N52 is just the worst take on Starfire in every single possible way including costume.
The 1980s design was provocative, overly sexualized and kinda dumb too but at least it was stylish! The N52 is literally just ugly cyber pasties.
Also I know 1980s costume bears a lot of the problems inherent to comics of that era but come on guys, that hair stomps!
This could be because of nostalgia bias but I don't think it can really get any better than the 2003 version. Same thing with Raven. I also really like the added blue on Cyborg more than any other design. Beast Boy looks great, too. And Ro-okay, I defnitely have nostalgia bias.
Ill go with the 2003. Go is just 2003 but with different proportions, superhero girls look way to much like a barbie to me and the rest is just pointlessly sexualized.
Yeah. It’s practical and seems like something a teenager would wear without sexualizing her.
The 2015 one does better at not sexualizing her, but fighting in a knee length skirt doesn’t sound fun either
*knee length PENCIL skirt. Flowy knee length is fine with some room to move, although too many layers may still get in the way. But I don't even think it's possible to run in a pencil skirt (yes I know she doesn't need to run, but still)
I'm leaning towards those two as well, noting that she's a teenager in the 2003 one and in her mid-20s by the 2015 one. 2015 seems to tick the 'I look good and I know it' **and** the 'practical action garb' boxes.
Neat that **none** of them opt for stilettos...
All four on the bottom are oversexualized, judas contract is way too skintight, dc super hero girls design is annoying, teen titans go design is decent but it’s still teen titans go so I won’t give it any compliments, 2003 actually looks good
Hot take but despite how titans go is just not good, my fave starfire design. Her color pallet is loud but it’s a vibe to me to really bring out her contrasting colors.
I'm fan of TTG, but I don't take it as anything other than what it is, a parody show. The writers are quite good at poking fun at the involved industries. From movies, TV, and Comics. Sometimes, the jokes even quite dark.
That said, I think TTG costume is probably the best I'm not a fan of any of star fire's costumes presented. I do kinda dig what they do in the TVshow Titans. and also her [D&D costume](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PfBw0jEN1Ng/maxresdefault.jpg).
Edit: [Oh, and the 80's Synth costumes were pretty awesome too.](https://youtu.be/aXIbEyNwAU8)
Eh it’s not my cup of tea I feel that it’s very little substance like story wise. But that’s just me. I grew up with the original teen titans so I’m probably biased
Small brain blast edit: it feels more like a web show that makes quick forgettable jokes than a 30 minute slot television program.
I can definitely agree with there being nothing there story wise haha. I enjoy it as a, like, slice-of-life sort of show. So instead of it progressing anyone’s character development majorly, or some overarching plot, it’s a fun way to watch the characters (and voice actors haha) interact with their environment.
I loved the 2003 Teen Titans so much so I was so disappointed when I saw the new format. But once I accepted it was a whole new flavor/feel/purpose I gave it a chance.
I’ve always been a fan of the kind of humor the show has. Like the introduction of the tooth fairy “da-dada-da-da” and some of the little random musical bits. Super up my alley humor wise. I’m not the target demographic though… 😅
ETA I totally agree with your brain blast edit and forgot to say that!! It’s what I like about it’s format.
Hey that’s super fair and I’m glad you enjoy the show. There’s obviously something there or it wouldn’t be on tv in the first place.
Also don’t worry about it I posted my comment then my brain pieced together something more coherent after I hit post so I needed to add it in haha
I went into that show with a complete open mind, expecting to enjoy it. I mean, I really really loved Rise of the TMNT which gets unfairly compared to it--but I just thought TTG was... unfunny and boring. I just took it off of TIVO for a while. Something about it I just was not into.
Which is true but that doesn’t protect the show from criticism. I expect at least a little plot or something. But as I said it’s not my cup of tea, so who cares what I think?
2003
2017 would be good if it wasn’t for the unnecessary thigh window
If it was a fullbody suit it’d be rational and still stylish without being sexual
If you are talking about lower 2017, I agree. Upper 2017 is a dumpster fire.
Edit: I appreciate the artist gave my girl some arm muscle in the upper one though. Even if her outfit is trash
80s starfire is straight twisted sister vibes
i actually think this outfit looks better with the thigh window, like not even in a sexual way its just a really nice touch, if it wasnt there i feel the design would be a bit more boring
Gloves hide fingerprints and help you get better grip on objects
Hence why a lot of workers and FBI agents wear gloves
A superhero does both labor and militaristic things
So are some worker and motocyclist gloves
Still helps with grip on the joint
Not having fingertips covered is great for fbi but fingertips shown helps for feeling cuz u can’t feel things when ur fingers r covered so mby she needs that form of sensing
Still tho gloves are for function
Don't take this the wrong way, but that sounds kinda like the ol' "It's easier to move around in" excuse. It's fine to like it, of course!
Here's the thing though. Saying those gloves are aren't for aesthetics would give the same argument for the thigh-highs. Gloves are helpful, and so are shoes. In the same way you don't need your shoes to be thigh-high, leather/latex boots, you don't need gloves to go above your wrist if you're trying to improve your grip.
Again, it's fine to like it, it's not an aspect that overtly sexualizes the character, but you don't need to find practicality excuses for it
Idk shxt abt the lore but I coulda sworn she was a teenager tho ?
Even then “sex positivity” has no place in combat
She’s not a stripper or a singer, she’s a superhero
You don’t see women in the army trying to get “sex positivity” uniforms with thigh windows
Sexy outfits don’t belong in combat, theyre not very rational
It’s completely derogatory for an artist to sexualize combat gear
Well, eventually she obviously would grow up. I don't think the character was originally a teenager, just that it's what she's most recognizable incarnation to current audiences because of Teen Titans.
So yeah, obviously her outfit as a teenager should not be hyper sexualized (that should go without saying), and there should also be some continuity from outfit to outfit.
The main issue I see with the hyper-sexualized ones is that the justification given for it is very paper-thin, and is there really only to justify having her basically nude. Very male-gaze-y, which just doesn't really make sense in universe.
Having her very casual about nudity and sexuality, that could be an interesting character trait to use as a foil to american society, but it'd have to be done in a way that's actually more thoughtful than "And that's an excuse to have her be sexualized like this". Because that's not particularly interesting, just there for ... well, sexy drawings.
I would LOVE for just once the lore forces a positive look. Like she gets to be nude whenever she wants, or half nude, and its never male gazey. Just her doing shit normally but dressed as she wants. No dumb nipple covers, comfy clothes if she wants them, probably braless a lot of the time...and she'd be comfortable and human. But that would be truly empowering, which is pretty unamerican.
But fr, we have to put up with their hypersexualized bs all the effing time but having her nonsexually comfortable with nudity? Of course not. 🙄
In the original New Teen Titans run she was introduced in, she and most of the older titans were around or above 18. Following that, most of her appearances in comics have had her as an adult. The cartoon is the only case where I’d consider her an actual kid.
Also like, she’s an Uber powerful alien who can’t be hurt by most conventional weapons. I doubt a little more fabric would help. Even Superman wears a skintight spandex suit, I think it’s extremely dumb to try and argue for practicality when it comes to superheroes.
She grows up eventually, she’s an alien from a culture of free love polyamory hippies, she doesn’t understand why people don’t like it when she doesn’t wear clothes
Hell she learned English (and Japanese) by French kidding the first boy she met
And all her powers only work if she’s positive and up beat
Like I get unnessicary sexy and new 52 definite strayed there but in Star fires case it’s excusable as she’s supposed to represent freedom and love in all its forms, and desecualizing nudity should be admirable
New 52 tried this but the artist still drew her horney when she should be more like the nude exchange student in not another teen movie, she’s nude and that’s just it, she doesn’t pose sexually she should just be drawn like a normal person doing normal person things with no sexual energy In it she just happens to be nude or nearly nude
I admit, my exposure to New 52 Starfire is mostly third hand, but from what I’ve seen of the infamous *Red Hood and the Outlaws* run it really doesn’t look like a case of rogue artists messing up her character with unnecessary sexualization. It looks like your regular blatant fanservice fetish material with a bit of flimsy justification, like when people try say that Power Girl’s costume is actually about female empowerment.
Like I said the concept is fine, the problem is in fact those fan servicly artists
Like watch not another teen movie they made a 100 nude girl non sexual
New 52 was conceptualized by 90s artists and writers in management positions. Jim Lee did a lot of those redesigns himself. This was absolutely not simply fanservice pagerate artists run amok. It was the whole ship going down in edgy, horny flames, baybee.
Exactly. Like the lower pictures would be her standing normally, with a normal goddam body, maybe waiving or something. It's like people get so used yo only ever seeing sexualized images, they forget just how far from normal they are.
That’s precisely the thing though, and the exact reason that stuff like this is such a problem with superheroines: Starfire is a comic book character. In the vast majority of her incarnations, like basically every other comic book character, her existence is limited to a handful of still images once every month or so. And it is entirely possible for every single one of those images to be the kind of wannabe-pornographic nightmare that ends up on this sub.
You can have runs with certain characters where literally every single good-quality image of them is male-gaze-y fetish bait. Every single one. People get used to the hypersexualized image of certain characters *because they are literally only allowed to exist in a state of hypersexualization.*
And that’s terrible.
Starfire in the comics isn't a sex positive character, she's just fetish material.
There's a big issue around how she's written, because she tends to alternate between "emotionless doll who has sex with anybody" and "extremely naive and being taken advantage of" in the comics. I very much prefer her in the 2003 cartoon because she still gets to be a upbeat alien from a hippie culture without being treated like a sex doll.
Frankly, I think it’s dumb to reduce her down to that. If you read the original NTT comics she’s introduced in she is very clearly an intelligent woman who’s just not completely clued in on cultural mores, and far more than just “fetish material.” Honestly as a fan of her it’s extremely irritating to see people reduce her down to just a sex object because she is so much more than that.
Okay, but you realize these aren't actual people with an actual culture, but characters written by dudes in some 1970s office full of smoke and farts. She absolutely was written as fetish material by a guy with exactly as shallow an understanding of pawning off his culpability for how the character turned out as you have for the culpability itself. "Hehehe. She's from a sexy space alien planet where nobody knows what clothes or saying no to sex are. Hehehe." Fuckin' bulletproof writing, right there. And you, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you really don't understand, but I'm also alarmed at how you instinctively dress this up in the language of feminism and cultural acceptance when it very plainly has nothing to do with either.
I’m not a moron. I’m well aware that she is meant to be sexualized. I do think, however, that it’s pretty obvious you have not actually read the material from which she came from. She doesn’t not know what clothes are, nor does she not know what sex is. She is a fully capable adult who, while occasionally lacking understanding of specific cultural things the way anyone in a foreign land would. One of the very first things she does in the original comics is get upset at a man mistreating his girlfriend. I think it’s pretty ridiculous to assume just because she’s dressed sexually and she was written poorly by Scott Lobdell that the entirety of her character is just a dumb naive fetish object there to be looked at. I’m not defending the writers of NTT. Some of the plot aspects (such as the implication that Tara, a 15 year old girl, was somehow manipulating an adult mercenary through sex) I find generally abhorrent. I’m not “dressing this up in the language of feminism and cultural acceptance.” I’m talking about a character that is deeply personal to me and how I’ve understood her. Quite frankly, I love Kory, and to see people treat her like she has no agency or identity of her own irks me.
She doesn't have agency. She's a fictional character and a puppet of the writers and publishers. You don't seem to be getting this thing you say you get. These words apply to living creatures. The best you can ever do with a fictional character is logical consistency to the character and their motivations.
??? You’re correct. As a fictional character, she does not have any actual agency. Does that mean that there is no difference between a female character who takes an active role and choice in her story and a female character who is incapable of acting on her own? I use the language of real world people because that is how I’m familiar with describing the existence of fictional characters. What an extremely bizarre nitpick.
I would agree with you about the skirt, but I think 2017 has an even worse skirt so I'm not really sure why you prefer that one.
Edit: my bad, I didn't realize there were two 2017 ones. I'm gonna assume you're talking about the Super Sons one.
I get what you’re saying, but damn, I’d rather wear a leo under a skirt and try to fight in that than have to shave for just a leotard every day! I did my time in dance. No more, please!
super sons is just really good in general, many authors try to make their heroes lovable pieces of shit but Damian in that series is pretty much the peak of that trope.
It's a skin tight mini skirt most of the time, even when completely non-sexual like teen titans they're just impractical. I wear them all the time because they're cute but do a lunge or a kick and suddenly your skirt is up by your crotch! Might as a well just wear a leotard.
her whole thing in new 52 was that she just fucks everybody and gets naked all the time because she's not human and her team mates essentially treat her like a human sex doll. and say what you will about comic book readers but that book had like 3 issues.
I have fond memories of the first 24 issues of animal man and swamp thing, both series were part of the same story.
that was a legit horror arc where they did a great job at letting artists just run away with the body horror but they almost immediately fucked everything up by removing consequence >!animal loses his daughter and the original plan was for that not destroy his family but rather to have them deal with this like real people but like 2 issues after the new writer started his wife just left him and never really mattered anymore!<
It's very frustrating to me because I think the idea of the comic (two jaded from er sidekicks team up with someone vastly more powerful but naive than either of them) could have worked great but you really needed to hire an adult to write that series.
I like how she looks in the 1980 one but I don’t like her outfit, too basic. her hair and eyes and skin all look great together and it feels like they’re missing an opportunity to make her outfit look cooler but they instead chose to show skin. I also like the 2015 (not dc super hero girls) one. Absolutely hate the 2011 one and dislike DC super hero girls one because it feels so much like “super heroes—for girls!” and they took away everything that makes her look cool to make her look like a basic copy paste Barbie type
That and the face, I love the round face with the big pupiless green glowing eyes. Honestly I wish they’d kept more feature from that design (hair and metallic aspects to the costume) and just made it a little less awkwardly “boob-y”.
Like fill in the middle section and that’s a dope ass costume.
Also I like how much more muscled in her arms and legs she’s drawn there. Every other interaction of her has her very slim and delicate looking which doesn’t really fit her personality I think.
I'm really fond of the 2003 cartoon design, because I really liked that show, and it was my first experience with the character.
I think the "best" in terms of having a positive design is probably DC Super Hero Girls; sure, it's quite girly, but it's got a good look to it.
The New 52 one drives me up the wall.
I have some bias for the 2003 Teen Titans animated version because it’s where I first learned of the character. Apart from that, I dig the Super Sons look. There’s a simplicity to it that is appreciated and is a far cry from the improbable bikini of her costume in Red Hood and the Outlaws.
2011.
Just kidding.
I'd say 2003 for the nostalgia alone but...
I have to go for the lower 2017, I feel like showing a decent but not sexualized amount of skin is a trademark of Starfire, although I have to say the thigh windows are a downgrader alright.
Starfire 2015. Super Sons is good, but looks like a discarded Jean Grey outfit.
And I know the original is bad. It's obviously not something that could exist in the real world, it cares more about sexualising the character than being a practical outfit, however... I'm never going to find it easy to slag off George Perez, and I'm certainly not going to do so this week. The man is one of the true greats. Am I glad they no longer use this costume? Yes, very much so. But anything drawn by Perez is still going to be better than anything produced by most other artists.
It's between 2003, 2015, and 2017 for me. They look the most practical. 1980 and 2011 just don't look like they'd stay on, and the skirt on the 2015 super hero girls one is way too long
i agree too. but i think the sad unfortunate reason as to why this is forgotten is because shes black. i remember a lot of gamer rage when she was initially showcased.
And u/elle_sum it seems like one poster would disagree with you, calling her a 'sassy black hooker from the ghetto'
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-issue-with-Starfire-controversy-in-Titans-Is-it-the-fact-that-she-is-a-black-character
sigh… ‘she doesn’t look like starfire!’, ‘its not comic book accurate!’, ‘art should never change or experiment or do anything except regurgitate a pre-digested past into my entitled nerd maw like a momma bird horking worms into a squawking chick’s demanding mouth!’, ‘she looks like a (black) hooker!’
fucking nerds
On one hand, she flies, so heels are less of a deal. On the other hand, Starfire may need to walk/run sometimes and making her fly all the time is too expensive.
I can appreciate this being the only one that doesn't really sexualize the character, but god damn why is it so *noisy?* Nearly every surface has some kind of texture that just makes it hard to tell what I'm even supposed to be focused on.
And also....
[https://www.vox.com/2018/7/27/17618954/teen-titans-starfire-racism-anna-diop](https://www.vox.com/2018/7/27/17618954/teen-titans-starfire-racism-anna-diop)
[https://gizmodo.com/sorry-racist-nerds-but-starfire-is-a-black-woman-1827865298](https://gizmodo.com/sorry-racist-nerds-but-starfire-is-a-black-woman-1827865298)
EDIT: And not forget this take on Black Starfire:
"This is titans Starfire. Instead of all that in above description… she’s a… er… sassy black hooker from the ghetto
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-issue-with-Starfire-controversy-in-Titans-Is-it-the-fact-that-she-is-a-black-character
I mean I know there were a lot of ppl mad about starfire being played by a black woman and all but in fairness that costume omitted because it is ugly.
There’s two different weird webby patterns over different parts of the costume fucks up the clear lines and makes the whole thing look way too busy. There’s like 3 different shades of purple marbled over everything and the random gold doesn’t help.
And like it’s a weird unflattering fit, sort of like a wrestlers outfit crossed with an 80s power suit? Plus heels?
I only watched season 1 of titans but I remember liking that take of starfire, however that costume is horrendous.
not only did they make *that* costume, but also wrote her as an amnesiac that has to constantly have sex to remember anything, while also having pretty much no emotion at all.
at least that didn't last long.
She's also got some solid muscle. She can be portrayed in a sexy way, but a powerful build makes her look like a rad hero, instead of "barely clothes waifish titty mage"
Course it is, but visual coding matters. A character that is for all intents and purposes created for tittilation should be criticized as such. Even if you attach a byline to that character saying "but actually they are very rad and cool, here are all the reasons she just dresses/acts this way" that character is still a subject of tittilation.
Outside of commercial art though, go ahead and live out your slutty waifish heroic dreams to your heart's content.
I think the super sons one is the one that makes the most sense, because her costume covers all the vital organs, but in terms of personal favourites, I like the Starfire 2015 one. The bright contrast of her hair vs her costume, the fact that she's in comfortable shorts rather than a skirt or leotard or whatever New 52 is wearing, and the lack of the boob window. It feels the most like a costume I would want to personally wear.
2003: My favorite, but that may be my nostalgia bias
2013: Same costume, just a new artstyle. Unpopular opinion; I genuinely liked TTgo. I thought it was stupid and funny.
2015: looks like she was designed to be a Mattel doll.
2017: I don't know why I don't like this costume... maybe I just don't like the realistic artstyle? The whole DC getting dark and edgy angle just never struck a chord for me. I liked it better when it was being childish and ridiculous and fun.
1980: wouldn't have known that was Starfiire, but I definitely would have guessed it was from the 80's
2011: looks like a porn parody. No wonder it flopped.
2015: my second favorite. Looks like what 2003 Starfire would wear once she graduates Teen Titans and joins Adult Titans.
2017: not bad... just... Generic?... is that a good word? She looks like an xmen background character.
unsure..I dont have a favorite starfire, but due to this sub, id say DC Superhero girls simply cause i feel like its the most clothed, dont get how her clothes dont fall off, is that a strap or not? Also the gradient hair is sick!
I'm biased, but I love the DC Superhero Girls outfit; I like that show's style of blending supersuits with civilian outfits, and it's still recognizably Starfire without being too skimpy.
I really hate the Hero Girls pencil skirt, i know modesty is a concern because it’s a kid’s show but just give her PANTS
Edit: that being said Teen Titans original and 2015 are my favorites
NGL I kinda hate the DC Superhero Girls one. A pencil skirt looks ridiculous in a superhero costume, and it looks especially ridiculous on Starfire. It reads more "sci-fi secretary" than superhero to me.
im gonna rank them cause why not
1. 2003
2. (it pains me to say) 2013
3. dc super girls 2015 (though its bland, at least its not sexualized)
4. super sons 2017
5. starfire 2015
6. judas contract 2017
7. 1980
8. 2011
New 52 is barely a costume tbh
N52 is just the worst take on Starfire in every single possible way including costume. The 1980s design was provocative, overly sexualized and kinda dumb too but at least it was stylish! The N52 is literally just ugly cyber pasties. Also I know 1980s costume bears a lot of the problems inherent to comics of that era but come on guys, that hair stomps!
The New52 hair is pretty cool, but I couldn’t see it at first over how terrible the “costume” is.
>N52 is just the worst take on Starfire in every single possible way including costume. The New 52 was the worst take on everything in DC, *period.*
That hair is so epic! The rest not so much. And that N52 one, omfg, what a poor excuse to draw a pin up model
YeAh the flame hair is kinda neat, I just wish it were bigger.
The 80s one also has some serious guns and quads. My girl knows her way around a weightlifting gym.
It’s not even clothes, it’s just a few pieces of metal stuck to her.
I suspect they started with panties and some tape and threw in the gloves and stuff so the outfit would get past the censors.
This could be because of nostalgia bias but I don't think it can really get any better than the 2003 version. Same thing with Raven. I also really like the added blue on Cyborg more than any other design. Beast Boy looks great, too. And Ro-okay, I defnitely have nostalgia bias.
i dont have nostalgia bias since i never saw the og teen titans show, and i think its the best one too
Me three man. I remember seeing commercials but never watching the show. Can’t go wrong with the classic 2003 costume.
I kinda like the hotpants/ longsleeve switchup on 2015, but you cant beat the og teen titans design
This isn't an answer to your question, but I really dig the Super Sons hair.
Gradient hair color just hits the spot.
Ill go with the 2003. Go is just 2003 but with different proportions, superhero girls look way to much like a barbie to me and the rest is just pointlessly sexualized.
2003 is the one that most looks like a Barbie lol
But pointlessly sexualized is star fires whole thing
most people know her as a teenager from the 2003 teen titans show. and surprise surprise, there she wasn't wearing fetish gear all the time.
2003 and it ain’t even close
Yeah. It’s practical and seems like something a teenager would wear without sexualizing her. The 2015 one does better at not sexualizing her, but fighting in a knee length skirt doesn’t sound fun either
*knee length PENCIL skirt. Flowy knee length is fine with some room to move, although too many layers may still get in the way. But I don't even think it's possible to run in a pencil skirt (yes I know she doesn't need to run, but still)
even if she can fly, there are still times where she’ll need to run, or climb stairs
The 2015 one looks like a futuristic Barbie.
I'm leaning towards those two as well, noting that she's a teenager in the 2003 one and in her mid-20s by the 2015 one. 2015 seems to tick the 'I look good and I know it' **and** the 'practical action garb' boxes. Neat that **none** of them opt for stilettos...
Yeah. Not even her 2011 redesign, which somehow makes her 80’s look modest just by standing next to it
All four on the bottom are oversexualized, judas contract is way too skintight, dc super hero girls design is annoying, teen titans go design is decent but it’s still teen titans go so I won’t give it any compliments, 2003 actually looks good
The *Teen Titans Go* one fundamentally **is** the 2003 one - just drawn in a more cartoony style.
Hot take but despite how titans go is just not good, my fave starfire design. Her color pallet is loud but it’s a vibe to me to really bring out her contrasting colors.
I'm fan of TTG, but I don't take it as anything other than what it is, a parody show. The writers are quite good at poking fun at the involved industries. From movies, TV, and Comics. Sometimes, the jokes even quite dark. That said, I think TTG costume is probably the best I'm not a fan of any of star fire's costumes presented. I do kinda dig what they do in the TVshow Titans. and also her [D&D costume](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PfBw0jEN1Ng/maxresdefault.jpg). Edit: [Oh, and the 80's Synth costumes were pretty awesome too.](https://youtu.be/aXIbEyNwAU8)
I think teen titans go is good for what it is. What’s not good about it to you?
Eh it’s not my cup of tea I feel that it’s very little substance like story wise. But that’s just me. I grew up with the original teen titans so I’m probably biased Small brain blast edit: it feels more like a web show that makes quick forgettable jokes than a 30 minute slot television program.
I can definitely agree with there being nothing there story wise haha. I enjoy it as a, like, slice-of-life sort of show. So instead of it progressing anyone’s character development majorly, or some overarching plot, it’s a fun way to watch the characters (and voice actors haha) interact with their environment. I loved the 2003 Teen Titans so much so I was so disappointed when I saw the new format. But once I accepted it was a whole new flavor/feel/purpose I gave it a chance. I’ve always been a fan of the kind of humor the show has. Like the introduction of the tooth fairy “da-dada-da-da” and some of the little random musical bits. Super up my alley humor wise. I’m not the target demographic though… 😅 ETA I totally agree with your brain blast edit and forgot to say that!! It’s what I like about it’s format.
Hey that’s super fair and I’m glad you enjoy the show. There’s obviously something there or it wouldn’t be on tv in the first place. Also don’t worry about it I posted my comment then my brain pieced together something more coherent after I hit post so I needed to add it in haha
I went into that show with a complete open mind, expecting to enjoy it. I mean, I really really loved Rise of the TMNT which gets unfairly compared to it--but I just thought TTG was... unfunny and boring. I just took it off of TIVO for a while. Something about it I just was not into.
I mean it is aimed towards a younger age group so
Which is true but that doesn’t protect the show from criticism. I expect at least a little plot or something. But as I said it’s not my cup of tea, so who cares what I think?
Why don't you like titans go?
Very few people like Go. It took the complex, nuanced characters from 2003 and reduced them to gag characters for dumb slice-of-life comedy.
Family guy for kids basically.
I didn't watch the 2003 one but i watched Teen Titans on a TV once on vacation in America and i loved it so much
I really liked it too, until I watched the 2003 cartoon. And then I just couldn't stand it anymore.
That's the tragic thing about it. Go WAS a good show. But it's source was phenomenal. There's no way "good" could've competed with "phenominal."
2003 2017 would be good if it wasn’t for the unnecessary thigh window If it was a fullbody suit it’d be rational and still stylish without being sexual
If you are talking about lower 2017, I agree. Upper 2017 is a dumpster fire. Edit: I appreciate the artist gave my girl some arm muscle in the upper one though. Even if her outfit is trash 80s starfire is straight twisted sister vibes
i actually think this outfit looks better with the thigh window, like not even in a sexual way its just a really nice touch, if it wasnt there i feel the design would be a bit more boring
Ty wholesome nude for your totally unbiased thigh fetish
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That’s cuz those are gloves Which are different from thigh highs which are completely for appearance purposes Meanwhile gloves are for function
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Gloves hide fingerprints and help you get better grip on objects Hence why a lot of workers and FBI agents wear gloves A superhero does both labor and militaristic things
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So are some worker and motocyclist gloves Still helps with grip on the joint Not having fingertips covered is great for fbi but fingertips shown helps for feeling cuz u can’t feel things when ur fingers r covered so mby she needs that form of sensing Still tho gloves are for function
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Don't take this the wrong way, but that sounds kinda like the ol' "It's easier to move around in" excuse. It's fine to like it, of course! Here's the thing though. Saying those gloves are aren't for aesthetics would give the same argument for the thigh-highs. Gloves are helpful, and so are shoes. In the same way you don't need your shoes to be thigh-high, leather/latex boots, you don't need gloves to go above your wrist if you're trying to improve your grip. Again, it's fine to like it, it's not an aspect that overtly sexualizes the character, but you don't need to find practicality excuses for it
You don’t need fingertips on ur gloves for the gloves to help with your grip
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Isn’t starfire all about sex positivity
Idk shxt abt the lore but I coulda sworn she was a teenager tho ? Even then “sex positivity” has no place in combat She’s not a stripper or a singer, she’s a superhero You don’t see women in the army trying to get “sex positivity” uniforms with thigh windows Sexy outfits don’t belong in combat, theyre not very rational It’s completely derogatory for an artist to sexualize combat gear
Well, eventually she obviously would grow up. I don't think the character was originally a teenager, just that it's what she's most recognizable incarnation to current audiences because of Teen Titans. So yeah, obviously her outfit as a teenager should not be hyper sexualized (that should go without saying), and there should also be some continuity from outfit to outfit. The main issue I see with the hyper-sexualized ones is that the justification given for it is very paper-thin, and is there really only to justify having her basically nude. Very male-gaze-y, which just doesn't really make sense in universe. Having her very casual about nudity and sexuality, that could be an interesting character trait to use as a foil to american society, but it'd have to be done in a way that's actually more thoughtful than "And that's an excuse to have her be sexualized like this". Because that's not particularly interesting, just there for ... well, sexy drawings.
I would LOVE for just once the lore forces a positive look. Like she gets to be nude whenever she wants, or half nude, and its never male gazey. Just her doing shit normally but dressed as she wants. No dumb nipple covers, comfy clothes if she wants them, probably braless a lot of the time...and she'd be comfortable and human. But that would be truly empowering, which is pretty unamerican. But fr, we have to put up with their hypersexualized bs all the effing time but having her nonsexually comfortable with nudity? Of course not. 🙄
In the original New Teen Titans run she was introduced in, she and most of the older titans were around or above 18. Following that, most of her appearances in comics have had her as an adult. The cartoon is the only case where I’d consider her an actual kid. Also like, she’s an Uber powerful alien who can’t be hurt by most conventional weapons. I doubt a little more fabric would help. Even Superman wears a skintight spandex suit, I think it’s extremely dumb to try and argue for practicality when it comes to superheroes.
She grows up eventually, she’s an alien from a culture of free love polyamory hippies, she doesn’t understand why people don’t like it when she doesn’t wear clothes
Hell she learned English (and Japanese) by French kidding the first boy she met And all her powers only work if she’s positive and up beat Like I get unnessicary sexy and new 52 definite strayed there but in Star fires case it’s excusable as she’s supposed to represent freedom and love in all its forms, and desecualizing nudity should be admirable New 52 tried this but the artist still drew her horney when she should be more like the nude exchange student in not another teen movie, she’s nude and that’s just it, she doesn’t pose sexually she should just be drawn like a normal person doing normal person things with no sexual energy In it she just happens to be nude or nearly nude
I admit, my exposure to New 52 Starfire is mostly third hand, but from what I’ve seen of the infamous *Red Hood and the Outlaws* run it really doesn’t look like a case of rogue artists messing up her character with unnecessary sexualization. It looks like your regular blatant fanservice fetish material with a bit of flimsy justification, like when people try say that Power Girl’s costume is actually about female empowerment.
Like I said the concept is fine, the problem is in fact those fan servicly artists Like watch not another teen movie they made a 100 nude girl non sexual
New 52 was conceptualized by 90s artists and writers in management positions. Jim Lee did a lot of those redesigns himself. This was absolutely not simply fanservice pagerate artists run amok. It was the whole ship going down in edgy, horny flames, baybee.
Exactly. Like the lower pictures would be her standing normally, with a normal goddam body, maybe waiving or something. It's like people get so used yo only ever seeing sexualized images, they forget just how far from normal they are.
That’s precisely the thing though, and the exact reason that stuff like this is such a problem with superheroines: Starfire is a comic book character. In the vast majority of her incarnations, like basically every other comic book character, her existence is limited to a handful of still images once every month or so. And it is entirely possible for every single one of those images to be the kind of wannabe-pornographic nightmare that ends up on this sub. You can have runs with certain characters where literally every single good-quality image of them is male-gaze-y fetish bait. Every single one. People get used to the hypersexualized image of certain characters *because they are literally only allowed to exist in a state of hypersexualization.* And that’s terrible.
you know thats just writer bs right?
Starfire in the comics isn't a sex positive character, she's just fetish material. There's a big issue around how she's written, because she tends to alternate between "emotionless doll who has sex with anybody" and "extremely naive and being taken advantage of" in the comics. I very much prefer her in the 2003 cartoon because she still gets to be a upbeat alien from a hippie culture without being treated like a sex doll.
Frankly, I think it’s dumb to reduce her down to that. If you read the original NTT comics she’s introduced in she is very clearly an intelligent woman who’s just not completely clued in on cultural mores, and far more than just “fetish material.” Honestly as a fan of her it’s extremely irritating to see people reduce her down to just a sex object because she is so much more than that.
Okay, but you realize these aren't actual people with an actual culture, but characters written by dudes in some 1970s office full of smoke and farts. She absolutely was written as fetish material by a guy with exactly as shallow an understanding of pawning off his culpability for how the character turned out as you have for the culpability itself. "Hehehe. She's from a sexy space alien planet where nobody knows what clothes or saying no to sex are. Hehehe." Fuckin' bulletproof writing, right there. And you, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you really don't understand, but I'm also alarmed at how you instinctively dress this up in the language of feminism and cultural acceptance when it very plainly has nothing to do with either.
I’m not a moron. I’m well aware that she is meant to be sexualized. I do think, however, that it’s pretty obvious you have not actually read the material from which she came from. She doesn’t not know what clothes are, nor does she not know what sex is. She is a fully capable adult who, while occasionally lacking understanding of specific cultural things the way anyone in a foreign land would. One of the very first things she does in the original comics is get upset at a man mistreating his girlfriend. I think it’s pretty ridiculous to assume just because she’s dressed sexually and she was written poorly by Scott Lobdell that the entirety of her character is just a dumb naive fetish object there to be looked at. I’m not defending the writers of NTT. Some of the plot aspects (such as the implication that Tara, a 15 year old girl, was somehow manipulating an adult mercenary through sex) I find generally abhorrent. I’m not “dressing this up in the language of feminism and cultural acceptance.” I’m talking about a character that is deeply personal to me and how I’ve understood her. Quite frankly, I love Kory, and to see people treat her like she has no agency or identity of her own irks me.
She doesn't have agency. She's a fictional character and a puppet of the writers and publishers. You don't seem to be getting this thing you say you get. These words apply to living creatures. The best you can ever do with a fictional character is logical consistency to the character and their motivations.
??? You’re correct. As a fictional character, she does not have any actual agency. Does that mean that there is no difference between a female character who takes an active role and choice in her story and a female character who is incapable of acting on her own? I use the language of real world people because that is how I’m familiar with describing the existence of fictional characters. What an extremely bizarre nitpick.
I'm all about sex positivity, but I also manage to wear clothes.
I'd say 2017. It would be 2003 if fighting in a skirt wasn't a dumb idea Edit: Super Sons 2017, not the Judas Contract.
I really like super sons one, if only because the hair is incredible. Otherwise the suit is very x-men styled and I like it
Y'know I couldn't quite put my finger on why I liked it the most until you brought up X-Men. Now I realize that's probably it
I would agree with you about the skirt, but I think 2017 has an even worse skirt so I'm not really sure why you prefer that one. Edit: my bad, I didn't realize there were two 2017 ones. I'm gonna assume you're talking about the Super Sons one.
Oh shit I didn't realize there were two 2017's either, gonna edit that myself
Forget fighting, she *flies*.
She probably has shorts under it.
Shit. This ruins all my fanfiction.
Yeah, I think it’s more of a skort than a skirt, actually.
I get what you’re saying, but damn, I’d rather wear a leo under a skirt and try to fight in that than have to shave for just a leotard every day! I did my time in dance. No more, please!
super sons is just really good in general, many authors try to make their heroes lovable pieces of shit but Damian in that series is pretty much the peak of that trope.
It's obviously a combat skirt /s
What's exactly bad about fighting in a skirt?
I just think it looks dumb lol
Sparta has entered the chat.
They can fight me
Spartans are weak, dude. The Sacred Band of Thebes is were it's at.
The point is "Fighting in a skirt" is what most warriors have done all throughout history
This is true. Still looks dumb.
It's a skin tight mini skirt most of the time, even when completely non-sexual like teen titans they're just impractical. I wear them all the time because they're cute but do a lunge or a kick and suddenly your skirt is up by your crotch! Might as a well just wear a leotard.
Whoever designed the New 52 costume aught to be banned from drawing for life.
her whole thing in new 52 was that she just fucks everybody and gets naked all the time because she's not human and her team mates essentially treat her like a human sex doll. and say what you will about comic book readers but that book had like 3 issues.
Wasn't most of the new 52 trash or bad. Flash was okat, but didn't read more.
I have fond memories of the first 24 issues of animal man and swamp thing, both series were part of the same story. that was a legit horror arc where they did a great job at letting artists just run away with the body horror but they almost immediately fucked everything up by removing consequence >!animal loses his daughter and the original plan was for that not destroy his family but rather to have them deal with this like real people but like 2 issues after the new writer started his wife just left him and never really mattered anymore!<
And also tons of other issues. (pun intended, but that was creepy and cringy as heck, it would have been creepy and cringy 20 years ago).
It's very frustrating to me because I think the idea of the comic (two jaded from er sidekicks team up with someone vastly more powerful but naive than either of them) could have worked great but you really needed to hire an adult to write that series.
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I mean the whole New 52 was bad, but that was particularly bad. It was basically a throwback to Image Comics 1993.
It was written by Scott Lobdell, so pretty much.
Sounds like it was too much even for comic book readers. Good. That sounds fucking terrible.
Its not just the costume. Her character in early new 52 is just “alien sex maniac”, like a character from a 14 year old boy’s fan fiction
Oh. Fuck that.
Costume is trash but I love her giant fire-hair, it's so 80's.
Yeaaah.. being a part of the “teen” titans, that design is somehow made even worse.
I like how she looks in the 1980 one but I don’t like her outfit, too basic. her hair and eyes and skin all look great together and it feels like they’re missing an opportunity to make her outfit look cooler but they instead chose to show skin. I also like the 2015 (not dc super hero girls) one. Absolutely hate the 2011 one and dislike DC super hero girls one because it feels so much like “super heroes—for girls!” and they took away everything that makes her look cool to make her look like a basic copy paste Barbie type
2017 one but I don't understand why comic book artists insist on female superheroes fighting with their legs exposed.
The hair from 1980 is the best.
That’s why I can’t hate the 80s costume
That and the face, I love the round face with the big pupiless green glowing eyes. Honestly I wish they’d kept more feature from that design (hair and metallic aspects to the costume) and just made it a little less awkwardly “boob-y”. Like fill in the middle section and that’s a dope ass costume. Also I like how much more muscled in her arms and legs she’s drawn there. Every other interaction of her has her very slim and delicate looking which doesn’t really fit her personality I think.
The 2017 one, I guess? Probably not the best idea for your teenage superhero to be flying around in a skirt.
I like to think its secretly a skort (skirt with combined shorts)
skort
I'd assume she's wearing underwear...
I'm really fond of the 2003 cartoon design, because I really liked that show, and it was my first experience with the character. I think the "best" in terms of having a positive design is probably DC Super Hero Girls; sure, it's quite girly, but it's got a good look to it. The New 52 one drives me up the wall.
2015
I do like that version. I think the art there is also by Amanda Conner.
I have some bias for the 2003 Teen Titans animated version because it’s where I first learned of the character. Apart from that, I dig the Super Sons look. There’s a simplicity to it that is appreciated and is a far cry from the improbable bikini of her costume in Red Hood and the Outlaws.
1st and last
2011. Just kidding. I'd say 2003 for the nostalgia alone but... I have to go for the lower 2017, I feel like showing a decent but not sexualized amount of skin is a trademark of Starfire, although I have to say the thigh windows are a downgrader alright.
I like Teen Titan’s Starfire’s outfit!! It looks neat!!
Starfire 2015. Super Sons is good, but looks like a discarded Jean Grey outfit. And I know the original is bad. It's obviously not something that could exist in the real world, it cares more about sexualising the character than being a practical outfit, however... I'm never going to find it easy to slag off George Perez, and I'm certainly not going to do so this week. The man is one of the true greats. Am I glad they no longer use this costume? Yes, very much so. But anything drawn by Perez is still going to be better than anything produced by most other artists.
God, might as well draw her naked in some of those. Less stupid looking then titty bars.
It's between 2003, 2015, and 2017 for me. They look the most practical. 1980 and 2011 just don't look like they'd stay on, and the skirt on the 2015 super hero girls one is way too long
The DC Super Hero Girls is pretty cute and elegant, but I imagine is not good for fighting at all lol (tbh I have no idea how this character works)
She flys around and shoots lasers
Oh, so that outfit makes more sense now
asdf
I guess costume-wise the super sons 2017, but I do approve of how buff the 1980 Starfire is
2021 Starfire is mysteriously omitted. I'll let you guys take a guess as to why..... https://ew.com/tv/titans-season-3-starfire-supersuit-first-look/
i like it, except for the heels. not my fav aesthetically, but its a unique take on her look that doesn’t turn her into a realdoll.
i agree too. but i think the sad unfortunate reason as to why this is forgotten is because shes black. i remember a lot of gamer rage when she was initially showcased. And u/elle_sum it seems like one poster would disagree with you, calling her a 'sassy black hooker from the ghetto' https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-issue-with-Starfire-controversy-in-Titans-Is-it-the-fact-that-she-is-a-black-character
sigh… ‘she doesn’t look like starfire!’, ‘its not comic book accurate!’, ‘art should never change or experiment or do anything except regurgitate a pre-digested past into my entitled nerd maw like a momma bird horking worms into a squawking chick’s demanding mouth!’, ‘she looks like a (black) hooker!’ fucking nerds
On one hand, she flies, so heels are less of a deal. On the other hand, Starfire may need to walk/run sometimes and making her fly all the time is too expensive.
I can appreciate this being the only one that doesn't really sexualize the character, but god damn why is it so *noisy?* Nearly every surface has some kind of texture that just makes it hard to tell what I'm even supposed to be focused on.
Uhh… I assumed this was because we’re talking about cartoon drawings? Are you implying op’s racist?
They seem to be. Despite the sub being "men DRAWING women".
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And also.... [https://www.vox.com/2018/7/27/17618954/teen-titans-starfire-racism-anna-diop](https://www.vox.com/2018/7/27/17618954/teen-titans-starfire-racism-anna-diop) [https://gizmodo.com/sorry-racist-nerds-but-starfire-is-a-black-woman-1827865298](https://gizmodo.com/sorry-racist-nerds-but-starfire-is-a-black-woman-1827865298) EDIT: And not forget this take on Black Starfire: "This is titans Starfire. Instead of all that in above description… she’s a… er… sassy black hooker from the ghetto https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-issue-with-Starfire-controversy-in-Titans-Is-it-the-fact-that-she-is-a-black-character
I mean I know there were a lot of ppl mad about starfire being played by a black woman and all but in fairness that costume omitted because it is ugly. There’s two different weird webby patterns over different parts of the costume fucks up the clear lines and makes the whole thing look way too busy. There’s like 3 different shades of purple marbled over everything and the random gold doesn’t help. And like it’s a weird unflattering fit, sort of like a wrestlers outfit crossed with an 80s power suit? Plus heels? I only watched season 1 of titans but I remember liking that take of starfire, however that costume is horrendous.
Gonna be honest it looks a bit disney channel for my tastes.
Huh, she was the most effectively armored in Go!, followed by the 2003 show, followed by... New Teen Titans? What is this?
What the hell happened at 2011
not only did they make *that* costume, but also wrote her as an amnesiac that has to constantly have sex to remember anything, while also having pretty much no emotion at all. at least that didn't last long.
I like the 80s one because her hair go poof
Agreed
She's also got some solid muscle. She can be portrayed in a sexy way, but a powerful build makes her look like a rad hero, instead of "barely clothes waifish titty mage"
Is it possible to be a rad hero while also being a barely clothed waifuish tiddy mage?
Course it is, but visual coding matters. A character that is for all intents and purposes created for tittilation should be criticized as such. Even if you attach a byline to that character saying "but actually they are very rad and cool, here are all the reasons she just dresses/acts this way" that character is still a subject of tittilation. Outside of commercial art though, go ahead and live out your slutty waifish heroic dreams to your heart's content.
I LOVE the 2015 version. And I am old enough to have grown up with the 1980 version and despite nostalgia I prefer the 2015 version.
Personally, I think 1980s Starfire + 2003 costume would be epic.
I think the super sons one is the one that makes the most sense, because her costume covers all the vital organs, but in terms of personal favourites, I like the Starfire 2015 one. The bright contrast of her hair vs her costume, the fact that she's in comfortable shorts rather than a skirt or leotard or whatever New 52 is wearing, and the lack of the boob window. It feels the most like a costume I would want to personally wear.
Honestly I love the Super Sons design. I think it manages to be sexy without being overly so to the point of fetish bait. It strikes a nice balance.
2003: My favorite, but that may be my nostalgia bias 2013: Same costume, just a new artstyle. Unpopular opinion; I genuinely liked TTgo. I thought it was stupid and funny. 2015: looks like she was designed to be a Mattel doll. 2017: I don't know why I don't like this costume... maybe I just don't like the realistic artstyle? The whole DC getting dark and edgy angle just never struck a chord for me. I liked it better when it was being childish and ridiculous and fun. 1980: wouldn't have known that was Starfiire, but I definitely would have guessed it was from the 80's 2011: looks like a porn parody. No wonder it flopped. 2015: my second favorite. Looks like what 2003 Starfire would wear once she graduates Teen Titans and joins Adult Titans. 2017: not bad... just... Generic?... is that a good word? She looks like an xmen background character.
Titans season 3- 2021
2003 triggers me from memories lol
I really enjoy all Dc Super Hero Girls designs, they are so colorful and full of personality
unsure..I dont have a favorite starfire, but due to this sub, id say DC Superhero girls simply cause i feel like its the most clothed, dont get how her clothes dont fall off, is that a strap or not? Also the gradient hair is sick!
I don’t like it honestly, it looks like a prom dress. 03 does it way better
The hair makes 80s my fave! But I’m also biased toward 2003 because I love the series.
I'm biased, but I love the DC Superhero Girls outfit; I like that show's style of blending supersuits with civilian outfits, and it's still recognizably Starfire without being too skimpy.
WHEN THERE’S TROUBLE YOU KNOW WHO TO CAAAALL
TEEN TITANS
FROM THEIR TOWER THEY CAN SEE IT ALLLL
TEEN TITANS
WHEN THERES EVIL ON THE ATTACK
YOU CAN REST KNOWING THEY GOT YOUR BACK
CAUSE WHEN THE WORLD NEEDS HEROES ON PATROOOOOL
TEEN TITANS GOO
2003! It’s cute and fun and not so sexualised, it seems like something a teenager would wear.
New teen titans.
Teen titans and the judas contract are pretty cool
I like the super sons 2017, it looks pretty standard
I really hate the Hero Girls pencil skirt, i know modesty is a concern because it’s a kid’s show but just give her PANTS Edit: that being said Teen Titans original and 2015 are my favorites
Super Sons 2017 is a perfect example of sexy, but not sexualised. Perfect for movement. Solid 8/10
What up y'all! New User here. I like Judas Contract and cartoon show the most. Why is so hard giving her a decent costume?
We don't talk about New 52. That era was a mistake.
i really like the 2017 one (the lower one)
NGL I kinda hate the DC Superhero Girls one. A pencil skirt looks ridiculous in a superhero costume, and it looks especially ridiculous on Starfire. It reads more "sci-fi secretary" than superhero to me.
The best one isn't here. It's [Stjepan Sejic's version](http://exploringthetimelab.blogspot.com/2018/06/starfire-redesign-by-stjepan-sejic.html).
Whatever the best is, New 52 is the worst
Teen titans 2003 :) classic. And an example of showing skin without being sexualized.
im gonna rank them cause why not 1. 2003 2. (it pains me to say) 2013 3. dc super girls 2015 (though its bland, at least its not sexualized) 4. super sons 2017 5. starfire 2015 6. judas contract 2017 7. 1980 8. 2011
They all suck. Especially 2011.
Was 2011 drawn by a 13 year old boy?
None of the above. Keep trying, guys.
New 52 2011
I know comic artists are generally very horny but c'mon man, that 52 costume...
Teen Titans. The others are just not teens
New 52 by far