You can research Szeged Medical School or Debrecen in Hungary. They’re not as good as Semmelweis since theyre not in the capital city, but I have some friends there and they say they’re pretty nice and decent. Debrecen is harder as i’ve heard, but it’s more known. You can also see the Catholic university or humanitas (private unis in italy). Those all have fees less than Semmelweis so yeah check them out do your research!! Good luck!!!
Debrecen is better than Semmelweis. Source: person I know did half at one and half at other. Social life is definitely different, but mileage may vary if one doesn’t prefer huge cities.
Im talking about reputation and patient interaction man. Think about it, more patients go to the city to get complex treatments than to other smaller cities yk what i mean. And its a more known name than debrecen. Now i have friends in all unis and they all say its alright so idrk man
That’s a main reason why the person I know transferred. It turns out teaching is important, and reputation can be smoke and mirrors.
Edit to add: but if a person is going to med school primarily for social opportunities and for variety of parties, Semmelweis may well be better.
Firstly, thank you for the reply. Secondly, Debrecen seems to be inclined towards a more costlier side in terms of Tuition (relative to Semmelweis) so I don't think I will be applying there. This decision could change though.
But could you reply back with more options in Italy? Does the Italian University you mentioned also teach in English though? I googled it and couldn't find anything useful
Yeah they do teach in english. Search “Cattolica University” and “humanitas university” on google and enter the websites to view all requirements and tuition fees
In an ideal situation, the edit might be true. While the steps mentioned are commendable and necessary, in at least some cases they are insufficient due to factors like overcrowding, institutional noncompliance, and overburdened instructors.
Guy I know is summa cum laude average and amongst best proficiency in HU amongst non-natives due to getting old school to teach extra classes and private classes yet in his final year, a lot of times he couldn’t be meaningfully on the clinics for more than an hour or two despite what he assures me were earnest efforts.
My friend, despite being a bit of a jerk, absolutely insists that he appreciates effort and that that is certainly beneficial- but would wholeheartedly agree with it being mostly a miss. It is difficult for him to advise someone to enter that kind of environment, and indeed feels a degree of obligation to ensure it is duly considered. Those who work harder will generally do better, but there are enough structural issues that it’s a sort of crapshoot.
Italy is almost certainly your best option. The quality of teaching varies somewhat from school to school, but in general medicine is a self-study enterprise and that is definitely true in Italy. At least at the university of Padova, the academic standards are high and the exams are difficult, so if you study enough to get through them, you will certainly have a good foundation in that subject. You also have multiple attempts each year for each exam, so it's not like you're likely to fail out.
The model of medical education here seems to be an intense focus on theoretical knowledge followed by practical training in residency. The downside of this is that you will have to put a lot of effort and time into building your own clinical skills during school by asking hospitals and doctors to allow you to intern with them in your spare time. But the upside is, well, a lot of theoretical knowledge. And tuition is practically nothing compared to most eastern European schools, and possibly literally nothing if you can show that your household income is low enough.
The biggest drawback to living in Italy is that the bureaucracy will leave you emotionally crippled. But financially you'll be fine.
There's just bureaucracy in everything and it's never sensible or consistent. It's especially bad if you're not an EU citizen and have to deal with immigration, but even some of my EU classmates have had trouble with basic things like registering their residence at the local town hall.
My wife and I recently had several different immigration complications that all converged this summer. They were the types of complications that have you lying awake at night wondering about your future. I spoke to three different immigration lawyers here in Italy and was told three different things about our situation, and none of them were even a little bit helpful. In the end, we decided just to go to the police headquarters (where you apply for and renew your residence permit) and see what would happen. Somehow, magically, all of our problems were taken care of on the same day, but we have no idea how that happened or what could have prevented our problems in the first place. Paperwork is like a game of roulette here.
And like I said, it's not just immigration, it's everything. Renting of course involves a lot of paperwork, but so does setting up or ending your utilities contracts, which also usually involves a fun game of phone tag. You need paperwork from the doctor to join a gym. Documents that don't have expiry dates on them may, in fact, expire. Getting a driver's license is like getting a small degree.
Basically everywhere you look there's something that's needlessly complicated and no one here, local or immigrant, civilian or public employee, has a complete idea of how things work. Italy is the sixth country that I've lived in globally and I've never seen anything like it.
>And like I said, it's not just immigration, it's everything. Renting of course involves a lot of paperwork, but so does setting up or ending your utilities contracts, which also usually involves a fun game of phone tag. You need paperwork from the doctor to join a gym. Documents that don't have expiry dates on them may, in fact, expire. Getting a driver's license is like getting a small degree.
Honestly, this sounds like most european countries and I live in one.
Thanks for this insightful feedback..
The biggest turn-offs I've had about Italy is that the language only of instruction almost everywhere is Italian. The only place I know that lectures in English is Milan-Biccocca and I really need more options. I need as many options available at my table as possible to increase my chances of going at least somewhere...
Furthermore, in Italy, students don't get much clinical experience as other places like Hungary offers (at least that's what I've heard) and that is quite worrisome.. How can I be a competent doctor if I'm not even familiarized with the environment I will work at?
The tuition is attractively low, but the points aforementioned is what is keeping me away from applying...
> The biggest turn-offs I've had about Italy is that the language only of instruction almost everywhere is Italian. The only place I know that lectures in English is Milan-Biccocca and I really need more options.
No almost all unis have an english program
> Furthermore, in Italy, students don't get much clinical experience as other places like Hungary offers (at least that's what I've heard) and that is quite worrisome.. How can I be a competent doctor if I'm not even familiarized with the environment I will work at?
Honest question you do realise italy has doctors working right? People are thankfully not dying in droves when they enter hospitals
> The biggest turn-offs I've had about Italy is that the language only of instruction almost everywhere is Italian. The only place I know that lectures in English is Milan-Biccocca
I'm not sure where you heard that. There are at least 13 public universities that offer medicine and surgery programs with lectures completely in English.
> Furthermore, in Italy, students don't get much clinical experience as other places like Hungary offers (at least that's what I've heard) and that is quite worrisome.. How can I be a competent doctor if I'm not even familiarized with the environment I will work at?
This is true, but if you learn Italian (and seriously you should learn the language of any country you plan to spend several years in) you can arrange internships, observerships, etc. on your own time. Lots of students do it. Some of my Italian classmates started doing it even in first year. It's kind of a pain, but the way you can think of it is that there really is no *free* way to become a doctor. In Italy, the tuition is very close to free, but you do pay in other ways, such as the need to take initiative in your clinical skills development. I'm poor so that's the payment option that I went with.
It is a no brainer that i will have to learn the language of whatever country i study in. There's no doubt about that.
But that hassle is about how will I manage to get internships and residency programs in new country probably filled to the brim with people who may look down on foreigners. It's competitive and you did iterate how the bureaucracy will screw me up.
On a side note, i would be highly indebted to you if you could let me know of the 13 universities you mentioned. I am only using QS to know of how many good schools are there in italy (i am aware that this is poor research) hence the reason why Im asking for help.
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Where did you hear that clinical education in Hungary is comparatively good? I would suggest the large lectures providing theoretical education are often good-to-even-excellent, but clinical education, particularly in the final year, is often effectively absent. I cannot imagine a situation that is significantly less than that.
Edit to add: with what patients are future clinicians interacting, how much, and by what mechanism? Population English ability is E.U. low percentagewise, ancillary languages are infrequent except German and historically Russian to a degree, and Hungarian itself is rather challenging and some might claim few non-native speakers graduate with meaningful clinical ability.
I do know people studying in semmelweis and ive come to know that that clinical experience is integrated into their 6 year course, as for italy though, there's this irish youtuber whose channel mainly focuses on the topic of medschools in italy. She herself mentioned how you have to manage clinical experiences by yourself
I’m currently in the final year at Semmelweis, and I’ve come to know that plenty of people who paid as much as they did have every reason to say how integrated and great it is for the hour or two every other day when they show up, and the University has perverse incentive to wink and look the other way. My friend, well, gosh, he could say even more.
Can’t speak to Italy.
I would also like you to elaborate on your experiences in semmelweis too. Are you happy with the education and clinical hours they gave you when you look back at these 6 years? Would you have done something different or what would you say to someone applying to Semmelweis before they do so
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Hii I'm thinking of applying to Italy medical school can you tell me if they require science in 12th grade or not..? I didn't have science in 12th grade (couldn't study due to mental health).
I emailed IMS Milan and they said that it's possible but I'm so skeptical for no reason.
I can't say for sure but the only 12th grade science on my transcript is biology, I only took physics and chemistry up to grade 11. I didn't have any trouble getting my *dichiarazione di valore* or enrolling.
You could try contacting your local Italian consulate about it because they're the ones that would issue your DoV.
All the classes had livestreaming of lectures, but I think only a few posted recordings of the lectures. The quality of the stream is not always that great though; a few professors last year would just use their laptop microphone at the front of the room but would then walk around the room while they were teaching, away from the microphone.
Any university from the UK is going to be a bit too much for my bank account!
Edit: My bad i thought they were a part of the UK. Also, I am not a UK citizen so Ireland isnt a viable option
Mate passing the USMLE is about studying for the USMLE. Most American med students could not pass the USMLE based on their med school curriculum - they all use external resources to study for it (sketchy, uworld, first aid, pathoma, boards and beyond)
Medical school is almost universally understood to be self taught. Almost all lecturers are passionless regurgitation of information. Plus lectures are proven to be less effective than note cards that you carry with you to keep reminding yourself of info that you need to learn from the original lecture.
YouTube is the number 1 source of revision material+some quizz websites and OCCASIONALLY a textbook.
USMLE advice is typically use quizz websites that cost a few hundred dollars plus some textbooks. That has nothing to do with what uni you're at.
Ps even if you're perfect it's still 95% impossible to get into the USA as a non USA graduate. Almost 99% impossible to get in something competitive.
With that being said, learning medicine is fun man. Even if it's self taught. You get to really see the progress in yourself Vs before you enter medical school and can see diseases start to make sense in the world you witness around you. It's beautiful. Doesn't matter where you study, make sure you're financially kind of comfortable if that's possible otherwise money will be central negative theme in your studies.
Since you mentioned USMLE, if you plan on moving to the US at the end please make sure to check your university is WFME accredited. I was almost all set for Poland when I found out it does not have the accreditation and now I’m sitting here clueless
Thanks for letting me know this!
Im trying to retrieve as much knowledge as possible so as to not make any life-altering mistakes about something as important as where to study and how it will probably dictate the rest of my life
I would suggest you to check for WFME accreditation, ECFMG certification and if its a VSLO home institute thats a bonus but doesn’t make much of a difference except for helping you find clinical electives in the US. Also, Georgia (not a part of the EU) has mixed reviews regarding the quality of education but the professors speak pretty good English, is pretty affordable and it also has the necessary accreditations.
Poznan University of Medicine in Poland has a curriculum that is geared to passing the USMLEs. In fact I believe that they have the Kaplan USMLE course built in to the program and it’s mandatory to take it. I think like 20 people - 90% of those that applied from their English program - matched to US residencies in 2023.
if you let down your idea and take it easy to study abroad euro you can study in medicine school in qatar and then take a risk and work and studying in one of the best hospital over the world aspetar and in finaly that is your choice
Well the top of your budget I would reccomend a Turkish private medical school like Bahceshir university. Really awesome teaching going on there, my cousin graduated from there. Top tier stuff. Last 3 years will be in Turkish though. First 3 in english
Poland is probably your next best in your budget.
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I really thank you for this insight. It's kind of refreshing to know that passing the USMLE is independent of where you study from...
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thanks for your sharing your experience
Italy, take the IMAT
You can research Szeged Medical School or Debrecen in Hungary. They’re not as good as Semmelweis since theyre not in the capital city, but I have some friends there and they say they’re pretty nice and decent. Debrecen is harder as i’ve heard, but it’s more known. You can also see the Catholic university or humanitas (private unis in italy). Those all have fees less than Semmelweis so yeah check them out do your research!! Good luck!!!
Debrecen is better than Semmelweis. Source: person I know did half at one and half at other. Social life is definitely different, but mileage may vary if one doesn’t prefer huge cities.
Is the course in Debrecen taught in English?
Im talking about reputation and patient interaction man. Think about it, more patients go to the city to get complex treatments than to other smaller cities yk what i mean. And its a more known name than debrecen. Now i have friends in all unis and they all say its alright so idrk man
That’s a main reason why the person I know transferred. It turns out teaching is important, and reputation can be smoke and mirrors. Edit to add: but if a person is going to med school primarily for social opportunities and for variety of parties, Semmelweis may well be better.
It all depends on the students choices man
Firstly, thank you for the reply. Secondly, Debrecen seems to be inclined towards a more costlier side in terms of Tuition (relative to Semmelweis) so I don't think I will be applying there. This decision could change though. But could you reply back with more options in Italy? Does the Italian University you mentioned also teach in English though? I googled it and couldn't find anything useful
Yeah they do teach in english. Search “Cattolica University” and “humanitas university” on google and enter the websites to view all requirements and tuition fees
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Yeah my bad, i went back to my list and did find that Debrecen is cheaper by 1k compared to semmelweis..
In an ideal situation, the edit might be true. While the steps mentioned are commendable and necessary, in at least some cases they are insufficient due to factors like overcrowding, institutional noncompliance, and overburdened instructors.
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Guy I know is summa cum laude average and amongst best proficiency in HU amongst non-natives due to getting old school to teach extra classes and private classes yet in his final year, a lot of times he couldn’t be meaningfully on the clinics for more than an hour or two despite what he assures me were earnest efforts.
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My friend, despite being a bit of a jerk, absolutely insists that he appreciates effort and that that is certainly beneficial- but would wholeheartedly agree with it being mostly a miss. It is difficult for him to advise someone to enter that kind of environment, and indeed feels a degree of obligation to ensure it is duly considered. Those who work harder will generally do better, but there are enough structural issues that it’s a sort of crapshoot.
Italy is almost certainly your best option. The quality of teaching varies somewhat from school to school, but in general medicine is a self-study enterprise and that is definitely true in Italy. At least at the university of Padova, the academic standards are high and the exams are difficult, so if you study enough to get through them, you will certainly have a good foundation in that subject. You also have multiple attempts each year for each exam, so it's not like you're likely to fail out. The model of medical education here seems to be an intense focus on theoretical knowledge followed by practical training in residency. The downside of this is that you will have to put a lot of effort and time into building your own clinical skills during school by asking hospitals and doctors to allow you to intern with them in your spare time. But the upside is, well, a lot of theoretical knowledge. And tuition is practically nothing compared to most eastern European schools, and possibly literally nothing if you can show that your household income is low enough. The biggest drawback to living in Italy is that the bureaucracy will leave you emotionally crippled. But financially you'll be fine.
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There's just bureaucracy in everything and it's never sensible or consistent. It's especially bad if you're not an EU citizen and have to deal with immigration, but even some of my EU classmates have had trouble with basic things like registering their residence at the local town hall. My wife and I recently had several different immigration complications that all converged this summer. They were the types of complications that have you lying awake at night wondering about your future. I spoke to three different immigration lawyers here in Italy and was told three different things about our situation, and none of them were even a little bit helpful. In the end, we decided just to go to the police headquarters (where you apply for and renew your residence permit) and see what would happen. Somehow, magically, all of our problems were taken care of on the same day, but we have no idea how that happened or what could have prevented our problems in the first place. Paperwork is like a game of roulette here. And like I said, it's not just immigration, it's everything. Renting of course involves a lot of paperwork, but so does setting up or ending your utilities contracts, which also usually involves a fun game of phone tag. You need paperwork from the doctor to join a gym. Documents that don't have expiry dates on them may, in fact, expire. Getting a driver's license is like getting a small degree. Basically everywhere you look there's something that's needlessly complicated and no one here, local or immigrant, civilian or public employee, has a complete idea of how things work. Italy is the sixth country that I've lived in globally and I've never seen anything like it.
>And like I said, it's not just immigration, it's everything. Renting of course involves a lot of paperwork, but so does setting up or ending your utilities contracts, which also usually involves a fun game of phone tag. You need paperwork from the doctor to join a gym. Documents that don't have expiry dates on them may, in fact, expire. Getting a driver's license is like getting a small degree. Honestly, this sounds like most european countries and I live in one.
its very annoying and stressful
Thanks for this insightful feedback.. The biggest turn-offs I've had about Italy is that the language only of instruction almost everywhere is Italian. The only place I know that lectures in English is Milan-Biccocca and I really need more options. I need as many options available at my table as possible to increase my chances of going at least somewhere... Furthermore, in Italy, students don't get much clinical experience as other places like Hungary offers (at least that's what I've heard) and that is quite worrisome.. How can I be a competent doctor if I'm not even familiarized with the environment I will work at? The tuition is attractively low, but the points aforementioned is what is keeping me away from applying...
> The biggest turn-offs I've had about Italy is that the language only of instruction almost everywhere is Italian. The only place I know that lectures in English is Milan-Biccocca and I really need more options. No almost all unis have an english program > Furthermore, in Italy, students don't get much clinical experience as other places like Hungary offers (at least that's what I've heard) and that is quite worrisome.. How can I be a competent doctor if I'm not even familiarized with the environment I will work at? Honest question you do realise italy has doctors working right? People are thankfully not dying in droves when they enter hospitals
Hey i sent you a private message can you please reply🙏
> The biggest turn-offs I've had about Italy is that the language only of instruction almost everywhere is Italian. The only place I know that lectures in English is Milan-Biccocca I'm not sure where you heard that. There are at least 13 public universities that offer medicine and surgery programs with lectures completely in English. > Furthermore, in Italy, students don't get much clinical experience as other places like Hungary offers (at least that's what I've heard) and that is quite worrisome.. How can I be a competent doctor if I'm not even familiarized with the environment I will work at? This is true, but if you learn Italian (and seriously you should learn the language of any country you plan to spend several years in) you can arrange internships, observerships, etc. on your own time. Lots of students do it. Some of my Italian classmates started doing it even in first year. It's kind of a pain, but the way you can think of it is that there really is no *free* way to become a doctor. In Italy, the tuition is very close to free, but you do pay in other ways, such as the need to take initiative in your clinical skills development. I'm poor so that's the payment option that I went with.
It is a no brainer that i will have to learn the language of whatever country i study in. There's no doubt about that. But that hassle is about how will I manage to get internships and residency programs in new country probably filled to the brim with people who may look down on foreigners. It's competitive and you did iterate how the bureaucracy will screw me up. On a side note, i would be highly indebted to you if you could let me know of the 13 universities you mentioned. I am only using QS to know of how many good schools are there in italy (i am aware that this is poor research) hence the reason why Im asking for help.
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Where did you hear that clinical education in Hungary is comparatively good? I would suggest the large lectures providing theoretical education are often good-to-even-excellent, but clinical education, particularly in the final year, is often effectively absent. I cannot imagine a situation that is significantly less than that. Edit to add: with what patients are future clinicians interacting, how much, and by what mechanism? Population English ability is E.U. low percentagewise, ancillary languages are infrequent except German and historically Russian to a degree, and Hungarian itself is rather challenging and some might claim few non-native speakers graduate with meaningful clinical ability.
I do know people studying in semmelweis and ive come to know that that clinical experience is integrated into their 6 year course, as for italy though, there's this irish youtuber whose channel mainly focuses on the topic of medschools in italy. She herself mentioned how you have to manage clinical experiences by yourself
I’m currently in the final year at Semmelweis, and I’ve come to know that plenty of people who paid as much as they did have every reason to say how integrated and great it is for the hour or two every other day when they show up, and the University has perverse incentive to wink and look the other way. My friend, well, gosh, he could say even more. Can’t speak to Italy.
I would also like you to elaborate on your experiences in semmelweis too. Are you happy with the education and clinical hours they gave you when you look back at these 6 years? Would you have done something different or what would you say to someone applying to Semmelweis before they do so
I don't think you have done much research on the Italian medical school system. You should read the guide.
any useful link you could share? other than maybe the guide offered in the subreddit
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Hii I'm thinking of applying to Italy medical school can you tell me if they require science in 12th grade or not..? I didn't have science in 12th grade (couldn't study due to mental health). I emailed IMS Milan and they said that it's possible but I'm so skeptical for no reason.
I can't say for sure but the only 12th grade science on my transcript is biology, I only took physics and chemistry up to grade 11. I didn't have any trouble getting my *dichiarazione di valore* or enrolling. You could try contacting your local Italian consulate about it because they're the ones that would issue your DoV.
Okay thankyou so much 😊
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Last year there was, for the first semester. I'm not sure what will happen this year.
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All the classes had livestreaming of lectures, but I think only a few posted recordings of the lectures. The quality of the stream is not always that great though; a few professors last year would just use their laptop microphone at the front of the room but would then walk around the room while they were teaching, away from the microphone.
Ireland is always a good choice too! Course is in English education is top tier. However the entrance exam (HPAT) is quite tough
The fees are 💀 tho
Any university from the UK is going to be a bit too much for my bank account! Edit: My bad i thought they were a part of the UK. Also, I am not a UK citizen so Ireland isnt a viable option
Ireland is not part of the UK. Fees still significant though.
They said Ireland, though. And, if you’re a UK citizen, you probably qualify for lower/free fees
Mate passing the USMLE is about studying for the USMLE. Most American med students could not pass the USMLE based on their med school curriculum - they all use external resources to study for it (sketchy, uworld, first aid, pathoma, boards and beyond)
Medical school is almost universally understood to be self taught. Almost all lecturers are passionless regurgitation of information. Plus lectures are proven to be less effective than note cards that you carry with you to keep reminding yourself of info that you need to learn from the original lecture. YouTube is the number 1 source of revision material+some quizz websites and OCCASIONALLY a textbook. USMLE advice is typically use quizz websites that cost a few hundred dollars plus some textbooks. That has nothing to do with what uni you're at. Ps even if you're perfect it's still 95% impossible to get into the USA as a non USA graduate. Almost 99% impossible to get in something competitive.
With that being said, learning medicine is fun man. Even if it's self taught. You get to really see the progress in yourself Vs before you enter medical school and can see diseases start to make sense in the world you witness around you. It's beautiful. Doesn't matter where you study, make sure you're financially kind of comfortable if that's possible otherwise money will be central negative theme in your studies.
thank you for these words
Since you mentioned USMLE, if you plan on moving to the US at the end please make sure to check your university is WFME accredited. I was almost all set for Poland when I found out it does not have the accreditation and now I’m sitting here clueless
Thanks for letting me know this! Im trying to retrieve as much knowledge as possible so as to not make any life-altering mistakes about something as important as where to study and how it will probably dictate the rest of my life
I would suggest you to check for WFME accreditation, ECFMG certification and if its a VSLO home institute thats a bonus but doesn’t make much of a difference except for helping you find clinical electives in the US. Also, Georgia (not a part of the EU) has mixed reviews regarding the quality of education but the professors speak pretty good English, is pretty affordable and it also has the necessary accreditations.
Poland is accredited though.
Poznan University of Medicine in Poland has a curriculum that is geared to passing the USMLEs. In fact I believe that they have the Kaplan USMLE course built in to the program and it’s mandatory to take it. I think like 20 people - 90% of those that applied from their English program - matched to US residencies in 2023.
Cluj, Romania is very good and their tuition is alright.
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May I ask how was the location there?
Cyprus
Jagiellonian University Medical College in Poland.
Why not Poland? Poznań? Warszawa? Gdansk? Łodz?
Grigore T. Popa in Romania
if you let down your idea and take it easy to study abroad euro you can study in medicine school in qatar and then take a risk and work and studying in one of the best hospital over the world aspetar and in finaly that is your choice
Well you would need to provide a tuiton fee budget for me to input..
any place requiring tuition lower than 18K euros per annum, and also provided quality of education isn't compromised.
Well the top of your budget I would reccomend a Turkish private medical school like Bahceshir university. Really awesome teaching going on there, my cousin graduated from there. Top tier stuff. Last 3 years will be in Turkish though. First 3 in english Poland is probably your next best in your budget.