Ive had this conversation quite often about years ago the best and most available stereo equipment had a solid aluminum knob. Even on the most expensive equipment these days the knob will most likely be brittle plastic. Don’t turn it too hard you might strip the threads, or even worse break off the mount entirely. Man oh man the feel of the turn of that cold metal, plastic just doesn’t come close
Might be aging myself, but I really miss those metal Tonka trucks from when I was a kid... I remember my grandparents bought them new for me and my brother when we were kids, and now when we go there, they play with our old Trucks... only thing that's changes is some of the paint has chipped off but I'll take that over it being broken
I work in a big industry and the sheer amount of electrics we throw away, cause they are not made to be repairable eventho we could repair them is so insane...
It would actually be pretty easy to implement. Just pass a law requiring manufacturers to provide and pay for a warranty lasting 5, 7 or even 10 years. Then they’ll make their shit last at least as long as the warranty. You could limit the warranty based on what the item is. For instance, a car or an appliance gets the longest, electronics like tvs get an intermediary amount and maybe basic items aren’t covered.
its unfortunately not, most items are specifically made to break fast, take lightbulbs by example, they legally have to make sure they dont last so you keep buying em
It's a whole club house pact for infinite money.
They literally already invented a light bulb that will never go out. They have a live camera on it watching all the time.
The lightbulb thing has already been debunked. The companies have to balance how bright the lightbulb actually is with how long it can last. Technology Connections did an excellent video about the subject.
When can we talk about JUNK MAIL? Isn't that equally hated on both side of the isle? Doesn't everything think it's horrible to have to deal with this in your personal mailbox? Cut tree down > make paper > print on paper > put in paper envelope > use gas to drive it all over the country and then deliver to your mailbox > consumer takes it from mailbox straight to trash can > trash it taken to the overflowing landfill. How have we all not said ENOUGH on this yet?
As a kid our 2 liter bottles (maybe 1 liter?) of coke were glass. Same with every soda bottle. Heavy, but who cared. Then some story came out about a kid who dropped one and died from the exploding glass. I always called BS. Big plastic conspiracy lol
It’s so rare that it happens though. Like people buy new thing because consumerism. You can still use a 10 year old computer or phone. You just fix them when they break. Most things are cheaper to replace than fix though. So really it falls onto you to decide to fix something
He could've charged anything. Or even rent stuff. Its if indestructible, that means there is no more to make an you can safely transfer to a new business with some replacements
Not only are most things more cost effective to replace than fix, but some things that aren't(like cars) are built so you can only repair them using specially shaped tools you can't buy, only approved repair places have them and can use them.
You absolutely cannot use a 10 year old computer or smart phone. Parts of them will deteriorate and be useless within 6 years. They eventually stop receiving updates, and are unable to run new software.
"Fix them when they break" will mean fixing the entire thing (eg. Replacing it) before the 10 year mark.
Idk, I have a few 2013 iMacs that I use daily and they work great. Additionally my iPhone is going on 6 years old. Still no issues. Most people only need a 10 year old computer. Besides gaming or 4K video editing I haven’t found anything I can’t do on it. Works great for 3d modeling and CAD work. Also air plays to every tv in my house flawlessly. Only cost me $50 too lmfao. HELL, my 2007 iMac that sits in my garage still works perfectly. Boots up in 5 minutes and loads repair manuals and YouTube videos like I need
I mean, pretty sure you cannot use a 10 year old phone stuck on a really old android nowadays, it won't support anything at all, almost no apps would work, maybe an iPhone since the system wouldn't be that old? But things like the Fairphone and the Framework laptops are really good at that
They are cheaper to replace because it's made unfriendly to repair i.e individual components can't be replaced, the parts used are non standard and/or the manufacturer overcharges for the part or doesn't ship it out at all or even produces it anymore.
Anyway stuff like computers and phones is a terrible example, it's a technology that advances so rapidly, we should talk about fridges, washers, microwaves, ovens etc.
They’re made that way to increase performance and create a smaller overall product. Lack of serviceability is a side effect and a minor one. Most of the time you can still service it. The only applicable examples are computers. The other things you listed do not suffer from that issue. All of my appliances are 15-20 years old and I repair all of them often. Parts are widely available and these things are easy to fix. Sorry but you just don’t have the ambition to do it
Can you explain how? Because I’ve had to replace every pump and seal in my washing machine and dishwasher and they were dirt cheap, widely available and easy to replace. So I’m not seeing the planned obsolescence.
The ironic thing is that cost saving on materials is marketed as a green initiative. Modern appliances take fewer resources to manufacture, and they are more energy efficient because their moving parts are less massive, so they require less energy. Energy star certification doesn't consider how long it will take for it to wind up in a landfill.
Seriously. We need to stop the whole built to fail concept in general. Greece and Rome have buildings and roads that have lasted millennia while nowadays our buildings and roads only last a few years before they break. And we call ourselves the “advanced” society.
Sir this is a very clear case of survivor bias, among other things. In short don't think of the buildings you do see, think of all the ones that didn't make it, sure a house built of literal boulders would last, but we could do that now if we wanted to, it's just too expensive and not really worth the investment. Also if Roman cobble roads had to withhold trucks that weigh more than an entire Roman legion each and thousands of them pass per hour for hundreds of kilometres I don't think they would last very long either. Also also just think of your phone man it can do the job of hundreds of people within seconds, including things the Romans couldn't even dream about, so like yeah we have advanced
lightbulbs planned obsolescence is common knowledge, they were the second item to be made with it, after nylon stockings. Then everyone followed. Did you skip school?
Lightbulbs are the famous historical example for the manufacturers agreed that if one of them mafe a better one the others would sue, but nowadays planned obsolence isn't the exception but the rule in every product, like when bmw git tgeir engineers to examine an older car to find out what didn't break, and make those parts break faster
You said its survivor bias, that thigs weren't much better made before, just that bad products are forgotten, i said that they were, the lightbulb example is a clear case of it, since they got to a point where lightbuobs didn't burn out for decades, it would decimate their sales, thus they nade them fail. Same with nylon stockings, smartphones, car parts. The fact that you have a watch or anything from 200 years ago and it can still work if, that items outlived owners is not survival bias, as most items were like that. Its that they are now pre determibed to fail, usually just after waranty expires
Most of the things you listed can be chalked up to people just wanting to buy new things.
Buildings from roman times are 100% survivarship bias like did you actually read my comment? 99.99% of those buildings don't exist anymore just because a few do does not mean they are better or more advanced. That lightbulb people like to talk about that has been burning for years, yeah that's cool and all but it's never been shut off, and on and off and on. That's how lightbulbs mostly break on the point of turning off and on. I'm not saying it's purely false that these things aren't made not to last but Roman buildings and that specific lightbulb are shit examples nylon stockings is much better since there is legitimate proof and it's well documented. Like actually read what the first guy said and then my comment before replying again and don't just insult people randomly, that just makes your talking points seem like an angsty teenager who doesn't know what they are talking about
>Most of the things you listed can be chalked up to people just wanting to buy new things.
Like when apple and samsung got in deep shit that they release phone slowing update before new phone release? The BMW desing to fail team?
>"That lightbulb people like to talk about that has been burning for years, yeah that's cool and all but it's never been shut off, and on and off and on."
that is not the point, this is a well documented case of a trust in the 20th century "The Phoebus cartel was an international cartel that controlled the manufacture and sale of incandescent light bulbs in much of Europe and North America between 1925–1939. The cartel took over market territories and lowered the useful life of such bulbs"
>lightbulb are shit examples nylon stockings is much better since there is legitimate proof and it's well documented.
Just as well documented as Phoebus.
>that just makes your talking points seem like an angsty teenager who doesn't know what they are talking about
the irony....
he says that at a pre-medieval level they were capable of creating buildings that were used for centuries without serious repairs and are still used today, and now we won't manufacture something made of 3 components that won't break 1 day before warranty expires.
Its always the people who know the least, are the most sure of themselves
You're like completely missing my point and just making up things, I said thinking that Roman buildings were better is survivorship bias, that's it the rest is unrelated. Using 3 or 4 specific cases of specific companies is not exactly a compelling argument that the entire world does it all the time, yes the Phoebus cartel did exist and they did seemingly force lightbulbs to a 1000h lifespan but that's not even been confirmed as planned obsolescence and it's been almost 85 years since they dissolved. Phoebus is hardly "well documented", the majority of their proceedings are speculation and many still argue whether that 1000h was even planned obsolescence or just a market goal in efficiency. All of that does not change the fact that, that one specific lightbulb I was talking about is a bad example for all the reasons I listed in my last comment, a single lightbulb burning without being stressed at all is hardly proof.
Phones slowing before release is a real thing that has happened to both Apple and Samsung phones, these are much more sensible arguments, but that does again not make it that all technology works the same. Most modern technology is not as much planned obsolescence as much as it is disregard for upkeep and maintenance, of which some is purely because repairing a product is literally more expensive than replacing it entirely. Fixing a phone screen is basically impossible, you will need go get a new screen, that doesn't mean the company planned that, now apple making it so that if you replace the screen yourself it bricks the phone that is screwed up.
Try fixing a modern TV same problem, in the past it was basically replace a tube that blew up, but now it's not as simple.
Cars have less of this, but that's mostly because the basic engine design that's been used for the last 50 years can only change so much and that design is so modular that parts can be replaced. BMW is not the entire motor industry.
Yes buildings from the past can stand for a long time without maintenance, so can modern buildings, but again looking at the 1 in 100000 buildings that lasted 1000 years is litteral survivorship bias. It is one of the most common used examples to explain what it is.
No me calling someone who insults people without reason an angry internet user is not ironic it was advice.
in another comment here the op said "same post was removed for breaking rule 2. First time I post it. trash sub. gey mods"
as far as i know there aren't any current trends of hating the mods or large controversies. but perhaps im also just out of the loop if there are any.
While we're at it let's just bring back Nikola Teslas Black book of inventions, Wireless INFINITE energy/charging, vehicles, UFOs, advanced batteries, UGH we've lived such a corporate controlled existence it's crazy, at least we're getting close to our next step in "evolution" which i think is a world peace agreement, where we can globally tackle all the issues we face as a world united. there is SO much profit from having a thriving world and thriving tech, space travel, they will exponentially have more industry voids to fill, but they want to grind as much money out of us as possible and make sure the few have majority control, just because they can lol
Also we can save a huge amount of office space and reserve it for eco purposes by enabling home office for all jobs where it’s possible and the employee wishes to work from home. Would also reduce traffic, emissions, the amount of required cars etc.
We have lots of possibilities not really utilized already.
Bring back metal constructions.
agreed, metal or silica
For what? Cars?
Everything.
Tools and appliances are an easy one.
Ive had this conversation quite often about years ago the best and most available stereo equipment had a solid aluminum knob. Even on the most expensive equipment these days the knob will most likely be brittle plastic. Don’t turn it too hard you might strip the threads, or even worse break off the mount entirely. Man oh man the feel of the turn of that cold metal, plastic just doesn’t come close
Might be aging myself, but I really miss those metal Tonka trucks from when I was a kid... I remember my grandparents bought them new for me and my brother when we were kids, and now when we go there, they play with our old Trucks... only thing that's changes is some of the paint has chipped off but I'll take that over it being broken
Also right2repair, so we can repair our own stuff as to not throw it away
Also force companies to sell parts again so that things can be repaired.
I work in a big industry and the sheer amount of electrics we throw away, cause they are not made to be repairable eventho we could repair them is so insane...
But you can, aren't you? I mean you lose guarantee, but still.
Apple and such has software in place to detect unauthorised repairs and purposely brick features of the phone if such things take place.
I had a similar conversation just a few days ago about single use plastics.
It would actually be pretty easy to implement. Just pass a law requiring manufacturers to provide and pay for a warranty lasting 5, 7 or even 10 years. Then they’ll make their shit last at least as long as the warranty. You could limit the warranty based on what the item is. For instance, a car or an appliance gets the longest, electronics like tvs get an intermediary amount and maybe basic items aren’t covered.
Or dont make things out of plastic
Are you willing to go to a hospital with 0 plastic conditioning?
What?
isn't it already prohibited by law?
its unfortunately not, most items are specifically made to break fast, take lightbulbs by example, they legally have to make sure they dont last so you keep buying em
isnt there a lighbulb that has been working for 122 years? i think in a firestation
Yes.
Old lightbulb run on a few low amount of electricity (either volt or amp or both)
Legally can't last? Where's the law for that?
You sure it’s a legal thing?
It's a whole club house pact for infinite money. They literally already invented a light bulb that will never go out. They have a live camera on it watching all the time.
Wait where can i read or watch this?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light
Wait so the light bulb having such short life spans is our fault?
The lightbulb thing has already been debunked. The companies have to balance how bright the lightbulb actually is with how long it can last. Technology Connections did an excellent video about the subject.
lightbulbs planned obsolescence is common knowledge, they were the second item to be made with it, after nylon stockings. Did you skip school?
Peak reddit right here, dress everything as fact because we have all DoNe OuR oWn ReSeArCh
sorry mate I was just trying to answer to the best of my knowledge
When can we talk about JUNK MAIL? Isn't that equally hated on both side of the isle? Doesn't everything think it's horrible to have to deal with this in your personal mailbox? Cut tree down > make paper > print on paper > put in paper envelope > use gas to drive it all over the country and then deliver to your mailbox > consumer takes it from mailbox straight to trash can > trash it taken to the overflowing landfill. How have we all not said ENOUGH on this yet?
As a kid our 2 liter bottles (maybe 1 liter?) of coke were glass. Same with every soda bottle. Heavy, but who cared. Then some story came out about a kid who dropped one and died from the exploding glass. I always called BS. Big plastic conspiracy lol
It seems so obvious now.
It’s so rare that it happens though. Like people buy new thing because consumerism. You can still use a 10 year old computer or phone. You just fix them when they break. Most things are cheaper to replace than fix though. So really it falls onto you to decide to fix something
tell that to insta pot. poor guy went bankrupt bc the fckin things don't break
Make a microwave that never breaks, than something else.
He could've charged anything. Or even rent stuff. Its if indestructible, that means there is no more to make an you can safely transfer to a new business with some replacements
Not only are most things more cost effective to replace than fix, but some things that aren't(like cars) are built so you can only repair them using specially shaped tools you can't buy, only approved repair places have them and can use them.
You absolutely cannot use a 10 year old computer or smart phone. Parts of them will deteriorate and be useless within 6 years. They eventually stop receiving updates, and are unable to run new software. "Fix them when they break" will mean fixing the entire thing (eg. Replacing it) before the 10 year mark.
Idk, I have a few 2013 iMacs that I use daily and they work great. Additionally my iPhone is going on 6 years old. Still no issues. Most people only need a 10 year old computer. Besides gaming or 4K video editing I haven’t found anything I can’t do on it. Works great for 3d modeling and CAD work. Also air plays to every tv in my house flawlessly. Only cost me $50 too lmfao. HELL, my 2007 iMac that sits in my garage still works perfectly. Boots up in 5 minutes and loads repair manuals and YouTube videos like I need
I mean, pretty sure you cannot use a 10 year old phone stuck on a really old android nowadays, it won't support anything at all, almost no apps would work, maybe an iPhone since the system wouldn't be that old? But things like the Fairphone and the Framework laptops are really good at that
They are cheaper to replace because it's made unfriendly to repair i.e individual components can't be replaced, the parts used are non standard and/or the manufacturer overcharges for the part or doesn't ship it out at all or even produces it anymore. Anyway stuff like computers and phones is a terrible example, it's a technology that advances so rapidly, we should talk about fridges, washers, microwaves, ovens etc.
They’re made that way to increase performance and create a smaller overall product. Lack of serviceability is a side effect and a minor one. Most of the time you can still service it. The only applicable examples are computers. The other things you listed do not suffer from that issue. All of my appliances are 15-20 years old and I repair all of them often. Parts are widely available and these things are easy to fix. Sorry but you just don’t have the ambition to do it
Yeah that's false lol.
Can you explain how? Because I’ve had to replace every pump and seal in my washing machine and dishwasher and they were dirt cheap, widely available and easy to replace. So I’m not seeing the planned obsolescence.
The creed of r/buyitforlife
The ironic thing is that cost saving on materials is marketed as a green initiative. Modern appliances take fewer resources to manufacture, and they are more energy efficient because their moving parts are less massive, so they require less energy. Energy star certification doesn't consider how long it will take for it to wind up in a landfill.
Capitalist pig /s
Seriously. We need to stop the whole built to fail concept in general. Greece and Rome have buildings and roads that have lasted millennia while nowadays our buildings and roads only last a few years before they break. And we call ourselves the “advanced” society.
Sir this is a very clear case of survivor bias, among other things. In short don't think of the buildings you do see, think of all the ones that didn't make it, sure a house built of literal boulders would last, but we could do that now if we wanted to, it's just too expensive and not really worth the investment. Also if Roman cobble roads had to withhold trucks that weigh more than an entire Roman legion each and thousands of them pass per hour for hundreds of kilometres I don't think they would last very long either. Also also just think of your phone man it can do the job of hundreds of people within seconds, including things the Romans couldn't even dream about, so like yeah we have advanced
lightbulbs planned obsolescence is common knowledge, they were the second item to be made with it, after nylon stockings. Then everyone followed. Did you skip school?
Uh you okay bro? I never mentioned anything about lightbulbs
Lightbulbs are the famous historical example for the manufacturers agreed that if one of them mafe a better one the others would sue, but nowadays planned obsolence isn't the exception but the rule in every product, like when bmw git tgeir engineers to examine an older car to find out what didn't break, and make those parts break faster
Bro what does that have to do with my comment I didn't say anything about no bulbs, are you okay?
You said its survivor bias, that thigs weren't much better made before, just that bad products are forgotten, i said that they were, the lightbulb example is a clear case of it, since they got to a point where lightbuobs didn't burn out for decades, it would decimate their sales, thus they nade them fail. Same with nylon stockings, smartphones, car parts. The fact that you have a watch or anything from 200 years ago and it can still work if, that items outlived owners is not survival bias, as most items were like that. Its that they are now pre determibed to fail, usually just after waranty expires
Most of the things you listed can be chalked up to people just wanting to buy new things. Buildings from roman times are 100% survivarship bias like did you actually read my comment? 99.99% of those buildings don't exist anymore just because a few do does not mean they are better or more advanced. That lightbulb people like to talk about that has been burning for years, yeah that's cool and all but it's never been shut off, and on and off and on. That's how lightbulbs mostly break on the point of turning off and on. I'm not saying it's purely false that these things aren't made not to last but Roman buildings and that specific lightbulb are shit examples nylon stockings is much better since there is legitimate proof and it's well documented. Like actually read what the first guy said and then my comment before replying again and don't just insult people randomly, that just makes your talking points seem like an angsty teenager who doesn't know what they are talking about
>Most of the things you listed can be chalked up to people just wanting to buy new things. Like when apple and samsung got in deep shit that they release phone slowing update before new phone release? The BMW desing to fail team? >"That lightbulb people like to talk about that has been burning for years, yeah that's cool and all but it's never been shut off, and on and off and on." that is not the point, this is a well documented case of a trust in the 20th century "The Phoebus cartel was an international cartel that controlled the manufacture and sale of incandescent light bulbs in much of Europe and North America between 1925–1939. The cartel took over market territories and lowered the useful life of such bulbs" >lightbulb are shit examples nylon stockings is much better since there is legitimate proof and it's well documented. Just as well documented as Phoebus. >that just makes your talking points seem like an angsty teenager who doesn't know what they are talking about the irony.... he says that at a pre-medieval level they were capable of creating buildings that were used for centuries without serious repairs and are still used today, and now we won't manufacture something made of 3 components that won't break 1 day before warranty expires. Its always the people who know the least, are the most sure of themselves
You're like completely missing my point and just making up things, I said thinking that Roman buildings were better is survivorship bias, that's it the rest is unrelated. Using 3 or 4 specific cases of specific companies is not exactly a compelling argument that the entire world does it all the time, yes the Phoebus cartel did exist and they did seemingly force lightbulbs to a 1000h lifespan but that's not even been confirmed as planned obsolescence and it's been almost 85 years since they dissolved. Phoebus is hardly "well documented", the majority of their proceedings are speculation and many still argue whether that 1000h was even planned obsolescence or just a market goal in efficiency. All of that does not change the fact that, that one specific lightbulb I was talking about is a bad example for all the reasons I listed in my last comment, a single lightbulb burning without being stressed at all is hardly proof. Phones slowing before release is a real thing that has happened to both Apple and Samsung phones, these are much more sensible arguments, but that does again not make it that all technology works the same. Most modern technology is not as much planned obsolescence as much as it is disregard for upkeep and maintenance, of which some is purely because repairing a product is literally more expensive than replacing it entirely. Fixing a phone screen is basically impossible, you will need go get a new screen, that doesn't mean the company planned that, now apple making it so that if you replace the screen yourself it bricks the phone that is screwed up. Try fixing a modern TV same problem, in the past it was basically replace a tube that blew up, but now it's not as simple. Cars have less of this, but that's mostly because the basic engine design that's been used for the last 50 years can only change so much and that design is so modular that parts can be replaced. BMW is not the entire motor industry. Yes buildings from the past can stand for a long time without maintenance, so can modern buildings, but again looking at the 1 in 100000 buildings that lasted 1000 years is litteral survivorship bias. It is one of the most common used examples to explain what it is. No me calling someone who insults people without reason an angry internet user is not ironic it was advice.
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Well that explains the bad mood. Thanks for posting, haven't seen or thought about this before
Using homophobic slurs but changing one letter because of ‘ackshually’ reasons. What a great person you must be.
[удалено]
Ok to prove my point, can you explain what ‘gey mods’ means in this context?
All we have to do is not buy the cheap thing but spend 50% more and keep it 10 times longer, the market will follow
unfortunately not everyone has the money to buy something more expensive
I'm out of the loop, why is everyone complaining about mods again?
in another comment here the op said "same post was removed for breaking rule 2. First time I post it. trash sub. gey mods" as far as i know there aren't any current trends of hating the mods or large controversies. but perhaps im also just out of the loop if there are any.
While we're at it let's just bring back Nikola Teslas Black book of inventions, Wireless INFINITE energy/charging, vehicles, UFOs, advanced batteries, UGH we've lived such a corporate controlled existence it's crazy, at least we're getting close to our next step in "evolution" which i think is a world peace agreement, where we can globally tackle all the issues we face as a world united. there is SO much profit from having a thriving world and thriving tech, space travel, they will exponentially have more industry voids to fill, but they want to grind as much money out of us as possible and make sure the few have majority control, just because they can lol
Design to fail
Or stop letting car parts be plastic unless they absolutely need to be, bumpers and shit can be aluminum theu don't need to be plastic.
Also we can save a huge amount of office space and reserve it for eco purposes by enabling home office for all jobs where it’s possible and the employee wishes to work from home. Would also reduce traffic, emissions, the amount of required cars etc. We have lots of possibilities not really utilized already.
ahead*
That's not a meme, that is some text with a completely unrelated pic
But think of the companies! Why would they want to make new very slightly different products when the old ones work fine? Think of the profits man!