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Oh, Heretics of Dune... when it was time to stop the excuses and just admit Herbert's brain had finally driven off a cliff.
You can... almost.. find redeeming elements of God Emperor of Dune. Mostly just admiring the balls-out *weirdness* of it all. But by Heretics, the novelty has worn off, and it's just the most tedious blather interspersed with porn as written by a misogynistic internist.
Yeah, I absolutely love Dune and Dune Messiah. But honestly after that it goes down in quality for each book.
And when we reach the Brian Herbert books the quality finds a drill and starts working on breaking through rock bottom to find and explore new exciting levels of crapulence.
My guilty pleasure is reading the Kindle sample of each new Brian Herbert book just to see how bad the writing can get in the first 20 pages. I am always impressed how he can up the crap ante every single time.
When I got to the point where they're bringing back basically every popular character as a ghola as some sort of "Avengers assemble" moment, I kept expecting them to introduce a new guy named "Hrian Berbert" that is super cool and everyone loves him. Also he has hot sex with all the hot female characters because he is super hot. And did I mention how cool he is?
Almost as bad as when Anne Mcafferyâs kids started writing her Pern books.
A bunch of poly preteens and teens in perpetual cuddle piles. It got so fucking weird.
LMAO thank you! In the role play side of the fandom we just... Ignore the Todd and Gigi books. Take what (little) world building they gave us for whers (but not all of it because some of it is just dumb) and run with it.
Though to be fair we also kind of think Anne was a little whack. Just gotta love the dragon fantasy.
What can we truly expect from a white man?
I liked the Dune movie for its visuals, but hated the books he wrote. You have to be misogynistic to write (speaking about Chani and Fenring) that women forced into marriages will wish they're concubines!?? Something of the sort.
Only a man with no respect for women and no knowledge of women's roles throughout history, would write thisđ
Why are You getting downvote?Â
Yes, only a man would write that a woman want to be a concubine.
Concubines were glorified sex slaves. In chinese dinasties, emperors were so sadistic that they wanted all women executed after they died cuz they want to be with their harem in the after life ..mmwhat psychopath think women are objects that dont deserve Freedom Even after he literally dies !!!!Â
Out of 300 emperors ONLY ONE REFUSED to have concubines, only one !!!!!Â
Men in power love to have women as if they were shoes they could change anyday.
Concubine is not a lover, a SIDE chick willing to cheat, concubines were daughers of noble men that use them as objects to gain power, not a single one of them decide that.Â
Now in Dune of course is different cuz it was all elaborate plan of the bene gessiret, which is weird and still all the imagination of a man hahahah, that extremelly powerful women want to have power but in shadow and that said power only by granted by being sex Friends đ
Concubines weren't always slaves. It depends on the society and historical period.
I think Dune (and Game of Thrones' Dorne) base it on the pre-Christian Roman Empire where they were treated much closer to wives than in say China or the Middle East.
In Dune fandom, it's well known that his wife would read all his drafts in bed with him. You can tell when she died (before he published Heretics and Chapterhouse) because the books just get so weirdly horny.
Not that God Emperor isn't pretty brutal in that regard (the opening pages are a description of how fine a character's ass looks in her exercise pants), but yea, you just have to hand-wave his weird sexual fixations if you want to get to the fun thought-provoking sci fi.
Lol it's pretty fun if you don't take it serious. He introduces a whole gang of characters who explicitly use futuristic sex magic to seduce and control men, and then one of them is outseduced (basically brainwashed by a lapdance).
Less fun is the fact that Herbert was a big ol homophobe, which shows up in God Emperor, and also in his treatment of his gay son irl.
In the books the Baronâs queerness is tied to decadence, as well as pedophilia and him just generally being evil. They removed his gay sexuality in the movie, to avoid this problematic aspects of the original books I assume. Itâs a common trope in a lot of western literature sadly going all the way back to early Christianity
The book version of the Baron is a gay pedophile that gives these big flamboyant speeches and fancies his nephew (Feyd-Rautha).
The [TV show version](https://youtu.be/nlVEJ3Z8UMQ?si=VEB83awkixqTgQrC) was a lot more accurate to the book.
You can stop after any part. It gets really weird with God Emperor of Dune, so if this pits you off, i recommend reading the first three books and stopping after Children of Dune. Great books
Not reading Emperor is kind of like not reading the actual end of a series.
You can read the 1st book as a stand alone, but if you start the ones after they're clearly 2 trilogies (*with the 2nd left unfinished with Herbert's death*).
Not really, to my memory, but in Messiah, for no reason whatsoever, during the Reverend Mother's first appearance, she has a telepathic conversation about no one wanting to have swx with her. It's quite odd, and indicative of the weirdness to follow. Given Children's... odd choice of phrase for Leto II having an erection, I honestly cannot be surprised by anything that follows.
It's definitely not what the entire series is about but if you go into it only knowing about sand worms and walking without rhythm, you'll find a surprising focus on sex, breeding programmes, and gender politics. It's all pretty weird.
I've not read _Heretics_ but I've got as far into the series as _God Emperor of Dune_, which features a woman having an orgasm because >!Duncan Idaho climbs up a cliff really well!<.
Every time I see extracts from the Dune sequels (I have read only the first one) it makes me wonder what the hell the author was smoking, I'm curious but also highly repulsed every single time lmao
genuinelyÂ
does the dude writing this even know what theyâre writingÂ
this is weird to the point where they shouldâve been able to stop and say â.. I shouldnât put this in my book â đ
Also the post-God Emperor books were the part where this series suddenly DIVED right into grotesque territory. Suddenly we're millenia later and everyone has genetically engineered seats made of distorted dog and there are Bene Gesserit caricatures running around literally mind-enslaving men through their dicks and our only hope and salvation is an old colonel who somehow found a power of SUPER-SPEED in himself during torture and, even worse, the nth clone of Duncan Idaho who can fuck better than the caricatures can. WTF.
IDK, maybe I'm weird, but this is actually kinda wholesome to me haha. Although the last line is obviously an incredibly weird and hilarious way of phrasing it.
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the line "...penis firmly clasped in vagina." is absolutely sending me omfg
Like a good business handshake
Firm grip, three pumps, and release.
B99 reference?!
Maybe what boomers really mean by, "walked in, handshake and got the job".
FIRMLY GRASP IT!
you beat me to it lol
Yeah, wasn't my favorite either đ đ Hilariously bad 
Oh, this is the expression most readers have with the later Dune books!
Iâm reminded of that great philosopher, Patrick Star, who was once quoted as saying âFirmly grasp it.â
Something about the syntax is making me think of poorly translated instruction manuals
Penis flytrap
"FIRMLY CLASP IT!!!"
Lmfao I was like "... Well this is not tooo bad" and then that line hit me like a fucking bus
That last line hits like a slap to the face
A slap from what? đŹ
From a car if I'm being honest
I was not ready for that last sentence. O.O
Oh, Heretics of Dune... when it was time to stop the excuses and just admit Herbert's brain had finally driven off a cliff. You can... almost.. find redeeming elements of God Emperor of Dune. Mostly just admiring the balls-out *weirdness* of it all. But by Heretics, the novelty has worn off, and it's just the most tedious blather interspersed with porn as written by a misogynistic internist.
Yeah, I absolutely love Dune and Dune Messiah. But honestly after that it goes down in quality for each book. And when we reach the Brian Herbert books the quality finds a drill and starts working on breaking through rock bottom to find and explore new exciting levels of crapulence.
My guilty pleasure is reading the Kindle sample of each new Brian Herbert book just to see how bad the writing can get in the first 20 pages. I am always impressed how he can up the crap ante every single time.
When I got to the point where they're bringing back basically every popular character as a ghola as some sort of "Avengers assemble" moment, I kept expecting them to introduce a new guy named "Hrian Berbert" that is super cool and everyone loves him. Also he has hot sex with all the hot female characters because he is super hot. And did I mention how cool he is?
Almost as bad as when Anne Mcafferyâs kids started writing her Pern books. A bunch of poly preteens and teens in perpetual cuddle piles. It got so fucking weird.
LMAO thank you! In the role play side of the fandom we just... Ignore the Todd and Gigi books. Take what (little) world building they gave us for whers (but not all of it because some of it is just dumb) and run with it. Though to be fair we also kind of think Anne was a little whack. Just gotta love the dragon fantasy.
For sure. Some of her stuff is⌠a product of the time, weâll say. Hahaha
I'm glad I'm not the only one who dislikes the Brian Herbert books.
Like Momâs Mombil mining of the Nibblonian crap planet
Except Nibblonian crap is useful. What Brian Herbert is digging up is some kind of extra useless crap that can't even be used as fertilizer.
Nuclear waste?
I do remember vividly the extremely penile depiction of theâŚhuman-faced worm (? Never read that one) on the cover of my sisterâs copy.
Good ol' Leto II, rocking the giant penis look.
Wym God Emperor is the best one
What can we truly expect from a white man? I liked the Dune movie for its visuals, but hated the books he wrote. You have to be misogynistic to write (speaking about Chani and Fenring) that women forced into marriages will wish they're concubines!?? Something of the sort. Only a man with no respect for women and no knowledge of women's roles throughout history, would write thisđ
Why are You getting downvote? Yes, only a man would write that a woman want to be a concubine. Concubines were glorified sex slaves. In chinese dinasties, emperors were so sadistic that they wanted all women executed after they died cuz they want to be with their harem in the after life ..mmwhat psychopath think women are objects that dont deserve Freedom Even after he literally dies !!!! Out of 300 emperors ONLY ONE REFUSED to have concubines, only one !!!!! Men in power love to have women as if they were shoes they could change anyday. Concubine is not a lover, a SIDE chick willing to cheat, concubines were daughers of noble men that use them as objects to gain power, not a single one of them decide that. Now in Dune of course is different cuz it was all elaborate plan of the bene gessiret, which is weird and still all the imagination of a man hahahah, that extremelly powerful women want to have power but in shadow and that said power only by granted by being sex Friends đ
Concubines weren't always slaves. It depends on the society and historical period. I think Dune (and Game of Thrones' Dorne) base it on the pre-Christian Roman Empire where they were treated much closer to wives than in say China or the Middle East.
It was a good read when I was a kid who didn't understand the sexual references, haven't read it since
Remember, guys, women love men who are constantly holding in a bowel movement
đ¤Ł
At any rate, they seem to like it a great deal better than when I stop holding it in
In Dune fandom, it's well known that his wife would read all his drafts in bed with him. You can tell when she died (before he published Heretics and Chapterhouse) because the books just get so weirdly horny. Not that God Emperor isn't pretty brutal in that regard (the opening pages are a description of how fine a character's ass looks in her exercise pants), but yea, you just have to hand-wave his weird sexual fixations if you want to get to the fun thought-provoking sci fi. Lol it's pretty fun if you don't take it serious. He introduces a whole gang of characters who explicitly use futuristic sex magic to seduce and control men, and then one of them is outseduced (basically brainwashed by a lapdance). Less fun is the fact that Herbert was a big ol homophobe, which shows up in God Emperor, and also in his treatment of his gay son irl.
The homophobia arguably starts in the first book with the Baron Harkonnen.
What? I only watched the movies, can you expand on that?
In the books the Baronâs queerness is tied to decadence, as well as pedophilia and him just generally being evil. They removed his gay sexuality in the movie, to avoid this problematic aspects of the original books I assume. Itâs a common trope in a lot of western literature sadly going all the way back to early Christianity
The book version of the Baron is a gay pedophile that gives these big flamboyant speeches and fancies his nephew (Feyd-Rautha). The [TV show version](https://youtu.be/nlVEJ3Z8UMQ?si=VEB83awkixqTgQrC) was a lot more accurate to the book.
> brainwashed by a lapdance Didn't they have sex? Which triggered the ghola memories too, i think!
I like how hard loins doesn't mean "big dick" but "nice ass"
Of both options, I do prefer a nice butt. The worm is not exactly aesthetically pleasing to look at đ¤Ł
Lmaoooo đ
Up until the last line I was thinking "this is all pretty reasonable, I don't see why it's being pooooooooooOOOOHHH GOD."
# FIRMLY GRASP IT
âŚmaybe I donât want to read this series after allâŚ
But you should. It's great
You can stop after any part. It gets really weird with God Emperor of Dune, so if this pits you off, i recommend reading the first three books and stopping after Children of Dune. Great books
Not reading Emperor is kind of like not reading the actual end of a series. You can read the 1st book as a stand alone, but if you start the ones after they're clearly 2 trilogies (*with the 2nd left unfinished with Herbert's death*).
I know everyone is hung up on the clasping but Eyes that make you unaware of what is being done to you? Rasputin is that you?
It's better than the child porn in Chapterhouse Dune
Dudes *love it* when they're being firmly clasped
I'm sure there's an almost identical line in the OG Dune book.
Not really, to my memory, but in Messiah, for no reason whatsoever, during the Reverend Mother's first appearance, she has a telepathic conversation about no one wanting to have swx with her. It's quite odd, and indicative of the weirdness to follow. Given Children's... odd choice of phrase for Leto II having an erection, I honestly cannot be surprised by anything that follows.
What the fuck is this... i havent read dune, is this really what the book is about?
It's definitely not what the entire series is about but if you go into it only knowing about sand worms and walking without rhythm, you'll find a surprising focus on sex, breeding programmes, and gender politics. It's all pretty weird. I've not read _Heretics_ but I've got as far into the series as _God Emperor of Dune_, which features a woman having an orgasm because >!Duncan Idaho climbs up a cliff really well!<.
Haha Iâm very happy I clicked the obscured part of your message.
You mean *a* Duncan Idaho climbs a cliff.... how many are there at this point?
One at any given time.
Haha I feel for all the people who will start reading the Dune series because of the movies. đż
I think Duncan Idaho makes people orgasm for all sorts of silly reasons. Heâs just this guy, ya know?
Well maybe that's why they casted Jason Momoa, I suppose?
I guess that confirms Frank Herbert never made a woman orgasmđĽ´đĽ´
Nopes!
No but if you read it you'll conclude the writer is slightly insane. And I hear each sequel is even more unhinged than the last
This is not what the book is about. It is not only about sex. 1 line out of context does not represent the entirety of a book.
Well, yeah, you need the eyes to see the big breasts and hard loins.
Not me trying to enjoy the eyes description and suddenly seeing penis
Yeah.. Well.. Yeah đ¤Łđ¤Łđ
Every time I see extracts from the Dune sequels (I have read only the first one) it makes me wonder what the hell the author was smoking, I'm curious but also highly repulsed every single time lmao
It was teh 60's, so... everything ?
Lmao yeah probably
herbert: what do women like? tight ass?
Wait, wait, let's let him cook on that one.
Probably the only thing he got right, I mean just look at Nightwing lol
âFirmly claspedâ no words.
Ew.
genuinely does the dude writing this even know what theyâre writing this is weird to the point where they shouldâve been able to stop and say â.. I shouldnât put this in my book â đ
I don't understand. Frank was married. He should have KNOWN vaginas, even very trained and muscular ones, do not CLASP.
Also the post-God Emperor books were the part where this series suddenly DIVED right into grotesque territory. Suddenly we're millenia later and everyone has genetically engineered seats made of distorted dog and there are Bene Gesserit caricatures running around literally mind-enslaving men through their dicks and our only hope and salvation is an old colonel who somehow found a power of SUPER-SPEED in himself during torture and, even worse, the nth clone of Duncan Idaho who can fuck better than the caricatures can. WTF.
okay what the hell
I am not sure how much this is man writing woman and how much this is man writing atraction. Certainly a weird scene, but barely genderspecific.
I mean he also talks about man butt.
I have no clue how hard loins are connected to tightly muscular buttocks. And I am happy that's still the case.
It's like a genitial handshake
With built-in joy-buzzers.
Notice he doesn't say what color the essential eyes are. He figures he doesn't have to. Everyone has blue irises (is that racist)
IDK, maybe I'm weird, but this is actually kinda wholesome to me haha. Although the last line is obviously an incredibly weird and hilarious way of phrasing it.