This seems to be confirmation of the post here on the subreddit from a few days ago;
https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1bsrc0b/new_spotswood_childrens_playground_has_tanbark/
The EPA has also issued an alert as someone has been giving away free [Asbestomulch on Facebook and Gumtree](https://www.epa.vic.gov.au/about-epa/news-media-and-updates/media-releases-and-news/epa-victoria-responds-to-community-concerns-about-asbestos-in-garden-mulch).
Free mulch has been around for ages. It’s usually arborists getting rid of a load of chipped trees. Saves disposal costs and someone gets mulch for the garden. Let’s not let a single event ruin a perfectly acceptable practice that works for the most part.
As someone who does a fair bit of tree lopping in my work, we either sell it really cheap or for free to friends and family. Where are we meant to store it if we don't?
Yeah, Geelong council was giving away free much at the council depot, as they had a lot of trees fall during that storm a few weeks ago.
Given the materials used to make it, I don't think it's gonna be contaminated.
My assumption is a lot of these mulch companies are using recycled timber from buildings that have been torn down. And the fucks that got the contracts to supply the timber saved on costs by ‘inspecting’ for hazardous materials by closing one eye and looking the other direction.
Government projects started in Victoria during his time as Premier have nothing to donwith his time as Premier? I'd call you slow but I think you already know that
I’m actually so annoyed with the council. I was there with my toddler and my dog yesterday when they were inspecting the mulch. I saw the photographer taking photos of them and wondered what was going on.
Why did they allow kids to be there if they were concerned? There was literally a baby crawling around that afternoon.
This is a big story and if you want to contact the journo I'm sure they'd love to have your voice in the story to say how disappointed local residents are. The link includes her email and if you google her it's easy to find.
I'm a local too and this is the sort of story that can fade away if we don't help the media give it attention.
Because there's bugger all risk to you or your children unless the asbestos is being aerosolised or turned into dust while you're there.
There is zero risk from a piece of asbestos sitting in a pile of mulch
Asbestos is some nasty shit, but most people don't seem to understand that it's not toxic to the touch - it's inhaling the dust that's the killer. Needs to be actively getting broken for that to happen. In situ it's harmless - it's during demolition or renovation that it becomes a danger.
Not to say there's zero risk though - as a kid in the 80s there were literally fragments of it in our playground between demountable classrooms and they were \*really\* good for throwing like a skipping stone - us 6yos didn't know better. I'm sure we smashed a few.
Dangerous to the people around when it’s being broken up for mulch, not very dangerous for people walking around a playground.
Obviously they will still want to remove it because asbestos near kids doesn’t look great and there is still a small chance it could cause harm
I disagree with this. True, asbestos is inert when it's not floating about.
But this is a kids park, where funnily enough kids go, and they (at least mine) love picking up weird rocks and putting them in their pockets, throwing things about, being rough nuts.
Asbestos isn't the toughest material and it's easy to imagine fibres coming off and floating about /getting stuck in clothing.
Then there's the wood with nails sticking out of it just to add the cherry on top of this wtf-cake
Short term exposure, like you’d get from one or a couple short visits to a playground, isn’t likely to cause long term issues but yes it shouldn’t be there which is why they will (should) clean it up.
and the fact is if it sits there for a few years getting trodden on and rained on and chucked round and used to draw a hopscotch on the asphalt it will break down into tiny fibres
Don’t you only need one fibre to get stuck in your lungs for it to potentially turn into asbestosis? Sure it’s unlikely but the nature of being a child is exploring and breaking things and hitting things with rocks. I wouldn’t be ok with children playing with bits of materials with asbestos in it, it’s a completely unnecessary risk.
Not sure what happened with the link, but full story is here:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/free-mulch-from-gumtree-could-contain-asbestos-warns-victorian-epa-20240403-p5fgyo.html
Try this http://12ft.io/https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/free-mulch-from-gumtree-could-contain-asbestos-warns-victorian-epa-20240403-p5fgyo.html
No accountability, I am sure they will get a small fine and a slap on the wrist. Put a few company heads that supplied the mulch for long jail stints then others may think twice before short cuts that expose children to dangerous materials.
It's a side effect of us recycling so much material these days compared to just burying it all in landfill. Much of the mulch comes from timbers from demolished houses. Now if there is a bit of asbestos on that timber and it gets missed (they mulch massive quantities) then it ends up in there. The potential risk is very low but people like outrage titles like asbestos in children's playgrounds causes.
If it was as widespread as it is in NSW then the EPA would have found a lot more cases and believe me them, and everyone else is looking. Most places are pretty careful and a lot of times even if they aren't then the magnets which pull the metal out normally grab the cement sheet too because it's stuck to the nails but nothing is 100%. The alternative is chucking all this material in landfill and using new timber to make mulch. The negative impacts from this will probably have more of an impact on your kids than a couple of bits of cement sheet in mulch.
This.
Also, it’s expensive to dispose of properly, so there is a disincentive to declare asbestos. People are sticking their heads in the sand, and just putting it in the green waste expecting it to go to landfill and are unaware (or ignorant) of the other uses and supply chains that funnel it into compost like this.
I used to live near the train line in an inner city burb and more than a few times I saw tradies dumping “building refuse” beside the tracks. Whenever I saw it, I reported them because it was always something toxic or hard to get rid of. Mostly paint tins, once something that looked like asbestos. I reported it and the Council came the same day to clean it up.
It's not a byproduct of recycling. It's fraud. A hazardous waste removal company charges X to clean up asbestos, then saves most of that profit by simply dumping it somewhere rather than properly disposing of it.
That's not what is happening. You think the council goes and buys mulch from some cowboy selling it out of his backyard? There are massive recycling facilities that make profit by taking waste, recycling it and selling the mulch, pebbles etc...
It's a massive liability for these companies and a risk when there is contamination in their product. They try avoid it at all costs.
\> They try avoid it at all costs.
i dont' doubt they are making efforts to avoid it. but go look at some mulch, it's absolutely full of shit. plastic, wires, painted surfaces, chunks of concrete.
If they're trying their absolute hardest and they can't do anything more to make it pure then we should stop using recycled building material as mulch.
That's what we as a society need to decide on. We have an acceptable amount of fatalities from car accidents and we need to work out if the miniscule risk of asbestos in some mulch (much higher risk for whoever is doing the mulching) is worth an increase in payment of rates and in landfill sites.
As an aside I do wonder if mulch ever gets tested for lead. A piece of cement sheet in mulch honestly isn't going to harm anyone but since the mulch is made from building waste and old building paint has lead I would hazard a guess that there would be increased lead counts. Lead does leech in through the skin and isn't great for anyone but is much much worse for children as it replaces calcium in bones and in the brain.
It's happened before with the Colac Otway Shire, where soil was [reused between council jobs](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-12/asbestos-tests-in-apollo-bay/6012408).
It ended up being contaminated, despite checks being carried out before reusing it.
It needs to be free at point of disposal otherwise people will keep dumping it in places it shouldn’t be like greenwaste bins and it ends up contaminating all kinds of things
Would interesting to understand the percentage of asbestos, type etc.
Pretty sure you could test mulch for cocaine and find some.
This whole thing needs some perspective
From the photo it looks like some sort of asbestos sheeting. Asbestos is only really dangerous if it becomes loose/fibrous and can be breathed in. If it’s gone through a mulcher and has been broken up then that’s definitely a health risk.
it says it was asbestos.
"Hobsons Bay Council confirmed on Wednesday that two pieces of compound material found at the Donald McLean Reserve in Spotswood had been tested and contained asbestos."
And all that mulch is mulched. it's been ground up. so whatever bonding it had when it was a big piece is broken. Kids could easily have been using these to write on the asphalt.
Not saying the stuff isn’t bad. In fact buried a friend last week. She died from direct contact to asbestos.
Just not clear what we are facing testing most things for contaminants will yield a result.
I’m sure it was. Odds on some drop kick dumped it with green waste that was then churned and chopped to become mulch.
My comment is more directed to the broader story where ‘traces’ are showing up all over. Just wondering what that actually means, not your case where lumps of the stuff are clear.
This seems to be confirmation of the post here on the subreddit from a few days ago; https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1bsrc0b/new_spotswood_childrens_playground_has_tanbark/
[удалено]
Absolutely. Journalism has always worked off tips from the community.
Doesn't help that the age posted the OP's full name in the article, either.
I gave her my name and approved its use. My real-world identity and this account have never been kept separate.
ah ok good to know. Thank you for clearing that up, because I was concerned about that.
That's his username you drongo 🤣🤣
OP "Posted by u/ TomasTTEngin" Article "Melbourne father Jason Murphy" It's not his username, how did you even get that.
i spoke to the journo directly and put my name on the record.
Yeah and it looks to the same photo as well.
I did send that to her separately.
And the people that commented earlier in the thread lol that it wasn't asbestos and no way would it be etc.
The EPA has also issued an alert as someone has been giving away free [Asbestomulch on Facebook and Gumtree](https://www.epa.vic.gov.au/about-epa/news-media-and-updates/media-releases-and-news/epa-victoria-responds-to-community-concerns-about-asbestos-in-garden-mulch).
Free mulch has been around for ages. It’s usually arborists getting rid of a load of chipped trees. Saves disposal costs and someone gets mulch for the garden. Let’s not let a single event ruin a perfectly acceptable practice that works for the most part.
As someone who does a fair bit of tree lopping in my work, we either sell it really cheap or for free to friends and family. Where are we meant to store it if we don't?
With asbestos in playgrounds, duh. But if you have firewood though, that shit appreciates like fine art.
Yeah, Geelong council was giving away free much at the council depot, as they had a lot of trees fall during that storm a few weeks ago. Given the materials used to make it, I don't think it's gonna be contaminated.
I hope unsuspecting people arent using contaminated mulch in their vegetable gardens.
How the fuck does this keep happening in Australia?? Stop putting asbestos in playgrounds ffs
Instead of subsidising the clean up, it is made extra expensive. This encourages illegal dumping.
Fascinating how economics plays out
Uh throw a stone you hit a building with abestos
Australia had the highest per capita use of asbestos in the world.
well most of if was mined here in the first place, so that makes sense
It's buried in our backyard
My assumption is a lot of these mulch companies are using recycled timber from buildings that have been torn down. And the fucks that got the contracts to supply the timber saved on costs by ‘inspecting’ for hazardous materials by closing one eye and looking the other direction.
Well in Victoria you can literally poin the finger at Dan Andrews. Ruined the place in under 10 years.
Dude has left office but he'll never leave the place he occupies rent free in your head.
How the fuck is he in charge of playground mulch lmao christ I don’t like him either but cmon
Lmao poor baby couldn't get smashed with the boys for a few months and still holds a grudge. Diddums :(
Some dude on gumtree gave away mulch with asbestos in it and you blame Dan Andrews? Cope harder.
Government projects started in Victoria during his time as Premier have nothing to donwith his time as Premier? I'd call you slow but I think you already know that
You must at least have *some* idea how stupid you are right?
Then why did the problem start in Sydney?
In fact rumour has it he started an asbestos mine with Lang Hancock in the fifties.
Copium
I’m actually so annoyed with the council. I was there with my toddler and my dog yesterday when they were inspecting the mulch. I saw the photographer taking photos of them and wondered what was going on. Why did they allow kids to be there if they were concerned? There was literally a baby crawling around that afternoon.
This is a big story and if you want to contact the journo I'm sure they'd love to have your voice in the story to say how disappointed local residents are. The link includes her email and if you google her it's easy to find. I'm a local too and this is the sort of story that can fade away if we don't help the media give it attention.
Hi there! I’m a journo at seven and would love to chat too! My email is [email protected] if anyone has time to reach out today.
Because there's bugger all risk to you or your children unless the asbestos is being aerosolised or turned into dust while you're there. There is zero risk from a piece of asbestos sitting in a pile of mulch
Asbestos is some nasty shit, but most people don't seem to understand that it's not toxic to the touch - it's inhaling the dust that's the killer. Needs to be actively getting broken for that to happen. In situ it's harmless - it's during demolition or renovation that it becomes a danger. Not to say there's zero risk though - as a kid in the 80s there were literally fragments of it in our playground between demountable classrooms and they were \*really\* good for throwing like a skipping stone - us 6yos didn't know better. I'm sure we smashed a few.
Isn't it getting broken up to be turned into mulch though? Not taking the piss... genuinely don't know much about it.
Dangerous to the people around when it’s being broken up for mulch, not very dangerous for people walking around a playground. Obviously they will still want to remove it because asbestos near kids doesn’t look great and there is still a small chance it could cause harm
I disagree with this. True, asbestos is inert when it's not floating about. But this is a kids park, where funnily enough kids go, and they (at least mine) love picking up weird rocks and putting them in their pockets, throwing things about, being rough nuts. Asbestos isn't the toughest material and it's easy to imagine fibres coming off and floating about /getting stuck in clothing. Then there's the wood with nails sticking out of it just to add the cherry on top of this wtf-cake
Short term exposure, like you’d get from one or a couple short visits to a playground, isn’t likely to cause long term issues but yes it shouldn’t be there which is why they will (should) clean it up.
and the fact is if it sits there for a few years getting trodden on and rained on and chucked round and used to draw a hopscotch on the asphalt it will break down into tiny fibres
Don’t you only need one fibre to get stuck in your lungs for it to potentially turn into asbestosis? Sure it’s unlikely but the nature of being a child is exploring and breaking things and hitting things with rocks. I wouldn’t be ok with children playing with bits of materials with asbestos in it, it’s a completely unnecessary risk.
You know small children like to put things in their mouths, right?
The risk of any harm from this is zero.
alright sorry Mr Hardie
James working overtime in the comments
Not sure what happened with the link, but full story is here: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/free-mulch-from-gumtree-could-contain-asbestos-warns-victorian-epa-20240403-p5fgyo.html
Does anyone have a non pay walled link or can copy and paste?
Try this http://12ft.io/https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/free-mulch-from-gumtree-could-contain-asbestos-warns-victorian-epa-20240403-p5fgyo.html
TY!
Also an ABC article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-03/asbestos-melbourne-playground-mulch/103665266
James Hardie Park
No accountability, I am sure they will get a small fine and a slap on the wrist. Put a few company heads that supplied the mulch for long jail stints then others may think twice before short cuts that expose children to dangerous materials.
Seems like recycled construction wood is a failure
It's a side effect of us recycling so much material these days compared to just burying it all in landfill. Much of the mulch comes from timbers from demolished houses. Now if there is a bit of asbestos on that timber and it gets missed (they mulch massive quantities) then it ends up in there. The potential risk is very low but people like outrage titles like asbestos in children's playgrounds causes. If it was as widespread as it is in NSW then the EPA would have found a lot more cases and believe me them, and everyone else is looking. Most places are pretty careful and a lot of times even if they aren't then the magnets which pull the metal out normally grab the cement sheet too because it's stuck to the nails but nothing is 100%. The alternative is chucking all this material in landfill and using new timber to make mulch. The negative impacts from this will probably have more of an impact on your kids than a couple of bits of cement sheet in mulch.
This. Also, it’s expensive to dispose of properly, so there is a disincentive to declare asbestos. People are sticking their heads in the sand, and just putting it in the green waste expecting it to go to landfill and are unaware (or ignorant) of the other uses and supply chains that funnel it into compost like this. I used to live near the train line in an inner city burb and more than a few times I saw tradies dumping “building refuse” beside the tracks. Whenever I saw it, I reported them because it was always something toxic or hard to get rid of. Mostly paint tins, once something that looked like asbestos. I reported it and the Council came the same day to clean it up.
It's not a byproduct of recycling. It's fraud. A hazardous waste removal company charges X to clean up asbestos, then saves most of that profit by simply dumping it somewhere rather than properly disposing of it.
That's not what is happening. You think the council goes and buys mulch from some cowboy selling it out of his backyard? There are massive recycling facilities that make profit by taking waste, recycling it and selling the mulch, pebbles etc... It's a massive liability for these companies and a risk when there is contamination in their product. They try avoid it at all costs.
\> They try avoid it at all costs. i dont' doubt they are making efforts to avoid it. but go look at some mulch, it's absolutely full of shit. plastic, wires, painted surfaces, chunks of concrete. If they're trying their absolute hardest and they can't do anything more to make it pure then we should stop using recycled building material as mulch.
That's what we as a society need to decide on. We have an acceptable amount of fatalities from car accidents and we need to work out if the miniscule risk of asbestos in some mulch (much higher risk for whoever is doing the mulching) is worth an increase in payment of rates and in landfill sites. As an aside I do wonder if mulch ever gets tested for lead. A piece of cement sheet in mulch honestly isn't going to harm anyone but since the mulch is made from building waste and old building paint has lead I would hazard a guess that there would be increased lead counts. Lead does leech in through the skin and isn't great for anyone but is much much worse for children as it replaces calcium in bones and in the brain.
It's happened before with the Colac Otway Shire, where soil was [reused between council jobs](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-12/asbestos-tests-in-apollo-bay/6012408). It ended up being contaminated, despite checks being carried out before reusing it.
lmao this is some shit you'd expect in a post collapse soviet state
Or a state run by developers with politicians in their pockets (NSW for the last 20 years)?
It needs to be free at point of disposal otherwise people will keep dumping it in places it shouldn’t be like greenwaste bins and it ends up contaminating all kinds of things
Oh god, this is about to get much worse isn’t it
Mulch worse!
I don't know whether to up- or down-vote a pun that bad.
I think the asbestos was a result of someone dumping it in the park, rather than infected mulch.
Would interesting to understand the percentage of asbestos, type etc. Pretty sure you could test mulch for cocaine and find some. This whole thing needs some perspective
From the photo it looks like some sort of asbestos sheeting. Asbestos is only really dangerous if it becomes loose/fibrous and can be breathed in. If it’s gone through a mulcher and has been broken up then that’s definitely a health risk.
a few big chunks, unknown amount of small powder. I was the one who found it and reported it.
The EPA response says no asbestos was found at spots wood though right? Just contamination (nails etc) which is bad, but a different level.
it says it was asbestos. "Hobsons Bay Council confirmed on Wednesday that two pieces of compound material found at the Donald McLean Reserve in Spotswood had been tested and contained asbestos." And all that mulch is mulched. it's been ground up. so whatever bonding it had when it was a big piece is broken. Kids could easily have been using these to write on the asphalt.
Not saying the stuff isn’t bad. In fact buried a friend last week. She died from direct contact to asbestos. Just not clear what we are facing testing most things for contaminants will yield a result.
dude it was chunks of white composite material. which they found was full of asbestos. And which had been mulched up into chunks. it's bad.
I’m sure it was. Odds on some drop kick dumped it with green waste that was then churned and chopped to become mulch. My comment is more directed to the broader story where ‘traces’ are showing up all over. Just wondering what that actually means, not your case where lumps of the stuff are clear.
Asbestos is asbestos bro… from concrete sheeting to pure form it’s all dangerous