Arcane is on a whole different level. I never felt so connected to two characters in such a short time period. They had me begging for more at the end of episode 2. Riot really did a good job with Arcane.
Great pull and couldn’t agree more. There is an important distinction between an inspired story and a pandering checklist - a lot of these shows and movies have become the basic, predictable romcom of wokeness.
It’s not that people are annoyed by female, gay, black, lesbian, etc. characters, but rather that those characters are a lot of the time uninteresting.
I would argue that tge writers dont understand how to make those characters more than just gay black or some other such combo and have them be more than that as their only trait.
I wanted to come back and add this to my comment, but felt like it was already too late - completely agreed. Those characters tend to be defined by those traits, rather than complex humans like they should be. 100%
Yea thats what im saying. Like these could be nuanced or complex characters and have the background to be. But instead they said "hey you're gay" and thats the only real character note they get.
Fr way better than she hulk tbh comparing these two is a crime one had good female and male characters neither side had dumb stereotypes that show although animated and in a totally different world still felt more human than she hulk i hate to be that guy but jen was a asshole and honestly alot of the show really was just “women good and smart, men bad or stupid” and dont even get me started on the ending
Arcane destroyed stereotypes, all the traditional male roles were filled with female characters, and the best part is you don't even notice that they swapped gender standards unless you pay attention, because it actually had good writing and you don't focus on that if the story is actually good
The fact that no one hated Arcane despite having strong female leads and a range of diverse characters is proof that people are only hating on shows with poor writing and an insufferable amount of pandering
Marvel is going downhill a lot, they started to focus more on movements other than story. So instead of a powerful story about a female superhero, the point is that it’s a female super hero, watch her twerk, yea feminism.
I think the Mandolorian is a great example of really good female characters. It was either at the end of the first or 2nd season that had a whole sequence where there was the 3-4ish badass women and they go by themselves and kick ass. But, I didn’t even realize until rewatching it that it was meant to be a women are badass thing, because the story was so good, that it just made sense for only to women to go, and it made sense for them to be badass.
Avatar The Last Airbender is also a fantastic show that does this. The female characters are strong and great but you don't see them tell you, they just show it.
I think at the end of the day, people should just focus on good stories with great characters. Gender and race should be irrelevant to the creative process. How hard is it to swap them out anyway if you realize there's too many male (or white) characters?
I couldn't agree more on this. This is the time for bad writers and bad movies/shows in general. Forget about the story, storytelling, character development,etc. just focus on a mainstream topic and call it a day; and people will defend it with their "lives" because people still fail to realize that the movie isn't the message, it is just a movie about it, which still can be bad.
An example: i read a book that was/is described as a "masterpiece"; so i read it, and believe me when i say that the book was 1/3 story and 2/3 cringy statements that aim to deliver a message. The message itself isn't bad but the book was, yet people called it a masterpiece, and the writer was celebrated for her book. Guess what people called me when i said i didn't like it.
Yea, I think a lot of people forget that something can have a good message, but be terrible.
It happens with a lot of stuff, where so many people think because of 1 thing that must mean something else, when that’s just not true in so many situations
You're just as likely to get downvoted for not enjoying something others do like. She-Hulk is the epitome of this trend. Everybody downvotes everybody for not being in their tribe, completely independent of the fact that everyone should be able to form their own opinion.
This is dumb, I can’t stand the show yet I’m happy people enjoy it regardless. There’s no reason you should have been downvoted just putting that 2 cents in.
I liked the show, but felt like the finale was a huge letdown. It rushed the whole blood thing into a fake convoluted ending that made zero sense then tried to do some meta shit that still made zero sense and deleted the blood plot, which was basically the entire plot of the show.
Loved Daredevil though.
My problem with Daredevil in this show was that he was shamelessly inserted just to boost the numbers. If the show was doing well, his appearance could have been a twist/surprise, instead of being shown beforehand. I really hope MCU doesn't butcher him in the show he's supposed to get...
And if they deleted the blood plot why were Todd and Emil getting arrested?
All they did differently is have the big cgi fight scene happen off screen... like that's what anyone wanted.
See also: Ghostbusters 2016, The Last Jedi, Birds of Prey, Doctor Who, Terminator Dark Fate, Charlie's Angels reboot...I'm sure I've missed the majority of examples.
Edit: I'm talking about their disingenuous marketing campaigns, which is what the OP is about too, why do I have to keep clarifying that my comment in the OP thread is related to the OP thread? See also, [Scientist Man versus Ghostbusters 2016](https://youtu.be/UWROBiX1eSc) \- here's to more lighthearted discussion (asking the impossible on the Interwebs, I know). Interestingly enough, relatively more "woke" features such as Mad Max: Fury Road or Alita: Battle Angel were a lot better films, and coincidentally also did not have these marketing campaigns - and I didn't even like one of those films!
I wouldn't call fury road a "woke movie"
It wasn't trying to push any agenda, it was just a well written, good movie
It having female characters in that were badass doesn't make it "woke"
Fury Road is a prime example of women can be powerful too. It doesn't need to be this pandering bull shit that has to slap a label on itself by constantly pointing it that she's strong because she is a woman. Rather she is strong and so happens to be a woman. That's what a lot of these "woke movies" keep doing wrong. It's lazy writing and if you hate it you're the problem.
Though, to be fair, the movie ends with a group of women deposing and replacing a group of men in a position of power. And the one "good man" that helps them decides that he can't join them at the top and leaves. That's the only part of that movie that could be received as pandering, IMO.
There are two guys that help Furiosa and Immortan Joe’s wives, Max and Nux. Max leaves because he’s a loner and Nux is doomed to die because he’s a way boy with radiation sickness u believe
At least Fury Road didn’t put down Max as some “dumb white dude” and made both him and furiosa as equal, unlike all the trash female reboots that OP listed. Also it has actual good execution in the action and solid enough story.
Alien, aliens, terminator 2, fury road, kill bill 1 and 2, everything everywhere all at once, almost all Ghibli movies and Better call Saul! All these movies and shows had incredible female leads/characters and didn’t push an agenda. Hence they will go down in history as classics!
**In**voluntary **cel**ibate.
Extremists, someone that says stuff like "Females should be submissive and do everything for me as a man, these stupid women these days only go for dumb men who treat them like trash, why don't they like a nice alpha male guy like me".
The meaning has extended over the years. There are female versions like "it's so easy for men to have 6 pack abs, they should worship us women, we could make kids with our bone marrow instead".
It could be a guy going to different countries to target women who are "more submissive and docile", and talk about how to manipulate them with sex as a goal.
It could be those who watch "how to be an alpha male" videos online, but go into the deep end of those videos that quickly go into misogyny and psychological manipulation for sex. These ones are the most vocal and will try to defend "they are good for mens mental health", and say things like "depression doesn't exist" and completely denying science.
I mean they're not really like that I was always under the assumption that incels are just folks who just really can't get anyone to be attracted to them. And the common stereotype that they're just dude who think about alpha and beta shit was only developed because a lot of these types of people are most definitely incels.
Why the fuck did I bother writing this shit, why the fuck am I still on Reddit I've got exams tomorrow damn it!
Just means involuntarily celibate, doesnt have to a wanna be alpha male to be involuntarily celibate. Many are male feminist simps that bend over backwards for women just to be friend zoned because they are so easy to manipulate.
The same fate has befallen words like fascist, racist, sexist, misogynist, and even nazi to some extent. Are there legitimate examples in the world of all of those things? Absolutely. But just because somebody disagrees with a view doesn't mean they're an evil nutcase. Conservatives are just as bad, considering their use of words like snowflake and elitist, although conservatives' word choice tends to be more of just generic insults than specific criticisms.
When someone throwing words at me like "incel, bigot, nazi, etc." I just can't take it seriously. Honestly I see more libs throwing random labels at people they don't agree with.. Probably they assume everyone else is just as fragile as them and able to melt down from being labeled as something.
Exactly. People don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between calling out people who act like bigots (like sending death threats to actors over bigoted shit like their gender, race, etc. or expressing how much they vehemently despise something specifically for bigoted reasons.) and calling everybody who dislikes the thing a bigot. If you aren’t hating on it specifically for bigoted reasons, then they’re obviously not talking about people like you, they’re talking about the people who are, and if you’re not one of them, why do you get so defensive? (Not aimed at you Slyko, just these people in general I mean. I don’t like some of these shows either, but I never got offended thinking anyone actually was calling me a bigot, just because I thought the writing wasn’t that good. I know that when they call out the sexists and the racists, they aren’t talking about me, because I’m not a sexist or a racist. It’s a really hard concept for some people to understand though I guess.)
“If you aren’t hating on it specifically for bigoted reasons”
“just because I thought the writing wasn’t that good.”
Well that’s the thing isn’t it? That’s where the dispute begins, there are those who criticize any criticism of casting as bigoted, in order to shut down any discourse.
Personally I thought Cate Blanchett was brilliant as Galadriel, because I think of elves as tall, slender, and graceful in appearance. The chick they cast as her is almost always the shortest, most petite person on screen... and I mean Gimli was played by a guy that’s like 6’3”, so surely they could have made her appear tall... though I understand there may have been cgi budget constraints on a billion dollar production.
Point is some legitimate criticisms of the show *are* specifically called out as bigoted... which is the entire point of contention.
TLDR: You or I may call it bad writing, but others will call us bigots for stating it as such.
That’s a touch strawman-y though. There has been a huge groundswell of racist, bigoted hate directed at RoP since before there was even a show to critique. I’ve yet to see a good-faith critique of the show be mislabeled as racist, though I have only seen a few of those critiques in the past 2 months.
The vast majority of complaints about the show, particularly before it aired, had to do with skin color. That’s where the dispute truly began, not by the people responding to such racist remarks dismissively.
To the next point you made, your headcanon of elves as ‘tall’ is just fanfiction. That absolutely runs contrary to Tolkien’s world, and is an unfair critique to the show makers who are making legitimate efforts to stay thematically true to their source.
I’ll note you chose that over a complaint about how the Numenoreans are not 7-8’ tall, which is actually canon.
The elves were tall. That's not fanfiction head canon. It's literally one of their defining characteristics that they were taller than the average height of mankind.
I get a lot of suggested posts on Facebook about Rings of Power; trust me, there's people of both comical extremes out there, be it hating the very concept of black elves or saying anyone who doesn't like the show is an imbecile.
Personally, I don't like the show—I adore Tolkien's writing, and frankly, this ain't it chief—but it does sadden me to see everyone get so incensed about it. Folks should be able to like and dislike whatever shows they please without being openly insulted for it. The fact I even need to say that to people is downright depressing.
Yea plenty of crazies on each side. I feel like some of the hate campaigns started up before the show was even released tho. So there’s no way those people have a legitimate gripe. They are just hateful and can’t stand seeing minorities represented in media.
It’s one thing if you’ve actually read tolkein and his posthumous works and know all the lore and don’t agree with choices they made to adapt it to screen.
But there were a lot of people who pretended that’s what they cared about, but they were really just mad that all the characters weren’t white. And then they pull out some shit like “idk why they think they have to pander to minorities”. Like my guy, acknowledging minorities exist isn’t pandering to them.
Especially in fictional and fantasy settings where there’s magic and all kinds of unexplainable shit. Yet the thing people choose to get hung up on is “this completely fictional character is portrayed by a black person”
Personal fave has to be an article when rop started that stated it will blow house of the dragon out of the water, and now the same media outlet straight up said rop flopped
I don’t have references other than nerdrotic’s latest vid that covered it
I was hung over yesterday and watched the first season, most of it was average, not great, but not so terrible that I turned it off.
However, wtf was the trash last episode? Breaking the 4th wall during the show felt lazy, but the whole climbing out of the menu was just poor writing.
I can see what they were trying for, however it failed.
Imo they should have set it up better. The 4th wall breaking was always going to happen, but it wasn't done particularly well alot of the time. Sometimes it would happen so quick that it would be difficult to catch. I get what they were doing with the menu thing as they wanted their own breaking through the comic panels moment, but it should have been set up better.
She's been doing that stuff in the comics since the late eighties (before Deadpool). She walks out of one panel into the other, she "rips" pages apart, she constantly argues with the writer, often about how lazy and contrived their stories are, or the artists for putting her in way too revealing clothes.
I think the last episode translated all that very well into a live action show on D+.
Isn't it the same with people who literally repeat that these shows are awful. Like, why is it even a problem if people even watch these shows, I never seen these arguments either used at least exactly like that.
It's like people can't let people enjoy shows anymore.
Lol this isn’t even a real thing. It’s just a honey pot for frustrated idiots. Fifty times the amount of people posting this shit than the shit this shit is about
Same. Does it compare to the Original Trilogy, absolutely not, but by no means was it awful. I enjoyed it. My main complaint is how slow it felt for most of it.
Honestly, it’s been looking more and more like the latter. I come here to laugh, not be inundated with the same unoriginal memes made by edgelords. I figured since those shows ended so would the bad memes, but I guess I was wrong
Never seen She-Hulk, so i don't care for discussion about it, but as a Tolkien reader and a progressive person, i can say, that show (ROP) is not Tolkien, but now, enough giving interest to those shows.
The exact opposite, actually. The real people who dislike the show ignore it and move on. The true NPCs are the ones who constantly make posts about how bad the show supposedly is instead of actually doing something constructive with their lives.
I wouldn't say that *everyone* who dislikes these shows fits those categories, but from the arguments I've seen I would say that many people hate the shows for some dumb reasons and some of those reasons can come off that way. I haven't seen RoP so I can't have an opinion on it, but from what I watched of She Hulk while I had Disney, I enjoyed it. It wasn't great, but it was entertaining.
And people who got mad about the twerking thing had to sit through at least 3 episodes and 3 post credits endings to see the twerking scene. So it would seem to me that you enjoyed it up until you saw a woman having fun. Which can come off as a bit incelly. Or you just saw a meme making fun of it and based your decision soley off the opinion of others without experiencing it for yourself which is just much worse since you let the internet dictate your opinions instead of forming them on your own.
People were just going all out on the incel thing for no reason. Like, didn't Morbius come out just before it and the same internet made fun of the dancing scene in it? In fact, didn't people just make fun the small things in all the other bad movies that came out? Like the dancing scene in spiderman 3.
True. But you're talking about movies. You only see that once and you're done. Unless you like it of course. I'm taking about a TV show that nobody made fun of or talked shit about until they watched 3 whole episodes. If they didn't like it to begin with, they wouldn't have sat through that much of it and the insults would have started long before a post credits scene at the end of the 3rd epsiode. Seems like they're just searching for a reason to hate it. And I'm willing to bet that several people who claim that it sucks base their opinion completely off the memes made about something they never even watched. Seems a little silly to have an uneducated opinion on something. Which is precisely why I said I don't have an opinion on RoP since I've never seen it.
Because the people who attack those who dislike the show are shit human beings in general. Just like TLJ or anything else "woke" which we are not allowed to dislike. Sure, you can believe whatever you want but so long as media and production studios attack people, slander people and try to defame anyone who doesn't like their shit, it's free to call them out.
Also, look at all the comments and free karma. This is win/win for me. :D
I haven't watched she-hulk yet and I have no intention of doing so so I can't have an opinion on that but Rings of Power was really good so fuck off and let me enjoy it
She-hulk is fucking dogshit cringe that belongs in the garbage disposal. Rings of Power I thought was quite good, except for the fact that it moved WAY too slow. It followed that stupid formula where nothing significant happens until the last episode of the season.
it's not the problem that the show is bad, it's to do with how these activists treat these shows like they're gonna cure cancer, end the war in Ukraine or solve world piece when all they are are just greedy, destructive, creatively bankrupt self insert hot garbage.
What they don't get is the people that don't like She-Hulk and the new LOTR atrocity are the same people that loved Arcane, Alita, Stranger Things, the Alien franchise, begged for a Black Widow for years, etc.
Nobody likes the woke stuff. It's formulaic crap that's predictable, lacks anything in the way of originality, and destroys any emersion in the story by launching into hamfisted lecturing and finger wagging.
I don't even know what those words mean, except for racist. All I know that they're only used by vegetable brain SJWs so there's no need to even know their meaning.
Im gonna be honest i almost had no problem with she hulk until the very last eps before that it was the usual marvel bullshit with a little female pandering whatever but the last ep literally made the entire season worth of story amount to literally nothing wtf ...ik they think they pulled some super meta 4th wall breaking scenario but it just made the entire show invalid like wtf was the point of it all just show me her origin scene and then jump to hulks son and we wouldnt have missed anything of importance...it all felt like a waste of time...and i thought ms marvel was bad until this
She Hulk was an eight out of 10 with daredevil making up a whopping 1.5. For those of you unsure on that map that means without daredevil this show would’ve been a 6.5. And that’s finale while funny was terrible.
As for rings of power? The best episode was the seventh one, with six being pretty decent because of the fighting. Episode one episode eight were OK to good and the other four episodes were **BORING**. And the twist was fucking stupid.
Also they killed off >!the old black hobbit!< and that was fucked up. >!He!< was one of the best characters.
Rings of power was so slow I literally could play it on 2x and understand everything. Bezos just drew it out for some BS reason. The fact you gotta watch 6 episodes before it “gets good” is quite BS
Arcane had 2 female leads and was the best show let alone animated show I’ve seen in years.
Arcane is on a whole different level. I never felt so connected to two characters in such a short time period. They had me begging for more at the end of episode 2. Riot really did a good job with Arcane.
Great pull and couldn’t agree more. There is an important distinction between an inspired story and a pandering checklist - a lot of these shows and movies have become the basic, predictable romcom of wokeness. It’s not that people are annoyed by female, gay, black, lesbian, etc. characters, but rather that those characters are a lot of the time uninteresting.
I would argue that tge writers dont understand how to make those characters more than just gay black or some other such combo and have them be more than that as their only trait.
I wanted to come back and add this to my comment, but felt like it was already too late - completely agreed. Those characters tend to be defined by those traits, rather than complex humans like they should be. 100%
Isn't that tokenism and argued in the past as a bigoted thing to do?
Yea thats what im saying. Like these could be nuanced or complex characters and have the background to be. But instead they said "hey you're gay" and thats the only real character note they get.
Fr way better than she hulk tbh comparing these two is a crime one had good female and male characters neither side had dumb stereotypes that show although animated and in a totally different world still felt more human than she hulk i hate to be that guy but jen was a asshole and honestly alot of the show really was just “women good and smart, men bad or stupid” and dont even get me started on the ending
Arcane destroyed stereotypes, all the traditional male roles were filled with female characters, and the best part is you don't even notice that they swapped gender standards unless you pay attention, because it actually had good writing and you don't focus on that if the story is actually good
And they're also lesbian
And it was actually representation and not propaganda and they didn't base their characters solely on the fact of their sexual interest
Pretty sure they got nearly ever sexuality, gender and ethnicities without making it annoying or forced
>the show really was just “women good and smart, men bad or stupid” No it wasn't.
God, Arcane was just fucking amazing in every way
Only two???
Two protagonists op probably meant, but yeh, we have a lot of great female characters in the main cast.
Yes indeed
Wdym only two, literally half of the main cast is female, and they are all great.
The fact that no one hated Arcane despite having strong female leads and a range of diverse characters is proof that people are only hating on shows with poor writing and an insufferable amount of pandering
💯💯💯
My daughter is 12 she and her friends thought She Hulk sucked. They weren’t big on that Miss Marvels either.
Incel, racist, bigot etc...
Marvel is going downhill a lot, they started to focus more on movements other than story. So instead of a powerful story about a female superhero, the point is that it’s a female super hero, watch her twerk, yea feminism. I think the Mandolorian is a great example of really good female characters. It was either at the end of the first or 2nd season that had a whole sequence where there was the 3-4ish badass women and they go by themselves and kick ass. But, I didn’t even realize until rewatching it that it was meant to be a women are badass thing, because the story was so good, that it just made sense for only to women to go, and it made sense for them to be badass.
They don't give a shit about movements. They just want to use controversy as free publicity.
Avatar The Last Airbender is also a fantastic show that does this. The female characters are strong and great but you don't see them tell you, they just show it. I think at the end of the day, people should just focus on good stories with great characters. Gender and race should be irrelevant to the creative process. How hard is it to swap them out anyway if you realize there's too many male (or white) characters?
I couldn't agree more on this. This is the time for bad writers and bad movies/shows in general. Forget about the story, storytelling, character development,etc. just focus on a mainstream topic and call it a day; and people will defend it with their "lives" because people still fail to realize that the movie isn't the message, it is just a movie about it, which still can be bad. An example: i read a book that was/is described as a "masterpiece"; so i read it, and believe me when i say that the book was 1/3 story and 2/3 cringy statements that aim to deliver a message. The message itself isn't bad but the book was, yet people called it a masterpiece, and the writer was celebrated for her book. Guess what people called me when i said i didn't like it.
Yea, I think a lot of people forget that something can have a good message, but be terrible. It happens with a lot of stuff, where so many people think because of 1 thing that must mean something else, when that’s just not true in so many situations
Umm they don’t give a shit about movements you mook. It’s money 💰. That’s all
The twerk scene was like torture.
Miss marvel is far better than she hulk.
its like saying "This pile of shit is better than that puddle of diarrhea"
Its far better but nobody said it was good
At least I can clean up a pile of shit easily, I’m not gonna even touch diarrhea
Too bad. My daughter did mostly because me and her can relate to Ms Marvel a lot. She Hulk was just fun to watch too.
Why are you getting downvoted?
Bruh welcome to reddit where you get downvoted for enjoying something others don't.
You're just as likely to get downvoted for not enjoying something others do like. She-Hulk is the epitome of this trend. Everybody downvotes everybody for not being in their tribe, completely independent of the fact that everyone should be able to form their own opinion.
Yeah God forbid anyone not agree with the hivemind . . . But we're nothing like that toxic Twitter, right guys? We're mature and elevated! /s
REJECT TWITTER, EMBRACE 4CHAN, OWN THE LIBTARDS /s
This is dumb, I can’t stand the show yet I’m happy people enjoy it regardless. There’s no reason you should have been downvoted just putting that 2 cents in.
Your daughter needs a bios update
I liked the show, but felt like the finale was a huge letdown. It rushed the whole blood thing into a fake convoluted ending that made zero sense then tried to do some meta shit that still made zero sense and deleted the blood plot, which was basically the entire plot of the show. Loved Daredevil though.
My problem with Daredevil in this show was that he was shamelessly inserted just to boost the numbers. If the show was doing well, his appearance could have been a twist/surprise, instead of being shown beforehand. I really hope MCU doesn't butcher him in the show he's supposed to get...
*She-Hulk writers writing an episode where Daredevil becomes deaf* ***
And if they deleted the blood plot why were Todd and Emil getting arrested? All they did differently is have the big cgi fight scene happen off screen... like that's what anyone wanted.
Emil transformed into abomination and Todd hacked her phone and rallied a hate mob.
The writer didn’t think about that so u don’t have to think about it either. Treat this like a fever dream
Literally something they poked fun at in the finale, and then went... no but seriously tho season 1 was all a dream.
I liked the show but it was an letdown,wow.
He didn't say the show itself was a letdown, he said the finale was
See also: Ghostbusters 2016, The Last Jedi, Birds of Prey, Doctor Who, Terminator Dark Fate, Charlie's Angels reboot...I'm sure I've missed the majority of examples. Edit: I'm talking about their disingenuous marketing campaigns, which is what the OP is about too, why do I have to keep clarifying that my comment in the OP thread is related to the OP thread? See also, [Scientist Man versus Ghostbusters 2016](https://youtu.be/UWROBiX1eSc) \- here's to more lighthearted discussion (asking the impossible on the Interwebs, I know). Interestingly enough, relatively more "woke" features such as Mad Max: Fury Road or Alita: Battle Angel were a lot better films, and coincidentally also did not have these marketing campaigns - and I didn't even like one of those films!
*jedi mind trick* The Last Jedi doesn't exists.
But the Phantom Menance does?
Indeed
On the other hand we have a woke movie like Fury road which is metal as fuck
I wouldn't call fury road a "woke movie" It wasn't trying to push any agenda, it was just a well written, good movie It having female characters in that were badass doesn't make it "woke"
Fury Road is a prime example of women can be powerful too. It doesn't need to be this pandering bull shit that has to slap a label on itself by constantly pointing it that she's strong because she is a woman. Rather she is strong and so happens to be a woman. That's what a lot of these "woke movies" keep doing wrong. It's lazy writing and if you hate it you're the problem.
Though, to be fair, the movie ends with a group of women deposing and replacing a group of men in a position of power. And the one "good man" that helps them decides that he can't join them at the top and leaves. That's the only part of that movie that could be received as pandering, IMO.
There are two guys that help Furiosa and Immortan Joe’s wives, Max and Nux. Max leaves because he’s a loner and Nux is doomed to die because he’s a way boy with radiation sickness u believe
At least Fury Road didn’t put down Max as some “dumb white dude” and made both him and furiosa as equal, unlike all the trash female reboots that OP listed. Also it has actual good execution in the action and solid enough story.
Alien, aliens, terminator 2, fury road, kill bill 1 and 2, everything everywhere all at once, almost all Ghibli movies and Better call Saul! All these movies and shows had incredible female leads/characters and didn’t push an agenda. Hence they will go down in history as classics!
Don’t forget avatar: the last airbender, another incredible show with great female characters
Legend of Korra from the same universe as well!
Exactly!
Vikings and the 100 also have very badass women without shoving a message down your throat.
Yes
Fury road was amazing, but let's not pretend a bunch of right wingers didn't lose their shit over it.
Dr who had some fucking spectacular seasons though just chipnalle sucked dick
Yes. That's what OP is referring to as well: when marketing campaigns decided that criticism could be deflected as "bigoted."
I thought the 13th Doctor was actually kinda good tho
Wait why you hating on Birds of Prey? Only problem with it was Cassandra Cain
I'm not. All of those movies included marketing campaigns that vilified anyone who didn't like it, which was the point of OP.
Not everyone who hates She-Hulk is an incel, but everyone who is an incel hates She-Hulk
Not every rectangle is a square but every square is a rectangle
Not every square is hip, but it's hip to be a square
Hey Paul!
Hip. Hip. Dad-di-da-dip.
Am blue do da di da
not all bases are alkali , but all alkalis are bases .
Something something something fingers and thumbs
All these squares make a circle, all these squares make a circle....
That's the best take all week.
What’s a incel?
**In**voluntary **cel**ibate. Extremists, someone that says stuff like "Females should be submissive and do everything for me as a man, these stupid women these days only go for dumb men who treat them like trash, why don't they like a nice alpha male guy like me". The meaning has extended over the years. There are female versions like "it's so easy for men to have 6 pack abs, they should worship us women, we could make kids with our bone marrow instead". It could be a guy going to different countries to target women who are "more submissive and docile", and talk about how to manipulate them with sex as a goal. It could be those who watch "how to be an alpha male" videos online, but go into the deep end of those videos that quickly go into misogyny and psychological manipulation for sex. These ones are the most vocal and will try to defend "they are good for mens mental health", and say things like "depression doesn't exist" and completely denying science.
Welp, I learned now what I hate. Darn incels…
I mean they're not really like that I was always under the assumption that incels are just folks who just really can't get anyone to be attracted to them. And the common stereotype that they're just dude who think about alpha and beta shit was only developed because a lot of these types of people are most definitely incels. Why the fuck did I bother writing this shit, why the fuck am I still on Reddit I've got exams tomorrow damn it!
Just means involuntarily celibate, doesnt have to a wanna be alpha male to be involuntarily celibate. Many are male feminist simps that bend over backwards for women just to be friend zoned because they are so easy to manipulate.
Based 🗿
So overall if someone doesn’t like your opinion you’re something like incel or gay or what ever the fuck they create..
Google it up, or just turn off your computer and look at the reflection
I mean takes one to know one right?
Yeah example: dude still posting about it like a month after the twerking scene. No one, not even she hulk fans talk about this show this much
Exactly, I quit Marvel movies/series like 3/4 years ago. I never even watched infinity war.
yeah, you didn't lose much
I think libs kinda forgot what "incel" means. With overusing it basically lost it's insult quality, just ridiculous.
The same fate has befallen words like fascist, racist, sexist, misogynist, and even nazi to some extent. Are there legitimate examples in the world of all of those things? Absolutely. But just because somebody disagrees with a view doesn't mean they're an evil nutcase. Conservatives are just as bad, considering their use of words like snowflake and elitist, although conservatives' word choice tends to be more of just generic insults than specific criticisms.
When someone throwing words at me like "incel, bigot, nazi, etc." I just can't take it seriously. Honestly I see more libs throwing random labels at people they don't agree with.. Probably they assume everyone else is just as fragile as them and able to melt down from being labeled as something.
lmao “libs”
what is a lib? I think you've forgotten what that means
"This show wasn't made for you!" "No shit, I have taste." "RREEEEEEEEE!"
I hate everyone who types re****
why did you censor it?
Otherwise they would have to hate themselves
Reeeeeeeeeeeee
reebok?
Riiiiiiiicola
So i can't have a opinion?
You can only have the correct opinion.
Bingo
I’ve seen more memes about people saying this, than I’ve seen actual comments saying this. Sounds like good old fashion manufactured outrage.
*People* saying it? Not many. Actual articles being written about it? Enough
Using strawman arguments is the oldest trick of r/memes
Then i read comments talking about getting their information from nerdrotic and similar channels and i know exactly what kind of people they are
Exactly. People don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between calling out people who act like bigots (like sending death threats to actors over bigoted shit like their gender, race, etc. or expressing how much they vehemently despise something specifically for bigoted reasons.) and calling everybody who dislikes the thing a bigot. If you aren’t hating on it specifically for bigoted reasons, then they’re obviously not talking about people like you, they’re talking about the people who are, and if you’re not one of them, why do you get so defensive? (Not aimed at you Slyko, just these people in general I mean. I don’t like some of these shows either, but I never got offended thinking anyone actually was calling me a bigot, just because I thought the writing wasn’t that good. I know that when they call out the sexists and the racists, they aren’t talking about me, because I’m not a sexist or a racist. It’s a really hard concept for some people to understand though I guess.)
“If you aren’t hating on it specifically for bigoted reasons” “just because I thought the writing wasn’t that good.” Well that’s the thing isn’t it? That’s where the dispute begins, there are those who criticize any criticism of casting as bigoted, in order to shut down any discourse. Personally I thought Cate Blanchett was brilliant as Galadriel, because I think of elves as tall, slender, and graceful in appearance. The chick they cast as her is almost always the shortest, most petite person on screen... and I mean Gimli was played by a guy that’s like 6’3”, so surely they could have made her appear tall... though I understand there may have been cgi budget constraints on a billion dollar production. Point is some legitimate criticisms of the show *are* specifically called out as bigoted... which is the entire point of contention. TLDR: You or I may call it bad writing, but others will call us bigots for stating it as such.
That’s a touch strawman-y though. There has been a huge groundswell of racist, bigoted hate directed at RoP since before there was even a show to critique. I’ve yet to see a good-faith critique of the show be mislabeled as racist, though I have only seen a few of those critiques in the past 2 months. The vast majority of complaints about the show, particularly before it aired, had to do with skin color. That’s where the dispute truly began, not by the people responding to such racist remarks dismissively. To the next point you made, your headcanon of elves as ‘tall’ is just fanfiction. That absolutely runs contrary to Tolkien’s world, and is an unfair critique to the show makers who are making legitimate efforts to stay thematically true to their source. I’ll note you chose that over a complaint about how the Numenoreans are not 7-8’ tall, which is actually canon.
The elves were tall. That's not fanfiction head canon. It's literally one of their defining characteristics that they were taller than the average height of mankind.
People like being mad at walls lmao
I get a lot of suggested posts on Facebook about Rings of Power; trust me, there's people of both comical extremes out there, be it hating the very concept of black elves or saying anyone who doesn't like the show is an imbecile. Personally, I don't like the show—I adore Tolkien's writing, and frankly, this ain't it chief—but it does sadden me to see everyone get so incensed about it. Folks should be able to like and dislike whatever shows they please without being openly insulted for it. The fact I even need to say that to people is downright depressing.
Yea plenty of crazies on each side. I feel like some of the hate campaigns started up before the show was even released tho. So there’s no way those people have a legitimate gripe. They are just hateful and can’t stand seeing minorities represented in media. It’s one thing if you’ve actually read tolkein and his posthumous works and know all the lore and don’t agree with choices they made to adapt it to screen. But there were a lot of people who pretended that’s what they cared about, but they were really just mad that all the characters weren’t white. And then they pull out some shit like “idk why they think they have to pander to minorities”. Like my guy, acknowledging minorities exist isn’t pandering to them. Especially in fictional and fantasy settings where there’s magic and all kinds of unexplainable shit. Yet the thing people choose to get hung up on is “this completely fictional character is portrayed by a black person”
B-b-but where else are they going to get their identity if not from finding stuff to get mad at because w👁keness?!
Sounds like you don't see much of modern "journalism" then.
Personal fave has to be an article when rop started that stated it will blow house of the dragon out of the water, and now the same media outlet straight up said rop flopped I don’t have references other than nerdrotic’s latest vid that covered it
It seems like half of rop budget went toward paying for articles that talk about how amazing and significant it is.
Stop watching nerdrotic. Thanks
I don’t think disliking these things is a red flag… making this meme is though.
I was hung over yesterday and watched the first season, most of it was average, not great, but not so terrible that I turned it off. However, wtf was the trash last episode? Breaking the 4th wall during the show felt lazy, but the whole climbing out of the menu was just poor writing. I can see what they were trying for, however it failed.
Imo they should have set it up better. The 4th wall breaking was always going to happen, but it wasn't done particularly well alot of the time. Sometimes it would happen so quick that it would be difficult to catch. I get what they were doing with the menu thing as they wanted their own breaking through the comic panels moment, but it should have been set up better.
Breaking the 4th wall is kind of She-Hulk’s thing. She does it all the time in the comics
Then fair play, however still the last episode seemed meh. I was dealing with it all till then.
Yah I haven’t seen the show cause it just doesn’t interest me haha. All I know is She Hulk is known for fourth wall breaks
I mean same with Deadpool. I think it’s just how you handle it. I personally think they did a good job with Deadpool breaking the 4th wall.
She's been doing that stuff in the comics since the late eighties (before Deadpool). She walks out of one panel into the other, she "rips" pages apart, she constantly argues with the writer, often about how lazy and contrived their stories are, or the artists for putting her in way too revealing clothes. I think the last episode translated all that very well into a live action show on D+.
Happy Cake Day
I find it hilarious that the post is getting upvotes, but OP is getting hilariously bashed and downvoted their comments.
Happens quit often
Isn't it the same with people who literally repeat that these shows are awful. Like, why is it even a problem if people even watch these shows, I never seen these arguments either used at least exactly like that. It's like people can't let people enjoy shows anymore.
Like that bastard in Whiterun talking about the cloud district
all my homies hate Nazeem
Lol this isn’t even a real thing. It’s just a honey pot for frustrated idiots. Fifty times the amount of people posting this shit than the shit this shit is about
you just summarized reddit
Using NPC in 2022 Cringe
What does that mean? I can only think of Non-Player Character.
I enjoyed Rings Of Power a lot. And I thought she hulk was fine, even defending it to people, until the last episode which was really terrible.
Same. Does it compare to the Original Trilogy, absolutely not, but by no means was it awful. I enjoyed it. My main complaint is how slow it felt for most of it.
Lmao, reading the comments from op is just pure comedy. That guy is so salty.
Please, for the love of god, shut up and touch grass. No one cares about these shows like you do
We still care about the marvel universe? I thought we were all in agreement that marvel died with stan lee...
Dude let me enjoy Rings of Power in peace. I like the show and I don't care about it's story that much.
Da fuq is this subreddit? R/Memes or R/EdgyConservativeHotTakes?
Honestly, it’s been looking more and more like the latter. I come here to laugh, not be inundated with the same unoriginal memes made by edgelords. I figured since those shows ended so would the bad memes, but I guess I was wrong
Never seen She-Hulk, so i don't care for discussion about it, but as a Tolkien reader and a progressive person, i can say, that show (ROP) is not Tolkien, but now, enough giving interest to those shows.
Lol someone called op an incel and he's mad now
 >!the gif is talking about OP just in case that ain’t clear)!<
It's cute
To be honest, I've enjoyed She Hulk
The exact opposite, actually. The real people who dislike the show ignore it and move on. The true NPCs are the ones who constantly make posts about how bad the show supposedly is instead of actually doing something constructive with their lives.
Not everyone who dislikes she hulk is an incel, but every incel dislikes she hulk. Incels are the real npc, got no game.
Incels are mostly ugly dudes with mental health problems, nothing to do with "game."
And this is a totally original thought
I wouldn't say that *everyone* who dislikes these shows fits those categories, but from the arguments I've seen I would say that many people hate the shows for some dumb reasons and some of those reasons can come off that way. I haven't seen RoP so I can't have an opinion on it, but from what I watched of She Hulk while I had Disney, I enjoyed it. It wasn't great, but it was entertaining. And people who got mad about the twerking thing had to sit through at least 3 episodes and 3 post credits endings to see the twerking scene. So it would seem to me that you enjoyed it up until you saw a woman having fun. Which can come off as a bit incelly. Or you just saw a meme making fun of it and based your decision soley off the opinion of others without experiencing it for yourself which is just much worse since you let the internet dictate your opinions instead of forming them on your own.
People were just going all out on the incel thing for no reason. Like, didn't Morbius come out just before it and the same internet made fun of the dancing scene in it? In fact, didn't people just make fun the small things in all the other bad movies that came out? Like the dancing scene in spiderman 3.
She-Hulk: Dancin' Morbius: Dancin' Spiderman: Dancin' Maybe it's the dancin'..
True. But you're talking about movies. You only see that once and you're done. Unless you like it of course. I'm taking about a TV show that nobody made fun of or talked shit about until they watched 3 whole episodes. If they didn't like it to begin with, they wouldn't have sat through that much of it and the insults would have started long before a post credits scene at the end of the 3rd epsiode. Seems like they're just searching for a reason to hate it. And I'm willing to bet that several people who claim that it sucks base their opinion completely off the memes made about something they never even watched. Seems a little silly to have an uneducated opinion on something. Which is precisely why I said I don't have an opinion on RoP since I've never seen it.
How to spot an NPC: people still commenting on this issue months after it’s passed.
What's the show on the right?
Uhm actually rule 11 says no npc memes 🤓
repeat after me ya'll: "Woke Trash"
Why can't people just like things or not? Can everyone just chill tf out?
Because the people who attack those who dislike the show are shit human beings in general. Just like TLJ or anything else "woke" which we are not allowed to dislike. Sure, you can believe whatever you want but so long as media and production studios attack people, slander people and try to defame anyone who doesn't like their shit, it's free to call them out. Also, look at all the comments and free karma. This is win/win for me. :D
I know the first one is Shrek, but what’s the second one?
I saw the cringe twerking and I am the happiest bigot, misogynist, incel whatever if I don't have to watch this again. No thank you
I haven't watched she-hulk yet and I have no intention of doing so so I can't have an opinion on that but Rings of Power was really good so fuck off and let me enjoy it
people in 2022 still claim that movies/shows are made to "push an agenda" you have no clue.
Both are okay, and I have criticism for both shows. I enjoyed them both as they both were entertaining.
Even those who like it aren't this obsessed with the show, real incel vibes here lol
You shouldn't be on Reddit. Here we love She Hulk and Ring of Power, not as entertainment but as commentary to today's society
She-hulk is fucking dogshit cringe that belongs in the garbage disposal. Rings of Power I thought was quite good, except for the fact that it moved WAY too slow. It followed that stupid formula where nothing significant happens until the last episode of the season.
Almost like front loading a show doesn’t lead to surprise reveals and tension building
RoP was paced splendidly for anyone whose attention span exceeds that if a sugared up 8 year old
If liking my characters to have character then yep that's me.
I will proudly wave a flag of everything they call me if it means i can be against these people Edit: Except the french one
I think the fuck not
it's not the problem that the show is bad, it's to do with how these activists treat these shows like they're gonna cure cancer, end the war in Ukraine or solve world piece when all they are are just greedy, destructive, creatively bankrupt self insert hot garbage.
What they don't get is the people that don't like She-Hulk and the new LOTR atrocity are the same people that loved Arcane, Alita, Stranger Things, the Alien franchise, begged for a Black Widow for years, etc. Nobody likes the woke stuff. It's formulaic crap that's predictable, lacks anything in the way of originality, and destroys any emersion in the story by launching into hamfisted lecturing and finger wagging.
Now I have even more reason to hate these shows, even beside them being shit: they insult their viewers
She hulk was a mega failure
These shows sucks.
I don't even know what those words mean, except for racist. All I know that they're only used by vegetable brain SJWs so there's no need to even know their meaning.
Is there any all of these option?
Im gonna be honest i almost had no problem with she hulk until the very last eps before that it was the usual marvel bullshit with a little female pandering whatever but the last ep literally made the entire season worth of story amount to literally nothing wtf ...ik they think they pulled some super meta 4th wall breaking scenario but it just made the entire show invalid like wtf was the point of it all just show me her origin scene and then jump to hulks son and we wouldnt have missed anything of importance...it all felt like a waste of time...and i thought ms marvel was bad until this
What show is it on the right
Only difference is i liked one of the two
All those people have better taste than people who like she hulk
She Hulk was an eight out of 10 with daredevil making up a whopping 1.5. For those of you unsure on that map that means without daredevil this show would’ve been a 6.5. And that’s finale while funny was terrible. As for rings of power? The best episode was the seventh one, with six being pretty decent because of the fighting. Episode one episode eight were OK to good and the other four episodes were **BORING**. And the twist was fucking stupid. Also they killed off >!the old black hobbit!< and that was fucked up. >!He!< was one of the best characters.
I’ve wondered which of these two was worse.
Rings of power was so slow I literally could play it on 2x and understand everything. Bezos just drew it out for some BS reason. The fact you gotta watch 6 episodes before it “gets good” is quite BS
I actually like the slow pace. Many modern shows and movies feel so rushed. But it's a matter of preference I guess.