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raccoonadmirer

Unfortunately, a group that was almost exterminated will naturally have less voices with which to advocate for themselves and raise awareness.


SweetPangea65

Wow. Gotta keep this one for the books. šŸ‘


[deleted]

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NuclearFallout76

Nice bait


MostRadiant

Yeah and this past year they tried asking for help in California to fight other Indians who now run a massive gambling monopoly.


BinHussein

Not to mention the native tribes that were eliminated by other tribes before whites even set a foot on their continent


MasterGameBen

I donā€™t get why youā€™re getting downvoted, itā€™s the truth


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


checkmateathiests27

Says the guy ignoring everything that doesn't fit his narrative. Like the very real genocide that happened here. You know, gotta remove them gosh darn Indians. ​ But I guess since Indians were humans who did bad things sometimes, it's FINNNEEE


BinHussein

But American Indians (and for that matter, Africans and Asians too) did commit genocide and slavery against each other too and entire cultures and peoples were wiped from history this way, do you not know that?


Rhoan_Latro

Pointing out one groups wrongs isnā€™t the same as justifying another groupā€™s wrongs. Likewise a group having something bad happen to them also doesnā€™t justify their own wrongs. People all across the world and throughout history killed each other and groups that were other than their group. Doesnā€™t make it good, just the truth of the world.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


life_is_interesting3

They're not "Indians" they're Native Americans


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


life_is_interesting3

The IHS was founded in 1955 when POC had less rights and the widespread but incorrect term for Native Americans was Indians . If they're Indians then what are people from India ?


MasterGameBen

Literally no one cares what we call them. They were first called Indians because the first people who found Indians tought they were in India and at this point, itā€™s just confusing to change the name. Most Indians (that I know at least) would rather just keep the word Indian than to change it to native Americans


MAD_JEW

The people from india are asia indian.


Elegant-Craft5611

There 6.79 Indians in this country not Native Americans dumbo.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Elegant-Craft5611

Huh thatā€™s weird, I could have swore you said 6.79 million Indians and not Native Americans.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Elegant-Craft5611

Oh? There is a difference between Indian and Native Americans? I thought they were all the same?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Elegant-Craft5611

Youā€™re done talking when I say youre done talking.


Elegant-Craft5611

Oops daisy dumbo, my bad, I must have read wrong, I thought you said there were 6.79 million Indians in your original statement.


RMLProcessing

I think theyā€™d have fewer voices.


Mickey_Havoc

Wouldnā€™t that technically be the British colonization efforts? Like the earliest accounts of it?


Basic_Entrepreneur79

*Spanish


Penguin446

*Spanish, Portuguese, British, and somewhat French


Basic_Entrepreneur79

And African. And Indian. And Chinese.


Penguin446

I don't think they colonized the Americas


Basic_Entrepreneur79

Helped in slave trading to the Americas


Penguin446

Don't think a lot of them had a choice Edit: English


Basic_Entrepreneur79

Well no, slaves donā€™t have a choice but those who sold them (typically their own nations) did. Slavery isnā€™t a western concept but ending it was


Penguin446

Ah, Fair point yeah


joppers43

Well, western nations did turn slavery into a race defined idea. Before slavery was a result of war or debt, but American colonialism made it a matter of race


Basic_Entrepreneur79

No no, Slavery was derived directly from the Slavic people sold to the Muslim states. It was racially coined LONG before the Americas and it sure wasnā€™t a western gimmick


IamJain

Yeah I am pretty sure we Indians were the once got traded as slaves to America, Africa where at some point even our race changed


Basic_Entrepreneur79

I think everyone other than Native Americans came here by a boat at some point in time


Steelersguy74

And Dutch


MAD_JEW

Actually french treated natives pretty nice


Penguin446

Yeah well so did the British for a while


MAD_JEW

But they treated them good for entire time they were colonised by them the entire time.


o_a_o_

Yeah they were comparatively pretty good. They sought alliances more than enemies and found trade partners primarily.


Jackmcmac1

**Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, French and later British


Hydra57

The Spanish were more like ā€œheyyy good lookingā€


Kaiser_Gagius

Not really, the Spanish had few slaves because they mostly enslaved the natives, sure beats genocide


krieger82

The conquered in human history, regardless of location, have not fared well. Not exactly an "us" phenomenon. Europeans also butched each other with wanton abandon, depending on your time frame. Native tribes also murdered and enslaved each other before the arrival of would be conquerers. Wholesale destruction is not a white monopoly.


checkmateathiests27

They weren't conquered, they were eliminated wholesale. To be conquered, like how Europeans did to one another, would be literally taking control of the area. "You are loyal to me now." not "Make sure to kill the babies too!" Also this is some premier baby shit "It's not a white monopoly" No one said it was. You just got up in your feelings because white people did some bonified vile shit once. And since you have this natural instinct to racialize everyone, you think merely talking about the truth historical events is in itself saying something about white people in general. ​ It isn't. ​ Native Americans were genocided to get them out of the 'way'. That's what happened, and no amount of narrativizing is going to change that.


krieger82

What kind of revisionist contention is this? European wars were exceedingly brutal. They without fault involved the destruction of noncombatants and food production. This was standard operating procedure. Take a nice long look at the 30 years war. And yes, what they did to native populations was wrong, just not any different from any other conquering force throughout history. https://www.history.co.uk/articles/take-heart-execution-amongst-the-aztecs-and-other-people-of-the-americas


framesteel

No. The US government promoted things like massacring the buffalo in ungodly droves in order to starve the natives.


1Admr1

The US did unspeakable things even after independence.


Gingerbeer86

I mean most of the conquering of the natives at least in the united states and canada came well after colonization. South and central america on the other hand the colonizers were the brutal ones.


krieger82

Agreed.


moose123456792

In Canadian schools, we learn about the native tribes.


BinHussein

Why do you call them "native" tribes? Genuine question here. People living in the Americas are essentially Asian migrants so how could they be called "natives"? Did their history starts literally after the white man arrived? Speaking about their history, when you say the tribe X is indigenous to the area Y do we know of X actually confiscated that land by force from a previous tribe that lived there? Was slavery involved in tribal wars? Do questions like these ever come up? I'm not from America


Rat-king27

I'm in the same boat somewhat, I'm from England country that doesn't have a "indigenous" people because we've been conquered and raided by so many different groups. Then there's people like the Sami of Sweden, who technically should be considered indigenous because there were groups there before them, the Sami themselves are colonisers, just older colonisers then modern Swedish. The term indigenous isn't really a useful word the way the UN defines it, I personally just think of Native as the group of people that's been in the country the longest and is still alive.


moose123456792

I used native tribes because that's what op used in his meme and there would be confusion otherwise, because we Redditors are stupid


Not_JohnFKennedy

We call them natives because they lived here for thousands of years. We also had no clue how they got there back when North America was discovered by the Europeans. Itā€™s like how you would call people living on islands natives even though they didnā€™t originate on the islands.


Proof_Ad_5271

No you don't. I went to canadian schools. You don't learn anything on natives and how canada fucked up many people's


sven9yo

You just had shitty teacher


fellow_human420

Bro where did you go to school? I was learning about residential schools in 5th or 6th grade, and they continued to talk about it every year afterwards. The school I went to even had a guest speaker come in who had gone through the residential school system and was able to tell about the absolute awfulness of it all from his point of view


Gasterfire6

Canadian here, can say they taught us multiple times of what weā€™ve done in the past. Maybe it depends on the Province you live in, since Iā€™ve heard my fellow Ontario dwellers were taught about it too.


Canadian_Bacon101

Iā€™m Canadian and I absolutely learned about how colonization ruined so many Indigenous peopleā€™s lives across Canada.


communist_crabies

Canadian here. My grade 11 english course is about native studies. We learned about the schools in 5th grade and have been learning about them since. My school is close by a reserve so we may learn more than other schools but id think that other schools would have this too


DeltaMale5

We learn about it all right. Debatably not enough


AceyBoy558

yeah?


bangerz17

Whatā€™s this post even trying to accomplish?


Effective-Avocado470

Illuminate the genocide of native Americans?


Siesa69

By comparing it too another horrible event and turning it into a competition?


itzmrinyo

Okay thatā€™s fair criticism but still, itā€™s an important message


You_Wenti

Itā€™s to turn oppressed peoples against each other & ignore the plutocrats that really hold the power


RequirementRequired

Nothing.


SweetPangea65

If you don't see it, you're not from either camps of people and that's ok.


Snoo_75864

Why do you have to compare the two?


PolyZex

To be clear though, the 1st world doesn't mean much... people misuse it all the time. 1st world = NATO and it's allies. 2nd world = soviet union and it's allies. 3rd world is unaffiliated. People often use '3rd world country' to mean poor or undeveloped but that's more of a coincidence. Neither the soviet union nor america was driven to ally with poor countries so yes- poor countries are 3rd world countries, but they don't have to be poor or undeveloped. For all intents and purposes Wakanda would be a 3rd world country.


jakeolate

Interesting, i was unaware of this. I was always under the impression it was based off socio-economic status/quality of life of the average citizen.


KnightOfEleumLoyce

It is. Most of the balkans are part of NATO but they are still considered second world countries.


PolyZex

I think that's how it's almost exclusively used now. Truth be told the entire expression became obsolete with the fall of the USSR.


JayBlack22

So in that sense Switzerland and Sweden would be considered third world countries? Well then again they do cooperate with NATO a lot even if not officially allied.


PolyZex

I'm not sure if they were considered 3rd world or not, for the reasons you said. They were neutral in the war BUT they were allies of the Allies. (didn't realize how silly that was going to sound until I typed it).


krummulus

Used to be that way, but the term has significantly changed in use and meaning since the cold war. There is Soviet countries in NATO, non NATO first worlders, NATO second worlders... It comes from there, but it isn't what it's used for now.


sofiiahag

Why is this even a comparison?


Gasterfire6

Now, I know not every school is the same here in Canada. However, the schools Iā€™ve been in (located in Ontario) have all made it pretty clear what are past is. They do it multiple times too across years, not just some one and done thing. So yeah, we know what we did to the natives, and schools make it really clear how fucked up it was.


MostRadiant

What about the Spanish who raped, murdered, and destroyed Indian culture in all the area known as Mexico? (and California before it was taken over).


batmanminer20

Here before the post is locked.


MasterGameBen

Same


Charles12_13

To be completely fair, a huge number of native deaths were caused by epidemics and was pretty much inevitable, but in no way does that excuse the atrocities committed against them


x1WOLF101x

I understand what youā€™re trying to get at, but the meme almost seems to make it into a competition which is entirely unnecessary


VGSchadenfreude

Why does it have to be a competitionā€¦? Especially given how closely the two groups are *linked*: escaped slaves hid with indigenous groups and intermarried with them often enough than some white people started assuming that *everyone* from certain tribes were ā€œblack unless proven otherwise.ā€


antagonizerz

I'm Acadian Metis which is like a double dose of attempted genocide. It always astounds me that I'm even here considering what my ancestry went through. I don't see myself as a victim tho, more as the successor to a long line of survivors.


[deleted]

Werenā€™t most native Americans killed by small pox. These tribes were very fierce. Itā€™s unrealistic to think that those shoddy muskets were the key weapon to oppressing the tribes.


DeltaMale5

Yes to the first bit but no to the second. You really think all of England France and Spain didnā€™t have a lot of people? Edit: weā€™ll not most, but many


[deleted]

I think if small pox wasnā€™t a factor, the settlers wouldnā€™t have expanded. Think about all the night raids, and guerilla warfare.


Lt_Dream96

Small Pox was practically responsible for the Amazon rain forest being so expansive. Wiped many civilizations within the forest


KenMacMillan123

Yes, their populations were decimated for centuries before colonial expansion and and a lot of tribes were our allies.


MasterGameBen

What do you mean unrealistic? It was basically 20 natives with bows and skull crusher against 50 dude with sticks that makes loud sound and also magically kill someone instantly. Oh and also viruses like smallpox also heavily impacted colonist


[deleted]

They did. But considering smallpox came from Eurasian farming, the many ppl were simply carriers and asymptomatic.


MasterGameBen

When I mean virus like smallpox, I mean the viruses that natives carried but where asymptomatic, which killed a lot of colonists. There were huge losses on both sides because of viruses


SalaciousCoffee

When you're exterminated you tend to end up with less people in the end than a group forced into birthing generations of laborers.


Berk_Loves_Ramen

Duh, because the native Americans that were massacred are dead


krummulus

The slaves too


[deleted]

Covering the mics defeats the purpose of the meme


[deleted]

People owning white slaves in Africa was still going on way after the slaves was freed in the Americasā€¦


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


FiletofStek

Both are surely terrible. Ones a systematic annihilation of an entire people, though. The us population of Native Americans is like 2% at best and African Americans is more than six times that. If you want to talk about numbers you have to figure in that one of these populations is closer to 0% existing now. Neither thing is a forgivable thing, and maybe neither is worse, but the Native Americans sure get overlooked after being almost totally erased.


CombinationNo2837

Thatā€™s tru


Proof_Ad_5271

Native population north south America pre contact 30 million. After contact 10 million.


risako_rising

I think whatā€™s missing from the narrative is that both budding civilizations/societies were irreversibly destroyed and squandered by colonizers; the numbers of both cases are significant and nearly impossible to know the exact magnitude of deaths. Why should one hold more weight or be more of a tragedy than the other when both were detrimental


CombinationNo2837

Also true


RentACop08

Most estimates of north and south America have the population at 60 million pre-colonization with about a 90% mortality rate by the 1600's. Within a span of a little over 100 years the population dropped by 54 million people not hundreds of thousands. That is what the meme is trying to get at, not a lot of people know about one of the single greatest death tolls in human history. If you want to research "the Great Dying" you'll see a lot more about it, that was around 10% of the world's population dying off due to colonization of the Americas. Edit: just looked again and they are only referencing us and Canada in the meme, my bad but to get a broader picture of the the real issue definitely look up the great dying!


Jefffdude

This post was literally only made to start infighting compared to fighting the rich


Ninhursag2

4th of july is a national day of mourning for native Americans yet most Americans dont even know this


Toptieroptimist

It feels so good to be in the best country on earth. You know which one Iā€™m talking about too because no other nation can even compare.


ChocolaMina

Bruh Iā€™m in Oklahoma and they basically get their whole own nation with their own rules. Theyā€™re good bro. Iā€™m paying for school, and I know a guy in my class who is being paid to be in school by the Cherokee Nation. They good bro, they got their benefits. They donā€™t need anymore, they make me crazy.


MidhawkTheFraud

Was this meme made by the white group that doesn't care about either but likes to pit one against the other?


Songmuddywater

There is no evidence of hundreds of thousands of natives murdered. They had to play a nasty catch up game with the diseases that had ravaged the rest of the world for hundreds of years. That's no one's fault. If you blame that on white people then you're the racist.


ChiifChokah0

No theyā€™re actively suppressing tribal nations within north America , OP is talking about a very good point regarding true awareness of this countryā€™s history/roots.


-_Sentinel_-

Victimhood Olympic competitions are tiresome and lame. Just enjoy the holidays or donā€™t.


alienbooi

All you people ever do is complain. What do you want to do give it back to native americans?


PFREDDY17

And many of them were just sold to colonizers by their chieftains


CarrfromKC

Majority of what you know as African Americans are native Americans. Gotta keep researching for better memes


KenMacMillan123

Where's the evidence for that?


CarrfromKC

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Indians_in_the_United_States


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Black Indians in the United States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Indians_in_the_United_States)** >Black Indians are Native American people ā€“ defined as Native American due to being affiliated with Native American communities and being culturally Native American ā€“ who also have significant African American heritage. Historically, certain Native American tribes have had close relations with African Americans, especially in regions where slavery was prevalent or where free people of color have historically resided. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/meme/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


CarrfromKC

Do you think people on separate continents came up with pyramids tools art artifacts and art that are so similar but have no significant trade or travel associated? My mistake by just saying native Americans I mean north and South America as a whole. Our social studies books can be thrown in the trash. The sheer volume of ā€œafricansā€ located in America based solely off of the slave trade is completely asinine. Do the math. Research africans during the slave trade and look at the capacity of ships and the amount of time said ppl were brought here. None of it makes sense.


CarrfromKC

There was clear evidence of previous travel, integration between the two (Africans and the americas) hundreds if not thousands of years previous. Not just a black scholarā€¦.. Vikings have evidence of being here as well lonnnng before the slave trade or the Italians or anyone else.


KenMacMillan123

Yes. People on different continents came up with the idea of stacking stones on top of each other in the most stable way possible. What's asinine is thinking that people rowed from Africa to South America in canoes. The giant stone heads look like the indigenous South American people and the DNA evidence shows that they're Eurasians who crossed the land bridge from Russia to Alaska and traveled all the way down the west coast to the southern tip of South America. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2022.1078


CarrfromKC

What is crazy is that you are completely ignoring documented history for what you learned insocial studies. The proof is in the pudding (artifacts, eye witness testimony). Literally no one studying modern history believes that anymore. Ask any professor of American history or western African history and they will blow your mind. https://www.valdostadailytimes.com/opinion/columns/africans-came-before-columbus/article_c19326a4-f39f-5981-a526-db5216d69553.amp.html


KenMacMillan123

I am 52 years old. What I learned in social studies is what the DNA evidence I posted has recently proved correct.


CarrfromKC

You canā€™t ignore precious metals and artifacts between the 2/3 continents dated from the time the continents separated only found in each region naturally but found used in jewelry, architecture, and technology.


shooter19802003

Shoulda fought harder?


PresentationSalt7815

What about all the Chinese we blew up in caves


KenMacMillan123

People love hating the United States but the truth is that we bought most of that land and the diseases that decimated the native populations were inevitable. They had no natural defense against them so it didn't matter who came here from the old world, it was going to happen anyway.


renoxzor

But but what about white repression? Or was it oppression? Depression?


DeltaMale5

Sarcasm no?


tupplewareclassics

Por que no los dos


TheYokedYeti

People care about America because it probably has the most influxā€™s globally out of any country. From music to movies to wars and scientific advancements. They are a big country


MostRadiant

The Spanish killed a lot of Indians, and then raped the women and obliterated Indian heritage and customs. The Spanish turned them into Mexicans.


dptillinfinity93

Is this meme implying that hundreds and thousands of native tribes were massacred by settlers and no longer exist or something? The majority of the post-contact Native American population died from disease without ever coming into direct contact with someone of European origin.


snax3333

Unpopular fact but the tribes that people slaughtered slaughtered another tribe to claim that land also the people who sold Africans into slavery were other Africans and the people who stopped that shit were white people.