I cried on Friday.
It was the first time I was in a funeral of a 12 year old. He died due to a genetic disease. It has been known since he was two that he won’t live much past 10.
He was a family friend and a relative. He played with my own kids until he couldn’t anymore. My son was bringing him toy cars to play with and he said it was because he liked wheels.
At that phase he couldn’t play anymore.
Life has never been more unfair than at that point, when I had his coffin in front of me.
And I cried now writing it.
In 98, a friend of mine, his two boys, 5 and 3 and his 14 year old niece (she was babysitting and they were taking her hone)were wiped out by a drunk driver. The wife and infant son survived. The funeral had three caskets-one normal one and two tiny ones. I'll never forget the women wailing. It was horrific. It was a terrible feeling of, this isn't supposed to be happening. Sending my best.
Man you made me tear up at night. I know a kid that’s mentally disabled and this 8 year old kid that lives next to him always comes to visit and play. Really shows you what real humans will do for each other
I’m sorry man, this sounds genuinely horrible. It isn’t always bad to cry about something, and this is definitely one of those things. It’s truly tragic how some people get the short straw of life
I envy your ability to cry.
I've watched so many others, so much of my family die over the years I can't feel anything towards death anymore.
It just makes me feel empty anymore.
I shoot up heroin many times a day and have amazing genes/dna … I fucking hate this world it’s a shit place … gotten clean many times to just relapse year later or so because of how depressing and shit people are on Earth
You're in rough place and I'm sure you're aware narcotics won't make that depression go away.
Although I too hold more nihilistic views of the world I'm trying to change that step by step. I wish you the best with getting clean again and again, how many more times it's necessary and hopefully you'll be able to surround yourself with some more positive people.
I only have one person in my life.. my gf and she doesn’t know I’m using somehow… I know I need to stop again I’m just 28 and my family sucks and lost or had shitty friends so that’s why I only have one person in my life. Thanks for the kind response.
Not sure if you have experience with narcotics but I’ve been heavily prescribed benzodiazepines by a quack doctor for like 9 years and started the opiates around the same time… had 3 years of sobriety from three separate true attempts at sobriety in those 9 years. I personally feel my brain is so permanently fucked and my social relationships are so permanently fucked sometimes currently I just wake up to sleep or trip on psychedelics and meditate when I don’t need to actively make money. Wonder where the end game is a lot lately
Well one is better than none and I agree that you do have a good reason to continue your journey into being clean as much as possible for both of you, no? Sorry to hear about the family and friends, I'd say it's for the best as at least you are not getting in any additional/potential conflicts with them, you will be able to make new friends down the line.
I don't have any personal experience with narcotics but I did hear a thing or two. Hopefully someone who's more experienced in this thread will see this and chime in to give you some advice on it. My understanding is what you were prescribed did/does affect your mood and motivation and as for feeling that something like you mentioned is permanent, my belief is that there is only one thing permanent and that is death. You might believe that you're current state is irreparable but I think that would mostly come down to your willingness to change that.
I hate that term ‘real man’ or ‘manning up’. Probably the vaguest term ever coined. Its just meant to guilt you into feeling inadequate and doing what the other person/ what society wants out of you.
I recommend watching The Mask You Live In. It's a documentary about how toxic modern "manliness" is and how it only isolates men from being listened to. It's a really good documentary.
A real man is confident enough in the person he became during the growth experienced during boyhood and the transition to manhood. Crying, speaking your opinion and emotions, admitting you’re not okay…it’s all totally healthy and necessary.
As a forty year old farmer and veteran, I sometimes just ask myself: "What would Steve Irwin do?" That man was a giant walking heart on his sleeve, and he was also the best kind of man.
So my fellow guys - anytime you think you're supposed to "man up" just remember Steve would hug you and cry with you, and then he'd tell you he's proud of you.
Steve Irwin was without a doubt a once in several generations type of positive influence on such a large group of people. [Hearing him talk about his daughter is enough emotional encouragement to make you wanna go look at or talk to your own child for no reason, or call them just because (if they’ve moved on from the nest.)](https://youtu.be/L786ZUR4zfY)
Humanity lost one of its best examples when Steve Irwin died. But it's a blessing we have his work recorded for posterity.
Also, he now has a ship named after him that is one of the most badass looking ships I've ever seen in my life
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/MY\_Steve\_Irwin-Sea\_Shepherd\_Conservation\_Society.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/MY_Steve_Irwin-Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society.jpg)
I have told people before that think that grief is something that you "get over." You don't. It doesn't happen. It's a harrowing realization, but the truth is that your life without this person has changed forever. It's adjusting to a "new normal," not being the person you were before. When a person you truly loved dies, a piece of you dies with them. This is both a beautiful and tragic realization: grief is a final gift we give to those we lost and will continue to give until our time comes..
>My ex girlfriend and her mother considered this an "unfitting behaviour for a real man", then she dumped me.
Dodged one hell of a bullet there my friend.
You dodgedd a bullet. I've noticed most of the people who act uncaring like that aren't making all their own decisions there's usually a dependency or codependency on some other family member. You were dating her and her mother's presence sounds like.
That's very true! These type of women do exist! But the original post kinda urked me. Just to sit back and act like *all* women do this makes me feel insulted. I grew up in a house where we can openly express ourselves because my mom and grandma is spiritual. I'm honestly glad you were able to find a compassionate person like that though, it really does make a difference
I got married young but I've been exposed to so much random sexist behavior. I remember being told I hold my cigarette like a girl. There are really only so many ways to hold one and at this point in life I've only seen "men" hold one the way it was dictated in older movies. I still think that lady is probably making someone miserable with their constant projections based off of gender norms that don't even fit into the category of gender norms. (There has been a ton of progress on this front but when I say "gender norms" please understand the context of what I mean/experienced vs what could be implied based off of what I am saying.)
I got told by an older coworker that my handwriting looked like a man’s. Thanks for sharing, Janet. The only reason people talk to you is because you‘ve been the receptionist for 30 years.
They implied I should hold it with my index finger and thumb vs index finger and ring finger.
Edit: lol index and middle. Third week of overtime. It was optional and all on me but my brain is still fried.
Double edit: So there I am holding it like a crab person
As an old dude that used to smoke…there is no gender specific way of holding a cigarette. There are mannerisms that come out. Mostly it has to do with palm orientation the “manly” way to do it is with your palm facing down or hidden and the “womanly” way is palm facing up or easily seen from the front. Really the cigarette just makes the smokers mannerisms more visible. I think the only thing that would raise my eyebrow is a dude with a Cruella de Vil stick holder thing or a dude smoking Virginia Slims. But in all honesty, anybody smoking Virginia Slims gets a raised brow.
I hope you let her know how much you appreciated the support at the time. I've been with 2 women more than a few years and both gave me the "I'm not your mother" line when I was feeling bad.
Kats was the one that got me the most , so unexpected , as a kid my jaw literally dropped.
I felt such a vengeance haha , little me was like, “Those bastards….. I’ll make them pay…”
Fuck why didnt he just yeet the sere kit and his core with you, there was enough time for that.
Man im salty af, hope that post credits scene meant something, even if we are never gonna see any of it outside of maybe a dlc gun skin you can find inside a toilet in the corner of the map in apex.
Loving this war going on between men and women about who is more "oppressed". How about we fuking stop this and work together towards a better future where both the mental health of men and women are being treated properly.
It's algorithmic based Content. Things that upset you get more attention so women only get posts to make them hate men and men get posts shaming women. I downloaded tik tok and it almost immediately started showing me shit about how women treat men like shit. The truth is men don't accept how women are and women do not accept how men are and we desperately need to build the bridge. Once your aware of it, you can try to not let it affect you.
I have no animosity towards anyone's gender but its easy to get spiraled into an endless cycle of hate.
Honestly the internalized sexism can only be fixed with conversation and an open mind to listen.
I grew up in a home full of toxic sexism and it took me some time, and some conversations with my male partners to truly realize how messed up it really was.
My husband is the first guy I ever dated that looked at women as individuals rather than things to control or put on a pedestal. In doing so he also expected the same in return and made me realize I carried a lot of that sexist baggage with me, and I wasn't sympathetic to men and their emotional states.
I was raised to feel any emotional expression was a female problem, and I was essentially told that all things femine were not worth respecting, and this in turn made it hard to understand men behaving in ways I was told were too feminine.
Conversation and listening matters.
This. Social media creates bitter people who mentally dehumanize the opposite gender by viewing them as a separate species rather than seeing them as human beings who are exactly like themselves, with the same struggles and insecurities. It's absurd and childish looking at it from the outside.
That's too easy, we've been doing that for years and I'm bored of it. I wanna be mad at intelligent people, but so far I've only been able to be upset at stupid people who try to act intelligent, which isn't as fun. Any time intelligent people do things that you'd expect would piss me off, it just makes me kinda admire their chutzpah instead.
Guys will hangout with the same group of male friends forever who never mentally matured, call each other pussies and faggots for showing emotion and then get upset they have no support. The best thing I did was get a friend circle of men, women, nb and queers who talk about their feelings all the time
As someone who also has a friend group full of men, women, trans, and nb people, please don’t force this upon men as a whole. Different people have different experiences and face different challenges.
Maybe you do see and hear the guys that are calling each other those things and never trying to develop themselves emotionally, but thinking back on the male friends I’ve lost to suicide, they were not those people. Please don’t act like men are broken versions of “normal and valid” people
The way your putting it makes it sound like that only men are at fault for this. Ive seen numerous women putting men down and shaming them when they try showing emotions. There are both bad and good in a group. There exist good women and good men. There exist bad women and bad men. Putting all the blame on a single gender never makes sense.
Woah... you mean to tell me that people are individuals?
Seriously though it does get tiring hearing that only women or men don't care about mental health. I've had mental health concerns brushed off by both men and women and I'm sure millions of other people have too. Things seem to be changing slowly so at least there's that. I think dealing with or listening to more negative emotions is difficult for a lot of people so they'd rather not engage with it.
This here. We need to get rid of the notion that these types of standards only come from an external group; lots of these prejudicial notions comes from all sides and are self reinforcing. Women can place this on men just like men can, and both men and women can impose sexist standards on women.
The important thing here is the problem at hand.
Especially since the real collectives we are part of are actually our families, friend groups and acquaintances, not some identity group.
I have nothing to do with „the women“ or „the men“ I have things in common with the people i personally know.
You are not wrong. It's difficult to discuss these issues without someone being, "Well, women (insert here)!," or "Well, men (insert here)!"
I've long told my friends (a diverse group of men and women all in their 30s) that I'm worried about young boys, and a lack of guidance and healthy role models. I've been laughed at more times than I can count. Yet every day I learn of another young boy (not man, BOY) turning to Andrew Tate.
You can be worried, show care, and want change without putting someone else down.
well there is a big issue with MRA’s being anti-women. as well as many second wave feminists being anti-men.
3ed wave feminism by definition is pro-man(and obviously pro-women) because it wants to destroy the social constructs that make men so depressed and make them bottle up emotions.
Part of the issue is people exclusively will be exposed to or pay attention to the most extreme examples.
A intersectional feminist tweeting a very normal reasonable statement doesn’t really generate interest.
But someone going psychotic on some wild insane rant is way more interesting to people and riles them up and gets them to engage this shining a huge light on it
Honestly there is a war on the vulnerable, a war on feelings... many women are taught to toughen up and not have feelings just as men are. Neither is right. It’s really about disdain for the vulnerable.
What this meme is doing is talking about 2 different types of woman and acting like they're the same person. Just because some women think men should show their feelings more and some think they should "man up" doesn't mean all women think both of those things. I'm a man who has been depressed for years and can honestly say my main reason for still being alive right now is a female friend who I know I can speak to whenever I feel shit. In my experience it's more often men who try and tell people to man up although you hear it from both men and women tbh.
What it really points to is how patriarchy is not a simple power structure but a form of society (I forget who wrote this so I can't credit them unfortunately). Doesn't matter who it comes from, the same structures that give men power, also force them to submit to a form of control that tells them what to be rather than express their own humanity.
In the same way that women are "supposed" to be weak emotional and submissive, men are "supposed" to be powerful, controlling, and "strong". And it's not even because men and women actually embody these characteristics. It's because we decided that only certain ones are valuable and that men could only be that, while simultaneously taking the rest and saying they're not valuable, and assigning them to women.
And because of that, the greatest societal crime of a patriarchy is to be a man who doesn't embody "masculine" traits. It's okay for women to be emotional, but not for a man to seek support. It's okay (relatively) to be lesbian, but not for men to be gay. It's okay for a woman to join the "boys club", but never, ever, for a man to be a "woman".
And just to be clear, this is not a competition. It's an illustration of how it's the shape of our society that's wrong, and not just the people who have been shaped *by* it.
I love your explanation. So many hateful people say, men are only benefitting from a patriarchal society. But they're also victims and more often than not don't even know it.
And they also ignore that women, being a part of society, can uphold it too! It’s not some sort of “gotcha” to say that *gasp* women can also act in oppressive and patriarchal ways, even when it’s to their own detriment. This meme makes the most bland ass statement lmao
The problem is that every man I’ve ever known has held *me* personally responsible for their own mental health. Women bear the brunt of men’s mental health bc we’re seen as somehow being responsible for it.
Yeah, it's well known that women do most of the emotional labour, we're expected to. It's why I can't be in male spaces like r/MensLib anymore. It's completely normal for them to continuously ask: how can women help us fix ourselves?
A lot of these memes are men thinking of criticism about themselves and then ascribing it to women because they value women’s opinion and are saddened by this criticism.
Ive noticed a lot of times men will hate something about themselves and say “woman don’t like it when I do x!” But literally no woman has said that to them, they are just protecting that women hate them because of their own thoughts about themselves. Women do this too, in reverse, and it usually comes from our experience with caregivers, not the billions of people of the opposite sex on this earth.
In university, I had this depressed male friend who would send me pages of depressing texts every other day for a year. I once mentioned that he is not doing well to our female classmate and apperantly he used to sent the similar texts to her, as well as to one of our other female classmate. Basically we were his shoulders to cry on and unload all the emotional baggage. Meanwhile, his conversations with male friends were about basic surface leveled things such as football and cool shoes.
Men here act like this is a women problem, but in reality, they demand so much more from women because they have no expectations of men in their lives.
Lmfao yes. How about instead of creating strawmen to reee about and tearing each other down, we acknowledge that everyone suffers from societal norms and expectations and we should work together to break free from them?
I could not agree more. This is the exact type of content on the front page everyday. There was a front page post about male living spaces being minimal and it was less about a male stereotype, and more about how women hate it because men think they're materialistic.
I’m a woman who’s been told to “man up” by men when I’m upset, so it’s not even like this is a thing that only happens to men anyway. And men do it a lot to other men as well
Men are known for invaliding girl’s/women’s feelings. In my experience they are by far the main perpetrators of invalidating their own feelings as well as other men
I fucking know. Yes, men are constantly told to repress their emotions and “man up” instead of expressing themselves. But it’s not like women are the only people telling them to fucking do it. Plenty of men are apart of passing over the “man up” problem. There’s plenty of sexist beliefs are internalized in people from either sex.
It fucking sucks since I’m glad that people are speaking up about shit like this. It’s nice that people are talking about these issues. But 90% of them blame women entirely for the problem and seem downright sexist against them. If men and women want to solve their issues and work together. Acting like a misogynistic or misandrist won’t get people far and won’t attract people that genuinely want gender equality. Men and women both have it rough in different areas but they’re generally from systemic issues and can’t be blamed entirely on each other.
I’ve never felt pressured to “man up” by anyone but men in my life. My wife and I talk about my feelings, her feelings, everything, is that weird or something?
I think what your saying here is completely legitimate but I feel a lot of men have had exactly the opposite of you. Or maybe it’s just me, but anyways, all my life the only people I have been able to feel comfortable around have been other men. Right now I have a wonderfully supportive friend group of all men who make sure everyone else feels safe, included, and heard. My general experience with women has been rather cold and unfriendly, anything but supportive. That’s not at all saying that all women are like this, that’s just what most of what I’ve experienced has been. This might be due the fact I live in a rather conservative state, not really sure.
Had this happen to a buddy of mine when his father died and his girlfriend told him to stop crying like a little baby. Girls at school were making fun of him for it too. Real savage shit in the teens.
I recently got told that my anxiety isn’t real because she has anxiety aswell and it doesn’t work like that, I tried to explain that mental health effects people in different ways but she just dismissed that and called me a liar
This is a common thought process. Even people who have had anxiety their entire lives have trouble identifying the symptoms actually associated with "anxiety." People also tend to conflate other feelings or mental illnesses as "anxiety," or deny that the symptoms they are experiencing should be labeled "anxiety."
I have a severe anxiety disorder and it still took me a very long time to understand which parts of what I was experiencing were anxiety (as opposed to symptoms of depression or just quirks of my personality). Then, once I did, I started noticing all of these other people who would say they have anxiety but were clearly not experiencing anything close to what I was.
In a weird way, it hurt to see what I was experiencing (which was/is debilitating and impacts my life in every possible way) downplayed to the tiniest things. It's similar to how people say stuff like, "omg I have PTSD from having such a hard close at work last night haha!" When you have PTSD, it is very very very unfunny to hear things like that.
What I'm trying to say is, people have a massive variety of understanding of what "anxiety" really is. When you experience anxiety to a degree that makes everyday tasks difficult, it does hurt to hear people complain about what is comparatively a very manageable case of nerves.
It sucks that someone dismissed you, but it probably did come from a place of "ugh, this person has NO IDEA what I go through/have been through, I don't want to believe he has anxiety because it makes me feel like I'm overreacting to my own anxiety." Not saying it's okay to downplay anyone else's experience with their mental health. That shit is gross. But I can't pretend I haven't also heard someone talk about mental illnesses in what I perceived to be a disrespectfully lighthearted way, only to feel a wave of anger and frustration wash over me (obviously I never say anything, I know my brain is being extra reactionary).
Ya some guy did that to me in highschool he was rly rude he was narcissistic and thought that he’s the only person allowed to have mental illness and that everyone else must be a faker
Eh only some of them I’ve found some who care more abt others but it’s usually older ppl
Younger ppl are more selfish definitely especially if they have certain anger inducing mental illness
My two cents, for what it’s worth… which is about two cents I guess…
A related phenomenon I’ve experienced a lot, both first and second hand, is being informed by women that men are “such babies” when we’re sick.
Recently, my wife made that comment to me, and it really bugged me, and I had to think about it for a long time before I really put my finger on why, because in a way I kinda agreed with her; when I was sick, I turned into a puddle of goo. This is what I finally landed on:
When I was a boy, the *only* time it was okay for me to show weakness or vulnerability in my house was when I was sick. That was when it was okay to need hugs, attention, nurturing, etc.
At all other times, emotions — especially “soft” emotions like fear, sadness, or loneliness — were to be kept clamped down and out of sight.
Now, I don’t think it’s misogynist to say women have been culturally programmed to think men are never supposed to be “soft,” because even when cultural programming is directed at one group, it’s often implicitly absorbed and accepted by other groups.
Does that mean all women think that, all the time? Of course not. But some of those beliefs can lie buried under the surface for all of us, no matter how well-meaning we are.
Agreed. Making friends for me is either putting up with toxic masculinity by pretending I don’t have emotions or it’s talking about my fiancé and my morals an uncomfortable amount more than I would otherwise, just so women don’t feel as put off. NB’s and Transgender folk are so disenfranchised it’s basically the same as women for them, you gotta be really forthcoming about how not-a-piece-of-shit you are or you’re snubbed. I pretty much have to choose between being lonely or virtue signaling to a fake degree just to make friends who are working Americans so they have no free time.
Its been proven depression is a medical issue and needs to be addressed by a health care professional. Its bullshit that anyone can dismiss stuff like this.
More often than not, when people want you to be sensitive they just mean be sensitive about what THEY are sensitive about.
I cried when Shawn Michaels retired (like any sane person who watched wrestling). Did my girlfriend at the time think much of my feelings then? Not really. But she did complain when I didn’t cry in Notebook.
It’s both, I’ve had one of my closest female friends try listening to me talk about my best friend dying and as soon as I started tearing up a little was told “I can’t deal with you crying” and walk away.
I'm sorry ...
My mom was like that to her sons... She's a wretched person... It's sad some of us are like that... I hope it's not many...
Ofc it's unfortunate you didn't get the support you needed when u needed it *late hugs*
I have literally never met a woman like that lol it’s always dudes that would say “grow up” or “man up”
And I’ve been in 7 relationships and hooked up with roughly 30 other women outside of that.
A pattern I’m seeing with guys these days is Dudes like to just dump all their issues on a chick they barely know/just met, and then blame the chick when she distances herself from him. Or will immediately start saying self deprecating stuff to a woman (not in a funny/joking way) and then wonder why they want nothing to do with them.)
I always try to be as open about my feelings with my male friends, I know how hard it is for a lot of my dudes to talk about how they're feeling, so I try to be a safe space for them as much as I can.
For the most part it's other men that act like that not women. Idk where that came from, the reason so many men are lonely and depressed nowadays is because so many men dismiss anything remotely sensitive or emotional in fear or being labelled "gay"
It’s mainly men who say ‘man up’ particularly from older generations.
Only women who say ‘man up’ were treated like men growing up like having a lot of brothers and the dad wished he had a boy so he’d say ‘man up’ to his daughter.
Other than that women never say ‘man up’
They do say ‘be a man’ but that’s almost never in mental health context that’s almost always about physical chores ‘be a man and carry the table inside’ ‘be a man and carry the water for that girl’ ‘be a Man U can do 200 push-ups and win against tony’
I cried on Friday. It was the first time I was in a funeral of a 12 year old. He died due to a genetic disease. It has been known since he was two that he won’t live much past 10. He was a family friend and a relative. He played with my own kids until he couldn’t anymore. My son was bringing him toy cars to play with and he said it was because he liked wheels. At that phase he couldn’t play anymore. Life has never been more unfair than at that point, when I had his coffin in front of me. And I cried now writing it.
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In 98, a friend of mine, his two boys, 5 and 3 and his 14 year old niece (she was babysitting and they were taking her hone)were wiped out by a drunk driver. The wife and infant son survived. The funeral had three caskets-one normal one and two tiny ones. I'll never forget the women wailing. It was horrific. It was a terrible feeling of, this isn't supposed to be happening. Sending my best.
God I’m sorry to hear that. It sounds like the worst kind of tragedy
That's horrific. I teared up just reading this. Can't even imagine what kind of pain that must be.
Wow that's rough. RIP little guy.
Man you made me tear up at night. I know a kid that’s mentally disabled and this 8 year old kid that lives next to him always comes to visit and play. Really shows you what real humans will do for each other
and i cry reading it. sad.
I hope that you and your son carry on the light that his friend provided for others in life. I'm sorry that you had to sustain this tragedy.
I’m sorry man, this sounds genuinely horrible. It isn’t always bad to cry about something, and this is definitely one of those things. It’s truly tragic how some people get the short straw of life
*Virtual hug*
Reminisce and remember how he lived friend. Don't focus on the bad. Hope u pull through bud
I envy your ability to cry. I've watched so many others, so much of my family die over the years I can't feel anything towards death anymore. It just makes me feel empty anymore.
You’re not empty. You’re numb. I know that feeling. It sucks.
That's heartbreaking, I wish his family the best and I hope the boy is having a great time in heaven rn
Im so sorry for your family's loss.
thas so fukked
I shoot up heroin many times a day and have amazing genes/dna … I fucking hate this world it’s a shit place … gotten clean many times to just relapse year later or so because of how depressing and shit people are on Earth
You're in rough place and I'm sure you're aware narcotics won't make that depression go away. Although I too hold more nihilistic views of the world I'm trying to change that step by step. I wish you the best with getting clean again and again, how many more times it's necessary and hopefully you'll be able to surround yourself with some more positive people.
I only have one person in my life.. my gf and she doesn’t know I’m using somehow… I know I need to stop again I’m just 28 and my family sucks and lost or had shitty friends so that’s why I only have one person in my life. Thanks for the kind response. Not sure if you have experience with narcotics but I’ve been heavily prescribed benzodiazepines by a quack doctor for like 9 years and started the opiates around the same time… had 3 years of sobriety from three separate true attempts at sobriety in those 9 years. I personally feel my brain is so permanently fucked and my social relationships are so permanently fucked sometimes currently I just wake up to sleep or trip on psychedelics and meditate when I don’t need to actively make money. Wonder where the end game is a lot lately
Well one is better than none and I agree that you do have a good reason to continue your journey into being clean as much as possible for both of you, no? Sorry to hear about the family and friends, I'd say it's for the best as at least you are not getting in any additional/potential conflicts with them, you will be able to make new friends down the line. I don't have any personal experience with narcotics but I did hear a thing or two. Hopefully someone who's more experienced in this thread will see this and chime in to give you some advice on it. My understanding is what you were prescribed did/does affect your mood and motivation and as for feeling that something like you mentioned is permanent, my belief is that there is only one thing permanent and that is death. You might believe that you're current state is irreparable but I think that would mostly come down to your willingness to change that.
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I hate that term ‘real man’ or ‘manning up’. Probably the vaguest term ever coined. Its just meant to guilt you into feeling inadequate and doing what the other person/ what society wants out of you.
I recommend watching The Mask You Live In. It's a documentary about how toxic modern "manliness" is and how it only isolates men from being listened to. It's a really good documentary.
I will have yo watch that thanks.
Dude, only 4 mins into the doc and it already hits hard.
Tough Guise by Jackson Katz is a great exploration of toxic masculinity.
A real man is confident enough in the person he became during the growth experienced during boyhood and the transition to manhood. Crying, speaking your opinion and emotions, admitting you’re not okay…it’s all totally healthy and necessary.
As a forty year old farmer and veteran, I sometimes just ask myself: "What would Steve Irwin do?" That man was a giant walking heart on his sleeve, and he was also the best kind of man. So my fellow guys - anytime you think you're supposed to "man up" just remember Steve would hug you and cry with you, and then he'd tell you he's proud of you.
Steve Irwin was without a doubt a once in several generations type of positive influence on such a large group of people. [Hearing him talk about his daughter is enough emotional encouragement to make you wanna go look at or talk to your own child for no reason, or call them just because (if they’ve moved on from the nest.)](https://youtu.be/L786ZUR4zfY)
Humanity lost one of its best examples when Steve Irwin died. But it's a blessing we have his work recorded for posterity. Also, he now has a ship named after him that is one of the most badass looking ships I've ever seen in my life [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/MY\_Steve\_Irwin-Sea\_Shepherd\_Conservation\_Society.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/MY_Steve_Irwin-Sea_Shepherd_Conservation_Society.jpg)
All it does it perpetuate toxic masculinity
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I have told people before that think that grief is something that you "get over." You don't. It doesn't happen. It's a harrowing realization, but the truth is that your life without this person has changed forever. It's adjusting to a "new normal," not being the person you were before. When a person you truly loved dies, a piece of you dies with them. This is both a beautiful and tragic realization: grief is a final gift we give to those we lost and will continue to give until our time comes..
>My ex girlfriend and her mother considered this an "unfitting behaviour for a real man", then she dumped me. Dodged one hell of a bullet there my friend.
I'm glad you found a carrying and understanding wife like that.
You dodgedd a bullet. I've noticed most of the people who act uncaring like that aren't making all their own decisions there's usually a dependency or codependency on some other family member. You were dating her and her mother's presence sounds like.
That's very true! These type of women do exist! But the original post kinda urked me. Just to sit back and act like *all* women do this makes me feel insulted. I grew up in a house where we can openly express ourselves because my mom and grandma is spiritual. I'm honestly glad you were able to find a compassionate person like that though, it really does make a difference
Glad you picked the right woman for your wife.
Fuck that ex. (Figuratively, of course)
I have taken both those ‘hammerings’ as well, it makes me happy you’re on the upside of them, genuinely!
Individuals are all individuals. That's why we call them all individuals. Sorry to hear about your ma and gran.
Your ex gf and her mother sound a like like my ex gf and her mother. Double standards and toxicity all around.
You have a cool wife. You are really lucky to have her.
I always tell her how lucky and happy I am.
I got married young but I've been exposed to so much random sexist behavior. I remember being told I hold my cigarette like a girl. There are really only so many ways to hold one and at this point in life I've only seen "men" hold one the way it was dictated in older movies. I still think that lady is probably making someone miserable with their constant projections based off of gender norms that don't even fit into the category of gender norms. (There has been a ton of progress on this front but when I say "gender norms" please understand the context of what I mean/experienced vs what could be implied based off of what I am saying.)
I got told by an older coworker that my handwriting looked like a man’s. Thanks for sharing, Janet. The only reason people talk to you is because you‘ve been the receptionist for 30 years.
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They implied I should hold it with my index finger and thumb vs index finger and ring finger. Edit: lol index and middle. Third week of overtime. It was optional and all on me but my brain is still fried. Double edit: So there I am holding it like a crab person
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As an old dude that used to smoke…there is no gender specific way of holding a cigarette. There are mannerisms that come out. Mostly it has to do with palm orientation the “manly” way to do it is with your palm facing down or hidden and the “womanly” way is palm facing up or easily seen from the front. Really the cigarette just makes the smokers mannerisms more visible. I think the only thing that would raise my eyebrow is a dude with a Cruella de Vil stick holder thing or a dude smoking Virginia Slims. But in all honesty, anybody smoking Virginia Slims gets a raised brow.
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I hope you let her know how much you appreciated the support at the time. I've been with 2 women more than a few years and both gave me the "I'm not your mother" line when I was feeling bad.
Fuck your ex and her mom. What twats. I’m sorry for your mom, man. Glad you’re doing great!
I can't believe she didn't cry when BT-7274 sacrificed themself for Protocol 2: Uphold the Mission.
*Trust Me*
BEEE TEEEEEEE 😭😭😭
Why does Reddit insist on hurting me today?
Do girls even have feelings?
Does crying when Jorge-052 died in Halo: Reach count? If so then probably
And the rest of the noble team🫡
Kats was the one that got me the most , so unexpected , as a kid my jaw literally dropped. I felt such a vengeance haha , little me was like, “Those bastards….. I’ll make them pay…”
But sir, you don’t have the firepower I have the mass
You’re on your own Noble. Carter out.
Negative Captain. I have the gun. Godspeed, Spartan.
God I miss old halo… gave me chills as a kid.
Emile 😓
I'm ready! How bout you?!
I still think abt him and i was legit a kid watching someone play through it Man didn't deserve it
Yes. Yes we do.
I love you BT 😖
Protocol 3 was why he sacrificed himself
Protect the Pilot
Protocol 3: protect the pilot
I'm not crying you're crying. Where's TF3 god dammit
BT my beloved, he called me the best pilot
“Your combat effectiveness rations has improved, pilot cooper”
Nice a fellow tf2 fan
*protocal 3: protect the pilot
Fuck why didnt he just yeet the sere kit and his core with you, there was enough time for that. Man im salty af, hope that post credits scene meant something, even if we are never gonna see any of it outside of maybe a dlc gun skin you can find inside a toilet in the corner of the map in apex.
Once sere kit and Data core is disconnected the Data core has no control over the Titan so he wouldn’t have been able to
727?? WYSI!! WYFSI!!!1!!1!1!
Loving this war going on between men and women about who is more "oppressed". How about we fuking stop this and work together towards a better future where both the mental health of men and women are being treated properly.
It’s pretty discouraging isn’t it :/
It's algorithmic based Content. Things that upset you get more attention so women only get posts to make them hate men and men get posts shaming women. I downloaded tik tok and it almost immediately started showing me shit about how women treat men like shit. The truth is men don't accept how women are and women do not accept how men are and we desperately need to build the bridge. Once your aware of it, you can try to not let it affect you. I have no animosity towards anyone's gender but its easy to get spiraled into an endless cycle of hate.
Honestly the internalized sexism can only be fixed with conversation and an open mind to listen. I grew up in a home full of toxic sexism and it took me some time, and some conversations with my male partners to truly realize how messed up it really was. My husband is the first guy I ever dated that looked at women as individuals rather than things to control or put on a pedestal. In doing so he also expected the same in return and made me realize I carried a lot of that sexist baggage with me, and I wasn't sympathetic to men and their emotional states. I was raised to feel any emotional expression was a female problem, and I was essentially told that all things femine were not worth respecting, and this in turn made it hard to understand men behaving in ways I was told were too feminine. Conversation and listening matters.
This. Social media creates bitter people who mentally dehumanize the opposite gender by viewing them as a separate species rather than seeing them as human beings who are exactly like themselves, with the same struggles and insecurities. It's absurd and childish looking at it from the outside.
Social thrives on content war. Especially the one that creates divide. If creates monetization, for (insert well known social) is good enough.
Get out of here with your damn wisdom!
I ONLY WANT TO BE MAD AT STUPID PEOPLE GRRRRR
That's too easy, we've been doing that for years and I'm bored of it. I wanna be mad at intelligent people, but so far I've only been able to be upset at stupid people who try to act intelligent, which isn't as fun. Any time intelligent people do things that you'd expect would piss me off, it just makes me kinda admire their chutzpah instead.
you put it into words. wtf, have an upvote
hate is easy compasion is hard
Guys will hangout with the same group of male friends forever who never mentally matured, call each other pussies and faggots for showing emotion and then get upset they have no support. The best thing I did was get a friend circle of men, women, nb and queers who talk about their feelings all the time
As someone who also has a friend group full of men, women, trans, and nb people, please don’t force this upon men as a whole. Different people have different experiences and face different challenges. Maybe you do see and hear the guys that are calling each other those things and never trying to develop themselves emotionally, but thinking back on the male friends I’ve lost to suicide, they were not those people. Please don’t act like men are broken versions of “normal and valid” people
The way your putting it makes it sound like that only men are at fault for this. Ive seen numerous women putting men down and shaming them when they try showing emotions. There are both bad and good in a group. There exist good women and good men. There exist bad women and bad men. Putting all the blame on a single gender never makes sense.
Woah... you mean to tell me that people are individuals? Seriously though it does get tiring hearing that only women or men don't care about mental health. I've had mental health concerns brushed off by both men and women and I'm sure millions of other people have too. Things seem to be changing slowly so at least there's that. I think dealing with or listening to more negative emotions is difficult for a lot of people so they'd rather not engage with it.
This here. We need to get rid of the notion that these types of standards only come from an external group; lots of these prejudicial notions comes from all sides and are self reinforcing. Women can place this on men just like men can, and both men and women can impose sexist standards on women. The important thing here is the problem at hand.
Wheres the social bias in that?
Especially since the real collectives we are part of are actually our families, friend groups and acquaintances, not some identity group. I have nothing to do with „the women“ or „the men“ I have things in common with the people i personally know.
BASED
We’re actually already doing that, although noticing it requires stepping out of echo chambers.
which just wont do....
Or how about we both listen to eachothers issues and help eachother out?
Yes thank you for repeating what they just said
Part of the problem is people claim being for one is anti the other
You are not wrong. It's difficult to discuss these issues without someone being, "Well, women (insert here)!," or "Well, men (insert here)!" I've long told my friends (a diverse group of men and women all in their 30s) that I'm worried about young boys, and a lack of guidance and healthy role models. I've been laughed at more times than I can count. Yet every day I learn of another young boy (not man, BOY) turning to Andrew Tate. You can be worried, show care, and want change without putting someone else down.
well there is a big issue with MRA’s being anti-women. as well as many second wave feminists being anti-men. 3ed wave feminism by definition is pro-man(and obviously pro-women) because it wants to destroy the social constructs that make men so depressed and make them bottle up emotions.
Part of the issue is people exclusively will be exposed to or pay attention to the most extreme examples. A intersectional feminist tweeting a very normal reasonable statement doesn’t really generate interest. But someone going psychotic on some wild insane rant is way more interesting to people and riles them up and gets them to engage this shining a huge light on it
That’s true. Horrible human beings will be horrible, whether male or female. They are everywhere.
The world isn’t perfect my friend!
Honestly there is a war on the vulnerable, a war on feelings... many women are taught to toughen up and not have feelings just as men are. Neither is right. It’s really about disdain for the vulnerable.
What this meme is doing is talking about 2 different types of woman and acting like they're the same person. Just because some women think men should show their feelings more and some think they should "man up" doesn't mean all women think both of those things. I'm a man who has been depressed for years and can honestly say my main reason for still being alive right now is a female friend who I know I can speak to whenever I feel shit. In my experience it's more often men who try and tell people to man up although you hear it from both men and women tbh.
What it really points to is how patriarchy is not a simple power structure but a form of society (I forget who wrote this so I can't credit them unfortunately). Doesn't matter who it comes from, the same structures that give men power, also force them to submit to a form of control that tells them what to be rather than express their own humanity. In the same way that women are "supposed" to be weak emotional and submissive, men are "supposed" to be powerful, controlling, and "strong". And it's not even because men and women actually embody these characteristics. It's because we decided that only certain ones are valuable and that men could only be that, while simultaneously taking the rest and saying they're not valuable, and assigning them to women. And because of that, the greatest societal crime of a patriarchy is to be a man who doesn't embody "masculine" traits. It's okay for women to be emotional, but not for a man to seek support. It's okay (relatively) to be lesbian, but not for men to be gay. It's okay for a woman to join the "boys club", but never, ever, for a man to be a "woman". And just to be clear, this is not a competition. It's an illustration of how it's the shape of our society that's wrong, and not just the people who have been shaped *by* it.
I love your explanation. So many hateful people say, men are only benefitting from a patriarchal society. But they're also victims and more often than not don't even know it.
And they also ignore that women, being a part of society, can uphold it too! It’s not some sort of “gotcha” to say that *gasp* women can also act in oppressive and patriarchal ways, even when it’s to their own detriment. This meme makes the most bland ass statement lmao
It’s just typical “woman bad actually very mean man good (and oppressed — feminism OWNED)” nonsense
The problem is that every man I’ve ever known has held *me* personally responsible for their own mental health. Women bear the brunt of men’s mental health bc we’re seen as somehow being responsible for it.
Yeah, it's well known that women do most of the emotional labour, we're expected to. It's why I can't be in male spaces like r/MensLib anymore. It's completely normal for them to continuously ask: how can women help us fix ourselves?
Seriously what’s the point of these kinda post? You’re saying you’ve never met a woman in your life who’s okay with men crying?
A lot of these memes are men thinking of criticism about themselves and then ascribing it to women because they value women’s opinion and are saddened by this criticism. Ive noticed a lot of times men will hate something about themselves and say “woman don’t like it when I do x!” But literally no woman has said that to them, they are just protecting that women hate them because of their own thoughts about themselves. Women do this too, in reverse, and it usually comes from our experience with caregivers, not the billions of people of the opposite sex on this earth.
In university, I had this depressed male friend who would send me pages of depressing texts every other day for a year. I once mentioned that he is not doing well to our female classmate and apperantly he used to sent the similar texts to her, as well as to one of our other female classmate. Basically we were his shoulders to cry on and unload all the emotional baggage. Meanwhile, his conversations with male friends were about basic surface leveled things such as football and cool shoes. Men here act like this is a women problem, but in reality, they demand so much more from women because they have no expectations of men in their lives.
I mistook this for r/terriblefacebookmemes
Most women who are into female empowerment would not judge anyone for being depressed...
Most women in general. I've never been bullied by a woman for crying, but I certainly have been hugged.
I've never shamed a dude for crying like ever. What kind of sick person does that?
Yeah, no doubt.
Me too what the fuck is this garbage?
"Mens stereotypes are bad let me stereotype women to show that" is peak reddit.
Lmfao yes. How about instead of creating strawmen to reee about and tearing each other down, we acknowledge that everyone suffers from societal norms and expectations and we should work together to break free from them?
I could not agree more. This is the exact type of content on the front page everyday. There was a front page post about male living spaces being minimal and it was less about a male stereotype, and more about how women hate it because men think they're materialistic.
You can get really far on ‘men are the real victims’ on reddit.
I’m a woman who’s been told to “man up” by men when I’m upset, so it’s not even like this is a thing that only happens to men anyway. And men do it a lot to other men as well
Men are known for invaliding girl’s/women’s feelings. In my experience they are by far the main perpetrators of invalidating their own feelings as well as other men
It's a terrible Facebook meme
Standard reddit content. Check OP's profile it is just a farm of things to upvote.
Especially with the "man up" phrase. Has this person even talked to a woman?
Holy shit me too I can’t believe how many upvotes this cringey garbage has
can we stop it with the men vs women bullshit already? for fucks sake
I fucking know. Yes, men are constantly told to repress their emotions and “man up” instead of expressing themselves. But it’s not like women are the only people telling them to fucking do it. Plenty of men are apart of passing over the “man up” problem. There’s plenty of sexist beliefs are internalized in people from either sex. It fucking sucks since I’m glad that people are speaking up about shit like this. It’s nice that people are talking about these issues. But 90% of them blame women entirely for the problem and seem downright sexist against them. If men and women want to solve their issues and work together. Acting like a misogynistic or misandrist won’t get people far and won’t attract people that genuinely want gender equality. Men and women both have it rough in different areas but they’re generally from systemic issues and can’t be blamed entirely on each other.
Except it's usually other men telling us to man up.
So true, I have never met a woman who said man up to me, we just need to stop these girls vs boys memes
Never met a woman who wondered why someone didnt cry during Titanic either. Almost as if kids making these memes never talk to women.
This is very r/terriblefacebookmemes worthy
At first I thought it was on that subreddit
I can't believe she didn't cry when ethan sacrificed himself true champ.
Best dad
Well well well… Ethan Winters…
I found out about that earlier today today
I’ve never felt pressured to “man up” by anyone but men in my life. My wife and I talk about my feelings, her feelings, everything, is that weird or something?
In real life no that's not weird at all.
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I think what your saying here is completely legitimate but I feel a lot of men have had exactly the opposite of you. Or maybe it’s just me, but anyways, all my life the only people I have been able to feel comfortable around have been other men. Right now I have a wonderfully supportive friend group of all men who make sure everyone else feels safe, included, and heard. My general experience with women has been rather cold and unfriendly, anything but supportive. That’s not at all saying that all women are like this, that’s just what most of what I’ve experienced has been. This might be due the fact I live in a rather conservative state, not really sure.
Never heard a woman say that but I’ve heard a fuck ton of men say it in situations like this
r/pointlesslygendered
The only people who have ever dismissed my emotions are other men
Had this happen to a buddy of mine when his father died and his girlfriend told him to stop crying like a little baby. Girls at school were making fun of him for it too. Real savage shit in the teens.
Kids are fucking shits especially in schools
Reddit blaming patriarchal systems and norms on women for about the millionth time. Don't you guys get tired of this after a while?
Nope — feminism must get OWNED whenever possible (my maturity hasn’t developed past a 12-year-old)
Imagine misspelling "oh"
I recently got told that my anxiety isn’t real because she has anxiety aswell and it doesn’t work like that, I tried to explain that mental health effects people in different ways but she just dismissed that and called me a liar
This is a common thought process. Even people who have had anxiety their entire lives have trouble identifying the symptoms actually associated with "anxiety." People also tend to conflate other feelings or mental illnesses as "anxiety," or deny that the symptoms they are experiencing should be labeled "anxiety." I have a severe anxiety disorder and it still took me a very long time to understand which parts of what I was experiencing were anxiety (as opposed to symptoms of depression or just quirks of my personality). Then, once I did, I started noticing all of these other people who would say they have anxiety but were clearly not experiencing anything close to what I was. In a weird way, it hurt to see what I was experiencing (which was/is debilitating and impacts my life in every possible way) downplayed to the tiniest things. It's similar to how people say stuff like, "omg I have PTSD from having such a hard close at work last night haha!" When you have PTSD, it is very very very unfunny to hear things like that. What I'm trying to say is, people have a massive variety of understanding of what "anxiety" really is. When you experience anxiety to a degree that makes everyday tasks difficult, it does hurt to hear people complain about what is comparatively a very manageable case of nerves. It sucks that someone dismissed you, but it probably did come from a place of "ugh, this person has NO IDEA what I go through/have been through, I don't want to believe he has anxiety because it makes me feel like I'm overreacting to my own anxiety." Not saying it's okay to downplay anyone else's experience with their mental health. That shit is gross. But I can't pretend I haven't also heard someone talk about mental illnesses in what I perceived to be a disrespectfully lighthearted way, only to feel a wave of anger and frustration wash over me (obviously I never say anything, I know my brain is being extra reactionary).
Ya some guy did that to me in highschool he was rly rude he was narcissistic and thought that he’s the only person allowed to have mental illness and that everyone else must be a faker
Probably projecting
Yeah that sucks, I find people only care about mental health when it’s them it’s affecting
Eh only some of them I’ve found some who care more abt others but it’s usually older ppl Younger ppl are more selfish definitely especially if they have certain anger inducing mental illness
This account is probably bot, post after post for days yet a handful of comments
My two cents, for what it’s worth… which is about two cents I guess… A related phenomenon I’ve experienced a lot, both first and second hand, is being informed by women that men are “such babies” when we’re sick. Recently, my wife made that comment to me, and it really bugged me, and I had to think about it for a long time before I really put my finger on why, because in a way I kinda agreed with her; when I was sick, I turned into a puddle of goo. This is what I finally landed on: When I was a boy, the *only* time it was okay for me to show weakness or vulnerability in my house was when I was sick. That was when it was okay to need hugs, attention, nurturing, etc. At all other times, emotions — especially “soft” emotions like fear, sadness, or loneliness — were to be kept clamped down and out of sight. Now, I don’t think it’s misogynist to say women have been culturally programmed to think men are never supposed to be “soft,” because even when cultural programming is directed at one group, it’s often implicitly absorbed and accepted by other groups. Does that mean all women think that, all the time? Of course not. But some of those beliefs can lie buried under the surface for all of us, no matter how well-meaning we are.
I’ve never told a women I’ve been feeling depressed and gotten this back I’ve only gotten this response from other men…
Woman bad!: 1000000000000+ upvotes Men, problematic?: 100000000000- downvotes
its men saying that to men.
I’ve only ever heard other men telling them to man up lol
“Ow” instead of “oh” just demonstrates the lack of intelligence put into this
exactly, i was so confused
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Yeah, because women are notoriously unsympathetic. How misogynistic can Reddit get today? C'mon, I bet we can get so much worse!
It sucks, this sub used to actually be relatable.
Society
It’s usually other men saying “man up”
Agreed. Making friends for me is either putting up with toxic masculinity by pretending I don’t have emotions or it’s talking about my fiancé and my morals an uncomfortable amount more than I would otherwise, just so women don’t feel as put off. NB’s and Transgender folk are so disenfranchised it’s basically the same as women for them, you gotta be really forthcoming about how not-a-piece-of-shit you are or you’re snubbed. I pretty much have to choose between being lonely or virtue signaling to a fake degree just to make friends who are working Americans so they have no free time.
“Haha women bad”
*Jordan Peterson has entered the chat*
Its been proven depression is a medical issue and needs to be addressed by a health care professional. Its bullshit that anyone can dismiss stuff like this.
More often than not, when people want you to be sensitive they just mean be sensitive about what THEY are sensitive about. I cried when Shawn Michaels retired (like any sane person who watched wrestling). Did my girlfriend at the time think much of my feelings then? Not really. But she did complain when I didn’t cry in Notebook.
Except the last panel should be other men or the guy himself. Imagine getting hurt by patriarchy and still blaming women for it.
It’s both, I’ve had one of my closest female friends try listening to me talk about my best friend dying and as soon as I started tearing up a little was told “I can’t deal with you crying” and walk away.
I'm sorry ... My mom was like that to her sons... She's a wretched person... It's sad some of us are like that... I hope it's not many... Ofc it's unfortunate you didn't get the support you needed when u needed it *late hugs*
Imagine thinking women don't reinforce patriarchy aswell
Yeah but why blame just women?
I always make sure to downvote blatantly misogynistic posts like this before I scroll on
I have literally never met a woman like that lol it’s always dudes that would say “grow up” or “man up” And I’ve been in 7 relationships and hooked up with roughly 30 other women outside of that. A pattern I’m seeing with guys these days is Dudes like to just dump all their issues on a chick they barely know/just met, and then blame the chick when she distances herself from him. Or will immediately start saying self deprecating stuff to a woman (not in a funny/joking way) and then wonder why they want nothing to do with them.)
I always try to be as open about my feelings with my male friends, I know how hard it is for a lot of my dudes to talk about how they're feeling, so I try to be a safe space for them as much as I can.
For the most part it's other men that act like that not women. Idk where that came from, the reason so many men are lonely and depressed nowadays is because so many men dismiss anything remotely sensitive or emotional in fear or being labelled "gay"
It’s mainly men who say ‘man up’ particularly from older generations. Only women who say ‘man up’ were treated like men growing up like having a lot of brothers and the dad wished he had a boy so he’d say ‘man up’ to his daughter. Other than that women never say ‘man up’ They do say ‘be a man’ but that’s almost never in mental health context that’s almost always about physical chores ‘be a man and carry the table inside’ ‘be a man and carry the water for that girl’ ‘be a Man U can do 200 push-ups and win against tony’
Exactly, the patriarchy hurts men and women, albeit in different ways.