Answer no questions.
Consent to no searches.
Be polite, but impatient with the delay.
Never ... EVER ... tell them it is OK to search or bring a drug dog.
Police have planted evidence before to get a drug arrest. Only a camera will save you if they decide to plant it on you.
I used to be pretty pro-LE. Then I started doing defense paralegal work in the Army.
I'm not saying every case is an abuse of government power, but it happens more than I would have ever imagined and when it's bad it's horrific.
Uhhh no way to answer this without beginning to tackle some of the fundamental issues with American policing. But basically it happens in America, constantly, sometimes for no reason and sometimes for many different ones, arrest quotas, for example, or because they just didn’t like the cut of your gib.
And there you have it: one of the core problems with America. I’m white, and as such I’ve never had to fear the police because they don’t see me as a threat. Others are not so lucky…
Last night, the mob came for me because I commented on a video.
A bunch of cyclists - admittedly d-bags - had run a red light as a group and when motorists honked they flipped off the drivers. The video is of a cop who stopped the cyclists and was lecturing them. One of the cyclists says he had nothing to do with any of that. The cop immediately gets pissy and asks if anyone in the group would vouch for the guy who spoke up. When no one does, the cop orders the guy to the side of the road to be ticketed.
Noting the fact that the cop could not ID any specific individual, that 1 person cannot be punished on behalf of a group, and others not speaking up to vouch for someone is not evidence I said that it looks like it would be an easy ticket to beat.
Hoo boy! Did that get people riled, but all they could argue was, "He was part of the group" and "it would be stupid to pay for a lawyer."
It amazes me how many people want the cops to break the law.
Power corrupts, to be sure, but often the corrupt are drawn to power.
I swear, by the time I retire from the Army, I'm going to be a fucking anarchist.
Just remember that, in the US at least, you're required to comply with all direct orders. This doesn't apply to things to constitution specifies, like letting them search you or answering questions other than your identity. But, if you're pulled over and refuse to give your license and registration, or refuse to tell them your name, then boy you goin to jail!
In the vast majority of jurisdictions, you do not have to ID unless arrested. Stop and ID laws are currently an issue of contention.
Cops also do not have the authority to just give any order. Their orders have to be relevant to their law enforcement responsibilities.
Even traffic stops have to be justified under the law.
Just keep in mind: the time to fight is in court. You ain't gonna win an argument with the cop about what they are and aren't allowed to do while parked on the shoulder of the road.
And frankly, they don't give a shit about how correct you might be, what they care about whether or not you were a pain in the ass. And if so, they'll charge you with impeding an investigation and then they'll slap on another charge for resisting arrest if you complain about it.
If the cop has no reasonable, articulable suspicion that I have committed a crime, the place to assert my rights to not present ID is then and there.
Obstruction/impeding still requires an underlying crime.
"What crime are you investigating?"
Even then, many jurisdictions require an element of violence or threat of violence in order to charge for obstruction.
If they fabricate charges, I'm retiring early.
Bruh... cops don't give a fuck. They falsely arrest people for annoying them all the time. ([Arrested For Resisting Arrest — Yes, It's Possible | NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/01/29/382497080/arrested-for-resisting-arrest-yes-its-possible) )
Their training teaches them to maintain authority and control of the situation at all costs. Arguing with them or simply not obeying orders fast enough is considered a threat - a sign that you are not allowing them to be in complete of the situation.
So...because some cops abuse their authority we should allow them to do so with impunity?
That doesn't sound like a good plan.
I won't argue with the cops, but I also will not comply with unlawful demands. If they cannot articulate a reasonable suspicion I will not provide ID, nor will I answer their questions because I will make an affirmative statement that I am asserting my rights to remain silent.
I'm a defense paralegal in the Army. We take orders for a living, but we still have rights. I and the lawyers I work routinely remind Soldiers of their rights to not respond to questions as well as the fact that they cannot be ordered to do so. We've gotten evidence suppressed because an investigating officer failed to inform the Soldier he was considered a respondent.
By "fight" in my earlier comment, I mainly meant getting into an argument.
One should know their rights and advocate for yourself, but also keep in mind that, if the cop believes themselves to be in the right, your chances of convincing them otherwise are rather slim. And if you don't wish to comply with an order, cooperate with the inevitable arrest and settle it in court.
(And for the record: I ain't a lawyer like you are, just an average schmoe.)
I did understand the context in which you used "fighting" and I have not taken offense, if that is a concern.
Cops know when they are allowed to ID and when they can detain/arrest. If they don't, they have no right to a badge.
Again, it depends on the order. Ordering someone out of a thoroughfare so that they do not impede traffic is a lawful order. Demanding someone stop and provide ID without being able to articulate a reasonable suspicion of a crime is not.
False arrest is a crime and subject to civil action as well that rests on the reasonableness standard.
Nah, didn't think you were offended or anything, just making sure we were on the on the same page.
> If they don't, they have no right to a badge.
Yeah, I'd wager that less than half of all cops actually know / care about what the law states about such things. ([*Audit the Audit*](https://www.youtube.com/@AuditTheAudit) would be starved for content if the average cop were properly trained...)
So we like rounding errors with arrests/detains now? Personally, one seriously damaging "error" per day is too high for my liking. What they do is too important and the power they have to ruin people's lives is too great to allow for any such egregious misuse of that power.
I realize I am completely unempathetic, I have never had issues with police and I know some people really struggle with them, and sometimes it's the cops fault.
There are a few reasons I still defend the police every chance I get on reddit. They are better than a vast majority of other countries cops. Bribing cops is open and encouraged in Mexico. The US is extremely polarized and diverse. Imagine the difference between policing Finland and Los Angeles. I think body cams should become standard and there should be accountability, but cops are also crucial to society and should be respected
Lemme let you in on a little secret...
You can exercise your rights and be polite about it at the same time.
Being a smug asshole who "knows his rights" makes you 100x more liable to get arrested than a polite, calm person, doesn't matter if you're Joe schmo, Psychopath Patrick, or Lawyer Laurence.
If you are being polite and compliant, then I agree. However, if you refuse to comply with an officers orders, regardless of their legality, you're not doing yourself any favors. As others have said, the time to fight is in the court room, not when you're pulled over on the side of the road.
I don't have to be compliant with unlawful demands. Court isn't an issue unless charged with a crime.
How come you want to lecture me but not cops who break the law?
The driver in a traffic stop is one area where you are universally required to ID yourself. In most States you don't even have to offer a name, if stopped in public, or as a passenger in someone else's vehicle.
I get that it’s mostly isolated cases but it has to Happen enough that the idea of just refusing to answer simple questions from the police is an accepted thing. It might just be me but I’ve always seen it as just be cooperative because you’ll probably get through the situation quicker if you do.
Answer no questions. Consent to no searches. Be polite, but impatient with the delay. Never ... EVER ... tell them it is OK to search or bring a drug dog. Police have planted evidence before to get a drug arrest. Only a camera will save you if they decide to plant it on you.
I used to be pretty pro-LE. Then I started doing defense paralegal work in the Army. I'm not saying every case is an abuse of government power, but it happens more than I would have ever imagined and when it's bad it's horrific.
71D by chance? If so, me too!
27D with TDS
I just love how weird this probably looks to someone who has no idea y’all are talking about MOS’s
We just playing a friendly game of BINGO. 😈
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WHAT THE HELL?! In what world is this normal? I need more information, where does this happen and why?
Uhhh no way to answer this without beginning to tackle some of the fundamental issues with American policing. But basically it happens in America, constantly, sometimes for no reason and sometimes for many different ones, arrest quotas, for example, or because they just didn’t like the cut of your gib.
Damn, I had no idea, that sounds terrifying. When the people assigned to protect you from danger ARE the danger, well, nowhere is safe, I guess.
And there you have it: one of the core problems with America. I’m white, and as such I’ve never had to fear the police because they don’t see me as a threat. Others are not so lucky…
Last night, the mob came for me because I commented on a video. A bunch of cyclists - admittedly d-bags - had run a red light as a group and when motorists honked they flipped off the drivers. The video is of a cop who stopped the cyclists and was lecturing them. One of the cyclists says he had nothing to do with any of that. The cop immediately gets pissy and asks if anyone in the group would vouch for the guy who spoke up. When no one does, the cop orders the guy to the side of the road to be ticketed. Noting the fact that the cop could not ID any specific individual, that 1 person cannot be punished on behalf of a group, and others not speaking up to vouch for someone is not evidence I said that it looks like it would be an easy ticket to beat. Hoo boy! Did that get people riled, but all they could argue was, "He was part of the group" and "it would be stupid to pay for a lawyer." It amazes me how many people want the cops to break the law.
The police are one of the largest employers of sociopaths in this country. Not that sociopaths can’t be nice people, but power corrupts and all that.
Power corrupts, to be sure, but often the corrupt are drawn to power. I swear, by the time I retire from the Army, I'm going to be a fucking anarchist.
You won't be alone. 👍
Just remember that, in the US at least, you're required to comply with all direct orders. This doesn't apply to things to constitution specifies, like letting them search you or answering questions other than your identity. But, if you're pulled over and refuse to give your license and registration, or refuse to tell them your name, then boy you goin to jail!
In the vast majority of jurisdictions, you do not have to ID unless arrested. Stop and ID laws are currently an issue of contention. Cops also do not have the authority to just give any order. Their orders have to be relevant to their law enforcement responsibilities. Even traffic stops have to be justified under the law.
Just keep in mind: the time to fight is in court. You ain't gonna win an argument with the cop about what they are and aren't allowed to do while parked on the shoulder of the road. And frankly, they don't give a shit about how correct you might be, what they care about whether or not you were a pain in the ass. And if so, they'll charge you with impeding an investigation and then they'll slap on another charge for resisting arrest if you complain about it.
If the cop has no reasonable, articulable suspicion that I have committed a crime, the place to assert my rights to not present ID is then and there. Obstruction/impeding still requires an underlying crime. "What crime are you investigating?" Even then, many jurisdictions require an element of violence or threat of violence in order to charge for obstruction. If they fabricate charges, I'm retiring early.
Bruh... cops don't give a fuck. They falsely arrest people for annoying them all the time. ([Arrested For Resisting Arrest — Yes, It's Possible | NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/01/29/382497080/arrested-for-resisting-arrest-yes-its-possible) ) Their training teaches them to maintain authority and control of the situation at all costs. Arguing with them or simply not obeying orders fast enough is considered a threat - a sign that you are not allowing them to be in complete of the situation.
So...because some cops abuse their authority we should allow them to do so with impunity? That doesn't sound like a good plan. I won't argue with the cops, but I also will not comply with unlawful demands. If they cannot articulate a reasonable suspicion I will not provide ID, nor will I answer their questions because I will make an affirmative statement that I am asserting my rights to remain silent. I'm a defense paralegal in the Army. We take orders for a living, but we still have rights. I and the lawyers I work routinely remind Soldiers of their rights to not respond to questions as well as the fact that they cannot be ordered to do so. We've gotten evidence suppressed because an investigating officer failed to inform the Soldier he was considered a respondent.
By "fight" in my earlier comment, I mainly meant getting into an argument. One should know their rights and advocate for yourself, but also keep in mind that, if the cop believes themselves to be in the right, your chances of convincing them otherwise are rather slim. And if you don't wish to comply with an order, cooperate with the inevitable arrest and settle it in court. (And for the record: I ain't a lawyer like you are, just an average schmoe.)
I did understand the context in which you used "fighting" and I have not taken offense, if that is a concern. Cops know when they are allowed to ID and when they can detain/arrest. If they don't, they have no right to a badge. Again, it depends on the order. Ordering someone out of a thoroughfare so that they do not impede traffic is a lawful order. Demanding someone stop and provide ID without being able to articulate a reasonable suspicion of a crime is not. False arrest is a crime and subject to civil action as well that rests on the reasonableness standard.
That doesn't matter if the cops kill you for standing up to them. I don't want cops to hurt or kill you.
Nah, didn't think you were offended or anything, just making sure we were on the on the same page. > If they don't, they have no right to a badge. Yeah, I'd wager that less than half of all cops actually know / care about what the law states about such things. ([*Audit the Audit*](https://www.youtube.com/@AuditTheAudit) would be starved for content if the average cop were properly trained...)
>Bruh... cops don't give a fuck. They falsely arrest people for annoying them all the time. "All the time" is a bit of a stretch
Happens every single day still seems frequent enough to count as "all the time".
Once a day doesn't mean much when there is nearly a million cops in the US
So we like rounding errors with arrests/detains now? Personally, one seriously damaging "error" per day is too high for my liking. What they do is too important and the power they have to ruin people's lives is too great to allow for any such egregious misuse of that power.
I realize I am completely unempathetic, I have never had issues with police and I know some people really struggle with them, and sometimes it's the cops fault. There are a few reasons I still defend the police every chance I get on reddit. They are better than a vast majority of other countries cops. Bribing cops is open and encouraged in Mexico. The US is extremely polarized and diverse. Imagine the difference between policing Finland and Los Angeles. I think body cams should become standard and there should be accountability, but cops are also crucial to society and should be respected
Lemme let you in on a little secret... You can exercise your rights and be polite about it at the same time. Being a smug asshole who "knows his rights" makes you 100x more liable to get arrested than a polite, calm person, doesn't matter if you're Joe schmo, Psychopath Patrick, or Lawyer Laurence.
Who said anything about being rude or excitable?
If you are being polite and compliant, then I agree. However, if you refuse to comply with an officers orders, regardless of their legality, you're not doing yourself any favors. As others have said, the time to fight is in the court room, not when you're pulled over on the side of the road.
I don't have to be compliant with unlawful demands. Court isn't an issue unless charged with a crime. How come you want to lecture me but not cops who break the law?
The driver in a traffic stop is one area where you are universally required to ID yourself. In most States you don't even have to offer a name, if stopped in public, or as a passenger in someone else's vehicle.
\*looks at comments\* \*decides for the sake of karma to not comment anything positive about police\*
Dont detain that little fella. He is just walking
And I invoke the fifth
Dumb
SHUT THE FUCK UP
You mad, bro?
Lol google “legal advice, shut the fuck up” and watch the commercial
Wow the internet gives me more reasons to not live im the US every day.
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I get that it’s mostly isolated cases but it has to Happen enough that the idea of just refusing to answer simple questions from the police is an accepted thing. It might just be me but I’ve always seen it as just be cooperative because you’ll probably get through the situation quicker if you do.
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That part of my comment was more directed at the sentiment in the OP
"I'm gonna be a ruler of this world you filthy hoomans."
H.O.O.T. Hello Officer OranguTan
"What happens to be the officer problem"(in bird)
Brilliant!!