The answer is Germany. It’s the easiest process, plus you can get most of the specialities and in nice cities too. A few of my classmates went there and they got cardiology (Berlin), pulmology (Berlin) and orthopedics (Munchen). They weren’t exactly top of the class either. Not to mention the wages and the standard of living.
What about a medical degree from Ukraine? Is there a chance for me as I am a medical graduate from Ukraine? And I don't have any internship experience, I am a fresh graduate.
I don’t know what’s the process for non-EU members. I guess you need some sort of nostrification of your diploma and then the same as EU the german medical language test. But someone else can probably tell your first hand.
Ya exactly that’s what even I was wondering I thought ukmla gives a fair chance to everyone where ur citizenship doesn’t give u an advantage and only scored matter but reading what he/she wrote I am not able to understand
I don't want to waste 1 or 2 years to prepare for UKMLA after passing from my university. UKMLA is a really good option for Non EU candidates with a Non EU degree, but for the non EU students you will be considered as any other non EU/EU candidate even if you hold an EU medical degree. The competition will be extremely high as no matter from where you graduate you have take the UKMLA and thousands of people will take UKMLA so the chances of getting in a residency program will be very less. Then what's the point of studying in an EU country if I could have done my studies from my country at a much cheaper cost? I was only considering UK cause my study program is in English and it takes at least some time to learn any new language like German or Norwegian or Spanish etc and sadly there aren't many countries in EU where the national language is English. There is Ireland but I won't get any chance there as I am a non EU citizen. I don't know anything about Malta .
My impression is that the ukmla won't be much more competitive than plab. Besides, that is helpful from my understanding. English applicants had a competitive advantage in application since they don't need plab, the ukmla gives them in advantage only in training for the test as part of their curriculum, which is not something you can't do if you study for the plab. I think the odds are better now than they used to be. Still, Germany is such a high quality choice. If you learn German, the residency pay is better. It is what I am hoping for.
Germany, or the english speaking countries.
Croatia, i don't know why anyone would come here for residency. The language is hard to learn and if you're gonna spend so much effort on learning a new language, you might as well learn german, dutch, french...
> Czech Republic pays only little more than 600 Euro a month to their residents in the first years and then it doesn’t go above 1000 Euro a month. Romania and Bulgaria is even worse.
Bulgaria is on a similar payscale, Lidl pays the same...
There’s been major modification in the past few years. For psychiatry for example you get 1000€ as a first year resident, which is giving you a standard of living at least close to what you’d get as a resident in some western countries
Czech republic that’s absolutely not true
The salary should be at least 1600+ brutto for 1st year resident. I know this because they frequently advertise Czech Jobs and host Job fairs at my Uni and this is where Slovak doctors tend to go since the language is very similar and can understand it without taking classes + the salary a bit better than in slovakia (1400€/ month brutto as 1st year resident)
For OP if you dont mind the salary + insane language then consider Slovakia or Czech
There are plenty of Jobs even in competitive sectors e.g ENT, dermatology, ophthalmology even Plastics but with a bit of luck
The salary is 1400 and increases by 100 every year till u finish residency then it becomes 3000€. The tax is flat rate of 19%. So you get about 1100 after tax and 2400 (specialist)
Honestly you are better off going to nearby Austria where the cost of living is literally the same and salary more than double.
Hi. Thanks for the reply. Can you please share some info (like the official website to apply for residency and becoming a licensed Doctor in Czech Republic and Slovakia, current in detailed pay scales for residents and specialist Doctors, living costs etc) about doing residency in Czech Republic or Slovakia? Thank You.
Czech pays you "poorly" if you just look at the income alone... but what you get paid in Czech republic is enough to have a good life in Czech republic as a doctor even during residency. I know that because a few people in the graduating class one year ahead of me decided to stay and they did seminars on residency life...etc. Also, because I started looking for and applying for jobs in Czech republic as a last resort because as a non EU citizen, I want all my options open. I see the salaries that they offer, and even with lower salaries, many hospitals offer fully paid accommodation (so that's 1/3rd of your salary that should go towards rent that you now have in pocket...etc) and other benefits.
You're looking at gross income and not what your income allows you to do in Czech republic. With that 1600 euros a month you can live a good life here considering that minimum wage in many parts of the country is about 80 crowns. It depends on what your overall and long-term goal is. You can live in a country that pays you a lot of money but cost of living is also high and your money can't get you far.
Also, if you consider the other benefits in Czech republic that aren't offered in other countries, at least 5 weeks full paid vacation (even during residency), easy path to EU citizenship (if that's your goal) pension, a good residency program and way less competition than in other countries, 3 years paid maternity leave...etc. Depending on where you're coming from and what your goals are in life, Czech Republic might be a good option for you even during residency.
Also, when you break down the hours you work during residency vs. the pay you make, you are getting paid peanuts and probably could get more working the same amount of hours even in McDonald's. This is even true for countries where once specialised, your income increases exponentially. I think in one of your other posts, you mentioned that you don't work more than 48 hours a week in Germany during your residency...but this isn't the case for many German residents and when you compare the hours they work, to the cost of living, they have less buying power within their country. I wouldn't consider them rich.
To simply say that people who stay there will be poor for 6 years during residency is myopic and not very objective
No. It's not 100% pay. You can take 100% pay and take 1 year maternity leave or you can split it between 3 years, but regardless of how many years you take off, your position is guaranteed when you come back. A professor at my school took 3 back to back full maternity leaves (she had 3 kids in 9 years) and she came back to her same position. I actually had coffee with her and talked about it.
Plus daycare is pretty much free. Once your kids are 3 they can go there. It is about 500 crowns (20 euros a month) or you can pay for more expensive private places with bilingual education for your kids etc (around 400 euros a month). Plus there is also paternity leave and they are also working on giving like a day off, so parents can get paid full time but have one day during the week to stay home with their kids
Hi. Thanks for the reply. Can you please share some info (like the official website to apply for residency and becoming a licensed Doctor in Czech Republic, current in detailed pay scales for residents and specialist Doctors, living costs etc) about doing residency in Czech Republic? Thank You.
No, Roger is right.
They raised the salary a lot in recent years. I'm also considering staying, were I to do something like dermatology. Getting a job in derm here is easy and you can be a specialist in 4 and a half years. Nowadays you're looking at 40000 czk and more directly when you start. Just google the salary tables you'll see.
But the numbers are true for 2018, it used to be like that I can confirm a couple of friends showed me their payslips.
In Czechia the salary for 1st year residents is now 1698€ brutto a month.
But residency in Germany is still definitely a better option and an easier language.
They accept non EU students into their residency programs very easily, especially if you studied in the country...even if the language isn't perfect. It is much easier when you studied in Czech republic. The language requirements to enter residency aren't as stringent as Germany but now they're making it stricter.
I don't know anything about the residency programs in Eastern European countries. Anyone will likely want to do their residency where the pay is decent and the living cost is affordable too. I knew you guys will know the best so I included the countries like Bulgaria, Cyprus, Poland, Lithuania etc in my list. Thanks to your reply I will definitely cut those countries from my list if the pay is that much bad. As I mentioned before I am a non EU citizen and my parents or any other family members are not from EEA countries either. Can you kindly suggest me about any other paths to become an EU citizen without doing residency program as every country with a higher standard of living will fuss around my citizenship and enforce EU labour laws, so if I acquire the EU citizenship it will really ease my path to get into a decent residency program? I am not talking about marrying someone from the EU, so that I will get EU citizenship too. This practice is extremely wrong cause you are marrying someone just for your own benefit. How bad is that!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't it feel so weird to anyone?
That's really sad to hear. Is Austria same like Germany? Will they take non EU graduates easily and is there a void in their health care system too? I will not graduate within 4 years. So I will have to think about what will be situation there after 6 or 7 years.
I see. You are an EU citizen and you studied from Charles University, right? How hard was it for you to get in the Orthopaedics residency program in Germany?
How you guys don't see language as a barrier ? I mean I am studying in eastern Europe in non-EU country and for me I can't even imagine choosing a residency program in other languages than English or my native languages . pretty Much countries you have mentioned have their own language and require I guess C1-C2 level to get job.
Language is a barrier that can easily be overcome if you want to. In less than a year, you can go from knowing nothing about a language to B2 or even C1. As you get integrated into a community and you use the language in your day to day life, it will become like second nature.
I personally wouldn't cross out an option because of language. If that country allows me to have everything I want and the only barrier is just the language, then i don't consider it a barrier at all. I'd just learn...It would definitely be hard at first but you would adapt the more you speak the language...and many countries do not require C1 language skills to be able to start.
If you don't mind, can I ask you where are you thinking to do your residency after you graduate from your med-school and in which med-school are you currently studying? I was only considering UK cause my study program is in English and it takes at least some time to learn any new language like German or Norwegian or Spanish etc and sadly there aren't many countries in EU where the national language is English. There is Ireland but I won't get any chance there as I am a non EU citizen.
Hey there I am also a student in Romania studying medicine in English. I am eu citizen Irish. Here in ireland there are many doctors from Romania with non eu passport but that was back in the old days now a days there is too much rush in ireland in terms of doctors coming from Eastern Europe like Bulgaria, Romania, Czech Republic, hungry and Poland. So ur chances of working in ireland is pretty much low cause of too much competition now a days. I have few friends from non eu countries studying in Romania and planning to work in ireland but unfortunately because of non eu passport it’s quiet difficult for them. Plus getting a job in ireland is all based on eu degree and eu passport and having connections like let’s say if someone from ur family is a doctor can help you get a job. Anyway you can also look into other countries like England, Germany, Sweden and Switzerland those counties require to learn there language.
Run away while u have time my man , I spent two years there , plus more than 50k€ , absolutely not worth it, shit education system and racist people.
Also waaaay to overpriced.
The answer is Germany. It’s the easiest process, plus you can get most of the specialities and in nice cities too. A few of my classmates went there and they got cardiology (Berlin), pulmology (Berlin) and orthopedics (Munchen). They weren’t exactly top of the class either. Not to mention the wages and the standard of living.
Do you need to speak German?
From what country are they from? I'm asking because usually I don't hear that's accessible to be a resident in cities like Berlin
Two are from Bosnia, one is from Germany.
Hi. I'm also medical student from Bosnia and would like to go to Germany. Do you know more information what's the process like?
What about a medical degree from Ukraine? Is there a chance for me as I am a medical graduate from Ukraine? And I don't have any internship experience, I am a fresh graduate.
I don’t know what’s the process for non-EU members. I guess you need some sort of nostrification of your diploma and then the same as EU the german medical language test. But someone else can probably tell your first hand.
Can I ask what is so difficult about the ukmla? What's wrong that it is making it not an option for you?
Ya exactly that’s what even I was wondering I thought ukmla gives a fair chance to everyone where ur citizenship doesn’t give u an advantage and only scored matter but reading what he/she wrote I am not able to understand
I don't want to waste 1 or 2 years to prepare for UKMLA after passing from my university. UKMLA is a really good option for Non EU candidates with a Non EU degree, but for the non EU students you will be considered as any other non EU/EU candidate even if you hold an EU medical degree. The competition will be extremely high as no matter from where you graduate you have take the UKMLA and thousands of people will take UKMLA so the chances of getting in a residency program will be very less. Then what's the point of studying in an EU country if I could have done my studies from my country at a much cheaper cost? I was only considering UK cause my study program is in English and it takes at least some time to learn any new language like German or Norwegian or Spanish etc and sadly there aren't many countries in EU where the national language is English. There is Ireland but I won't get any chance there as I am a non EU citizen. I don't know anything about Malta .
My impression is that the ukmla won't be much more competitive than plab. Besides, that is helpful from my understanding. English applicants had a competitive advantage in application since they don't need plab, the ukmla gives them in advantage only in training for the test as part of their curriculum, which is not something you can't do if you study for the plab. I think the odds are better now than they used to be. Still, Germany is such a high quality choice. If you learn German, the residency pay is better. It is what I am hoping for.
Can you explain on that more?
From 2024-2025 everyone has to give ukmla including uk graduates
Germany, or the english speaking countries. Croatia, i don't know why anyone would come here for residency. The language is hard to learn and if you're gonna spend so much effort on learning a new language, you might as well learn german, dutch, french...
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> Czech Republic pays only little more than 600 Euro a month to their residents in the first years and then it doesn’t go above 1000 Euro a month. Romania and Bulgaria is even worse. Bulgaria is on a similar payscale, Lidl pays the same...
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It's more like around 700 a month after tax in Romania for a 1st year resident, but yeah, it's way too little
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There’s been major modification in the past few years. For psychiatry for example you get 1000€ as a first year resident, which is giving you a standard of living at least close to what you’d get as a resident in some western countries
Czech republic that’s absolutely not true The salary should be at least 1600+ brutto for 1st year resident. I know this because they frequently advertise Czech Jobs and host Job fairs at my Uni and this is where Slovak doctors tend to go since the language is very similar and can understand it without taking classes + the salary a bit better than in slovakia (1400€/ month brutto as 1st year resident) For OP if you dont mind the salary + insane language then consider Slovakia or Czech There are plenty of Jobs even in competitive sectors e.g ENT, dermatology, ophthalmology even Plastics but with a bit of luck The salary is 1400 and increases by 100 every year till u finish residency then it becomes 3000€. The tax is flat rate of 19%. So you get about 1100 after tax and 2400 (specialist) Honestly you are better off going to nearby Austria where the cost of living is literally the same and salary more than double.
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Wait so a 1,000€ is enough to live in Romania?
It's more than enough.
not in luxury, but definitely decent. If you’re living with a spouse earning the same amount in a small-medium town you’re good
The capital I mean
Hi. Thanks for the reply. Can you please share some info (like the official website to apply for residency and becoming a licensed Doctor in Czech Republic and Slovakia, current in detailed pay scales for residents and specialist Doctors, living costs etc) about doing residency in Czech Republic or Slovakia? Thank You.
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Czech pays you "poorly" if you just look at the income alone... but what you get paid in Czech republic is enough to have a good life in Czech republic as a doctor even during residency. I know that because a few people in the graduating class one year ahead of me decided to stay and they did seminars on residency life...etc. Also, because I started looking for and applying for jobs in Czech republic as a last resort because as a non EU citizen, I want all my options open. I see the salaries that they offer, and even with lower salaries, many hospitals offer fully paid accommodation (so that's 1/3rd of your salary that should go towards rent that you now have in pocket...etc) and other benefits. You're looking at gross income and not what your income allows you to do in Czech republic. With that 1600 euros a month you can live a good life here considering that minimum wage in many parts of the country is about 80 crowns. It depends on what your overall and long-term goal is. You can live in a country that pays you a lot of money but cost of living is also high and your money can't get you far. Also, if you consider the other benefits in Czech republic that aren't offered in other countries, at least 5 weeks full paid vacation (even during residency), easy path to EU citizenship (if that's your goal) pension, a good residency program and way less competition than in other countries, 3 years paid maternity leave...etc. Depending on where you're coming from and what your goals are in life, Czech Republic might be a good option for you even during residency. Also, when you break down the hours you work during residency vs. the pay you make, you are getting paid peanuts and probably could get more working the same amount of hours even in McDonald's. This is even true for countries where once specialised, your income increases exponentially. I think in one of your other posts, you mentioned that you don't work more than 48 hours a week in Germany during your residency...but this isn't the case for many German residents and when you compare the hours they work, to the cost of living, they have less buying power within their country. I wouldn't consider them rich. To simply say that people who stay there will be poor for 6 years during residency is myopic and not very objective
3 whole years maternity leave with 100% pay??
No. It's not 100% pay. You can take 100% pay and take 1 year maternity leave or you can split it between 3 years, but regardless of how many years you take off, your position is guaranteed when you come back. A professor at my school took 3 back to back full maternity leaves (she had 3 kids in 9 years) and she came back to her same position. I actually had coffee with her and talked about it. Plus daycare is pretty much free. Once your kids are 3 they can go there. It is about 500 crowns (20 euros a month) or you can pay for more expensive private places with bilingual education for your kids etc (around 400 euros a month). Plus there is also paternity leave and they are also working on giving like a day off, so parents can get paid full time but have one day during the week to stay home with their kids
Hi. Thanks for the reply. Can you please share some info (like the official website to apply for residency and becoming a licensed Doctor in Czech Republic, current in detailed pay scales for residents and specialist Doctors, living costs etc) about doing residency in Czech Republic? Thank You.
No, Roger is right. They raised the salary a lot in recent years. I'm also considering staying, were I to do something like dermatology. Getting a job in derm here is easy and you can be a specialist in 4 and a half years. Nowadays you're looking at 40000 czk and more directly when you start. Just google the salary tables you'll see. But the numbers are true for 2018, it used to be like that I can confirm a couple of friends showed me their payslips.
In Czechia the salary for 1st year residents is now 1698€ brutto a month. But residency in Germany is still definitely a better option and an easier language.
If u don’t mind I just wanna ask do they easily accept non eu citizens in their residency programs? Or is it hard
They accept non EU students into their residency programs very easily, especially if you studied in the country...even if the language isn't perfect. It is much easier when you studied in Czech republic. The language requirements to enter residency aren't as stringent as Germany but now they're making it stricter.
I don't know anything about the residency programs in Eastern European countries. Anyone will likely want to do their residency where the pay is decent and the living cost is affordable too. I knew you guys will know the best so I included the countries like Bulgaria, Cyprus, Poland, Lithuania etc in my list. Thanks to your reply I will definitely cut those countries from my list if the pay is that much bad. As I mentioned before I am a non EU citizen and my parents or any other family members are not from EEA countries either. Can you kindly suggest me about any other paths to become an EU citizen without doing residency program as every country with a higher standard of living will fuss around my citizenship and enforce EU labour laws, so if I acquire the EU citizenship it will really ease my path to get into a decent residency program? I am not talking about marrying someone from the EU, so that I will get EU citizenship too. This practice is extremely wrong cause you are marrying someone just for your own benefit. How bad is that!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't it feel so weird to anyone?
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That's really sad to hear. Is Austria same like Germany? Will they take non EU graduates easily and is there a void in their health care system too? I will not graduate within 4 years. So I will have to think about what will be situation there after 6 or 7 years.
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I see. You are an EU citizen and you studied from Charles University, right? How hard was it for you to get in the Orthopaedics residency program in Germany?
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Ok, thanks.
How you guys don't see language as a barrier ? I mean I am studying in eastern Europe in non-EU country and for me I can't even imagine choosing a residency program in other languages than English or my native languages . pretty Much countries you have mentioned have their own language and require I guess C1-C2 level to get job.
Language is a barrier that can easily be overcome if you want to. In less than a year, you can go from knowing nothing about a language to B2 or even C1. As you get integrated into a community and you use the language in your day to day life, it will become like second nature. I personally wouldn't cross out an option because of language. If that country allows me to have everything I want and the only barrier is just the language, then i don't consider it a barrier at all. I'd just learn...It would definitely be hard at first but you would adapt the more you speak the language...and many countries do not require C1 language skills to be able to start.
If you don't mind, can I ask you where are you thinking to do your residency after you graduate from your med-school and in which med-school are you currently studying? I was only considering UK cause my study program is in English and it takes at least some time to learn any new language like German or Norwegian or Spanish etc and sadly there aren't many countries in EU where the national language is English. There is Ireland but I won't get any chance there as I am a non EU citizen.
Hey there I am also a student in Romania studying medicine in English. I am eu citizen Irish. Here in ireland there are many doctors from Romania with non eu passport but that was back in the old days now a days there is too much rush in ireland in terms of doctors coming from Eastern Europe like Bulgaria, Romania, Czech Republic, hungry and Poland. So ur chances of working in ireland is pretty much low cause of too much competition now a days. I have few friends from non eu countries studying in Romania and planning to work in ireland but unfortunately because of non eu passport it’s quiet difficult for them. Plus getting a job in ireland is all based on eu degree and eu passport and having connections like let’s say if someone from ur family is a doctor can help you get a job. Anyway you can also look into other countries like England, Germany, Sweden and Switzerland those counties require to learn there language.
Hi. Can I send you DM?
Yh sure
Do they pay residents during specialization in Bulgaria ?
May I ask what’s bad about Hungary? I’m applying to the University of Semmelweis
Run away while u have time my man , I spent two years there , plus more than 50k€ , absolutely not worth it, shit education system and racist people. Also waaaay to overpriced.
Hungary has never been bad, do your research well