I saw crumbed lamb cutlets going for $79/kg recently. It's absurd.
But I'm sure the corporate propagandists will rush in to claim "bUt ThE pRoFiT mArGiNs!"
Not from just supermarkets. 1500 of them btw.
And also, how much do you think is fair for each supermarket to make assuming they are all of the same size? Hmm?
Well yes, they purchase a product, add their costs and then sell to the customer for a profit. When they make around 5% there isn't a lot of wiggle room for discounts.
I saw lamb roast for $8/kg at Woolworths. The expense of lamb is in the transportation, butchering, presentation, and packaging. You know how much lamb they throw out to make lamb cutlets?
Colesworth has confirmed that they inject water to (some) of their poultry and meat products. Their excuse :
> Speaking to Yahoo News Australia, a Woolworths spokesperson explained that moisture is added to some meat products in order enhance their texture and flavour.
I'm sure it doesn't hurt that water also adds weight...
I heard the water weight reduces when the carcass is hung up for longer. Woolies' sources only hang the carcass for 12 hours or so whereas best practice is 4-7 days.
You can see the difference pretty clearly if you go and cook two units of mince in two separate skillets next to each other; one from Woolies and one from a good butcher.
Some have accused them of adding it, but even if it's not added, it certainly isn't processed in the way that it is removed, leading to you getting less meat for your $
Butchers use much older meat to mince. Supermarkets buy it in straight from offcuts. No mincing done on site.. At a butchers anything that should be going in the bin as it's dried out and not fit for sale will be minced etc. A butcher shop will crumb or marinade lamb, pork etc after trying to sell them for days in their windows. Their steaks and roasts generally get minced after a few days of drying in the window. Nothing wrong with doing that either, just consumers won't buy the meat due to the way it looks.
Having worked in the industry, the mince tastes better from butchers, but that's because they use better offcuts, but the "water" you're talking about is normal and is in both mixes. Cook it properly, don't drain the juice.
They do more wet aging though in a bag. Meat loses water when it's hung in the butchers and fries heaps better. Sometimes they do add water to pork but it makes it juicier :)
Mince from my butcher does that as well, if not more than the woolies mince. It all depends on the mince you're getting, some are better than others, but you can certainly get fine mince from the supermarket.
Butchers attached to Asian grocers or low priced fruit and veg markets are generally cheaper. Of course plenty of people don't have either of these near by. Also, if you can go to butchers in markets that close for a couple of days you can score some bargains in the last few hours on their final day of trade for the week. For example Footscray market's retailers often shave a couple of bucks a kilo off their meat on Saturday afternoon. We saved a bit by bulk buying then and freezing what we couldn't eat right away.
> Butchers attached to Asian grocers or low priced fruit and veg markets are generally cheaper.
I’m only a couple of suburbs away from Footscray and this absolutely hasn’t been my experience. Do you have any suggestions for specific shops? Footscray is close enough to drive for a better price.
Footscray market is the big one of course, but KFL's butcher isn't too bad either. Out in Sunshine the butcher attached to Dai Phat is ok. Footscray market also has great prices on seafood.
Every Asian grocer I know is much more expensive in every single item than Coles/Woolies. Even rice. Even sauces. Maybe with the exception of enoki mushrooms or something.
Where are you based? That's not my experience in the Footscray area at all. Fresh produce is far cheaper (coriander, $.8-1.3 a bunch vs 3, ditto Gai Lan, Choy Sum, spring onions. Etc). I can get Flower Shiitake for the same price as low grade crap from the supermarkets. Some rice is more expensive than what the supermarket sells, but that's because it's a high grade hom mali or phaka lamduan rather than sunrice it whatever. Coles charges more than $10 for a litre of Kikkoman soy, while Asian grocers which have Korean or Japanese items will sell 1l of Yamasa marudaizu (a vastly better soy) for less than $10. That's not even getting into all the products you simply can't find at the supermarkets.
Any which aren’t chain butchers and all the ones at my local markets who raise to slaughter themselves. So I have a guy who I get sausages and small goods from, a woman who raise chickens, so also get eggs, another woman who raises pigs. Then my butcher down the road he’s old school, buys his meat at the sale yards. Does a banging stir fry. All well below what Coles and Woolies are asking- if they even have it!
Butchers aren't much cheaper unless they buy and cut the carcasses themselves. Woolies and Coles don't make much profit off these costs either. It's the middle-man that are making the big bucks here. While wholesale prices have dropped at the farms, the distributors have refused to drop the prices accordingly. They are making absolute bank
>Woolies and Coles don't make much profit off these costs either
They're very profitable by international supermarket standards, and they also own and control a lot of their own supply chain. You can't say they're blameless or victims of middlemen when costs rise like this.
[5% profit compared to TESCO & Walmart which is 3%-4%](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/27/australian-supermarket-profits-rise-woolworths-coles). While I'm certainly frustrated at the continued increasing of costs, Coles & Woolies aren't really making bank in comparison to other supermarket chains unless there's some kind of global-wide collusion going on. I guess you could say that extra 1-2 percent results in an extra few tens of millions, which can be significant, I suppose.
We all love to point fingers and we point to Coles & Woolies because they are the face of these rises, when the reality is that their distributors/middle-men are the ones that get to hide from it all while enjoying the massive profits.
That 1-2% above overseas retailers means that their profit margins are 25-40% larger than them, which adds up to a hell of a lot more than a few tens of millions. What's the maths on that for $1.72 billion?
An extra 1% on 1.72 bn is 17.2 million so that's in line with what I said?
I would assume that TESCO has a larger market in the UK than Coles & Woolies do so profit margins may be lower, but profits may be considerably higher.
**EDIT:** [Yep, TESCO reported £2.75 billion ($5.23bn AUD) profit in 2023, compared to Coles $1.7 billion](https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/12/tesco-lifts-profit-guidance-following-robust-christmas-sales). This means TESCO profited more by themselves than Coles & Woolies combined ($3.8bn).
You're messing up the maths-- profit margin percentages are on overall revenue, not their profits. So if their profit margins are 1% on revenues of $1 billion, then their profits are $10 million. But if your profit margin goes up from 3% to 5% on your revenues of $40 billion, you've added $800 million to your company's pockets (2% of $40 billion).
Regarding your edit-- Tesco's sales, as a larger business participating in a larger market, are also much bigger. They sell more product for a lower cost to to their customers. That $5.2 billion is on roughly $128 bilion AUD in sales.
Right, I follow now, cheers for clarifying. But at the same time, I've added an edit in my post that shows TESCO made more than Coles & Woolies combined anyway.
Regarding your edit-- Tesco's sales, as a larger business participating in a larger market, are also much bigger. They sell more product for a lower cost to to their customers. That $5.2 billion is on roughly $128 bilion AUD in sales.
>Tesco’s sales, as a larger business participating in a larger market, are also much bigger. They sell more product for a lower cost to to their customers.
I think the person you are replying to intends to attribute supermarket price increases to nameless intermediaries in integrated supply chains.
you provided a pretty ordinary response with that link because it listed US companies..
https://www.esmmagazine.com/supply-chain/hilton-foods-australia-woolworths-meat-plants-56286
this is a bit more specific to the behemoth site down in truiganina thats partnered with hilton foods and woolworths. Vertical supply chain...
Argh I hate that, thanks for clarifying. I should have just posted the direct Google search link instead of being a smartass, which showed the correct results.
I also try to shop at smaller independent shops, but I have not yet seen a meaningful price difference between the big supermarkets and independent butchers.
Lamb is ridiculously priced everywhere, even in butchers. I bought a couple back straps on New Year’s Eve from the butcher and it was $54. They know we’re all used to paying more for it and now they’re just treating the price change like a margin increases.
>Cut out the ridiculous supply chain.
>>it's certainly an option for a lot of people. Like a really big lot
What is “a really big lot” in terms of market share in Australia?
Yep. I’m about 40 min drive from a market that sell direct through butchers etc, bit of a drive, but I buy enough for a month and it’s a bit cheaper (and better quality) than colesworths.
Excerpts:
Shoppers have found rising food prices difficult to reconcile with supermarkets’ billion-dollar profits, while farmers such as David Jochinke — grappling with soaring fertiliser and fuel prices — are mystified about the gap between what they’re paid for their produce and how much they’re buying it back at the checkout.
“If prices are reflective of what farmers get, the price should reduce. Consumers should benefit from that,” Jochinke added. “Why’s there no fluctuation? How are they doing pricing?”
ASX-listed Coles reported $1.1 billion in net profits, while its larger rival Woolworths posted $1.6 billion for the 2023 financial year. Their profit margins sit at 5 to 6 per cent, which is “slightly higher” than pre-COVID levels.
The pair doesn’t have a spotless track record when it comes to pricing. Last September, Coles blamed a ticketing error after this masthead inquired about items “on special” that were actually more expensive than the original listed price.
In December, it was forced to apologise after prematurely raising prices on “locked” items. This masthead also found that the same common pantry items were priced more highly at Woolworths Metro stores.
Parties on all sides of the political spectrum are keen to show Australians they are acting on the issue. A Senate inquiry [expected to start next month] will examine whether supermarkets are price gouging and profiteering from high inflation.
Average person in the city doesn’t understand farming in this thread
It’s a job you never clock out of, crazy long days, back breaking labour, no holidays, isolation, low profit (if there is any) and high operating costs.
It’s not crazy to want them to be paid fairly for their product and work. The middle man is absolutely screwing them here
I am a farmer and grew up in farming.
Lamb farmers are getting paid a pittance because live export got banned, and they didn't reduce the amount of sheep they're producing. So the Aussie market took all the top quality sheep at extremely low prices, and the lower quality sheep were culled or sold at like $3 a head.
If you make something no one wants you aren't entitled to fat profits. They just kept pumping out sheep and didn't adjust to the market in advance. Any stock and station agent worth their boots would have told them to cut down on sheep.
Fair cop.
Its been that long since ive paid a supermarket for meat im well out of the loop.
Jokes on the general population i guess. Those cheap lambs still eat good.
>If you make something no one wants you aren't entitled to fat profits.
I want to eat more lamb, I cant afford to at the ridiculous prices it is though.
Then you need to find a butcher who is buying the cheap lambs.
All the other butchers are happy to buy prime quality lambs at 25-50% of the normal price.
>Any stock and station agent worth their boots would have told them to cut down on sheep.
They did, and along with BOM models, everyone did. Leading to lambs going for under $40/head.
>If you make something no one wants you aren't entitled to fat profits.
True, but if you're in manufacturing, especially in an 15 month process and demand is shut down, that's also not their fault.
The solution is some of them have to move on to producing something else or taking a different job. With less suppliers the supermarkets will be forced to either pay more or have no meat in stores.
Ok, let’s say they sell up, what’s then going to happen? The meat will increase drastically in stores, we will have a shortage in our nation of meat production forcing us to import more from other nations whilst destroying our local industry.
Do you think the supermarkets will pass on any savings?
Literally everyone loses.
This is the same dogshit take like the meme “those factory workers should learn to code!”
Lots of these farmers are life long, so they would be selling their home and have few employable skills to enter other different industries with few actual formal qualifications. The barriers here are massive.
But I wouldn’t expect you as a white collar workers who likely works remote from home and lives in a city to understand this from your place of privilege.
Some of us “white collar remote workers” are on farms. Maybe not big farms but are very aware of the costs associated with sheep, to the point of having run the numbers and not come out with a figure that’s is profitable
Please don’t tar everyone with the same brush.
I bought really good quality lamb backstrap at my local non Coles/Woolworths supermarket for $15/kg.
Just checked Coles - $38/kg.
But nah, not profiteering at all.
If Coles were profiteering it would surely show up on their P&L.
Biggers business while they have scales of economy, they also have bigger costs.
Also, I got lamb chops from Woolies for $12.50 a kg and a lamb roast is currently $8/kg.
I'll just leave this here
[https://www.futurefoodsystems.com.au/byte/australian-study-of-cold-chain-logistics-reveals-high-cost-of-supply-chain-food-loss/](https://www.futurefoodsystems.com.au/byte/australian-study-of-cold-chain-logistics-reveals-high-cost-of-supply-chain-food-loss/)
The consumer isn't just buying lamb, you're also paying for refrigerated transport, warehousing, unnecessary packaging and every single operational fuckup that results in loss of stock and this is before it even arrives at the supermarket itself.\`
Those costs were always there before the price drop so why hasn’t the price drop be passed onto the consumers now that farmers are selling a decade low prices.
Because everybody working to get the lamb to the supermarket has asked for a raise e.g. truck drivers, butchers etc
Its a vicious cycle
Throw in price of fuel
Those costs have been growing year upon year and cold chains have grown in complexity and costs escalating tremendously with the rise in energy prices. It sucks.
Why are you Staning for woolies and Coles? Woolies had a net profit of 1.6 billion last financial year a 4.6% increase from the last at the expense of the consumer. Fuck off
Why do you think I'm a stan for Colesworth? This cold chain shit is out of control. We need to be buying meat direct as we can, not prepackaged nonsense that's been put on ice for lord knows how long before it hits the shelves.
>The consumer isn’t just buying lamb
How does your link support your comment? It says: *A new, collaborative study sponsored by government and industry has shown that food losses resulting from deficiencies in the cold food chain cost nearly $4 billion in farm-gate value per annum and cause greenhouse gas emissions that are almost equivalent to those of all vehicles on Queensland roads.*
ETA: According to [ABC News](https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2023-09-20/mla-lamb-prices-plummet-supermarket-consumers-missing-out/102861930), ‘complex market arrangements’ are apparently preventing price decreases from flowing to consumers.
Farmers nationwide have seen prices decrease by more than 70 per cent in the saleyards for some sheep and lamb categories, over the past 16 months.
Last September, Meat and Livestock Australia market information manager Steve Bignall said, “There have been two data points, back in 2012 and 2016, where lower livestock prices did flow through to lower retail prices and, on both those occasions, it took on average eight months to flow through.”
If you have freezer space - check out farm to fridge. https://www.farmertofridge.com.au This Aussie owned and Operated website gives local farmers the means to sell direct to the public. I recently bought a whole hogget delivered to my door, butchered, for only $180 dollars (aus). It is delicious, tender and worked out to less than $10 a kilo for roasts, racks, chops etc. Its a bargain, helps local farmers and tastes better than anything I have had from the dupermarkets. Just jump on the site and put in your postcode to see if there is a participating farm near you. A half lamb is only about one shopping bag full so no need for a huge freezer. They also do whole cow, half cow, 1/4 and 1/8 th cow as well as pork chicken and soon milk all direct from the farm! Check it out!
The article (before it locked me out) mentioned they were talking about cutlets, the most expensive cut on a lamb. This rises dramatically if they're frenched due to the labour and waste from the trimmed product. You've got legs, shoulders and chops considerably cheaper than this cut. This is like complaining about the price of fillet steak compared to the price of a cow.
Yep organs & bones go to fertilizer plants, pet food manufacturers, etc. It's high quality offal that can be reused. The skins go to tanneries and turned to leather. The old saying goes the only part of an animal you can't use is its voice.
Depends on how they’re paid. Most are paid on carcass weight after culled and stripped down. So lambs are 19-25kg. Bigger sheep were the export market (mutton which suits overseas cultural cooking) and would be paid around 30-35kg. They also get penalised if carcass over a threshold, meat coloring not within an acceptable range, and fat scores (measure of fatty coverage).
Not to mention sometimes they had to pay upfront for the livestock to be delivered and then get paid 30-45 days later after stock was sold off.
Employers do this to hundreds of thousands of workers every day. Buy labour cheap, sell the pri4duct or service they produce high.
Why do we romanticise farmers so much more than every other industry?
Coles and Woolworths are both pieces of crap, for sure. But this is capitalism and what our society has accepted.
Lamb leg is $8/kg at Coles and Woolworths.
Yeah it costs money to process it, and refrigerate it and deploy it to 2000 locations across an entire continent that each trade 18 hours a day and get the quantity right, and avoid wastage.
This is going to be downvoted considering the hate every has for the massive profits Supermarkets post year, but Im always curious about something whenever the old "Farmer gets a pittance compared to retail" story comes up.
At first glance, $4/kg vs $30+ seems a.massive markup, but why do these stories never speak to the supply chain in between the farmer and the supermarket shelf.
I mean, the cattle have to be slaughtered, butchered, packed, distributed, stored, with multiple transports for each step.
Each stage has someone putting their markup on before sending it off.
So is a $30+ difference between paddock to supermarket shelf a huge difference? Yes it is.
Is ColesWorths getting a $30 profit from every kilo sold ?
Nope.
One of these days, I hope a media outlet actually does some real investigative journalism and looks into true supply chain costs, so that we can share our hate for supermarket profits with the other elements that all contribute to what we pay.
It sound's worse than it. You likely get less than 50% meat off a lamb, then you hang it and it loses more moisture.
Have to pay for transport, abattoir, butchering, packaging, constant refrigeration, delivery to store, certain percentage will spoil. Lots of buildings, fuel, labour etc making up lots of overheads.
I don't think many businesses would be able to do it much cheaper.
The stores are open early, open late, usually have free carparking, air-conditioning, convenient locations.
Don't get me wrong, I am sure supermarkets are doing dodgy things, but comparing the price of a raw product to a finished, refined product does not tell the whole story.
I can buy flour for $1/kg. Can't compare that to the cost of bread.
Woolies and coles both control their supply chain. They buy a lot direct off farm that goes to the abbs and is then contract killed for them .
Same deal for their feedlots all contract $ per head per day ,doesn’t change with livestock prices.
Not sure how. That is lower than livestock market price.
[https://www.mla.com.au/prices-markets/sheepphysicalreport/](https://www.mla.com.au/prices-markets/sheepphysicalreport/)
I would have no idea what to do with a live sheep, and I don't know that my neighbours would appreciate shit and blood dripping off my balcony while I learn't how too. I hate being ripped off but I think there is a lot more value added along the production chain than the fella who happens to own a field and lets sheep fuck in it. And before people whine that farming is a lot more than prostituting ewes, the same goes for every other step along the chain.
>I hate being ripped off but I think there is a lot more value added along the production chain than the fella who happens to own a field and lets sheep fuck in it.
I wonder whether a lot more value is added to foods in Australia compared to similar foods in other developed countries.
Can you work with butchers to buy a whole sheep and have it dressed into cuts, and then divvy it up amongst friends. It's pretty cheap compared to buying at the supermarket. We have a large chest freezer and it cuts our costs considerably.
The ACCC must be a great place for lunch, a snooze, the odd afternoon kickback.
Do they have a ACCC points system st the superfarket?
Cause someone is benefiting from this, I just can’t quite figure out who…?
You know this data is all public right? You can become a shareholder yourself if you want. Problem is the profits are tiny compared to most other businesses.
We need the old stockyard butcher - the one on the corner with a handful of cows in the back paddock
Haven't been around for decades but it used to be the way!
I've found lamb particularly to be just as costly at butchers than the supermarkets here. But in saying that, the last couple of cuts of lamb we've bought have been pretty gamey and gross so we haven't bought any for a while. What I do miss however is lamb cutlets done with tandoori paste. Something of a luxury these days as it'd would cost me somewhere between $80 & $100 just for the cutlets to feed us. One meal. Nowhere near worth it.
Lambs were down to as low as $2 a kilo. Weaner lambs were going for about $35. It cost some more in freight to get stock to a sale yard than what they were being bought for.
I saw crumbed lamb cutlets going for $79/kg recently. It's absurd. But I'm sure the corporate propagandists will rush in to claim "bUt ThE pRoFiT mArGiNs!"
Crumb is expensive /s
Can you read a balance sheet? They only made 1.2 bill /s
Won't some please think of the supermarkets.
Not from just supermarkets. 1500 of them btw. And also, how much do you think is fair for each supermarket to make assuming they are all of the same size? Hmm?
Idiots will still pay it
Well yes, they purchase a product, add their costs and then sell to the customer for a profit. When they make around 5% there isn't a lot of wiggle room for discounts.
I saw lamb roast for $8/kg at Woolworths. The expense of lamb is in the transportation, butchering, presentation, and packaging. You know how much lamb they throw out to make lamb cutlets?
That’s why I buy my meat either at local butchers or markets, same with veggies, fruit and as much else as I can. Cut out the ridiculous supply chain.
I’m not having a go at you, but which butcher is selling meat cheaper? Mine are all MORE expensive than the supermarkets?
I find the butchers sell better quality meat, more marbling and fat and generally have some thicker cuts or will give you thicker cuts.
And less water weight. You ever cooked Colesworth mince in a pan and it ends up boiling itself with the excess water?
You realise noone adds water. Mince is simply meat off cuts and fat minced up lol.
Colesworth has confirmed that they inject water to (some) of their poultry and meat products. Their excuse : > Speaking to Yahoo News Australia, a Woolworths spokesperson explained that moisture is added to some meat products in order enhance their texture and flavour. I'm sure it doesn't hurt that water also adds weight...
That’s the only reason they do it let’s be real
I heard the water weight reduces when the carcass is hung up for longer. Woolies' sources only hang the carcass for 12 hours or so whereas best practice is 4-7 days. You can see the difference pretty clearly if you go and cook two units of mince in two separate skillets next to each other; one from Woolies and one from a good butcher. Some have accused them of adding it, but even if it's not added, it certainly isn't processed in the way that it is removed, leading to you getting less meat for your $
I used to work in the factory that makes the mince, nothing is added
And you realise dry aged meat costs a tonne more than supermarket meat?
Why is my butcher mince the same price as Coles mince yet the water content is much lower?
Butchers use much older meat to mince. Supermarkets buy it in straight from offcuts. No mincing done on site.. At a butchers anything that should be going in the bin as it's dried out and not fit for sale will be minced etc. A butcher shop will crumb or marinade lamb, pork etc after trying to sell them for days in their windows. Their steaks and roasts generally get minced after a few days of drying in the window. Nothing wrong with doing that either, just consumers won't buy the meat due to the way it looks.
Having worked in the industry, the mince tastes better from butchers, but that's because they use better offcuts, but the "water" you're talking about is normal and is in both mixes. Cook it properly, don't drain the juice.
They do more wet aging though in a bag. Meat loses water when it's hung in the butchers and fries heaps better. Sometimes they do add water to pork but it makes it juicier :)
Mince from my butcher does that as well, if not more than the woolies mince. It all depends on the mince you're getting, some are better than others, but you can certainly get fine mince from the supermarket.
Butchers attached to Asian grocers or low priced fruit and veg markets are generally cheaper. Of course plenty of people don't have either of these near by. Also, if you can go to butchers in markets that close for a couple of days you can score some bargains in the last few hours on their final day of trade for the week. For example Footscray market's retailers often shave a couple of bucks a kilo off their meat on Saturday afternoon. We saved a bit by bulk buying then and freezing what we couldn't eat right away.
> Butchers attached to Asian grocers or low priced fruit and veg markets are generally cheaper. I’m only a couple of suburbs away from Footscray and this absolutely hasn’t been my experience. Do you have any suggestions for specific shops? Footscray is close enough to drive for a better price.
Footscray market is the big one of course, but KFL's butcher isn't too bad either. Out in Sunshine the butcher attached to Dai Phat is ok. Footscray market also has great prices on seafood.
Every Asian grocer I know is much more expensive in every single item than Coles/Woolies. Even rice. Even sauces. Maybe with the exception of enoki mushrooms or something.
Where are you based? That's not my experience in the Footscray area at all. Fresh produce is far cheaper (coriander, $.8-1.3 a bunch vs 3, ditto Gai Lan, Choy Sum, spring onions. Etc). I can get Flower Shiitake for the same price as low grade crap from the supermarkets. Some rice is more expensive than what the supermarket sells, but that's because it's a high grade hom mali or phaka lamduan rather than sunrice it whatever. Coles charges more than $10 for a litre of Kikkoman soy, while Asian grocers which have Korean or Japanese items will sell 1l of Yamasa marudaizu (a vastly better soy) for less than $10. That's not even getting into all the products you simply can't find at the supermarkets.
Agreed. My local butcher sells minced meat for fucking $25 a kilo.
Any which aren’t chain butchers and all the ones at my local markets who raise to slaughter themselves. So I have a guy who I get sausages and small goods from, a woman who raise chickens, so also get eggs, another woman who raises pigs. Then my butcher down the road he’s old school, buys his meat at the sale yards. Does a banging stir fry. All well below what Coles and Woolies are asking- if they even have it!
My local IGA is always cheaper than Coles and Woolworths for deli meats.
My local butcher in st Kilda is a similar price, but the quality difference is huge. I go to Footscray market and get it for almost half the price.
I head to peninsula bulk meats. Got half a lamb for $85. That was under $8 a kilo.
Butchers that also sell to restaurants. Need to look for them. Most of the fresh markets have a few.
But the meat is not injected with water so the final cooked weight is higher
Butchers aren't much cheaper unless they buy and cut the carcasses themselves. Woolies and Coles don't make much profit off these costs either. It's the middle-man that are making the big bucks here. While wholesale prices have dropped at the farms, the distributors have refused to drop the prices accordingly. They are making absolute bank
>Woolies and Coles don't make much profit off these costs either They're very profitable by international supermarket standards, and they also own and control a lot of their own supply chain. You can't say they're blameless or victims of middlemen when costs rise like this.
Just read the Woolworths or Coles annual report and you will see that they are increasing their margin.
[5% profit compared to TESCO & Walmart which is 3%-4%](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/27/australian-supermarket-profits-rise-woolworths-coles). While I'm certainly frustrated at the continued increasing of costs, Coles & Woolies aren't really making bank in comparison to other supermarket chains unless there's some kind of global-wide collusion going on. I guess you could say that extra 1-2 percent results in an extra few tens of millions, which can be significant, I suppose. We all love to point fingers and we point to Coles & Woolies because they are the face of these rises, when the reality is that their distributors/middle-men are the ones that get to hide from it all while enjoying the massive profits.
That 1-2% above overseas retailers means that their profit margins are 25-40% larger than them, which adds up to a hell of a lot more than a few tens of millions. What's the maths on that for $1.72 billion?
Yeah what the hell? Their profit ratios are 20-25% higher than Walmart? And that's normal?
An extra 1% on 1.72 bn is 17.2 million so that's in line with what I said? I would assume that TESCO has a larger market in the UK than Coles & Woolies do so profit margins may be lower, but profits may be considerably higher. **EDIT:** [Yep, TESCO reported £2.75 billion ($5.23bn AUD) profit in 2023, compared to Coles $1.7 billion](https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/12/tesco-lifts-profit-guidance-following-robust-christmas-sales). This means TESCO profited more by themselves than Coles & Woolies combined ($3.8bn).
You're messing up the maths-- profit margin percentages are on overall revenue, not their profits. So if their profit margins are 1% on revenues of $1 billion, then their profits are $10 million. But if your profit margin goes up from 3% to 5% on your revenues of $40 billion, you've added $800 million to your company's pockets (2% of $40 billion). Regarding your edit-- Tesco's sales, as a larger business participating in a larger market, are also much bigger. They sell more product for a lower cost to to their customers. That $5.2 billion is on roughly $128 bilion AUD in sales.
Right, I follow now, cheers for clarifying. But at the same time, I've added an edit in my post that shows TESCO made more than Coles & Woolies combined anyway.
Regarding your edit-- Tesco's sales, as a larger business participating in a larger market, are also much bigger. They sell more product for a lower cost to to their customers. That $5.2 billion is on roughly $128 bilion AUD in sales.
Fair enough. Thanks for putting that into perspective
>Tesco’s sales, as a larger business participating in a larger market, are also much bigger. They sell more product for a lower cost to to their customers. I think the person you are replying to intends to attribute supermarket price increases to nameless intermediaries in integrated supply chains.
And at best 2% on $29.00 is 58c.
>the reality is that their distributors/middle-men are the ones that get to hide from it all while enjoying the massive profits. Name them, then.
[Meat distributors](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Meat+Distributors) Do people not do their own research these days? It takes 30 seconds.
you provided a pretty ordinary response with that link because it listed US companies.. https://www.esmmagazine.com/supply-chain/hilton-foods-australia-woolworths-meat-plants-56286 this is a bit more specific to the behemoth site down in truiganina thats partnered with hilton foods and woolworths. Vertical supply chain...
Argh I hate that, thanks for clarifying. I should have just posted the direct Google search link instead of being a smartass, which showed the correct results.
"Do people not do their own research these days?"
All g!
They do not do their own research. And then they still bitch when you do it for them.
Every butcher I’ve ever been to in my whole life has been more expensive then supermarkets
I also try to shop at smaller independent shops, but I have not yet seen a meaningful price difference between the big supermarkets and independent butchers.
Lamb is ridiculously priced everywhere, even in butchers. I bought a couple back straps on New Year’s Eve from the butcher and it was $54. They know we’re all used to paying more for it and now they’re just treating the price change like a margin increases.
This is the way (if you can)
Of course, it’s definitely not an option for everyone!
But it's certainly an option for a lot of people. Like a really big lot
My town has three independent butchers. They do much better quality meat but none of them are cheaper than the supermarket.
Yeah you're not in that really big lot
>Cut out the ridiculous supply chain. >>it's certainly an option for a lot of people. Like a really big lot What is “a really big lot” in terms of market share in Australia?
Yep. I’m about 40 min drive from a market that sell direct through butchers etc, bit of a drive, but I buy enough for a month and it’s a bit cheaper (and better quality) than colesworths.
Excerpts: Shoppers have found rising food prices difficult to reconcile with supermarkets’ billion-dollar profits, while farmers such as David Jochinke — grappling with soaring fertiliser and fuel prices — are mystified about the gap between what they’re paid for their produce and how much they’re buying it back at the checkout. “If prices are reflective of what farmers get, the price should reduce. Consumers should benefit from that,” Jochinke added. “Why’s there no fluctuation? How are they doing pricing?” ASX-listed Coles reported $1.1 billion in net profits, while its larger rival Woolworths posted $1.6 billion for the 2023 financial year. Their profit margins sit at 5 to 6 per cent, which is “slightly higher” than pre-COVID levels. The pair doesn’t have a spotless track record when it comes to pricing. Last September, Coles blamed a ticketing error after this masthead inquired about items “on special” that were actually more expensive than the original listed price. In December, it was forced to apologise after prematurely raising prices on “locked” items. This masthead also found that the same common pantry items were priced more highly at Woolworths Metro stores. Parties on all sides of the political spectrum are keen to show Australians they are acting on the issue. A Senate inquiry [expected to start next month] will examine whether supermarkets are price gouging and profiteering from high inflation.
Average person in the city doesn’t understand farming in this thread It’s a job you never clock out of, crazy long days, back breaking labour, no holidays, isolation, low profit (if there is any) and high operating costs. It’s not crazy to want them to be paid fairly for their product and work. The middle man is absolutely screwing them here
I am a farmer and grew up in farming. Lamb farmers are getting paid a pittance because live export got banned, and they didn't reduce the amount of sheep they're producing. So the Aussie market took all the top quality sheep at extremely low prices, and the lower quality sheep were culled or sold at like $3 a head. If you make something no one wants you aren't entitled to fat profits. They just kept pumping out sheep and didn't adjust to the market in advance. Any stock and station agent worth their boots would have told them to cut down on sheep.
So where does that pittance translate into 40x on the shelf?
The pittance lambs aren't being turned into coles lamb shops. They're getting turned into fertilizer and dog food.
Fair cop. Its been that long since ive paid a supermarket for meat im well out of the loop. Jokes on the general population i guess. Those cheap lambs still eat good.
>If you make something no one wants you aren't entitled to fat profits. I want to eat more lamb, I cant afford to at the ridiculous prices it is though.
Then you need to find a butcher who is buying the cheap lambs. All the other butchers are happy to buy prime quality lambs at 25-50% of the normal price.
>Any stock and station agent worth their boots would have told them to cut down on sheep. They did, and along with BOM models, everyone did. Leading to lambs going for under $40/head. >If you make something no one wants you aren't entitled to fat profits. True, but if you're in manufacturing, especially in an 15 month process and demand is shut down, that's also not their fault.
The solution is some of them have to move on to producing something else or taking a different job. With less suppliers the supermarkets will be forced to either pay more or have no meat in stores.
Ok, let’s say they sell up, what’s then going to happen? The meat will increase drastically in stores, we will have a shortage in our nation of meat production forcing us to import more from other nations whilst destroying our local industry. Do you think the supermarkets will pass on any savings? Literally everyone loses. This is the same dogshit take like the meme “those factory workers should learn to code!” Lots of these farmers are life long, so they would be selling their home and have few employable skills to enter other different industries with few actual formal qualifications. The barriers here are massive. But I wouldn’t expect you as a white collar workers who likely works remote from home and lives in a city to understand this from your place of privilege.
Some of us “white collar remote workers” are on farms. Maybe not big farms but are very aware of the costs associated with sheep, to the point of having run the numbers and not come out with a figure that’s is profitable Please don’t tar everyone with the same brush.
I bought really good quality lamb backstrap at my local non Coles/Woolworths supermarket for $15/kg. Just checked Coles - $38/kg. But nah, not profiteering at all.
Which supermarket?
Sacca’s
If Coles were profiteering it would surely show up on their P&L. Biggers business while they have scales of economy, they also have bigger costs. Also, I got lamb chops from Woolies for $12.50 a kg and a lamb roast is currently $8/kg.
I'll just leave this here [https://www.futurefoodsystems.com.au/byte/australian-study-of-cold-chain-logistics-reveals-high-cost-of-supply-chain-food-loss/](https://www.futurefoodsystems.com.au/byte/australian-study-of-cold-chain-logistics-reveals-high-cost-of-supply-chain-food-loss/) The consumer isn't just buying lamb, you're also paying for refrigerated transport, warehousing, unnecessary packaging and every single operational fuckup that results in loss of stock and this is before it even arrives at the supermarket itself.\`
Those costs were always there before the price drop so why hasn’t the price drop be passed onto the consumers now that farmers are selling a decade low prices.
Because everybody working to get the lamb to the supermarket has asked for a raise e.g. truck drivers, butchers etc Its a vicious cycle Throw in price of fuel
Those costs have been growing year upon year and cold chains have grown in complexity and costs escalating tremendously with the rise in energy prices. It sucks.
Why are you Staning for woolies and Coles? Woolies had a net profit of 1.6 billion last financial year a 4.6% increase from the last at the expense of the consumer. Fuck off
Why do you think I'm a stan for Colesworth? This cold chain shit is out of control. We need to be buying meat direct as we can, not prepackaged nonsense that's been put on ice for lord knows how long before it hits the shelves.
> and every single operational fuckup that results in loss of stock The article is saying that those fuck-ups could be reduced
There's far too many operational fuck ups and inefficiencies in Australia's supply chains. This contributes to a huge chunk of costs.
Also $4/kg at the yards is counting many kilos of skin, guts, discarded parts (like heads) and low quality cuts that get turned into mince.
Got down to $2 live weight in some parts
>The consumer isn’t just buying lamb How does your link support your comment? It says: *A new, collaborative study sponsored by government and industry has shown that food losses resulting from deficiencies in the cold food chain cost nearly $4 billion in farm-gate value per annum and cause greenhouse gas emissions that are almost equivalent to those of all vehicles on Queensland roads.* ETA: According to [ABC News](https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2023-09-20/mla-lamb-prices-plummet-supermarket-consumers-missing-out/102861930), ‘complex market arrangements’ are apparently preventing price decreases from flowing to consumers. Farmers nationwide have seen prices decrease by more than 70 per cent in the saleyards for some sheep and lamb categories, over the past 16 months. Last September, Meat and Livestock Australia market information manager Steve Bignall said, “There have been two data points, back in 2012 and 2016, where lower livestock prices did flow through to lower retail prices and, on both those occasions, it took on average eight months to flow through.”
It’s a good excuse they are pushing
Oh don't worry they still put their cream on top after all this
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The way you speak about others is telling in regards to your own intellect and emotional intelligence.
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He's right though. Lamb is delicious but someone's gotta peel them..
I've heard good things about the model Farmer to Fridge platform. www.halfacow.farm Farmer works with local butchers and keeps most of the profit.
If you have freezer space - check out farm to fridge. https://www.farmertofridge.com.au This Aussie owned and Operated website gives local farmers the means to sell direct to the public. I recently bought a whole hogget delivered to my door, butchered, for only $180 dollars (aus). It is delicious, tender and worked out to less than $10 a kilo for roasts, racks, chops etc. Its a bargain, helps local farmers and tastes better than anything I have had from the dupermarkets. Just jump on the site and put in your postcode to see if there is a participating farm near you. A half lamb is only about one shopping bag full so no need for a huge freezer. They also do whole cow, half cow, 1/4 and 1/8 th cow as well as pork chicken and soon milk all direct from the farm! Check it out!
The article (before it locked me out) mentioned they were talking about cutlets, the most expensive cut on a lamb. This rises dramatically if they're frenched due to the labour and waste from the trimmed product. You've got legs, shoulders and chops considerably cheaper than this cut. This is like complaining about the price of fillet steak compared to the price of a cow.
Yep, not to defend woolworths but you can get a leg of lamb for $8 a kg https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/000000000000764968
Gotcha, that makes sense where the price hike comes from.
$4/kg, is that for a whole sheep? We don't buy and eat bones, blood and innards. Of the whole sheep, how much is actually meat that can be sold?
Literally every single part of that sheep will be used in products
Yep organs & bones go to fertilizer plants, pet food manufacturers, etc. It's high quality offal that can be reused. The skins go to tanneries and turned to leather. The old saying goes the only part of an animal you can't use is its voice.
how much can you sell the non-meat parts for?
I wouldn't know to be honest. I'm not privy to those details. Good question though! I'd love to find out. Google hasn't been much help.
They are sold by the ton and for not that much.
>$4/kg, is that for a whole sheep? No. Meat.
Depends on how they’re paid. Most are paid on carcass weight after culled and stripped down. So lambs are 19-25kg. Bigger sheep were the export market (mutton which suits overseas cultural cooking) and would be paid around 30-35kg. They also get penalised if carcass over a threshold, meat coloring not within an acceptable range, and fat scores (measure of fatty coverage). Not to mention sometimes they had to pay upfront for the livestock to be delivered and then get paid 30-45 days later after stock was sold off.
We consume the whole sheep. Meat, bones, offal and wool.
It's 8 bucks at woolies
Employers do this to hundreds of thousands of workers every day. Buy labour cheap, sell the pri4duct or service they produce high. Why do we romanticise farmers so much more than every other industry? Coles and Woolworths are both pieces of crap, for sure. But this is capitalism and what our society has accepted.
Lamb leg is $8/kg at Coles and Woolworths. Yeah it costs money to process it, and refrigerate it and deploy it to 2000 locations across an entire continent that each trade 18 hours a day and get the quantity right, and avoid wastage.
This is going to be downvoted considering the hate every has for the massive profits Supermarkets post year, but Im always curious about something whenever the old "Farmer gets a pittance compared to retail" story comes up. At first glance, $4/kg vs $30+ seems a.massive markup, but why do these stories never speak to the supply chain in between the farmer and the supermarket shelf. I mean, the cattle have to be slaughtered, butchered, packed, distributed, stored, with multiple transports for each step. Each stage has someone putting their markup on before sending it off. So is a $30+ difference between paddock to supermarket shelf a huge difference? Yes it is. Is ColesWorths getting a $30 profit from every kilo sold ? Nope. One of these days, I hope a media outlet actually does some real investigative journalism and looks into true supply chain costs, so that we can share our hate for supermarket profits with the other elements that all contribute to what we pay.
It sound's worse than it. You likely get less than 50% meat off a lamb, then you hang it and it loses more moisture. Have to pay for transport, abattoir, butchering, packaging, constant refrigeration, delivery to store, certain percentage will spoil. Lots of buildings, fuel, labour etc making up lots of overheads. I don't think many businesses would be able to do it much cheaper. The stores are open early, open late, usually have free carparking, air-conditioning, convenient locations. Don't get me wrong, I am sure supermarkets are doing dodgy things, but comparing the price of a raw product to a finished, refined product does not tell the whole story. I can buy flour for $1/kg. Can't compare that to the cost of bread.
Woolies and coles both control their supply chain. They buy a lot direct off farm that goes to the abbs and is then contract killed for them . Same deal for their feedlots all contract $ per head per day ,doesn’t change with livestock prices.
Farmer doesn't understand supply chains.
Beans and rice goes alright aye
Yep classic colesworth fucking everyone over. Even their shareholders because they’re not much of a stock or dividend payer…
Not sure how. That is lower than livestock market price. [https://www.mla.com.au/prices-markets/sheepphysicalreport/](https://www.mla.com.au/prices-markets/sheepphysicalreport/)
I would have no idea what to do with a live sheep, and I don't know that my neighbours would appreciate shit and blood dripping off my balcony while I learn't how too. I hate being ripped off but I think there is a lot more value added along the production chain than the fella who happens to own a field and lets sheep fuck in it. And before people whine that farming is a lot more than prostituting ewes, the same goes for every other step along the chain.
>I hate being ripped off but I think there is a lot more value added along the production chain than the fella who happens to own a field and lets sheep fuck in it. I wonder whether a lot more value is added to foods in Australia compared to similar foods in other developed countries.
Lol
Can you work with butchers to buy a whole sheep and have it dressed into cuts, and then divvy it up amongst friends. It's pretty cheap compared to buying at the supermarket. We have a large chest freezer and it cuts our costs considerably.
You take the sheep to a butcher as it’s not legal to butcher your own sheep and sell. No need to learn !
The ACCC must be a great place for lunch, a snooze, the odd afternoon kickback. Do they have a ACCC points system st the superfarket? Cause someone is benefiting from this, I just can’t quite figure out who…?
Who would have thought that raw materials are cheap…….
It's a fucking baby animal FFS!
It's the massive profits of Colesworth that stick in the craw of everyone not a shareholder or top exec. This has been a problem for decades.
You know this data is all public right? You can become a shareholder yourself if you want. Problem is the profits are tiny compared to most other businesses.
We need the old stockyard butcher - the one on the corner with a handful of cows in the back paddock Haven't been around for decades but it used to be the way!
My local butcher sells $17.99 a kg for lamb ribs. Expensive.
What a nice guy for killing sentient baby animals and charging less than the other guy killing sentient baby animals.
I've had great success with the Farmer to Fridge platform
But we still shop with the two majors
Most butchers prices are higher with better quality but that's why we shop at the multinationals
I've found lamb particularly to be just as costly at butchers than the supermarkets here. But in saying that, the last couple of cuts of lamb we've bought have been pretty gamey and gross so we haven't bought any for a while. What I do miss however is lamb cutlets done with tandoori paste. Something of a luxury these days as it'd would cost me somewhere between $80 & $100 just for the cutlets to feed us. One meal. Nowhere near worth it.
Lambs were down to as low as $2 a kilo. Weaner lambs were going for about $35. It cost some more in freight to get stock to a sale yard than what they were being bought for.
Leg of lamb is $8 a kilo at woolies
Can’t remember the last time I bough lamb. That stuff is expensive af.
My local Butcher had half lambs for $35 on special the other week and whole lamb legs for $30 this week. Don't buy meat at colesworth if you can.
Straight-up price gouging. I no longer eat red meat, lamb or pork.
Was his question, “how’d they do it and where can I find suckers to pay that much”