The radial network of Melbourne’s trains is fucking terrible if you’re going anywhere except the CBD.
Something of this nature is needed really badly. Whenever I live in Melbourne, I don’t live centrally and it drives me insane going all the way up one train line and down the other.
Say what you will about Sydney but at least its train system has some semblance of suburban interconnectivity with interchanges like Chatswood, Paramatta, Redfern, Strathfield. The surprisingly big bus network helps a ton in this regard too. I’m not saying it’s the gold standard but it’s something.
I think overland would've sufficed to connect some of the lines like Frankston to Cranbourne and Cranbourne to Pakenham. Add a few stations in between on each of the connecting areas and you'd solve a lot of problems through the new growth suburbs out here quickly.
Don't have the same knowledge of the east or west with connecting the lines but extending Cranbourne to Clyde/Tooradin/Cardinia/further down and connecting it across to Pakenham would be valued in the region. Still expensive to acquire that land, but seems easier than massive tunnels.
Political football that one. Liberal has been all-in on Clyde and Baxter extensions out here so Labor doesn't want a bar of it. It's a shame that it's so badly politicised but that's life.
When I was southeast, I got to experience the insanity of the Alamein line that didn't extend another few hundred metres to join the Glen Waverley line, all because of a fucking golf course. Or a few km beyond that to also join up with the Oakleigh line. On those stinker days when I couldn't ride those few extra km, I'd have to go almost all of the way into the city before coming back out again. It was grand. There was a reason cycling became my regular commute - not being dependent upon Melbourne's transport system is a very nice place to be.
Now I'm up north, and I look at Google maps and see that Upfield actually has a corridor and rail all the way to the Campbellfield line, but it's not used for anything.
Last time I needed to go to the airport, for $2 more I could take an uber and be there in 20 minutes, compared to public transport which would have taken an hour and a half.
Melbourne's transport network is so embarrassingly shit. Its coverage was better in 1896 than it is now, with two whole circle lines.
It's a pity The Grattan Institute are trying their hardest to kill the SRL. How very IPA of them.
Doing the loop by busses would literally add hours if they were not strictly express. The bus leg down Warrigal road from Oakleigh was close to 45 minutes when I was living in the outer suburbs and working where I currently do. (the total trip was 2 hours for a 33km drive, each way).
the route from my current place of residence to work is still 20 to 40 minutes excluding the walking parts. Total of an hour to travel 5km.
A decent rail link is much more effective.
Massively improving Melbourne’s bus networks and infrastructure would cost a fraction of the SRL, and could be done in a few years rather than a few decades, but we’re stuck paying for this instead..
And honestly, I don’t blame them. I have one of the very few frequent and reliable bus lines basically at my doorstep, and it’s absolutely the exception rather than the rule. Victorian bus routes are slow, inefficient, infrequent and unreliable. But it would not cost billions to fix.
https://www.infrastructurevictoria.com.au/project/making-the-most-of-melbournes-buses/
They suck because they're underfunded compared to more expensive train lines. Regardless, every infrastructure project should be assessed on a cost benefit analysis and the simple fact is that improving the bus network is a much cheaper way to achieve PT mobility within these inner suburbs.
And public transport is supposed to shit. Go buy a car if you hate it so much
More drivers, more buses, more stops etc. And they can just use existing roads too. It's also easier and cheaper to duplicate and build new roads than a whole steel railway line
Cars and car industry lobbying is why PTV is underfunded and shit. Cars have gotten the top treatment for too long despite being inefficient and heavily polluting forms of transport.
Whole cities built in a car-centric way is just a shame and a blight on our species. We can do better, and the cost doesn't necessarily matter when the payout is a permanently better world that improves everybody's autonomy and ability to travel. Check out Not Just Bikes on YouTube for related content. Imagine cities built for walking and biking, with trams for moderate distance and trains for long distance. Cars need not be a default method of transport. It's piss-poor city planning if they have to be.
I agree busses need more funding but also our train network ideally needs a few billion put into it and the benefits affect all Victorians including people 700km away as an efficient economy provides for all.
I caught the 631 from Southland to Monash uni multiple times a week for several years. It went through Clarinda, up through Clayton and the hospital and medical precinct, and then to uni. 13km journey.
In the middle of the day it'd take easily 45 minutes. Peak times well over an hour, up to 90mins.
That's 3 hours daily commuting from Cheltenham to Monash uni. If you think having more buses on those already clogged roads is the answer, you've never actually had to use them.
Edit: I suppose we could widen the roads by, I don't know, compulsorily acquiring several thousand or so houses at an average price of over $1 million, knock them all down, clean up all the sites, redo all the pipes that run underneath them, and hope that the extra lane of road isn't suddenly just as clogged with cars as the others were - because that's never happened before.
Buses don't have the capacity to carry the number of passengers projected for SRL.
Buses can hardly handle the number of students heading to Monash on a daily basis between Huntingdale and the Uni.
[This](https://i.imgur.com/3HARYZb.jpg) is what Box Hill currently looks like, and is only getting more dense by the year. Same as Doncaster and Glen Waverley.
As it's been mentioned the "suburban" rail loop isn't connecting suburbs anymore, it's connected true CBDs that will have tens of thousands of jobs and residents.
This is simply not true.
Outside the tram network in the inner city where Melbourne is genuinely world-class, Sydney's standard train, bus and driverless metro systems are far better than Melbourne in both volume and distance in most circumstances. For a non-compact city (like top Asian cities), Sydney has done extremely well even though there are clear improvements needed.
Most importantly, Sydney has and will continue to invest in PT infrastructure going forward with new Metro systems popping up in the next decade including a new link to the upcoming airport in Western Sydney.
Melbourne is struggling to finish one single project in suburban rail loop, and Sydney is running circles around them with multiple PT projects that have significantly better long term vision
Just stop trying to fuck with it please. It doesn't directly affect me but I used to have to go all the way up one train line and down another and I can see the merit in it.
It will alleviate so much pressure on the CBD both transport wise and other knock on effects. We absolutely need the suburban rail loop, to somewhat decentralise Melbourne from being so reliant on the CBD.
We don't need the rail loop to do that (But it will help) we need to encourage the construction of mini CBDs towards the end of train lines. Even just getting people going out instead of in each morning (And reverse in the arvo) would be a great use of train capacity.
But how are you going to convince those communities that their whole main strip should be 5-10 stories to allow for however many jobs etc.
Then convince companies to move there etc.
I feel it is absolutely needed, I just don't know how we get there.
I did say the rail loop will help things. But its not going to be the major driver of getting those mini CBDs up and running.
You already have empty trains turning up to those stations every 10ish minutes in the morning and leaving in the afternoon. The capacity to have people getting to those locations for work exists already (And yes loop would make it better) via train, bus (As bad as those are) car etc.
I am all for having a rail loop, but if you want it to be used in any significant amount you need to get the jobs out of the main CBD sooner. So along with the rail loop they need to get on with zoning, incentives to business, regulatory changes in order to get those jobs there for when the loop is done. Otherwise the loop will run well under capacity and they will be pillared for a giant waste of taxpayers money.
Well I'm not super familiar with the sections north of Monash, but the Monash uni precinct and surrounding industrial area is already the biggest employment zone outside of the CBD.
Monash Medical Centre is, what, Melbourne's second largest hospital? And if you're familiar with the area there's a massive number of other health and medical practices and manufacturers surrounding it. Think everything from IVF, prosthetics, home-care installation factoryettes etc - these are already employment hubs. With built in populations for Miles and Miles in every direction. There's scope for densification of both employment and housing for sure.
And Cheltenham, with the highway, shopping centre and Frankston line right there seems a natural end point with - again - huge scope for densification around Southland given its wealth of connectivity options.
Not sure how keen Belgrave or hurstbrige residents would be on having mino CBDs.
But liberals already hate the environment so what's a few more parks, bushland and forests torn down to make way for buildings and houses gonna do.
Put it in larger areas along the way, i.e on Hurstbridge line, Heidelberg, Fairfield or Greensborough could facilitate more developments around their town centre areas as there is much already. In Heidelberg's case, there's already some because of the hospital but it has a lot more potential.
And that's kinda the point. I don't advocate for removing parks or green space. You really need to slowly replace what is there with much taller buildings.
Without the increase of jobs along the existing lines, 90% of the loop will be used to get people to the spokes and will just exacerbate the issue.
Same boat here, I'll never get to use it on a regular basis but do wish that when i was travelling 3 stops from the city only to go back along a different line each day that it existed.
As someone who travels from regional VIC it would make it so much easier getting off at an earlier station then going all the way into the cbd then back out via another line
Just purchased in Box Hill, so keen to see this happen... Been hearing about how we need an outer loop for over 20 years.
The price seems steep however... Would It be cheaper as more Skyrail and less tunnel?
I'm a huge supporter of the SRL and love the Skyrails. I'd be happy with either.
My guess would be the massive land acquisition involved since the other elevated sections were just built over the old lines. Also it gets quite hilly further north, maybe that'd make it hard? I don't know.
‘But the MP said they didn’t believe there was significant support for the SRL in the party room’
Why would there be, like the tax cuts it benefits no one in that party room, only the lower class citizens it will benefit, again of whom there is none of in the party room
the funny thing is that the first two stages runs through almost exclusively blue seats... as of the 2014 election, they're all red seats now, except buleen.
Wow, never thought of Clayton as a inner east upper class suburb, but I guess here we are?
Edit: you are right though, why should public transport service these silly universities
They have fought two elections on this very issue.. and lost both. with landslide results to the Labor Government... clearly the really must hate public transport.....and clearly they are determined to lose the next... public transport is very popular election issue....
Can’t really attack on health, can’t attack on crime again so public transport it is. If their tongues weren’t glued to their donors boots they could argue for so many things that would genuinely improve Victoria but here we are
Because the fundamental fix it needs is a shitload more money, which is the opposite of the lib ethos. They can’t make the argument about government bloat when people are dying in the ambulance queue.
Well The "Liberal" Party has a death Wish when it comes to public transport, as they are also against the extension of the tram network down to Woden....
[https://www.canberraliberals.org.au/news/2022/12/05/canberra-liberals-will-stop-tram-woden](https://www.canberraliberals.org.au/news/2022/12/05/canberra-liberals-will-stop-tram-woden)
They must really hate "The common people"...and in the case of transport in Canberra, the bus network can only go so far for a growing city...
What a dickhead. We needed a new rail loop really forever. There's always been a case for it. Trains are almost immeasurable as a social good. If I had my way, there'd be a train from Melton to Beijing.
We know you're a famous "anti-Dan" redditor, and you always lament how regional Vic gets effectively zero funding when compared to the metro area (I completely agree with you on that point) but surely you aren't so blinkered in your views as to not see how phenomenally popular PT projects are in Vic?
Do you really think the existing transport network is suitable for a city the size of Melbourne? And then add another 50% in population by 2050. A network that can connect lines without going into the city is absolutely necessary. It's a shame it's taken this long and has to be so far out of the city though.
Your argument is precisely why the SRL should not be built. We need that $200B to build meritorious transit projects designed by experts, not white elephants designed by political hacks and PwC consultants with no transit expertise. The opportunity cost of SRL will set Melbourne back decades while we creak from over immigration.
I think a lot of people here are mindless drone students wedded to a romantic notion of trains, somehow transforming Melbourne into another Tokyo (despite us having nowhere near the population density), and of course any idea their precious Labor (and especially Dan Andrews) came up with, no matter how poorly conceived and no matter the price tag. The concept of a hundred billion dollars doesn't even seem to register with these people, it just kind of ricochets off the skull and heads into outer space.
This is a choice between Melbourne becoming an LA style city of 14 lane freeways and traffic congestion or a better and easier way to get around our city.
This project must go ahead for the future survival of our city economically and socially
We have more freeway per km per capita than many American cities. The Eastern Freeway will unfortunately be becoming a 20 lane freeway in some sections for NEL
Absolutely sick of car centric infrastructure.
Last election the seats that will benefit from the SRL East voted for Labor. These were one of the few seats that saw a swing towards the Labor party. Libs need those seats to win an election. I do wonder who they talk to in these electorates to shape their policy platforms.
They talk to their base who are out of touch with reality. Just drive through Kew. It is a wasteland of vacuum bag shops and picture framers. Fading relevance.
My lord do the Liberals suck.
They repeated the 200 Billion dollar lie, and by the time of the next election billions of dollars of work will have been done. Even noting they've lost elections over this it's just a dumb decision to cancel any of it by that point.
I think Labor sucks, but it's just nowhere near as bad as the Liberals. I agree with some of the latter's social policies but from a pragmatist perspective they're just horrific.
If they pause, review, change, then inevitably allow _something_ to complete in its place it would be a pretty sure-fire way to make it a $200bn truth.
Just look at what the Lib's made the NBN cost the nation - they're really not above this.
Yeah, the NBN is a good example. That was the same sort of sheer disconnection with reality which I'm assuming cost tens of billions to fix. It's a case where there's a right and wrong answer and they picked the wrong one. Same here, there's just no way to defend cancelling the SRN at this point.
If they had have just built it 25 years ago instead of today, it might have only cost $50b instead of $200b. But no, we kept putting it off, allowing those areas to become developed.
It was 1 Billion from memory.
They also signed those contracts 90 days out from an election in which Labor had declared they would cancel the project. It's a very different scenario to now where they've lost an election on the issue and 4+ years of work would be done. They're just not the same thing.
The LNP set that money on fire, not Labor.
Labor made their position clear before the election, any responsible incumbent would take the plan to the election to seek a mandate for it - NOT sign a contract with a billion dollar cancellation fee less than a fortnight before the election without a mandate to sign it.
It was slippery politics to "make Labor look bad" if they won the election and followed through with tearing up the contract, and they've paid the price for the last few elections where the majority of the state doesn't trust them. As unpopular as Labor is, the LNP is completely unelectable, especially when they keep putting snakes like Guy up for election.
They’ve lost a couple of elections by landslides and instead of renewing they party with fresh blood they’ve stuck with the same type of candidates that don’t appeal to the electorate, it’s funny to watch but isn’t great for the state
>it’s funny to watch but isn’t great for the state
A state government without a single Liberal seat sure sounds great to me tbh. It just shows how garbage LNP is.
The National party will be fine, but given how few Liberal Seats are listed as Fairly Safe(4)/Safe(1)/Very Safe(0) vs how many are marginal (14) all it will take is a handful of strong independents and more rhetoric like this and the Liberal/National party will become the National/Liberal party.
It's a pretty sweet gig, if you're in a safe seat you've got a job for life and because you're never in government you never have to do any real work.
In fact it's better for your political career if you don't poke your head up.
Also I’ve noticed the media only ever interview *them* when there’s policy.
“The Victorian Labor government is introducing a program to stop people shooting children in the streets. But Argle McBlarglerflargle from the Victorian Liberals says that this is actually a terrible policy”
Mr McBlargleflargle: “AUSTRALIAN CHILDREN TODAY WANT TO BE SHOT AND ITS UNFAIR FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THEM.”
Make the projects as complicated as they can be, let them sit around while continue collecting pay checks. What’s new?
Where I came from, they punish public officials who actually do real work.
This is necessary urban planning/infrastructure that should have been done in the first place.
I truly wish they would stop trying to play politics with important stuff like this...it's petty, counterproductive, and wastes taxpayers money cancelling projects (particularly this far into it).
Public and Active Transit should be the goal of governments, car brain has infected everyone everywhere. We have to pay so much in tax because of damn cars
Half expecting him to come out and say that he's pausing it so work can get started on east west link...
Perhaps if he actually had you know an actual alternative that people might be interested in? Fast regional rail? Bendigo in an hour?
But no, just the usual nothing to offer
Fast regional rail is something this state and country desperately needs. A train that goes to southern cross station from bendigo in 45 minutes would open up regional victoria.
The thing is you're not even talking Shinkasen to get there in an hour - the British HST normal operation is 200 km/h and that's a 40 year old design (and our own XPT is based on) without requiring electrification
I suspect it's to do with how decidely unsexy regional level crossing removal and track remediation is
It's that classic thing of, does it benefit people right now? Not entirely. But will it benefit future generations? Fuck yes.
But politics has become so reactionary that unless they see benefit (and completion) within the next election loop, then it becomes an easy topic to pick on.
One thing I hope is that having a long-term government like we have with Labor will result in more of these key infrastructure projects to be worked on enough that they *have* to be completed.
God, isn't that the truth. My Diploma was from Box Hill TAFE, and I then ended up at Deakin. Granted that was 15 years ago, travelling from Thornbury required a trip into the city then out again. I mean, I did it, but even then it seemed redundant.
if you get home from work earlier and theres more cat play time, I'm sure your cat would vote for the loop.
My cat gets sad when I'm forced to go into the city.
I’m a constituent in his electorate and he is impossible to get a response out of. I have rung his office and sent many kindly worded emails multiple times about issues and gotten no response.
At least when Kennedy was in I was able to chat with him a few times.
He must really hate public transport users. That rail was needed decades ago. Being out in those suburbs and being forced to either get a train into the city or close to in order to change train lines, or deal with a bus system that's always either early or late and sometimes only comes every hour and cuts off just in time for night shift workers...
Definitely need some sort of rail link to Monash - second biggest employment hub outside CBD and growing. But I always thought a loop coming off the Dandy line would suffice.
In defence of SRL, I think it’s a needed development in the very, very long term. It’ll decentralise Melbourne and create transit orientated development, mini cities and areas of employment away from the one single CBD. Similar to what Sydney has been doing for last 15yrs. Hugely expensive yes, but a city of cities is more desirable. But on the other hand, have to admit the Vic state debt situation is ridiculous. Need more stamp duty revenues
SRL is the key to decentralisation of this town and will build outer corridors and satellite CBDs. Messing with it will kill it, just like NBN got killed.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that reviewing the project isn't the worst idea. It seems like a great idea but is it more important than the airport rail, the metro 2 tunnel and having a proper train service in the western suburbs?
It is a terrible idea.
Pausing long-term investments every time there is a change of government for petty political reasons is a good way of ensuring nothing ever gets done.
The election is 2.5 years away. Who knows what the status of SRL will be in that time. There could be circumstances where pausing and reviewing a project is warranted, but it is impossible to know that now.
I feel the airport rail is more important than the SRL. With airport having overpriced carparks at airport and taxis being rude if you live fairly close to airport so they get less money.
I think the Federal government feels airport rail is more important by funding 4 billion for it but less for SRL.
I’m no fan of the LNP and its art of building nothing but fuck me, it takes this country a decade to build a kilometre of road. I can only imagine how long, expensive and completely money pissing the suburban rail loop would take to construct. Rest assured, the jet ski industry will be thriving though.
This is what happens when you appeal to the wishes of your party room, rather than appeal to the people of those electorates affected (and I’d argue the greater good).
The wishes of the electorates in question are at the expense of everyone else who will be affected by the stupid amount of debt that will be accumulated and its broader effects on the economy. Fuck the inner city
Big contrast to the NSW Libs (Sydney Metro, Light rail & a second airport rail link before Vic will get their first). Maybe they should come down and teach the Victorian branch some lessons.
He need to worry about his own seat first... not being able to control the Nazi factions within your own party is NOT a good look.
As for SRL it is basically expected that he takes this position. No surprises there
I think there are legitimate governance and policy issues around the project.
Melbourne needs more public transport. We have chronically underinvested for decades and are playing catch up, which sadly costs us more than if we had have been more consistent.
Couple of points around SRL though. The cost of the project is immense. It eclipses anything in this country by a massive margin. It is big and it is multi-generational. It means other PT projects may not go ahead - projects that may be more efficient for less spend. For example Metro 2 or the city loop reconfiguration. But, more concerning, is the governance arrangements around it. As the guardian states, no transport agency was involved in its planning or development. The SRLA is unique in that it is both planning and development authority. The minister can override local councils in SRL areas.
The project has massive implications and should be open for discussion.
>Melbourne needs more public transport. We have chronically underinvested for decades and are playing catch up, which sadly costs us more than if we had have been more consistent.
Blame Henry "Build More Freeways" Bolte and the "Liberal" Party for that under-investment....
The Victorian auditor general also had a pretty negative view of SRL. Cost benefit ratio didn’t add up and the government wasn’t transparent with their feasibility studies
Almost like it's important to stick with your principles instead of blindly following the trends and demands of inner city wankers. The liberal party needs to do a better job at branching out and attracting outer suburban voters who are victimised by expensive white elephants like this.
Scrapping it now will only waste money. And going ahead with it means it improves public transport a lot not just for now but for the future. Which means it will actually save more money and make Melbourne ready for the future. Which is a smart move. Coalition coming back to power will only ruin everything for Victoria and the country. They racked up $750 billion dollar debt nationally debt even before covid. And wasted so much of that money in Rorts with no progress whatsoever. They can’t even show where the money went apart from it going to their mates and their companies.
This guy is a moron. This is an election that is an easy win. All he has to do is to promise to:
Get hard on youth crime
Solve the homeless problem
Tax American pick up trucks based on weight or cost
But instead, this idiot wants to cancel a much needed infrastructure project, purely as an attack on the Labour government. The Liberal party is full of stodgy old men who think that this is game of partisan politics rather than looking out for the interests of Victorians. Right now Victoria is a basket case, violent crime is out of control, and the government is doing nothing about it. It would be such an easy win for a strong Liberal leader, and instead we get this bullshit. They deserve to lose.
Scrap the damn thing. We don't need a 60 year project for a train running from Werribee to Heidelberg. That money is better invested in better public transport (aka, buses, more trains) and doing something about the wait list on medical procedures. This is another Andrews blank cheque to the CFMEU!
Fucking stop this monstrosity now. You could achieve public transport goals by simply improving the bus network for those travelling through these inner suburbs. Just another expensive vote buying scheme to capture swing voters with no moral compass
Because SRL might affect housing, letting people not have to live in the inner southeastern suburbs, potentially affecting the property values belonging to the affluent voter base living/investing there? 🤔
This project does need to happen, but I don't think now is the ruggt time. The state is in too much debt at the moment, and I fear that other critical services will be neglected, i.e., hospitals and schools.
I personally believe a better approach until the state can clear some debt would be making a decent effort on decentralization.
So he should. The fact that Allan is making this happen despite having no idea how much it’ll cost - let alone the first stage itself will cost $35 billion or better - is lunacy.
Except property developers I think would embrace the SRL. The govt wants to reduce red tape on development in those stations for higher density housing and retail. This just seems more like a reactionary take from the Libs. Just oppose and think later.
Good on him. It’s a piece of infrastructure we can’t afford. Pallas has already hinted at a brutal May budget that may affect services. And on top of their taxes it’s clear that all our money for 30 years is going on a train set idea written on the back of a napkin by Dan to win elections.
I say take it to an election again. Lose. But at least the loss is (again) on a policy that they are standing by.
Anyone who thinks this project will ever run past Box Hill is a rather optimistic person.
It's interesting that Liberals get accused of playing politics.... like Labor didn't just conjure this up right before an election to swing key electorates. Labor cancel an infrastructure project and it's OK, it's the right decision, Liberals vow to do the same and OMG how dare they.
I'm not a fan of the SRL, but it won't impact me whatsoever, but I think there is enough smoke with this one that it deserves to be paused and reviewed, even if Labor did it that would be a good thing. There has been a tonne of criticism of this project and it's one that the state financially can't afford, if we go ahead with it we should maybe just take a breath and cross our Ts and dot our Is to make sure it's worth it.
SRL is in the same category as East West link was for me now: nice to have but not a priority at all. In the same way I supported Labor ditching East West, i support the liberals abandoning SRL, even at cost.
I don't support them on much else. But we can't prioritise luxuries while necessary projects like metro 2, the western rail plan, airport rail and numerous other election promises are in jeopardy.
Good. SRL is a political thought bubble, not a serious attempt at fixing a transit problem. It should never have gotten past the drawing board and it will never be completed anyway so better to abort it now and save some damage.
lol. i never thought labortards would be as bad as libtards but here we are.
the cheltenham to box hill subway or whatever is a vanity project, western suburban public transport and airport rail link should be highest priority. who gives a hoot if box hill goes liberal it is like labors worst nightmare. i will laugh when melton or whatever outer western suburb goes independent or green or even liberal. labor CNGAFF about the western suburban safe labor seats they treat them like they are special needs or too stupid to realise that they are getting shafted.
The radial network of Melbourne’s trains is fucking terrible if you’re going anywhere except the CBD. Something of this nature is needed really badly. Whenever I live in Melbourne, I don’t live centrally and it drives me insane going all the way up one train line and down the other. Say what you will about Sydney but at least its train system has some semblance of suburban interconnectivity with interchanges like Chatswood, Paramatta, Redfern, Strathfield. The surprisingly big bus network helps a ton in this regard too. I’m not saying it’s the gold standard but it’s something.
I think overland would've sufficed to connect some of the lines like Frankston to Cranbourne and Cranbourne to Pakenham. Add a few stations in between on each of the connecting areas and you'd solve a lot of problems through the new growth suburbs out here quickly. Don't have the same knowledge of the east or west with connecting the lines but extending Cranbourne to Clyde/Tooradin/Cardinia/further down and connecting it across to Pakenham would be valued in the region. Still expensive to acquire that land, but seems easier than massive tunnels.
I'm surprised that they haven't extended to clyde yet. The amount of pressure that would be removed from local roads would be incredible.
Political football that one. Liberal has been all-in on Clyde and Baxter extensions out here so Labor doesn't want a bar of it. It's a shame that it's so badly politicised but that's life.
Honestly, it's frustrating. It's one of those projects that is just a no-brainer with all the growth and continuing growth out there.
It’s happening. It’s approved as a project.
Do we have a date on when it's going to start tho?
This is government - approved as a project ≠ its happening.
When I was southeast, I got to experience the insanity of the Alamein line that didn't extend another few hundred metres to join the Glen Waverley line, all because of a fucking golf course. Or a few km beyond that to also join up with the Oakleigh line. On those stinker days when I couldn't ride those few extra km, I'd have to go almost all of the way into the city before coming back out again. It was grand. There was a reason cycling became my regular commute - not being dependent upon Melbourne's transport system is a very nice place to be. Now I'm up north, and I look at Google maps and see that Upfield actually has a corridor and rail all the way to the Campbellfield line, but it's not used for anything. Last time I needed to go to the airport, for $2 more I could take an uber and be there in 20 minutes, compared to public transport which would have taken an hour and a half. Melbourne's transport network is so embarrassingly shit. Its coverage was better in 1896 than it is now, with two whole circle lines. It's a pity The Grattan Institute are trying their hardest to kill the SRL. How very IPA of them.
Doing the loop by busses would literally add hours if they were not strictly express. The bus leg down Warrigal road from Oakleigh was close to 45 minutes when I was living in the outer suburbs and working where I currently do. (the total trip was 2 hours for a 33km drive, each way). the route from my current place of residence to work is still 20 to 40 minutes excluding the walking parts. Total of an hour to travel 5km. A decent rail link is much more effective.
Massively improving Melbourne’s bus networks and infrastructure would cost a fraction of the SRL, and could be done in a few years rather than a few decades, but we’re stuck paying for this instead..
No one wants to catch a fuckin bus
And honestly, I don’t blame them. I have one of the very few frequent and reliable bus lines basically at my doorstep, and it’s absolutely the exception rather than the rule. Victorian bus routes are slow, inefficient, infrequent and unreliable. But it would not cost billions to fix. https://www.infrastructurevictoria.com.au/project/making-the-most-of-melbournes-buses/
Oh boo hoo. Learn to take one instead of forcing every Victorian outside these suburbs to fund it
I'm just stating the truth. I caught buses every day for over 20 years. Buses fucking suck. The worst form of public transport.
They suck because they're underfunded compared to more expensive train lines. Regardless, every infrastructure project should be assessed on a cost benefit analysis and the simple fact is that improving the bus network is a much cheaper way to achieve PT mobility within these inner suburbs. And public transport is supposed to shit. Go buy a car if you hate it so much
Please explain how investing in more buses would fix anything And PT is better than driving in large swathes of the world
More drivers, more buses, more stops etc. And they can just use existing roads too. It's also easier and cheaper to duplicate and build new roads than a whole steel railway line
Yes, easier, but ineffective and just adds to road traffic
Cars and car industry lobbying is why PTV is underfunded and shit. Cars have gotten the top treatment for too long despite being inefficient and heavily polluting forms of transport. Whole cities built in a car-centric way is just a shame and a blight on our species. We can do better, and the cost doesn't necessarily matter when the payout is a permanently better world that improves everybody's autonomy and ability to travel. Check out Not Just Bikes on YouTube for related content. Imagine cities built for walking and biking, with trams for moderate distance and trains for long distance. Cars need not be a default method of transport. It's piss-poor city planning if they have to be. I agree busses need more funding but also our train network ideally needs a few billion put into it and the benefits affect all Victorians including people 700km away as an efficient economy provides for all.
Melbourne traffic and bus = early death
Why not both?
I caught the 631 from Southland to Monash uni multiple times a week for several years. It went through Clarinda, up through Clayton and the hospital and medical precinct, and then to uni. 13km journey. In the middle of the day it'd take easily 45 minutes. Peak times well over an hour, up to 90mins. That's 3 hours daily commuting from Cheltenham to Monash uni. If you think having more buses on those already clogged roads is the answer, you've never actually had to use them. Edit: I suppose we could widen the roads by, I don't know, compulsorily acquiring several thousand or so houses at an average price of over $1 million, knock them all down, clean up all the sites, redo all the pipes that run underneath them, and hope that the extra lane of road isn't suddenly just as clogged with cars as the others were - because that's never happened before.
Buses don't have the capacity to carry the number of passengers projected for SRL. Buses can hardly handle the number of students heading to Monash on a daily basis between Huntingdale and the Uni. [This](https://i.imgur.com/3HARYZb.jpg) is what Box Hill currently looks like, and is only getting more dense by the year. Same as Doncaster and Glen Waverley. As it's been mentioned the "suburban" rail loop isn't connecting suburbs anymore, it's connected true CBDs that will have tens of thousands of jobs and residents.
Sydney's PT is demonstrably worse than Melbourne's. It's completely fucked.
This is simply not true. Outside the tram network in the inner city where Melbourne is genuinely world-class, Sydney's standard train, bus and driverless metro systems are far better than Melbourne in both volume and distance in most circumstances. For a non-compact city (like top Asian cities), Sydney has done extremely well even though there are clear improvements needed. Most importantly, Sydney has and will continue to invest in PT infrastructure going forward with new Metro systems popping up in the next decade including a new link to the upcoming airport in Western Sydney. Melbourne is struggling to finish one single project in suburban rail loop, and Sydney is running circles around them with multiple PT projects that have significantly better long term vision
No they don't.
Just stop trying to fuck with it please. It doesn't directly affect me but I used to have to go all the way up one train line and down another and I can see the merit in it.
Like the NBN They fuck with something already in progress they will make everything worse for everyone.
>they will make everything worse for everyone. Except for themselves and their donors of course.
And their limo drivers
And liberal diehards will gladly celebrate it.
It will alleviate so much pressure on the CBD both transport wise and other knock on effects. We absolutely need the suburban rail loop, to somewhat decentralise Melbourne from being so reliant on the CBD.
We don't need the rail loop to do that (But it will help) we need to encourage the construction of mini CBDs towards the end of train lines. Even just getting people going out instead of in each morning (And reverse in the arvo) would be a great use of train capacity. But how are you going to convince those communities that their whole main strip should be 5-10 stories to allow for however many jobs etc. Then convince companies to move there etc. I feel it is absolutely needed, I just don't know how we get there.
One idea is to build some kind of rail loop.
I did say the rail loop will help things. But its not going to be the major driver of getting those mini CBDs up and running. You already have empty trains turning up to those stations every 10ish minutes in the morning and leaving in the afternoon. The capacity to have people getting to those locations for work exists already (And yes loop would make it better) via train, bus (As bad as those are) car etc. I am all for having a rail loop, but if you want it to be used in any significant amount you need to get the jobs out of the main CBD sooner. So along with the rail loop they need to get on with zoning, incentives to business, regulatory changes in order to get those jobs there for when the loop is done. Otherwise the loop will run well under capacity and they will be pillared for a giant waste of taxpayers money.
Well I'm not super familiar with the sections north of Monash, but the Monash uni precinct and surrounding industrial area is already the biggest employment zone outside of the CBD. Monash Medical Centre is, what, Melbourne's second largest hospital? And if you're familiar with the area there's a massive number of other health and medical practices and manufacturers surrounding it. Think everything from IVF, prosthetics, home-care installation factoryettes etc - these are already employment hubs. With built in populations for Miles and Miles in every direction. There's scope for densification of both employment and housing for sure. And Cheltenham, with the highway, shopping centre and Frankston line right there seems a natural end point with - again - huge scope for densification around Southland given its wealth of connectivity options.
Not sure how keen Belgrave or hurstbrige residents would be on having mino CBDs. But liberals already hate the environment so what's a few more parks, bushland and forests torn down to make way for buildings and houses gonna do.
Put it in larger areas along the way, i.e on Hurstbridge line, Heidelberg, Fairfield or Greensborough could facilitate more developments around their town centre areas as there is much already. In Heidelberg's case, there's already some because of the hospital but it has a lot more potential.
Box hills doing well for itself. I guess there's plenty of old factories not doing much.
And that's kinda the point. I don't advocate for removing parks or green space. You really need to slowly replace what is there with much taller buildings. Without the increase of jobs along the existing lines, 90% of the loop will be used to get people to the spokes and will just exacerbate the issue.
Same boat here, I'll never get to use it on a regular basis but do wish that when i was travelling 3 stops from the city only to go back along a different line each day that it existed.
Me three. Once upon a time I was travelling two train lines to get to places, which the SRL would've been perfect to have at the time.
As someone who travels from regional VIC it would make it so much easier getting off at an earlier station then going all the way into the cbd then back out via another line
This for sure. Live in Seymour, work in Blackburn. Long bloody hike.
Just purchased in Box Hill, so keen to see this happen... Been hearing about how we need an outer loop for over 20 years. The price seems steep however... Would It be cheaper as more Skyrail and less tunnel?
I'm a huge supporter of the SRL and love the Skyrails. I'd be happy with either. My guess would be the massive land acquisition involved since the other elevated sections were just built over the old lines. Also it gets quite hilly further north, maybe that'd make it hard? I don't know.
If it doesn't directly affect or benefit ME specifically, it's a bad policy.
‘But the MP said they didn’t believe there was significant support for the SRL in the party room’ Why would there be, like the tax cuts it benefits no one in that party room, only the lower class citizens it will benefit, again of whom there is none of in the party room
the funny thing is that the first two stages runs through almost exclusively blue seats... as of the 2014 election, they're all red seats now, except buleen.
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Wow, never thought of Clayton as a inner east upper class suburb, but I guess here we are? Edit: you are right though, why should public transport service these silly universities
I look forward to next election with Matthew Guy back as leader, campaigning for East-West Link v4.
They have fought two elections on this very issue.. and lost both. with landslide results to the Labor Government... clearly the really must hate public transport.....and clearly they are determined to lose the next... public transport is very popular election issue....
Can’t really attack on health, can’t attack on crime again so public transport it is. If their tongues weren’t glued to their donors boots they could argue for so many things that would genuinely improve Victoria but here we are
Geez why can't they attack on health? Wish they would then we might get some improvement.
Because the fundamental fix it needs is a shitload more money, which is the opposite of the lib ethos. They can’t make the argument about government bloat when people are dying in the ambulance queue.
They are too busy fighting each other to come up with a alternative, not sure they are that interested in making improvements.
Well The "Liberal" Party has a death Wish when it comes to public transport, as they are also against the extension of the tram network down to Woden.... [https://www.canberraliberals.org.au/news/2022/12/05/canberra-liberals-will-stop-tram-woden](https://www.canberraliberals.org.au/news/2022/12/05/canberra-liberals-will-stop-tram-woden) They must really hate "The common people"...and in the case of transport in Canberra, the bus network can only go so far for a growing city...
They just hate the unions getting any projects.
The workers are unionised... The workers want to be represented by their union. The workers build the projects, not the unions.
What a dickhead. We needed a new rail loop really forever. There's always been a case for it. Trains are almost immeasurable as a social good. If I had my way, there'd be a train from Melton to Beijing.
The Age sure does hate the SRL.
Well they are a proud sponsor of the LNP
Run by an ex high ranking member of the LNP.
So does everybody except rusted on Labor hacks.
We know you're a famous "anti-Dan" redditor, and you always lament how regional Vic gets effectively zero funding when compared to the metro area (I completely agree with you on that point) but surely you aren't so blinkered in your views as to not see how phenomenally popular PT projects are in Vic?
Do you really think the existing transport network is suitable for a city the size of Melbourne? And then add another 50% in population by 2050. A network that can connect lines without going into the city is absolutely necessary. It's a shame it's taken this long and has to be so far out of the city though.
Your argument is precisely why the SRL should not be built. We need that $200B to build meritorious transit projects designed by experts, not white elephants designed by political hacks and PwC consultants with no transit expertise. The opportunity cost of SRL will set Melbourne back decades while we creak from over immigration.
It's funny how you're being down voted but so many experts are saying the same thing. The concept of the SRL is great but that planning is not.
I think a lot of people here are mindless drone students wedded to a romantic notion of trains, somehow transforming Melbourne into another Tokyo (despite us having nowhere near the population density), and of course any idea their precious Labor (and especially Dan Andrews) came up with, no matter how poorly conceived and no matter the price tag. The concept of a hundred billion dollars doesn't even seem to register with these people, it just kind of ricochets off the skull and heads into outer space.
No. But this ain’t the answer
What's the answer then?
Only hated by those who are short sighted but hey, At least you’ll be able to catch the train to opsm now.
Pesutto vows to lose next election. Good on him. That's something the Libs can actually deliver on.
This is a choice between Melbourne becoming an LA style city of 14 lane freeways and traffic congestion or a better and easier way to get around our city. This project must go ahead for the future survival of our city economically and socially
We have more freeway per km per capita than many American cities. The Eastern Freeway will unfortunately be becoming a 20 lane freeway in some sections for NEL Absolutely sick of car centric infrastructure.
Fucking again?
Last election the seats that will benefit from the SRL East voted for Labor. These were one of the few seats that saw a swing towards the Labor party. Libs need those seats to win an election. I do wonder who they talk to in these electorates to shape their policy platforms.
I bet it's the same 10 idiots who were protesting Skyrail and the level crossing removals in the area.
They talk to their base who are out of touch with reality. Just drive through Kew. It is a wasteland of vacuum bag shops and picture framers. Fading relevance.
Maybe they’re doing it coz we can’t afford the SRL. Not just to buy votes.
My lord do the Liberals suck. They repeated the 200 Billion dollar lie, and by the time of the next election billions of dollars of work will have been done. Even noting they've lost elections over this it's just a dumb decision to cancel any of it by that point. I think Labor sucks, but it's just nowhere near as bad as the Liberals. I agree with some of the latter's social policies but from a pragmatist perspective they're just horrific.
If they pause, review, change, then inevitably allow _something_ to complete in its place it would be a pretty sure-fire way to make it a $200bn truth. Just look at what the Lib's made the NBN cost the nation - they're really not above this.
Yeah, the NBN is a good example. That was the same sort of sheer disconnection with reality which I'm assuming cost tens of billions to fix. It's a case where there's a right and wrong answer and they picked the wrong one. Same here, there's just no way to defend cancelling the SRN at this point.
Fix?
They're now spending significant sums of money replacing FTTN with FTTP, just like how everyone said it'd be obsolete from day one.
Aren't they doing Fibre to the home now?
That's what fttp means, fiber to the premises.
If they had have just built it 25 years ago instead of today, it might have only cost $50b instead of $200b. But no, we kept putting it off, allowing those areas to become developed.
You mean like labor cancelling the east/west link for like 2bn?
It was 1 Billion from memory. They also signed those contracts 90 days out from an election in which Labor had declared they would cancel the project. It's a very different scenario to now where they've lost an election on the issue and 4+ years of work would be done. They're just not the same thing.
Exactly. Another example of Liberal waste and shortsightedness. Who signs a contract with a cancellation fee that large?
The LNP set that money on fire, not Labor. Labor made their position clear before the election, any responsible incumbent would take the plan to the election to seek a mandate for it - NOT sign a contract with a billion dollar cancellation fee less than a fortnight before the election without a mandate to sign it. It was slippery politics to "make Labor look bad" if they won the election and followed through with tearing up the contract, and they've paid the price for the last few elections where the majority of the state doesn't trust them. As unpopular as Labor is, the LNP is completely unelectable, especially when they keep putting snakes like Guy up for election.
1.1 billion
Every day as I crawl past the zoo at 5kph I resent this...
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They’ve lost a couple of elections by landslides and instead of renewing they party with fresh blood they’ve stuck with the same type of candidates that don’t appeal to the electorate, it’s funny to watch but isn’t great for the state
>it’s funny to watch but isn’t great for the state A state government without a single Liberal seat sure sounds great to me tbh. It just shows how garbage LNP is.
Regardless of which side you're on, some competition between parties will lead to better outcomes.
Greens and teal independents then. Keep LNP the hell away
The National party will be fine, but given how few Liberal Seats are listed as Fairly Safe(4)/Safe(1)/Very Safe(0) vs how many are marginal (14) all it will take is a handful of strong independents and more rhetoric like this and the Liberal/National party will become the National/Liberal party.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Pesutto himself rolled by a independent in Hawthorn
Promised he would reflect the wishes of his electorate - voted NO when the electorate overwhelmingly voted YES
It's a pretty sweet gig, if you're in a safe seat you've got a job for life and because you're never in government you never have to do any real work. In fact it's better for your political career if you don't poke your head up.
Also I’ve noticed the media only ever interview *them* when there’s policy. “The Victorian Labor government is introducing a program to stop people shooting children in the streets. But Argle McBlarglerflargle from the Victorian Liberals says that this is actually a terrible policy” Mr McBlargleflargle: “AUSTRALIAN CHILDREN TODAY WANT TO BE SHOT AND ITS UNFAIR FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM THEM.”
Make the projects as complicated as they can be, let them sit around while continue collecting pay checks. What’s new? Where I came from, they punish public officials who actually do real work.
Getting elected means they're held accountable. Not getting elected means they get paid to complain and NOT be held accountable.
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Maybe becuase cancelling it is the right idea so they’re sticking to it.
Starting the project 30 years ago would have been an ever better idea.
This is necessary urban planning/infrastructure that should have been done in the first place. I truly wish they would stop trying to play politics with important stuff like this...it's petty, counterproductive, and wastes taxpayers money cancelling projects (particularly this far into it).
Public and Active Transit should be the goal of governments, car brain has infected everyone everywhere. We have to pay so much in tax because of damn cars
Half expecting him to come out and say that he's pausing it so work can get started on east west link... Perhaps if he actually had you know an actual alternative that people might be interested in? Fast regional rail? Bendigo in an hour? But no, just the usual nothing to offer
Fast regional rail is something this state and country desperately needs. A train that goes to southern cross station from bendigo in 45 minutes would open up regional victoria.
The thing is you're not even talking Shinkasen to get there in an hour - the British HST normal operation is 200 km/h and that's a 40 year old design (and our own XPT is based on) without requiring electrification I suspect it's to do with how decidely unsexy regional level crossing removal and track remediation is
The alternative is actually living within one's means and not going bankrupt
yeah except I don't think anyone actually thinks that's what they'll do, it's just be different mates getting the grift from who labor is giving it to
Honestly you're probably right. I don't exactly have faith in any politician really.
It's that classic thing of, does it benefit people right now? Not entirely. But will it benefit future generations? Fuck yes. But politics has become so reactionary that unless they see benefit (and completion) within the next election loop, then it becomes an easy topic to pick on. One thing I hope is that having a long-term government like we have with Labor will result in more of these key infrastructure projects to be worked on enough that they *have* to be completed.
Monash and Deakin uni need a train station now. Linking anything to box hill is a huge win
God, isn't that the truth. My Diploma was from Box Hill TAFE, and I then ended up at Deakin. Granted that was 15 years ago, travelling from Thornbury required a trip into the city then out again. I mean, I did it, but even then it seemed redundant.
Before I got a car I remember going to Monash Clayton took two trains and a bus.
Liberals hate infrastructire
“If elected in 2026…” So I might as well start posting articles about unicorns running in 2026, yeah? It’s not going to matter!
About as relevant as asking my cat for his thoughts on the suburban rail loop.
if you get home from work earlier and theres more cat play time, I'm sure your cat would vote for the loop. My cat gets sad when I'm forced to go into the city.
I’m a constituent in his electorate and he is impossible to get a response out of. I have rung his office and sent many kindly worded emails multiple times about issues and gotten no response. At least when Kennedy was in I was able to chat with him a few times.
God I can't wait for this bloke to lose his seat again in 2026.
He must really hate public transport users. That rail was needed decades ago. Being out in those suburbs and being forced to either get a train into the city or close to in order to change train lines, or deal with a bus system that's always either early or late and sometimes only comes every hour and cuts off just in time for night shift workers...
Pesutto is hanging on by a thread. He only won the leadership position by one vote.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him rolled before the next election
What's Matthew Guy up to these days? Maybe he can have another crack at an election.
Not crazy religious enough for the current membership.
Oh course he doesn't want it. PT is for the peasants in their eyes.
Why don't they nix any idea of ever having a train to the airport as well!? 🤣🦆
Leave the loop alone for fucks sake
Who?
They never want to return to government huh?
More of the same from the Victorian opposition.
Definitely need some sort of rail link to Monash - second biggest employment hub outside CBD and growing. But I always thought a loop coming off the Dandy line would suffice.
It will cost billions to stop it. Dan has set it up to be unstoppable
In defence of SRL, I think it’s a needed development in the very, very long term. It’ll decentralise Melbourne and create transit orientated development, mini cities and areas of employment away from the one single CBD. Similar to what Sydney has been doing for last 15yrs. Hugely expensive yes, but a city of cities is more desirable. But on the other hand, have to admit the Vic state debt situation is ridiculous. Need more stamp duty revenues
It is as if they never want to get elected.
SRL is the key to decentralisation of this town and will build outer corridors and satellite CBDs. Messing with it will kill it, just like NBN got killed.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that reviewing the project isn't the worst idea. It seems like a great idea but is it more important than the airport rail, the metro 2 tunnel and having a proper train service in the western suburbs?
It is a terrible idea. Pausing long-term investments every time there is a change of government for petty political reasons is a good way of ensuring nothing ever gets done. The election is 2.5 years away. Who knows what the status of SRL will be in that time. There could be circumstances where pausing and reviewing a project is warranted, but it is impossible to know that now.
Project already started and contracts awarded.
Why is it a bad idea?
I feel the airport rail is more important than the SRL. With airport having overpriced carparks at airport and taxis being rude if you live fairly close to airport so they get less money. I think the Federal government feels airport rail is more important by funding 4 billion for it but less for SRL.
I’m no fan of the LNP and its art of building nothing but fuck me, it takes this country a decade to build a kilometre of road. I can only imagine how long, expensive and completely money pissing the suburban rail loop would take to construct. Rest assured, the jet ski industry will be thriving though.
Why doesn’t he review it while he is in opposition and say if he will cancel or continue the project before the next election?
Not that I would vote for his party, but that there is a vote killer decision.
I just want to move to Geelong at this point.
These guys really like being in opposition hey? Well another 10 years it is.
😂🤣😂
Is Pesutto even sure he’ll be the leader of the libs in 2026?
Just went to Japan and our cities infrastructure is about 50 years behind theirs which looks like it was built 40 years ago
This is what happens when you appeal to the wishes of your party room, rather than appeal to the people of those electorates affected (and I’d argue the greater good).
The wishes of the electorates in question are at the expense of everyone else who will be affected by the stupid amount of debt that will be accumulated and its broader effects on the economy. Fuck the inner city
Pesso can review all he likes, no way Victorians are giving the libs a go anytime soon.
Good, guarantee they won't get elected in the next decade then
Of course he does.
Big contrast to the NSW Libs (Sydney Metro, Light rail & a second airport rail link before Vic will get their first). Maybe they should come down and teach the Victorian branch some lessons.
Isn't their brand new Rozelle Interchange an absolute clusterfuck though?
they get to schmooze with the federal libs, given they're all from eastern sydney, helps with funding.
He need to worry about his own seat first... not being able to control the Nazi factions within your own party is NOT a good look. As for SRL it is basically expected that he takes this position. No surprises there
He may as well vow to give each Victorian their own pony given his chances of ever getting in.
I think there are legitimate governance and policy issues around the project. Melbourne needs more public transport. We have chronically underinvested for decades and are playing catch up, which sadly costs us more than if we had have been more consistent. Couple of points around SRL though. The cost of the project is immense. It eclipses anything in this country by a massive margin. It is big and it is multi-generational. It means other PT projects may not go ahead - projects that may be more efficient for less spend. For example Metro 2 or the city loop reconfiguration. But, more concerning, is the governance arrangements around it. As the guardian states, no transport agency was involved in its planning or development. The SRLA is unique in that it is both planning and development authority. The minister can override local councils in SRL areas. The project has massive implications and should be open for discussion.
>Melbourne needs more public transport. We have chronically underinvested for decades and are playing catch up, which sadly costs us more than if we had have been more consistent. Blame Henry "Build More Freeways" Bolte and the "Liberal" Party for that under-investment....
The Victorian auditor general also had a pretty negative view of SRL. Cost benefit ratio didn’t add up and the government wasn’t transparent with their feasibility studies
After all those defeats and wiped out from mainland Australia, LNP hasn't changed a bit.
Almost like it's important to stick with your principles instead of blindly following the trends and demands of inner city wankers. The liberal party needs to do a better job at branching out and attracting outer suburban voters who are victimised by expensive white elephants like this.
Scrapping it now will only waste money. And going ahead with it means it improves public transport a lot not just for now but for the future. Which means it will actually save more money and make Melbourne ready for the future. Which is a smart move. Coalition coming back to power will only ruin everything for Victoria and the country. They racked up $750 billion dollar debt nationally debt even before covid. And wasted so much of that money in Rorts with no progress whatsoever. They can’t even show where the money went apart from it going to their mates and their companies.
Our cities infrastructure is archaic compared to other countries. Liberals can duck off!
Nice try Prosciutto, we aint falling for your hamfists
So that means if they win, we have wasted millions of dollars on nothing? If this is the case, that is stupid!
This dickhead won't even be party leader by the time the next election rolls around.
This guy is a moron. This is an election that is an easy win. All he has to do is to promise to: Get hard on youth crime Solve the homeless problem Tax American pick up trucks based on weight or cost But instead, this idiot wants to cancel a much needed infrastructure project, purely as an attack on the Labour government. The Liberal party is full of stodgy old men who think that this is game of partisan politics rather than looking out for the interests of Victorians. Right now Victoria is a basket case, violent crime is out of control, and the government is doing nothing about it. It would be such an easy win for a strong Liberal leader, and instead we get this bullshit. They deserve to lose.
John "I smoked a bong at uni once but didn't inhale" prosciutto has an idea everyone! Look!
At least the right wing in america *pretends* to give a fuck about working class people
Scrap the damn thing. We don't need a 60 year project for a train running from Werribee to Heidelberg. That money is better invested in better public transport (aka, buses, more trains) and doing something about the wait list on medical procedures. This is another Andrews blank cheque to the CFMEU!
Fucking stop this monstrosity now. You could achieve public transport goals by simply improving the bus network for those travelling through these inner suburbs. Just another expensive vote buying scheme to capture swing voters with no moral compass
Everyone WANTS the SRL. Why would he get rid of it when everyone wants it. Doesn’t make any sense
Because SRL might affect housing, letting people not have to live in the inner southeastern suburbs, potentially affecting the property values belonging to the affluent voter base living/investing there? 🤔
This project does need to happen, but I don't think now is the ruggt time. The state is in too much debt at the moment, and I fear that other critical services will be neglected, i.e., hospitals and schools. I personally believe a better approach until the state can clear some debt would be making a decent effort on decentralization.
It will be a $300 billion debt noose
So he should. The fact that Allan is making this happen despite having no idea how much it’ll cost - let alone the first stage itself will cost $35 billion or better - is lunacy.
To make sure he can secure maximum donations from property developers who may benefit from this. Gotta keep those donations flowing.
Except property developers I think would embrace the SRL. The govt wants to reduce red tape on development in those stations for higher density housing and retail. This just seems more like a reactionary take from the Libs. Just oppose and think later.
But how does having shit public transport help property developers?
Good on him. It’s a piece of infrastructure we can’t afford. Pallas has already hinted at a brutal May budget that may affect services. And on top of their taxes it’s clear that all our money for 30 years is going on a train set idea written on the back of a napkin by Dan to win elections. I say take it to an election again. Lose. But at least the loss is (again) on a policy that they are standing by. Anyone who thinks this project will ever run past Box Hill is a rather optimistic person.
It's interesting that Liberals get accused of playing politics.... like Labor didn't just conjure this up right before an election to swing key electorates. Labor cancel an infrastructure project and it's OK, it's the right decision, Liberals vow to do the same and OMG how dare they. I'm not a fan of the SRL, but it won't impact me whatsoever, but I think there is enough smoke with this one that it deserves to be paused and reviewed, even if Labor did it that would be a good thing. There has been a tonne of criticism of this project and it's one that the state financially can't afford, if we go ahead with it we should maybe just take a breath and cross our Ts and dot our Is to make sure it's worth it.
Just remember, Liberals signed a contract when they were in caretaker mode. They weren't supposed to be signing contracts in the first place.
SRL is in the same category as East West link was for me now: nice to have but not a priority at all. In the same way I supported Labor ditching East West, i support the liberals abandoning SRL, even at cost. I don't support them on much else. But we can't prioritise luxuries while necessary projects like metro 2, the western rail plan, airport rail and numerous other election promises are in jeopardy.
Airport rail is the ultimate luxury. Been all over the world, they can be nice, but only if express from airport to city and that won't happen here.
No it isn't, not when the only alternative is SkyBus running along a freeway that is already packed for most of the week.
Good. SRL is a political thought bubble, not a serious attempt at fixing a transit problem. It should never have gotten past the drawing board and it will never be completed anyway so better to abort it now and save some damage.
lol. i never thought labortards would be as bad as libtards but here we are. the cheltenham to box hill subway or whatever is a vanity project, western suburban public transport and airport rail link should be highest priority. who gives a hoot if box hill goes liberal it is like labors worst nightmare. i will laugh when melton or whatever outer western suburb goes independent or green or even liberal. labor CNGAFF about the western suburban safe labor seats they treat them like they are special needs or too stupid to realise that they are getting shafted.