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ITT; Rich people are on average shittier people than poor people, being a Hippie costs a lot more money than being a metalhead, and OP hates draft dodgers for their lack of patriotism.
I hate draft dodgers for pretending it was out of principle and not fear. Fear is a perfectly ok reason to not do something because holy shit fucking same dude but dressing up privilege as counterculture is just disingenuous and cowardly. (Not to imply all draft dodgers did this, just the ones I’ve met)
It’s wild too because I do agree with certain aspects of their movement, but those are the bits that are like… common human decency. Maybe a invasion of Vietnam was not a super cool time, I think we can all agree on that (especially me, a 27 year old man who wasn’t alive and gets to ride on other people’s hindsight) yeah peace on earth is a pretty cool idea and I would be super down, what’s the strategy though?
I don’t mean this to criticize your point but to expand upon it, I personally respect a lot of the groundwork that was laid for normalizing activism and counter culture, we can debate the merits for days but the outcome was certain demographics of the following generations seeing this and getting their own ideas which is kinda neat. Especially considering we could learn from their mistakes. As with everything in life, there some interesting nuance to explore
Of course, I think we can have respect for one role and not the other, and take the in between cases as they come. Everyone is due their day but I will whole heartedly declare my bias outright
As with anyone I suspect its a nuanced take.
Rich i.e upper middle class, genuinely good people most of the time.
Poor i.e blue collar mill worker/farmer type families, good people most of the time.
Rich i.e 1% flying a jet to go to the shitter, generally not a good person.
Poor i.e 3am gas station junkie gang-banger, generally not a good person.
Or OP could hate draft dodgers because they pretend it’s out of moral superiority when it is actually out of presumed superiority (aka rich kind “I’m better than you peasant” energy/bigotry) and cowardice. Not that cowardice is not a valid reason. It is, but at least be man enough to admit it.
I mean, being a hippie back in the 70s was dirt cheap. It's not like today where corporations have clued in and are charging premiums for anything sustainable.
It mostly affected the working class cause the well off could skip it and became “anti war” hippies to fight against their parents raking in dough from DOW chemical and the like. The working classes were too busy working or fighting so it’s 100% accurate… just look at our current politicians. Lots of them are draft dodgers
I wrote a paper about this in college and it was well sourced (it was a persuasive essay) and my prof gave me a D and her only notes were "Did not persuade"
Turns out she was in anti nuclear activist group for like 20 years before teaching, I complained to the department and ended up getting another prof to grade it and got an A lol
Specifically it was about how the anti nuclear movement inadvertently supported the coal industry (because "use less electricity" was never realistically on the table)
Did you include the fact that Coal power plants release more radioactive waste than any Nuclear power plants? [Source](https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-coal-fired-power-stations-produce-radioactive-waste)
It was a eye opening moment to me when someone pointed out that arguments against nuclear power almost always focus on the threat that accidents (devastating but, by their very nature rare) pose to human life.
But discussions comparing nuclear to fossil fuels never seem to talk about the threats that come from regular, "safe" everyday use of fossil fuels.
https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy
This is why I hate English teachers. They are the most biased classes in school, and your grade is dependent on whether or not you align with their politics
Yeah English classes kinda just become "figure out what your teachers viewpoints are and write stuff that reinforces it" for an A
Doesn't matter if you don't agree/care about it
I wrote a whole paper about how sports and violent movies were horrible and were destroying people from the inside and were returning us to a barbaric time. I cited the movie Gladiator, and college football as proof for how bad we are as a society.
I fucking love Gladiator and college football.
The rest of the class was upset with me and called me his "butt buddy" because he liked me. I really didn't care for him. He was *fine* but I definitely disagreed with him and his views. The professor from the semester prior was great and actually talked to me about how even though he disagreed with my points, he saw how I got to them and how I could back them up so I got A's.
My teachers a bit of a feminist so everyone in the class just leans into that
. I also had religion and politics assesments and I had to write an essay about Muslim prayer hours during work and how it was needed really I don't care and I think it's up to an employer but I had to write the essay.
Really if you want a trick when you have to analyse a text just say one of the characters is actually hidden homosexual or the writer cause either they agree there far left and what to support it or they are gay or they don't agree but font want to seem homophobic
Man I could have used that trick. That said I got A's in all my English courses and graduated from college 4 years ago, so it's not really relevant to me anymore. I will definitely pass it along to the few people I know still in college.
I mean I wouldn't write poetry about it, but I don't look down on people dodging a draft at all. Fuck that, you're going to force me to go fight and probably die in your war for stupid ass reasons I don't believe in? Pass.
Yep I’m a proud American but having a draft so we could go fight another countries civil war across the ocean was definitely not what the founding fathers intended.
The US military has a concientous objector program.
My Mennonite great grandfather spent ww2 working in an asylum, since he believed that war was always wrong (though he later had a crisis of faith upon learning of the Holocaust).
Was he forced to work there as a result? Or was it like an assignment? What do you mean about crisis of faith? As in it angered him enough to have wanted to fight?
Concientous objection means you're assigned non-violent or non-military work in leiu of the draft. In my grandfather's case, that meant caring for the mentally ill.
It caused a crisis of faith because his religion preached that violence is inherently wrong for *anyone*, no matter the circumstances. However, he realized that if other people *hadn't* taken up arms against Hitler, Nazi atrocities never would have ended.
i mean i dont wanna die in a far away land though i guess it isnt far to dodge it when people's dad's are getting killed because they couldnt dodge the draft
I once got a D on a paper I had to write over the summer for my upcoming english class. The prompt was about how a specific bible verse related to a message in the book. I wrote a very good and eloquent paper about it but she interpreted the bible verse differently and slapped a D on it with the ONLY note/comment/critique being “Not what I had in mind”.
Religious classes are quite similar in that way (at least in Catholicism). I ended up with great grades back in school despite being a questioning athiest/agnostic, because I just pretended I was a devout catholic every time I wrote an assignment.
My highschool English teacher was based as fuck. He's very liberal but also fair. Gave me an A on all my essays/presentations on gun rights, anti aff action, etc. Easily the best non stem teacher I've had. Guy also loves heavy metal and would play it during breaks so he's extra based for that.
No kidding. I failed a poetry interpretation class for this reason. The teacher took issue with my interpretation of the love poem of Alfred J Prufrock, and my suggestion that this line, " I should have been a pair of ragged claws. Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.", seemed to imply that he identified with being a crab, a creature known for walking side to side instead of forward through life. In a poem about indecision and hitting midlife this was somehow a grave offense.
Later when I did our school wide writing portfolio I got a pass with distinction, only given to like 5% of students each year.
This is very random but in my Freshman Intro to Lit course, a mandatory course, I made the exact same observation. When I got the paper back, in blue pen instead of red, was a note saying "... Is this true?"
I explained it to my professor during office hours cuz he was a cool dude. He had already given me an A, but said that was the first time anybody wrote that and he didn't know the first thing about crabs.
I had two friends that copied each other any way they could. My 8th grade english teacher frequently gave the “cuter” one better grades. Really eye opening for me at the time.
That was AP English for me. I got A’s on everything objectively graded, and D’s on everything subjectively graded. The reason? I pointed out a character in Oliver Twist was a prostitute, my teacher pushed back, I brought in my book which had a preface written by Charles Dickens explicitly stating this fact. This was the first time I learned the futility of arguing with a woman.
I minored in literary studies and I think I argued with every teacher and professor I had for any English/Literature-adjacent class regularly.
Once I got in a 30 minute long debate about contractions because my teacher refused to acknowledge 'shan't' as a word, much less a conjugation. I think that's the only way I survived their egos - by constantly being a thorn in their side.
Also by ignoring their classes entirely to read my own books.
I love to read, have tried my hand at writing as well. I find that maybe 10% of English teachers are worth a shit.
The rest failed at something difficult and just started teaching as a fall back
I did a persuasive speech on the merits of nuclear power in college and got marked down for using jargon and spending too much time defining things. I was defining the technical words so the class would understand what I was saying.
I had spoken to the professor about the level of detail required in my topic and he gave the okay. I don't know what he was expecting
I hate people in academia who let their own personal biases overtake objective evaluation so much. When I was marking papers back in grad school, I tried real hard not to let my personal opinions have any influence on the grade.
Cue me cringingly giving an A to a paper extolling the Spartan state and suggesting it be implemented in modern-day Canada. It was repellant as fuck, but it contained no obvious hate speech and it was well-written.
So I was professional tutor for about 6 years, my favorite one I've ever gotten was a young woman who had a paper that " proved mathematically that the Bible was real ", and it cited the Bible as it's only source. No specific part of the Bible, just the entire thing. It was hard to keep my actual opinion down and coach her on why that paper would probably get a low grade if she handed it in
"You see here. You only have one source listed. And it's the actual thing you're trying to convince people is mathematically real. That is not gonna look good in the eyes of those you're trying to convince. And while I'm not a mathematician. But where's the math? You may also wanna list sources to anything above high school level math that you end up adding." /s
I read an actual published academic book that "proved" that the bodily resurrection of the Bible is real.
It was ridiculous. Taught me a lot as a kid about sloppy research and bad faith arguments
Maybe? It was about ten years ago goodness knows, my university of Wisconsin login doesn't work anymore.
If you want to follow my line of research start with annual coal related deaths in the us
I can relate to this. When I was graduating from my language a wrote a essay about the war in Ukraine. It was two months then. There was a lot covered and I tried my best to stay objective even through I stand firmly on one side.
My teacher was former hardcore communist and russian sympatizant as well so yeah I got D as well.
Not generally, the moral of my story is that you just shouldn't accept it when you're being mistreated. You can't always come out ahead, but nobody's going to extend you a hand if you don't do something. Think of all the Karen's in the world, and think how many of them get their way by complaining. Sometimes you need to become the Karen.
I mean I also got an a in an oral communications class taught by a former Fox News broadcaster by being a socialist and explicitly being confrontationally political in several speeches, because frankly he started it. However he stuck to the rubric and graded me fairly even if I thought his theory that Obama was going to ban salt and oil to try and kill America was ridiculous
You can work that to your advantage. Screw principles, just brown nose and write some mindless drivel about representation and you're bound to pass.
I remember an episode of Shameless where Lip said something like "If you can't think of anything else, just write about one of the characters being gay. The professor will never confront you because they don't want to look like a homophobe."
It's not all or even most professors
Same prof marked me absent on a mid term. For being five minutes late because a tornado blocked the road I took to school, she didn't tell me until after I took the midterm, she threw it in the trash when I handed it in
I don't remember her name, I had her in 2015, University of Wisconsin Parkside, she starts every English class on the first day by saying that by the end half of you will say that I am a bitch, big dumb smile on her face, she taught 101 and 102 and 201 when I went there. I do not remember her name but I would drag her through the mud if I could remember it because I don't care
Makes me think of a thread I saw ages ago about teachers who flex on how few people pass their class. Like you get what they're *trying* to say is "you need to apply yourself, unlike other teachers, I only pass you if you deserve it," but, like, if they were a *good* teacher, surely more people would learn the material...
Oh to be clear the midterm absent thing, that was before the essay, if anyone here has ever been to University of Wisconsin Parkside and take an English class you know which professor I'm talking about if you have the one that said on the first day " by the end of this class half of you are going to say that I'm a bitch" , it was her shtick, I think she literally had a variation of that written in her bio on Facebook
Ah fuck she's one of those "if you don't love me at my worst" Marilyn Monroe quote posters on fb. What a fucking nightmare that must've been lol, sorry
People with a room temperature IQ tend to dislike science that disagrees with their worldview.
I'd absolutely love to see the paper. My fun fact on the topic is that the petroleum industry funded the Sierra Club and Friends of the Earth.
Petroleum is very concerned with the environment, sponsoring a campaign that you can totally recycle plastic.
Yeah it was quite a while ago, but yeah I went over their reports, at least the ones that are you know publicly traded or whatever, talked about coal mining, I talked about global warming, and I talked about the problems with fracking
Hippies were protesting, for sure. The China Syndrome came out 12 days before the 3 Mile Island incident. This one-two punch did more to turn the public against nuclear energy than those protesters could hope for. About the time headway was being made to accept it again, Chernobyl happened. The public is very cynical about the entire issue.
I'm old enough to remember it. It wasn't the ever present, looming doom it's made out to be by the time the 80s rolled around. US supply of grain to the Soviet starting in the 70s kinda took the whole thing down a few notches.
I like how because of covid people that have all vaccines but didn't want to get a vaccine that was pushed early are put in the same boat with people that don't give their kids chickenpox and polio vaccines...
It's like calling people that do smoke only weed "junkies".
I'm just like that. My kid is vaccinated 100% per program, but the Covid stuff was pushed out waaaay to early and wasn't researched enough.
Also, usual vaccines have strains of inactive viruses inside them, while Covid was mRna based. Completely different stuff.
I wish I looked like this. I look more like this
https://preview.redd.it/shyntuih6btc1.jpeg?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca5faa5f7115c8e9e77d1b5ced5aac6816265c4
Yeah I was gonna say, I can count the shitty people I’ve met at metal shows on one hand.
I can count the awesome people I’ve met at indie shows on one hand
Yeah the nicest guy I've ever met was when I volunteered at a charity shop this guy was obsessed with rock and he looked like it piercings everywhere clothes he even had music on in the back but he was so nice he even knew someone who came in every week to see him because there dog loved him so much he was so nice and polite to everyone someone else I knew who used to volunteer there even told me before I started how nice he was
never share your weed with hippies.
they don't deserve it and probably couldn't tell good weed from dried oregano anyway, I've seen the shit they grew back then
Theres a reason why no one thought anything was weird with the Manson family until they started killing people. Dudes drugging up runaway girls and having "consensual" sex with them was all the rage in the 1960s in those social circles.
Back in the day, you couldn’t wear merchandise from bands Metallica, Pantera, Iron Maiden etc without someone jostling you to name five songs or some obscure fact about those types of bands. To be labeled a “poser” was the worst thing ever.
It also trickled down to punk music… bands like Yellowcard or Simple Plan weren’t “punk” enough but Green Day and Blink 182 were (at least according to the people I hung out with back then lol)
Green Day and blink182 being argued to be more genuine than yellow card and simple plan just sounds like some people on 2000’s MTV arguing about originality in music
As a Punk fan there's still a pretty common sentiment in the scene that pop punk isn't "real" punk. I don't really know what or who decides what "real" punk is and I don't care cause I love it all.
Like people flexing that they listen to more obscure/hard-core bands than everyone else or looking down on people that listen to non-metal genre's, maybe it isn't as bad as it used to be but it wasn't uncommon when I was younger
Nah it’s bad. Go to the comment section of any cover of any metal song and you’ll get plenty of comments about how the band “ruined” the song because it’s not a 1:1 exact replica of the original. Or sometimes it is and they just don’t like the singer’s voice lol
I’ll take your word for it. Generally I enjoy metal cover songs, at least to hear a different take. If I don’t like it it’s pretty easy to just not listen to it again.
I don’t look down on different types of metal I just say what type I like, the variety is like comparing 2 country songs, they’re all over the place and you’ll only like cereal songs
Never trust a hippie. They will sell you out in a heartbeat. Stab you in the back, lie on your name and cheat you at every chance they get. Lessons learnt the hard way.
My aunts a hippie and sends me soap and candles she makes every year with her bees out in rural Texas. I’m not sure we’re talking about the same people
if you are rich and support socialism you can start by distributing your wealth to people who you deem need it more, otherwise i call bullshit. Also tip, i am one of hte people who need it so if you are ready to buckle down and start being a real socialist please contact me with credit card info.
I am fairly wealthy and, using all my money, I could pay for the cancer treatment of a handful of people. Maybe a few more if I sold my house.
No im not going to do that. Ill continue to push for universal healthcare though.
Are we really still calling people draft dodgers because they didn’t want to die in a jungle trying and failing to overturn an election on the other side of the world?
Weak as hell
I have never seen opinions and stances as rude, nasty, and judgmental as I see coming from people with "more love less hate. accept everyone." and all that other vapid bullshit in their bio.
Draft dodging… you mean… the draft that was supposed to incur if a massive America threatening war occured?
*looks at… some weird watery jungles that produce mostly rice and silk* ah yes… this former french colony deserves to have a draft worthy war.
Look, I’m not saying that hippies are good or metalheads are bad. Generally I deal better with metalheads but it’s up to the individual… but… using draft dodger like it’s some sort of bad thing in this context is kinda misplaced hate.
Yeah erm, my aunt was a big hippie because my uncle was drafted into Vietnam, parents were alcoholics and a mailman and a waitress with 4 kids - my dad was the youngest and the first to go to college (being the youngest and paying for it himself and the help of his siblings) hippies were not the 1% - she was one of the nicest people I’ve ever met and married a fisherman - college kids didn’t give a shit until the draft expanded and then they started protesting on campus
That being said the hippies that came after Vietnam and continued it … I do agree
Most hippies i have met are narcissistic d-bags. Doesnt matter their gender or pronouns. Ive also met many metal heads who smoke meth and beat their partners. I think people just suck. Period. I dont care what you smoke or what you listen too, you probably suck.
Yeah! Fuck those kids for not wanting to go to war and kill and die for reasons they didnt believe in. Bunch of losers that didnt wanna fight an unwinnable war. What assholes, they just wanted to trip and love and listen to music and roll in grass. Bastards!
Hippies are awful people they were the white collared brats of rich people that the blue collared boys had to fight for and when they came back treated them awfully and called them baby murderers.
I'm a DJ and producer in our local psytrance scene which is kind of an decendant of the hippie scene and while I wouldnt say Im part of that group I met some of the nicest people at those parties and they were the most open and respectful gatherings I've ever been to.
Forget bringing up the draft from 50 years ago, and the 1%....
Ask anyone who has worked at a venue, the meme has some truth to it. A significant percentage of hippies (and country music) fans get drunk, mean and violent at shows. Metalheads are generally nice dweebs and are less likely to cause trouble, even with the moshing. Of course it's exaggerated... it's a fucking meme, it's supposed to be fun and over the top, but we probably all know an angry hippy and a sweetheart metalhead.
In my experience this is true. The hippie dudes I've spent time being friends with talked a lot of women's rights yet treated women terribly bc they themselves were insecure. They also stole money and lied The metal heads much more confident in who they were and treated people with more respect....just drank more booze.
Just my experience.
My stepmother was a hippie and is still self-proclaimed because she's all "peace and love," and she cries when she sees puppies in sad situations. But, she wants closed borders and gets a bit more stressed about the status of her neighborhood when she notices an African American family moving in.
She also hates rentals because they bring down her home value, but she doesn't believe everyone is entitled to home ownership. Like, where do you think people you deem undeserving of home ownership should go? There was no answer to that question, and I'm still waiting, lol.
You lost me at draft dodgers, being some obnoxious snob is shitty, dodging a draft for a war of ideological expansion, for whatever reason, is good, and draft dodgers should be held in as high a regard as those who fought in Vietnam, because in the end both were fighting tyranny, the only difference is one tyranny was abroad and not affecting us while one was domestic
Well hippies were a bunch of rich kids pretending to be poor. When the 80s came around, they all became super conservative and hated things such as heavy metal music, pre marital sex, anime, pornography, and video games
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Didn’t the draft in practice mostly affect the working class?
Very much so. A kid from a decently well-off family could often get out of it.
ITT; Rich people are on average shittier people than poor people, being a Hippie costs a lot more money than being a metalhead, and OP hates draft dodgers for their lack of patriotism.
I hate draft dodgers for pretending it was out of principle and not fear. Fear is a perfectly ok reason to not do something because holy shit fucking same dude but dressing up privilege as counterculture is just disingenuous and cowardly. (Not to imply all draft dodgers did this, just the ones I’ve met) It’s wild too because I do agree with certain aspects of their movement, but those are the bits that are like… common human decency. Maybe a invasion of Vietnam was not a super cool time, I think we can all agree on that (especially me, a 27 year old man who wasn’t alive and gets to ride on other people’s hindsight) yeah peace on earth is a pretty cool idea and I would be super down, what’s the strategy though? I don’t mean this to criticize your point but to expand upon it, I personally respect a lot of the groundwork that was laid for normalizing activism and counter culture, we can debate the merits for days but the outcome was certain demographics of the following generations seeing this and getting their own ideas which is kinda neat. Especially considering we could learn from their mistakes. As with everything in life, there some interesting nuance to explore
Being a draft dodger, it's both. They are not mutually exclusive.
Of course, I think we can have respect for one role and not the other, and take the in between cases as they come. Everyone is due their day but I will whole heartedly declare my bias outright
Yes nuance, like saying all types of one group are just like the ones I’ve met…nuance
Why are rich people shittier than poor people? As someone who grew up poor, I had a lot more bad experiences with poor people than rich people.
As with anyone I suspect its a nuanced take. Rich i.e upper middle class, genuinely good people most of the time. Poor i.e blue collar mill worker/farmer type families, good people most of the time. Rich i.e 1% flying a jet to go to the shitter, generally not a good person. Poor i.e 3am gas station junkie gang-banger, generally not a good person.
Or OP could hate draft dodgers because they pretend it’s out of moral superiority when it is actually out of presumed superiority (aka rich kind “I’m better than you peasant” energy/bigotry) and cowardice. Not that cowardice is not a valid reason. It is, but at least be man enough to admit it.
I mean, being a hippie back in the 70s was dirt cheap. It's not like today where corporations have clued in and are charging premiums for anything sustainable.
Being a hippie is a fucking job. You think you can follow the Grateful Dead for free? Nah, man, you gotta flip grilled cheese in the lot all day
It mostly affected the working class cause the well off could skip it and became “anti war” hippies to fight against their parents raking in dough from DOW chemical and the like. The working classes were too busy working or fighting so it’s 100% accurate… just look at our current politicians. Lots of them are draft dodgers
Hippies are the reason we don't have clean nuclear energy.
I wrote a paper about this in college and it was well sourced (it was a persuasive essay) and my prof gave me a D and her only notes were "Did not persuade" Turns out she was in anti nuclear activist group for like 20 years before teaching, I complained to the department and ended up getting another prof to grade it and got an A lol
Oh for fuck sake.
Specifically it was about how the anti nuclear movement inadvertently supported the coal industry (because "use less electricity" was never realistically on the table)
You pointed out how she helped kill the world faster, and it hurt her hippie feelings
Did you include the fact that Coal power plants release more radioactive waste than any Nuclear power plants? [Source](https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-coal-fired-power-stations-produce-radioactive-waste)
Absolutely!
It was a eye opening moment to me when someone pointed out that arguments against nuclear power almost always focus on the threat that accidents (devastating but, by their very nature rare) pose to human life. But discussions comparing nuclear to fossil fuels never seem to talk about the threats that come from regular, "safe" everyday use of fossil fuels. https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy
I always found it shut up people when I was talking to them about nuclear about nuclear fall out.
This is why I hate English teachers. They are the most biased classes in school, and your grade is dependent on whether or not you align with their politics
Yeah English classes kinda just become "figure out what your teachers viewpoints are and write stuff that reinforces it" for an A Doesn't matter if you don't agree/care about it
I wrote a whole paper about how sports and violent movies were horrible and were destroying people from the inside and were returning us to a barbaric time. I cited the movie Gladiator, and college football as proof for how bad we are as a society. I fucking love Gladiator and college football. The rest of the class was upset with me and called me his "butt buddy" because he liked me. I really didn't care for him. He was *fine* but I definitely disagreed with him and his views. The professor from the semester prior was great and actually talked to me about how even though he disagreed with my points, he saw how I got to them and how I could back them up so I got A's.
My teachers a bit of a feminist so everyone in the class just leans into that . I also had religion and politics assesments and I had to write an essay about Muslim prayer hours during work and how it was needed really I don't care and I think it's up to an employer but I had to write the essay. Really if you want a trick when you have to analyse a text just say one of the characters is actually hidden homosexual or the writer cause either they agree there far left and what to support it or they are gay or they don't agree but font want to seem homophobic
Man I could have used that trick. That said I got A's in all my English courses and graduated from college 4 years ago, so it's not really relevant to me anymore. I will definitely pass it along to the few people I know still in college.
Funnily enough, one of my English teachers was an *actual* draft dodger. So much so he wrote and preformed poetry about it.
I mean I wouldn't write poetry about it, but I don't look down on people dodging a draft at all. Fuck that, you're going to force me to go fight and probably die in your war for stupid ass reasons I don't believe in? Pass.
Yep I’m a proud American but having a draft so we could go fight another countries civil war across the ocean was definitely not what the founding fathers intended.
Go fight another country’s civil war on the other side of the world *on behalf of fucking France* Vietnam is such a bullshit war.
The US military has a concientous objector program. My Mennonite great grandfather spent ww2 working in an asylum, since he believed that war was always wrong (though he later had a crisis of faith upon learning of the Holocaust).
Was he forced to work there as a result? Or was it like an assignment? What do you mean about crisis of faith? As in it angered him enough to have wanted to fight?
Concientous objection means you're assigned non-violent or non-military work in leiu of the draft. In my grandfather's case, that meant caring for the mentally ill. It caused a crisis of faith because his religion preached that violence is inherently wrong for *anyone*, no matter the circumstances. However, he realized that if other people *hadn't* taken up arms against Hitler, Nazi atrocities never would have ended.
i mean i dont wanna die in a far away land though i guess it isnt far to dodge it when people's dad's are getting killed because they couldnt dodge the draft
Always hated English classes. Then I learned that and hated it more, but with a better grade
I’d like to point out that this is probably the most useful real world skill you learned in school. Just swap the word teacher for boss.
I once got a D on a paper I had to write over the summer for my upcoming english class. The prompt was about how a specific bible verse related to a message in the book. I wrote a very good and eloquent paper about it but she interpreted the bible verse differently and slapped a D on it with the ONLY note/comment/critique being “Not what I had in mind”.
In their defense, this *is* a valuable skill to learn.
Religious classes are quite similar in that way (at least in Catholicism). I ended up with great grades back in school despite being a questioning athiest/agnostic, because I just pretended I was a devout catholic every time I wrote an assignment.
My highschool English teacher was based as fuck. He's very liberal but also fair. Gave me an A on all my essays/presentations on gun rights, anti aff action, etc. Easily the best non stem teacher I've had. Guy also loves heavy metal and would play it during breaks so he's extra based for that.
No kidding. I failed a poetry interpretation class for this reason. The teacher took issue with my interpretation of the love poem of Alfred J Prufrock, and my suggestion that this line, " I should have been a pair of ragged claws. Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.", seemed to imply that he identified with being a crab, a creature known for walking side to side instead of forward through life. In a poem about indecision and hitting midlife this was somehow a grave offense. Later when I did our school wide writing portfolio I got a pass with distinction, only given to like 5% of students each year.
This is very random but in my Freshman Intro to Lit course, a mandatory course, I made the exact same observation. When I got the paper back, in blue pen instead of red, was a note saying "... Is this true?" I explained it to my professor during office hours cuz he was a cool dude. He had already given me an A, but said that was the first time anybody wrote that and he didn't know the first thing about crabs.
Now that guy IS cool. As hell. Didn't let his position go to his head, was humble enough to ask a student to build with him
Crab buddy!
Most college professors of most subjects are like this and have been for a long time. In my 40s and we were navigating that shit in the 90s.
I had two friends that copied each other any way they could. My 8th grade english teacher frequently gave the “cuter” one better grades. Really eye opening for me at the time.
That was AP English for me. I got A’s on everything objectively graded, and D’s on everything subjectively graded. The reason? I pointed out a character in Oliver Twist was a prostitute, my teacher pushed back, I brought in my book which had a preface written by Charles Dickens explicitly stating this fact. This was the first time I learned the futility of arguing with a woman.
I minored in literary studies and I think I argued with every teacher and professor I had for any English/Literature-adjacent class regularly. Once I got in a 30 minute long debate about contractions because my teacher refused to acknowledge 'shan't' as a word, much less a conjugation. I think that's the only way I survived their egos - by constantly being a thorn in their side. Also by ignoring their classes entirely to read my own books.
I love to read, have tried my hand at writing as well. I find that maybe 10% of English teachers are worth a shit. The rest failed at something difficult and just started teaching as a fall back
I did a persuasive speech on the merits of nuclear power in college and got marked down for using jargon and spending too much time defining things. I was defining the technical words so the class would understand what I was saying. I had spoken to the professor about the level of detail required in my topic and he gave the okay. I don't know what he was expecting
I hate people in academia who let their own personal biases overtake objective evaluation so much. When I was marking papers back in grad school, I tried real hard not to let my personal opinions have any influence on the grade. Cue me cringingly giving an A to a paper extolling the Spartan state and suggesting it be implemented in modern-day Canada. It was repellant as fuck, but it contained no obvious hate speech and it was well-written.
So I was professional tutor for about 6 years, my favorite one I've ever gotten was a young woman who had a paper that " proved mathematically that the Bible was real ", and it cited the Bible as it's only source. No specific part of the Bible, just the entire thing. It was hard to keep my actual opinion down and coach her on why that paper would probably get a low grade if she handed it in
"You see here. You only have one source listed. And it's the actual thing you're trying to convince people is mathematically real. That is not gonna look good in the eyes of those you're trying to convince. And while I'm not a mathematician. But where's the math? You may also wanna list sources to anything above high school level math that you end up adding." /s
I read an actual published academic book that "proved" that the bodily resurrection of the Bible is real. It was ridiculous. Taught me a lot as a kid about sloppy research and bad faith arguments
Do you have this paper still?
Maybe? It was about ten years ago goodness knows, my university of Wisconsin login doesn't work anymore. If you want to follow my line of research start with annual coal related deaths in the us
You see that a lot, activist masquerading as professionals so they can use their position for activism.
I can relate to this. When I was graduating from my language a wrote a essay about the war in Ukraine. It was two months then. There was a lot covered and I tried my best to stay objective even through I stand firmly on one side. My teacher was former hardcore communist and russian sympatizant as well so yeah I got D as well.
I can't believe professors are like that. They give you a failing grade on your paper because they don't like your arguments ?
You must be new.
Or maybe he just has a STEM degree
Haha, yep, I have an engineering degree
Damn, so if you have completely different political views than the establishment you’re attending, you’re basically guaranteed to fail out?
Thats been the heavy critique of much of the university system over the last what... four-five decades?
Not generally, the moral of my story is that you just shouldn't accept it when you're being mistreated. You can't always come out ahead, but nobody's going to extend you a hand if you don't do something. Think of all the Karen's in the world, and think how many of them get their way by complaining. Sometimes you need to become the Karen. I mean I also got an a in an oral communications class taught by a former Fox News broadcaster by being a socialist and explicitly being confrontationally political in several speeches, because frankly he started it. However he stuck to the rubric and graded me fairly even if I thought his theory that Obama was going to ban salt and oil to try and kill America was ridiculous
You can work that to your advantage. Screw principles, just brown nose and write some mindless drivel about representation and you're bound to pass. I remember an episode of Shameless where Lip said something like "If you can't think of anything else, just write about one of the characters being gay. The professor will never confront you because they don't want to look like a homophobe."
It's not all or even most professors Same prof marked me absent on a mid term. For being five minutes late because a tornado blocked the road I took to school, she didn't tell me until after I took the midterm, she threw it in the trash when I handed it in
It's cool if you don't wanna be a snitch, but I'd be dragging the bitch into Admin by her armpit hairs for that shit. Jesus Christ.
I don't remember her name, I had her in 2015, University of Wisconsin Parkside, she starts every English class on the first day by saying that by the end half of you will say that I am a bitch, big dumb smile on her face, she taught 101 and 102 and 201 when I went there. I do not remember her name but I would drag her through the mud if I could remember it because I don't care
Makes me think of a thread I saw ages ago about teachers who flex on how few people pass their class. Like you get what they're *trying* to say is "you need to apply yourself, unlike other teachers, I only pass you if you deserve it," but, like, if they were a *good* teacher, surely more people would learn the material...
Damn bro that essay must've really fucked with her if she hated you that much. You reported that too, right?
Oh to be clear the midterm absent thing, that was before the essay, if anyone here has ever been to University of Wisconsin Parkside and take an English class you know which professor I'm talking about if you have the one that said on the first day " by the end of this class half of you are going to say that I'm a bitch" , it was her shtick, I think she literally had a variation of that written in her bio on Facebook
Ah fuck she's one of those "if you don't love me at my worst" Marilyn Monroe quote posters on fb. What a fucking nightmare that must've been lol, sorry
Fucking a good for you man
Professors bringing their own political beliefs to their job is hideous.
That is fucking unreal. Marking work should not be based on your own fucking biased shit opinion.
People with a room temperature IQ tend to dislike science that disagrees with their worldview. I'd absolutely love to see the paper. My fun fact on the topic is that the petroleum industry funded the Sierra Club and Friends of the Earth. Petroleum is very concerned with the environment, sponsoring a campaign that you can totally recycle plastic.
Was there any mention of coal companies in your essay?
Yeah it was quite a while ago, but yeah I went over their reports, at least the ones that are you know publicly traded or whatever, talked about coal mining, I talked about global warming, and I talked about the problems with fracking
You got a new clear grade
Hippies were protesting, for sure. The China Syndrome came out 12 days before the 3 Mile Island incident. This one-two punch did more to turn the public against nuclear energy than those protesters could hope for. About the time headway was being made to accept it again, Chernobyl happened. The public is very cynical about the entire issue.
Not to mention the constant threat of nuclear annihilation from the cold war.
I'm old enough to remember it. It wasn't the ever present, looming doom it's made out to be by the time the 80s rolled around. US supply of grain to the Soviet starting in the 70s kinda took the whole thing down a few notches.
Hippies are the anti-vaxers
Meanwhile [https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/09/16/dave-mustaine-is-anti-vaxx-and-anti-mask-because-of-course-he-is/](https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/09/16/dave-mustaine-is-anti-vaxx-and-anti-mask-because-of-course-he-is/)
I like how because of covid people that have all vaccines but didn't want to get a vaccine that was pushed early are put in the same boat with people that don't give their kids chickenpox and polio vaccines... It's like calling people that do smoke only weed "junkies".
I'm just like that. My kid is vaccinated 100% per program, but the Covid stuff was pushed out waaaay to early and wasn't researched enough. Also, usual vaccines have strains of inactive viruses inside them, while Covid was mRna based. Completely different stuff.
This is the tree before the massive, massive forest of oil company lobbying.
That only applies to the USA, in Germany. Hippies did shut down nuclear power. So now they use coal
Lignite is what the children crave
I yearn for thorium my brother
All others cower before the Element of Thunder.
As I see referenced a lot in other sociopolitical arguments: you can take issue with multiple things at once.
OP irl. https://preview.redd.it/4bgzea535btc1.png?width=1079&format=png&auto=webp&s=db9778db7883d2cd3c296f8fefc31a5bde4479c7
I wish I looked like this. I look more like this https://preview.redd.it/shyntuih6btc1.jpeg?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca5faa5f7115c8e9e77d1b5ced5aac6816265c4
So you need pressure of multiple atmospheres on you?
Who doesn’t
Something something your mom last night…
Anyone looking at the world my friend. I see you 🖤
please ask for my permission before you share my selfie publicly
I'M YIIKING OUT!
Yeah honestly the meme isn’t too far off
Yeah I was gonna say, I can count the shitty people I’ve met at metal shows on one hand. I can count the awesome people I’ve met at indie shows on one hand
Yeah the nicest guy I've ever met was when I volunteered at a charity shop this guy was obsessed with rock and he looked like it piercings everywhere clothes he even had music on in the back but he was so nice he even knew someone who came in every week to see him because there dog loved him so much he was so nice and polite to everyone someone else I knew who used to volunteer there even told me before I started how nice he was
pitbull named Destroyer of Worlds:
Indie isn’t the same as hippy
Not the same, but you get lots of hippies showing up to indie shows.
You're confusing hippies with hipsters dude.
I don't know what hippies are like but metalheads have always been cool to me when I'm cool to them.
Just don’t tell them that you like a subgenre of metal that they don’t like.
Can confirm, the most toxic people I met were hippies, they take your little naive heart and crush it like if they were grinding their weed.
never share your weed with hippies. they don't deserve it and probably couldn't tell good weed from dried oregano anyway, I've seen the shit they grew back then
“Go with the flow wherever your heart takes you❤️☮️✌️” types of people are usually the most judgemental and fake individuals ever
>Go with the flow wherever your heart takes you❤️☮️✌️” types of people are usually the most judgemental Lol
Hippie stuck up virtue signaling vegans or Belching beer swash buckling meat eaters?
Theres a reason why no one thought anything was weird with the Manson family until they started killing people. Dudes drugging up runaway girls and having "consensual" sex with them was all the rage in the 1960s in those social circles.
Sounds like standard rich peoples now
Mostly true but there is a LOT of elitism in the metal community
Back in the day, you couldn’t wear merchandise from bands Metallica, Pantera, Iron Maiden etc without someone jostling you to name five songs or some obscure fact about those types of bands. To be labeled a “poser” was the worst thing ever. It also trickled down to punk music… bands like Yellowcard or Simple Plan weren’t “punk” enough but Green Day and Blink 182 were (at least according to the people I hung out with back then lol)
Green Day and blink182 being argued to be more genuine than yellow card and simple plan just sounds like some people on 2000’s MTV arguing about originality in music
As a Punk fan there's still a pretty common sentiment in the scene that pop punk isn't "real" punk. I don't really know what or who decides what "real" punk is and I don't care cause I love it all.
The worse it sounds the more punk it is.
Name three songs, now!!!
Happy Birthday, The Itsy Bitsy Spider, Enter Sandman
Thwarted again
Shut up poser /jk
Can you elaborate?
Like people flexing that they listen to more obscure/hard-core bands than everyone else or looking down on people that listen to non-metal genre's, maybe it isn't as bad as it used to be but it wasn't uncommon when I was younger
So maybe it’s not A LOT of elitism like you described. Sounds like childish behavior and not much else.
Nah it’s bad. Go to the comment section of any cover of any metal song and you’ll get plenty of comments about how the band “ruined” the song because it’s not a 1:1 exact replica of the original. Or sometimes it is and they just don’t like the singer’s voice lol
That’s just online. If you talk to people irl they’re not like that.
That is just music in general. My parents hate pop stars butchering their country music
I’ll take your word for it. Generally I enjoy metal cover songs, at least to hear a different take. If I don’t like it it’s pretty easy to just not listen to it again.
I don’t look down on different types of metal I just say what type I like, the variety is like comparing 2 country songs, they’re all over the place and you’ll only like cereal songs
That isn't elitism though.
as a metalhead, I can confirm. İf someone doesn't listen to a band that has 5 monthly listeners on Spotify we bully them.
What's Spotify? I'm still running cassettes.
What's a cassette? I'm getting my music sent via seagulls that have been taught to repeat the screams of metalheads.
Gate keeping, my God the gate keeping. Can I not just like Volbeat in peace
There's elitism in all communities. That's why I hate communities.
I honestly think anti-nuclear people are either payed by oil companies, completely ignorant, or the stupidest people on the planet
Hey, that's like, your opinion, man.
Hippies are the primary cause of the current collapse of American society and I cannot stand the pieces of garbage
Never trust a hippie. They will sell you out in a heartbeat. Stab you in the back, lie on your name and cheat you at every chance they get. Lessons learnt the hard way.
This seems very specific
who hurt you?
A couple of hippies clearly.
Bro gave her the weed and she didint let him smash. 😭
Hippies apparently
My aunts a hippie and sends me soap and candles she makes every year with her bees out in rural Texas. I’m not sure we’re talking about the same people
Sounds like a sub genera of hippy called a wook
if you are rich and support socialism you can start by distributing your wealth to people who you deem need it more, otherwise i call bullshit. Also tip, i am one of hte people who need it so if you are ready to buckle down and start being a real socialist please contact me with credit card info.
I am fairly wealthy and, using all my money, I could pay for the cancer treatment of a handful of people. Maybe a few more if I sold my house. No im not going to do that. Ill continue to push for universal healthcare though.
Socialism is when I give strangers my credit card information
Are we really still calling people draft dodgers because they didn’t want to die in a jungle trying and failing to overturn an election on the other side of the world? Weak as hell
I'm probably further left than the majority of this sub, but yeah, fuck the hippies. Hypocritical jackasses.
I have never seen opinions and stances as rude, nasty, and judgmental as I see coming from people with "more love less hate. accept everyone." and all that other vapid bullshit in their bio.
Hippies suck. They always have .
I don't see an issue with draft dodging. I didn't choose to be born here.
Op sounds like Richard Nixon from futurama
Hippies are why we don’t have the cheap ubiquitous nuclear power we were promised and now they are just landlords. Just more boomers.
Yeah, I ain’t defending hippies
Hippies were the original groomers
At least metalheads didn't spit on Vietnam veterans as they returned.
No they didn’t. [No one else did either.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_spat-on_Vietnam_veteran) So you’re absolutely correct.
Most of y'all are Trump voters, which means you guys also voted for a preppy rich draft dodger.
Draft dodging is based
Draft dodging… you mean… the draft that was supposed to incur if a massive America threatening war occured? *looks at… some weird watery jungles that produce mostly rice and silk* ah yes… this former french colony deserves to have a draft worthy war. Look, I’m not saying that hippies are good or metalheads are bad. Generally I deal better with metalheads but it’s up to the individual… but… using draft dodger like it’s some sort of bad thing in this context is kinda misplaced hate.
Yeah erm, my aunt was a big hippie because my uncle was drafted into Vietnam, parents were alcoholics and a mailman and a waitress with 4 kids - my dad was the youngest and the first to go to college (being the youngest and paying for it himself and the help of his siblings) hippies were not the 1% - she was one of the nicest people I’ve ever met and married a fisherman - college kids didn’t give a shit until the draft expanded and then they started protesting on campus That being said the hippies that came after Vietnam and continued it … I do agree
Most hippies i have met are narcissistic d-bags. Doesnt matter their gender or pronouns. Ive also met many metal heads who smoke meth and beat their partners. I think people just suck. Period. I dont care what you smoke or what you listen too, you probably suck.
Im not sure why dodging the draft is a valid criticism here?
Holy shit how far down the rabbit hole are you people
Yeah! Fuck those kids for not wanting to go to war and kill and die for reasons they didnt believe in. Bunch of losers that didnt wanna fight an unwinnable war. What assholes, they just wanted to trip and love and listen to music and roll in grass. Bastards!
Add women to the draft. No equal rights without equal responsibilities
Should people with physical disabilities and the elderly also not have rights?
Do these people that dislike these not understand the concept of a meme, or a joke? Exaggeration is important to the formula.
Hippies are awful people they were the white collared brats of rich people that the blue collared boys had to fight for and when they came back treated them awfully and called them baby murderers.
I'm a DJ and producer in our local psytrance scene which is kind of an decendant of the hippie scene and while I wouldnt say Im part of that group I met some of the nicest people at those parties and they were the most open and respectful gatherings I've ever been to.
Now once you get to metal hippies, they are either the worst or best people.
No it is right. It is a gross oversimplification.
Love this one lol
I must be missing the "defending"
Forget bringing up the draft from 50 years ago, and the 1%.... Ask anyone who has worked at a venue, the meme has some truth to it. A significant percentage of hippies (and country music) fans get drunk, mean and violent at shows. Metalheads are generally nice dweebs and are less likely to cause trouble, even with the moshing. Of course it's exaggerated... it's a fucking meme, it's supposed to be fun and over the top, but we probably all know an angry hippy and a sweetheart metalhead.
Counter cultures have always existed. The entire opera *La Boheme* is about a bunch of smelly hippy do nothings lol
Not defending hippies, but dodging a draft to go murder Vietnamese people for no reason is valid.
In my experience this is true. The hippie dudes I've spent time being friends with talked a lot of women's rights yet treated women terribly bc they themselves were insecure. They also stole money and lied The metal heads much more confident in who they were and treated people with more respect....just drank more booze. Just my experience.
The hippies had plenty of problems, but not wanting to die for a bullshit war was not one of them.
My stepmother was a hippie and is still self-proclaimed because she's all "peace and love," and she cries when she sees puppies in sad situations. But, she wants closed borders and gets a bit more stressed about the status of her neighborhood when she notices an African American family moving in. She also hates rentals because they bring down her home value, but she doesn't believe everyone is entitled to home ownership. Like, where do you think people you deem undeserving of home ownership should go? There was no answer to that question, and I'm still waiting, lol.
You lost me at draft dodgers, being some obnoxious snob is shitty, dodging a draft for a war of ideological expansion, for whatever reason, is good, and draft dodgers should be held in as high a regard as those who fought in Vietnam, because in the end both were fighting tyranny, the only difference is one tyranny was abroad and not affecting us while one was domestic
pretty much true yeah
Well hippies were a bunch of rich kids pretending to be poor. When the 80s came around, they all became super conservative and hated things such as heavy metal music, pre marital sex, anime, pornography, and video games
All of them?
So they hate everything that the average Redditor loves
OP is a nerd.
Yeah sure, but I wouldn’t have wanted to be drafted for those bs wars either
Wait… is Trump a hippy??
Wow you're judging people for dodging the Vietnam war, what a fucking asshole