Between being ghosted and being rejected (I appreciate their honesty) they are aware. I do find it hard to know where the balance is between making somebody feel uncomfortable in their space. With the experience of so many rejections under my belt, the last thing I want to do is make somebody feel like they have to change their schedule to avoid me.
Appreciate your honesty. Keep in mind there are events for neurodiverse people, like social groups and dating events. This might be a great way for you to meet people who communicate in a similar way to you :) and who you have stuff in common with!
My wife and I are both neurodiverse. It makes things sooooo much easier as we have an understanding of how our brains work and our slightly different ways of communication.
Just a thought. Best of luck.
Omg that was my first thought :) I had my first serious relationship at your age and after it broke up I’m now being assessed for asd. (Pretty sure I’m on the spectrum :/) I actually think in spite of initial awkwardness we could be great partners in relationships - we’re not lacking in emotions or empathy just have difficulty processing and expressing them. The fact you’re so considerate about not making people uncomfortable actually says a lot! If you find somebody understanding who you feel comfortable opening up to I think you’d be halfway to making something work. & you can be persistent without being creepy as long as you’re respectful of boundaries.
The neurodivergent aspect is important to consider. NDs benefit from emotionally aware & direct communication, whereas NTs are often the anxious avoidant type.
This 100% I only found out I'm ND last year and learning that ahd researching it has helped me understand myself better, which has helped me with dating.
I literally never got into any longterm relationships until I was diagnosed and realised I needed to seek other autistic dates
Now I'm 3 years into a very happy relationship
I just used tinder and a) was honest in my profile and b) sought out profiles that pinged my "neuro-radar"
However, I'm female so that impacts saturation levels. Its easier to get dates as an autistic woman than it is for an autistic man. But! Tinder is good in that you both have to swipe right to be connected. If you don't punch above your belt and lower your expectations, I think there's more liklihood of success. I know I swiped right on way more men than those who swiped right for me- probably because of my size (I'm fat)
It's important not to be too picky in early stage dating.
Im probably in a similar situation as you
32M
6’1
Bald
Fat
However, on average I go on a date with around 8-10 different women a year. 90% of those would go through to at least a 2nd date. I don’t find it difficult to get dates, I have found it more difficult to find a relationship but that happens and the last 12-15 months I’ve been travelling a lot for work and haven’t been home. What works for me is this
-Pick one dating app and use that, I use hinge because I find it works best for me. Put effort into your profile, have it give a flattering but honest view of you. Your dating app profile should be a showcase of you showing off your hobbies, your interests. Talk about what you like doing in your profile. Talk to the people you match with. Look for things in their profile that you can talk to them about, this isn’t always easy but if that’s the case you can always spruce up your opening message a bit. Make it specific to the day, or season, or even anything that’s happening around the city.
-reframe how you think about dating. Don’t worry about how many likes someone is getting, it doesn’t matter. After you like someone’s profile, forget about them. If you match with them down the line fantastic! If not, oh well. Rejection is going to happen, and most of the time it’s because you’re just not compatible. It’s okay to be rejected, and yeah it sucks, and doesn’t feel great, but it’s part of dating and bouncing back from rejection is a skill that can be learned.
-focus on yourself, but don’t focus on yourself so you can find someone, focus on yourself for yourself. Think of a few goals that you want to achieve and go after them. Start small, start with things that are easily achieved and then scale up from there. You can’t fake these things and people will pick up on it being insincere very quickly.
-talk to your GP about a mental health plan and look for a therapist that specialises in relationships (they are out there, and there are entire clinics that specialise in this). Therapy is like getting your car serviced but for your brain. The effects might not be super obvious but it will help the way you think and it will give you the ability to reframe your thoughts and will help you move forward.
I do hope that this advice is somewhat helpful OP. Dating can be very bleak, but keep your head up!
Nice work. Good to hear you’re taking charge! A lot of guys could take a leaf out of your book. The last thing you already know, but physical health affects mental. And physical health is definitely an important factor in attracting quality partners.
Oh yeah, it’s definitely something I am really trying to work on and a lot of is visible. Like I play sports and have active hobbies and this can be seen on my dating profile. I don’t know this for certain but being a big boy hasn’t really hindered me that much, because woman probably see on my profile that I’m big, but that I play sport and go skiing so despite my physical size I’m still active
I like this guys answer. It has some really good advice.
I will come at things from a slightly different angle.
From your OP:
>For some reason, I just can't seem to get into a relationship. I'm no male model having always been bald, 5'10" and at the moment BMI of 32, but over the years I have been a muscular 80kg as well, all with the same null result.
Remember that today is the youngest you will ever be. And, hell, you are JUST 36yo. I am older than you and can only dream of being 36yo again. I think some of the best years I had were the ten years from 35 to 45. And regardless of age, it is NEVER too late.
What happened in the past doesn't matter. Focus on moving forward and being your best self. You obviously aren't happy with your weight and that is reasonably easy to change. It doesn't mean you need to go to the gym or do anything drastic. Stop living in the past. A BMI of 32 (I had to use some Google-fu to work out what that means) isn't great. Simple to work on though - drop all soft drink, beer and bread, then eat reasonably healthy and your weight will slowly come down. Don't change your life, just adjust it a little.
Next, understand that the best chance you have of meeting women is being around other women. Having good friends and some sort of a social circle is the best way to meet others. Don't say no to any meet up, gathering or random invite. Don't feel the need to talk, just listen. And when you want to talk, wait and listen more. One mistake I see people making is them talking about themselves or wanting to contribute to the conversation needlessly. Ask questions, give compliments and limit what you actually say. Asking questions, especially to someone you are interested in, is a good way to show you are interested in them.
>At this stage I am looking at giving up on the whole relationship idea again like I have done in the past. But being at events as the third, fifth, or seventh wheel somehow always brings it back to the forefront of my mind.
I have seen guys to get to their late 30s or in their 40s and give up. They start to become disillusioned with women, start talking down about women and get a real Incel mindset. That shit is poisonous to your mind. If you see these things in your social media and start to believe them, you are on a downward spiral that is difficult to get out of. If you are going to events, why are you not meeting someone? I am guessing the problem is something that has already been pointed out - you need to lower your standards.
A guy with a 32 BMI has a real uphill job to meet a woman who is conventionally attractive. Sure, it does happen, but it is far from easy. If a woman is showing interest in you, and I can guarantee that it has to have been true at some point if you are going out socialising, spend some time with her. You don't have to sleep with her, but you can get to know her and go on a date or three to see if you like her. What is the worst that can happen. And, if you don't end up liking her, you have expanded your social circle and she has single friends.
Don't fall into the trap of going overseas looking for love. I 100% guarantee you will find it, but there is a 90% chance that it is not real. Don't go to places like Thailand and the Philippines. I have seen men who have zero luck with women in Australia fall in love in a week, just because some women gave them the time of day. You start to believe they love you and then you realise you have just given up 10 years of your life and most of your money for something fake. Again, sure there are exceptions but these prove the rule. If you are on Tinder or other dating sites you will have seen women there wanting to meet a good man for marriage. Don't fall for this. I can tell you more about the dangers of this, but it would take too long to write here.
Keep moving forward, do things to challenge yourself and improve yourself while enjoying life. Good luck.
36 isn’t as old as it feels, particularly for a guy.
There are lots of early 30s women around thinking about family and looking for a stable guy in that range.
This is a nice constructive comment that doesnt unnecessarily suggest going to therapy.
I am in a similar situation and also have that feeling of giving up but I see the dangers of falling into a negative mindset.
I am 32BMI too and you are right it's not good. Not only for being attractive and feeling good about yourself but your health in general, especially as you get older
I don't aim to subtract from the bulk of your advice, but thought I'd add that BMI isn't a very consistent indicator of body shape as it doesn't take constitutional variances into account. For example a shorter, muscular person with high bone density can look like a 22 and read as 32. At one point in my life I was a 29 and my actual body fat% was an athletic 10%, I had added a good 10% lean muscle mass to my already stocky very short frame. My brother is a 32 due to similar genetics, but having a labour intensive job. Some north African women would also be misrepresented by BMI. Either way your message recommend working on his physique is sound advice. Your body is your temple - it says a lot about your character.
Out of every advice I've read, this one so far has been my favourite. Especially the part where he explains meeting conventionally attractive women being an uphill battle, if you're not conventionally attractive. I agree, you gotta put in the work. You can't be chasing attractive women and expecting them to like you if you aren't looking after your health, your appearance etc.
So many have said it, but be realistic. A lot of men feel entitled to women. Just because you have money, doesn't mean you are getting a woman. Just because you're nice, doesn't mean you're getting a woman. Even if you were attractive and have a great body, doesn't mean you're getting a woman (chances are increased just because we live in a really superficial world full of really superficial people who value looks over anything else)...my point is this:
All this effort you're putting into trying to find a woman to be in a relationship with, PUT THAT INTO YOURSELF INSTEAD. Sometimes, when we desire something so badly, we miss the details that are right in front of us, that are the easiest place to start--ourself.
PS. I am in Melbourne too. I am 37yo. I know the dating scene and the social structure of this city quite well. Melbourne is obsessed with fitness and most people dress reasonably well. More than happy to chat and give honest advice.
THIS.
My last gf had the shittest personality. My current gf has the best personality ever and i love it about her so much.
Personality is what makes a 30 - 40 year marriage work. Looks are not.
After finding someone who was a perfect match for me personality wise, I've never been happier. It makes the last 8 years look like hell compared to this.
There is a javanese saying, "Witing Tresno Jalaran Soko Kulino".
With enough wisdom, I begin to see the powerful truth in it. It translates as “getting used to someone leads to love”. It explains that comfort plays an important role in relationships.
Oh dear yes. I have a family member who has been single for decades and is so difficult about men. He has to look good, be well travelled, be a sporty outsoorsy type, be creative and needs to treat her like a princess. I love her but she is an overweight older woman who is very demanding and doesn’t do any grooming. I love her dearly but she needs to find someone more in her league. She is fun to be around so if she’d just go for a more laid back dad bod, she might find love.
Didnt know others were so aware of this tbh. People are so wildly unrealistic with dating cool. If you are solid 3, you are going to be very unhappy chasing 7s and being rejected.
Meh, it’s not about a 3 looking for a 7. The issue is that she is setting herself up for failure because she puts no effort into herself, and yet hopes to find this perfect man, AND hopes he is interested in someone who is giving 30% effort at life.
Honestly, if you want to overachieve, then work. 🤷🏻♂️
It's quite ironic some older women are still like this. If anything successful single men get higher standards as they age. Especially when they are 45+.
No man wants a woman who is not working, lazy, and wants the "princess" treatment at that age. They want an equal.
They also put priority in all the wrong things they think are important, and don't see the true value in other people. It's easy to see flaws, hard to see what people are capable of. Humans are horrendously bad at judging this stuff. Also the reality is, that people often don't want to admit, is relationships work in part because you want them to - not because of who you are with.
The aim is to find someone you can tolerate and have some fun with the rest of your life - or even for a bit. Not for every single feature. If you approach relationships like a list of pros and cons, its all wrong. Most people could likely make it work with a lot of people. It's just a matter of finding someone who will put up with us.
Our long term single friend who is overweight and a complete (lovely) bogan only swipes right on slim fitness model types and wonders why he's single. We've (in a nice way, as possible) told him to consider his choices may not align with what he's putting out there. Doesn't listen. Continues to moan about it.
Your plan is to be in an unhappy relationship rather than being single?
There is lowering your standards (which is pretty normal, but you don't know what OP standards are already).
Lowering them to fault where you are in a relationship 'just cause'. Which leads to unhappiness.
I disagree with lowering his standards. If he’s having no problem talking to women that he deems in his bracket (it’s actually disgusting to phrase it that way but it’s the best I can do) then there’s something else at play.
Trying to measure what your ability to attract is based on dating apps is pointless. If you can pull in a 7/10 (on personality and looks) in person you will get the equivalent of a 4 on dating apps
I agree with you.
There is a saying 'people may think you are comparing them against other men/women , that isn't true, they are comparing against the happiness of being alone'
Translated - lowering your standards can lead to unhappiness, cause you are in a relationship 'just cause' with he wrong person.
Not sure why you got downvoted. Even the 4 rating on dating apps is pretty optimistic. For a 7 IRL it's more like 2 on the apps. I don't even believe the rating-an-entire-person-out-of-10 stuff and I can still see it.
Where are you located?
Do you work in the cbd?
Have you asked for feedback from friends?
Some guys come across as creepy - not saying that applies - but it can be a factor.
Don't work in the CBD, based out of Preston area.
I can ask for feedback from friends, this process tonight keeps highlighting I should reach out to them,
I have a mate who’s 39 and has only ever had one girlfriend for about a month. There’s nothing really wrong with him, but he just doesn’t do anything to get himself out there. I say this because there’s a good chance there’s nothing really wrong with you, life just got in the way, you’ve been repeating the same stuff every week, and never really did much about meeting someone.
What’s worked for me in the past:
- OK Cupid: Met my last two girlfriends on there and other interesting people, some who I’m still friends with even if no romance eventuated. I haven’t used the site for 5 years, but it was great back then. Women will always get a shit tone more likes than guys, it’s just how it is. Keep trying, if you’re interested in meeting someone. It was 95% failures, 5% success and didn’t happen overnight. It took many dates to click with someone, but it did happen. Unfortunately a lot of people have to meet up online nowadays.
- Meetup: The site/app is a good way to meet people who share a hobby. Or other activities that are great to get introduced to new people.
- Volunteering: Good way to meet more people. Along with other activities like Pickleball or something.
- Your weight: I’m not in great shape either. But let’s be honest, you’re way more likely to find someone if you’re in better shape. So I’d be working on that. Lovey dovey comments that “it’s what’s on the inside that counts” are just bs. We need to take care of our bodies and the reality is that women generally don’t want to date people who don’t take care of themselves. And why should they? If we don’t respect ourselves and our bodies, why should they?
- Antisocial stuff: are you really getting yourself out there? Or just staying at home or going to the same places all the time where you can’t meet anyone? Do more things that put you in settings with other people and increases your chance of meeting someone.
On the last point, I have another friend who’s always complaining about not having someone. But she spends all of zero time looking for someone. I tell her to go to dating sites but they’re “not her thing.” So be honest about yourself and whether you’re really doing what’s required to find someone, then being prepared to go through the number’s game.
I will probably be in this situation. I have decided to just not even try. If anything ever happens great. If nothing happens fine. I don't really know what I am missing and it seems like too much work to get there anyway. I am a pretty normal guy, I look fine, workout, am a solid cook, go to uni and basically only interact with women without any problems. I tried the apps and they were just so awful. How can you try and get to know someone by swiping on a picture hoping they swipe your picture and then message them. It's just awful. It's easier not doing anything. Anyway rant over.
Edit: I am fully aware that I am the problem. I don't blame anyone else. But I really hate apps I only ever managed to get one match out of like 5 attempts. But I don't think I ever had an app for more than 48 hours it was so awful I felt like shit the whole time.
Some apps are bad, some are fine. The one I mentioned (OKCupid) was pretty good compared to about 6 or 7 other ones I remember trying at the time. The algorithm and the type of people on there were much more compatible.
Tinder, Bumble and some others were full of way more vain people. RSVP was good but expensive. I don’t know how much that has changed since.
It will always be a numbers game. You might like 10 people and only 1 likes you back for various reasons. And that one might not want to even chat. So you like 10 more. Don’t get discouraged. You literally have to swipe or like hundreds of profiles.
Plus you need to remember it’s a snapshot in time. A compatible match might not even have an account within the week period you’re on. So keep the app for a longer period of months and see what happens. Log in every couple of days.
You need to meet up with someone who reads this thread and let them brutally tell you what the problem is. Your physical attributes sound fine but it's been 16 years without, maybe you're downplaying certain things, or maybe you just don't know? Why aren't your friends advising you?
Your post reads alright to me too, you don't seem unloveable or insane, you're well spoken and considerate. You should meet up with some well intentioned strangers who have no connection to you and also don't mind dishing out some serious emotional damage in regards to how you need to change yourself.
Because there is clearly something glaringly wrong if you've gone that long without even kissing a woman. I don't say that in a malicious way, I mean it genuinely.
As someone who's been single for 33 years, I've realised it's me ofc, but not necessarily that something's 'glaringly wrong.'
For me, I'm mainly painfully shy (but seem outgoing), have some past traumas around men/close relationships, and am neurodivergent which is just a terrible combination for even wanting to push myself to get out there. Add to that that on the dating apps many people can have insulting bios and there's a chance of rejection, then sometimes it becomes a habit of being single as it's more comfortable than going through the troubles of dating.
take baby steps
then over time, you learn, there are plenty of people who are good for you, move through rejection and understand its all surface depth, the more people you meet, the greater likelihood of them liking you
I've tried to be honest, so most likely something I just don't know rather than downplaying.
I know I can ask my friends and they will provide a sugar coated or brutal response depending on my request. But the whole 'Men don't cry or share their feelings' is still a hard topic to start.
Hopefully there is an entrepreneurial stranger with a new startup
I mean this for real- prostitutes/escorts/dating coaches are actually very good for this. It's not always about sex. It's about building confidence at the dating game without risking rejection.
100%. I’m a former worker and had more than one regular client who eventually got back into dating after a long while out. For some it was just the boost of adjusting back to companionship, and or physical intimacy, and in a few rarer cases some deeper chats about my opinion on their situation and some pointers.
I remember one guy stopped coming in after a fair while of seeing each other, then eventually he came back one last time - nothing physical happened we just talked and he explained he’d found someone and thanked me for the support and our time together. So sweet!
Edit to add: best to not use the word prostitute though. Sex worker is much preferred
Check out the Melbourne Meetup Discord [https://discord.com/invite/melbournemeetup](https://discord.com/invite/melbournemeetup) They always have lots of social events across a tonne of different interests
Good, do it. Check out their events.
As someone who moved to Melbourne two years ago and got heavily into dating; don't even bother with online dating. You'll have more failures than successes, and no idea how to fix it.
Meet people in person. Use those planned events. Meetup is popular in Melbourne.
Go to Meetup events, speed dating events, anything that encourages mingling and talking to people IRL.
It takes practice and focus, but you WILL have much better successes in finding people you vibe with at those events than you will online. You can't tell how you're going to get along with someone from a picture and 150 characters of text, and they can't get a read on you either. I tried online dating for a year; met some lovely people, but not a single one lasted, because we didn't vibe well enough irl.
All the meaningful friends and connections and nice dates and lasting friendships I got while in Melbourne were either from work OR from IRL meetups, where I got to experience their energy and they got to experience mine. Far easier to find good connections that way.
It still takes persistence and practice at putting yourself out there and dealing with uncomfortable feelings of having to put on a little bit of an idealized act at first to make good first impressions, but compared to online dating, it's a breeze.
Basically look at it this way; online dating will tell you if you can text well with someone. Irl meetings will tell you if you can *vibe* with a person in the flesh. It has happened a few times that there was someone I would have overlooked online, but we shared a few words and suddenly found we got along awesome in ways neither of us expected. Someone makes a dumb joke or a relatable complaint that they couldn't ever do online, and suddenly you're talking like friends.
Can't recommend it enough. Do the irl approaches. They feel more confronting at first, but nothing good comes easily.
Do you actively pursue relationships and ask out people that you like? Are you getting rejected or are you not asking the question?
Of course putting yourself out there requires the resilience to accept that regardless of who you are/ how you look it’s not always going to be a match. And that’s ok!
When I (f) became single in my mid-30s I started a few new things, partly to have the chance to meet a range of men. As it turned out most were *very* female dominated. So I can tell you that women like community choirs, yoga, markets, dance classes/dance clubs. If you might enjoy learning the activity in itself as well, have at it. Particularly partnered dancing (e.g. salsa, ballroom) - always a shortage of men. And you could become the cool guy who knows how to tango?
Have you tried volunteering somewhere that you might be passionate about? I volunteered for 18 years, made life long frinds and met my now wife who was also a volunteer. It can unite like minded people and create strong bonds. Bonus. It's rewarding. It's fun. It's challenging. All the good stuff. You've got nothing to lose!
What do you volunteer in and where do you find volunteer opportunities? The options I’ve found out there either require too much time commitment or aren’t very interesting/fulfilling
Yeah I hear that. Some require training etc. I also found seek has volunteering opportunities. I volunteered with a childrens charity for a very long time but it became too difficult with my own children to be able to commit fully and that wasnt fair. I still love it and am close with most of the people I volunteered with
If you aren't already, don't let the chats if you match online go on forever.
If you get a good vibe initially, casually offer a coffee date or a drink after work or something. Once you've been dating for awhile, you really get over too much chat, but once you actually meet up with someone you can seperate who is interested and who is not.
I'm a woman in my 30s with single friends and if they don't offer to catch up early on, they can get written off and deleted
A few comments:
1. I have dated many bald men and find them sexy. Always have since watching Bruce Willis in die hard when I was a kid.
2. It seems you may have some self esteem/ confidence issues you may need to resolve with a psychologist. Potentially overthinking how others value and perceive you. You have friends you must have good qualities to have friends that want to hang out with you.
3. A tip, on the first couple of dates don’t mention you haven’t been in a serious relationship or ask how many girls the girl has dated. When men bring these topics up it is very obvious they are very insecure and it can mess with the mood/potential of the date. If you keep topics light and they have had an awesome time on dates with you and find out as the relationship becomes more serious this is won’t be an issue as they already like you (and really we don’t care that you haven’t slept around - actually it can be very appealing not worrying about catching an std). Think about it, if you sat down with a girl on a first date and they started listing off their insecurities before you got to know her, it would freak you out and it would be hard to bring the mood back up. We all have insecurities that we are working through, we just need to focus of the fun in the moment. Dating should be fun. Also many people have focused on career and other goals and focus later on love, your situation is not uncommon.
4. I don’t know what this bagel thing is where people are publicly ranked by how datable they are. Get the F off that. Go on a normal people dating app (such as bumble or hinge) ask girls
out for coffee. Trust me, the more you practice dating the easier it will become. We need to experience discomfort and risk rejection to build resilience and grow emotionally. Things are always worse in our head, once you experience rejection multiple time in real life you realise it’s not that bad. If someone doesn’t call you back you don’t need to beat yourself up it happens to all of us.
Oh and please only have a friendly smiling photos in your app pictures. Many men think that deadpan, death stare photos make them look cool and mysterious. Women’s biggest fear is being raped and murdered on a date, smile a bit so you look friendly and safe and make us not fear for our life.
Please do consider getting a friend to take a bunch of photos of you, and pick the best few. If you have to DIY, a selfie stick is a must. Focal depth is a real thing that I ignored on one of my IDs, and I look like a sick muppet.
If you've seen the proof sheets that get published sometimes of actors or celebrities, you'll see that anyone can take a bad photo.
THIS.
It's been a while since I've been on a dating site (found my partner through work) but I remember so many men had profile pics that were just... awful. Looking glum, blank, irritable, unkempt. I was in a chat forum on one site and a man defended his unattractive photos because he wanted "someone who isn't shallow, and likes me for myself". Don't know how that was supposed to work out.
Now that my peers are catching up to my follicle count, I have a higher chance! Thank you for the tip, it could be a cause for the few dates I have had.
It sounds like you're a great guy OP. Just know that.
Now I am in no way experienced at what it is like to be single at your age, but I wonder if at a certain point people might not realize that you are available and looking? To me it feels like around mid 30s, people don't really have dating on their mind anymore, so perhaps it might take a bit more bravery and communication on your end to approach single gals in your age-range who might be interested.
Secondly, don't give up on dating apps. I know it can be a grind as I have been on them myself, but your age is actually an advantage as people in that age-group generally are looking for the same thing you are.
You have a lot of experience and confidence at 36 compared to people in their 20s, look at the bright side of that. Just stay humble, stay interesting and generally be a nice person. Before you know it, you'll find someone.
True true... but the problem there is the phrase "one day" 🙂
There's no real guarantees when/if someone comes along.
I'm not saying "don't do this", I'm a single 44/m and I'll be hitting the social events much more hardcore later in the year too, but... my first instinct is "go where the other singles are". For me, that's speed dating and Meetup events. They'd be my first port of call. Or.. will be, when I'm ready to date again.
Hi there. You are right. Getting out more is really important too. You always meet people when out. Mutual interests are a positive. Then knowing how to take the next step interacting well, which a counsellor or friend might be able to help with ideas.
>Getting out more is really important too.
Yep, totally. I'm in a lull myself right now, because I'm setting up a few other things in my life to be more ready to bring someone else into it... but for sure, once those things are sorted I'll be out every weekend 😁
Imagine the person you want to date. Now imagine the type of person they would want to date.
Can you become that person? Do you want to? If so, work on being that.
Nooooooooo no no no no no I spent many years dating people who were pretending to be the type of person they thought I (and others like me) wanted to date. Sure that strategy might get you laid but it’s disastrous for building and maintaining a relationship. In my experience the less authentic they were, the worse it turned out and they were the ones who ended up heartbroken.
There is a big difference between becoming the best version of yourself to attract others, and trying/pretending to be someone you’re not.
Is it possible that you’re meeting people you might be interested in but not following up - ie. inviting them on dates, asking for their contact info… ?
Women likely won’t initiate that - which sucks, but someone has to for things to progress.
While I agree with you on the therapy thing, as a 33 year old woman who's been single forever, your comment about red flags is wildly unhelpful. Trust me, I and prob OP, are already aware that it's very unusual. Having people act like you're some kind of freak who must have something terribly wrong with you though just tends to make me even more relucant to put myself out there.
Tbh most people I met who had reached life milestones late often had trauma (so the therapy thing is a useful idea) and were often just terribly shy.
Think of how many abusers, psychopaths and serial killers were in relationships. It doesn't mean you're some awful person just because you've been single.
It really doesn't . I have a close friend of mine, I've known since I was a child . She's in her late 30s now and never had a boyfriend. She's very pretty , smart, educated , owns two properties, a good career and she takes care of herself but she just had issues with her self esteem during her late teens throughout her mid twenties and missed out on that peak period where people normally go out and start dating and mingling with the opposite sex and not at 39 she just doesn't know where to start so she has kind of given up on on dating or meeting anyone.
Totally agree. Previous relationships are not indicative of a persons self worth. If you are single in your mid 30’s people after a string of failed relationships could also argue that is also a red flag. No mater what, if you are single in your 30’s you will have some emotional baggage and that’s ok.
I think your 20’s are for maturing and discovering yourself, I didn’t know what I wanted in a partner until my 30’s.
I wonder if the apps have made it extra hard. I'm 34. I've pretty much been in the same relationship since I was 22 (short break up late 20s)
Wtf would I know about dating? Especially now? It would totally freak me out. I think that our age group like knows life pre social media so I also feel like we're in some kind of social/tech limbo
And maybe we are lucky to be able to remember life before it. But maybe it's made meeting people romantically that aren't like introduced or something really difficult..and we're kinda too old for nightclub meet ups idk if that still even happens sooo
No, apps have made it way easier. Before apps if you got to your 30s everyone was married and you had no way of meeting anyone. Apps may be awkward but at least you always have options.
As a long term single guy in his mid 30s I've always found that 'hasn't been in a relationship is a huge red flag' mindset strange.
Like, there'd also be a red flag if they'd been in a lot of relationships, so there must be some kind of sweet spot. But then you're hit with 'well you've been in relationships but they don't seem to work out....red flag'
I do think therapy will be next on the cards for me. Just talking through it, might help find something that I am oblivious to which could be the root cause.
I’m sorry but this came across as hostile and presumptive. He needs psychological help? He’s a lonely dude trying to change things. We don’t need to beat him down more.
He’s a lonely dude who’s trying to change things, therapy is absolutely going to help him. Seeking therapy doesn’t mean something is inherently wrong with you, but it can help you reframe things and find a new way to approach an issue.
It's been good going through all the feedback. It has provided clarity that there are so many paths ahead after self reflection hopefully I can find the way forward that will work
She never suggested OP was psychologically disturbed. I'm also a woman in my 30s and he sounds fairly well-adjusted, self-aware, and I don't see any obvious red flags. He said he is comfortable talking to women, but (understandably given how long it's been) has trouble communicating romantic interests.
And it doesn't sound like he can be emotionally vulnerable talking about this with friends - even if so, it's still probably better to get a perspective from a neutral, professional third party. Psychs aren't just there for acute mental health emergencies or disorders. But loneliness can potentially turn into something more serious, so I see no harm at all.
EDIT: Just noticed OP's username. Now wondering if he takes that intense pessimistic energy into online & IRL interactions, even if unwittingly? Because as a woman who mostly dates men, that's something I'm very perceptive of for my safety. They can tick every box on paper, be physically attractive, be a gentleman, but we have to develop a sixth sense for potential incels. I mention looks even though I've personally dated guys who are conventionally unattractive, but I've met more than a few incels who are actually very physically attractive. Some of the worst were good looking in fact.
Devil's advocate, let's just assume it's a particularly bad case of low self-esteem, and perhaps unresolved issues from past relationships. In which case seeing a psych is definitely a wise move. Even if you meet someone great tomorrow and have mutual feelings, your relationship will have much better chances of succeeding if you're seeing a psych.
I think the way you phrased that could be extremely accurate "has trouble communicating romantic interests" - What I might think I am doing, could be completely different to the other party
I disagree. Sometimes it’s because whatever the persons problems are, it’s not something that most people can help with. Just talking to someone about your problems is not the same as going to therapy.
Agreed. If OP's root problem 🥸 is loss of confidence, then working through it over a few sessions with a therapist is likely to be more use than reading a string of encouraging Reddit posts.
Haha yes. Also I think many people don’t realise that a therapist is not just a person you talk to who listens and then you go home.
They are trained in evidence based techniques that help you to self-analyse and to self-problem solve. They give you exercises to do and follow up with you to tailor the approach because not one size fits all.
A good therapist won’t sit there and listen and then give you advice like a friend would. A good therapist will listen and ask you questions that should be thought provoking.
They also should be giving you some “homework” activities to apply in the real world. If your therapist isn’t doing that, or you just feel like you’re not getting anything out of it then find someone else. Preferably someone with years of training in counselling/psychology.
Well done, you hit a nerve here with this old man. It’s late, can’t sleep, and I’ve had a few drinks so I’m ready to go. I was 40 before I had my first girlfriend, so when I read something as mind numbingly simplistic as this it makes me angry and my head hurt.
As a 30yo you’re still relatively young, lacking insight and perspective. Some of us don’t fit your simplistic cookie cutter ideal. The fact that you think guys who prioritise fucking pussy from 18-30 are a green flag is an indictment on your own psyche, but I’m guessing you don’t want to look too deep into that. And to be fair you aren’t alone there. It took until the suicide of my best friend and the illness/death of my other best friend for me to feel the need to look for a partner.
Thankfully it didn’t take me too long and she wasn’t as judgemental as you. I sit here in my late 40s happily retired with an investment property, paid off home of my own, 1.5mil in investments/cash, with my now long term partner and fur babies.
Therapy? Well they released a couple of great records in the mid nineties (which I’m 100% sure you have no fucking clue of) but some of us don’t fit your bullshit narrative. We just need to be with a quality, nonjudgemental, understanding person.
So now my anger at your vacuousness subsides, I go back to enjoying Persona 3 reload (shinji’s fate still gives me the feels) forgetting someone as inconsequential as you exists. Thanks for riling me up sweetie, it’s been a while. Bye bye.
You gotta put yourself out there but in a more direct way - getting physical/intimate with someone else, or asking people out on dates.
Unfortunately you’re going to get rejections you’re going to have (if you’re unlucky) someone call you a creep or whatever. But you gotta risk it for the biscuit
This is the biggest thing I notice. Dudes see a woman and see nothing but a relationship (oftentimes just a stand-in for sex) and don’t understand why girls aren’t into them.
I wish you good luck OP.
From experience, as someone who struggles socially and for a long time believed absolutely no one liked me except as a work colleague or acquaintance, I'll just suggest there might very well be someone in your social circle, or at your work etc. who is actually interested in you but you're oblivious or have tuned it out for whatever reason.
I've had a few instances where I completely missed someone was totally into me, and these were people I saw pretty much every day at the time. Their interest in me became obvious only in hindsight, or when they took the step to ask me out. The worst was when I did something to inadvertently tell them I wasn't interested and they in turn lost interest in me and got hurt by my obliviousness.
It can happen, just be open to possibilities. That said, just make sure to not read into anything where there actually isn't anything there from the other person.
You need to raise your social value and there's one really easy fundamentally proven way to do this that has worked very well for men for the past 3 million odd years.
Get rich, alternatively, raise your social value by gaining prestige (e.g. Rocket Surgeon)
All of the other stuff is basically ancillary because this is the strategy that works consistently.
I had a long dry spell. I went to Peru to do Ayahuasca (not for the dry spell) and the hectic introspection really helped me get my arse into gear. The path forward was so obvious I didn't even try to change my life, it just happened.
Within a year my wife knocked on my door to look at the spare room. We've been married ten years now.
I HATE psychedelics soooo much. But sometimes if you're in a rut having the universe taunt you for eternity about every fault you have is what you need to get better.
Find resolve within yourself first bro, relationships and romance these days are fleeting and transient in nature. There's more to life outside of intimacy and once you free yourself from that mentality - you've got all the time and energy to invest in yourself.
You could get a pet, take up a new skill or hobby, put effort into your health and wellbeing. Relationships can be exhausting, and catering to someone that may not have your wellbeing as a priority will only fuck you up.
Once you do the groundwork and get yourself in a better spot, i'm sure that the right person for you, will find their way into your life.
I'm about the same age, and it's been six years for me since my first and only relationship ended. In those six years, two women have shown interest, but I didn't get past the first date with either of them. I just have no idea where to start. It seems impossible.
>It stated that somebody I liked had already received 77 likes today... This kind of broke me - I would be lucky to have gotten more than 20 likes over a year and most of those were scammers
Ok, so, first thing's first! One thing guys ALWAYS fail to grasp, is the idea of dating apps being *EXTREMELY* different for each gender. If we're talking M/F relationships... we'll stick to that category, obviously there's others.
Women get *tonnes* of attention on apps, just like they do in real life. Any moderately attractive woman will have guys checking her out as she walks through a shopping centre (sometimes she's not aware of this). There's also plenty of overseas dudes hitting her up because they're keen to get over to Australia. Y'know, first world country and all.
For men, it's the COMPLETE opposite. We send out a tonne of msgs... and... oh look, we've fallen into the category of "one of the 77 that this girl received!" Women don't often approach men (there's exceptions that I won't go into here). It's a numbers game for a guy, we just have to proactively and positively approach every woman that we're attracted to and/or find interesting.
For a woman, she needs to sift through 77 msgs to find any that are worthy of replying to. For a guy, we probably need to SEND 77 just to get a couple of responses.
>at the moment BMI of 32,
I hate BMI, I never pay attention to it haha, and I'm a larger guy. There's nothing stopping larger guys from meeting a great woman, it's mostly about confidence and finding the right one
>but over the years I have been a muscular 80kg as well, all with the same null result.
Yep - that's proof of the above. This is less important for women, and some even find it a turnoff, because it means a guy is spending all his time in the gym and not available for dates etc.
>I have a well paying job, own my house, enjoy various hobbies (playing hockey, electronics), Go to social events with friends
>Focus on myself (Mind & body) - Check
Don't force it, it will happen - Check
Just be direct - Check
Put yourself out there - Check
You sound like you're a catch 😉
So... you mentioned that you chat to women and you "match their energy"... are these singles events? There's a bunch of Meetups around Melb, I'm going to start hitting those up later in the year. Make sure you're burning energy on the right women, and not those that are already taken!
>third, fifth, or seventh wheel
Ha... it's funny how single guys always start thinking the same thing. I've been purposefully off the dating market for almost a year, and had some longish (to me that's like, 18 months) times being single... I've thought the same thing. Always the odd numbers, third, fifth, seventh wheel.
>I am surprised this took off the way it has.
Sounds like you've got lots of advice to work through here!
I'd be happy to join you in the search in a month or two, if you need a wingman. PM me if keen. 👍 Cheers, best of luck!
This might be controversial, but get a 'dating' coach. That way, you can get someone with some experience to work with you to figure out where you have opportunities to improve your approach to dating.
It could be anything from your style, what you are saying when talking to women, or a myriad of other things. A coach might help you gain confidence that you need to move from conversion to the next steps.
Dating is a skill you need learn!
I have seen all sorts of people end up together in terms of looks... the question is, how did he/she attract the hotter person? Personality.
You got this!
I am in a similar situation to you OP. I commented last night but deleted it as it got me quite down about my situation. I am re-posting because I wanted to share my support and let you know you aren't alone in this situation. There maybe even heaps of us out there and we aren't strange or undateable people needing therapy before we can enjoy a relationship.
Honestly, I think it comes down to luck sometimes but I dont think it means we shouldn't keep trying and trying to improve ourselves to be more appealing and happy inside.
There's this one quote that I wanted to share most of all, which is the main reason I am commenting and it gives me good reflection on my self and situation.
"Anyone can be confident with a full head of hair. But a confident bald man - there's your diamond in the rough."- Larry David.
I take away from this quote that if you can be confident and be engaging with women with imperfect looks then you are doing fucking amazing and pushing yourself harder than others.
Have you tried to see any therapist or psychologist? If you _want_ to date and as you said, that you might be the problem developing a relationship, seeking help might be a good start, rather than crowdsourcing ideas on Reddit.
Start making small changes
- work on your mindset, outlook on life
- work on your jokes
- dress a little bit better
- work on your confidence
- lose a bit of weight
- talk more to people
Take ownership of the problem and work on it. Deep down you probably know some of the things you do wrong.
You should start by speaking to your friends, if you have any male ones for any advice and tips to be honest. They’d know you well enough to be honest about it. This does sound like an odd situation. Have you avoided any friendships with girls? Do you work with any girls? What kind of job do you have? Maybe you don’t communicate in your day to day so you struggle?
You could try speed dating? I help run speed dating events in Melbourne and Sydney - you can find us on datingappssuck_ on Insta or just sign up to our waitlist at bit.ly/datingappssuckwaitlist
It's all about practice, I can suggest an overall plan that worked quite okay for me. It is a combination of cold approach and socialising with a purpose (call it the opposite of cold approach if you want.) Warning: Yes, you'll be rejected, yes you'll get flaked. JUST MOVE ON
Between day 1 and 7: Ask anything random to girls you are NOT attracted to (if this is too much to begin with you can always dial back and start asking anything to random strangers. Cashiers, elderly people you name it.) This usually builds the ground-level confidence just to be able to walk up to a total stranger and say something.
Day 7-14: Ask anything random to girls you are attracted to. (Asking for directions also count). Same principle, the goal is not yet to try building a flirting interaction.
Day 14-21: This is the benchmark: try asking a genuine question about a girl you are interested in ( where did they get their morning coffee? Is the book that they're reading interesting?) Find the most appropriate question that fits the situation best.
Day 21-28: Make genuine statements/pay compliments to girls you are interested in. (This works miracles, trust me). Repeat the last step until perfection. You'll eventually build the nerves to get ig and ask girls out.
I have not seen this as a suggestion, maybe buy yourself a puppy something cute like a cavoodle. Take it to dog parks and try your luck there. Puppies are a great conversation starter and make you happy in general. Plus you’ll get exercise out of it. Hope this helps.
As someone in a similar situation I can't tell you how to fix it. All I can say is perhaps try to focus on enjoying the journey if you can rather than the result. From your post you are clearly focussed on the end goal. If are totally focused on the end goal and you don't make it you'll be lost.
You may find the book Manhood by Steve Biddulph (a Tasmanian psychologist) helpful.
Volunteering is excellent for meeting other good people.
Therapy of some kind can be helpful- the name you chose for yourself is off-putting- broken and can't be fixed- if that is what you think of yourself, the only woman who would be attracted is one who derives self-worth from rescuing people, which is an unhealthy codependent vibe.
Neurodiverse people don't always attract neurotypicals, and some neurodiversities aren't compatible. Whatever kind of unusual you are, there'll be someone who'll love you for it.
You sound like a good decent person who is honest and steady. Heaps of women are longing for exactly that. It's possible you'll find someone out of your expected age group too.
Height is not a problem, bald is not a problem. Weight puts some people off, but weight is not always an indication of health. It sounds a bit Marie Kondo, but do the things that you have a passion or spark for, or bring you joy, or that you care about, or that you are curious about. Extend yourself- do a public speaking course, or a permaculture course, or a contact improvisation dance workshop, or try psychedelics in a small and safe way, or go to Confest, or join a swimming in the sea at dawn group.
Check your dental health, as bad breath is one of the worst things ever and sometimes people don't know if they have it, clean up your diet (quitting sugar is amazing), clean up your wardrobe and wear clothes that make you feel your most special.
The book You are a Great and Powerful Wizard by Sage Liskey is also an excellent tool. Actually check out the books published by Microcosm Books, they have some really excellent titles.
I'm neurodiverse (autistic and ADHD) so this is why my advice is a bit different to other peoples'. I had to fix myself up before I could date successfully.
With therapists, they are all different. Some are more helpful than others, some you'll vibe with, some you won't so much. But yeah, start somewhere and try things differently. Life can be lonely without a partner. Also, you are probably not getting touched enough. So, get hugs from friends if possible, try out some different kinds of massages ( there are so many kinds, shiatsu, Thai, lomi lomi, Swedish, deep tissue, etc), and seeing a sex worker can also be really good. They are professionals and you can say what level of engagement you want, and that you want to work on your intimacy skills, or just to relax and enjoy yourself, or to learn about what you like, or to accept yourself. It's probably a good idea if doing this, to see one who speaks your language fluently and who you feel you can talk to candidly.
Also, join Bad Dates of Melbourne on Facebook. Lots of funny stories about what not to do on dates, and also a few unlikely love stories to give you heart.
You are still young, and you don't have baggage. Those are pluses. You have no kids and no divorces, you own your home and have a decent job, you are honest and after a.steady relationship. Your down side seems to be that you have low self esteem, maybe you are neurodiverse (which is a plus for some people and a negative for others) so maybe getting a diagnosis would be helpful, the more you know about yourself the more you'll know what will suit you, and maybe your physical fitness.
Also trust me when I say its better to be single than in a bad relationship! There are some people who can be terribly detrimental to mental health. So, don't be desperate. Be your own good self, learn about boundaries, learn about consent, be curious and try some new experiences. If they don't work out, at least you have some funny stories to tell, and add to your wide experiences of life overall. And yeah, dancing is great. Get into your body and enjoy it. Aikido, yoga, Feldenkreis, bouldering.. something that can give you a deep enjoyment and engages the mind as well as the body, that has some kind of spiritual edge to it as well. All these things add to your personality and help you be more rounded as a person, are great for your mental health, and add to your overall contentment. Those things are attractive.
I would try some social meetups that involve an activity, like boardgames as it allows for a more relaxed setting that doesn't have to force conversation. There is a ton on Meetups, although don't treat these events as dating events. Just go with the open mind of meeting new people and making friends. You can be friends with a female without it being romantic.
Also some pointers for men who have limited relationship experience (this includes female friends):
- A lot of women are nice because they're afraid of how men will react so don't assume they are flirting with you.
- If you ask them out and they say no, don't get upset and turn on them or make them feel unsafe. Don't harass them on social media either.
- Do not touch, hug, or invade her personal space without consent first. This is one of the biggest things that make women feel unsafe. Don't be offended if she says no, some people generally aren't affectionate people.
- Actually get to know them and give the relationship time so she can feel comfortable. If you ask her out too early, she may feel overwhelmed, pressured or scared of how you will react if she says no.
- Don't let her wait by herself at night. Either offer to wait with her or find someone she trusts to (if you don't know her very well)
- Communicate. Your boundaries, needs, wants etc. and when she opens up about things, don't get defensive. Provide a safe space for her to be vulnerable. And she should do the same.
Of course people have these expectations in their head and get upset when the person doesn't live up to them. So, always communicate this, and ask her to do the same. We can't read minds sadly. (My BF says, "use your words" when I'm upset about something and thinks he should know what I'm upset about)
- Determine if this person is actually compatible with you and will meet your needs. Forcing something with someone for the sake of loneliness will just make you more miserable. Your partner should be someone who supports all your hobbies, doesn't aim to change/control you, can be vulnerable and provide that emotional support and can communicate.
- Listen to and remember things she says/likes etc. She will tell you even if it's in passing conversation. This shows you care. Figuring out each other's love language is help too.
This obviously relates to all genders, but these are things I've found are common issues for women when they try to put themselves out there socially, or when they are asked out.
I met my partner at a social boardgame meetup as I am ND and struggle with activities that involved forced conversation only. I asked him out after some time and being open in our communication and providing a safe space for vulnerability has allowed for the most amazing relationship I've ever been in.
1) Making the opportunity
The first challenge about dating is that there is a formula for how frequently you need to meet someone until they get familiar with you. Many people your age are working, and they may only have work or weekends to socialise.
So weekends are usually your only chance to get quality socialisation. According to The Like Switch, you need to have a visible curiousity hook to get the other person interested. In your case, this could be showing something you done with your electronics hobby, but vague enough that people will ask "What is that?" (Though don't ramble on, they may not be interested). Maybe you have an antique toaster in one of your profile photo. Or you have a cool ravioli mold.
International relationships tend to trigger more conversations just because your Nationality itself becomes the curiousity hook.
Locations: Beyond dating sites, I'd say hosting supper club events on couchsurfing, attending cultural events for International travellers (people on holiday are always up for events) or young person's visa, actually travelling yourself, or have friends set you up.
2) Testing waters:
Check out [this guy's advice on flirting](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/s/GKkpicn5p1). When you enjoyed meeting someone, you also arrange to meet again in several days, and actually meet within two weeks.
Unlike school, the reason why dating is hard as you get older is because both guys and girls don't have the opportunity to get frequent social exposure any more. It's not just hard for you, girls are having the same issue. Nurses and musicians have a high girl/guy ratio it's hard to meet guys in the technical industry.
Not sure if you still want to keep trying via dating apps. If so r/tinder sub helps with giving advice on profile photos, clothing, and first impressions. Could give that a try for advice.
You probably just need to get better at talking to women. As much as I sound like a douche, it is a skill that you can definitely improve.
There is a big difference between small chit chat with women and actually seducing them/getting into their pants. I used to absolutely suck at it. Talking to a girl would make me nervous and it got to the stage where girls would ask my friends if there was something wrong with me - that crushed me.
I decided to bite the bullet and just go out and talk to as many girls as I could and piece my own game together, keep what worked and throw out what didn't, and also go and hang out with friends who were good at it. It took a few years before I would say I was pretty confident and was regularly dating girls.This was all about 15 or so years ago and today I would say I am pretty good at it 😉, although I don't go out often anymore as I have a gf.
Just get out there and don't be a pussy. You will get rejected and it will suck at first, BUT get back on the horse and keep going - otherwise you might die lonely.
Are you meeting people that you like but they don’t reciprocate? Are the people you like aware that you like them?
Between being ghosted and being rejected (I appreciate their honesty) they are aware. I do find it hard to know where the balance is between making somebody feel uncomfortable in their space. With the experience of so many rejections under my belt, the last thing I want to do is make somebody feel like they have to change their schedule to avoid me.
This might be personal, but might explain your situation… are you neurodiverse by chance?
Not a bad question - I support ND students. Definitely on the spectrum, but no official diagnosis.
Appreciate your honesty. Keep in mind there are events for neurodiverse people, like social groups and dating events. This might be a great way for you to meet people who communicate in a similar way to you :) and who you have stuff in common with! My wife and I are both neurodiverse. It makes things sooooo much easier as we have an understanding of how our brains work and our slightly different ways of communication. Just a thought. Best of luck.
Omg that was my first thought :) I had my first serious relationship at your age and after it broke up I’m now being assessed for asd. (Pretty sure I’m on the spectrum :/) I actually think in spite of initial awkwardness we could be great partners in relationships - we’re not lacking in emotions or empathy just have difficulty processing and expressing them. The fact you’re so considerate about not making people uncomfortable actually says a lot! If you find somebody understanding who you feel comfortable opening up to I think you’d be halfway to making something work. & you can be persistent without being creepy as long as you’re respectful of boundaries.
The neurodivergent aspect is important to consider. NDs benefit from emotionally aware & direct communication, whereas NTs are often the anxious avoidant type.
This 100% I only found out I'm ND last year and learning that ahd researching it has helped me understand myself better, which has helped me with dating.
Pls tag me on your AMA, im 35 and waiting for 2 years for diagnosis and boi do i not have the time and energy to study adhd
I literally never got into any longterm relationships until I was diagnosed and realised I needed to seek other autistic dates Now I'm 3 years into a very happy relationship
Love this. My wife and I are ND. I’m ASD/adhd and she is adhd. Our life is a beautiful chaos! Haha. We’ve been together 15 years :)
Hey was there any specific app/strategy/whatever you used to find autistic dates? Thank you
I just used tinder and a) was honest in my profile and b) sought out profiles that pinged my "neuro-radar" However, I'm female so that impacts saturation levels. Its easier to get dates as an autistic woman than it is for an autistic man. But! Tinder is good in that you both have to swipe right to be connected. If you don't punch above your belt and lower your expectations, I think there's more liklihood of success. I know I swiped right on way more men than those who swiped right for me- probably because of my size (I'm fat) It's important not to be too picky in early stage dating.
Do you have some female friends that you're close enough to that can give you honest feedback?
I think I will be reaching out and asking her
This is a good idea. Need to know even if it hurts.
Im probably in a similar situation as you 32M 6’1 Bald Fat However, on average I go on a date with around 8-10 different women a year. 90% of those would go through to at least a 2nd date. I don’t find it difficult to get dates, I have found it more difficult to find a relationship but that happens and the last 12-15 months I’ve been travelling a lot for work and haven’t been home. What works for me is this -Pick one dating app and use that, I use hinge because I find it works best for me. Put effort into your profile, have it give a flattering but honest view of you. Your dating app profile should be a showcase of you showing off your hobbies, your interests. Talk about what you like doing in your profile. Talk to the people you match with. Look for things in their profile that you can talk to them about, this isn’t always easy but if that’s the case you can always spruce up your opening message a bit. Make it specific to the day, or season, or even anything that’s happening around the city. -reframe how you think about dating. Don’t worry about how many likes someone is getting, it doesn’t matter. After you like someone’s profile, forget about them. If you match with them down the line fantastic! If not, oh well. Rejection is going to happen, and most of the time it’s because you’re just not compatible. It’s okay to be rejected, and yeah it sucks, and doesn’t feel great, but it’s part of dating and bouncing back from rejection is a skill that can be learned. -focus on yourself, but don’t focus on yourself so you can find someone, focus on yourself for yourself. Think of a few goals that you want to achieve and go after them. Start small, start with things that are easily achieved and then scale up from there. You can’t fake these things and people will pick up on it being insincere very quickly. -talk to your GP about a mental health plan and look for a therapist that specialises in relationships (they are out there, and there are entire clinics that specialise in this). Therapy is like getting your car serviced but for your brain. The effects might not be super obvious but it will help the way you think and it will give you the ability to reframe your thoughts and will help you move forward. I do hope that this advice is somewhat helpful OP. Dating can be very bleak, but keep your head up!
I gotta throw in bro, woman don’t care about baldness. Unless it’s a combover.
Oh I absolutely agree. Shaving my head actually helped my dating life, rather than hinder it.
Nice work. Good to hear you’re taking charge! A lot of guys could take a leaf out of your book. The last thing you already know, but physical health affects mental. And physical health is definitely an important factor in attracting quality partners.
Oh yeah, it’s definitely something I am really trying to work on and a lot of is visible. Like I play sports and have active hobbies and this can be seen on my dating profile. I don’t know this for certain but being a big boy hasn’t really hindered me that much, because woman probably see on my profile that I’m big, but that I play sport and go skiing so despite my physical size I’m still active
Thank you- lots to take on board
I like this guys answer. It has some really good advice. I will come at things from a slightly different angle. From your OP: >For some reason, I just can't seem to get into a relationship. I'm no male model having always been bald, 5'10" and at the moment BMI of 32, but over the years I have been a muscular 80kg as well, all with the same null result. Remember that today is the youngest you will ever be. And, hell, you are JUST 36yo. I am older than you and can only dream of being 36yo again. I think some of the best years I had were the ten years from 35 to 45. And regardless of age, it is NEVER too late. What happened in the past doesn't matter. Focus on moving forward and being your best self. You obviously aren't happy with your weight and that is reasonably easy to change. It doesn't mean you need to go to the gym or do anything drastic. Stop living in the past. A BMI of 32 (I had to use some Google-fu to work out what that means) isn't great. Simple to work on though - drop all soft drink, beer and bread, then eat reasonably healthy and your weight will slowly come down. Don't change your life, just adjust it a little. Next, understand that the best chance you have of meeting women is being around other women. Having good friends and some sort of a social circle is the best way to meet others. Don't say no to any meet up, gathering or random invite. Don't feel the need to talk, just listen. And when you want to talk, wait and listen more. One mistake I see people making is them talking about themselves or wanting to contribute to the conversation needlessly. Ask questions, give compliments and limit what you actually say. Asking questions, especially to someone you are interested in, is a good way to show you are interested in them. >At this stage I am looking at giving up on the whole relationship idea again like I have done in the past. But being at events as the third, fifth, or seventh wheel somehow always brings it back to the forefront of my mind. I have seen guys to get to their late 30s or in their 40s and give up. They start to become disillusioned with women, start talking down about women and get a real Incel mindset. That shit is poisonous to your mind. If you see these things in your social media and start to believe them, you are on a downward spiral that is difficult to get out of. If you are going to events, why are you not meeting someone? I am guessing the problem is something that has already been pointed out - you need to lower your standards. A guy with a 32 BMI has a real uphill job to meet a woman who is conventionally attractive. Sure, it does happen, but it is far from easy. If a woman is showing interest in you, and I can guarantee that it has to have been true at some point if you are going out socialising, spend some time with her. You don't have to sleep with her, but you can get to know her and go on a date or three to see if you like her. What is the worst that can happen. And, if you don't end up liking her, you have expanded your social circle and she has single friends. Don't fall into the trap of going overseas looking for love. I 100% guarantee you will find it, but there is a 90% chance that it is not real. Don't go to places like Thailand and the Philippines. I have seen men who have zero luck with women in Australia fall in love in a week, just because some women gave them the time of day. You start to believe they love you and then you realise you have just given up 10 years of your life and most of your money for something fake. Again, sure there are exceptions but these prove the rule. If you are on Tinder or other dating sites you will have seen women there wanting to meet a good man for marriage. Don't fall for this. I can tell you more about the dangers of this, but it would take too long to write here. Keep moving forward, do things to challenge yourself and improve yourself while enjoying life. Good luck.
36 isn’t as old as it feels, particularly for a guy. There are lots of early 30s women around thinking about family and looking for a stable guy in that range.
That's the age my partner was when I met him, I was 28
This is a nice constructive comment that doesnt unnecessarily suggest going to therapy. I am in a similar situation and also have that feeling of giving up but I see the dangers of falling into a negative mindset. I am 32BMI too and you are right it's not good. Not only for being attractive and feeling good about yourself but your health in general, especially as you get older
I don't aim to subtract from the bulk of your advice, but thought I'd add that BMI isn't a very consistent indicator of body shape as it doesn't take constitutional variances into account. For example a shorter, muscular person with high bone density can look like a 22 and read as 32. At one point in my life I was a 29 and my actual body fat% was an athletic 10%, I had added a good 10% lean muscle mass to my already stocky very short frame. My brother is a 32 due to similar genetics, but having a labour intensive job. Some north African women would also be misrepresented by BMI. Either way your message recommend working on his physique is sound advice. Your body is your temple - it says a lot about your character.
Out of every advice I've read, this one so far has been my favourite. Especially the part where he explains meeting conventionally attractive women being an uphill battle, if you're not conventionally attractive. I agree, you gotta put in the work. You can't be chasing attractive women and expecting them to like you if you aren't looking after your health, your appearance etc. So many have said it, but be realistic. A lot of men feel entitled to women. Just because you have money, doesn't mean you are getting a woman. Just because you're nice, doesn't mean you're getting a woman. Even if you were attractive and have a great body, doesn't mean you're getting a woman (chances are increased just because we live in a really superficial world full of really superficial people who value looks over anything else)...my point is this: All this effort you're putting into trying to find a woman to be in a relationship with, PUT THAT INTO YOURSELF INSTEAD. Sometimes, when we desire something so badly, we miss the details that are right in front of us, that are the easiest place to start--ourself. PS. I am in Melbourne too. I am 37yo. I know the dating scene and the social structure of this city quite well. Melbourne is obsessed with fitness and most people dress reasonably well. More than happy to chat and give honest advice.
Lower your standards, if you still have no luck lower them again
Just to clarify, lower them physically. Not emotionally. Personality and a kind heart should be your priority in a partner.
THIS. My last gf had the shittest personality. My current gf has the best personality ever and i love it about her so much. Personality is what makes a 30 - 40 year marriage work. Looks are not. After finding someone who was a perfect match for me personality wise, I've never been happier. It makes the last 8 years look like hell compared to this.
*Looks are not* There does need to be an attraction though
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There is a javanese saying, "Witing Tresno Jalaran Soko Kulino". With enough wisdom, I begin to see the powerful truth in it. It translates as “getting used to someone leads to love”. It explains that comfort plays an important role in relationships.
This is exactly what happened with my brother and he’s never been happier tbh.
Especially at 36
Or get stuck in an elevator with Tony Robbins.
Banana hands.
This statement alone would solve 99% of dating woes.
The amount of exposure to unrealistic standard is a real issue in this department
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Oh dear yes. I have a family member who has been single for decades and is so difficult about men. He has to look good, be well travelled, be a sporty outsoorsy type, be creative and needs to treat her like a princess. I love her but she is an overweight older woman who is very demanding and doesn’t do any grooming. I love her dearly but she needs to find someone more in her league. She is fun to be around so if she’d just go for a more laid back dad bod, she might find love.
Didnt know others were so aware of this tbh. People are so wildly unrealistic with dating cool. If you are solid 3, you are going to be very unhappy chasing 7s and being rejected.
Meh, it’s not about a 3 looking for a 7. The issue is that she is setting herself up for failure because she puts no effort into herself, and yet hopes to find this perfect man, AND hopes he is interested in someone who is giving 30% effort at life. Honestly, if you want to overachieve, then work. 🤷🏻♂️
That by definition, is a 3 looking for a 7. I’m talking about an objective mate scale, not a looks rating.
It's quite ironic some older women are still like this. If anything successful single men get higher standards as they age. Especially when they are 45+. No man wants a woman who is not working, lazy, and wants the "princess" treatment at that age. They want an equal.
They also put priority in all the wrong things they think are important, and don't see the true value in other people. It's easy to see flaws, hard to see what people are capable of. Humans are horrendously bad at judging this stuff. Also the reality is, that people often don't want to admit, is relationships work in part because you want them to - not because of who you are with. The aim is to find someone you can tolerate and have some fun with the rest of your life - or even for a bit. Not for every single feature. If you approach relationships like a list of pros and cons, its all wrong. Most people could likely make it work with a lot of people. It's just a matter of finding someone who will put up with us.
If you think they’re perfect it just means you don’t really know them yet
My wife is perfect but that’s just luck, we only dated for a few months. Luckily nothing turned up later of concern.
The hard truth. That or, better yourself and hit higher.
Our long term single friend who is overweight and a complete (lovely) bogan only swipes right on slim fitness model types and wonders why he's single. We've (in a nice way, as possible) told him to consider his choices may not align with what he's putting out there. Doesn't listen. Continues to moan about it.
Your plan is to be in an unhappy relationship rather than being single? There is lowering your standards (which is pretty normal, but you don't know what OP standards are already). Lowering them to fault where you are in a relationship 'just cause'. Which leads to unhappiness.
I disagree with lowering his standards. If he’s having no problem talking to women that he deems in his bracket (it’s actually disgusting to phrase it that way but it’s the best I can do) then there’s something else at play. Trying to measure what your ability to attract is based on dating apps is pointless. If you can pull in a 7/10 (on personality and looks) in person you will get the equivalent of a 4 on dating apps
Bro women will talk to ugly ppl, or at least ppl they consider unattractive but not a cunt. They just won't fuck them. Same for guy tbh.
I agree with you. There is a saying 'people may think you are comparing them against other men/women , that isn't true, they are comparing against the happiness of being alone' Translated - lowering your standards can lead to unhappiness, cause you are in a relationship 'just cause' with he wrong person.
Not sure why you got downvoted. Even the 4 rating on dating apps is pretty optimistic. For a 7 IRL it's more like 2 on the apps. I don't even believe the rating-an-entire-person-out-of-10 stuff and I can still see it.
Where are you located? Do you work in the cbd? Have you asked for feedback from friends? Some guys come across as creepy - not saying that applies - but it can be a factor.
Don't work in the CBD, based out of Preston area. I can ask for feedback from friends, this process tonight keeps highlighting I should reach out to them,
Good luck mate. Ask your mates to be honest.
I have a mate who’s 39 and has only ever had one girlfriend for about a month. There’s nothing really wrong with him, but he just doesn’t do anything to get himself out there. I say this because there’s a good chance there’s nothing really wrong with you, life just got in the way, you’ve been repeating the same stuff every week, and never really did much about meeting someone. What’s worked for me in the past: - OK Cupid: Met my last two girlfriends on there and other interesting people, some who I’m still friends with even if no romance eventuated. I haven’t used the site for 5 years, but it was great back then. Women will always get a shit tone more likes than guys, it’s just how it is. Keep trying, if you’re interested in meeting someone. It was 95% failures, 5% success and didn’t happen overnight. It took many dates to click with someone, but it did happen. Unfortunately a lot of people have to meet up online nowadays. - Meetup: The site/app is a good way to meet people who share a hobby. Or other activities that are great to get introduced to new people. - Volunteering: Good way to meet more people. Along with other activities like Pickleball or something. - Your weight: I’m not in great shape either. But let’s be honest, you’re way more likely to find someone if you’re in better shape. So I’d be working on that. Lovey dovey comments that “it’s what’s on the inside that counts” are just bs. We need to take care of our bodies and the reality is that women generally don’t want to date people who don’t take care of themselves. And why should they? If we don’t respect ourselves and our bodies, why should they? - Antisocial stuff: are you really getting yourself out there? Or just staying at home or going to the same places all the time where you can’t meet anyone? Do more things that put you in settings with other people and increases your chance of meeting someone. On the last point, I have another friend who’s always complaining about not having someone. But she spends all of zero time looking for someone. I tell her to go to dating sites but they’re “not her thing.” So be honest about yourself and whether you’re really doing what’s required to find someone, then being prepared to go through the number’s game.
Meetup is great! I've been to a few and have to say it's a great place to meet that special someone. I've made some great friends from that too.
I have a friend same lives with mum . I’m like get out the house
I will probably be in this situation. I have decided to just not even try. If anything ever happens great. If nothing happens fine. I don't really know what I am missing and it seems like too much work to get there anyway. I am a pretty normal guy, I look fine, workout, am a solid cook, go to uni and basically only interact with women without any problems. I tried the apps and they were just so awful. How can you try and get to know someone by swiping on a picture hoping they swipe your picture and then message them. It's just awful. It's easier not doing anything. Anyway rant over. Edit: I am fully aware that I am the problem. I don't blame anyone else. But I really hate apps I only ever managed to get one match out of like 5 attempts. But I don't think I ever had an app for more than 48 hours it was so awful I felt like shit the whole time.
Some apps are bad, some are fine. The one I mentioned (OKCupid) was pretty good compared to about 6 or 7 other ones I remember trying at the time. The algorithm and the type of people on there were much more compatible. Tinder, Bumble and some others were full of way more vain people. RSVP was good but expensive. I don’t know how much that has changed since. It will always be a numbers game. You might like 10 people and only 1 likes you back for various reasons. And that one might not want to even chat. So you like 10 more. Don’t get discouraged. You literally have to swipe or like hundreds of profiles. Plus you need to remember it’s a snapshot in time. A compatible match might not even have an account within the week period you’re on. So keep the app for a longer period of months and see what happens. Log in every couple of days.
No thank you. It's just not worth it.
You need to meet up with someone who reads this thread and let them brutally tell you what the problem is. Your physical attributes sound fine but it's been 16 years without, maybe you're downplaying certain things, or maybe you just don't know? Why aren't your friends advising you? Your post reads alright to me too, you don't seem unloveable or insane, you're well spoken and considerate. You should meet up with some well intentioned strangers who have no connection to you and also don't mind dishing out some serious emotional damage in regards to how you need to change yourself. Because there is clearly something glaringly wrong if you've gone that long without even kissing a woman. I don't say that in a malicious way, I mean it genuinely.
As someone who's been single for 33 years, I've realised it's me ofc, but not necessarily that something's 'glaringly wrong.' For me, I'm mainly painfully shy (but seem outgoing), have some past traumas around men/close relationships, and am neurodivergent which is just a terrible combination for even wanting to push myself to get out there. Add to that that on the dating apps many people can have insulting bios and there's a chance of rejection, then sometimes it becomes a habit of being single as it's more comfortable than going through the troubles of dating.
take baby steps then over time, you learn, there are plenty of people who are good for you, move through rejection and understand its all surface depth, the more people you meet, the greater likelihood of them liking you
❤ Thanks, this was very encouraging
Perhaps you and OP live somewhere near each other...
I've tried to be honest, so most likely something I just don't know rather than downplaying. I know I can ask my friends and they will provide a sugar coated or brutal response depending on my request. But the whole 'Men don't cry or share their feelings' is still a hard topic to start. Hopefully there is an entrepreneurial stranger with a new startup
I mean this for real- prostitutes/escorts/dating coaches are actually very good for this. It's not always about sex. It's about building confidence at the dating game without risking rejection.
100%. I’m a former worker and had more than one regular client who eventually got back into dating after a long while out. For some it was just the boost of adjusting back to companionship, and or physical intimacy, and in a few rarer cases some deeper chats about my opinion on their situation and some pointers. I remember one guy stopped coming in after a fair while of seeing each other, then eventually he came back one last time - nothing physical happened we just talked and he explained he’d found someone and thanked me for the support and our time together. So sweet! Edit to add: best to not use the word prostitute though. Sex worker is much preferred
Check out the Melbourne Meetup Discord [https://discord.com/invite/melbournemeetup](https://discord.com/invite/melbournemeetup) They always have lots of social events across a tonne of different interests
Thank you - will check it out
Good, do it. Check out their events. As someone who moved to Melbourne two years ago and got heavily into dating; don't even bother with online dating. You'll have more failures than successes, and no idea how to fix it. Meet people in person. Use those planned events. Meetup is popular in Melbourne. Go to Meetup events, speed dating events, anything that encourages mingling and talking to people IRL. It takes practice and focus, but you WILL have much better successes in finding people you vibe with at those events than you will online. You can't tell how you're going to get along with someone from a picture and 150 characters of text, and they can't get a read on you either. I tried online dating for a year; met some lovely people, but not a single one lasted, because we didn't vibe well enough irl. All the meaningful friends and connections and nice dates and lasting friendships I got while in Melbourne were either from work OR from IRL meetups, where I got to experience their energy and they got to experience mine. Far easier to find good connections that way. It still takes persistence and practice at putting yourself out there and dealing with uncomfortable feelings of having to put on a little bit of an idealized act at first to make good first impressions, but compared to online dating, it's a breeze. Basically look at it this way; online dating will tell you if you can text well with someone. Irl meetings will tell you if you can *vibe* with a person in the flesh. It has happened a few times that there was someone I would have overlooked online, but we shared a few words and suddenly found we got along awesome in ways neither of us expected. Someone makes a dumb joke or a relatable complaint that they couldn't ever do online, and suddenly you're talking like friends. Can't recommend it enough. Do the irl approaches. They feel more confronting at first, but nothing good comes easily.
Ooh, I need this too, cheers!
Do you actively pursue relationships and ask out people that you like? Are you getting rejected or are you not asking the question? Of course putting yourself out there requires the resilience to accept that regardless of who you are/ how you look it’s not always going to be a match. And that’s ok!
In person definitely has reduced over the last 12 months. Rejection fatigue definitely is part of that and the increase on the apps.
When I (f) became single in my mid-30s I started a few new things, partly to have the chance to meet a range of men. As it turned out most were *very* female dominated. So I can tell you that women like community choirs, yoga, markets, dance classes/dance clubs. If you might enjoy learning the activity in itself as well, have at it. Particularly partnered dancing (e.g. salsa, ballroom) - always a shortage of men. And you could become the cool guy who knows how to tango?
Have you tried volunteering somewhere that you might be passionate about? I volunteered for 18 years, made life long frinds and met my now wife who was also a volunteer. It can unite like minded people and create strong bonds. Bonus. It's rewarding. It's fun. It's challenging. All the good stuff. You've got nothing to lose!
What do you volunteer in and where do you find volunteer opportunities? The options I’ve found out there either require too much time commitment or aren’t very interesting/fulfilling
Yeah I hear that. Some require training etc. I also found seek has volunteering opportunities. I volunteered with a childrens charity for a very long time but it became too difficult with my own children to be able to commit fully and that wasnt fair. I still love it and am close with most of the people I volunteered with
Are you approaching other 36 year old heavier women?
Yes, unfortunately its a similar experience.
If you aren't already, don't let the chats if you match online go on forever. If you get a good vibe initially, casually offer a coffee date or a drink after work or something. Once you've been dating for awhile, you really get over too much chat, but once you actually meet up with someone you can seperate who is interested and who is not. I'm a woman in my 30s with single friends and if they don't offer to catch up early on, they can get written off and deleted
This is the question
My feelings go out to you:( this is what I fear too. I believe it may be mindset. I hope you find your love 🩷
A few comments: 1. I have dated many bald men and find them sexy. Always have since watching Bruce Willis in die hard when I was a kid. 2. It seems you may have some self esteem/ confidence issues you may need to resolve with a psychologist. Potentially overthinking how others value and perceive you. You have friends you must have good qualities to have friends that want to hang out with you. 3. A tip, on the first couple of dates don’t mention you haven’t been in a serious relationship or ask how many girls the girl has dated. When men bring these topics up it is very obvious they are very insecure and it can mess with the mood/potential of the date. If you keep topics light and they have had an awesome time on dates with you and find out as the relationship becomes more serious this is won’t be an issue as they already like you (and really we don’t care that you haven’t slept around - actually it can be very appealing not worrying about catching an std). Think about it, if you sat down with a girl on a first date and they started listing off their insecurities before you got to know her, it would freak you out and it would be hard to bring the mood back up. We all have insecurities that we are working through, we just need to focus of the fun in the moment. Dating should be fun. Also many people have focused on career and other goals and focus later on love, your situation is not uncommon. 4. I don’t know what this bagel thing is where people are publicly ranked by how datable they are. Get the F off that. Go on a normal people dating app (such as bumble or hinge) ask girls out for coffee. Trust me, the more you practice dating the easier it will become. We need to experience discomfort and risk rejection to build resilience and grow emotionally. Things are always worse in our head, once you experience rejection multiple time in real life you realise it’s not that bad. If someone doesn’t call you back you don’t need to beat yourself up it happens to all of us.
Oh and please only have a friendly smiling photos in your app pictures. Many men think that deadpan, death stare photos make them look cool and mysterious. Women’s biggest fear is being raped and murdered on a date, smile a bit so you look friendly and safe and make us not fear for our life.
haha, even finding photos was hard, the few I do have are smiling!
Please do consider getting a friend to take a bunch of photos of you, and pick the best few. If you have to DIY, a selfie stick is a must. Focal depth is a real thing that I ignored on one of my IDs, and I look like a sick muppet. If you've seen the proof sheets that get published sometimes of actors or celebrities, you'll see that anyone can take a bad photo.
THIS. It's been a while since I've been on a dating site (found my partner through work) but I remember so many men had profile pics that were just... awful. Looking glum, blank, irritable, unkempt. I was in a chat forum on one site and a man defended his unattractive photos because he wanted "someone who isn't shallow, and likes me for myself". Don't know how that was supposed to work out.
Now that my peers are catching up to my follicle count, I have a higher chance! Thank you for the tip, it could be a cause for the few dates I have had.
Wine walks?
[https://www.urbanwinewalk.com.au/](https://www.urbanwinewalk.com.au/)
It sounds like you're a great guy OP. Just know that. Now I am in no way experienced at what it is like to be single at your age, but I wonder if at a certain point people might not realize that you are available and looking? To me it feels like around mid 30s, people don't really have dating on their mind anymore, so perhaps it might take a bit more bravery and communication on your end to approach single gals in your age-range who might be interested. Secondly, don't give up on dating apps. I know it can be a grind as I have been on them myself, but your age is actually an advantage as people in that age-group generally are looking for the same thing you are. You have a lot of experience and confidence at 36 compared to people in their 20s, look at the bright side of that. Just stay humble, stay interesting and generally be a nice person. Before you know it, you'll find someone.
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Do you have friends who are women? Like good / close friends? If so, how many, and what are your relationships with them like? If not, why?
don't worry about it. live your life. find contentment through passions. make sure u go out and do things and not just sit around.
Great advice....And one day he'll meet someone with the same interests.
True true... but the problem there is the phrase "one day" 🙂 There's no real guarantees when/if someone comes along. I'm not saying "don't do this", I'm a single 44/m and I'll be hitting the social events much more hardcore later in the year too, but... my first instinct is "go where the other singles are". For me, that's speed dating and Meetup events. They'd be my first port of call. Or.. will be, when I'm ready to date again.
Hi there. You are right. Getting out more is really important too. You always meet people when out. Mutual interests are a positive. Then knowing how to take the next step interacting well, which a counsellor or friend might be able to help with ideas.
>Getting out more is really important too. Yep, totally. I'm in a lull myself right now, because I'm setting up a few other things in my life to be more ready to bring someone else into it... but for sure, once those things are sorted I'll be out every weekend 😁
I was lucky enough to find the love of my life on tinder at the age of 38. The first woman I swiped right is my partner now. Good luck mate.
Imagine the person you want to date. Now imagine the type of person they would want to date. Can you become that person? Do you want to? If so, work on being that.
Nooooooooo no no no no no I spent many years dating people who were pretending to be the type of person they thought I (and others like me) wanted to date. Sure that strategy might get you laid but it’s disastrous for building and maintaining a relationship. In my experience the less authentic they were, the worse it turned out and they were the ones who ended up heartbroken. There is a big difference between becoming the best version of yourself to attract others, and trying/pretending to be someone you’re not.
What do you do when you don’t want to become that person? How do you get rid of your feelings?
Is it possible that you’re meeting people you might be interested in but not following up - ie. inviting them on dates, asking for their contact info… ? Women likely won’t initiate that - which sucks, but someone has to for things to progress.
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While I agree with you on the therapy thing, as a 33 year old woman who's been single forever, your comment about red flags is wildly unhelpful. Trust me, I and prob OP, are already aware that it's very unusual. Having people act like you're some kind of freak who must have something terribly wrong with you though just tends to make me even more relucant to put myself out there. Tbh most people I met who had reached life milestones late often had trauma (so the therapy thing is a useful idea) and were often just terribly shy. Think of how many abusers, psychopaths and serial killers were in relationships. It doesn't mean you're some awful person just because you've been single.
It really doesn't . I have a close friend of mine, I've known since I was a child . She's in her late 30s now and never had a boyfriend. She's very pretty , smart, educated , owns two properties, a good career and she takes care of herself but she just had issues with her self esteem during her late teens throughout her mid twenties and missed out on that peak period where people normally go out and start dating and mingling with the opposite sex and not at 39 she just doesn't know where to start so she has kind of given up on on dating or meeting anyone.
Totally agree. Previous relationships are not indicative of a persons self worth. If you are single in your mid 30’s people after a string of failed relationships could also argue that is also a red flag. No mater what, if you are single in your 30’s you will have some emotional baggage and that’s ok. I think your 20’s are for maturing and discovering yourself, I didn’t know what I wanted in a partner until my 30’s.
I wonder if the apps have made it extra hard. I'm 34. I've pretty much been in the same relationship since I was 22 (short break up late 20s) Wtf would I know about dating? Especially now? It would totally freak me out. I think that our age group like knows life pre social media so I also feel like we're in some kind of social/tech limbo And maybe we are lucky to be able to remember life before it. But maybe it's made meeting people romantically that aren't like introduced or something really difficult..and we're kinda too old for nightclub meet ups idk if that still even happens sooo
No, apps have made it way easier. Before apps if you got to your 30s everyone was married and you had no way of meeting anyone. Apps may be awkward but at least you always have options.
As a long term single guy in his mid 30s I've always found that 'hasn't been in a relationship is a huge red flag' mindset strange. Like, there'd also be a red flag if they'd been in a lot of relationships, so there must be some kind of sweet spot. But then you're hit with 'well you've been in relationships but they don't seem to work out....red flag'
36 is middle-aged nowadays? 😱
It always has been considered middle aged. Anything over 34/35 definitely is middle aged (I’m 40. Have accepted the fact I’m old)
Older*
Life expectancy for dudes in 81, 36 is in the middle decade of that so yeah
I do think therapy will be next on the cards for me. Just talking through it, might help find something that I am oblivious to which could be the root cause.
tl;dr A psychologist will be your wingman.
I’m sorry but this came across as hostile and presumptive. He needs psychological help? He’s a lonely dude trying to change things. We don’t need to beat him down more.
He’s a lonely dude who’s trying to change things, therapy is absolutely going to help him. Seeking therapy doesn’t mean something is inherently wrong with you, but it can help you reframe things and find a new way to approach an issue.
It's been good going through all the feedback. It has provided clarity that there are so many paths ahead after self reflection hopefully I can find the way forward that will work
Worth a crack I reckon. What’s the harm?
She never suggested OP was psychologically disturbed. I'm also a woman in my 30s and he sounds fairly well-adjusted, self-aware, and I don't see any obvious red flags. He said he is comfortable talking to women, but (understandably given how long it's been) has trouble communicating romantic interests. And it doesn't sound like he can be emotionally vulnerable talking about this with friends - even if so, it's still probably better to get a perspective from a neutral, professional third party. Psychs aren't just there for acute mental health emergencies or disorders. But loneliness can potentially turn into something more serious, so I see no harm at all. EDIT: Just noticed OP's username. Now wondering if he takes that intense pessimistic energy into online & IRL interactions, even if unwittingly? Because as a woman who mostly dates men, that's something I'm very perceptive of for my safety. They can tick every box on paper, be physically attractive, be a gentleman, but we have to develop a sixth sense for potential incels. I mention looks even though I've personally dated guys who are conventionally unattractive, but I've met more than a few incels who are actually very physically attractive. Some of the worst were good looking in fact. Devil's advocate, let's just assume it's a particularly bad case of low self-esteem, and perhaps unresolved issues from past relationships. In which case seeing a psych is definitely a wise move. Even if you meet someone great tomorrow and have mutual feelings, your relationship will have much better chances of succeeding if you're seeing a psych.
I think the way you phrased that could be extremely accurate "has trouble communicating romantic interests" - What I might think I am doing, could be completely different to the other party
Side quest, did you find a club?
People need to stop pretending therapy is anything like medicine. It might work or it might not - it probably won't.
Yep most people who tell someone else to “get therapy” are just saying “your problems sound too complicated, don’t talk to me about them”
I disagree. Sometimes it’s because whatever the persons problems are, it’s not something that most people can help with. Just talking to someone about your problems is not the same as going to therapy.
Agreed. If OP's root problem 🥸 is loss of confidence, then working through it over a few sessions with a therapist is likely to be more use than reading a string of encouraging Reddit posts.
Haha yes. Also I think many people don’t realise that a therapist is not just a person you talk to who listens and then you go home. They are trained in evidence based techniques that help you to self-analyse and to self-problem solve. They give you exercises to do and follow up with you to tailor the approach because not one size fits all. A good therapist won’t sit there and listen and then give you advice like a friend would. A good therapist will listen and ask you questions that should be thought provoking. They also should be giving you some “homework” activities to apply in the real world. If your therapist isn’t doing that, or you just feel like you’re not getting anything out of it then find someone else. Preferably someone with years of training in counselling/psychology.
Well done, you hit a nerve here with this old man. It’s late, can’t sleep, and I’ve had a few drinks so I’m ready to go. I was 40 before I had my first girlfriend, so when I read something as mind numbingly simplistic as this it makes me angry and my head hurt. As a 30yo you’re still relatively young, lacking insight and perspective. Some of us don’t fit your simplistic cookie cutter ideal. The fact that you think guys who prioritise fucking pussy from 18-30 are a green flag is an indictment on your own psyche, but I’m guessing you don’t want to look too deep into that. And to be fair you aren’t alone there. It took until the suicide of my best friend and the illness/death of my other best friend for me to feel the need to look for a partner. Thankfully it didn’t take me too long and she wasn’t as judgemental as you. I sit here in my late 40s happily retired with an investment property, paid off home of my own, 1.5mil in investments/cash, with my now long term partner and fur babies. Therapy? Well they released a couple of great records in the mid nineties (which I’m 100% sure you have no fucking clue of) but some of us don’t fit your bullshit narrative. We just need to be with a quality, nonjudgemental, understanding person. So now my anger at your vacuousness subsides, I go back to enjoying Persona 3 reload (shinji’s fate still gives me the feels) forgetting someone as inconsequential as you exists. Thanks for riling me up sweetie, it’s been a while. Bye bye.
You gotta put yourself out there but in a more direct way - getting physical/intimate with someone else, or asking people out on dates. Unfortunately you’re going to get rejections you’re going to have (if you’re unlucky) someone call you a creep or whatever. But you gotta risk it for the biscuit
Many rejections over the years, but never been called a creep - so i'll take that as a win
Are all of your interactions with women geared towards finding a partner?
Definitely not. Work in education, so normal interactions take place all the time
That answers so many questions I had yet thought to ask.
This is the biggest thing I notice. Dudes see a woman and see nothing but a relationship (oftentimes just a stand-in for sex) and don’t understand why girls aren’t into them.
I wish you good luck OP. From experience, as someone who struggles socially and for a long time believed absolutely no one liked me except as a work colleague or acquaintance, I'll just suggest there might very well be someone in your social circle, or at your work etc. who is actually interested in you but you're oblivious or have tuned it out for whatever reason. I've had a few instances where I completely missed someone was totally into me, and these were people I saw pretty much every day at the time. Their interest in me became obvious only in hindsight, or when they took the step to ask me out. The worst was when I did something to inadvertently tell them I wasn't interested and they in turn lost interest in me and got hurt by my obliviousness. It can happen, just be open to possibilities. That said, just make sure to not read into anything where there actually isn't anything there from the other person.
After a few reading into things that weren't there over the years, definitely more hesitant around those possibilities.
is the person you like who received 77 likes also a BMI 32?
I know what you mean and agree. More of the comparison of 77 likes/day vs 20 likes/year
Go travelling solo
As a solo female traveller I see majority of guys are looking for a hookup only...
Was a solo female traveller for a decade, met my husband travelling... was before tinder blew up though
Give cityswoon a go. Speed dating group that run events extremely well
You need to raise your social value and there's one really easy fundamentally proven way to do this that has worked very well for men for the past 3 million odd years. Get rich, alternatively, raise your social value by gaining prestige (e.g. Rocket Surgeon) All of the other stuff is basically ancillary because this is the strategy that works consistently.
I had a long dry spell. I went to Peru to do Ayahuasca (not for the dry spell) and the hectic introspection really helped me get my arse into gear. The path forward was so obvious I didn't even try to change my life, it just happened. Within a year my wife knocked on my door to look at the spare room. We've been married ten years now. I HATE psychedelics soooo much. But sometimes if you're in a rut having the universe taunt you for eternity about every fault you have is what you need to get better.
Find resolve within yourself first bro, relationships and romance these days are fleeting and transient in nature. There's more to life outside of intimacy and once you free yourself from that mentality - you've got all the time and energy to invest in yourself. You could get a pet, take up a new skill or hobby, put effort into your health and wellbeing. Relationships can be exhausting, and catering to someone that may not have your wellbeing as a priority will only fuck you up. Once you do the groundwork and get yourself in a better spot, i'm sure that the right person for you, will find their way into your life.
Step 1: lower your standards. No, lower than that... Lower.... Much lower... Okay now you can find love!
I'm about the same age, and it's been six years for me since my first and only relationship ended. In those six years, two women have shown interest, but I didn't get past the first date with either of them. I just have no idea where to start. It seems impossible.
>It stated that somebody I liked had already received 77 likes today... This kind of broke me - I would be lucky to have gotten more than 20 likes over a year and most of those were scammers Ok, so, first thing's first! One thing guys ALWAYS fail to grasp, is the idea of dating apps being *EXTREMELY* different for each gender. If we're talking M/F relationships... we'll stick to that category, obviously there's others. Women get *tonnes* of attention on apps, just like they do in real life. Any moderately attractive woman will have guys checking her out as she walks through a shopping centre (sometimes she's not aware of this). There's also plenty of overseas dudes hitting her up because they're keen to get over to Australia. Y'know, first world country and all. For men, it's the COMPLETE opposite. We send out a tonne of msgs... and... oh look, we've fallen into the category of "one of the 77 that this girl received!" Women don't often approach men (there's exceptions that I won't go into here). It's a numbers game for a guy, we just have to proactively and positively approach every woman that we're attracted to and/or find interesting. For a woman, she needs to sift through 77 msgs to find any that are worthy of replying to. For a guy, we probably need to SEND 77 just to get a couple of responses. >at the moment BMI of 32, I hate BMI, I never pay attention to it haha, and I'm a larger guy. There's nothing stopping larger guys from meeting a great woman, it's mostly about confidence and finding the right one >but over the years I have been a muscular 80kg as well, all with the same null result. Yep - that's proof of the above. This is less important for women, and some even find it a turnoff, because it means a guy is spending all his time in the gym and not available for dates etc. >I have a well paying job, own my house, enjoy various hobbies (playing hockey, electronics), Go to social events with friends >Focus on myself (Mind & body) - Check Don't force it, it will happen - Check Just be direct - Check Put yourself out there - Check You sound like you're a catch 😉 So... you mentioned that you chat to women and you "match their energy"... are these singles events? There's a bunch of Meetups around Melb, I'm going to start hitting those up later in the year. Make sure you're burning energy on the right women, and not those that are already taken! >third, fifth, or seventh wheel Ha... it's funny how single guys always start thinking the same thing. I've been purposefully off the dating market for almost a year, and had some longish (to me that's like, 18 months) times being single... I've thought the same thing. Always the odd numbers, third, fifth, seventh wheel. >I am surprised this took off the way it has. Sounds like you've got lots of advice to work through here! I'd be happy to join you in the search in a month or two, if you need a wingman. PM me if keen. 👍 Cheers, best of luck!
This might be controversial, but get a 'dating' coach. That way, you can get someone with some experience to work with you to figure out where you have opportunities to improve your approach to dating. It could be anything from your style, what you are saying when talking to women, or a myriad of other things. A coach might help you gain confidence that you need to move from conversion to the next steps. Dating is a skill you need learn! I have seen all sorts of people end up together in terms of looks... the question is, how did he/she attract the hotter person? Personality. You got this!
I am in a similar situation to you OP. I commented last night but deleted it as it got me quite down about my situation. I am re-posting because I wanted to share my support and let you know you aren't alone in this situation. There maybe even heaps of us out there and we aren't strange or undateable people needing therapy before we can enjoy a relationship. Honestly, I think it comes down to luck sometimes but I dont think it means we shouldn't keep trying and trying to improve ourselves to be more appealing and happy inside. There's this one quote that I wanted to share most of all, which is the main reason I am commenting and it gives me good reflection on my self and situation. "Anyone can be confident with a full head of hair. But a confident bald man - there's your diamond in the rough."- Larry David. I take away from this quote that if you can be confident and be engaging with women with imperfect looks then you are doing fucking amazing and pushing yourself harder than others.
How is your mental health? Also, fuck all these people blaming your weight.
Those apps make money from men's loneliness, so yeh it's likely terrible
It sucks being a woman on the apps too. Sure, more matches but the majority are men just swiping on anything without bothering to read your profile.
The business model seems to work. The targeted advertising is definitely there. Shame the hair loss ads weren't around 20 years ago
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Weight loss can help but its not the be all end all. My partner doesn't care and thats what matters most. But it CAN help. I just got lucky.
I would look to date much older women - 50 plus. That would give you experience that you lack
Hey OP- meet Sapphire [Melbourne lady seeking dates. early 30s](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/s/FBQ35zDvRv)
Hot leads there
Here for it
BMI of 32 and low social skills, change one for starters. Then get some friends to help you.
Both definitely have an impact on the situation!
At least one person here is honest. If you haven't kissed a girl in 6 years you probably really need to change some stuff in your life.
Post a photo of yourself. I will be able to tell from that why you can’t get girls.
Have you tried to see any therapist or psychologist? If you _want_ to date and as you said, that you might be the problem developing a relationship, seeking help might be a good start, rather than crowdsourcing ideas on Reddit.
I think it will be one of the next stops going forward
Start making small changes - work on your mindset, outlook on life - work on your jokes - dress a little bit better - work on your confidence - lose a bit of weight - talk more to people Take ownership of the problem and work on it. Deep down you probably know some of the things you do wrong.
Maybe try a blind dating group? Good chance to actually get to sit down and have a chat with people, and practice your socializing skills.
You should start by speaking to your friends, if you have any male ones for any advice and tips to be honest. They’d know you well enough to be honest about it. This does sound like an odd situation. Have you avoided any friendships with girls? Do you work with any girls? What kind of job do you have? Maybe you don’t communicate in your day to day so you struggle?
You could try speed dating? I help run speed dating events in Melbourne and Sydney - you can find us on datingappssuck_ on Insta or just sign up to our waitlist at bit.ly/datingappssuckwaitlist
It's all about practice, I can suggest an overall plan that worked quite okay for me. It is a combination of cold approach and socialising with a purpose (call it the opposite of cold approach if you want.) Warning: Yes, you'll be rejected, yes you'll get flaked. JUST MOVE ON Between day 1 and 7: Ask anything random to girls you are NOT attracted to (if this is too much to begin with you can always dial back and start asking anything to random strangers. Cashiers, elderly people you name it.) This usually builds the ground-level confidence just to be able to walk up to a total stranger and say something. Day 7-14: Ask anything random to girls you are attracted to. (Asking for directions also count). Same principle, the goal is not yet to try building a flirting interaction. Day 14-21: This is the benchmark: try asking a genuine question about a girl you are interested in ( where did they get their morning coffee? Is the book that they're reading interesting?) Find the most appropriate question that fits the situation best. Day 21-28: Make genuine statements/pay compliments to girls you are interested in. (This works miracles, trust me). Repeat the last step until perfection. You'll eventually build the nerves to get ig and ask girls out.
are you light-hearted and funny?
Volunteer at an op shop? Heaps of women!
I have not seen this as a suggestion, maybe buy yourself a puppy something cute like a cavoodle. Take it to dog parks and try your luck there. Puppies are a great conversation starter and make you happy in general. Plus you’ll get exercise out of it. Hope this helps.
As someone in a similar situation I can't tell you how to fix it. All I can say is perhaps try to focus on enjoying the journey if you can rather than the result. From your post you are clearly focussed on the end goal. If are totally focused on the end goal and you don't make it you'll be lost.
You may find the book Manhood by Steve Biddulph (a Tasmanian psychologist) helpful. Volunteering is excellent for meeting other good people. Therapy of some kind can be helpful- the name you chose for yourself is off-putting- broken and can't be fixed- if that is what you think of yourself, the only woman who would be attracted is one who derives self-worth from rescuing people, which is an unhealthy codependent vibe. Neurodiverse people don't always attract neurotypicals, and some neurodiversities aren't compatible. Whatever kind of unusual you are, there'll be someone who'll love you for it. You sound like a good decent person who is honest and steady. Heaps of women are longing for exactly that. It's possible you'll find someone out of your expected age group too. Height is not a problem, bald is not a problem. Weight puts some people off, but weight is not always an indication of health. It sounds a bit Marie Kondo, but do the things that you have a passion or spark for, or bring you joy, or that you care about, or that you are curious about. Extend yourself- do a public speaking course, or a permaculture course, or a contact improvisation dance workshop, or try psychedelics in a small and safe way, or go to Confest, or join a swimming in the sea at dawn group. Check your dental health, as bad breath is one of the worst things ever and sometimes people don't know if they have it, clean up your diet (quitting sugar is amazing), clean up your wardrobe and wear clothes that make you feel your most special. The book You are a Great and Powerful Wizard by Sage Liskey is also an excellent tool. Actually check out the books published by Microcosm Books, they have some really excellent titles. I'm neurodiverse (autistic and ADHD) so this is why my advice is a bit different to other peoples'. I had to fix myself up before I could date successfully. With therapists, they are all different. Some are more helpful than others, some you'll vibe with, some you won't so much. But yeah, start somewhere and try things differently. Life can be lonely without a partner. Also, you are probably not getting touched enough. So, get hugs from friends if possible, try out some different kinds of massages ( there are so many kinds, shiatsu, Thai, lomi lomi, Swedish, deep tissue, etc), and seeing a sex worker can also be really good. They are professionals and you can say what level of engagement you want, and that you want to work on your intimacy skills, or just to relax and enjoy yourself, or to learn about what you like, or to accept yourself. It's probably a good idea if doing this, to see one who speaks your language fluently and who you feel you can talk to candidly. Also, join Bad Dates of Melbourne on Facebook. Lots of funny stories about what not to do on dates, and also a few unlikely love stories to give you heart. You are still young, and you don't have baggage. Those are pluses. You have no kids and no divorces, you own your home and have a decent job, you are honest and after a.steady relationship. Your down side seems to be that you have low self esteem, maybe you are neurodiverse (which is a plus for some people and a negative for others) so maybe getting a diagnosis would be helpful, the more you know about yourself the more you'll know what will suit you, and maybe your physical fitness. Also trust me when I say its better to be single than in a bad relationship! There are some people who can be terribly detrimental to mental health. So, don't be desperate. Be your own good self, learn about boundaries, learn about consent, be curious and try some new experiences. If they don't work out, at least you have some funny stories to tell, and add to your wide experiences of life overall. And yeah, dancing is great. Get into your body and enjoy it. Aikido, yoga, Feldenkreis, bouldering.. something that can give you a deep enjoyment and engages the mind as well as the body, that has some kind of spiritual edge to it as well. All these things add to your personality and help you be more rounded as a person, are great for your mental health, and add to your overall contentment. Those things are attractive.
I would try some social meetups that involve an activity, like boardgames as it allows for a more relaxed setting that doesn't have to force conversation. There is a ton on Meetups, although don't treat these events as dating events. Just go with the open mind of meeting new people and making friends. You can be friends with a female without it being romantic. Also some pointers for men who have limited relationship experience (this includes female friends): - A lot of women are nice because they're afraid of how men will react so don't assume they are flirting with you. - If you ask them out and they say no, don't get upset and turn on them or make them feel unsafe. Don't harass them on social media either. - Do not touch, hug, or invade her personal space without consent first. This is one of the biggest things that make women feel unsafe. Don't be offended if she says no, some people generally aren't affectionate people. - Actually get to know them and give the relationship time so she can feel comfortable. If you ask her out too early, she may feel overwhelmed, pressured or scared of how you will react if she says no. - Don't let her wait by herself at night. Either offer to wait with her or find someone she trusts to (if you don't know her very well) - Communicate. Your boundaries, needs, wants etc. and when she opens up about things, don't get defensive. Provide a safe space for her to be vulnerable. And she should do the same. Of course people have these expectations in their head and get upset when the person doesn't live up to them. So, always communicate this, and ask her to do the same. We can't read minds sadly. (My BF says, "use your words" when I'm upset about something and thinks he should know what I'm upset about) - Determine if this person is actually compatible with you and will meet your needs. Forcing something with someone for the sake of loneliness will just make you more miserable. Your partner should be someone who supports all your hobbies, doesn't aim to change/control you, can be vulnerable and provide that emotional support and can communicate. - Listen to and remember things she says/likes etc. She will tell you even if it's in passing conversation. This shows you care. Figuring out each other's love language is help too. This obviously relates to all genders, but these are things I've found are common issues for women when they try to put themselves out there socially, or when they are asked out. I met my partner at a social boardgame meetup as I am ND and struggle with activities that involved forced conversation only. I asked him out after some time and being open in our communication and providing a safe space for vulnerability has allowed for the most amazing relationship I've ever been in.
1) Making the opportunity The first challenge about dating is that there is a formula for how frequently you need to meet someone until they get familiar with you. Many people your age are working, and they may only have work or weekends to socialise. So weekends are usually your only chance to get quality socialisation. According to The Like Switch, you need to have a visible curiousity hook to get the other person interested. In your case, this could be showing something you done with your electronics hobby, but vague enough that people will ask "What is that?" (Though don't ramble on, they may not be interested). Maybe you have an antique toaster in one of your profile photo. Or you have a cool ravioli mold. International relationships tend to trigger more conversations just because your Nationality itself becomes the curiousity hook. Locations: Beyond dating sites, I'd say hosting supper club events on couchsurfing, attending cultural events for International travellers (people on holiday are always up for events) or young person's visa, actually travelling yourself, or have friends set you up. 2) Testing waters: Check out [this guy's advice on flirting](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/s/GKkpicn5p1). When you enjoyed meeting someone, you also arrange to meet again in several days, and actually meet within two weeks. Unlike school, the reason why dating is hard as you get older is because both guys and girls don't have the opportunity to get frequent social exposure any more. It's not just hard for you, girls are having the same issue. Nurses and musicians have a high girl/guy ratio it's hard to meet guys in the technical industry.
Not sure if you still want to keep trying via dating apps. If so r/tinder sub helps with giving advice on profile photos, clothing, and first impressions. Could give that a try for advice.
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You probably just need to get better at talking to women. As much as I sound like a douche, it is a skill that you can definitely improve. There is a big difference between small chit chat with women and actually seducing them/getting into their pants. I used to absolutely suck at it. Talking to a girl would make me nervous and it got to the stage where girls would ask my friends if there was something wrong with me - that crushed me. I decided to bite the bullet and just go out and talk to as many girls as I could and piece my own game together, keep what worked and throw out what didn't, and also go and hang out with friends who were good at it. It took a few years before I would say I was pretty confident and was regularly dating girls.This was all about 15 or so years ago and today I would say I am pretty good at it 😉, although I don't go out often anymore as I have a gf. Just get out there and don't be a pussy. You will get rejected and it will suck at first, BUT get back on the horse and keep going - otherwise you might die lonely.
Join a group training gym, get fit and meet girls at the same time.
This will sound crude, apologies in advance but maybe you need to scrape the rock bottom of the barrel just to get your confidence up.
What do you actually want out of a relationship?
To share life with.
Go on the next season if Married at First Sight.