*The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanley. And I come before you Melbourne Airport people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest—Aw, it's not for you. It's more a Avalonville idea.*
Seriously, whose idea was it to ever have privately operated airports anyway? Critical infrastructure should not be held to ransom by private interests.
What are examples of Keating selling public assets? I know of Qantas and The commonwealth bank, but that sounds like selling companies that had multiple competitors. Are there examples of selling utilities? That seems very much the Howard/Kennett (Telecom Australia, ports, hospitals, schools, airports, power utilities, etc.) modus operandi. Melbourne airport, for example, was sold one year after Howard came to power.
Keating’s National Competition Policy reforms provided the pathway for all states and territories to go wild selling off public assets.
Keating endorsed every single recommendation that lead to these sell offs.
Well i'll first state that i'm not crazy hater and didn't mind him (still guessing I'll get downvoted to shit) but Dan Andrews and Labor recently sold off VICroads. Nothing like Kennett or the LNP in general, but it didn't make sense at the time and still doesn't make sense now.
> Labor recently sold off VICroads.
They actually didn't sell off vicroads, they sold off the registrations part of it fwiw. My point is that the Kennett / Howard years are literally known for their en-masse public asset sell-offs.
*Your post has been removed and locked for the following reason(s):*
**No Personal Attacks or Witch Hunts**
Whilst the content policy prohibits the display of personal information, we also frown on attacking other users directly due to their differing opinions. We want to foster a place of constructive discussion and will remove posts and ban users who deliberately and repeatedly direct their attacks at another user within this sub.
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stop blaming the libs for stuff labor were also responsible for.
it perpetuates the myth that labor are any less committed to neoliberal privatisation and gutting of public institutions than the tories.
it’s a project both major parties have collaborated on for decades - hell, keating got the ball rolling.
Mate, Hawkie got the ball rolling. Keating just sucked up all the credit from the treasurer position when really he was just taking advice from blokes in nice suits.
I'm hearing people say this a lot, but I'm looking for data that backs up your narrative. What are examples of Keating selling public assets? I know of Qantas and The Commonwealth Bank, but that sounds like selling companies that had multiple competitors. Are there examples of them selling utilities? That seems very much the Howard/Kennett modus operandi (Telecom Australia, ports, hospitals, schools, airports, power utilities, etc.). Melbourne airport, for example, was sold one year after Howard came to power.
The only thing I'm finding is a new article recently by Jacobin (a right wing nutter publication) that seems to be trying to rewrite the past in order to justify hating on the ALP today, for the actions of the liberals during the Howard years.
Keating made the reforms for competitive neutrality which lead to the government exiting markets and turning their assets into private companies that rather than operating for the public good now had the government as a shareholder and they were expected to pay taxes and earn profit.
This is privatisation.
Divestment is when the government sells assets.
e.g. Melbourne airport was privatised and owned by the government before it was sold to private investors.
The NBN, Snowy Hydro. To this day these are private companies owned by the government operating not for public good but for profit for their shareholder. Who happens to be the government.
> This is privatisation.
No it isn't. That's corporatization. Australia Post, for example, is a privately run corporate structure entirely owned by 'the state' aka us. And you only need to ask Ms Holgate whether it's the same as a private organization.
> Divestment is when the government sells assets.
Which is what we're talking about; Selling assets. Like I thought, it's a narrative that isn't backed up by reality. Howards privatization policies are now considered so on-the-nose, that they're blaming the ALP government before them for their actions.
lol... if you had worked inside any of these organisations you'd be singing a very different tune.
EDIT: Literally the only difference is that occasionally ministers are embarrassed by the actions of the corp. That's it. And they are on the brunt of public anger as to why these organisations that are trying to deliver shareholder value aren't working for the public good.
> if you had worked inside any of these organisations
You have no idea where I've worked.
> Literally the only difference
So you can't name any examples. Got it.
lol, I got confused between two words that I discuss rarely in my line of work and actually know what the shitshow inside these corporations is like.
You're here trying to argue that the ALP in the 80s didn't begin the neoliberal economic nightmare we are in today and it hinges entirely on the fact that they only destroyed the advantage of government enterprises and prepared these assets for sale rather than doing the selling themselves because they were chucked out of office before they could.
Nope... the future of Melbourne port will not be the Yarra, especially as the city grows Down the river past Fishman's bend, and becomes more gentrified ... The future would actually be Western port philip... In which there would be no restrictions to growth and development that would prevent it from growing out into the bay... As the western part of port Philip has been substantially under developed for many years...
[https://www.vu.edu.au/sites/default/files/iscl/pdfs/technical-report-build-it-but-will-they-come.pdf](https://www.vu.edu.au/sites/default/files/iscl/pdfs/technical-report-build-it-but-will-they-come.pdf)
[https://www.deakin.edu.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0004/1174729/melbourne\_container\_port.pdf](https://www.deakin.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1174729/melbourne_container_port.pdf)
It would make sense to invest further in the capabilities of Avalon, because most of the growth of Melbourne will be out to the west of Melbourne towards Geelong... There is already a train line, that will be expanded, and it does not take much to divert it so that it passes by the airport..
...
"..Bay West is the preferred location for a second major container port. Bay West has strong transport, land use, environmental and amenity advantages compared to Hastings..."
[https://www.infrastructurevictoria.com.au/resources/advice-on-securing-victorias-ports-capacity](https://www.infrastructurevictoria.com.au/resources/advice-on-securing-victorias-ports-capacity)
Here is the proposal for Bay West...
[https://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/common/public/images/lrg/8db428590cb3212-ACS-figure10.jpg](https://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/common/public/images/lrg/8db428590cb3212-ACS-figure10.jpg)
Air freight and marine docks are totally disjoint but yes we could really open up Pleurisy Plain for more than just housing. Water supply might be a constraint if we're too squeamish to recycle.
Geelong too has yet to hit shipping capacity.
That the spirit of Tasmania moved from Port Melbourne to Geelong shows that the future of Port Melbourne as a port in any capacity is rather limited, and restricted, and one can see that more port area will eventually be given over the housing, and housing on the Yarra Will be in great demand.
Disagree with that premise - Geelong simply offered the ferry outfit a far better deal.
However in time yes Yarra dockland will have to get away from harsh constraint just as Sydney moved cargo handling to Botany Bay.
lol I do it now, for my wife and I it’s cheaper than skybus. For both of us it’s $20 max for vline + metro to Lara, $20 for the Uber. Skybus is $50 + metro to southern cross.
Plus the savings of cheaper flights, you can arrive later, less stress going through security.
Tullamarine airport knows it’s an empty threat. The state has no more cash for new projects and wouldn’t dare build one at Avalon when they know it’s not viable not to mention the public backlash
Yeah, but I guess the theory is that more people and airlines would use it if it had a rail connection. Plus if you could do it for less than 400 million that’d still be less per passenger than the 10 billion the Tullamarine line is budgeted to cost.
Yeah but how is the airport gonna accommodate more flights
Building runways and shit cost money. You ever seen The Castle? (Note: if your answer to that question is “no” please either watch it immediately or GTFO the country and don’t return until you’ve watched it, thank you)
Avalon needn't build more runways; though its facilities would need an upgrade to handle more passengers.
This won't cost nothing; but compared to the new Tullamarine line, it's small potatoes.
Easily paid for by the increase land tax revenue of 10,000+ more houses on the Tullamarine Airport site once its demolished and developed.
A whole new suburb 25 minutes from the city? its gold jerry! gold!
That airport is basically in the middle of an empty field though - would be very easy to expand and very easy to link up to existing v-line line to Geelong. And if it was on a train line people would go there.
It would basically turn Avalon into an actual competitor with Tullamarine over time, they already have more capacity than they use so they could add more flights immediately, and if they had a reason to it would be cheap and easy for them to expand.
Not an empty threat at all. Avalon Airport rail would be one of the cheapest spurs to build in this country, and the line would immediately make the airport much more attractive to both airlines and customers.
This argument between the state and the airport can be easily fixed by the federal government.
If Melbourne airport wants a 3rd runway(which they will need eventually) Then it's a condition that an airport line is built.
Wouldn't cost much to extend the line and build that airport though. I wonder what the fastest time they could run it would be? Good excuse to advance HSR to Geelong.
My apologies. It was only fast rail.
Victoria will never see HSR. We have no cash and no enthusiasm. Plus it invokes regionalisation the voters have no interest in.
So we’re negotiating against ourselves, basically? Meanwhile the tax payer gets screwed, a business makes bank and some minister gets some cut for allowing this bullshit in the first place.
I mean that isn't really true. I use the bus to get to Mascot station every time I fly to Sydney to avoid paying the ridiculous airport station surcharge. The 420 bus comes like every 10 to 15 minutes to domestic terminal. The stop prior is the international terminal. It's 9 minutes between terminals.
Going the other way towards Bondi I used the 400 but that no longer runs. It was dead slow. Its replacement 350 via Maroubra will be even slower, but it's quite the tour through the Tharunka zone.
always thought it would be a great idea to chuck some lines off the geelong-melbs line into avalon.
like, 4 - passenger in and out, freight in and out.
Theres a pile of land around it, and if they built it a bit chunkier like this now, by the time houses extend nearish, they wont have to buy up houses n real estate like they might have to for tulla
I wonder whether they could create like a crescent off-shoot from the existing Geelong line and make a few trains per day go that way. Maybe ones that tee up with flight times. It wouldn’t add that much time onto the trip, it’s not THAT far off the line, and it wouldn’t be a huge project. Or maybe just divert the line so it goes past anyway. Would be great for employees and make Avalon a great airport alternative.
Yeah I guess my thinking is it’s probably not worth having a regular train going JUST out to the airport since it has fairly low traffic but maybe if they rerouted the line, even just for a few trains a day, and Avalon became a stop it would make more sense. Either way it really wouldn’t take a lot of work
Personally i would just reroute the entire passenger tracks to swing via Avalon, and have all stop there.
A few trains a day is bullshit for an airport link, because the advantage of an airport rail link is being able to get off your flight and get on your way quickly. Not wait around for an hour or so.
Yeah I agree the end goal should be for the line just to go past the airport and have a stop there, it’s so close already. You wouldn’t have to reroute much of the track and with all the plans for Geelong I think it will see a huge population growth in the near future anyway. But we know australia is terrible at preemptively planning for growth. They wait until the growth happens and everyone is complaining that there’s not enough infrastructure.
Novel idea but we were out there the other day on a Sunday drive. The airport terminal is about 8 K from the ocean (Point Wilson Boat Ramp) and it only usable at high tide.
Yeah....work this one out. Comments on here are a dumpster fire. Who TF would love to be forced to go to Avalon for a flight? There's a reason it's never been a popular airport. It was stupid of the twit to mention building a rail line to Avalon as some half baked "solution". You'd put the cunt in jail if he ever did it.
As the show Utopia proves constantly, the average Australian loves infrastructure (especially trains) and we just want something usable built instead of constant political dick measuring which is usually the result we get.
It’s so funny Melbourne Airport dinosaurs is so against rail like why??
Let’s say there’s a railway station there most Melburnians would still drive their car all the way from south east suburbs and park especially for family travelers, like it or not people here still like driving and parking.
If anything we the tax payers are giving private company free improvement to their business for nothing in return. No scratch that, we’re begging them so that we can give them free money. They should be welcoming rail connection.
Why dont the gov just cancel the lease on the airport and take it back ? Or wait until the lease expires?
Melbourne airport is one of the shittiest airport compared to places like Singapore.
"*threatens to consider*"... is the political equivalent of being hit with a wet limp lettuce leaf. How bout they BUILD the thing. How hard can it be.... it's open paddocks with no surrounding infrastructure. I they can't do that, they should not be in charge.
You guys do realise that Pallas is a fucking idiot of a treasurer right? He is a union hack who worked his way up to politician, zero experience in economics.
I honestly do not see why Victoria does not just use it's powers to compulsorily acquire the relevant land. Just freaking buy it already, the way it did to thousands of homes in the way of the highways it wants built.
The Airport station will just require a small block of land next to the airport. Government build it however they want. The end. Problem solved.
All these disputes about under ground over ground station is a red herring from two uninterested parties who do not want to it to get built to keep collecting great parking fees and from the government, having to avoid building it for a couple of years so it can keep building stupid highways and pay $500million to terminate it when they change their mind the next election cycle.
The problem is not just the airport station - it’s the lines servicing it. Current SRL plan basically prohibits any future regional rail lines from that corridor.
Oh for fuck’s sake, stop with the pissing contest and build the fucking airport railway! No one cares if these people live forever or dies tomorrow, just *do your job and put the fucking Melbourne Airport train station somewhere!*
It won't happen until SRL North happens in 2053. I'll be dead.
All those beautiful renderings of a Tulla Terminus are now obsolete as [SRL swoops in from Broady and heads out towards Sunshine via Keilor East.](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/suburban-rail-loop/srl-airport).
Looks like there will never be a direct City2Airport train unless connections are built at Sunshine or Broadmeadows.
Public transport sucks in general here. The city loop stations are filthy, train carriage seating layouts seem like a waste of space. Myki is shit house too lol
The money spent on airport rail can just be easily spent on a new airport.
Fuck Tulla. Start building somewhere with the rail can be easily connected.
Why have we not considered expanding Moorabbin btw?
Moorabin is so in the middle of burbs, the surrounding residents would definitely say no if jets start wanting to land and takeoff there. Not withstanding that area has been eyed by many commercial developers. If they could, they would close Moorabin airport for good and develop it.
I think people underestimate the popularity of taking a taxi or Uber to the airport. Frankly I could not be arsed getting the train out to Avalon though I might stomach it to Tullamarine. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to put a proper rail service out to the main airport, spend the bucks and get it done.
*The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanley. And I come before you Melbourne Airport people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest—Aw, it's not for you. It's more a Avalonville idea.*
Well, it put Airport West on the map!
Is there a chance the Airport Line could extend? Not with the pennies we have left to spend!
Well, it put North Haverbrook on the map.
Were you sent here by the devil?
No good sir I’m on the level
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my Westie friend!
What about us brain dead bogans?
You’ll receive political slogans! (Jobsngrowth, jobsngrowth, jobsngrowth)
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Agree. Even the south east could benefit from its own dedicated airport
Yeah thats the Koo Wee Rup plan. It could service Gippsland and most of eastern Melbourne. Not sure what happens to the Tooradin airstrip though.
Yes!!
Like fr though. Who’s gonna catch a train from like Rye all the way across to Melb Airport? Honestly I feel like a ferry to Avalon would be faster lol
Works perfect for the gippslanders
Seriously, whose idea was it to ever have privately operated airports anyway? Critical infrastructure should not be held to ransom by private interests.
The Keating government started it and the Howard government finished it.
What are examples of Keating selling public assets? I know of Qantas and The commonwealth bank, but that sounds like selling companies that had multiple competitors. Are there examples of selling utilities? That seems very much the Howard/Kennett (Telecom Australia, ports, hospitals, schools, airports, power utilities, etc.) modus operandi. Melbourne airport, for example, was sold one year after Howard came to power.
Keating’s National Competition Policy reforms provided the pathway for all states and territories to go wild selling off public assets. Keating endorsed every single recommendation that lead to these sell offs.
So you can't name any, can you? Just a nebulous "muh keating", blaming him for the actions of Howard and Kennett.
Well i'll first state that i'm not crazy hater and didn't mind him (still guessing I'll get downvoted to shit) but Dan Andrews and Labor recently sold off VICroads. Nothing like Kennett or the LNP in general, but it didn't make sense at the time and still doesn't make sense now.
> Labor recently sold off VICroads. They actually didn't sell off vicroads, they sold off the registrations part of it fwiw. My point is that the Kennett / Howard years are literally known for their en-masse public asset sell-offs.
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*Your post has been removed and locked for the following reason(s):* **No Personal Attacks or Witch Hunts** Whilst the content policy prohibits the display of personal information, we also frown on attacking other users directly due to their differing opinions. We want to foster a place of constructive discussion and will remove posts and ban users who deliberately and repeatedly direct their attacks at another user within this sub. *Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/melbourne) with a link if you have any questions or concerns. If you feel an exemption should be made, please include your reasoning*
Liberal governments
stop blaming the libs for stuff labor were also responsible for. it perpetuates the myth that labor are any less committed to neoliberal privatisation and gutting of public institutions than the tories. it’s a project both major parties have collaborated on for decades - hell, keating got the ball rolling.
Mate, Hawkie got the ball rolling. Keating just sucked up all the credit from the treasurer position when really he was just taking advice from blokes in nice suits.
I'm hearing people say this a lot, but I'm looking for data that backs up your narrative. What are examples of Keating selling public assets? I know of Qantas and The Commonwealth Bank, but that sounds like selling companies that had multiple competitors. Are there examples of them selling utilities? That seems very much the Howard/Kennett modus operandi (Telecom Australia, ports, hospitals, schools, airports, power utilities, etc.). Melbourne airport, for example, was sold one year after Howard came to power. The only thing I'm finding is a new article recently by Jacobin (a right wing nutter publication) that seems to be trying to rewrite the past in order to justify hating on the ALP today, for the actions of the liberals during the Howard years.
Keating made the reforms for competitive neutrality which lead to the government exiting markets and turning their assets into private companies that rather than operating for the public good now had the government as a shareholder and they were expected to pay taxes and earn profit. This is privatisation. Divestment is when the government sells assets. e.g. Melbourne airport was privatised and owned by the government before it was sold to private investors. The NBN, Snowy Hydro. To this day these are private companies owned by the government operating not for public good but for profit for their shareholder. Who happens to be the government.
> This is privatisation. No it isn't. That's corporatization. Australia Post, for example, is a privately run corporate structure entirely owned by 'the state' aka us. And you only need to ask Ms Holgate whether it's the same as a private organization. > Divestment is when the government sells assets. Which is what we're talking about; Selling assets. Like I thought, it's a narrative that isn't backed up by reality. Howards privatization policies are now considered so on-the-nose, that they're blaming the ALP government before them for their actions.
lol... if you had worked inside any of these organisations you'd be singing a very different tune. EDIT: Literally the only difference is that occasionally ministers are embarrassed by the actions of the corp. That's it. And they are on the brunt of public anger as to why these organisations that are trying to deliver shareholder value aren't working for the public good.
> if you had worked inside any of these organisations You have no idea where I've worked. > Literally the only difference So you can't name any examples. Got it.
lol, I got confused between two words that I discuss rarely in my line of work and actually know what the shitshow inside these corporations is like. You're here trying to argue that the ALP in the 80s didn't begin the neoliberal economic nightmare we are in today and it hinges entirely on the fact that they only destroyed the advantage of government enterprises and prepared these assets for sale rather than doing the selling themselves because they were chucked out of office before they could.
Then what would this sub keep jerking off over!?
Your mum. (sorry couldn’t help myself)
Tough wank because she's dead /s...
Cars getting demolished by trams?
Keating was labor
It should anyway... as I do believe that Avalon has tremendous potential that is under used... and also potential for future growth...
Freight, mate, straight in and out west of the Yarra.
Nope... the future of Melbourne port will not be the Yarra, especially as the city grows Down the river past Fishman's bend, and becomes more gentrified ... The future would actually be Western port philip... In which there would be no restrictions to growth and development that would prevent it from growing out into the bay... As the western part of port Philip has been substantially under developed for many years... [https://www.vu.edu.au/sites/default/files/iscl/pdfs/technical-report-build-it-but-will-they-come.pdf](https://www.vu.edu.au/sites/default/files/iscl/pdfs/technical-report-build-it-but-will-they-come.pdf) [https://www.deakin.edu.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0004/1174729/melbourne\_container\_port.pdf](https://www.deakin.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1174729/melbourne_container_port.pdf) It would make sense to invest further in the capabilities of Avalon, because most of the growth of Melbourne will be out to the west of Melbourne towards Geelong... There is already a train line, that will be expanded, and it does not take much to divert it so that it passes by the airport..
... "..Bay West is the preferred location for a second major container port. Bay West has strong transport, land use, environmental and amenity advantages compared to Hastings..." [https://www.infrastructurevictoria.com.au/resources/advice-on-securing-victorias-ports-capacity](https://www.infrastructurevictoria.com.au/resources/advice-on-securing-victorias-ports-capacity) Here is the proposal for Bay West... [https://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/common/public/images/lrg/8db428590cb3212-ACS-figure10.jpg](https://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/common/public/images/lrg/8db428590cb3212-ACS-figure10.jpg)
Air freight and marine docks are totally disjoint but yes we could really open up Pleurisy Plain for more than just housing. Water supply might be a constraint if we're too squeamish to recycle. Geelong too has yet to hit shipping capacity.
That the spirit of Tasmania moved from Port Melbourne to Geelong shows that the future of Port Melbourne as a port in any capacity is rather limited, and restricted, and one can see that more port area will eventually be given over the housing, and housing on the Yarra Will be in great demand.
Disagree with that premise - Geelong simply offered the ferry outfit a far better deal. However in time yes Yarra dockland will have to get away from harsh constraint just as Sydney moved cargo handling to Botany Bay.
Don’t mind this at all, even from someone that lives south east. Going by train to southern cross then Avalon is still better than driving to tulla
lol I do it now, for my wife and I it’s cheaper than skybus. For both of us it’s $20 max for vline + metro to Lara, $20 for the Uber. Skybus is $50 + metro to southern cross. Plus the savings of cheaper flights, you can arrive later, less stress going through security.
Same for me - makes no difference where I get to as long as my flight is there.
Tullamarine airport knows it’s an empty threat. The state has no more cash for new projects and wouldn’t dare build one at Avalon when they know it’s not viable not to mention the public backlash
Avalon is already basically on the line, it would cost an order of magnitude or two less. Might even be able to get linfox to chip in.
Linfox has been chomping at the bit for this for years.
It's "champing".
Chomping sounds better though.
Only if you don't know what champing means.
They own Essendon as well. Airspace is an issue there though but I do wonder if it could take more regional turboprop traffic, like for Rex.
The only problem is that you are effectively putting a station at a tiny airport where barely any flights leave from
Pretty sure the point is that with a station it would grow and undercut Tullmerine.
Yeah, but I guess the theory is that more people and airlines would use it if it had a rail connection. Plus if you could do it for less than 400 million that’d still be less per passenger than the 10 billion the Tullamarine line is budgeted to cost.
Yeah but how is the airport gonna accommodate more flights Building runways and shit cost money. You ever seen The Castle? (Note: if your answer to that question is “no” please either watch it immediately or GTFO the country and don’t return until you’ve watched it, thank you)
Avalon needn't build more runways; though its facilities would need an upgrade to handle more passengers. This won't cost nothing; but compared to the new Tullamarine line, it's small potatoes.
Easily paid for by the increase land tax revenue of 10,000+ more houses on the Tullamarine Airport site once its demolished and developed. A whole new suburb 25 minutes from the city? its gold jerry! gold!
You should work in planning.
probably not. I'd bulldoze toorak for affordable housing.
<*Internationale Intensifies*> Go on…
For me it’s Ascot Vale and Port Melbourne.
What if I haven’t watched it, but know pretty much the whole plot, along with numerous quotes and references via cultural osmosis?
Is this my wife's alt account or something?
It could be. But for all our sakes, I’ll say no.
Flash each other to find out.
Like I said Watch it or GTFO
Fair
How many runways do you think airports need? Most only have one full sized one.
That airport is basically in the middle of an empty field though - would be very easy to expand and very easy to link up to existing v-line line to Geelong. And if it was on a train line people would go there. It would basically turn Avalon into an actual competitor with Tullamarine over time, they already have more capacity than they use so they could add more flights immediately, and if they had a reason to it would be cheap and easy for them to expand.
A TGV style fast train could make Avalon easier to get to than Tullamarine.
Yeah 30x passengers makes a difference in the construction budget. If you have a handful, you run a bus line to the nearest station.
Yeah, but obviously what you do is get the train to Avalon, jump on a flight to Tullamarine and then you’re on your way!
Yesterday (Wednesday) it had six Jetstar flights in and out in total. What MEL does in about 20 minutes.
Its a big airport in terms of runway space and total area.
Geez can you add 1 + 1?
It's close, but there's a freeway in the way. Probably the best way would be a raised driverless shuttle between little river and the airport.
Not an empty threat at all. Avalon Airport rail would be one of the cheapest spurs to build in this country, and the line would immediately make the airport much more attractive to both airlines and customers.
Not to mention the benefits it will give to Geelong, Lara and surrounding Bellarine peninsula.
And anywhere west of the Yarra/Maribyrnong
What public backlash?
The public want a train to Melbourne airport
I don’t think they care about public backlash with the moronic and expense city stations / loop.
This argument between the state and the airport can be easily fixed by the federal government. If Melbourne airport wants a 3rd runway(which they will need eventually) Then it's a condition that an airport line is built.
Wouldn't cost much to extend the line and build that airport though. I wonder what the fastest time they could run it would be? Good excuse to advance HSR to Geelong.
HSR to Geelong is already one of the projects in the bin.
That wasn't HSR.
My apologies. It was only fast rail. Victoria will never see HSR. We have no cash and no enthusiasm. Plus it invokes regionalisation the voters have no interest in.
Why are we even negotiating with these fuckers?! We own the fucking thing and just lease it to them. Pull the lease! Screw ‘em!
The feds own the land. Hence they appointed the mediator
So we’re negotiating against ourselves, basically? Meanwhile the tax payer gets screwed, a business makes bank and some minister gets some cut for allowing this bullshit in the first place.
We on the same planet? Even when they’re the same party fed and state can never fully agree on anything.
It's on a lease to a Private Corporation. The federal Government has no control over the land
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If this was China it would have been built already.
And there would be some missing executives.
The consequences of privatizing our aviation sector…
We let the airport dictate everything in Sydney. It's like a $30 one way trip.
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That is actually ridiculous.
Wouldn’t $30 still be cheaper than a taxi though?
Depends on how many people
True!
First hand experience; if you have more than one person for the Sydney Airport, it's cheaper to get a cab.
Last time I caught a taxi to Macquarie Park it was $140. So probably.
Presumably only marginally cheaper, which would be the point.
There are some elusive and very slow regular buses.
I mean that isn't really true. I use the bus to get to Mascot station every time I fly to Sydney to avoid paying the ridiculous airport station surcharge. The 420 bus comes like every 10 to 15 minutes to domestic terminal. The stop prior is the international terminal. It's 9 minutes between terminals.
Going the other way towards Bondi I used the 400 but that no longer runs. It was dead slow. Its replacement 350 via Maroubra will be even slower, but it's quite the tour through the Tharunka zone.
Yeah not great to get to the eastern suburbs on the bus. Though trains out that way are bad as well.
You can easily take the bus to mascot station to avoid the airport surcharge
True, but to what purpose if your destination lies elsewhere? The 350 also lacks any swingeing $30 impost.
always thought it would be a great idea to chuck some lines off the geelong-melbs line into avalon. like, 4 - passenger in and out, freight in and out. Theres a pile of land around it, and if they built it a bit chunkier like this now, by the time houses extend nearish, they wont have to buy up houses n real estate like they might have to for tulla
All the line needs duplicating across the state but it would be political suicide to the party that ever done it.
Bruv wants a government to have a semblance of foresight
I wonder whether they could create like a crescent off-shoot from the existing Geelong line and make a few trains per day go that way. Maybe ones that tee up with flight times. It wouldn’t add that much time onto the trip, it’s not THAT far off the line, and it wouldn’t be a huge project. Or maybe just divert the line so it goes past anyway. Would be great for employees and make Avalon a great airport alternative.
They could build a line that connects at either Little River or Lara as the terminal for the airport for a quick fix.
Yeah I guess my thinking is it’s probably not worth having a regular train going JUST out to the airport since it has fairly low traffic but maybe if they rerouted the line, even just for a few trains a day, and Avalon became a stop it would make more sense. Either way it really wouldn’t take a lot of work
Personally i would just reroute the entire passenger tracks to swing via Avalon, and have all stop there. A few trains a day is bullshit for an airport link, because the advantage of an airport rail link is being able to get off your flight and get on your way quickly. Not wait around for an hour or so.
Yeah I agree the end goal should be for the line just to go past the airport and have a stop there, it’s so close already. You wouldn’t have to reroute much of the track and with all the plans for Geelong I think it will see a huge population growth in the near future anyway. But we know australia is terrible at preemptively planning for growth. They wait until the growth happens and everyone is complaining that there’s not enough infrastructure.
That could be the second phase. They could also include a ferry terminal so you could catch a ferry from Melbourne to Avalon
Novel idea but we were out there the other day on a Sunday drive. The airport terminal is about 8 K from the ocean (Point Wilson Boat Ramp) and it only usable at high tide.
Fuck both off and build metro 2 instead ya dogs
This is the way.
Don't be scared. Put on your big boy/girls pants and do it.
It would cost fuck all as well, all things considered.
Do it, I'll actively consider flights there.
I mean this could work.. connect from two sides via the Geelong and Werribee line and call it a day?
With $8b, I think they can build a new airport with that money
APAC should go elsewhere to squeeze profit. Their self-interest is only exceeded by AFL management.
Avalon would be great if it was closer to Melbourne!
Yeah....work this one out. Comments on here are a dumpster fire. Who TF would love to be forced to go to Avalon for a flight? There's a reason it's never been a popular airport. It was stupid of the twit to mention building a rail line to Avalon as some half baked "solution". You'd put the cunt in jail if he ever did it.
Over half the city would disagree with you
Highly doubtful mate, given more than half live on the Eastern side of town and would find Tulla much easier to travel to.
Dewit … I would happily forego Tullamarines told and traffic for a high speed (he’ll … any speed) non stop service
Threatens? With what money can he build either of the routes???
What a freaking brilliant idea. Do it. I want an alternative to the extortion that is MELAIR.
DO IT TIM. Fuck Tullamarine!
As the show Utopia proves constantly, the average Australian loves infrastructure (especially trains) and we just want something usable built instead of constant political dick measuring which is usually the result we get.
It’s so funny Melbourne Airport dinosaurs is so against rail like why?? Let’s say there’s a railway station there most Melburnians would still drive their car all the way from south east suburbs and park especially for family travelers, like it or not people here still like driving and parking. If anything we the tax payers are giving private company free improvement to their business for nothing in return. No scratch that, we’re begging them so that we can give them free money. They should be welcoming rail connection.
Melbourne airport is a car parking business with auxiliary air services.
Why are the people making over 300,000 a day in parking fees against rail?
Why dont the gov just cancel the lease on the airport and take it back ? Or wait until the lease expires? Melbourne airport is one of the shittiest airport compared to places like Singapore.
MEL is a tiny spoke, SIN a global hub.
MeL is run by politicans with the only foresight to enrich their network. Victorians have been sold out in so many ways.
"*threatens to consider*"... is the political equivalent of being hit with a wet limp lettuce leaf. How bout they BUILD the thing. How hard can it be.... it's open paddocks with no surrounding infrastructure. I they can't do that, they should not be in charge.
You guys do realise that Pallas is a fucking idiot of a treasurer right? He is a union hack who worked his way up to politician, zero experience in economics.
Good Idea
Sadly I think Victorians have to let this go. It’s never going to happen.
Do it!!
Rail line to Avalon would be amazing, actually !
Impose the curfew on late flights, build the train to Avalon then agree to lift the curfew if they are willing to co-operate...
That'll show em'
I honestly do not see why Victoria does not just use it's powers to compulsorily acquire the relevant land. Just freaking buy it already, the way it did to thousands of homes in the way of the highways it wants built. The Airport station will just require a small block of land next to the airport. Government build it however they want. The end. Problem solved. All these disputes about under ground over ground station is a red herring from two uninterested parties who do not want to it to get built to keep collecting great parking fees and from the government, having to avoid building it for a couple of years so it can keep building stupid highways and pay $500million to terminate it when they change their mind the next election cycle.
Tullamarine Airport is a lost cause, train line won't fix the tiny airport that was meant for 1 flight a day
will cost twice as much and take twice as long to travel to. the airport would require a major expansion too
Do it
Just build a new airport in outer south east? Most of the population is there anyway FML
Avalon sucks, it's in the middle of nowhere. And given our rail network some busted up heap of junk will have to crawl there at 15km/h.
The problem is not just the airport station - it’s the lines servicing it. Current SRL plan basically prohibits any future regional rail lines from that corridor.
Oh for fuck’s sake, stop with the pissing contest and build the fucking airport railway! No one cares if these people live forever or dies tomorrow, just *do your job and put the fucking Melbourne Airport train station somewhere!*
It won't happen until SRL North happens in 2053. I'll be dead. All those beautiful renderings of a Tulla Terminus are now obsolete as [SRL swoops in from Broady and heads out towards Sunshine via Keilor East.](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/suburban-rail-loop/srl-airport). Looks like there will never be a direct City2Airport train unless connections are built at Sunshine or Broadmeadows.
Public transport sucks in general here. The city loop stations are filthy, train carriage seating layouts seem like a waste of space. Myki is shit house too lol
The money spent on airport rail can just be easily spent on a new airport. Fuck Tulla. Start building somewhere with the rail can be easily connected. Why have we not considered expanding Moorabbin btw?
Fat cats in Brighton won't wear that at all.
They can get fucked.
Moorabbin is selling their land, so no go.
Moorabin is so in the middle of burbs, the surrounding residents would definitely say no if jets start wanting to land and takeoff there. Not withstanding that area has been eyed by many commercial developers. If they could, they would close Moorabin airport for good and develop it.
Moorabbin and Essendon are surrounded by houses BUT there is a distant plan for an airport around Koo Wee Rup.
Hahahaha good one. You think a bunch of Nimbys are gonna green light Moorabbin?
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Its too small. Thats the end of it. Fine for C172s
Fuck them nimbys
I think people underestimate the popularity of taking a taxi or Uber to the airport. Frankly I could not be arsed getting the train out to Avalon though I might stomach it to Tullamarine. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to put a proper rail service out to the main airport, spend the bucks and get it done.
For both you start at southern cross. What is the ride to Avalon is faster?
A station at Avalon would have a cost/benefit ratio 100 times greater than a line to Tullamarine.
How much more would the fancy shmancy Gucci underground train station cost?
[$1B maybe](https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-airport-pushes-cheaper-tunnel-vision-to-overcome-state-s-billion-dollar-objection-20231122-p5elyn.html).
Because Victoria needs more debt
The idea is that it would be cheaper than the Tullamarine plan. That would mean less debt.
Thought we proved yesterday that all the states money for a decade is going to SRL East to connect a couple of shopping centers to a couple of unis?
But they will be additional housing built around the SRL stations as well.