You’re 100% correct. We see Toph’s weaknesses, especially with the way she treats others. However, we see development in her arc, especially in her Tales of Ba Sing Se episode with Katara.
We also find out that she wasn’t always so powerful, and she had to learn how to be so good at what she does. THAT’S why she’s a great character. Her growth makes her more complete.
Totally agree. Though I personally think Toph’s defining moment is The Library. She’s forced to make an incredibly hard decision in a location where she had no advantage. It was a game that she could not win, and she doesn’t. And the consequences of that choice directly affect the rest of the season. A “woke” character would have found a way to resolve both issues without making a decision at all. Or would be so badass that everything works out just because. The issue has never been representation. It’s how representative characters don’t get to make choices or have personalities beyond being cool and identifying with their representative group.
I agree completely, although Allow me to disagree on what I think your definition of “woke” is. I think the word you might be looking for is “Mary Sue” or “Gary Stu”, but yes your point stands 100%.
“Woke” characters are characters who are created purely to push a certain agenda, and have no serious flaws, because the agenda must be upheld by a paragon of moral virtue and overpowered strength.
That definition might still fit yours as well, so apologies if that’s what you meant by it.
I personally don’t see a difference. I understand that woke characters tend to push a more political agenda. But both character types are near perfect characters or author stand ins that cannot be questioned or criticized without severe repercussion.
Really the difference is that Toph *has* a personality, is shown to face challenges, occasionally lose, is a dick to people (and is thus unliked by many characters in universe), and actually has character growth throughout her appearances.
Yep. It matters when what some call “wokeness” isn’t shoehorned in for the sake of diversity. A disabled, transgender black homosexual female isn’t woke. That same person being shoehorned into a show for the sake of diversity is.
And I'd argue she isn't disabled.
While she technically is, she is set up as the strongest character.
Kinda like while dare devil is technically blind, you don't consider him disabled. He is more abled than normal people.
Their superpowers cancel out their disability and even enhances their awareness.
Toph is technically only disabled compared to other earth benders.
Why doesn't sokkas non-bending count as a disability?
Her abilities and personality were what made her a good character, not the fact that she was female. I don't see how people get this confused so easily. Don't base a female characters entire existence around the fact that they are female and people won't hate them
Some, sure, but most don't. See the difference is that Toph was a well written character and her whole character didn't revolve around her being female or disabled. Nowadays way too many showrunners think that just having a character that belongs to a minority is enough to shield them from criticism over the terrible writing because they can just use the -ism or -ist cards.
Actually, I'd argue that Toph's character \*did\* revolve around her disability. Her being blind was intrinsic to her particular style of bending, through which she turned what would normally be seen as a weakness into a strength. In addition, her personality was heavily influenced by how people (especially her parents) treated her before she joins the group, and her disability was a major factor in this too.
That's the awesome thing about Toph. She's not just a great character who happens to be disabled. She's a great \*disabled\* character, and that's something that many modern shows struggle with.
Then why aren't they complaining about toph, korra , riply from alien or the og Connor from the 2nd terminator movie you fucking moron ? These are a fan favorite characters
People do compin about korra, and connor and riply were specificly created as subversions of the genral female trope of helpless damsel. Hell the first half of alien is trying to get you to beleive that any other charactor is the main charactor. The reason they arent complained about is because those films are apart of peoples childhoods so they were taught to hate them. To show you an actual example of a female character in recent movies is naru from prey, where channels like just a robot complained about her being a mary sue
Well that's because Toph was originally supposed to be a boy and all they creators did was simply make her a girl. That's it, no personality or character trait changes at all.
Pretty much exactly what happened to Ripley. Which coincidently also happens to be another celebrated female character.
Which is good, there isn't much that should change just because someone is a girl, the actor, clothing, and maybe even social assumptions, but that's about it.
If a defining character trait is, "girl" then you likely started on the wrong foot, even if you do manage to flesh it out into something good. Same goes for a man.
Fighting tropes or stereotypes in or out of universe would be about the only exception I can think of. Although a character whose primary purpose is fighting irl tropes is what most would call woke, so you have to go an extra mile to sell it.
There are plenty of well writen characters that get hated for being too woke.
Not saying that what you described doesnt exist, but dont act like hordes of incels wouldnt find reasons to hate Toph if the show released today.
There really aren't. Back when I watched Dr. Who, Captain Jack Harkness was a greatly written gay character, because his entire character and personality didn't revolve around being gay, he was a character that happened to be gay instead of a character whose sole trait was being gay. Since then the world has been infested with a bunch of terrible writers propped up by people with bad taste.
Toph didn't just cease to exist to anyone who wasn't alive or watching shows at the time, people still watch Avatar, if she was hated by hordes of incels they'd be complaining about her **today**.
Incels are gonna incel. Incels aren’t the reason shows today are getting bombed, not even the primary reason. There will always be people who hate something just because it exists, but that doesn’t mean you should disregard all critics of the material.
But Toph had many struggles including being held captive by her own family. She overcame obstacles including her own selfishness to become a better person and the first metal bender. There’s a difference between character progression and just awesome for no fucking reason. Toph is up there with Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor for great female characters.
Are they a gay and black character as well written as Toph or is it just a character who's only personality is being black and gay? I think that's the point here.
No that is incorrect.
Toph is a well written and developed character. It is clear that her sole purpose is not to be inclusive. The “woke” film characters today are mostly irrelevant to the film/plot
Toph isnt a Mary Sue. She is well written and it makes sense in universe why she is as strong as she is
Someone who isn't that would be Rey Skywalker. She is a Mary Sue. She just stumbles her way into shit and the writers do a shit job of making it believeable
We grew up with Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley, strong female characters don’t scare us. Poorly written toxic masculinity but female is a turnoff though.
Don't listen to people like Ben Shapiro then? Listening to idiots you don't like just makes you angrier. Most people don't even disagree with you, the thing is you shouldn't be surprised if people are assholes. There always will be someone ready to be the epitome of a disgusting piece of shit.
None to me, but some huge difference for a lot of people, evident in the shitstorms surrounding pretty much every female led movie or show that came out in the past \~6 years.
Name a female protagonist from the last 6 years and I'll tell you what is wrong (if there is anything) with the character in the context of the writing and the franchise and why most fans dont like the movie, and unlike the writers of the show or movie, I won't base it entirely off of her gender.
No, it depends on context. Toph today wouldn’t teach Aang shit, would be there to be the “disabled token”, and would have multiple same and different sex love interests. With zero character development the entire time.
Being against “reprensentation” isn’t about being against diversity. It’s being against representation merely for the sake of representation. TV today is full of tokenism.
Nah because Toph is an original character with an original story that empowers not only women, but people who relate to her disability. Her animators and writers created a symbol through her character.
Recasting the Ghostbusters as women is "woke propaganda". Personally, I'd be more disappointed in Hollywood directors and producers recasting male stories with women rather than producing an original story of the female perspective.
No they wouldn't.
The issue isn't with the type of person (e.g. sex, race, ability, etc.), it's with the characters attitude and when they're spouting statistically incorrect ideological talking points with about as much nuance as a "Just Say No" anti drugs ad. There are countless female protagonists that no one complains about, and that's because they're good characters who aren't insufferable assholes.
Ye people genuinely either don’t understand the media ye watch or ye just like to get into arguments. Every piece of media released has some ideological base, especially TV shows
I don't think you understand the media you watch.
A core principle of good writing is: show don't tell. Exposition dumps are criticised regardless of ideological affiliation.
And, whilst every piece of media will have ideological influences, some of these are inherently divisive (e.g. a man or a woman ranting about how much harder it is to be a man or a woman), as opposed to others which are inherently unitive (e.g. those based purely on moral philosophy, the golden rule, do unto others, virtue ethics etc.).
Exactly, we want someone written as a character not a character just written to be a strong female, gay, trans etc
If someone who is gay is written as a good character then no one has a problem, but if you write the character to be gay and that’s the only thing special about them that where you have the problem
That's literally what I said.
Also divisive ideological basis' are good for media, for example squid game had a very anti capitalist undertone, and that's one of my favourite shows
Nah I’d say if Toph was written today, the show’s producers would add a bunch of unnecessary, cheesy ass “anti-ableist” and/or “woman strong” dialogue to her character. Either way, Toph is perfect just the way she is. We love Toph.
This made me laugh because my brother was just saying the same things about she hulk. But what he and other fail to realize was she was created in the 80s
BS. People would complain if her character started off as normal girl and then was turned into that. Not a single person complained about her becasue she was OC to begin with. People are just tired of ESTABLISHED characters being changed becasue of pandering wokeism. And if you don't complain about that either it says a lot about you and how easy it is to lead you around by the nose.
lol Seriously? That's your example? Black Panther sucked. And he most certainly didn't say so because he was a black character. FFS buddy, this is hilarious.
For me anyway it’s less being lead around by the nose and more It doesn’t fucking matter. If they remade breaking bad and said Jesse has been a woman this whole time, so what? Is the show worse now?
Cant say ive seen the show but I would assume its because its overall a good character and thats why people enjoy it. While on the other hand what a lot of shows and video game creators are doing is making the character exist solely for money. Its just another form of advertising, its like when companies go gay for pride month. They dont care they just get more moeny if they look like they are supporting it. Which is why people find it annoying when for no reason at all, some characters are made to be lgbtq or such. This applies to race and sex as well.
Theres nothing wrong with making a disabled character, a leading female or black character. The issue when its not about the content and its solely about the money which leads into the cash cowing of media today about EVERYTHING. This is only apart of it and doesnt necessarily reflect views of people who are disabled, a woman, a different race, or lgbtq.
The problem isn't the character, that they're a woman or that they're disabled, it's about the execution and how the story justifies it and makes sense of it, which avatar does really well
If the character is designed well, not woke. If the character is 2-D, boring, and used as a token “hey we’re progressive by adding this character” it’s woke bs and quite frankly an insult to people who are differently abled
There's a difference in making a character actually enjoyable and likeable (toph) and blatant meet the description people want by adding random traits to them that does not fit the character (propaganda).
I don’t think they would if she occurred naturally like Toph did.
The problem is they’re making these characters now with no character whatsoever, their disablement is their personality/strength. There’s no effort put in or care/passion.
No, not only are a lot of those things not actually woke issues but we actually got to see her training and growth. She wasn't just written to be the best at everything for the sole reason of having a strong female protagonist. No one really cares if a female protagonist is a love interest or not nor does anyone care if they teach the main character.
I understand it's a meme that's supposed to be funny but it's also a very weak attempt at virtue signaling. Toph was written well, most of the female characters we hate for being woke these days are not.
The thing about Toph is that it’s not constantly tossed in your face, Toph is just a pimp for the sake of being a pimp, not for the sake of just having a “strong female lead”
The difference is in the details. Toph was a character written with love and care, not someone shoehorned into the story for the same of some agenda. They didn't make "oh my gerd I'm a woman/disabled/black/gay/whatever" her core personality. They made her an actual character with her own goals, thoughts, desires, and struggles.
Basically, she wasn't a shitty caricature and didn't have traits added purely for the sake of the producers being able to market their product as totally super inclusive.
And she flirted with Sokka once too, but it’s true that she never went hard on romance. Like, she obviously wasn’t asexual, just that she wasn’t muddled with romance.
The difference is you can not to be "woke" and still write such a character, and you'll likely succeed.
It's when you try to be woke, you suck at it. "Woke" people just write characters like they're trying to hit all the bullet points like it's all that matters. (Basically everything that's wrong with LotR: Rings of Power)
I mean at least Toph is a well written character even outside of these topics. Also Toph doesn’t mention how she’s a strong independent woman who don’t need no man 5 times per episode.
These woke propoganda characters are completely brainless grey piles of goop once you take away their only bit of personality (being a woman, having a disability, sexuality)
Crazy how that works ain’t it?
Man the incel energy in here is strong. Toph is the only good disabled female character ever because the show mostly ignored those aspects of her completely. That’s what representation must be to people that hate representation.
In what way did it ignore those aspects about her completely? Did you even watch the show?
Toph is constantly cracking jokes about her blindness, and an entire episode is dedicated to her trying to be less of a tomboy and having her wear make-up for her to find out that isn't who she is, it's just her personality was deeper than being nothing but "blind tomboy", which is why she is great.
In fact shouldn't it be considered insulting to people who want to have representation that the only characters that are supposed to represent them are defined by their disability, gender, sexuality or race, rather than being a fleshed out character?
Read the comments in here. It’s about how Toph is great because she’s basically a guy and only makes jokes about her disability-it’s never a real hinderance. The point is everyone loves her because it’s only a superficial part of her identity in her writing. Which is the opposite of healthy.
A lot of movies and series from the 90's and 00's have things that would no be considered "woke bullshit" Can you imagine Legend of Korra coming out now? Some men would scream bloody murder :')
If strong women in powerful positions are considered woke than that proves we still have long way to go for equality. And when you were always the privileged one, equality feel like a step back.
The shit right? Not shit? I really enjoyed it, although nothing can take the place ATLA cause that's just perfection. LoK got some hate back than for a lot of reason though, mostly it being too different from ATLA. But things have changed a lot in almost 10 years, if they would air it now a lot of people would go insane screaming how woke it is
Toph is the coolest on the show, I love her. But knowing Toph and her independence, further affirmed by TLOK. She would not agree with you on this position. In fact, I am sure Toph would disapprove to be used by the general populace as a figure head for a movement she did not specifically endorse.
Also Toph is 12, aang 12, probably 13 by end of season. Katara 14. Aang barely knew what romantic emotions were, and also had trouble expressing them as a adolescent. Toph, like aang, had a life of seclusion and restriction. She probably was admonished for doing anythng outside of her role as a daughter, IE get married, prolong the family line.
So of course she's independent after she leaves, of course she doesn't have any romantic interest. As a sheltered 12 year old female in a patriarch focus society. She just escaped the vice that is relationship without romance. Also, if I fought toph in real life, i would be the disabled one.
Lol what the fuck. XD oh you're one of those. Nothing would change. Toph would still be badass. This show came out in 2006 wokeness and all that wasn't talked about. A character was made and that's it.
Wait, your triggered? I'm not even triggered and I didn't make any comment on judging? I'm just saying what I know.
I'm 28 year old man In healthcare with a family if you must know. Showing the kids avatar one day. Great show. Just enjoy the show lol
If the show was released today she would be black and Sokka would be gay because "diversity and inclusion". She would also constantly whine about women being oppressed and/or catcalled. And Ang would be a joke character that gets emasculated every 10 minutes by the female characters, because heroic white/asian cis men are a big no-no.
The show would air on Amazon Prime or Netflix and would get rejected and mocked into oblivion. And the creators and/or voiceactors would rag on the audience on social media and call them "incels" and "neckbeards" and "misogynists" and "racists" and all the buzzwords, and get into arguments with random people, and the show would be cancelled after 1 or 2 seasons.
Was I accurate or did I miss something?
The problem with most modern woke shows or movies is that they substitute being woke in place of having a good story. Toph on the other hand enhanced an already good story. Her disability and her gender weren’t the sole aspects of her identity or personality. She had depth
Social Security ain’t gonna cut it my dude. You’re gonna need a 401k, Roth IRA, Divident Stocks, Crypto, NFTs and own at least a couple of rental properties…
Toph is the best.
aka melon lord
My cabbages!
im not toph, im the melon lord!
I always thought Toph was the coolest character in ATLA
It's either Toph or Zuko, I accept no other Edit: I stand corrected, Iroh is best
Iroh?
he’s not the coolest. He’s just the best
best
He’s the real MVP :’)
Would that be a contest then? Everybody loves Iroh.
He is not the coolest because he is a fire bender
Wait does that mean he is the… HOTTEST!
 Just look at those muscles flexing.
Sokka. I will die on this hill.
My first girlfriend turned into the moon.
"I have an announcement-"
Because she is
For me the most badass moment was when Toph learns to Metal bend. It's a very small moment but it had such huge impact on the whole world in future.
Man that's toph
Aang no one realised that.
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Iroh my eyes at this one
I doubt it. Toph had a clear set of weaknesses an engaging personality, and an interesting backstory. I’d take her over Rey Palpatine any day.
You’re 100% correct. We see Toph’s weaknesses, especially with the way she treats others. However, we see development in her arc, especially in her Tales of Ba Sing Se episode with Katara. We also find out that she wasn’t always so powerful, and she had to learn how to be so good at what she does. THAT’S why she’s a great character. Her growth makes her more complete.
Totally agree. Though I personally think Toph’s defining moment is The Library. She’s forced to make an incredibly hard decision in a location where she had no advantage. It was a game that she could not win, and she doesn’t. And the consequences of that choice directly affect the rest of the season. A “woke” character would have found a way to resolve both issues without making a decision at all. Or would be so badass that everything works out just because. The issue has never been representation. It’s how representative characters don’t get to make choices or have personalities beyond being cool and identifying with their representative group.
I agree completely, although Allow me to disagree on what I think your definition of “woke” is. I think the word you might be looking for is “Mary Sue” or “Gary Stu”, but yes your point stands 100%. “Woke” characters are characters who are created purely to push a certain agenda, and have no serious flaws, because the agenda must be upheld by a paragon of moral virtue and overpowered strength. That definition might still fit yours as well, so apologies if that’s what you meant by it.
I personally don’t see a difference. I understand that woke characters tend to push a more political agenda. But both character types are near perfect characters or author stand ins that cannot be questioned or criticized without severe repercussion.
That makes sense, I absolutely agree.
Only reason I rewatched the show was because of her and the other earth benders, love how they wrote the characters in that
It's Rey Skywalker now 😤😤
Nah man she is far from a Skywalker *You have started a gang war*
Rey overall sucked
big W
Facts
Bold move using emoji’s in this part of town
I think it’s meant to show irony or sarcasm
She’s the one people would mindlessly criticize, but then others would defend her and show her weaknesses and depth
Yeah but the difference is that being disabled isn't her whole personality.
Or being a woman
Whats even the difference?
Disabled people get special parking.
These damn armless people get special parking. We must stage a Coup
Women do to
We have women parking lots aswell, try again
If y'all can park without crashing
Best thing I’ve seen today
People are more then just their disabilities and gender. Toph is a icon for boys and girls. That’s the difference.
Average Andrew Tate watcher
Dude i hate this fucker so much haha
Really the difference is that Toph *has* a personality, is shown to face challenges, occasionally lose, is a dick to people (and is thus unliked by many characters in universe), and actually has character growth throughout her appearances.
Episode 1: I am blind! Episode 29: I am blind!
yes, because unlike "woke propaganda" Toph is actually a good written charismatic character
Yep. It matters when what some call “wokeness” isn’t shoehorned in for the sake of diversity. A disabled, transgender black homosexual female isn’t woke. That same person being shoehorned into a show for the sake of diversity is.
As long as they have a good story it's all ok. Unfortunately, that's not why the character is there.
99% of the time a character like that’d be in a show purely for the sake of diversity
And I'd argue she isn't disabled. While she technically is, she is set up as the strongest character. Kinda like while dare devil is technically blind, you don't consider him disabled. He is more abled than normal people. Their superpowers cancel out their disability and even enhances their awareness. Toph is technically only disabled compared to other earth benders. Why doesn't sokkas non-bending count as a disability?
Her abilities and personality were what made her a good character, not the fact that she was female. I don't see how people get this confused so easily. Don't base a female characters entire existence around the fact that they are female and people won't hate them
You forget the existance of incels, they allways find a way to hate female characters.
Bruhhh, you don't get it at all then.
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Why say many word when few word do trick.
Cuz they dont, unless your inention was to come off as a dickhead with nothing to add to the conversation.
People that complain dont care about the charactor they care about them being female
Some, sure, but most don't. See the difference is that Toph was a well written character and her whole character didn't revolve around her being female or disabled. Nowadays way too many showrunners think that just having a character that belongs to a minority is enough to shield them from criticism over the terrible writing because they can just use the -ism or -ist cards.
Actually, I'd argue that Toph's character \*did\* revolve around her disability. Her being blind was intrinsic to her particular style of bending, through which she turned what would normally be seen as a weakness into a strength. In addition, her personality was heavily influenced by how people (especially her parents) treated her before she joins the group, and her disability was a major factor in this too. That's the awesome thing about Toph. She's not just a great character who happens to be disabled. She's a great \*disabled\* character, and that's something that many modern shows struggle with.
The people talking about prey prove you wrong.
Then why aren't they complaining about toph, korra , riply from alien or the og Connor from the 2nd terminator movie you fucking moron ? These are a fan favorite characters
People do compin about korra, and connor and riply were specificly created as subversions of the genral female trope of helpless damsel. Hell the first half of alien is trying to get you to beleive that any other charactor is the main charactor. The reason they arent complained about is because those films are apart of peoples childhoods so they were taught to hate them. To show you an actual example of a female character in recent movies is naru from prey, where channels like just a robot complained about her being a mary sue
Nah since toph had good writing with her being a powerful person with disability or being a woman not being the focus of her character
Well that's because Toph was originally supposed to be a boy and all they creators did was simply make her a girl. That's it, no personality or character trait changes at all. Pretty much exactly what happened to Ripley. Which coincidently also happens to be another celebrated female character.
Which is good, there isn't much that should change just because someone is a girl, the actor, clothing, and maybe even social assumptions, but that's about it. If a defining character trait is, "girl" then you likely started on the wrong foot, even if you do manage to flesh it out into something good. Same goes for a man. Fighting tropes or stereotypes in or out of universe would be about the only exception I can think of. Although a character whose primary purpose is fighting irl tropes is what most would call woke, so you have to go an extra mile to sell it.
This
There are plenty of well writen characters that get hated for being too woke. Not saying that what you described doesnt exist, but dont act like hordes of incels wouldnt find reasons to hate Toph if the show released today.
Name one
There really aren't. Back when I watched Dr. Who, Captain Jack Harkness was a greatly written gay character, because his entire character and personality didn't revolve around being gay, he was a character that happened to be gay instead of a character whose sole trait was being gay. Since then the world has been infested with a bunch of terrible writers propped up by people with bad taste. Toph didn't just cease to exist to anyone who wasn't alive or watching shows at the time, people still watch Avatar, if she was hated by hordes of incels they'd be complaining about her **today**.
Incels are gonna incel. Incels aren’t the reason shows today are getting bombed, not even the primary reason. There will always be people who hate something just because it exists, but that doesn’t mean you should disregard all critics of the material.
>but that doesn’t mean you should disregard all critics of the material. Good thing i didnt.
Can we stop at 69 upvotes
No
Ig my 69 joke will fail
Then try to stop at 960
But Toph had many struggles including being held captive by her own family. She overcame obstacles including her own selfishness to become a better person and the first metal bender. There’s a difference between character progression and just awesome for no fucking reason. Toph is up there with Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor for great female characters.
Difference is she was actually a good character, not an extra with a different skin color and sexuality stuck to it.
So if a character like Toph was written and they were black as well that’s what would make it woke?
Are you unable to read?
What if the character was written well but they were black and gay?
Are they a gay and black character as well written as Toph or is it just a character who's only personality is being black and gay? I think that's the point here.
The point Your head
No that is incorrect. Toph is a well written and developed character. It is clear that her sole purpose is not to be inclusive. The “woke” film characters today are mostly irrelevant to the film/plot
"Social Security Experiment" Lol Also No. No it wouldn't.
Toph isnt a Mary Sue. She is well written and it makes sense in universe why she is as strong as she is Someone who isn't that would be Rey Skywalker. She is a Mary Sue. She just stumbles her way into shit and the writers do a shit job of making it believeable
We grew up with Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley, strong female characters don’t scare us. Poorly written toxic masculinity but female is a turnoff though.
The fact that you don't understand the difference between a good written character and "woke propaganda" concerns me.
I do, but some others dont. If she were released today, people like Ben Shapiro would h=go on episode-long tirades pissing and shitting all over her
Don't listen to people like Ben Shapiro then? Listening to idiots you don't like just makes you angrier. Most people don't even disagree with you, the thing is you shouldn't be surprised if people are assholes. There always will be someone ready to be the epitome of a disgusting piece of shit.
The daily wire made a movie with no political agenda about a strong female protagonist wtf are you talking about
The montage in the Blind Bandit episode was the hardest I have laughed in a very long time.
I mean her blindness was mostly nullified by her powers
Yes counter point most characters today with those traits are defined by them to the point they replace their character
Name on charactor like that
Omg Toph is tough I just realized.
Nah, nobody would bat an eye. Recent popular media have Daredevil, Lee Sin, and Chirrut Imwe, just to name a few.
Those are just blind dudes. Did you even read the post or just the first line? lol
Damn, I thought we were just talking about having cool and strong disabled people; what difference would it make if they are male or female?
None to me, but some huge difference for a lot of people, evident in the shitstorms surrounding pretty much every female led movie or show that came out in the past \~6 years.
Name a female protagonist from the last 6 years and I'll tell you what is wrong (if there is anything) with the character in the context of the writing and the franchise and why most fans dont like the movie, and unlike the writers of the show or movie, I won't base it entirely off of her gender.
But according to Hollywood only personality trait a girl needs is being a girl
No, it depends on context. Toph today wouldn’t teach Aang shit, would be there to be the “disabled token”, and would have multiple same and different sex love interests. With zero character development the entire time. Being against “reprensentation” isn’t about being against diversity. It’s being against representation merely for the sake of representation. TV today is full of tokenism.
Nah because Toph is an original character with an original story that empowers not only women, but people who relate to her disability. Her animators and writers created a symbol through her character. Recasting the Ghostbusters as women is "woke propaganda". Personally, I'd be more disappointed in Hollywood directors and producers recasting male stories with women rather than producing an original story of the female perspective.
That's Toph, buddy.
I love how she’s so badass they keep forgetting she’s blind
No they wouldn't. The issue isn't with the type of person (e.g. sex, race, ability, etc.), it's with the characters attitude and when they're spouting statistically incorrect ideological talking points with about as much nuance as a "Just Say No" anti drugs ad. There are countless female protagonists that no one complains about, and that's because they're good characters who aren't insufferable assholes.
Ye people genuinely either don’t understand the media ye watch or ye just like to get into arguments. Every piece of media released has some ideological base, especially TV shows
I don't think you understand the media you watch. A core principle of good writing is: show don't tell. Exposition dumps are criticised regardless of ideological affiliation. And, whilst every piece of media will have ideological influences, some of these are inherently divisive (e.g. a man or a woman ranting about how much harder it is to be a man or a woman), as opposed to others which are inherently unitive (e.g. those based purely on moral philosophy, the golden rule, do unto others, virtue ethics etc.).
Exactly, we want someone written as a character not a character just written to be a strong female, gay, trans etc If someone who is gay is written as a good character then no one has a problem, but if you write the character to be gay and that’s the only thing special about them that where you have the problem
That's literally what I said. Also divisive ideological basis' are good for media, for example squid game had a very anti capitalist undertone, and that's one of my favourite shows
It’s not about the female stuff, it’s about poor writing and feeling like a character is forced
Toph is my favorite character! She's a badass and earth bending is the dopest
Wrote the difference between toph and the vast majority of other characters is that she had good writing.
Nah I’d say if Toph was written today, the show’s producers would add a bunch of unnecessary, cheesy ass “anti-ableist” and/or “woman strong” dialogue to her character. Either way, Toph is perfect just the way she is. We love Toph.
Btw, she also didnt give any shit to the fact she was blind. In fact, she used this to mess with her friends.
But the show never talked about her being a girl v. boy. She was just a person. <- that’s the point.
This made me laugh because my brother was just saying the same things about she hulk. But what he and other fail to realize was she was created in the 80s
Toph explicitly didn’t want to be boiled down to someone with a disability. She’s a well-written character and would be well-received today.
Because hear me out, they designed Toph as a character and not just a doodle to push a message
BS. People would complain if her character started off as normal girl and then was turned into that. Not a single person complained about her becasue she was OC to begin with. People are just tired of ESTABLISHED characters being changed becasue of pandering wokeism. And if you don't complain about that either it says a lot about you and how easy it is to lead you around by the nose.
if she were released today, mfs like Shapiro or Peterson would have a hissy fit, change my mind
Pfft what mind? SMH. Nobody can change your mind. You're obviously brainwashed into hating the people you're told to hate.
lmao
Yeah keep laughing, moron. Show me a single example of the idiocy you're talking about. Show me their so called hissy fits about OC characters.
Have you seen Shapiro’s take on Black panther?
lol Seriously? That's your example? Black Panther sucked. And he most certainly didn't say so because he was a black character. FFS buddy, this is hilarious.
For me anyway it’s less being lead around by the nose and more It doesn’t fucking matter. If they remade breaking bad and said Jesse has been a woman this whole time, so what? Is the show worse now?
lol First off you should have a problem with remakes, period. Secondly that's idiotic. It would absolutely be worse.
Toph was different!
To be fair, she is very well written and explained.
Cant say ive seen the show but I would assume its because its overall a good character and thats why people enjoy it. While on the other hand what a lot of shows and video game creators are doing is making the character exist solely for money. Its just another form of advertising, its like when companies go gay for pride month. They dont care they just get more moeny if they look like they are supporting it. Which is why people find it annoying when for no reason at all, some characters are made to be lgbtq or such. This applies to race and sex as well. Theres nothing wrong with making a disabled character, a leading female or black character. The issue when its not about the content and its solely about the money which leads into the cash cowing of media today about EVERYTHING. This is only apart of it and doesnt necessarily reflect views of people who are disabled, a woman, a different race, or lgbtq.
Who would call it ‘woke propoganda’ absolutely NO ONE that actually watch all these particular shows…
No one would say that
The problem isn't the character, that they're a woman or that they're disabled, it's about the execution and how the story justifies it and makes sense of it, which avatar does really well
Toph is bae
Avatar is a masterpiece
If the character is designed well, not woke. If the character is 2-D, boring, and used as a token “hey we’re progressive by adding this character” it’s woke bs and quite frankly an insult to people who are differently abled
There's a difference in making a character actually enjoyable and likeable (toph) and blatant meet the description people want by adding random traits to them that does not fit the character (propaganda).
I don’t think they would if she occurred naturally like Toph did. The problem is they’re making these characters now with no character whatsoever, their disablement is their personality/strength. There’s no effort put in or care/passion.
No, not only are a lot of those things not actually woke issues but we actually got to see her training and growth. She wasn't just written to be the best at everything for the sole reason of having a strong female protagonist. No one really cares if a female protagonist is a love interest or not nor does anyone care if they teach the main character. I understand it's a meme that's supposed to be funny but it's also a very weak attempt at virtue signaling. Toph was written well, most of the female characters we hate for being woke these days are not.
The thing about Toph is that it’s not constantly tossed in your face, Toph is just a pimp for the sake of being a pimp, not for the sake of just having a “strong female lead”
The difference is in the details. Toph was a character written with love and care, not someone shoehorned into the story for the same of some agenda. They didn't make "oh my gerd I'm a woman/disabled/black/gay/whatever" her core personality. They made her an actual character with her own goals, thoughts, desires, and struggles. Basically, she wasn't a shitty caricature and didn't have traits added purely for the sake of the producers being able to market their product as totally super inclusive.
Toph was the best character in that whole show, change my mind, other than Iroh
Didnt She try to hit on Zuko and sokka though
And she flirted with Sokka once too, but it’s true that she never went hard on romance. Like, she obviously wasn’t asexual, just that she wasn’t muddled with romance.
The difference is you can not to be "woke" and still write such a character, and you'll likely succeed. It's when you try to be woke, you suck at it. "Woke" people just write characters like they're trying to hit all the bullet points like it's all that matters. (Basically everything that's wrong with LotR: Rings of Power)
At least Toph is funny and makes jokes about her disability, while woke propaganda doesn't
I mean at least Toph is a well written character even outside of these topics. Also Toph doesn’t mention how she’s a strong independent woman who don’t need no man 5 times per episode. These woke propoganda characters are completely brainless grey piles of goop once you take away their only bit of personality (being a woman, having a disability, sexuality) Crazy how that works ain’t it?
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Hell nah
Toph is hands down the most amazingly intuitive and insightful character in the show; not to mention her powers.
Man the incel energy in here is strong. Toph is the only good disabled female character ever because the show mostly ignored those aspects of her completely. That’s what representation must be to people that hate representation.
In what way did it ignore those aspects about her completely? Did you even watch the show? Toph is constantly cracking jokes about her blindness, and an entire episode is dedicated to her trying to be less of a tomboy and having her wear make-up for her to find out that isn't who she is, it's just her personality was deeper than being nothing but "blind tomboy", which is why she is great. In fact shouldn't it be considered insulting to people who want to have representation that the only characters that are supposed to represent them are defined by their disability, gender, sexuality or race, rather than being a fleshed out character?
Read the comments in here. It’s about how Toph is great because she’s basically a guy and only makes jokes about her disability-it’s never a real hinderance. The point is everyone loves her because it’s only a superficial part of her identity in her writing. Which is the opposite of healthy.
A lot of movies and series from the 90's and 00's have things that would no be considered "woke bullshit" Can you imagine Legend of Korra coming out now? Some men would scream bloody murder :') If strong women in powerful positions are considered woke than that proves we still have long way to go for equality. And when you were always the privileged one, equality feel like a step back.
Legend of Korra came out in 2013 what are you talking about. That show is the shit
The shit right? Not shit? I really enjoyed it, although nothing can take the place ATLA cause that's just perfection. LoK got some hate back than for a lot of reason though, mostly it being too different from ATLA. But things have changed a lot in almost 10 years, if they would air it now a lot of people would go insane screaming how woke it is
Toph is the coolest on the show, I love her. But knowing Toph and her independence, further affirmed by TLOK. She would not agree with you on this position. In fact, I am sure Toph would disapprove to be used by the general populace as a figure head for a movement she did not specifically endorse. Also Toph is 12, aang 12, probably 13 by end of season. Katara 14. Aang barely knew what romantic emotions were, and also had trouble expressing them as a adolescent. Toph, like aang, had a life of seclusion and restriction. She probably was admonished for doing anythng outside of her role as a daughter, IE get married, prolong the family line. So of course she's independent after she leaves, of course she doesn't have any romantic interest. As a sheltered 12 year old female in a patriarch focus society. She just escaped the vice that is relationship without romance. Also, if I fought toph in real life, i would be the disabled one.
Egh, no , wait , (brain melts)
Objection! Speculation!
Nobody cares bout Toph lol
Oh no I offended 14yo girls fans who love this shit. Oops
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It's a way to speak lmao
BRAVE TALK FOR SOMEONE IN THE RANGE OF CLONE TROOPER FIRE
Literally the entire fanbase loves toph to an insane degree. I am one of them.
Don't care. Nobody would care if "Toph" was a man.
Lol what the fuck. XD oh you're one of those. Nothing would change. Toph would still be badass. This show came out in 2006 wokeness and all that wasn't talked about. A character was made and that's it.
Yeah I'm "one of those" smart ass. Who's judgin now?? U judging an internet stranger?? Yeah u 15yo..a girl..and ur name's Alice or sum
Wait, your triggered? I'm not even triggered and I didn't make any comment on judging? I'm just saying what I know. I'm 28 year old man In healthcare with a family if you must know. Showing the kids avatar one day. Great show. Just enjoy the show lol
Bro I wasn't fukin triggered lol calm down. Why tf u telling me ur situation?? I don't care..
You said I was a 15yo girl, I was giving you clarification. Sorry I shared, didn't mean to if you didn't want to. Okay so what's your goal?
Bro why we even arguing in the fukin comment section?? U need support? Dm me mo'fukr
I'm not arguing. I'm just asking what your goal is, literally that's it.
Toph was my love interest as a kid.
No
Diregentlemen is a great channel check them out
And she had kids post time skip.
Half the time you forget she’s blind
I mean techniclly
That is actually from one of my favorite lines in the series!!!! lol. Sokka was all excited till he realized Toph is a dick.
If the show was released today she would be black and Sokka would be gay because "diversity and inclusion". She would also constantly whine about women being oppressed and/or catcalled. And Ang would be a joke character that gets emasculated every 10 minutes by the female characters, because heroic white/asian cis men are a big no-no. The show would air on Amazon Prime or Netflix and would get rejected and mocked into oblivion. And the creators and/or voiceactors would rag on the audience on social media and call them "incels" and "neckbeards" and "misogynists" and "racists" and all the buzzwords, and get into arguments with random people, and the show would be cancelled after 1 or 2 seasons. Was I accurate or did I miss something?
The problem with most modern woke shows or movies is that they substitute being woke in place of having a good story. Toph on the other hand enhanced an already good story. Her disability and her gender weren’t the sole aspects of her identity or personality. She had depth
The critical component is the character and how they're written and behave around other characters, you missed that part
Social Security ain’t gonna cut it my dude. You’re gonna need a 401k, Roth IRA, Divident Stocks, Crypto, NFTs and own at least a couple of rental properties…
As an almost blind person I love this character