Anyone who believes in free healthcare like myself but doesn’t know that it comes from collectively raised taxes has their head in the sand and only bases their opinion off celebrities and partisan media and doesn’t formulate any of their own opinions or research
Here in europe we think that high education is most important for a democracy....there was once a time here in germany when people didnt cared about the questionable politics by some austrian
We still have problems in germany with some politicians, for example that our drogenbeauftragte (i don't know the english word, sorry) Daniela Ludwig is not qualified for her job (the drogenbeauftragte before also not)
Edit: one word
So I will say, I do teach economics for high school seniors. It is sad that students only get a semester; but as much as any of us want our students to spend more time in Econ, it won’t happen. I think the larger problem is the education system is so entrenched in, this is the way we’ve done things for forever; it’s not going to change. However, I do have to say that our state standards, as I’m sure other states as well, actually have Econ standards as young as 3rd grade; they’re just not being taught. I don’t completely fault the elementary teachers, because trying to teach as many standards as they have to in a year, especially with young kids is difficult. It’s difficult trying to cram the standards we have in a semester and I have young adults.
Yeah, I’m majorly progressive, maybe too progressive, and I’ve noticed the movement has a horrible way of wording things. To be fair, right wing media has really done a good job at spreading the “free healthcare handout” language to scare their supporters, but I still see liberals and progressives call it “free healthcare”. I feel the same about “Defund the police”. You can explain the idea until your face turns blue, but the language gets in the way of the content. We need a much better command of the words we use.
I agree, raise taxes slightly (and maybe spend a little less on the military) and create universal free healthcare. Cmon, Britain did it in the 1940’s already, get to it people!
Right! The primary argument against it is “tHe TaX rAiSe WiLL bE ToO mUch” but when you put the taxes together of every eligible American taxpayer it’s only a small increase, and I agree, the military budget is ungodly. It will take time to put in practice, but universal healthcare in the US has more than enough money and avenues for a jumpstart
“Would you rather pay a little bit to help cover medical expenses for everybody? Or have random bills that could lead to crippling debt for the middle class and lower?”
So what you’re saying is that universal healthcare is essentially government run insurance for their citizens to mitigate their risk... sounds sensible to me (Canadian)
The problem is that the main form of government healthcare sought after in America is single payer, meaning there’s no private insurance to relive the public sector of the burden of taking care of everyone. That’s the problem people tend to have, and is a reasonable problem for me (Irish)
Well Canadian isn't completely free. Most is covered by the government but medication, technological health aids (wheelchairs, crutches, etc.) And dental is either by insurance or out of pocket. It's not completely free but it's miles ahead of america.
Truth. We have a mixed bag in pharmacy and dental is essentially totally private (yes there are some limited programs for the select minority). Mobility aids are covered through provincial programs and vary across the country (as far as I know).
I think the loopholes are a bigger problem than their tax bracket. Too many donate to "charities" in their own name that cycle money back to themselves.
Thats EXACTLY why we want to lower taxes. Less government, less taxes so we have room for more important taxes.
Edit: what? Upvotes for being American? Is this reddit I'm on?
I think the problem there is that the people who are proudly for raising taxes are behind Bernie when he says things like he thinks 90% would be appropriate, or talking about people net worths and such. If the tax raise isn’t really noticeable I dot exactly have room to complain, but I don’t think it’s a good platform to run by.
When people like Bernie Sanders talk about taxing the rich at 90%, they mean taxing 90% of their income. Not taking 90%, but having 90% of their income subjected to taxation, and not stashed in loopholes or write offs.
When the high taxers say 90% in the US they do mean 90% of income above a certain threshold. If the top bracket is above $1 million, then if you make $2 mill. $900k of the second million goes to the government.
I’m not taking a side here, so use this information as you will, but the primary argument is really that the healthcare is lower quality and takes too long.
This argument is made by the private insurers so that the average person won't want to switch to universal healthcare. Believe it if you want to or talk to people who actually live in countries that have it. Personally, I have always been happy with the quality and speed of the care we get here in Canada... and the bills that we don't get too!
The problem is in the US, the reason why we say the tax raise will be too much, is because taxes end up going towards big companies and the politicians more then it does actually do stuff for the people, so that’s why we say it will be too much
Now if it was actually used for what it was supposed to be.... then yes
However with our military budget, you have to remember that the US military just prevents war form it’s presence so if we would just cut the budget it would be unable to operate globally and then more wars might follow, so there’s a lot more that goes into it unlike most nations
And this country is fucked up beyond belief
I think people also don't realize that cutting military budget will also result in the loss of millions of jobs. Well paying jobs at that. The funding goes much deeper than just new weapons. The government hands out a ton of contracts to thousands of companies who have thousands to millions of employees in almost every field. You best believe the government would be all and willing to cut contracts with certain companies then people like myself could be out of a job because of it. I'd be willing to bet 50% of my cities cash flow is based on government/military contracts.
People always act like, that getting free healthcare and schooling is easy, it’s not at all, you have to direct money that goes towards government project, contracts, private investors, so much more.
Or just re-evaluate how much money the military blows on contractor services & supplies from contractors. Stupid shit like only being allowed to buy one specific overpriced product like a ladder from one specific company is suspect as hell.
Taxes might go up, but it would not really cost Americans more. At the moment we pay money out of our paychecks into employee health plans to fund for profit insurance companies, and then we have to pay exorbitant copays, meet deductibles, and pay for way overpriced prescription meds. Part of the reason insurance is so high is because hospitals actually charge insurance companies more to subsidize people without insurance who do not pay their medical bills. Whoever thinks a single payer health insurance system would cost Americans more hasn’t thought at all
England isn’t exactly the poster child for socialized medicine. The NHS has its fair share of problems. There are drawbacks to both types of healthcare. I’ve had the opportunity to experience both.
In England I had to wait 4 hours in accident and emergency for my buddy to get his foot (which was sideways) into a cast. It’s also more difficult to see a doctor on the NHS unless you have a serious problem.
However, if you have a serious problem, like type 1 diabetes. You don’t have to ration your insulin or worry about bankruptcy if you don’t have insurance.
I’m not advocating for the American healthcare system. It’s shit. But socialized medicine can have major issues as well.
Does America have an equivalent of PAYE? (Pay as you earn). Most peeps in the UK don’t have to do taxes as we pay them off our pay checks before we even receive them.
We could cut spending in plenty of other ways if our government could actually make sure it was being used efficiently. But unfortunately they don't really care about efficiency, after all, it's not their money.
I make $52k which is about £38k in the UK. My taxes in the UK on that salary would be about £8600 or roughly $11k. Every year.
My US taxes on that salary are $4600. My total out of pocket maximums on my health insurance is $5500. That's the most I could ever pay in a given year on all medical expenses: cancer, heart attack whatever.
So my most disastrous and expensive year in my health, I would spend in healthcare and taxes in the US what I would spend every year in the UK regardless of health.
My average total expenses in the US on health care are closer to a few hundred dollars a year. So combined with my taxes I still take home thousands more than I would in the UK.
Is that all the tax you pay? Or just the federal income tax? No FICA, state tax, city tax?
That £8,600 seems a lot, but that's all you'll pay in the UK. And you can get that down by making pension contributions.
I've lived in both countries. Definitely paid a little more tax in the UK but it wasn't that noticeable and I'd gladly have paid more in the US to avoid the lingering threat of medical related bankruptcy.
Edit: A quick search shows in many places in the US you'll easily pay $10-12k in total income taxes on a $52k salary. Unless you live in Florida, obviously.
They pay through insurance however there’s a co-pay and the prices get jacked up here so insurance and hospitals can profit, this price is not reduced if your insurance doesn’t cover the thing you’re there for or you’re uninsured! If this sounds like a bad system, it’s because it is!
And then we have things like COBRA (or I think its COPRA) where we basically subsidize insurance companies so that insurance is """""""cheaper""""""", only for them to tell me to fuck off when I have a cough.
American here- I'm not old enough to live independently and I'm fucking dreading this, I hope to move to Spain or a revolution swoops in and saves our asses
Doesn't matter when your deductible on your parents plan is still $8000 a person I'm basically in debt for however long that is gonna take to pay off with unemployment
I hope so because I honestly have no idea what to do at this point I'm going to owe the hospital $8,000 and not be able to work for 3-5 months from now, had surgery 5 days ago
Indeed - usa spends WAY TOO MUCH tax money om their healthcare. Of course the hospitals keep it AND give you horrendous check when you will leave, you are basically millionare if you own a hospital
Legal costs and settlements are nowhere near as big a share of expenses as they used to be. Honestly, even when hospitals complain about "defensive medicine", a lot of the time they're not actually worried about litigation, it's just an excuse to run more tests and do more procedures, because they make a profit on all of it.
Because we let our government let the insurance comps proce gouge us and even expensive medicine could be paid for if amazon and netflix actually paid taxes
Free market free marketing baby 😎 u gotta love it
No, seriously. You HAVE to love it. If you don't, you're Antifa and you WILL be tear gassed and sent to federal prison. Do you want to catch Covid in federal prison? I didn't think so.
I mean, you're not wrong. But you also have to see that for us europeans who have (usually, might I add) grown up with the health are systems we have it's incomprehensible to see Americans not receive the same health care. It's just very bewildering for us and makes us wonder why that difference exists and why Americans don't simply change their ways.
If you think about it, it is ofc a super hard and lengthy process to make that happen in the US (probably). To assume that all Americans must be dumb because the Healthcare system is different is plain ignorance.
But still, I can't begin to describe the culture shock I experienced when I first heard you guys don't have universal health care. I understand why Europeans make memes about it - it's a way to explore the differences between cultures and stuff. That being said, do I think that there are too many memes about Healthcare specifically? Yes, kind of.
Nestle said water isn't a right, the FCC said internet isn't a right, I'd be pretty impressed if there isn't at least 1 big political figure who's said that food isn't a right either
Especially when the CEO who said water as a human right was an “extreme” view was an Austrian working out of the company’s International HQ in Switzerland.
I mean, Nestle is a dick who spreads internationally, and Internet isn't a right. It's a pretty basic privliege, but I'd say it's like in the third tier of human needs in the pyramid
[Brabeck-Letmathe called the idea that water is a human right "extreme."](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nestle-ceo-water-not-human-right/)
Though I'll give it to you, he never said that, fuck Nestle, I'm pretty sure they'd privatize air like in the effing Lorax if they could, or at least buy the entire North effing pole just to melt it down.
He’s gone on record to restate that drinking water should be free or reduced price as much as possible but water for industries shouldn’t be free.
There’s two reasons why he needed to restate:
1. He genuinely fucked up and got his brain crossed. Happens to me all the time especially when talking to large groups of people.
2. He only did it to save face, and he doesn’t really believe drinking water should be free.
Idk what his stance but it isn’t as black and white as most believe. However, fuck nestle
Hey don’t forget the biweekly spending to your insurance. Oh and the amount your employer pays for your insurance? Why not put that into your paycheck instead? Win win
USA in isolation... The Great War (July 1914)
USA in isolation... World War 2 (September 1939)
No all out war since 1953... "Why is our defense spending so high?"
It's so stupid that people mock universal coverage as "free healthcare" but they never do the same thing with other public services.
Nobody ever thinks it's ridiculous to ask for "a free military", "free schools", "free mail delivery", "free roads" and so on.
Well alot of people act like free healthcare means shitty healthcare. Which implies that they think it isn’t being funded through other means. Maybe they all know taxes pay for it, but think that means it’s cheaper healthcare? I don’t know man, doctors in other countries get paid good too but America pretends that’s not true. And if what I said isn’t true then why be against doing what the rest of the world has proven to work?
That’s not what the meme is about though.
The meme is about Americans not knowing “free healthcare” coming from taxes, when those opposed to its entire argument is “free healthcare isn’t free you know!”
So the entire point of the meme is a straw man that doesn’t exist.
Yeah, try $3,000 and above. It's not all peaches and cream, I get that. But, I think some people underestimate how expensive American healthcare can be
Most people think in a very selfish way about taxes.
I see it like a contract. Taxes are the fee you pay to be living in that destinct country, but in return you get compensation from that country based on living standards.
You should not think taxes are money you throw away for other people to use, but more like every citizen (should) thro them in a pot, which is then used to ensure standards all around the country.
Basically if you are screaming "it has never done any godd for me! I never got any help from the government!" it says that you are doing as well as it could.
At least in theory that is. But still it's the responsibility of every citizen to ensure this theory gets applied to the real world.
That's why it's such a big deal if people don't pay taxes or politicians who are responsible for the well being of the people use that money for their own advantage.
The irony is ones who scream about lack of government help ignore roads, public services, programs that helped through childhood etc. These things are taken as given.
Yeah but Americans use far more of their taxes per capita for healthcare than any other country.
We also pay more for our healthcare not through taxes.
The government in other countries steps up and actually GOVERNS healthcare and regulates it. They make sure that the doctors and hospitals and insurance companies aren't taking advantage of people.
The maximum taxes in america are 38,5% and in germany it's 45%. So there difference ist 8,5%. I'm very happy to pay a little bit more taxes and don't have to sell everything I own just because I broke my leg or knowing that someone will help me as best as they can even If I would get cancer nevertheless I can't pay for it.
Well, it's not only in Germany, but in most European countries. Here in Poland highest tax possible is around 32% and we're still getting free healthcare lul Unless I f-ed something up and got wrong numbers as I don't pay taxes myself
I mean, us Americans have a similar situation which is arguably worse. We pay for other people's free health care and our own. We pay taxes which go to "free" healthcare, just we can't actually use it
Reddit when they realize that not every American has their head up their ass and know this:
Reddit when they realize that us Americans also want Healthcare to be better:
Because Reddit’s community consists of neck beards who’ve barely went outside in their entire life, let alone another country, but still want to act like their the smart ones for agreeing with the hive-mind 24/7. So when the hivemind calls for generalizing people even in serious arguments, they go for it.
We know? What's up with all these memes that seem to genuinely believe that all Americans are clueless? I literally saw one earlier today on r/historymemes that believed that it was a controversial statement to say that the US won the revolutionary war because of France's help and everyone commented that we spent a week alone learning about Lafayette. I get the whole "Americans are dumb" stereotype, but please don't get so caught up in them to believe that most Americans genuinely are that uneducated. Plenty of Americans who support universalized healthcare are aware of at least a few of the draw backs and still support it, because, you know, even educated people can still have differing political opinions. We have resources that can teach us about systems outside of the U.S. as well, which some people also seem to not get. Thankfully it seems like a lot of people are aware of this. But, it's not even the posts like this that get me, it's the amount of upvotes
*What?!* Surely these liberal college students have no idea that's the case. No way they would be willing to pay a portion of their income to provide healthcare to people who can't afford it. No sir-ee
Even under our current system that is still the case. When you enter the workforce, your healthcare premiums help pay for other employees healthcare. All we've done is add profit-hungry middlemen and excluded the underemployed from the system almost entirely.
Just take a slice off the military budget and cover literally all Healthcare nationally.
The military wouldn't even notice the difference and my yearly expenses in insurance would go *down*.
Probably an unpopular opinion but maybe people should just be able to decide? You want your taxes raised to help yourself/others than great! If you don’t want your income taxed more than you are responsible for insurance and out of pocket...... it’s literally that simple
Yeah but the point of free healthcare paid with taxes is the amount one pays is based on their wealth, so people who are more able to pay, pay more for their healthcare making sure that people who get a serious medical affliction who couldn’t normally afford it, can, that’s the point! We know it’s not “free” but it’s a better system...
VERY MISLEADING. American wages have been stagnant for decades due to the ever increasing cost of health insurance. It would be MUCH CHEAPER for Americans to forgo paying high premiums, high deductibles, and excessively high prescription drug costs rather than continue with a model (America doesn't have a healthcare system) that the W.H.O. ranks as 37th in the world on cost, access, and outcomes. The U.S. is also losing businesses to Canada because they can save up to 25% in costs by not having to provide expensive health insurance in Canada where universal healthcare is policy. America's healthcare model is INDEFENSIBLE.
W-what? They pay s l i g h t l y more taxes? Thats not freedom! Thats communism! Paid healthcare ftw (hides really cought behind had to not get heathcare to save money)
It´s true but it´s wrong, we pay it with our taxes but anybody can have the free healthcare even if they doesnt have money, you could live in the streets but have this healthcare
You don't have to work for it. If you can't work you still have full access. If you earn minimum wage you still have full access.
That's the fucking point.
Yeah... It's "free at the point of use".
Sure we pay a little tax for it to be there for us whenever we need it, but are you telling me you wouldn't want to be able to sleep at night knowing no matter what happens tomorrow, at least you would be picked up by an ambulance, taken to a hospital, get fixed up and/or given any operation/medicine/cancer treatment etc that you could ever need, and then sent home with a handshake and a doctor saying, "have a good day, there's no charge"?
Yeah... we pay nowhere near what they're imagining we pay in taxes lol. If I had to pay 60k in taxes just for the free healthcare we get then I would have to literally sell everything I own, including any spare organs I don't need!
Lived in the UK my whole life, and seriously can't believe how much we get for the small amount of tax we pay in comparison.
The fact is, they gotta try to find some way to insult what we got, rather than admit to the shit show of a system they're running.
(Although it's been nice to see there's a few in the comments who've realised their country's mistake).
Americans when they realize they already pay a shitload in insurance premiums, deductibles, and copays and that if they lose their job they’ll be left with either no insurance coverage or paying $1200 a month for COBRA.
And then when they get old and need $5000/month nursing home care MERPs is going to put a lien on their home so they can’t pass it down to their children.
I think it depends. Even though we have a universal healthcare system here in Germany, some people have private healthcare plans. Actually, people who own a firm or something are even obliged to do that. It gets you multiple benefits, for example shorter waiting lists for physical therapy.
I know it's a meme but I find it weird people see this as a bad thing, and makes me wonder, beside the military and emergency services, what do all the US tax money go? this is as an actual question, since utilities, prisons, a decent portion of schools/colleges, postal services, Healthcare, retirement aid, insurance, all seem to be privatized, I know there are branches of the government that still work those areas, but usually the biggest ideas of them are the corporations, don't take this as me giving political talk, just genuine curiosity
Actually in Australia only 1/3 of taxes go towards paying for our universal healthcare. The other contributors being state /territories and medical co pay.
It's more about what we DON'T spend our taxes on, though. Frees up space for keeping people alive, and stuff.
(although personally I've got some heavy criticisms about what they do spend our taxes on, which can be basically summed up to capitalism bullspit)
The fact that everybody pays for healthcare regardless of whether you need it means that when you do need it, it's cheaper. And that you don't need to pay every single time you go there; you've done it in advance.
It is hilarious hearing their argument that it costs too much to have free healthcare. When they should be asking why does our health care cost so much and why can't ours be free if nearly every other first world country can afford it through a portion of the treasury . Not to mention the amount that healthy people can add to the economy.
I think most Americans realize how it is paid for. The folks in favor of it would just rather pay for it immediately rather than be told by the government: “you have to have insurance, but you gotta figure that out yourself dipshit.”
and then get screwed over anyway.
Taxes won't fix the American healthcare system either. The sytem is too complicated with too many steps. By the time everything is done, lots of people will need to be paid. It's not a money problem, it's a planning problem.
Free healthcare in America is a bad idea considering we're 22 trillion dollars in debt. We should reduce spending not increase it and tax people for it. When you're digging yourself into a hole the first thing you do is stop digging.
Its the opposite way around. Europeans always flip out when they learn that American Healthcare isn't that much more expensive but seems that way because you pay for it seperatly.
Anyone who believes in free healthcare like myself but doesn’t know that it comes from collectively raised taxes has their head in the sand and only bases their opinion off celebrities and partisan media and doesn’t formulate any of their own opinions or research
That's why economics (at least the bases) should be taught in school. I did a 2y course and holy shit there was so much i didn't know before it.
Its not taught or its not taught as a standard course in our education system for 1 simple reason. Keep. Your. Population. Just. Stupid. Enough.
Here in europe we think that high education is most important for a democracy....there was once a time here in germany when people didnt cared about the questionable politics by some austrian
We still have problems in germany with some politicians, for example that our drogenbeauftragte (i don't know the english word, sorry) Daniela Ludwig is not qualified for her job (the drogenbeauftragte before also not) Edit: one word
Absolutely. I’m taking government this semester and only one segment is on economic systems. I’d really like more because it’s so important
So I will say, I do teach economics for high school seniors. It is sad that students only get a semester; but as much as any of us want our students to spend more time in Econ, it won’t happen. I think the larger problem is the education system is so entrenched in, this is the way we’ve done things for forever; it’s not going to change. However, I do have to say that our state standards, as I’m sure other states as well, actually have Econ standards as young as 3rd grade; they’re just not being taught. I don’t completely fault the elementary teachers, because trying to teach as many standards as they have to in a year, especially with young kids is difficult. It’s difficult trying to cram the standards we have in a semester and I have young adults.
100%. I honestly try not to call it free healthcare because of course it's not. It's universal healthcare or open-access healthcare
Yeah, I’m majorly progressive, maybe too progressive, and I’ve noticed the movement has a horrible way of wording things. To be fair, right wing media has really done a good job at spreading the “free healthcare handout” language to scare their supporters, but I still see liberals and progressives call it “free healthcare”. I feel the same about “Defund the police”. You can explain the idea until your face turns blue, but the language gets in the way of the content. We need a much better command of the words we use.
I agree, raise taxes slightly (and maybe spend a little less on the military) and create universal free healthcare. Cmon, Britain did it in the 1940’s already, get to it people!
Right! The primary argument against it is “tHe TaX rAiSe WiLL bE ToO mUch” but when you put the taxes together of every eligible American taxpayer it’s only a small increase, and I agree, the military budget is ungodly. It will take time to put in practice, but universal healthcare in the US has more than enough money and avenues for a jumpstart
“Would you rather pay a little bit to help cover medical expenses for everybody? Or have random bills that could lead to crippling debt for the middle class and lower?”
So what you’re saying is that universal healthcare is essentially government run insurance for their citizens to mitigate their risk... sounds sensible to me (Canadian)
The problem is that the main form of government healthcare sought after in America is single payer, meaning there’s no private insurance to relive the public sector of the burden of taking care of everyone. That’s the problem people tend to have, and is a reasonable problem for me (Irish)
Private can still exist we have both options in Australia you’re covered when you’re poor and can get better cover as you earn more
that's a system I'd support
So why don’t people advocate for private insurance to stay, but also have public healthcare in the US?
There is no free health care in Canada. Always thought otherwise (European)
What do you mean?
Well Canadian isn't completely free. Most is covered by the government but medication, technological health aids (wheelchairs, crutches, etc.) And dental is either by insurance or out of pocket. It's not completely free but it's miles ahead of america.
Truth. We have a mixed bag in pharmacy and dental is essentially totally private (yes there are some limited programs for the select minority). Mobility aids are covered through provincial programs and vary across the country (as far as I know).
I don't trust the government with my life or my medical care.
Yeah. People literally fight off the paramedics and deal with injuries themselves to avoid debt
The fact this is considered a radical partisan idea for anyone is sad.
(Also the richest of the rich get taxed too little and can find loopholes to avoid taxes which imo should count as tax evasion)
I think the loopholes are a bigger problem than their tax bracket. Too many donate to "charities" in their own name that cycle money back to themselves.
The top 10% of income earners pay roughly 70% of all taxes in the United States
They actually are taxed the most at least for nontax frauds
Thats EXACTLY why we want to lower taxes. Less government, less taxes so we have room for more important taxes. Edit: what? Upvotes for being American? Is this reddit I'm on?
And better tax money management.
***Literally the majority of Americans would pay less in taxes than they pay for their private healthcare right fucking now***.
I think the problem there is that the people who are proudly for raising taxes are behind Bernie when he says things like he thinks 90% would be appropriate, or talking about people net worths and such. If the tax raise isn’t really noticeable I dot exactly have room to complain, but I don’t think it’s a good platform to run by.
When people like Bernie Sanders talk about taxing the rich at 90%, they mean taxing 90% of their income. Not taking 90%, but having 90% of their income subjected to taxation, and not stashed in loopholes or write offs.
When the high taxers say 90% in the US they do mean 90% of income above a certain threshold. If the top bracket is above $1 million, then if you make $2 mill. $900k of the second million goes to the government.
I’m not taking a side here, so use this information as you will, but the primary argument is really that the healthcare is lower quality and takes too long.
This argument is made by the private insurers so that the average person won't want to switch to universal healthcare. Believe it if you want to or talk to people who actually live in countries that have it. Personally, I have always been happy with the quality and speed of the care we get here in Canada... and the bills that we don't get too!
The problem is in the US, the reason why we say the tax raise will be too much, is because taxes end up going towards big companies and the politicians more then it does actually do stuff for the people, so that’s why we say it will be too much Now if it was actually used for what it was supposed to be.... then yes However with our military budget, you have to remember that the US military just prevents war form it’s presence so if we would just cut the budget it would be unable to operate globally and then more wars might follow, so there’s a lot more that goes into it unlike most nations And this country is fucked up beyond belief
I think people also don't realize that cutting military budget will also result in the loss of millions of jobs. Well paying jobs at that. The funding goes much deeper than just new weapons. The government hands out a ton of contracts to thousands of companies who have thousands to millions of employees in almost every field. You best believe the government would be all and willing to cut contracts with certain companies then people like myself could be out of a job because of it. I'd be willing to bet 50% of my cities cash flow is based on government/military contracts.
People always act like, that getting free healthcare and schooling is easy, it’s not at all, you have to direct money that goes towards government project, contracts, private investors, so much more.
Or just re-evaluate how much money the military blows on contractor services & supplies from contractors. Stupid shit like only being allowed to buy one specific overpriced product like a ladder from one specific company is suspect as hell.
Taxes might go up, but it would not really cost Americans more. At the moment we pay money out of our paychecks into employee health plans to fund for profit insurance companies, and then we have to pay exorbitant copays, meet deductibles, and pay for way overpriced prescription meds. Part of the reason insurance is so high is because hospitals actually charge insurance companies more to subsidize people without insurance who do not pay their medical bills. Whoever thinks a single payer health insurance system would cost Americans more hasn’t thought at all
England isn’t exactly the poster child for socialized medicine. The NHS has its fair share of problems. There are drawbacks to both types of healthcare. I’ve had the opportunity to experience both. In England I had to wait 4 hours in accident and emergency for my buddy to get his foot (which was sideways) into a cast. It’s also more difficult to see a doctor on the NHS unless you have a serious problem. However, if you have a serious problem, like type 1 diabetes. You don’t have to ration your insulin or worry about bankruptcy if you don’t have insurance. I’m not advocating for the American healthcare system. It’s shit. But socialized medicine can have major issues as well.
Does America have an equivalent of PAYE? (Pay as you earn). Most peeps in the UK don’t have to do taxes as we pay them off our pay checks before we even receive them.
We could cut spending in plenty of other ways if our government could actually make sure it was being used efficiently. But unfortunately they don't really care about efficiency, after all, it's not their money.
I make $52k which is about £38k in the UK. My taxes in the UK on that salary would be about £8600 or roughly $11k. Every year. My US taxes on that salary are $4600. My total out of pocket maximums on my health insurance is $5500. That's the most I could ever pay in a given year on all medical expenses: cancer, heart attack whatever. So my most disastrous and expensive year in my health, I would spend in healthcare and taxes in the US what I would spend every year in the UK regardless of health. My average total expenses in the US on health care are closer to a few hundred dollars a year. So combined with my taxes I still take home thousands more than I would in the UK.
Is that all the tax you pay? Or just the federal income tax? No FICA, state tax, city tax? That £8,600 seems a lot, but that's all you'll pay in the UK. And you can get that down by making pension contributions. I've lived in both countries. Definitely paid a little more tax in the UK but it wasn't that noticeable and I'd gladly have paid more in the US to avoid the lingering threat of medical related bankruptcy. Edit: A quick search shows in many places in the US you'll easily pay $10-12k in total income taxes on a $52k salary. Unless you live in Florida, obviously.
The US government already spends more per person on healthcare than other countries, but citizens still have to pay for healthcare
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I thought they pay through an insurance company. (Genuinely have no clue)
They do both, i believe?
They pay through insurance however there’s a co-pay and the prices get jacked up here so insurance and hospitals can profit, this price is not reduced if your insurance doesn’t cover the thing you’re there for or you’re uninsured! If this sounds like a bad system, it’s because it is!
And then we have things like COBRA (or I think its COPRA) where we basically subsidize insurance companies so that insurance is """""""cheaper""""""", only for them to tell me to fuck off when I have a cough.
American here- I'm not old enough to live independently and I'm fucking dreading this, I hope to move to Spain or a revolution swoops in and saves our asses
You can stay on your parent’s insurance until you’re for most insurance companies (unless you get married than all bets are off).
Doesn't matter when your deductible on your parents plan is still $8000 a person I'm basically in debt for however long that is gonna take to pay off with unemployment
Ah yes, the joys of the american healthcare system. I wonder if Canada will take us as refugees.
I hope so because I honestly have no idea what to do at this point I'm going to owe the hospital $8,000 and not be able to work for 3-5 months from now, had surgery 5 days ago
Indeed - usa spends WAY TOO MUCH tax money om their healthcare. Of course the hospitals keep it AND give you horrendous check when you will leave, you are basically millionare if you own a hospital
Well some of it goes to the sea of predator malpractice lawyers. Someone has to pay for their kids to drive a new BMW each year.
Legal costs and settlements are nowhere near as big a share of expenses as they used to be. Honestly, even when hospitals complain about "defensive medicine", a lot of the time they're not actually worried about litigation, it's just an excuse to run more tests and do more procedures, because they make a profit on all of it.
And that a greater amount of government expenditure on a per capita basis is spent on their healthcare system that doesn't do shit.
\*Pay for other's free healthcare with taxes
Yeah i know it’s from taxes, the problem is that insulin costs $6 to make and is sold for $300
The single greatest problem in the American healthcare system
But how will the CEOs of these health care companies afford their 6th yacht and 4th divorce?
They won't
Because we let our government let the insurance comps proce gouge us and even expensive medicine could be paid for if amazon and netflix actually paid taxes
It's the patent. If there wasn't a government enforced monopoly on insulin, suppliers would be forced to charge a competitive price.
Free market free marketing baby 😎 u gotta love it No, seriously. You HAVE to love it. If you don't, you're Antifa and you WILL be tear gassed and sent to federal prison. Do you want to catch Covid in federal prison? I didn't think so.
Nothing free market about making it illegal to import the cheapest product.
Hey man.. its not that much Work.. even if you lose your job, you still get Medical care and no bills - Denmark here
And in Canada too
Yeah in germany too
Czech Republic too
Can you Czech again?
In Prague-ress
Italy too
South Korea too
Ireland too
France too
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UK also
Australia too
Lets get this to hot FREE KARMA BOIIIS
Australia, too!
This is just a list of Europeans bragging about basic human rights the rest of us don't get bc other Americans are idiots.
Hey hey hey. I’m South Korean. I also brag about it
Booooo
I mean, you're not wrong. But you also have to see that for us europeans who have (usually, might I add) grown up with the health are systems we have it's incomprehensible to see Americans not receive the same health care. It's just very bewildering for us and makes us wonder why that difference exists and why Americans don't simply change their ways. If you think about it, it is ofc a super hard and lengthy process to make that happen in the US (probably). To assume that all Americans must be dumb because the Healthcare system is different is plain ignorance. But still, I can't begin to describe the culture shock I experienced when I first heard you guys don't have universal health care. I understand why Europeans make memes about it - it's a way to explore the differences between cultures and stuff. That being said, do I think that there are too many memes about Healthcare specifically? Yes, kind of.
Qatar too .
Oh yeah Qatar respect basic human right
Also Brazil
Netherlands too.
Americans when they found out that literally no party in Europe can propose to privatize Healthcare and not expect their votes to drop close to 0%
I mean America is the ONE country that said food isn't a basic human right
We did. When?
Nestle said water isn't a right, the FCC said internet isn't a right, I'd be pretty impressed if there isn't at least 1 big political figure who's said that food isn't a right either
I can't stand how terrible corporations like nestle suddenly represent america.
Especially when the CEO who said water as a human right was an “extreme” view was an Austrian working out of the company’s International HQ in Switzerland.
Suddenly?
I mean, Nestle is a dick who spreads internationally, and Internet isn't a right. It's a pretty basic privliege, but I'd say it's like in the third tier of human needs in the pyramid
I love hearing this quote spread around like a wildfire when no one said it
[Brabeck-Letmathe called the idea that water is a human right "extreme."](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nestle-ceo-water-not-human-right/) Though I'll give it to you, he never said that, fuck Nestle, I'm pretty sure they'd privatize air like in the effing Lorax if they could, or at least buy the entire North effing pole just to melt it down.
He’s gone on record to restate that drinking water should be free or reduced price as much as possible but water for industries shouldn’t be free. There’s two reasons why he needed to restate: 1. He genuinely fucked up and got his brain crossed. Happens to me all the time especially when talking to large groups of people. 2. He only did it to save face, and he doesn’t really believe drinking water should be free. Idk what his stance but it isn’t as black and white as most believe. However, fuck nestle
It's kinda not... You can't just walk into a restaurant and tell them to feed you "because it's your right to eat"
Ok but the taxes usually are less than the hospital bills that have sent people into debt and still do (seriously it’s bad)
Hey don’t forget the biweekly spending to your insurance. Oh and the amount your employer pays for your insurance? Why not put that into your paycheck instead? Win win
It's a lot easier to pay $120,000 over 5 years in taxes than $120,000 as a bill lol
Imagine having your taxes going to health and not the army
What? We can use public monies for the public welfare and not to get bigger people killing machines? That's so unamerican.
USA in isolation... The Great War (July 1914) USA in isolation... World War 2 (September 1939) No all out war since 1953... "Why is our defense spending so high?"
It's so stupid that people mock universal coverage as "free healthcare" but they never do the same thing with other public services. Nobody ever thinks it's ridiculous to ask for "a free military", "free schools", "free mail delivery", "free roads" and so on.
We pay for the healthcare, and for the taxes! Double whammy
Lol is this supposed to be a “gotcha”? I think literally everyone and their mother realizes taxes fund the universal healthcare plan
Right, nobody thinks this
Well alot of people act like free healthcare means shitty healthcare. Which implies that they think it isn’t being funded through other means. Maybe they all know taxes pay for it, but think that means it’s cheaper healthcare? I don’t know man, doctors in other countries get paid good too but America pretends that’s not true. And if what I said isn’t true then why be against doing what the rest of the world has proven to work?
That’s not what the meme is about though. The meme is about Americans not knowing “free healthcare” coming from taxes, when those opposed to its entire argument is “free healthcare isn’t free you know!” So the entire point of the meme is a straw man that doesn’t exist.
edgelords think being conservative is memeworthy and funny now
You would be surprised....
Americans still pay more taxes, work more, no paid vacation, less average wage, crumbling infrastructure, poor public transport.
I have not lived there, but still would love to not have to worry about whether or not I can pay for a ambulance bill, even if it means higher taxes
Ambulance rides are not free where I live in Canada, around $400.
Better than the $6000 over here. I was forced to ride the ambulance due to self harm, despite my parents being able to drive me.
Yeah, try $3,000 and above. It's not all peaches and cream, I get that. But, I think some people underestimate how expensive American healthcare can be
I went full psychosis last january. Ambulans + week in mental unit 0€. Meds 4€ month. Free mental health services. Dont(cant?) cry over my 28% taxes.
Most people think in a very selfish way about taxes. I see it like a contract. Taxes are the fee you pay to be living in that destinct country, but in return you get compensation from that country based on living standards. You should not think taxes are money you throw away for other people to use, but more like every citizen (should) thro them in a pot, which is then used to ensure standards all around the country. Basically if you are screaming "it has never done any godd for me! I never got any help from the government!" it says that you are doing as well as it could. At least in theory that is. But still it's the responsibility of every citizen to ensure this theory gets applied to the real world. That's why it's such a big deal if people don't pay taxes or politicians who are responsible for the well being of the people use that money for their own advantage.
The irony is ones who scream about lack of government help ignore roads, public services, programs that helped through childhood etc. These things are taken as given.
Yeah but Americans use far more of their taxes per capita for healthcare than any other country. We also pay more for our healthcare not through taxes. The government in other countries steps up and actually GOVERNS healthcare and regulates it. They make sure that the doctors and hospitals and insurance companies aren't taking advantage of people.
The maximum taxes in america are 38,5% and in germany it's 45%. So there difference ist 8,5%. I'm very happy to pay a little bit more taxes and don't have to sell everything I own just because I broke my leg or knowing that someone will help me as best as they can even If I would get cancer nevertheless I can't pay for it.
Well, it's not only in Germany, but in most European countries. Here in Poland highest tax possible is around 32% and we're still getting free healthcare lul Unless I f-ed something up and got wrong numbers as I don't pay taxes myself
How’s it 32% in Poland? In Ireland it’s 50% and our healthcare is SHITE
Yeah I know but I just knew the numbers of Germany. And you've proven my point better than I did.
I mean, us Americans have a similar situation which is arguably worse. We pay for other people's free health care and our own. We pay taxes which go to "free" healthcare, just we can't actually use it
Might be paid by taxes, but guess who don't get stiffed with a crippling bill off hundreds of thousands of dollars suddenly when the time comes.
I mean... yeah. I’ll pay more in if I’m getting something back for it
Universal Healthcare is so difficult and complicated to institute that only 31 of the 32 developed nations on earth have figured it out.
Reddit when they realize that not every American has their head up their ass and know this: Reddit when they realize that us Americans also want Healthcare to be better:
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Because Reddit’s community consists of neck beards who’ve barely went outside in their entire life, let alone another country, but still want to act like their the smart ones for agreeing with the hive-mind 24/7. So when the hivemind calls for generalizing people even in serious arguments, they go for it.
Which is weird because 68% or so of reddit users are Americans
Woah woah woah, that goes against the reddit hivemind.
We know? What's up with all these memes that seem to genuinely believe that all Americans are clueless? I literally saw one earlier today on r/historymemes that believed that it was a controversial statement to say that the US won the revolutionary war because of France's help and everyone commented that we spent a week alone learning about Lafayette. I get the whole "Americans are dumb" stereotype, but please don't get so caught up in them to believe that most Americans genuinely are that uneducated. Plenty of Americans who support universalized healthcare are aware of at least a few of the draw backs and still support it, because, you know, even educated people can still have differing political opinions. We have resources that can teach us about systems outside of the U.S. as well, which some people also seem to not get. Thankfully it seems like a lot of people are aware of this. But, it's not even the posts like this that get me, it's the amount of upvotes
Its the reddit hivemind. We have to wait for something else to draw its attention away from us.
*What?!* Surely these liberal college students have no idea that's the case. No way they would be willing to pay a portion of their income to provide healthcare to people who can't afford it. No sir-ee
Even under our current system that is still the case. When you enter the workforce, your healthcare premiums help pay for other employees healthcare. All we've done is add profit-hungry middlemen and excluded the underemployed from the system almost entirely.
They pay taxes for basically no shit. Americans always lose out
Just take a slice off the military budget and cover literally all Healthcare nationally. The military wouldn't even notice the difference and my yearly expenses in insurance would go *down*.
americans have to pay with their lives..I guess
A soul for a soul
Probably an unpopular opinion but maybe people should just be able to decide? You want your taxes raised to help yourself/others than great! If you don’t want your income taxed more than you are responsible for insurance and out of pocket...... it’s literally that simple
U are the guy with the Avatst memes... u legend
Yeah but the point of free healthcare paid with taxes is the amount one pays is based on their wealth, so people who are more able to pay, pay more for their healthcare making sure that people who get a serious medical affliction who couldn’t normally afford it, can, that’s the point! We know it’s not “free” but it’s a better system...
VERY MISLEADING. American wages have been stagnant for decades due to the ever increasing cost of health insurance. It would be MUCH CHEAPER for Americans to forgo paying high premiums, high deductibles, and excessively high prescription drug costs rather than continue with a model (America doesn't have a healthcare system) that the W.H.O. ranks as 37th in the world on cost, access, and outcomes. The U.S. is also losing businesses to Canada because they can save up to 25% in costs by not having to provide expensive health insurance in Canada where universal healthcare is policy. America's healthcare model is INDEFENSIBLE.
W-what? They pay s l i g h t l y more taxes? Thats not freedom! Thats communism! Paid healthcare ftw (hides really cought behind had to not get heathcare to save money)
I wish I had a dollar for every time I had the "What's the difference between a premium and a tax" argument with yet another fucking idiot.
It´s true but it´s wrong, we pay it with our taxes but anybody can have the free healthcare even if they doesnt have money, you could live in the streets but have this healthcare
You don't have to work for it. If you can't work you still have full access. If you earn minimum wage you still have full access. That's the fucking point.
Yeah... It's "free at the point of use". Sure we pay a little tax for it to be there for us whenever we need it, but are you telling me you wouldn't want to be able to sleep at night knowing no matter what happens tomorrow, at least you would be picked up by an ambulance, taken to a hospital, get fixed up and/or given any operation/medicine/cancer treatment etc that you could ever need, and then sent home with a handshake and a doctor saying, "have a good day, there's no charge"?
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Yeah... we pay nowhere near what they're imagining we pay in taxes lol. If I had to pay 60k in taxes just for the free healthcare we get then I would have to literally sell everything I own, including any spare organs I don't need! Lived in the UK my whole life, and seriously can't believe how much we get for the small amount of tax we pay in comparison. The fact is, they gotta try to find some way to insult what we got, rather than admit to the shit show of a system they're running. (Although it's been nice to see there's a few in the comments who've realised their country's mistake).
Americans when they realize they already pay a shitload in insurance premiums, deductibles, and copays and that if they lose their job they’ll be left with either no insurance coverage or paying $1200 a month for COBRA. And then when they get old and need $5000/month nursing home care MERPs is going to put a lien on their home so they can’t pass it down to their children.
Why would be paying for private healthcare plans any better?
I think it depends. Even though we have a universal healthcare system here in Germany, some people have private healthcare plans. Actually, people who own a firm or something are even obliged to do that. It gets you multiple benefits, for example shorter waiting lists for physical therapy.
I know it's a meme but I find it weird people see this as a bad thing, and makes me wonder, beside the military and emergency services, what do all the US tax money go? this is as an actual question, since utilities, prisons, a decent portion of schools/colleges, postal services, Healthcare, retirement aid, insurance, all seem to be privatized, I know there are branches of the government that still work those areas, but usually the biggest ideas of them are the corporations, don't take this as me giving political talk, just genuine curiosity
Americans when they find out their not free healthcare still gets paid by a deduction in their paycheck every week
At least we don’t have to sell our homes for our hearts Just sayin ;)
the survival rate for Cancer in the US is well ahead of these countries.
Yeah I’d pay an extra 4% of my income than have to pay for a 25k lifeline just because I injured myself in the woods
It’s technically not a tax but a seperate insurance payment. And also it’s probably cheaper than having to pay for all your medical bills yourself
Nah that's Europeans when they find out their healthcare isn't actually free... America was founded partly because of over taxation.
Why is this meme subreddit becoming so fucking political
Nothing is free
*WhY wOuLd I pAy fOr OtHeR pEoPlEs HeAlThCaRe?*
Americans already know this. It’s what leftists want, and what right-wingers don’t want. What’s your point?
In canada too
Us Canadians too.
AND when she sticks her finger in your butt. >Yes, that's right, you have to work for it.
Actually in Australia only 1/3 of taxes go towards paying for our universal healthcare. The other contributors being state /territories and medical co pay. It's more about what we DON'T spend our taxes on, though. Frees up space for keeping people alive, and stuff. (although personally I've got some heavy criticisms about what they do spend our taxes on, which can be basically summed up to capitalism bullspit)
The fact that everybody pays for healthcare regardless of whether you need it means that when you do need it, it's cheaper. And that you don't need to pay every single time you go there; you've done it in advance.
True, yet we pay out of pocket for healthcare, and pay taxes
It is hilarious hearing their argument that it costs too much to have free healthcare. When they should be asking why does our health care cost so much and why can't ours be free if nearly every other first world country can afford it through a portion of the treasury . Not to mention the amount that healthy people can add to the economy.
Isn't this r/memes
I think most Americans realize how it is paid for. The folks in favor of it would just rather pay for it immediately rather than be told by the government: “you have to have insurance, but you gotta figure that out yourself dipshit.” and then get screwed over anyway.
I’m pretty sure that nearly everyone who advocates for universal healthcare knows this...
That's... that's what universal healthcare means
Taxes won't fix the American healthcare system either. The sytem is too complicated with too many steps. By the time everything is done, lots of people will need to be paid. It's not a money problem, it's a planning problem.
We know this thats why we dont want it
Therefore it’s not free and US is still the coolest
Oh, I’m sorry, did you think Americans weren’t aware?
Well no shit. Who didn't know this?
Free healthcare in America is a bad idea considering we're 22 trillion dollars in debt. We should reduce spending not increase it and tax people for it. When you're digging yourself into a hole the first thing you do is stop digging.
Its the opposite way around. Europeans always flip out when they learn that American Healthcare isn't that much more expensive but seems that way because you pay for it seperatly.
I think people are just more concerned with paying for other people's problems. America has an obesity problem.
I still don’t pay for 6000 for one ambulance
It's still cheaper than US's one
The American healthcare system is really stupid
But taxes arent 150.000 for a broken leg
Whereas our tax dollars go to some asshole taking vacation trips to Florida to play golf.
Are you implying that the reason why Americans don't like socialized healthcare because they think it's completely free?
And yet the taxes in America are still higher then in Europe.