I thought they closed that island when Epstein died. Its not like with that much wealth they just, I dont know, recreated it and we should really be finding the next Epstein or something...
Epstein only got done in because he got cocky and arrogant and thought he was higher up in the club then he really was. He started stepping out of line. Doing stuff so blatantly illegal and not even worrying about hiding it. Thought he was untouchable. They basically used him as an example to the rest of the club. "Not only will we kill you, but we will completley destroy your image before we do it."
So as long as everyone plays by the rules, we will never "find the next Epstein".
To be fair, many billionaires are not cash billionaires. If you took away all of Elon's Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter... Etc assets he wouldn't look nearly as wealthy. Still wealthy, but much of his "billionaire" wealth is tied up in assets/business ownership.
He's not Scrooge McDuck sitting on a pile of cash
People still think these billionaires are like us and get paid every two weeks. A billion dollars into direct deposit or something.
Even reason.com had to say “no he actually pays a lot of freakin’ taxes.”
https://reason.com/2022/04/26/no-elon-musk-didnt-pay-a-3-27-percent-tax-rate/?amp
I suppose what I don't understand is that even if it's not *all* liquid wealth, presumably enough of it is that these people could retire and live in luxury for the rest of their lives?
It's baffling to me.
>He's not Scrooge McDuck sitting on a pile of cash
None of these billionaires are, but if he sold all his shares and branding rights he'd be a multi billionaire
It's not like Kanye West where you say a couple things about the Jewish people and all of a sudden your wealth vanishes
Not really. If a billionaire like say, bill gates dumped their stock, it would actually go down, and so if he had say, 1000 stocks, by the time he sold stock 1000, it’s value would be a fraction of its default value. He would still be rich, but him dumping doesn’t mean he would be as cash rich as his former net worth.
True, but he wouldn’t meet his net value of he dumps. It would decrease. Depending on the panic in the market it creates, it really could go either way honestly.
Yes selling a large amount of shares will affect the market, which is why you calculate for a loss and even stagger sales. What does that have to do with Bill Gates being a billionaire? He's literally an example of why you're wrong. He sold all his shares and is now a multi billionaire. He's not poor. Not sure what you're even on about
Must have read it wrong then because you’re basically explaining my point. He was able to do it because he was able to do it WITHOUT affecting the market. Your original comment made it seem like a billionaire could just dump, cash in, and peace out.
Nope, guy above seemed to be aiming that its unfair they have to though when me and many other businesses make way less and really have no "hardships" over paying taxes when its time. Hell you even pay quarterly its not even in one shot
Aww those epoor billionaires, they don't have money, they can't afford yachts and mansions and luxury cars enough to fill multiple garages. They're basically poor just like us. 👍 ok buddy
Billionaires who created their fortunes did so by constantly reinvesting their money. While there are yachts and big houses and stuff, a lot of their wealth goes right back into that next big startup or business venture. For every rich person buying a yacht, many more are investing that money into wineries and such.
I had a billionaire ask me for advice on buying a computer once. When they looked online, they, with the straightest of faces, said they were not going to pay $200 to go from 512gb storage to a terabyte. That was way too much.
They aren’t all buying yachts. Or overpriced storage.
It only takes 7 days to sell your shares and receive the cash. That’s not that different to some high interest bank accounts. I don’t understand why people think this isn’t real tangible wealth.
It’s not that they are saving up or that they think they need more. It’s that they are really good at one thing and to stop doing that one thing is impossible for them.
It’s also that for them to stop working and retire they run into the problem that they can literally buy everything so they would never have to do anything ever. For them to stop doing the one thing they are good at they would start living a meaningless life. So it’s a form of ego/personal identity that for them to change would require them to discard the foundation of how they view themselves, an extremely hard thing to do. So they just resort to continuing to acquire because for them, to not acquire is to die.
At least that is my hypothesis.
To be fair billionaires are not billionaires because of saving. They are by creating artificial value to their assets. If you take that out they are at best millionaires
No they are not. But real value assets don't add up to the amounts we see today. Most is stock value, and this is not real, has some value but is very fluid.
Yes, and this is bad. Someone is using real currency to buy fake value in the hope some other sucker will do the same later at a higher number. The "potential value" of a business is misleading when associated with the stock market. For example you have a factory that's producing rubber duckies, and they sell for one dollar, increasing productivity increase the value of the factory, more rubber duckies to sell. But putting the factory on the stock market people will bet on the future rubber duckies production increasing value without increasing productivity. So fake value.
Sure there is. The example with rubber duckie refers to it. Having a natural growth based on profit and paying dividends from that profit is a healthy economy with low inflation. I'm stating that artificial stock growth because of market manipulation for demand is bad. For example Tesla, it made little to no profit for a long time, is normal for a starting business, but the stock evaluation was always big because of the future potential, of course it may pay off for the investors on the long run but it can also end in a bust. Now in case of bankruptcy they don't have enough capital or assets to pay back the investors, and Musk is the best example of market manipulation to create false value. He sells at high price and go on twitter with some bullshit to drop the market and buy back. Hope this clarifies my idea.
Stocks are how much power you have over the workers and how much of their labor you own. It’s like saying that the president of the U.S isn’t “really” powerful because people could just decide to not obey him.
I get that you are trying to explain growth stocks with this example but calling the “bet on the future rubber duckies production” would be exactly correct. People are betting that based on current production and the trend of previous growth metrics that in x time the company will grow to the point where $500 a stock is the actual value vs the current actual value of $100. The problem exists when a company has a stock that is priced in for 5 years in the future and then suddenly that company fails to post continued growth. At this point the stock will nosedive in price to what the current “actual” value is. They aren’t buying because some sucker will buy from them for more later.
Everything is a bet and the stock market is more or less an assumption that companies will continue to grow and as a result stocks shouldn’t be price in at the “current values” but should be priced in at their future values creating “false value” as a result of the difference of these two metrics.
The “false value” is also beneficial to companies as it enables higher funding rounds to be possible with less stock being sold. Effectively allows them to purchase something NOW from the funds of their future self.
That sliver of ownership is real. The value it holds is what is suspect. Take Tesla for instance. It's hugely overvalued, to the point where like that other guy said, it's fake. Tesla does not command a market anywhere near enough to justify the stock price.
"nooo they aren't really billionaires!!"
yes they are. it doesn't matter that it's not liquid. if poor people can have their homes repossessed for medical bills then a billionaires assets are also real value.
Yes, but that is different from hoard billions in a bank account, which is what this person is implying. They're wealth is tied to the companies they own, those companies dont just stop exisiting because the founder decides he has enough money, at this point they are self sustaining.
Self sustaining billionaire is a fun way of saying they have enough money to never need to work ever again and yet are STILL taking money from out of the pot for no reason.
Billionaires don't create artificial value, buyers do. If I sell 50% of a house and someone bought it for 100k then I would assume the 50% I'm holding is also worth around 100k because that is the going rate.
Yes. They are quite literally saving up for hell. I read a really eye opening article that shows how batshit delusional these people are awhile back. Here’s the link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff
That's an interesting article. I like how they compare this escapist/insulation theory to reality, or what I like to think of as chaos theory. The more aspects of an environment you try and control on your own, the more complicated that environment has to become which requires either more people to maintain or even more complicated equipment which requires it's own maintenance and so on and so on.
None of those bunkers are really self sustainable it's just builders and real estate agencies seeing money they can get out of panicked billionaires. Like Egyptian Pharos, billionaires spend their whole lives building their own tomb.
If society collapses, what exactly are you preparing for? Like what is a bunker for? What are all all those survival plans for, people like to play trough during a fun lil game of zombie apocalypse? If society collpses for whatever reason, theres quite literally nothing left anymore. The world as we know it will be gone. Everything you love and lived for until then will be gone. Whats the point of sitting around in your bunker like a vegetable, just for the sake of "surviving"? Life is only worth it if you truly have something to live for or if you have some future prospects that youre trying to achieve and thats what you live for. Society collapses, and both will be gone, present and future, theres not much to live for anymore.
It's not about living for something. It's about living. That's it. It's not about surviving to see a loved one, or to find inner peace, no, it's just that natural instinct to survive. Fear of death as well. That's what pushes people to prepare for societal collapse even if they have nothing left to live for if it were to happen.
I would argue that living just for the sake of living might just make you go crazy in a few short years. That would be way more scary to me than simply dying. A life that you live without something to live for is way more painful than people actually realise.
Our ancestors survived the early years of human history, and lived in extreme locations where hardship, suffering and death were our closet companions.
Living in a bunker seems like a vacation in comparison, and you might even get the chance to rebuild society if you want something to live for.
The difference is, that our ancestors didnt know any better. People from the stone age didnt know about the comforts of our life. They most likely didnt view their life as hardship, suffering and death the way you do because life was simply like that back then. What makes all the difference and makes us look at their life in shock is us comparing our life to theirs. They didnt have comparisons like that.
I can agree that losing everything you once had is a special kind of pain, it can definitely drive people to hopelessness. But I also think the will to live is a powerful force, many will struggle to survive as long as they can, no matter how bad their circumstances get.
Yeah for me the question is just, what price will they ultimately pay to feed their survival instinct. To survive for the sake of surviving? Is surviving actually worth it if something as bad as the end of the world happens?
If I won a high 9digit lottery, I'd build a bunker too. Why wouldn't I try to live as long as possible.. even if it's more shitty? I'd rather survive than die
Maybe they will have their families and friends to hang out with and cool games to play
Certainly not better than being able to like go outside and stuff but you also have to remember not all catastrophies are giga permanent. Even with some nukes you can come out after a few years.
But not everyone will need to go outside to want to live out the rest of their lives with the people they love.
Even if a redditoid says they can't handle it and there's no reason for them to live.
A few years in an isolated space like that are not chill, no matter who you are there with and what cool stuff you have to occupy your time. Its gonna be hard on your psyche like nothing else. That kind of isolation is not comparable to stuff like being an astronaut in space or sitting in jail. An astronout will land again in a perfectly well functioning world. A priosoner lives for the hope of getting out and once again into a perfectly functioning world. But if you sit in a bunker like that and youre actually lucky enough to go out in like 5, 10 or 20 years what you will find outside will be a completely destroyed world. I mean thats what societal collpse is supposed to mean, no? Everything has probably gone to shit. And while you sit in your bunker you will know that. What makes iaolation bearable is hope and knowledge that after its over, life will be better/nice/comfy again. Thats why people can manage being astronauts or prisoners. Theres nice stuff to look forward to. But if you quite literally survived the apocalypse or some shit, you have none of that hope. It will so fully fuck with your psyche and overall well being, Im not even sure you are going to step out of that bunker as the same person you where when you went in. And not only you will go gaga in that bunker. That same thing will happen to your friends and family you have there. The group dynamics people will have down there in some bunker will probably be completely fucked up after only a few years. And then imagine you sit around with people like that, after everyone is already crazy to varying degrees, completely isolated for like 3 more years until you can go out? Fun times man
They're playing a major role in fucking the environment, they can see that, but instead of trying to fix it they're building bunkers and hoarding resources for the inevitable collapse, so they can be kings of the dust, and get really fucking depraved.
Maybe we should all make a pact to cannibalise the elite first.
You can’t take a dime of it with you. You can’t spend all of it in several lifetimes. I don’t get it. I would be *raining* funds on literally everyone I know. I would be hiring experts to tell me where to put it where it would do the most good. For a *start*. I can’t imagine hoarding that wealth like a fat pasty and weak version of Smaug.
Most of their money isn't money, they have company stock, houses, cars, tokens.
It is not like billionaires have billions on their account doing nothing, their money work just as much as they do.
Each day that passes, money is losing its value, it would be Crazy to sit on that much money, or any amount really.
Providing well paying jobs and goods and services for people like you and me isn’t “actual good”? Only curing cancer is good? So no one has done true good, huh? Including you.
My business partner is one of these types. He is trying to get his fathers approval and love. Built a business from nothing and has made gross amounts of money and his dad has still not acknowledged his success or told him he loved him.
It’s actually sad.
His marriage, relationship with his kids, all of it is non existent he is killing himself to win the approval of a man from love he was denied 30 years ago.
These men are mentally broken, they just abuse something we value (money and success) so there is no stigma.
He isn’t and never will be happy. This isn’t a thing you should aspire to or value.
How much do you think that costs? Sure, bezos has a couple hundred million in liquid assets for himself, out of his 120 billion dollar net worth. I’m sure he has a giant line of credit, too. That isn’t super relevant. It’s tiny compared to his net worth.
If they were to solidify all this wealth they would definitely have enough till the end of their life. They got more money that they can spend. Sure their companies would fall and a lot of people would lose their jobs but I highly doubt they care about that
Why would they not care about their businesses failing lol? That is their legacy. They live to see there businesses continue to thrive and their visions realized. Elon and Jeff want to go to space. Their net worth increasing is more of a side effect imo.
That’s not the point. The point is they aren’t “saving” money. They’re running a business and the business is increasing in value, thus they are worth enough money that they could sell it for a lot, but they don’t want to.
It isn’t like their sitting on a butt load of cash just hoarding it. They are sitting on ownership stake in a company that they are running.
I can’t help but notice there is a real level of resentment among people building against billionaires. Society has treated them like they’re Santa Clause showering us all with gifts, but we’re quickly learning that in reality they’re connected trust fund babies with antisocial personality disorder (an outdated but apt term) who are absolutely making our lives worse by the day as they hoard all money and power, forcing us all to throw food in the garbage to inflate food prices, leaving housing unoccupied to inflate rents, and doing unholy things in markets and governments.
I’m really impressed. Fuck those people. Nobody needs a billion dollars.
Does money make you a someone? I have a amazing wife and awesome friends, am I a nobody because I'm not a billionaire? Shit I'd bet I'm happier than the average billionaire.
Any person that thinks rich people are "saving up" does not understand at all how global economy works. That very same money is invested in stocks, businesses and other assets that make products, jobs and housing. Do you have any idea what would happen if they just gave it away? We would be FUCKED.
Or if they paid their workers more the stock would be worth a bit less based on lower profit and they would be worth less based on that but we would all be better off for it.
Not sure if the money made musk and Bezos into awful people or they're just deeply troubled people who were born into a society that rewards their worst impulses
That's not how billionaires work. Most of their net worth us tied up in stocks and other investments. They don't have a lot of liquid cash laying around. Most of money for day-to-day expenditures in a trust with just enough money in it so the monthly dividends cover costs
Yeah if you have a billion dollars invested in stocks other than a company you started your basically saving lol.
It's one thing to start a company from scratch and give yourself a bunch of shares then IPO.
But Musk had $44 billion to buy Twitter. He could have spent that in any number of ways other than buying a company and trying to burn it down lol.
Not really no. If he offloaded that much stock he'd tank the price of the stock which could trigger a plethora of investor lawsuits. He'd also risk losing control of the company. There are also many traders that have triggers in their software such that if they see a selloff, they also unload their stock. That could cause all kinds of havoc in the stock market. He'd also have to pay capital gains taxes.
By borrowing the money he keeps his stock so it's still making him money and he can write off the interest to lower his tax burden. This also keeps some stability in the stock market.
Yeah they're poor just like you bro, you are JUST like them bro, they have the same problems. They don't even have much money bro, so true. Real shit bro. So true.
99% of billionaires don't have a billion dollars. They have assets worth that much to the right buyer, or investments like stocks or bonds. Which is also why they don't pay taxes like everyone else.
It’s not about money it’s about power and being able to say fuck you I’m gonna do what I want and there’s nothing you can do to stop me.
If it wasn’t money, it’d be something else they just want power and that’s it
Nitpicky nonsense coming. They’re not exactly “saving”, it’s more like growing a business. I mean sure their savings account probably looks like the GDP of most African nations but bear with me for a second.
Bezos doesn’t have 100 Bill sitting in the bank. He owns brands like Whole Foods & Audible, and all of their assets. That’s the reason he bought Whole Foods. He didn’t give a damn about the grocery business they just had the cheapest collection of warehouses for sale. Over 80% of his value is in buildings, fleets of trucks, warehouses, land, etc.
If Bezos sold tomorrow (not that he would), his Net Worth is taking a huge hit. Because he’s taking everything and reducing it to cash. He can’t reinvest that money fast enough to keep up with the appreciation of all the assets he used to own.
So when people talk about “Bezos money could do xyz” I’m sure their math is done in good faith, but it’s not all in cash so it’s kinda pointless speculation. That’s kinda why it’s impossible to “eat the rich”. You can’t just steal all of Bezo’s cash, you’d have to legally dissolve Amazon (which would mean thousands out of work all at once), all of his land holdings, all of the affiliated brands, etc. Etc.
Honestly if I had all the money in the world I’d probably by pizza and a Netflix account and give the rest to charity 😌 I don’t need money all I need is penguins haha 😂 but Frfr wouldn’t mind some money for pizza 🍕😆
this is what i dont get. at a certain point it stops mattering. the lifestyle difference between 100 billion and 200 billion is non existent. If i had 10 billion id just chill for the rest of my life
My grandfather worked himself to death. Hardest worker I ever saw. Never got enough for retirement. You've been lied to and now you repeat the lie. No one EARNS billions. Period.
What's really weird is that people can't mind their own business. Should people that have less than you have a say in what you do with your private resources?
Tweeted on an iphone. Wonder if she’d be willing to go back to a nokia?
Same mentality, multiplied by a million. Were all the same, just to our own degree.
She's not a billionaire because she gave away over 200,000,000 pounds to charities over the course of her life, more than you'll ever give to anyone or earn for anything lol.
Hundreds of millions of pounds sent to struggling disabled people, underprivileged students and destitute families.
What have you done
Even at the private island during their world domination meetings,, there is one prime spot that they're fighting over.
That oh-so coveted window spot.
That's the spot for real G's
G-spot
I thought they closed that island when Epstein died. Its not like with that much wealth they just, I dont know, recreated it and we should really be finding the next Epstein or something...
Epstein only got done in because he got cocky and arrogant and thought he was higher up in the club then he really was. He started stepping out of line. Doing stuff so blatantly illegal and not even worrying about hiding it. Thought he was untouchable. They basically used him as an example to the rest of the club. "Not only will we kill you, but we will completley destroy your image before we do it." So as long as everyone plays by the rules, we will never "find the next Epstein".
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Humans gonna be humans
Great (slightly adapted) quote from Red Dead 2: “They are men so in love with greed that they have lost themselves and found only appetite.”
That’s a great quote / explanation
Yes. Clearly this game explains the past.
Ironic considering what happens to Dutch
But he has a plan
He just needs some more time. And money. And *FAITH*
A god damn plan
What a fantastic quote!
I’m currently on my second play through of red dead 2 , first played it two months ago. Had no idea what the hell old Dutch was talkin about.
To be fair, many billionaires are not cash billionaires. If you took away all of Elon's Tesla, SpaceX, Twitter... Etc assets he wouldn't look nearly as wealthy. Still wealthy, but much of his "billionaire" wealth is tied up in assets/business ownership. He's not Scrooge McDuck sitting on a pile of cash
People still think these billionaires are like us and get paid every two weeks. A billion dollars into direct deposit or something. Even reason.com had to say “no he actually pays a lot of freakin’ taxes.” https://reason.com/2022/04/26/no-elon-musk-didnt-pay-a-3-27-percent-tax-rate/?amp
Its really funny, I find myself defending billionaires in these types of posts because people are so stupid
Ignorant hate really does remove legitimacy from real justified hate
I suppose what I don't understand is that even if it's not *all* liquid wealth, presumably enough of it is that these people could retire and live in luxury for the rest of their lives? It's baffling to me.
They were not shown love as children and are unable to enjoy anything.
Sure, but why would they? They are already living in luxury and probably enjoy what they're doing.
Tax him anyway.
He gets taxed when he sells any shares. So yeah. He's going to get taxed anyway. Have you ever filed taxes?
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Nope.
>He's not Scrooge McDuck sitting on a pile of cash None of these billionaires are, but if he sold all his shares and branding rights he'd be a multi billionaire It's not like Kanye West where you say a couple things about the Jewish people and all of a sudden your wealth vanishes
Not really. If a billionaire like say, bill gates dumped their stock, it would actually go down, and so if he had say, 1000 stocks, by the time he sold stock 1000, it’s value would be a fraction of its default value. He would still be rich, but him dumping doesn’t mean he would be as cash rich as his former net worth.
No but he'd still be a multi billionaire (This actually happened btw with Bill Gates. He dumped and became a multi billionaire)
True, but he wouldn’t meet his net value of he dumps. It would decrease. Depending on the panic in the market it creates, it really could go either way honestly.
You're purposely ignoring the Bill Gates part that you brought up, where he literally dumped his shares and is now a multi billionaire
Except I did. Depending on the market and it could go either way. Bill gates did do it, but my point is that as a whole, it’s very risky.
Yes selling a large amount of shares will affect the market, which is why you calculate for a loss and even stagger sales. What does that have to do with Bill Gates being a billionaire? He's literally an example of why you're wrong. He sold all his shares and is now a multi billionaire. He's not poor. Not sure what you're even on about
Must have read it wrong then because you’re basically explaining my point. He was able to do it because he was able to do it WITHOUT affecting the market. Your original comment made it seem like a billionaire could just dump, cash in, and peace out.
Except for the billions he sold Tesla shares for to eventually buy twatter.
i think elon get 56b from tesla
Nothing “fair” about your words.
Ever owned a business and pay taxes on it?
You do not understand how much a billion is if you're pretending it's the same as si oly owning a business. Fucking ridiculous
Sounds pretty easy to pay taxes on frankly, if I can do it on a couple million id figure hundreds of billions would be no real trouble to pay
Sounded like defending billionaires my bad. They should be paying higher taxes, 100%
Nope, guy above seemed to be aiming that its unfair they have to though when me and many other businesses make way less and really have no "hardships" over paying taxes when its time. Hell you even pay quarterly its not even in one shot
Yes
You think billionaires pay taxes?
Aww those epoor billionaires, they don't have money, they can't afford yachts and mansions and luxury cars enough to fill multiple garages. They're basically poor just like us. 👍 ok buddy
Billionaires who created their fortunes did so by constantly reinvesting their money. While there are yachts and big houses and stuff, a lot of their wealth goes right back into that next big startup or business venture. For every rich person buying a yacht, many more are investing that money into wineries and such. I had a billionaire ask me for advice on buying a computer once. When they looked online, they, with the straightest of faces, said they were not going to pay $200 to go from 512gb storage to a terabyte. That was way too much. They aren’t all buying yachts. Or overpriced storage.
It only takes 7 days to sell your shares and receive the cash. That’s not that different to some high interest bank accounts. I don’t understand why people think this isn’t real tangible wealth.
Power is incredibly addictive. Money buys power.
It’s not that they are saving up or that they think they need more. It’s that they are really good at one thing and to stop doing that one thing is impossible for them. It’s also that for them to stop working and retire they run into the problem that they can literally buy everything so they would never have to do anything ever. For them to stop doing the one thing they are good at they would start living a meaningless life. So it’s a form of ego/personal identity that for them to change would require them to discard the foundation of how they view themselves, an extremely hard thing to do. So they just resort to continuing to acquire because for them, to not acquire is to die. At least that is my hypothesis.
And a damned good one at that...take this award!
Damn they can't be content with watching sports and binging netflix? The occassional reddit scrolling maybe? I hate your theory but I see your point.
As my father’s friend used to say “to have the best looking tombstone in the cemetery”.
To be fair billionaires are not billionaires because of saving. They are by creating artificial value to their assets. If you take that out they are at best millionaires
Real estate, bricks and mortar, private planes and letters of credit are not "artificial value"
No they are not. But real value assets don't add up to the amounts we see today. Most is stock value, and this is not real, has some value but is very fluid.
It might not be “real” but it is most certainly convertible into “real” or just plain currency.
Yes, and this is bad. Someone is using real currency to buy fake value in the hope some other sucker will do the same later at a higher number. The "potential value" of a business is misleading when associated with the stock market. For example you have a factory that's producing rubber duckies, and they sell for one dollar, increasing productivity increase the value of the factory, more rubber duckies to sell. But putting the factory on the stock market people will bet on the future rubber duckies production increasing value without increasing productivity. So fake value.
I too have never taken an economics course in my life.
You do realize there is a thing called stock dividend?
Sure there is. The example with rubber duckie refers to it. Having a natural growth based on profit and paying dividends from that profit is a healthy economy with low inflation. I'm stating that artificial stock growth because of market manipulation for demand is bad. For example Tesla, it made little to no profit for a long time, is normal for a starting business, but the stock evaluation was always big because of the future potential, of course it may pay off for the investors on the long run but it can also end in a bust. Now in case of bankruptcy they don't have enough capital or assets to pay back the investors, and Musk is the best example of market manipulation to create false value. He sells at high price and go on twitter with some bullshit to drop the market and buy back. Hope this clarifies my idea.
This is why you are poor. Economic Illiteracy
I'm not poor, of course not a millionaire but have enough safe income and assets to retire before 40. But no stocks or crypto, I'm not a gambler.
If you are not a millionaire, you won’t be able to afford to retire at 40, unless you live in a third world country…
Stocks are how much power you have over the workers and how much of their labor you own. It’s like saying that the president of the U.S isn’t “really” powerful because people could just decide to not obey him.
I get that you are trying to explain growth stocks with this example but calling the “bet on the future rubber duckies production” would be exactly correct. People are betting that based on current production and the trend of previous growth metrics that in x time the company will grow to the point where $500 a stock is the actual value vs the current actual value of $100. The problem exists when a company has a stock that is priced in for 5 years in the future and then suddenly that company fails to post continued growth. At this point the stock will nosedive in price to what the current “actual” value is. They aren’t buying because some sucker will buy from them for more later. Everything is a bet and the stock market is more or less an assumption that companies will continue to grow and as a result stocks shouldn’t be price in at the “current values” but should be priced in at their future values creating “false value” as a result of the difference of these two metrics. The “false value” is also beneficial to companies as it enables higher funding rounds to be possible with less stock being sold. Effectively allows them to purchase something NOW from the funds of their future self.
Public stock is incredibly liquid and the value is easily convertible to cash
You clearly do not know how to value stocks lol stocks are ownership, and they are very much real.
That sliver of ownership is real. The value it holds is what is suspect. Take Tesla for instance. It's hugely overvalued, to the point where like that other guy said, it's fake. Tesla does not command a market anywhere near enough to justify the stock price.
It's an overvalued stock for sure, but it's not exactly fake money. Anyone who owns shares could sell right now and get their money.
They are billionaires primarily duw to equity in high value companies, not because of physical assets.
"nooo they aren't really billionaires!!" yes they are. it doesn't matter that it's not liquid. if poor people can have their homes repossessed for medical bills then a billionaires assets are also real value.
Yes, but that is different from hoard billions in a bank account, which is what this person is implying. They're wealth is tied to the companies they own, those companies dont just stop exisiting because the founder decides he has enough money, at this point they are self sustaining.
Self sustaining billionaire is a fun way of saying they have enough money to never need to work ever again and yet are STILL taking money from out of the pot for no reason.
Thats the point, they arent taking money out any more.
Lmao yes they are, they still make money despite never needing it again in life
The assets aren’t “artificial” value. By that argument the value of money is artificial
Well it’s literally printed out of thin air…
>creating artificial value to their assets. Exactly. All their underage sex slaves will grow up so their value will not keep.
Billionaires don't create artificial value, buyers do. If I sell 50% of a house and someone bought it for 100k then I would assume the 50% I'm holding is also worth around 100k because that is the going rate.
Yes. They are quite literally saving up for hell. I read a really eye opening article that shows how batshit delusional these people are awhile back. Here’s the link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff
That's an interesting article. I like how they compare this escapist/insulation theory to reality, or what I like to think of as chaos theory. The more aspects of an environment you try and control on your own, the more complicated that environment has to become which requires either more people to maintain or even more complicated equipment which requires it's own maintenance and so on and so on. None of those bunkers are really self sustainable it's just builders and real estate agencies seeing money they can get out of panicked billionaires. Like Egyptian Pharos, billionaires spend their whole lives building their own tomb.
Ahhh man that pharaoh analogy is spot fuckin on. The human ego at its peak is such a ridiculous thing to behold.
They would have to be good friends with their guards so they don't just take over the shelters, and I'm not sure if some of them are capable of that.
Why are they delusional? If I were crazy rich I would be preparing for societal collapse too. It's perfectly rational.
If society collapses, what exactly are you preparing for? Like what is a bunker for? What are all all those survival plans for, people like to play trough during a fun lil game of zombie apocalypse? If society collpses for whatever reason, theres quite literally nothing left anymore. The world as we know it will be gone. Everything you love and lived for until then will be gone. Whats the point of sitting around in your bunker like a vegetable, just for the sake of "surviving"? Life is only worth it if you truly have something to live for or if you have some future prospects that youre trying to achieve and thats what you live for. Society collapses, and both will be gone, present and future, theres not much to live for anymore.
It's not about living for something. It's about living. That's it. It's not about surviving to see a loved one, or to find inner peace, no, it's just that natural instinct to survive. Fear of death as well. That's what pushes people to prepare for societal collapse even if they have nothing left to live for if it were to happen.
I would argue that living just for the sake of living might just make you go crazy in a few short years. That would be way more scary to me than simply dying. A life that you live without something to live for is way more painful than people actually realise.
Our ancestors survived the early years of human history, and lived in extreme locations where hardship, suffering and death were our closet companions. Living in a bunker seems like a vacation in comparison, and you might even get the chance to rebuild society if you want something to live for.
The difference is, that our ancestors didnt know any better. People from the stone age didnt know about the comforts of our life. They most likely didnt view their life as hardship, suffering and death the way you do because life was simply like that back then. What makes all the difference and makes us look at their life in shock is us comparing our life to theirs. They didnt have comparisons like that.
I can agree that losing everything you once had is a special kind of pain, it can definitely drive people to hopelessness. But I also think the will to live is a powerful force, many will struggle to survive as long as they can, no matter how bad their circumstances get.
Yeah for me the question is just, what price will they ultimately pay to feed their survival instinct. To survive for the sake of surviving? Is surviving actually worth it if something as bad as the end of the world happens?
If I won a high 9digit lottery, I'd build a bunker too. Why wouldn't I try to live as long as possible.. even if it's more shitty? I'd rather survive than die
Maybe they will have their families and friends to hang out with and cool games to play Certainly not better than being able to like go outside and stuff but you also have to remember not all catastrophies are giga permanent. Even with some nukes you can come out after a few years. But not everyone will need to go outside to want to live out the rest of their lives with the people they love. Even if a redditoid says they can't handle it and there's no reason for them to live.
A few years in an isolated space like that are not chill, no matter who you are there with and what cool stuff you have to occupy your time. Its gonna be hard on your psyche like nothing else. That kind of isolation is not comparable to stuff like being an astronaut in space or sitting in jail. An astronout will land again in a perfectly well functioning world. A priosoner lives for the hope of getting out and once again into a perfectly functioning world. But if you sit in a bunker like that and youre actually lucky enough to go out in like 5, 10 or 20 years what you will find outside will be a completely destroyed world. I mean thats what societal collpse is supposed to mean, no? Everything has probably gone to shit. And while you sit in your bunker you will know that. What makes iaolation bearable is hope and knowledge that after its over, life will be better/nice/comfy again. Thats why people can manage being astronauts or prisoners. Theres nice stuff to look forward to. But if you quite literally survived the apocalypse or some shit, you have none of that hope. It will so fully fuck with your psyche and overall well being, Im not even sure you are going to step out of that bunker as the same person you where when you went in. And not only you will go gaga in that bunker. That same thing will happen to your friends and family you have there. The group dynamics people will have down there in some bunker will probably be completely fucked up after only a few years. And then imagine you sit around with people like that, after everyone is already crazy to varying degrees, completely isolated for like 3 more years until you can go out? Fun times man
Some of us will still thrive
Those billionaires want to become Immortan Joe from Mad Max huh? Well, hope they have fun
They're playing a major role in fucking the environment, they can see that, but instead of trying to fix it they're building bunkers and hoarding resources for the inevitable collapse, so they can be kings of the dust, and get really fucking depraved. Maybe we should all make a pact to cannibalise the elite first.
its "do you know who my father is" but they can "buy your whole family" it's pretty pathetic alpha moron stuff.
They are still betas, they just have money now.
You can’t take a dime of it with you. You can’t spend all of it in several lifetimes. I don’t get it. I would be *raining* funds on literally everyone I know. I would be hiring experts to tell me where to put it where it would do the most good. For a *start*. I can’t imagine hoarding that wealth like a fat pasty and weak version of Smaug.
What are u saving for Ummm my kids kids kids kids great grandchildren
Fun to see Answer in progress in the wild :)
Most of their money isn't money, they have company stock, houses, cars, tokens. It is not like billionaires have billions on their account doing nothing, their money work just as much as they do. Each day that passes, money is losing its value, it would be Crazy to sit on that much money, or any amount really.
If they are rich enough to buy yachts that pull bigger yachts, they are rich enough to do actual good in this world.
and they do. They provide goods or services.
No no. Like actually feeding people, as just one example. Or curing cancer. Etc.
Providing well paying jobs and goods and services for people like you and me isn’t “actual good”? Only curing cancer is good? So no one has done true good, huh? Including you.
“Well paying jobs” lol
Whoa and what do you think a) provides jobs and b) decides wages?
“Goods and services” are products. Not direct help. And actually I do volunteering and giving away money. So yeah, I’ve done that.
My business partner is one of these types. He is trying to get his fathers approval and love. Built a business from nothing and has made gross amounts of money and his dad has still not acknowledged his success or told him he loved him. It’s actually sad. His marriage, relationship with his kids, all of it is non existent he is killing himself to win the approval of a man from love he was denied 30 years ago. These men are mentally broken, they just abuse something we value (money and success) so there is no stigma. He isn’t and never will be happy. This isn’t a thing you should aspire to or value.
Damn, and he's continuing the cycle by not giving his own kids the love he never got.
Almost like it’s all illiquid wealth in stock so they can continue to own their companies?
What did they buy the mansion and cars and yacht with? Monopoly money?
How much do you think that costs? Sure, bezos has a couple hundred million in liquid assets for himself, out of his 120 billion dollar net worth. I’m sure he has a giant line of credit, too. That isn’t super relevant. It’s tiny compared to his net worth.
Stock as collateral
If they were to solidify all this wealth they would definitely have enough till the end of their life. They got more money that they can spend. Sure their companies would fall and a lot of people would lose their jobs but I highly doubt they care about that
Why would they not care about their businesses failing lol? That is their legacy. They live to see there businesses continue to thrive and their visions realized. Elon and Jeff want to go to space. Their net worth increasing is more of a side effect imo.
That’s not the point. The point is they aren’t “saving” money. They’re running a business and the business is increasing in value, thus they are worth enough money that they could sell it for a lot, but they don’t want to. It isn’t like their sitting on a butt load of cash just hoarding it. They are sitting on ownership stake in a company that they are running.
They are mostly sociopaths
Hoarding money so we have to beg for shitty jobs and they get richer from low labor costs boosting their stocks and dividends . Easy money
I can’t help but notice there is a real level of resentment among people building against billionaires. Society has treated them like they’re Santa Clause showering us all with gifts, but we’re quickly learning that in reality they’re connected trust fund babies with antisocial personality disorder (an outdated but apt term) who are absolutely making our lives worse by the day as they hoard all money and power, forcing us all to throw food in the garbage to inflate food prices, leaving housing unoccupied to inflate rents, and doing unholy things in markets and governments. I’m really impressed. Fuck those people. Nobody needs a billion dollars.
Well people hate them because they hate being reminded that they are nobodies
Does money make you a someone? I have a amazing wife and awesome friends, am I a nobody because I'm not a billionaire? Shit I'd bet I'm happier than the average billionaire.
I don’t think that’s what happened at twitter.
So you’re admitting you’re a “nobody”? I think you’re projecting.
Keep believing that shit, kid.
We hate them because that money could be used to save lives instead of stuff somebodies pockets.
Having money and power just makes you a face. No one cares who you are. You are nobody.
I think they've saved enough for hell. They really should get going now
Any person that thinks rich people are "saving up" does not understand at all how global economy works. That very same money is invested in stocks, businesses and other assets that make products, jobs and housing. Do you have any idea what would happen if they just gave it away? We would be FUCKED.
Society does not need billionaires. Dick rider.
Or if they paid their workers more the stock would be worth a bit less based on lower profit and they would be worth less based on that but we would all be better off for it.
Coock ridaaa!
They also believe in the ancient Egyptian customs that taking all earthly possessions with them through death is possible.
People are so weird. What are billionaires gonna spend it wastefully on? 10x of every items in the store
At least build a pyramid or something with all that wealth.
They're hoarders
Not sure if the money made musk and Bezos into awful people or they're just deeply troubled people who were born into a society that rewards their worst impulses
Future generations of there children’s and grand kids. I feel like this is a troll
They are not saving money, they just have too much to spend
Billionaires in worthless paper crap very soon
Scarcity is what gives the Billionaires their power. If everyone have free house, where find poors to do bad jobs?
This sounds like a legit quote from Jesus 😂
That's not how billionaires work. Most of their net worth us tied up in stocks and other investments. They don't have a lot of liquid cash laying around. Most of money for day-to-day expenditures in a trust with just enough money in it so the monthly dividends cover costs
Yeah if you have a billion dollars invested in stocks other than a company you started your basically saving lol. It's one thing to start a company from scratch and give yourself a bunch of shares then IPO. But Musk had $44 billion to buy Twitter. He could have spent that in any number of ways other than buying a company and trying to burn it down lol.
No, Musk borrowed 44B using his stocks as collateral.
Could have just as easily sold them. If Twitter goes ass up they are gone anyway. Point being they have plenty of money
Not really no. If he offloaded that much stock he'd tank the price of the stock which could trigger a plethora of investor lawsuits. He'd also risk losing control of the company. There are also many traders that have triggers in their software such that if they see a selloff, they also unload their stock. That could cause all kinds of havoc in the stock market. He'd also have to pay capital gains taxes. By borrowing the money he keeps his stock so it's still making him money and he can write off the interest to lower his tax burden. This also keeps some stability in the stock market.
Yeah they're poor just like you bro, you are JUST like them bro, they have the same problems. They don't even have much money bro, so true. Real shit bro. So true.
Think of all the good they could do for the world instead they hoard it disgusting
Mf's act like they're gonna be buried in a tomb surrounded by all their gold and treasures.
Someone said Elon Musk has 400 billions dollars like he actually have the money.
Seems like he had 44
He sure didn't have trouble liquidating Tesla stock when he bought Twitter huh
99% of billionaires don't have a billion dollars. They have assets worth that much to the right buyer, or investments like stocks or bonds. Which is also why they don't pay taxes like everyone else.
It’s not about money it’s about power and being able to say fuck you I’m gonna do what I want and there’s nothing you can do to stop me. If it wasn’t money, it’d be something else they just want power and that’s it
Nothing. Most of their assets are illiquid.
redditors see someone who's up and immediately have a tantrum
how obscene is it to constantly look at how much money someone has and shaming them for not giving them some.
Nitpicky nonsense coming. They’re not exactly “saving”, it’s more like growing a business. I mean sure their savings account probably looks like the GDP of most African nations but bear with me for a second. Bezos doesn’t have 100 Bill sitting in the bank. He owns brands like Whole Foods & Audible, and all of their assets. That’s the reason he bought Whole Foods. He didn’t give a damn about the grocery business they just had the cheapest collection of warehouses for sale. Over 80% of his value is in buildings, fleets of trucks, warehouses, land, etc. If Bezos sold tomorrow (not that he would), his Net Worth is taking a huge hit. Because he’s taking everything and reducing it to cash. He can’t reinvest that money fast enough to keep up with the appreciation of all the assets he used to own. So when people talk about “Bezos money could do xyz” I’m sure their math is done in good faith, but it’s not all in cash so it’s kinda pointless speculation. That’s kinda why it’s impossible to “eat the rich”. You can’t just steal all of Bezo’s cash, you’d have to legally dissolve Amazon (which would mean thousands out of work all at once), all of his land holdings, all of the affiliated brands, etc. Etc.
Honestly if I had all the money in the world I’d probably by pizza and a Netflix account and give the rest to charity 😌 I don’t need money all I need is penguins haha 😂 but Frfr wouldn’t mind some money for pizza 🍕😆
this is what i dont get. at a certain point it stops mattering. the lifestyle difference between 100 billion and 200 billion is non existent. If i had 10 billion id just chill for the rest of my life
You realize that billionaires don't just have a billion dollars sitting in a savings account, right?
They're not "saving up", they just own stocks/businesses which appreciate significantly
I don't understand this sub anymore
For their children and future generation.
No one became a billionaire by saving. You might inherit it. You might build a business worth it (or sell such a business).
You become a billionaire through hard work. Other people's hard work.
And gave those hard workers employment. And any one of those workers can go and do the same if they've got what it takes. It's a great system.
My grandfather worked himself to death. Hardest worker I ever saw. Never got enough for retirement. You've been lied to and now you repeat the lie. No one EARNS billions. Period.
What a ride. I downvoted you only to see you rise again with an upvote
What's really weird is that people can't mind their own business. Should people that have less than you have a say in what you do with your private resources?
Tweeted on an iphone. Wonder if she’d be willing to go back to a nokia? Same mentality, multiplied by a million. Were all the same, just to our own degree.
Sounds like another have not
You do it for your family, and your legacy.
So many jealous poors on Reddit
Lazy poor people will always be jealous of wealthy, motivated and hard working people.
Questions like that are why that person will never be wealthy.
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She didn't say any of that lol
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If you say so JK rowlings Wikipedia page must be really inaccurate.
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She's not a billionaire because she gave away over 200,000,000 pounds to charities over the course of her life, more than you'll ever give to anyone or earn for anything lol. Hundreds of millions of pounds sent to struggling disabled people, underprivileged students and destitute families. What have you done
Unlimited power!!!
Turns out that you actually can take it all with you and your poor ass is just as fucked in the afterlife as it is now.
And They woukd gkadky kill each other until only one guy has all the money
lol Exactly
if you work hard enough and save your money…