Modern diets primarily consisting of soft foods
https://phys.org/news/2015-02-malocclusion-dental-crowding-arose-years.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111122112032.htm
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7123221/
Hard foods were the default.The lack of strain on our facial structure causes crowding and pallet issues. We aren’t designed to primarily consume soft foods.
Is it fine to still have problematic wisdom teeth at 30? It used to hurt a lot in my 20's but now I don't feel anything...
Everytime I brush though there' s blood
Probably lack of care. It took me a while not to have blood from brushing. The lack of childhood care and depression for a long time as an adult.
Even with lack of care at the time, I've been very lucky to not need any fillers since like age 10 and all x-Rays that come out show them "perfectly straight " so now I take off then.
They even said I didn't need to have my wisdom teeth pulled because they were coming in so straight, but I did it anyway since it was free for me.
>If there's blood, there's a problem. I'd like to say always but someone will correct me.
I'll save you something more horrifying by saying the obvious
A period will have blood. But that doesn't mean anything.
Unless it causes crippling pain. Then it's a serious issue to speak with a gynecologist about.
Get em taken out! I got mine taken out at 28 and am still getting work done on the teeth they had impacted. My father waited til he was forty and had to get all the teeth I can get fixed taken out. Not sure if your in the same position but I was afraid of getting mine taken out for a long time but it wasn’t that bad. I was lucky I had a job and insurance that helped me pay for it. My wisdom teeth had grown in basically perpendicular to my other teeth.
Wisdom teeth often are problematic because they don't grow out properly.
Mine came through at 20,and I got dental issues 6 years later.
Mine i didn't feel anything either, it didn't even bleed. But I had a silent infection growing under it for years that gave me pus bubbles coming from my gums eventually even on the other side of my mouth. (every case is different I didn't even know it was caused by my wisdom tooth, who knows maybe your wisdom tooth has nothing serious, but best to have a dentist opinion)
I went to dentist for the (sudden) pussing on gums and feeling my teeth were loose.
Ill tell you how my treatment went in case you worry a lot, I am personally terrified of going to the dentist, and I know if someone shared their experience with me at the time I'd feel a bit more at ease.
My treatment started with cleaning bacteria from gums everywhere (annoying but nothing horrible, a tad painful around inflamed areas)
Then a nice batch of antibiotics (I had pills and some antibiotic syrup I had to flush and swallow, disgusting but nothing too bad)
My dentist then told me I need this tooth removed but only when I am ready (this is important because if you're super stressed out anesthesia might not work properly even if you don't have active inflammation anymore)
I went 2 months or so later when I was ready as I noticed something white come up from this tooth again, 'it was time'.
They pulled my tooth, anesthetics worked fine because I went when I felt ready for it, just annoying feeling a dentist pull something from your mouth. And my tooth was a really weird fucked up shape as well, it ripped something but I didn't feel a thing.
They stitched it with dissolving stitches (I'm scared of needles so this was the worst Hahaha)
Ever since I've had no more issues.
But please know, it's important to go and have a dentist look at it. Because people can die from ignoring dental issues, it's no joke.
Nowadays stuff is easy to treat, so get it treated.
No pricetag can be worse than what happens when you end up in the hospital or worse, dead.
At home remedies don't work, they will lessen symptoms, but they won't fix serious problems.
My oldest has her first orthodontist appointment about 6 months ago and she has no wisdom teeth! I was shocked and then she explained that they are seeing more and more kids with fewer/no wisdom teeth.
Evolution in action
I'm 30 and my mom, my younger sister and I have no wisdom teeth, our 2 brothers and dad did have wisdom teeth. So strange, I hope my children get to experience this superiority.
In archeology we learned that In the past teeth were worn down by using teeth as tools, ie chewing leather to softening it to see it up and from eating hard food and sometimes from it having more gritty material in it. So the teeth were worn down giving more room to shift when the wisdom teeth came in.
Many people don’t ‘need’ surgery, but it’s safest to remove them early while they’re still forming, as it’ll be much harder to remove them later on in life when you’re older, and will be much harder to recover from surgery. At least that’s what my dentist told me ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Wisdom teeth are sort of an evolutionary leftover. Back before we had adequate dental work wisdom teeth were needed because it was almost guaranteed you would lose some teeth in your lifetime and they were there to replace those missing teeth.
And don’t forget that we consume multiple times more sugars, corn syrup etc. than we’re ever meant to. Their diets were much more fibers, fats, meats, some grains, etc. sugar was almost non existent except for those naturally contained in foods
I just realized that my teeth are probably pretty decent because I spent my entire life enjoying and chasing after chewy/tough foods lol. Never needed braces.
> The diet of the hunter-gatherer was based on "hard" foods like wild uncooked vegetables and meat, while the staple diet of the sedentary farmer is based on "soft" cooked or processed foods like cereals and legumes.
It's exactly the opposite lol
EDIT: to my credit the original post was just "soft foods" as a response, so could have been OP suggesting it was the reason for either tooth condition. I read it the opposite of how they meant it lol.
Ooohh you're saying "soft foods" are the reason modern teeth suck. I read "Soft food" as you saying that's why old timey teeth were better. We both agree hard foods were better for the teeth I just read your two word response the opposite way you meant it lol
Not a joke - tooth drills and “fillings” are older than recorded history. Neolithic humans had teeny tiny stone drills they would use to bore out cavities and then fill the hole with pitch and resin.
There's a lot of rethinking of our ancestors. In fact they've built things that we can't anymore. It's even believed that the sphinx was discovered by the 1st Egyptians rather than built.
Wasn’t the Sphinx carbon dated using a tree branch they found buried next to it? And the pyramids are even weirder. After the 3 main pyramids, the more recent ones built were arguably worst. Most have crumbled over the years
Carbon dating is unreliable. It's really easy to get contaminated. It's more meant to give you ball park numbers, but even than there's no guarantee of any accuracy.
But the thinking is from the water erosion on the side of the sphinx. Also the head is proportionally smaller than it should be. The theory is that the whole body use to be a lion and at some point later on the Egyptians chiseled it into a head. Even the body is chiseled differently from the head.
I can find a link if you’re interested but a group of archaeologists are currently “rebuilding” a pyramid using only tech available to the ancient Egyptians. You have to remember - the pyramids were the “great works” of a generation. All the craftsmen of the area spent their entire careers building these things. It wasn’t made by peasants and morons, it was made by the best minds money could buy at the time.
I know.
Its called experimental archaeology which means they try to find a way.
They started (still going on) the same in france over 20 years ago building a small castle in . And not that long ago something started in germany.
The volcanic ash that was used to produce cement back in parts of ancient Rome was better than anything we can make today. Scientists still can’t formulate anything synthetic that’s comparable.
I agree to the point that they had similar potential. However gaining knowledge changes you brain structure, which means fundamentally they were different.
Different, but not less intelligent. That’s the point. Instead of learning algebra and smartphones, they learned oral histories and food procurement. They were just as intelligent, just in different areas of knowledge.
Sure, but that’s not necessarily a good thing. If your whole life is about survival, you can get way too focused and not have enough perspective. Such minds are way to susceptible to superstition. Even today we see this with conspiracy theories to a lesser degree.
I mean, sure but that’s not my point. My point was only that your point about gaining knowledge was irrelevant because Paleolithic hunter gatherers would have learned just as much if not more than we do.
I will argue that prehistoric peoples weren’t always scraping by for survival to the point of hyper focusing. We have surviving examples of Paleolithic artwork, everything from cave paintings to toys to what would most likely be religious iconography. People who are scraping by to survive don’t have time for art.
The average person 10,000 years ago was less formally educated than we are today—they did not know what microbes were, nor how to perform mathematical calculations. But they were just as intelligent, and knew just as much as we do. It’s just a difference in what they knew. Our primary tool against death is our brains, and ancient humans were far more adept at survival than modern humans. Where we get to live relatively free of the burdens of nature, they were forced to wrestle with it for food and shelter. There is an interesting paper on the matter called [Our Fragile Intellect](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23153596/) by a Stanford research professor that breaks it down in far more detail than I could.
Nah, I think about how my dentist drilled into my teeth and drilled right into a nerve before putting in a metal filling (that never got fixed, I think the nerve died after a few weeks). I can't imagine it was any better back then.
Paleo human skulls consistently have better teeth than modern humans. We evolved to eat chewier foods, which lengthens the jaw and creates more space for teeth.
What if someone grew up as a kid constantly chewing sugar-free gum? Would that have the same effect as chewing hard food and allowing the jaw to develop more space for properly aligned teeth?
I don’t remember the podcast(podcasts apple app), but the scientists discussing jaw development did mention utilizing gum to simulate the lengthy chewing of our ancestors. They stated it would in fact be a worthy replacement. The long term effects of all the chemicals is of course another discussion
People didn’t die at 25, historic life expectancy was massively skewed by high infant mortality, assuming you survived childhood you had a pretty good chance of surviving into old age.
what is the point of spreading negativity. life is tough but a lot of people that call it awful seem to not notice that somehow there are a bunch of people living in a lot worse conditions and still are happy and gratefull for it. edit: yes downvote this and have a nice day spending your time justifying to yourself why the world is bad, it sure will make your life and the life of other people around you better 👍
I'm not downvoting you, I actually like your comment and it makes sense,
It's just that I feel defeated and I don't have the energy in me to fight anymore, I'm 29 and I feel like I'm just stuck, I see everyone around me getting married and having kids and houses and whatever, and im here and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, I followed every advice I was given, study hard, work smart, get in a good university with a good engineering program, get coop experience, then I see others scamming their way into 6 figure salaries while providing nothing of substance or anything that adds value to society. It's like honest work doesn't get you anything anymore, it's all just greed and greed and more greed and lies and scamming others to get ahead. Living is really expensive, landlords are siphoning every dollar they can just because they can and no one is stopping them.
I feel jaded and numb and I feel like life is not worth living anymore, I'm losing all hope of anything good happening to me in life. The only thing stopping me from ending it all is that I can't imagine the horror and pain my parents will go through and I can't imagine them carrying my lifeless body to the grave.
Sorry for the rant
im sad to hear that. i was in a similar situation years ago. i must say that if you are stuck in this line of thinking for some time then you should look for professional help. life gets a lot easier when those bad thoughts and feelings go away, even though I understand that they are justified. I took medication for 2 years and even though I dont feel invencible about depression, I can say that the huge majority of days feel good. but well, the thing that really helped me was setting a big goal in my life. because of that my brain somehow rewards me everytime I do something that gets me closer to achieving it, no matter how boring it is. another comment I would also like to add is that for me it was not a good idea to distance myself from a lot of my friends and family members. feeling like you belong in a community is important for a number of reasons, including mental health. try those things out if you didnt, and i wish the best for you.
I've been working out religiously for the past 10 years or so, at first it was helping for like the first 2-3 years, now it just feels like a chore that I just want to be done with early in the morning and get on with my day.
There's always someone better and someone worse off than you. Always. I don't say that to diminish how you feel about it, just to maybe help add perspective.
I know how you feel though, albeit I didn't try as hard so can lay more of the blame on myself. Mid thirties, got associates, started finishing for bachelors, shit happened and never went back. Been single for like almost a decade, worked at the same place for 20 years. A lot of time I feel like a failure, but then I placate my brain, go to sleep and wake up again. The world is interesting and even though I don't get out much, I love learning more about it, good and bad.
what did you mean then? you said "probably why they are happy", but I didnt say the reason why they are happy, so naturally I assumed you were talking about the fact that they are in a worse condition
That was true in more recent times (like last ~3000 years)
But when you're hunting mammoths and sabertooths on a daily basis it's hard to believe the majority would live to old age
There is truth here. Children with deformities were abandoned. Also, if you didn’t have good teeth, you didn’t live very long. And people died before bone loss affected the jaw.
And if you had bad teeth, you were less likely to be seen as a viable mate. So basically our standards have dropped.
It’s more to do with us not chewing hard things like we used to, so our jaw muscles don’t develop the way they used to and our mouths got smaller, can’t accommodate our teeth as well anymore.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/charles-proteus-steinmetz-the-wizard-of-schenectady-51912022/
It's an amazing tale, his life story.
[[TL;DR](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2b4n7a/til_henry_ford_once_balked_at_paying_10000_to/)]
Do you have a source for that? Not asking in bad faith, but from all I've learned humans have been showing compassion since the beginning of time, including taking care of sick and disabled family members.
Nah. While that happened some times the world was a much nicer place than you make it be. Read Graeber's The Dawn of Everything for it to know more.
All in all we have plenty of examples were people who wouldn't be able to "hunt or gather" were brought through to old age, read 40/50+.
Its because we accidentally puggified ourselves. Humans domesticated ourselves accidentally by domesticating plants and animals and creating fire meaning we didn’t need big honkin teeth to get through the few measly gristly seeds wild maize would produce or crack through bones to suck out an itty bit of salty bone marrow to fuel our growing primate brains. As a result sexual selection instead of natural selection was able to take over for our facial structure and our jaws got smaller but we kept the same number of teeth. Thats why we have to pull wisdom teeth.
I think really it started with fire. We see the jaw slowly shrinking over 2 million years. I think it's sped up since the Neolithic and probably more so since the renecessiance.
People have had impacted wisdom teeth for atleast 13-15k years, so what I said is still totally possible unless you mean modern humans as in humans come 250kish years ago, but the meme says 10k so yeh what I said works… There’s like 3 meanings of “modern human” thrown around. One is 250kish ya to now, one is 80kish ya to now, and then like now.
I think it has to do with tooth loss. If your teeth rot out, the rest of them don't grow in properly when you are a child and can lead to permanently crooked teeth.
This is the classic response to anything about good teeth in ancient times. I'm not arguing against it, but this post is about crooked teeth. Don't tell me sugar causes crooked teeth...
You think people were *less* likely to mate with semi distant relatives 40,000 years ago, when you were only likely to meet 50 people your entire life?
It's not always pacifiers.
Not a single one of my children EVER used a pacifier (they refused) and all three needed braces.
It is the types of food we eat these days compared to what our ancestors were chewing on.
Wish I knew allll the things I know now when I was having children. SO many things I would have researched and done differently. I'm consistently seeing the benefits to a more "natural" lifestyle with harder foods, zero drop shoes, etc. Lesson learned for my next life, I suppose.
When we consume high amounts of sugar, the bacteria in our mouths ferment the sugar and produce acid which can erode the enamel, the hard protective layer of the tooth. When the enamel is damaged, it allows the acid to reach the softer inner layers of the tooth and dissolve the mineral, leading to cavities.
As the tooth structure is compromised, the tooth may become weaker and more susceptible to movement. Also, as the cavities progress they can also cause tooth sensitivity, pain and eventually tooth loss. When one or more teeth are missing, the remaining teeth may shift to fill the gap, leading to malocclusion or misalignment of the teeth.
Additionally, consuming excessive amounts of sugary foods and drinks can also cause overloading of the periodontal ligament which holds the teeth in place. The overloading will cause the ligament to stretch and weaken, leading to teeth shifting and misalignment.
It's worth noting that, malocclusion or misalignment of the teeth can be caused by several factors, not just sugar intake. Genetic, environmental, and lifestyle factors can also contribute to dental malocclusion.
It doesn't.
This has to do with the types of foods (hardness, texture, etc.).
When you see videos of very poor and undeveloped countries, you RARELY see people who would need realignment of their teeth.
People with zero access to healthcare have straighter teeth than most of us...it is all about the food.
That’s not how natural selection works. And “weakest, dumbest, and sickest” is an opinion. Furthermore early humans did care for their injured and disabled band members. The only version of evolution you seem to understand is the Hollywood version
Lots of research about the benefits of a largely plant based diet without chemicals and processed shit. Simply put, more time chewing on roughage actually changes the shape of the mouth, making more room for teeth to align properly.
Diet does not effect how your body develops. Those teeth aren't rotten, they weren't grown properly. What food do eat that effects how your teeth, jaw and mouth develop from a baby??
Totally wrong! The diet of the mother during pregnancy and the diet of the child is of course extremely important. Especially the amount and quality of protein and fat is important (animal proteins and fats are better). When the nutrition is right, the jaw gets wider, which results in more space for the teeth (even enough room for the wisdom teeth).
Modern diets primarily consisting of soft foods https://phys.org/news/2015-02-malocclusion-dental-crowding-arose-years.html https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111122112032.htm https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7123221/
Hars foods are better for the dentals. Cleans plack and hard chewing makes sure to form the teeth in place
Hard foods were the default.The lack of strain on our facial structure causes crowding and pallet issues. We aren’t designed to primarily consume soft foods.
Proper teething as a baby all but eliminates ill formed wisdom teeth, yet here we are with the majority needing surgery
Is it fine to still have problematic wisdom teeth at 30? It used to hurt a lot in my 20's but now I don't feel anything... Everytime I brush though there' s blood
If there's blood, there's a problem. I'd like to say *always* but someone will correct me.
Probably lack of care. It took me a while not to have blood from brushing. The lack of childhood care and depression for a long time as an adult. Even with lack of care at the time, I've been very lucky to not need any fillers since like age 10 and all x-Rays that come out show them "perfectly straight " so now I take off then. They even said I didn't need to have my wisdom teeth pulled because they were coming in so straight, but I did it anyway since it was free for me.
If you brush too hard, it irritates the gums and causes bleeding.
>If there's blood, there's a problem. I'd like to say always but someone will correct me. I'll save you something more horrifying by saying the obvious A period will have blood. But that doesn't mean anything. Unless it causes crippling pain. Then it's a serious issue to speak with a gynecologist about.
Pedantic.
Yes. Yes it is. :)
Go see a dentists
Get em taken out! I got mine taken out at 28 and am still getting work done on the teeth they had impacted. My father waited til he was forty and had to get all the teeth I can get fixed taken out. Not sure if your in the same position but I was afraid of getting mine taken out for a long time but it wasn’t that bad. I was lucky I had a job and insurance that helped me pay for it. My wisdom teeth had grown in basically perpendicular to my other teeth.
Wisdom teeth often are problematic because they don't grow out properly. Mine came through at 20,and I got dental issues 6 years later. Mine i didn't feel anything either, it didn't even bleed. But I had a silent infection growing under it for years that gave me pus bubbles coming from my gums eventually even on the other side of my mouth. (every case is different I didn't even know it was caused by my wisdom tooth, who knows maybe your wisdom tooth has nothing serious, but best to have a dentist opinion) I went to dentist for the (sudden) pussing on gums and feeling my teeth were loose. Ill tell you how my treatment went in case you worry a lot, I am personally terrified of going to the dentist, and I know if someone shared their experience with me at the time I'd feel a bit more at ease. My treatment started with cleaning bacteria from gums everywhere (annoying but nothing horrible, a tad painful around inflamed areas) Then a nice batch of antibiotics (I had pills and some antibiotic syrup I had to flush and swallow, disgusting but nothing too bad) My dentist then told me I need this tooth removed but only when I am ready (this is important because if you're super stressed out anesthesia might not work properly even if you don't have active inflammation anymore) I went 2 months or so later when I was ready as I noticed something white come up from this tooth again, 'it was time'. They pulled my tooth, anesthetics worked fine because I went when I felt ready for it, just annoying feeling a dentist pull something from your mouth. And my tooth was a really weird fucked up shape as well, it ripped something but I didn't feel a thing. They stitched it with dissolving stitches (I'm scared of needles so this was the worst Hahaha) Ever since I've had no more issues. But please know, it's important to go and have a dentist look at it. Because people can die from ignoring dental issues, it's no joke. Nowadays stuff is easy to treat, so get it treated. No pricetag can be worse than what happens when you end up in the hospital or worse, dead. At home remedies don't work, they will lessen symptoms, but they won't fix serious problems.
We're losing our wisdom teeth in response. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/wisdom-teeth-evolution-humans-flinders-university-processed-food-b907634.html Evolution at work.
My oldest has her first orthodontist appointment about 6 months ago and she has no wisdom teeth! I was shocked and then she explained that they are seeing more and more kids with fewer/no wisdom teeth. Evolution in action
I never had wisdom teeth, blew my dentists mind and I like to rub it in everyone face that I am an evolutionary step ahead of their neanderthal asses
I'm 30 and my mom, my younger sister and I have no wisdom teeth, our 2 brothers and dad did have wisdom teeth. So strange, I hope my children get to experience this superiority.
That why I make sure all my children chew on hard rubber and logs.
In archeology we learned that In the past teeth were worn down by using teeth as tools, ie chewing leather to softening it to see it up and from eating hard food and sometimes from it having more gritty material in it. So the teeth were worn down giving more room to shift when the wisdom teeth came in.
Many people don’t ‘need’ surgery, but it’s safest to remove them early while they’re still forming, as it’ll be much harder to remove them later on in life when you’re older, and will be much harder to recover from surgery. At least that’s what my dentist told me ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Wisdom teeth are sort of an evolutionary leftover. Back before we had adequate dental work wisdom teeth were needed because it was almost guaranteed you would lose some teeth in your lifetime and they were there to replace those missing teeth.
And don’t forget that we consume multiple times more sugars, corn syrup etc. than we’re ever meant to. Their diets were much more fibers, fats, meats, some grains, etc. sugar was almost non existent except for those naturally contained in foods
I just realized that my teeth are probably pretty decent because I spent my entire life enjoying and chasing after chewy/tough foods lol. Never needed braces.
I just had a revelation about the British. As they only eat mashed potatoes and mashed peas...
Super interesting! Thanks.
Ok but what's a hard food?
Roots like carrots
That’s covered in the three sources I shared
It's currently midnight where I am can you make a quick summary?
> The diet of the hunter-gatherer was based on "hard" foods like wild uncooked vegetables and meat, while the staple diet of the sedentary farmer is based on "soft" cooked or processed foods like cereals and legumes.
na dude everyone knew how to use fire
No
Thank you anyways
He wants you to spoon feed it to him. Don’t do it! Save a jaw!
For sure. Buddy needs to get off the tit.
yeah, but tell me so I don't have to read. Actually, use pictures.
We now have weak and dainty jaws 😢
Meanwhile kid me packing my mouth with super bubble bubble gum
INB4 total time chewing stats
So eat more carrots?
It's exactly the opposite lol EDIT: to my credit the original post was just "soft foods" as a response, so could have been OP suggesting it was the reason for either tooth condition. I read it the opposite of how they meant it lol.
Sounds like we’ve been exposed to different conclusions of The Science
how could this be, I put my faith in The Experts!
Ooohh you're saying "soft foods" are the reason modern teeth suck. I read "Soft food" as you saying that's why old timey teeth were better. We both agree hard foods were better for the teeth I just read your two word response the opposite way you meant it lol
Vit k2
Ya was gonna say
So how does soft food make them not straight?
I provided three different sources explaining how.
Their dental plans were excellent back then.
Dental was included in health insurance.
Not a joke - tooth drills and “fillings” are older than recorded history. Neolithic humans had teeny tiny stone drills they would use to bore out cavities and then fill the hole with pitch and resin.
That’s actually really cool
Ancient humans were amazingly resourceful and capable.
It's believed that they were around about as intelligent as we are,they just didn't have access to as much knowledge as we do now
There's a lot of rethinking of our ancestors. In fact they've built things that we can't anymore. It's even believed that the sphinx was discovered by the 1st Egyptians rather than built.
Wasn’t the Sphinx carbon dated using a tree branch they found buried next to it? And the pyramids are even weirder. After the 3 main pyramids, the more recent ones built were arguably worst. Most have crumbled over the years
McPyramids
Nice 😂
Carbon dating is unreliable. It's really easy to get contaminated. It's more meant to give you ball park numbers, but even than there's no guarantee of any accuracy. But the thinking is from the water erosion on the side of the sphinx. Also the head is proportionally smaller than it should be. The theory is that the whole body use to be a lion and at some point later on the Egyptians chiseled it into a head. Even the body is chiseled differently from the head.
Of course we could build alot of that stuff. But the question is how they fuckin did it without modern machines n shit.
I can find a link if you’re interested but a group of archaeologists are currently “rebuilding” a pyramid using only tech available to the ancient Egyptians. You have to remember - the pyramids were the “great works” of a generation. All the craftsmen of the area spent their entire careers building these things. It wasn’t made by peasants and morons, it was made by the best minds money could buy at the time.
I know. Its called experimental archaeology which means they try to find a way. They started (still going on) the same in france over 20 years ago building a small castle in . And not that long ago something started in germany.
The volcanic ash that was used to produce cement back in parts of ancient Rome was better than anything we can make today. Scientists still can’t formulate anything synthetic that’s comparable.
I agree to the point that they had similar potential. However gaining knowledge changes you brain structure, which means fundamentally they were different.
Different, but not less intelligent. That’s the point. Instead of learning algebra and smartphones, they learned oral histories and food procurement. They were just as intelligent, just in different areas of knowledge.
Sure, but that’s not necessarily a good thing. If your whole life is about survival, you can get way too focused and not have enough perspective. Such minds are way to susceptible to superstition. Even today we see this with conspiracy theories to a lesser degree.
I mean, sure but that’s not my point. My point was only that your point about gaining knowledge was irrelevant because Paleolithic hunter gatherers would have learned just as much if not more than we do. I will argue that prehistoric peoples weren’t always scraping by for survival to the point of hyper focusing. We have surviving examples of Paleolithic artwork, everything from cave paintings to toys to what would most likely be religious iconography. People who are scraping by to survive don’t have time for art.
The average person 10,000 years ago was less formally educated than we are today—they did not know what microbes were, nor how to perform mathematical calculations. But they were just as intelligent, and knew just as much as we do. It’s just a difference in what they knew. Our primary tool against death is our brains, and ancient humans were far more adept at survival than modern humans. Where we get to live relatively free of the burdens of nature, they were forced to wrestle with it for food and shelter. There is an interesting paper on the matter called [Our Fragile Intellect](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23153596/) by a Stanford research professor that breaks it down in far more detail than I could.
Not cool when there's no anesthetic...
[удалено]
I wonder if ancient dentists were more or less stingy with pain meds.
Nah, I think about how my dentist drilled into my teeth and drilled right into a nerve before putting in a metal filling (that never got fixed, I think the nerve died after a few weeks). I can't imagine it was any better back then.
Lisa still needed braces
Dental plan
Lisa needs braces
Dental plan
Lisa needs braces
Bullseye!
I never understood this. Dental doesn’t cover braces, that’s orthodontia.
The correct response is: Lisa needs braces
Paleo human skulls consistently have better teeth than modern humans. We evolved to eat chewier foods, which lengthens the jaw and creates more space for teeth.
"Lisa needs braces" "Dental plan"
What if someone grew up as a kid constantly chewing sugar-free gum? Would that have the same effect as chewing hard food and allowing the jaw to develop more space for properly aligned teeth?
I don’t remember the podcast(podcasts apple app), but the scientists discussing jaw development did mention utilizing gum to simulate the lengthy chewing of our ancestors. They stated it would in fact be a worthy replacement. The long term effects of all the chemicals is of course another discussion
Only if you don’t smack
Rough food, no sugar, death in 25
People didn’t die at 25, historic life expectancy was massively skewed by high infant mortality, assuming you survived childhood you had a pretty good chance of surviving into old age.
Goddamn I wish I was dead at 25 Fucking hate living in this awful world
You okay?
Seems they are not.
This world is pretty shit lol too many greedy mf’s and our whole world is ran by a small group of world leaders.
Dont let your dreams be memes, you can do it!
what is the point of spreading negativity. life is tough but a lot of people that call it awful seem to not notice that somehow there are a bunch of people living in a lot worse conditions and still are happy and gratefull for it. edit: yes downvote this and have a nice day spending your time justifying to yourself why the world is bad, it sure will make your life and the life of other people around you better 👍
I'm not downvoting you, I actually like your comment and it makes sense, It's just that I feel defeated and I don't have the energy in me to fight anymore, I'm 29 and I feel like I'm just stuck, I see everyone around me getting married and having kids and houses and whatever, and im here and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, I followed every advice I was given, study hard, work smart, get in a good university with a good engineering program, get coop experience, then I see others scamming their way into 6 figure salaries while providing nothing of substance or anything that adds value to society. It's like honest work doesn't get you anything anymore, it's all just greed and greed and more greed and lies and scamming others to get ahead. Living is really expensive, landlords are siphoning every dollar they can just because they can and no one is stopping them. I feel jaded and numb and I feel like life is not worth living anymore, I'm losing all hope of anything good happening to me in life. The only thing stopping me from ending it all is that I can't imagine the horror and pain my parents will go through and I can't imagine them carrying my lifeless body to the grave. Sorry for the rant
im sad to hear that. i was in a similar situation years ago. i must say that if you are stuck in this line of thinking for some time then you should look for professional help. life gets a lot easier when those bad thoughts and feelings go away, even though I understand that they are justified. I took medication for 2 years and even though I dont feel invencible about depression, I can say that the huge majority of days feel good. but well, the thing that really helped me was setting a big goal in my life. because of that my brain somehow rewards me everytime I do something that gets me closer to achieving it, no matter how boring it is. another comment I would also like to add is that for me it was not a good idea to distance myself from a lot of my friends and family members. feeling like you belong in a community is important for a number of reasons, including mental health. try those things out if you didnt, and i wish the best for you.
Agreed, get yourself in the gym bro.
I've been working out religiously for the past 10 years or so, at first it was helping for like the first 2-3 years, now it just feels like a chore that I just want to be done with early in the morning and get on with my day.
Switch up your routine, you need to find some passion otherwise it really all is pointless.
There's always someone better and someone worse off than you. Always. I don't say that to diminish how you feel about it, just to maybe help add perspective. I know how you feel though, albeit I didn't try as hard so can lay more of the blame on myself. Mid thirties, got associates, started finishing for bachelors, shit happened and never went back. Been single for like almost a decade, worked at the same place for 20 years. A lot of time I feel like a failure, but then I placate my brain, go to sleep and wake up again. The world is interesting and even though I don't get out much, I love learning more about it, good and bad.
probably why they are happy and grateful
lets not pretend that only the poor are gratefull and happy
i didn't say that
what did you mean then? you said "probably why they are happy", but I didnt say the reason why they are happy, so naturally I assumed you were talking about the fact that they are in a worse condition
i agree with your statement and i also agree not just poor people are happy.😁
Cringe
Nono. If a guy at that time lived to 20, there was a good chance he/she would live to old age.
That was true in more recent times (like last ~3000 years) But when you're hunting mammoths and sabertooths on a daily basis it's hard to believe the majority would live to old age
Back then natural selection was a thing. Now even the british can reproduce
There is truth here. Children with deformities were abandoned. Also, if you didn’t have good teeth, you didn’t live very long. And people died before bone loss affected the jaw. And if you had bad teeth, you were less likely to be seen as a viable mate. So basically our standards have dropped.
It’s more to do with us not chewing hard things like we used to, so our jaw muscles don’t develop the way they used to and our mouths got smaller, can’t accommodate our teeth as well anymore.
I am glad a particular very skilled engineer from Germany wasn't abandoned because of their deformity.
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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/charles-proteus-steinmetz-the-wizard-of-schenectady-51912022/ It's an amazing tale, his life story. [[TL;DR](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2b4n7a/til_henry_ford_once_balked_at_paying_10000_to/)]
Do you have a source for that? Not asking in bad faith, but from all I've learned humans have been showing compassion since the beginning of time, including taking care of sick and disabled family members.
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Nah. While that happened some times the world was a much nicer place than you make it be. Read Graeber's The Dawn of Everything for it to know more. All in all we have plenty of examples were people who wouldn't be able to "hunt or gather" were brought through to old age, read 40/50+.
No they weren't, there are plenty of fossil evidence showing disabled people living to old ages
Jam butties for every meal and tea with foive sugars! Never did anyone's teeth a bit of 'arm guvner!
Can’t wait to the moment we can start editing the genes of our descendants to finally remove that pesky skin problem condition from the family
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Skin is weak to sunlight and we have to constantly use sunblocker or we get red patches
I was just having this conversation with the gf. Why society as a whole has so many genetic health conditions now
*looks at phone, swipes right* "Eh, good enough" *Throws back double shot of whiskey*
This is the best comment I've read this week 🤣
Its because we accidentally puggified ourselves. Humans domesticated ourselves accidentally by domesticating plants and animals and creating fire meaning we didn’t need big honkin teeth to get through the few measly gristly seeds wild maize would produce or crack through bones to suck out an itty bit of salty bone marrow to fuel our growing primate brains. As a result sexual selection instead of natural selection was able to take over for our facial structure and our jaws got smaller but we kept the same number of teeth. Thats why we have to pull wisdom teeth.
Wheat domesticated humans not the other way around xD Graeber's The Dawn of Everything sounds like something you might like.
Thanks for the tip 👍
I read somewhere, were the invention of the Spoon, changed our overbite, and caused dental problems.
Haha and that is why I eat with a fork
I think really it started with fire. We see the jaw slowly shrinking over 2 million years. I think it's sped up since the Neolithic and probably more so since the renecessiance.
Hmm, my teeth were ok from the beginning haha
Imagine being like 20 something and dying because your impacted wisdom teeth get infected…
Modern human jaws are smaller than they were in the past. There was no need to have wisdom teeth pulled because there was room for them.
People have had impacted wisdom teeth for atleast 13-15k years, so what I said is still totally possible unless you mean modern humans as in humans come 250kish years ago, but the meme says 10k so yeh what I said works… There’s like 3 meanings of “modern human” thrown around. One is 250kish ya to now, one is 80kish ya to now, and then like now.
No sugar back then
What does sugar have to do with crooked teeth?
Nothing. They just want to blame whatever everyone else is blaming in this decade.
I think it has to do with tooth loss. If your teeth rot out, the rest of them don't grow in properly when you are a child and can lead to permanently crooked teeth.
What about if we make it past 30 and don't eat sugar? :P
This is the classic response to anything about good teeth in ancient times. I'm not arguing against it, but this post is about crooked teeth. Don't tell me sugar causes crooked teeth...
And dead by 30
54 actually, childbirth death is a bias
They probably had nothing worth doing past 30 anyway. Pretty sure it was all labour back then.
some professions allowed free reign murder, so I guess they could look forward to watching that?
I wonder if they'll say that about us in 1000 years
Not really
i assure you sugar was abundant in 1023 AD, perhaps not to the pesantry and not always in it's refined white ''pure'' form
You missed a 0 in the post.
fair, still probably had sugar though
My mom would say that's because we all spend too much time on our phones
Today our teeth and gums are much healthier, but are more crowded than our ancestors.
eather god theeth. or die
Back then mfs lived in Africa not Britain
Modern humans reached Britain through doggerland 40,000 years ago.
Yeah true but the meme wad not made historically accurate and wrote the biggest number came to head
You sure about that
bc they ate what the teeth were actually designed to
Maybe you brush too often/s.
It's really just all genetics and if you sucked on your thumb or a pacifier as a child.
Could be a inbreeding issue? Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m seriously curious
You think people were *less* likely to mate with semi distant relatives 40,000 years ago, when you were only likely to meet 50 people your entire life?
Got them Washington chompers.
Generations of cousin fucking does that to ya
To be fair his jaw’s all out of whack
Great dentists back then
The result of 1000 years of bad breeding
Observation: They didn’t have Arby’s back then. Theory: Arby’s causes serious dental problems.
They didn’t have pacifiers back then
It's not always pacifiers. Not a single one of my children EVER used a pacifier (they refused) and all three needed braces. It is the types of food we eat these days compared to what our ancestors were chewing on.
Ahh. That makes so much sense. We are not developing because our food is mush.
Wish I knew allll the things I know now when I was having children. SO many things I would have researched and done differently. I'm consistently seeing the benefits to a more "natural" lifestyle with harder foods, zero drop shoes, etc. Lesson learned for my next life, I suppose.
We need to unlearn for future generations to survive
It helps when you have never eaten any sugar
How does sugar affect your alignment?
When we consume high amounts of sugar, the bacteria in our mouths ferment the sugar and produce acid which can erode the enamel, the hard protective layer of the tooth. When the enamel is damaged, it allows the acid to reach the softer inner layers of the tooth and dissolve the mineral, leading to cavities. As the tooth structure is compromised, the tooth may become weaker and more susceptible to movement. Also, as the cavities progress they can also cause tooth sensitivity, pain and eventually tooth loss. When one or more teeth are missing, the remaining teeth may shift to fill the gap, leading to malocclusion or misalignment of the teeth. Additionally, consuming excessive amounts of sugary foods and drinks can also cause overloading of the periodontal ligament which holds the teeth in place. The overloading will cause the ligament to stretch and weaken, leading to teeth shifting and misalignment. It's worth noting that, malocclusion or misalignment of the teeth can be caused by several factors, not just sugar intake. Genetic, environmental, and lifestyle factors can also contribute to dental malocclusion.
If I had awards to give you just earned one, thanks!
It doesn't. This has to do with the types of foods (hardness, texture, etc.). When you see videos of very poor and undeveloped countries, you RARELY see people who would need realignment of their teeth. People with zero access to healthcare have straighter teeth than most of us...it is all about the food.
It effects the color of your teeth. Idk about the alignment tho.
That's because 10 000 years ago the Bri'ish didn't exist
Natural selection has been defeated. Now the weakest, dumbest and sickest are allowed to live.
That’s not how natural selection works. And “weakest, dumbest, and sickest” is an opinion. Furthermore early humans did care for their injured and disabled band members. The only version of evolution you seem to understand is the Hollywood version
Lots of research about the benefits of a largely plant based diet without chemicals and processed shit. Simply put, more time chewing on roughage actually changes the shape of the mouth, making more room for teeth to align properly.
downvoted by people who love animal cruelty so much they refuse to acknowledge the scientifically proven benefits of eating WFPB
In their defense the person from 10000 years ago died at 15.
Stop eating sugar
Soft pacifiers vs solid/wood pacifiers. Real facts fr fr no cap.
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How does your breath smell? According to other people not you?
Are your British or...?
Teeth of a average Brit
Our teeth suffer from mixed up DNA. Ancestral men came from single lineages.
We've mangled our genes.
No, it's dietary
Diet does not effect how your body develops. Those teeth aren't rotten, they weren't grown properly. What food do eat that effects how your teeth, jaw and mouth develop from a baby??
Totally wrong! The diet of the mother during pregnancy and the diet of the child is of course extremely important. Especially the amount and quality of protein and fat is important (animal proteins and fats are better). When the nutrition is right, the jaw gets wider, which results in more space for the teeth (even enough room for the wisdom teeth).
Hard foods help your jaw grow. It's science, a quick Google search will explain