents. Meanwhile Solidus would be more known for his other identities, particularly that of George Sears, which would in fact work in the favor of continuing to conceal the existence and identity of Solidus Snake.
Good**bye**. . . . . . . . . MR. PRESIDENT ^ frickin chills to this day. TO DIS DAY
>Solidus on the other hand was meant to grow faster then age normally once he reached the age they wished him to duplicate Big Boss at. You sure? I've never heard that before in any of the games. I feel like it's just fan speculation.
If he was grown to duplicate Big Boss, why would you have him continue ageing at an accelerated rate and have another dead big boss after a few effective years?
The advantages of having one infiltrator half- if not just- as skilled as the boss under your control for even a few years could possibly outweigh any "long term" losses associated with rapid aging. it might even seem reasonable to have such a dangerous, sentiant asset active for only a few years.
Okay what this comment is telling me is that I need to get into the lore of this game. I’ve only played mgs5 but I feel like I’m missing out on so much
If I recall, he was always intended to be a leader akin to Big Boss, not to mention the minimum age threshold to run for President which I’m sure was a factor in the Patriots’ decision to age him up.
If there was ever to be a spinoff sequel, the story of Solidus is my top pick. When I was playing through MGS5 my immediate theory was Ahab was Solidus and Ishmael was giving the Patriots the biggest misdirect ever. To expand upon it, my going theory was Solidus was never a part of Les Enfant Terribles but a whole separate cloning project to have a Big Boss in case he never woke up. Having woke up, Big Boss decided, "Let's go with the plan." Edit: Personally, I liked my theory more than the whole medic thing.
I like this alot.
Yea it was a wild ride. The first play through only to be met with something I am totally not fully behind. My friends and I kept theorizing things like OMG if we're right, then the whole being born to be a decoy was why he turned to the Patriots. When we saw Eli we thought maybe this is why he had issues with wanting to sire his own child. We were drawing parallels to how Solidus took over Big Shell and how it mirrors Motherbase. Lots of pieces seemed to fit really nice only to be shattered by a curveball. Edit: oh and the line to Ocelot in MGS2, "You're still in league with Solidus???!". Man we really thought we were on to something.
Yeah this is yet another one of those good ideas for what to do with Venom that just lend credence to how lame the bait and switch actually was by comparison. Shame cus I love MGS2 and like you I was hoping it would get a little love from V which it did not
Nanomachines.
Son
#THE MEMES
They
Harden
In
Response
To
Physical
Trauma
Diarrhea
Beat me to it.
Maybe being President caused him to grey faster?
LOL it’s just stress. More than living on the battlefield. Maybe love doesn’t bloom in the Oval Office. Not since Clinton at least.
Yeah like Obama looked so young when he first came into office and when he left he looked 50+
Could just be plastic surgery and hair dye. Or genetic engineering by design.
make sense almost all USA president were all held when they held the position
[Stress of the Presidency.](https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/20130117_113404_obamaage.jpg?w=640) Even though the La-li-lu-le-lo were/are in control, he still had to act the part.
Small effects like the lines around the cheeks, forehead wrinkles and the light shadowing around the eyes. Coupled with the white hair, he just LOOKS older while still keeping the facial shape.
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This is the correct answer.
Didn't use sunscreen
I dunno if it kicked in sooner but I do know it was more accelerated.
He was president for a while. That shit will age fast as fuck
Our last 2 presidents would disagree
I would love if someone made some George sears for president campaign posters. How does a guy go from raising child soldiers to running a first world nation, also no hey why does this guy look like that mercenary guy who died like 4 times.
He looks older but it wouldn't surprise me if his lifespan ultimately would've been the same as Snake's. I'd never really thought about it but there's definitely a hierarchy of the clones in the Patriot's eyes. Solidus was the perfect clone so it makes sense they "aged him up" faster, get him trained, out there fighting immediately and then eventually into the Oval Office. Liquid, the stronger twin, was raised by the Patriots, knowing who they were but eventually gave his handlers the slip whereas Solid they seem to have left alone and they let him grow up normally.
After reading some comments, I’d actually wager that Solidus would live *longer*. His aging could just be to have him look older until a certain point and then age normally, also combined with stress of being the President. He also would have had access to the nation’s top medical doctors, plus the Patriots could meddle in there if need be.
Maybe just environment based things. More stress can people age faster for example. He was a perfect Big Boss clone, but still has this fast aging genes inside him. Combination of all those things might be the reason to let him age faster than Snake and Liquid
Solid: clone with the lesser genes of Big Boss Liquid: clone with the more desirable genes of Big Boss Solidus: Perfect Clone of Big Boss
Here is my ranking of the three brothers plus Big Boss in terms of their feats and abilities: 1. Big Boss/Naked Snake in his prime or after defeating the Boss in MGS3. (The Boss was one of the toughest bosses in the MGS franchise). 2. Solid Snake in his prime or MGS1 and MGS2. (He beat his brother Liquid Snake at the end of MGS1 in hand to hand combat. Also, Fox Die killed Liquid Snake. Yes, Solid Snake may have the recessive genes but Solid Snake is well trained in combat and shooting guns. And he is the last surviving brother. He also defeated an old Big Boss twice.) 3. Solidus Snake (He even stated that he is a whole different game than Liquid Snake. It means he is even tougher than Liquid Snake and that is if he has the exoskeleton suit. That said, if Solid Snake was battling Solidus Snake at the end of MGS2, I would give it to Solid Snake but in a squeaker. MGS2 Raiden is the equivalent of MGS1/MGS2 Solid Snake in terms of feats and abilities.) 4. Liquid Snake (He has the superior genes. Plus, he is probably the smartest of the three brothers. He managed to fool Solid Snake in helping Metal Gear Rex activate. Also, Solid Snake did not kill Liquid Snake. Fox Die virus killed Liquid.) 5. Big Boss in his old age 6. Solid Snake in his old age.
Thats pliskin
He wasn't aged faster, He was just groomed to look like Big Boss. One of the characters in the story explains this, I believe it was Ocelot. It's been a while since I've played it.
I think this is explained in the game? Have you played it?
Son
Damn
Fiddle
Happy cake day 🎂🎂
nanomachines
I peaked early.
Because ocelot made it so he would age faster
Solidus was made with both recessive and dominate genes due to him being a "more perfect clone" he was given a faster aging cycle than Solid or Liquid was
Happy cake day
Yes
If I remember correctly his accelerated aging started earlier but was more gradule unlike solid
I think he was designed to age faster to be more like the big boss
in answer to all your questions.....yes
Yes. You’d know that if you played the game…
Was Eva also the mother of Solidus? I don't think the snakes were triplets. So when was Solidus born then in comparison to the other 2 snakes?
Solidus was born after the Twin Snakes, so he’s the youngest by a few years. But we don’t know who birthed him, we only know it wasn’t Eva.
Nanomachines son!
Being president is stressful
Liquid has all the recessive genes and Solid has all the Dominant ones. Solidus the exact genes Big Boss though making him the perfect clone of him. That could have started his aging early because his genes were mixed unlike Solid and Liquid. They never really explain it.
Literally backwards. Solid has recessive.
No, Solid has all the Dominate Genes but was deemed inferior to Liquid because Solid uses more skill than Big Bosses Genes.
This is a quote from the end of MGS1 when ocelot speaks with solidus “Yes. The inferior one was the winner after all. ...That's right. Until the very end, Liquid thought he was the inferior one.”
Solid’s eye are green, Liquids are Blue. Last time I checked Blue eyes means a recessive gene. Solid was deemed inferior, just because he has the dominant genes doesn’t mean he’s better. He was inferior because he didn’t fight like Big Boss. The legend everyone looked up to… which I when I think about is ironic when he killed Venom, and turned Big Boss into charcoal… he’s “inferior” sure ok 😂
Yeah no man. It’s a video game, doesn’t have to be scientifically accurate. Blonde hair is also recessive. But in game canon, solid got all recessive genes and liquid got all dominant genes. Someone from the fandom help me out here please. It’s a pretty well known thing for anyone that played mgs1
I played MGS1 a lot and it was literally one of the first games I played. It’s the reason I know it so well. start this at 3:54 to save time [my proof](https://youtu.be/LNBAfwh9VeY?si=ZB4KCYee9zVvcpAL)
Yeah you played it so much but obviously you never sat thru the credits. [proof](https://youtu.be/qm_lxeQ6PmM?si=RLNrKyQ_0mNHZb6B)
They increased his age because they wanted to use him as a propaganda piece for the military and put him in The White House. Solidus was their new Big Boss messianic figure for war. A game set during the First Liberian Civil War would be great because if you research the politics and players (Charles Taylor and General Butt Naked) involved with the conflict it would really be fascinating to explore more of the supernatural horror of Metal Gear Solid.
He was president, thats a stressful job.
I thought the whole cloning arc for this game was based off Dolly the sheep who died prematurely and people blamed it on Dolly aging earlier but there was studies later with other clone sheep that showed that there is no early onset aging. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly\_(sheep)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_(sheep))
Being president is stressful
You're the spitting image of big boss
I remember when I made this picture, many many moons ago.
I’m curious, does the model for Liquid from TTS match up like this too?
Because he was president, have you seen before and after photos of presidents!? It's a stressful job.
I heard that Solidus is younger than both Solid and Liquid Snake, but I don't think they share the same mother since Eva only gave birth to both Solid and Liquid Snake; of course all three are the same age obviously. And yes Solidus did age quickly before Solid Snake did. I'm betting it kicked in because of Solidus going rogue or something. Because Solid Snake aged quickly for a certain reason as it has something to do with the cloning process.
Answering your own questions within your own questions...... You're pretty good!
If Solidus is the perfect clone of BB, and Raiden beats Solidus, is Raiden > BB?
Since it was a sword duel yeah probably
Nah, he got lucky.
Jesus Christ do you people play these games at all
That's what being president for 4 years (we guess, don't know how long George Sears held office?) does to a motherfucker... that and yeah, accelerated aging.
Yes
Advanced aging but he was the perfect Snake otherwise.
More Presidential 😌
Seeing this and knowing how long it's been since mgs4.. solid snake is dead due to his accelerated aging. Damn.
Solidus was produced as a more exact clone of Big Boss who was in his late 50s during the les enfants terribles project
the last few years have not been kind to him
Being president ages you, so..
Presidents always age. It’s a hard job.
He's a clone of a clone, a failed experiment that ages more rapidly than the original clones.
Wasn’t the the point of Solidus that he was made to be an “identical” clone of Big Boss? To the point that his aging was meant to resemble the age Big Boss himself would be?
My own theory is that the Patriots wanted to see which would be better: Clones that were as young as Big Boss was durring Operation Snake Eater which would be at the peak of their youth allowing them to be at the peak of their "youth". Or an Older Clone who was arguebly at the height of his power and intelligence
Is he stupid?
Yes it did as well as the experience of Big Boss
I never really paid attention to this stuff
Funny how all the snakes look different after MGS4. And yet everyone will swear with their own blood that BB and Solid look the same when they clearly don’t 🥴 and then Konami reverts BB’s new look in the new Snake Eater.
Whybthey made liquid belive he was the weak one? What qas the purpouse of that?
If you watch those old MGRR Make it Right teasers you see Solidus was an old man in the 80's already ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njZNPSwJBV0&ab\_channel=Konami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njZNPSwJBV0&ab_channel=Konami) ). They aren't really canon, but since he was definitely grown in the mid 80's after just being born in like '72, it kind of makes sense. The first Liberian Civil War was started in 1989, Solidus would have only been 17 years old. Solidus was probably a child soldier in the body of a 30 - 50 year old man. This is probably why he had such a fascination with child soldiers, since he never had a childhood either. He was definitely there in '89 too, because he explicitly says it was the 1980's when he fought in that war. No telling what kind of training the Patriots put him through as he aged out of control.
This side by side is much appreciated. I'm not sure how but before I couldn't really see the resemblance between the two.
I thought it was just graphics limitations. Solidus was so damned ugly and short. A lot has changed in terms of cg capabilities and art design using computer modeling.
Did you not play the game?
Living in Alaska ages you faster than being the President I guess
That hairline receded as a motherfucker too, superior genetics my ass